Starter issues

[Scowally]

So I just recently purchased a Cobra (mkIII built in '08) about 2 weeks ago and having a blast I might add (wink) but here's the problem I'm dealing with

I am having starter issues. Just last week when I started the car it was grinding the first 2 attempts when I tried to start the car. It finally started so "Hmmm, that was interesting...". Never had this issue before during test drives and never mentioned by seller.

Then yesterday I drove over to a friend's house to show him the car. Shut down the car in his driveway to chat for a while, then started it up (no problems) and took friend for a quick 10 min spin. Shut down car again for a few pics and then it wouldn't start. Awful grinding noise when I tried to start the car 4-5 times. Finally another guy came over and we pushed it down the street and I 'popped' it into 2nd gear (bypassing starter) and got the car started. Car ran fine but now I have concerns if I ever stop the car will I be able to get it started again. Before you ask who built the engine here are the details - 331 stroker engine was built by Anderson performance and they have a good reputation. Engine has just under 21k miles.

Any thoughts on what my problem might be...

[GoDadGo]

1. Inspect the starter to make sure that it isn't loose.
2. If it is loose, then tighten things up and try starting it.
3. If the starter is nice and tight, then pull it and check to see what the ring gear looks like and the starter gear as well.
4. If either are Boogered Up (Southern Term For Damaged) then it is likely an issue with starter gear engagement.
5. Consider replacing the starter if you are not able to effectively bench test the Bendix

Finally, don't ignore this issue because the actions taken now will likely save you bigger dollars down the road.

[alv69]

make sure you're starter gear is engaging the correct amount if not you may have to shim it.

[Svtfreak]

Yep the above.

There is a chance it's starting to die also. Heat kills the stock starters easily. In the mustang world, swapping to a small high torque starter is not uncommon especially when running headers. The stock one is just too big and is too close to he hot pipes. See what kind you have while checking the above stuff also.

[Mountain-Metalworks]

Finally, don't ignore this issue because the actions taken now will likely save you bigger dollars down the road.

GoDad offered great ideas but this is the MOST important one!!! Continuing to use try/use this starter has the pretty good chance of damaging the ring gear on the flywheel since it's not engaging properly. Damage it and the whole engine/transmission combo needs to come out to replace it. A new $100 starter is worth it considering you just bought a Roadster. :)

-TJ

[PeteH]

Consider a gear reduction starter if replacing, they draw way less amps when cranking.

[CraigS]

If your starter is the old style like this
http://www.cjponyparts.com/starter-oe-style-automatic-transmission-250-260-289-1965-1973-302-351-1968-1973/p/STR3124/?year=1969&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIpcq-ksnH1QIVAy5pCh1r3wjCEAQYASABEgLPLvD_BwE
the best upgrade is to replace it w/ one like this usually referred to as a mini-starter. See both in one pic here
http://www.mustangandfords.com/how-to/engine/mdmp-0811-pmgr-starter-upgrade/
If you do the upgrade be sure to rewire the firewall solenoid like here;
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4416/35607748264_19739e8e07_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/Wfx21d)mini-starterwiring (https://flic.kr/p/Wfx21d) by craig stuard (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152454123@N04/), on Flickr

[AC Bill]

Sounds like a tooth misalignment. As first suggested by GoDadGo, check to see if it's bolted on tight. If it was working fine, and suddenly started doing it, that would be my first guess.

I remember having to shim Chevy starters, but I don't recall anyone dealing with that on the newer Fords.

[cgundermann]

Yep the above.

There is a chance it's starting to die also. Heat kills the stock starters easily. In the mustang world, swapping to a small high torque starter is not uncommon especially when running headers. The stock one is just too big and is too close to he hot pipes. See what kind you have while checking the above stuff also.

Second SVTfreak, always changed to mini-starters in my 5.0 Stangs because of the header heat soak. CraigS's diagram for the Ford solenoid in conjunction with a mini-starter is invaluable.

Chris

[CraigS]

One other thought I just had. I sure don't remember the actual numbers but when I came across the info I was surprised. I believe there are two possible teeth counts on flywheels that could be used on an SBF. All I remember is there is only maybe 8 teeth difference out of 130??? or so and I wondered how Ford could be so stupid as to let that happen. Anyone know the details on this?

[boat737]

If your starter is the old style like this
http://www.cjponyparts.com/starter-oe-style-automatic-transmission-250-260-289-1965-1973-302-351-1968-1973/p/STR3124/?year=1969&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIpcq-ksnH1QIVAy5pCh1r3wjCEAQYASABEgLPLvD_BwE
the best upgrade is to replace it w/ one like this usually referred to as a mini-starter. See both in one pic here
http://www.mustangandfords.com/how-to/engine/mdmp-0811-pmgr-starter-upgrade/
If you do the upgrade be sure to rewire the firewall solenoid like here;
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4416/35607748264_19739e8e07_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/Wfx21d)mini-starterwiring (https://flic.kr/p/Wfx21d) by craig stuard (https://www.flickr.com/photos/152454123@N04/), on Flickr

The diagram is a bit small and hard to figure out. Is the firewall solenoid being used only to supply trigger power for the onboard starter solenoid? Not cranking power?

[Boydster]

The diagram is a bit small and hard to figure out. Is the firewall solenoid being used only to supply trigger power for the onboard starter solenoid? Not cranking power?

Correct. The solenoid on the mini starter has direct battery power available and as such, supplies crank power. The original solenoid is simply relaying trigger power.

[CraigS]

The diagram is a bit small and hard to figure out. Is the firewall solenoid being used only to supply trigger power for the onboard starter solenoid? Not cranking power?
Yes. that diagram is actually from an official Ford Tech Bulletin. It was written for people upgrading their Mustang. So the idea was to make minimal easy changes to the car. I couldn't quickly find the Tech Bulletin so I just posted the diagram which I have saved as a jpeg picture. As Boyd says, the firewall solenoid is now just an oversized starter relay. Another advantage applies equally to Mustangs and FFRs. Many times the battery lug on that solenoid is used as a convenient power source and has a couple of extra power wires on it for various accessories. Re-wiring per the diagram allows all that to stay the same.