Russ Thompson Turn Signal wiring

[Jdav]

I am wiring up the Russ Thompson Turn Signal and using the momentary stalk button to activate hi beam/low beam & Flash to pass with a Ron Francis harness.
I've looked through all of the diagrams provided and others I have found, but still unsure. Especially when it comes to what wires are feeding each relay.
Would appreciate confirmation from you guys that I am doing this right:

Feed:
Connect the RF gray TURN FLASHER FD wire to the Russ Thompson common larger Black wire

Left Turn:
Connect the RF green/yellow/green (LEFT FRONT TURN/LEFT REAR TURN/LEFT DASH IND LIGHT) bundle to the Russ Thompson Black-white wire

Right Turn:
Connect the RF blue/white/blue (RIGHT FRONT TURN/RIGHT REAR TURN/RIGHT DASH IND LIGHT) bundle to the Russ Thompson Black-green wire

http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii555/jdavuga18/Cobra/5EF85F23-C038-451B-8AAB-07C0EC4A97BD_zpsh0unrend.jpg

Flasher on/off toggle switch:
Connect the RF pink HAZARD FLASHER wire to one spade of the switch
Add diodes to each then join and connect the RF blue RIGHT FRT TURN and green LEFT FRT TURN wires to the other spade of the switch
http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii555/jdavuga18/Cobra/9212DAC7-A47D-463D-967D-3F6481E78052_zpsjhc13usr.jpg

VW Relay:
Split out and connect the RF brown HI BEAM IND wire to 56a
Connect the RF red LOW BEAM wire to 56b
Connect the RF blue HDLT SW>DIM SW to both 56 and 30
Run a new wire from S to a diode, merge with a wire from 85 of Bosch relay and connect to one of the Russ Thompson smaller black wires
http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii555/jdavuga18/Cobra/C244BF86-C909-4C54-8350-A694306EEB78_zpsvt9ltnjs.jpg
http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii555/jdavuga18/Cobra/DC7D3266-7904-4FD5-8CAE-565893B933A5_zpsyn7gxa4u.jpg

Bosch Relay (i am also using a relay plug):
Connect the other split of the RF brown HI BEAM IND wire to 30
Merge a wire with the one coming from S of the VW relay and connect to one of the Russ Thompson smaller black wires
Connect RF brown HIGH BEAM wire to both 86 and 87
87a is not used
http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii555/jdavuga18/Cobra/232E7ED5-876C-448C-AA89-0FEB715D4B30_zpsuzdbfbbq.jpg
http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii555/jdavuga18/Cobra/DC7D3266-7904-4FD5-8CAE-565893B933A5_zpsyn7gxa4u.jpg

Russ Thompson:
Ground the other small black wire
http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii555/jdavuga18/Cobra/4F0F6278-1804-45AD-8A4B-9C8F2E173057_zpsdd124ijm.jpg

[NICK C]

Sounds good to me. I'm in the process myself and am trying to get confident in the procedure. Nick

[lahrs37]

I am going to lurk as I am doing the same right now and am definitely not sure what I am doing!

[RickP]

The RT turn signal wiring can be daunting at first. In fact I wired it once to get it working, then re-wired it to clean it up. Your assumptions are correct. If your wiring a flash to pass and using the FFR supplied headlight switch, use this schematic
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=68089&d=1495414273

The verbiage on the bottom of the schematic (can't see it in this image) is accurate and addresses your questions exactly.

I ended up wiring the entire circuit using distribution blocks depicted and just Velcro'd them to the back of the firewall (if you have room). I can't recall exactly what positions the headlight switch needs to be in to operate the flash to pass vs. high beam but the RF harness makes it real easy to wire it. There is a plug that connects from the FR harness to the back of the switch.

[Jdav]

The RT turn signal wiring can be daunting at first. In fact I wired it once to get it working, then re-wired it to clean it up. Your assumptions are correct. If your wiring a flash to pass and using the FFR supplied headlight switch, use this schematic
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=68089&d=1495414273

The verbiage on the bottom of the schematic (can't see it in this image) is accurate and addresses your questions exactly.

I ended up wiring the entire circuit using distribution blocks depicted and just Velcro'd them to the back of the firewall (if you have room). I can't recall exactly what positions the headlight switch needs to be in to operate the flash to pass vs. high beam but the RF harness makes it real easy to wire it. There is a plug that connects from the FR harness to the back of the switch.

Thanks RickP
I saw that one, but didn't really understand how those distribution blocks were set up. Are the inputs directly across from each other connected but the ones above and below isolated?

Any strong reason against just using butt connections with heat shrink?

[edwardb]

I saw that one, but didn't really understand how those distribution blocks were set up. Are the inputs directly across from each other connected but the ones above and below isolated?

Yes.

[RickP]

Any strong reason against just using butt connections with heat shrink?

Great debate going on in another thread currently regarding connectors etc. Everyone has an opinion on what's best.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?24548-Wiring-connector-advice-please

For me personally, I did not use any type of butt connector. I soldered those type of connections and heat shrinked them. Just my own personal preference. Del City is a great source (EdwardB turned me on to this source quite some time ago) for any type of electrical component such as heat shrink, terminals, terminal blocks, distribution blocks etc.

And yes, to echo EdwardB's response to your other question on the terminal block. Whatever you feed going in one side, its the same going out on the other side. The terminals are connected from side to side underneath. With a simple jumper from terminal to another terminal (set), you eliminate the need to splice a wire. If you took the terminal (distribution) blocks out of the schematic RT provides, you would end up splicing a lot of wires together. Not a good way to go and over complicates an already complicated circuit.

Last, regarding jumpers. I made my own but they do make little metal jumpers. I didn't see any on Del City website specifically for their terminal blocks, but this is what I'm talking about. .

https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/molex-llc/0387236502/WM4244-ND/2424514

Maybe Paul has a better source?

[lahrs37]

I have that diagram, but I can't figure out how the supplied FFR headlight switch plays into it. http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e18/laurenceharrington/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20170528_163337_zpsxprocr8h.jpg

[lahrs37]

Wait, I think I answered my question. It is left alone, right?

[GFX2043mtu]

Leave the headlight seitch alone. As with most British cars I wired the momentary switch through a relay to work the horns. This also cleans up the dash a bit. Some have also used it as a flash to pass and wired it through a relay in conjunction to the high beam switch. As with all the functions of the turn signal kit you need to run it through a realay as the contacts with in it can't handle the current draw of what they are activating.

[RickP]

Wait, I think I answered my question. It is left alone, right?

Laurence, are you using the Ron Francis harness? If you are, Ron provides a plug for it.

[edwardb]

I have that diagram, but I can't figure out how the supplied FFR headlight switch plays into it. http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e18/laurenceharrington/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20170528_163337_zpsxprocr8h.jpg


Wait, I think I answered my question. It is left alone, right?

I assume you're referring to the diagram in post #4 and #5. You and others are correct. The headlight switch is used as is with the connector provided in the RF harness. Not affected by the referenced diagram.

All the options get a little confusing. But in the end it's maybe not as complicated as it seems. The RT turn signal assembly has two simple switches. One SPDT switch for the turn signals. Replaces the dash mounted SPDT switch provided in the kit. Wired like the RF schematic shows, except now you have a steering column mounted and self cancelling turn signal function. If wired along with the kit provided two indicators and DPST hazard switch exactly like the RF schematic shows, everything works as advertised.

The RT assembly also has a momentary pushbutton switch in the end of the turn signal stalk. This can be used for whatever you want. Many use it for the horn as already mentioned. Since the RF harness already has a relay for the horn, it's as simple as attaching the two RF dash horn wires to the momentary switch and you're done.

Others want it to be for headlight high/low beam switching, replacing a dash mounted switch as shown in the RF schematic. This is where it gets more complicated because now a latching relay is required. And if a flash to pass function is desired, gets even more complicated with another relay. Then you end up with a solution like the diagram shows. There are several variations, but in the end are similar with how they use the relays.

[lahrs37]

Laurence, are you using the Ron Francis harness? If you are, Ron provides a plug for it.

Yes I am and I see it now, thanks.

[lahrs37]

I assume you're referring to the diagram in post #4 and #5. You and others are correct. The headlight switch is used as is with the connector provided in the RF harness. Not affected by the referenced diagram.

All the options get a little confusing. But in the end it's maybe not as complicated as it seems. The RT turn signal assembly has two rather simple switches. One SPDT switch for the turn signals. Replaces the dash mounted SPDT switch provided in the kit. Wired just like the RF diagram shows, except now you have a steering column mounted and self cancelling turn signal function. If wired along with the kit provided two indicators and DPST hazard switch exactly like the RF schematic shows, everything works as advertised.

The RT assembly also has a momentary pushbutton switch in the end of the turn signal stalk. This can be used for whatever you want. Many use it for the horn as already mentioned. Since the RF harness already has a relay for the horn, it's as simple as attaching the two RF dash horn wires to the momentary switch and you're done.

Others want it to be for headlight high/low beam switching, replacing a dash mounted switch as shown in the RF diagram. This is where it gets a little more complicated because now a relay is required. And if a flash to pass function is desired, gets even a little more complicated. Then you end up with a solution like the diagram shows. There are several variations, but in the end are similar with how they use the relays.

In hindsight I might have simply made the button on the stalk the horn, but I have already finished the dash and included the horn button. I have the RF harness and will rely on the referenced diagram. I have already snagged the relays and diodes referenced. The main thing I am now running into is that the wires coming from RT assembly seem to be totally different colors. I.e. I have 2 smaller red wires coming from the assembly that don't seem to be referenced in that diagram.

[edwardb]

In hindsight I might have simply made the button on the stalk the horn, but I have already finished the dash and included the horn button. I have the RF harness and will rely on the referenced diagram. I have already snagged the relays and diodes referenced. The main thing I am now running into is that the wires coming from RT assembly seem to be totally different colors. I.e. I have 2 smaller red wires coming from the assembly that don't seem to be referenced in that diagram.

Don't get hung up on the colors of the wires in the RT assembly. There should be only five wires and they're easy to identify with a continuity tester or VOM. Two wires that are normally open and closed when the momentary switch is pushed. Find those first. As I recall, they're a smaller gauge than the others. The three remaining will be for the turn signals. One of them will be common. The other two will have continuity to the common wire when the turn signal is activated. One in the left turn position. One in the right turn position.

[mtwarog]

Not sure if this will help or hurt, but here's how I wired it on mine:

I had bought the Russ Thompson turn signal system and at the end of the turn signal is a small button (see "PUSH" in diagram below). Like many others I wanted to use this for the high beam switch. Also this button can be used as a "flash to pass" button. With that the headlight switch doesn't need to be on to flash them.
Back to the documents and the forum to figure out how to wire this thing up. Also shown is that I wired up the fog lights to the low beam output signal. The thought is that when you put on the high beams, the fog lights will shut off. For the Relay Switch I used a Standard LR-35. Here's what I ended up with:
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f381/mtwarog/Coupe/electric/electric5_flash_pass_zpszzpztgse.jpg

For the hazard switch, I used the ON-ON double pole switch from the kit. For the turn signal, I was using the Russ Thompson turn signal. It took a bunch of research to figure out how I wanted to connect it up. Eventually I settled upon the following schematic:
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f381/mtwarog/Coupe/electric/electric5_haz_turn_zpskizca0nw.jpg

Normally, the hazard switch will be in the down position (connecting left to middle in the above picture), which connects the turn signal path. The middle connection of the hazard switch goes to the dash LED and front/rear lights for each side. Then the turn signal will function.

With the hazard switch in the up position (connecting right to middle in the above picture), the turn signal will be bypassed and since the hazard flasher connects to both the left and the right side of the switch, both sides will flash.

-Matt

[lahrs37]

Don't get hung up on the colors of the wires in the RT assembly. There should be only five wires and they're easy to identify with a continuity tester or VOM. Two wires that are normally open and closed when the momentary switch is pushed. Find those first. As I recall, they're a smaller gauge than the others. The three remaining will be for the turn signals. One of them will be common. The other two will have continuity to the common wire when the turn signal is activated. One in the left turn position. One in the right turn position.

Oh that is super helpful. Thanks!

[lahrs37]

Not sure if this will help or hurt, but here's how I wired it on mine:

I had bought the Russ Thompson turn signal system and at the end of the turn signal is a small button (see "PUSH" in diagram below). Like many others I wanted to use this for the high beam switch. Also this button can be used as a "flash to pass" button. With that the headlight switch doesn't need to be on to flash them.
Back to the documents and the forum to figure out how to wire this thing up. Also shown is that I wired up the fog lights to the low beam output signal. The thought is that when you put on the high beams, the fog lights will shut off. For the Relay Switch I used a Standard LR-35. Here's what I ended up with:
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f381/mtwarog/Coupe/electric/electric5_flash_pass_zpszzpztgse.jpg

For the hazard switch, I used the ON-ON double pole switch from the kit. For the turn signal, I was using the Russ Thompson turn signal. It took a bunch of research to figure out how I wanted to connect it up. Eventually I settled upon the following schematic:
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f381/mtwarog/Coupe/electric/electric5_haz_turn_zpskizca0nw.jpg

Normally, the hazard switch will be in the down position (connecting left to middle in the above picture), which connects the turn signal path. The middle connection of the hazard switch goes to the dash LED and front/rear lights for each side. Then the turn signal will function.

With the hazard switch in the up position (connecting right to middle in the above picture), the turn signal will be bypassed and since the hazard flasher connects to both the left and the right side of the switch, both sides will flash.

-Matt

Cool! That is really helpful too! I will head back into the garage ready to conquer! :)

[lahrs37]

Well I managed to make it so only the brights work and the left turn signal is stuck on. Interestingly the right signal works as it is supposed to. No running lights at all and the hazards don't operate. I flipped the diodes just in case I installed them backwards, and rechecked the wires coming from the RT mechanism. Finally I just had to walk away. Hopefully when I come back with fresh eyes I will see something dumb and obvious!

[lahrs37]

What wire is "To headlight switch feed 2" in the RT diagram? There doesn't seem to be a corresponding wire on the RF side.

[lahrs37]

Quick update (should I start a new thread?) I went to start troubleshooting today and noticed the headlights no longer came on at all. Then I noticed the VW relay was smoking. I quickly disconnected it and burned the #$_& out of my fingers in the process. I checked​ my fuses and I have blown several. Obviously I am not fit to be doing this. I am going to go get new fuses and see how I can simplify this circuit. I really don't need flash to pass - that can just be a dead button. Probably better than setting my car on fire... :)

[phileas_fogg]

You can do this. But remember that blown fuses indicate a problem and are not a problem themselves. Cliche advice, but it's good advice: one circuit at a time, figure out what's going wrong that caused the fuse to blow. Make one change & test it before making any other changes. When you're tired of chasing electrons, work on something else. It's not like you don't have other stuff you can do!


John

[lahrs37]

You can do this. But remember that blown fuses indicate a problem and are not a problem themselves. Cliche advice, but it's good advice: one circuit at a time, figure out what's going wrong that caused the fuse to blow. Make one change & test it before making any other changes. When you're tired of chasing electrons, work on something else. It's not like you don't have other stuff you can do!


John

That is great advice John. I traced the problem to the unused Hot Rod section of the RF harness. I had clipped it and wrapped it, but hadn't isolated the individual wires. Progress! :)

[Jdav]

What wire is "To headlight switch feed 2" in the RT diagram? There doesn't seem to be a corresponding wire on the RF side.

Lawrence, did you ever confirm what wire this was?

[edwardb]

What wire is "To headlight switch feed 2" in the RT diagram? There doesn't seem to be a corresponding wire on the RF side.


Lawrence, did you ever confirm what wire this was?

You won't find that wire in the RF harness. You need to add it. The added jumper wire provides the "always on" power for the flash to pass function.

[Jdav]

You won't find that wire in the RF harness. You need to add it. The added jumper wire provides the "always on" power for the flash to pass function.
Where do you jump it from?

[edwardb]

Where do you jump it from?

It's shown on the wiring diagram first shown in post #4. "Headlight switch 2" is a terminal on the headlight switch. Added jumper goes from there to the indicated terminal block on the wiring diagram.

[Jdav]

It's shown on the wiring diagram first shown in post #4. "Headlight switch 2" is a terminal on the headlight switch. Added jumper goes from there to the indicated terminal block on the wiring diagram.

So somewhere on here?
http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii555/jdavuga18/Cobra/85B5C367-943E-48E3-B0F5-FD88873F0FB7_zpsro3nbp14.jpg

And then I think I have everything else run according to the diagram in post 4, but I have a LEFT FRONT TURN and RIGHT FRONT TURN wire (solo, not a part of the 3 wire bundle) that I'm not sure where they go
http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii555/jdavuga18/Cobra/9212DAC7-A47D-463D-967D-3F6481E78052_zpsjhc13usr.jpg

[lahrs37]

Lawrence, did you ever confirm what wire this was?

edwardb explained it perfectly. I ended up simplifying my set up and got rid of the whole flash to pass thing. The dimmer switch ends up doing the same thing, so I mounted that close to the wheel. I would chime in about the turn signal wires and the hazard, but I ended up making a few mistakes and redoing a few things. I don't think I used the turn signal wires. Not sure about the extra hazard wire...

[Ducky2009]

Jdav, Lahr37, On the light harness plug, both red wires are hot with ignition off (master switch on). You can use either one to feed the Bosch relay, terminals 86 & 87, but make sure you use the same wire size as the feed to the switch...... You are using this feed to flash the lights.

The solo wires, left and right turn go to the dash (speedo) turn-indicator lights. You do not need diodes on the turn indicator lights (per the RT instructions) because each light in an individual (isolated) light bulb. The double turn signal wires and the double pink hazard flasher wires go to the hazard flasher switch (center connectors). Because the switch is a double pole, single throw, again, you do not need diodes. If you connect the turn wires to the bottom terminals of the switch, the hazard lights will work when the switch is flipped up.

NOTE: The diode between the VW and Bosch relays is needed. I wired per RT instructions (less four diodes) and everything works, including flash to pass. If you have questions, email me.

[edwardb]

Ducky2009 covered it. You just need an added hot wire from the headlight circuit to power the relay and light them when the headlight switch is off. There shouldn't be any extra wires. Everything is accounted for in the RF schematic plus the referenced schematic in post #4. As I recall, the indicator light wires are specifically marked as such.


edwardb explained it perfectly. I ended up simplifying my set up and got rid of the whole flash to pass thing. The dimmer switch ends up doing the same thing, so I mounted that close to the wheel.

Not sure I understand this. Flash to pass means pushing the high beam switch with the lights off flashes the high beams on/off. A particularly annoying thing I don't appreciate when people do it to me BTW. Not the same thing as switching back and forth between low and high beam when the lights are already on.

[Jdav]

Ducky2009 covered it. You just need an added hot wire from the headlight circuit to power the relay and light them when the headlight switch is off. There shouldn't be any extra wires. Everything is accounted for in the RF schematic plus the referenced schematic in post #4. As I recall, the indicator light wires are specifically marked as such.


OK, so cut the additional hot (red) wire from the headlight switch and split it into 2 (one remaining run to wherever it is run to in the harness and the second, new one to my terminal block)?

Re: extra wires, from the RF harness, I have these bundles of wires that are for right front turn/right rear turn/right turn indicator (BLUE/WHITE/BLUE) and left front turn/left rear turn/left turn indicator (GREEN/YELLOW/GREEN) that i was gong to connect to the terminal block as shown.
http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii555/jdavuga18/Cobra/5EF85F23-C038-451B-8AAB-07C0EC4A97BD_zpsh0unrend.jpg

But then I also have a separate single wire for Left Front Turn and Right Front Turn that I cant find in the schematic
http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii555/jdavuga18/Cobra/9212DAC7-A47D-463D-967D-3F6481E78052_zpsjhc13usr.jpg

[edwardb]

Yes to the first part. That works. Not sure I can explain about the extra wires. Any chance these are are from the Hot Rod harness? That's an extra leg that's also in the harness that can be left as is or many of us just prune it off.

[Jdav]

Yes to the first part. That works. Not sure I can explain about the extra wires. Any chance these are are from the Hot Rod harness? That's an extra leg that's also in the harness that can be left as is or many of us just prune it off.

I pruned off the leg that was labeled "Hot Rod", these are in the leg that all of the other lighting wiring is in. I guess I'll just cap them and wire tie them out of the way.

Thanks for all of your help on this. I'm sure I sound like an idiot at times, but I'd rather get confirmation from the experts and do it right the first time than guess and have to re-work.

[Ducky2009]

OK, so cut the additional hot (red) wire from the headlight switch and split it into 2 (one remaining run to wherever it is run to in the harness and the second, new one to my terminal block)?

Joel, I didn't "cut" the red wire. I removed the wire from the harness plug (use a small screw driver to release from harness plug) and skinned the insulation about an inch back, then used a connector end (cutting the end off) and pried it open a little and slipped over the skinned wire. After adding the extra wire, I crimped the extra wire to the bare wire and soldered. Because the wire is not in the harness plug you can slide shrink tubing over and heat shrink to seal it up. Re-install is correct place. Take care to take a pic, there are a few empty spots in the plug... made sure you put it back in the correct place.

Turn signals: The multi wires and the single wire is connected in the harness. You can run the multi wires to the RT turn signal switch and the single wire to the hazard switch, or vise-versa, which ever gives you the ability to reach each switch (wire length). The pink hazard wire goes to the hazard switch. The gray wire is the common for the RT turn signals. FYI... I unwrapped the tape/plastic wire covers and separated the single wires and gray wire, taped and covered with the plastic cover, then they were long enough to reach the turn signal switch.

[lahrs37]

Ducky2009 covered it. You just need an added hot wire from the headlight circuit to power the relay and light them when the headlight switch is off. There shouldn't be any extra wires. Everything is accounted for in the RF schematic plus the referenced schematic in post #4. As I recall, the indicator light wires are specifically marked as such.



Not sure I understand this. Flash to pass means pushing the high beam switch with the lights off flashes the high beams on/off. A particularly annoying thing I don't appreciate when people do it to me BTW. Not the same thing as switching back and forth between low and high beam when the lights are already on.

Yes, you are totally correct! In Philly, because the roads are so little there are many times on "2 way roads" that only one person can fit so we flash our lights to indicate the other person goes. Because of the whole no-roof thing I can simply wave people on, so that isn't an issue. :)

[Papa]

lights off[/U] flashes the high beams on/off.

Flash to pass is a helpful feature in my neck of the woods to warn on-coming drivers of deer or antelope near the road. In Germany when driving on the autobahn, if you see lights flashing in your rearview mirror, you better get over to the right lane or risk being run over by someone driving much faster than you.

A driver's favorite sign:
68645

[Ducky2009]

Jdav, Lahr37, The solo wires, left and right turn go to the dash (speedo) turn-indicator lights....

I miss spoke here. The turn indicator (dash indicator lights) are marked as such. The single and multi wires go to the RT turn signal switch and hazard switch as described before.

[Jdav]

I miss spoke here. The turn indicator (dash indicator lights) are marked as such. The single and multi wires go to the RT turn signal switch and hazard switch as described before.

So even though the single wires are marked as FRT, they actually connect to the rear as well?
Meaning I could connect the single wires to my terminal instead of making the run highlighted in red in the attached?
68664

[Ducky2009]

So even though the single wires are marked as FRT, they actually connect to the rear as well?
Meaning I could connect the single wires to my terminal instead of making the run highlighted in red in the attached?
68664

Yes. The single blue wire (FRT) is one-in-the-same of the blue wires in the multi wire connection. The attached wiring schematics from RT is easier to understand IMO. If you unwrap the turn signal harness wires it will be much easier to see/understand.
ALSO: Because the turn indicator lights are two separate bulbs (instead of one in the RT instructions) you don't need diodes (2) on the indicator lights. Also, because the hazard switch is a single throw, double pole switch (isolating each side of the switch) you don't need diodes (2) for the hazard switch. Only one diode between the VW and Bosch relays is needed.

68665

[Ducky2009]

Joel,
Here's the info I promised you. Wiring per the Coyote Fitment - Roadster manual (page 74) will eliminate the inertia switch. The attached pic is from an older manual, but it too is wrong. See pic for how to wire and keep inertia switch in operation.


68689

[Jdav]

I'm about to button this up, but want to confirm that using this method, I do not use the DPST switch for the hazard lights, but a SPST

[edwardb]

I'm about to button this up, but want to confirm that using this method, I do not use the DPST switch for the hazard lights, but a SPST

Yes. Wired per post #4, a SPST is used for the hazards. Closing the two wires completes the circuits for the pink hazard feed to supply +12V to the turns signals on all four corners. The diodes prevent the hazard circuit from backfeeding into the turn signal circuit.

[Ducky2009]

I'm about to button this up, but want to confirm that using this method, I do not use the DPST switch for the hazard lights, but a SPST

Joel, if you wire per the FFR instructions, Chassis Wiring Harness, page 29, and use a DPST switch (supplied), you don't need diodes in the circuit. One less thing to go wrong in the system.

[Jdav]

I thought I followed the diagram correctly, but clearly I have an issue. Before I go testing everything, does anyone have an idea of what I could have done wrong?
Here is what is happening:
Brake lights work
Rear running lights work
Flashers work, but indicating left turn signal and high beams on the dashboard
Front running lights work

Turn signals don't work
Headlights don't work

[edwardb]

I thought I followed the diagram correctly, but clearly I have an issue. Before I go testing everything, does anyone have an idea of what I could have done wrong?
Here is what is happening:
Brake lights work
Rear running lights work
Flashers work, but indicating left turn signal and high beams on the dashboard
Front running lights work

Turn signals don't work
Headlights don't work

I can't offer any specific advice other than to go back through the diagram and carefully check all the wiring. You have a circuit crossing with another (flashing hazards with high beam indicator) and circuits not working (turn signals, headlights) that aren't necessarily related. Also check the wiring at each of your running lights/turn signals/brake light fixtures. It's easy to get things crossed up there. Either of your own doing or occasionally the fixtures themselves have crossed wires out of the box. Confirm the proper ground, high, and low intensity connection in each.

[boat737]

Take one symptom at a time. Even though they may or may not be related problems, tackling one issue at a time will keep things simple (or simpler). Also, a Power Probe is fantastic in these types of issues. A required tool when doing these types of projects, and especially diagnosing these types of problems.

As for the Blue (hi beam) light flashing with the hazards, sounds like it is hooked into the flashing/hazard circuit, where the Green (right turn) light should be. Start there. Begin at the dash blue light, and trace it back to where it is hooked into the system and where it's getting it's 12 volts. Do the same with the Green (right turn) dash light. That may be just simply swapping those two wires.

As for the headlights, they are independent of the turn signal system, so it should be it's own separate problem. Start by making sure you have 12v going to the switch. As EdwardB says, test power and proper wiring at each socket (in this case the headlight sockets, and later all of the turn/brake/parking light sockets.) Make sure the 12v is on the proper contact, and ground is on the proper contact, and in fact a good ground. Jump 12v to the headlight bulbs to make sure they work and are not the problem (again the Power Probe is awesome).

I just went through an issue of the green left turn dash indicator light illuminating when the brake pedal was pushed. Everything else in my lighting and electrical system worked perfectly, except that. It was a simple problem, that because of the behind the dash wiring and lack of room was not so easy to fix, but it simply was that that indicator light was wired to the REAR turn light, instead of the FRONT turn light. Simple, just not easy. But by starting at the dash indicator, and following it to where it got 12v power, I figured it out and I got it fixed.

Get a Power Probe.

[2bking]

I thought I followed the diagram correctly, but clearly I have an issue. Before I go testing everything, does anyone have an idea of what I could have done wrong?
Here is what is happening:
Flashers work, but indicating left turn signal and high beams on the dashboard
Turn signals don't work
Headlights don't work
The high beam indicator light should only connect to the high beam circuit and come on when the high beams are powered. The fact that this light comes on with the turn signals indicates a wiring error with the high beam indicator. The other problems could be related to diodes being backwards, grounds not completed, or a wiring error.

[Jdav]

King, if I cant run down the issue, I may see if you can make me one of those modules you posted about - that would sure clean up the mess of wires I have currently. I honestly feel like the RT turn signal/hi beam/low beam wiring has been the most challenging part of the build.

[Jdav]

One other question - which wire goes to which terminal on the headlights? I assume black to black, but the other colors dont match up.

[edwardb]

King, if I cant run down the issue, I may see if you can make me one of those modules you posted about - that would sure clean up the mess of wires I have currently. I honestly feel like the RT turn signal/hi beam/low beam wiring has been the most challenging part of the build.

IMO the schematic you're trying to use makes things seem a lot more complicated than they really are. Especially if you're not comfortable with things electrical. If you start from the Ron Francis schematic provided with the harness, and follow each of the circuits using the FF supplied switches, you'll see things are maybe a little easier to understand. With the standard wiring and switches, you can have left and right turn signals with indicators, hazards, high and low headlights with an indicator. The only thing missing is the flash to pass. No diodes as long as you use the double pole switch for the hazards to keep the hazard circuit from feeding into the turn signals. With that working, you can replace the SPDT FF supplied turn signal switch with the turn signal switch in the Russ Thompson turn signal. It's exactly the same thing.

At that point, the only thing missing is using the momentary switch on the Russ Thompson turn signal for high/low beam and even flash to pass. That's when relays are needed. You can forget that and use the button for something else, like your horn. Or use a module like the one King designed. Or find a different schematic that only wires in the headlight relays. All the other stuff in the schematic you're trying to use is nice (I guess) but isn't necessary to make things work. Maybe that helps at least sort it out a little.


One other question - which wire goes to which terminal on the headlights? I assume black to black, but the other colors dont match up.

The RF harness front harness has Brown for high beam, Red for low beam, and Black for ground. They're marked. On the FF supplied pigtails for the headlights, White is high beam, Red is low beam, Black is ground.

[Jdav]

I'm making progress.
Headlights are now working and RT button activates hi/low beams as planned. I think my issue was either that I didnt have both lights hooked up at the same time or my temporary connections werent actually connected. either way, working now.

Dash indicator lights are now working. I had switched the wires coming out of the gauge. Hi beam indicator was blue and i connected to the blue rt turn ind wire. Dumb mistake.

Now i just need to figure out why the turn signals arent working.

[edwardb]

I'm making progress.
Headlights are now working and RT button activates hi/low beams as planned. I think my issue was either that I didnt have both lights hooked up at the same time or my temporary connections werent actually connected. either way, working now.

Dash indicator lights are now working. I had switched the wires coming out of the gauge. Hi beam indicator was blue and i connected to the blue rt turn ind wire. Dumb mistake.

Now i just need to figure out why the turn signals arent working.

You're getting close. Great! If your hazards are working, then the harness connections to your lights are good. Maybe something as simple as the specific wires you're using from the RT turn signal. One is common, and goes to the grey turn signal power wire shown in the diagram. The others are left and right and connect to common depending on the stalk position. Wire per the schematic, and should work.

[Jdav]

I tried switching the wires from the RT around to see if possibly they were different than noted, but still nothing.
I then used a jump wire to connect where I had the RT right and left (separately) input on the terminal block to the common input and the signals functioned.
So I have determined that RT stalk is not making the proper manual connection when activated. Since neither the left or right work, I assume it is the common. I'm going to call Russ tomorrow to see if he has any ideas

[Jdav]

Anyone know how I can test the connections inside of the Hub?

[edwardb]

Anyone know how I can test the connections inside of the Hub?

It's pretty easy to test the RT assembly with either a VOM or a continuity tester. There are five wires coming out of the assembly. The two small gauge wires are the momentary switch. Clip onto those with your tester. They should have continuity (closed) with the button pushed, and no continuity (open) with the button released. The three remaining larger gauge wires are the turn signal. One is common, one is left, one is right. Don't trust any schematics or color codes. Just test them. Pick two wires and clip onto them. Check for continuity with the stalk in the left and then right turn position. If one of them works, that's the combination for that direction. If neither works, you have the left and right wires. Remove one and clip to the remaining wire. That should give you one direction. With this process of elimination you should be able to find the right wires. It's a simple switch.

[Jdav]

I have no continuity on the turn signal to common wires.
I spoke to Russ, and the only thing we can think of is that the spring inside of the switch popped loose.
I'm sending it back to him to take a look.
Russ was very helpful.

[edwardb]

I have no continuity on the turn signal to common wires.
I spoke to Russ, and the only thing we can think of is that the spring inside of the switch popped loose.
I'm sending it back to him to take a look.
Russ was very helpful.

Sorry to hear that, but Russ will take care of you.

[JRL16]

I had some issues with mine. Wound up being wires in the hub weren't connected where they were supposed to be. After connecting them in a couple of different ways they finally worked as they should. It is a little extra work but is worth it in the long run.

[cfriedman67]

Some of the images don’t come up and say something about updating your account to allow third party hosting? Is that something I need to do?

[lahrs37]

Some of the images don’t come up and say something about updating your account to allow third party hosting? Is that something I need to do?

For years and years people on all types of forums used Photobucket to host their pictures for free. Photobucket decided that they weren't making enough money and now for those pictures to be available people need to pay a subscription. They basically broke a huge part of the internet's collective knowledge. It really is heartbreaking.

[cfriedman67]

Thanks for letting me know.

[Jdav]

Thanks for letting me know.

There is a chrome plug in you can add that will allow you to see the images. It was discussed in a post on here, but I cant seem to find it right now. If you use chrome as your browser, you should be able to search for photobucket hotlnk fix or photobucket embed fix.

[lahrs37]

There is a chrome plug in you can add that will allow you to see the images. It was discussed in a post on here, but I cant seem to find it right now. If you use chrome as your browser, you should be able to search for photobucket hotlnk fix or photobucket embed fix.

Thanks! That is like a miracle. :)

[cfriedman67]

Hi Jdav, in your post you mention to “Connect the RF blue HDLT SW>DIM SW to both 56 and 30” I’m assuming that means I need to splice into the blue wire and make another connector as there is only one blue wire.

[Jdav]

Hi Jdav, in your post you mention to “Connect the RF blue HDLT SW>DIM SW to both 56 and 30” I’m assuming that means I need to splice into the blue wire and make another connector as there is only one blue wire.

I used distribution blocks and jump wires

[cfriedman67]

Ok. Thanks

[ckrueger]

The RT turn signal wiring can be daunting at first. In fact I wired it once to get it working, then re-wired it to clean it up. Your assumptions are correct. If your wiring a flash to pass and using the FFR supplied headlight switch, use this schematic
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=68089&d=1495414273

The verbiage on the bottom of the schematic (can't see it in this image) is accurate and addresses your questions exactly.

I ended up wiring the entire circuit using distribution blocks depicted and just Velcro'd them to the back of the firewall (if you have room). I can't recall exactly what positions the headlight switch needs to be in to operate the flash to pass vs. high beam but the RF harness makes it real easy to wire it. There is a plug that connects from the FR harness to the back of the switch.

This is the diagram I used and it all worked great!! I also used distribution blocks and jumper wires.

[BEAR-AvHistory]

For those of us that are wiring challenged there are spring loaded self centering "on off on" switches with long stems available to use as turn signal controllers.

[cfriedman67]

Appreciate the diagram. I hate to ask but what are distribution blocks? I have looked at your diagram many times. I am definitely electrically challenged and find this is the tuffest part. Do I need distribution blocks? Also, on the digram I don’t see the six pin hazard switch that I have anywhere on th diagram.

[Jdav]

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=78927&d=1515527848
In the photo, I have circled where the hazard toggle switch goes in this schematic. The switch provided is a double pole double throw (DPDT) switch with 2 inputs (center terminals) and 4 outputs (end terminals). You can use that and wire it to the terminals in the center and on one end, depending on which way you orient the switch. There is a full thread on that swich here: http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?26900-Hazard-Flasher-Switch&p=306990#post306990
Or, you can use a SPST switch if you use the diodes as in the diagram (I used the one that was provided for the turn signal since i wasnt using it for that purpose).

I have put a rectangle around all of the distribution blocks in the diagram. They are basically a place to connect 2 or more wires as the terminal each side is connected to each other.
I used these: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008DS266M/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[cfriedman67]

Thank you. I will order four of the terminal blocks and try again. Really appreciate the explanation and the links.

[cfriedman67]

Hopefully last question. If using the DPDT switch from factory five do I need to use any diodes? If not, in your diagram do I need to use a wire to replace the diodes or just leave them out totally of the distribution block?

[Jdav]

I'm really not sure on that one, maybe someone else with more electrical knowledge will chime in.

[edwardb]

If you're going to go this way, I'd recommend wiring it exactly like the schematic in post #71. Including with the diodes. You can still use the Factory Five provided DPDT switch. Just use two terminals. One of the center ones and one of the outer ones. Whichever way it orients the way you want. In that way, it acts like a SPST switch. With the two wired contacts closed, your hazards will work and with the installed diodes not backfeed to the turn signals.

[cfriedman67]

EdwardB thank you very much!

[cfriedman67]

Does it matter what gauge wire I use?

[cfriedman67]

79255. Hi Jdav, made s lot of progress but have a question. In the diagram that shows left and right turn signal wires coming from the Ron Francis wire harness there are three wires for each. One front one back and one extra in each left and right bundle. It shows two wires going across to the distribution block. What is the third wire for in each bundle? I have attached a picture. Thanks again for the help!!

[Jdav]

79255. Hi Jdav, made s lot of progress but have a question. In the diagram that shows left and right turn signal wires coming from the Ron Francis wire harness there are three wires for each. One front one back and one extra in each left and right bundle. It shows two wires going across to the distribution block. What is the third wire for in each bundle? I have attached a picture. Thanks again for the help!!

That is the dash signal indicator light feed
Looking at the diagram they are the wires directly across the distribution block from the signal lights - top right or the diagram

[Jdav]

Does it matter what gauge wire I use?

I used 18-gauge

[cfriedman67]

So the extra green wire and the extra grey wire from each bundle go to the signal indicator wire on the right side of the distribution block?

[Jdav]

So the extra green wire and the extra grey wire from each bundle go to the signal indicator wire on the right side of the distribution block?

You are making me realize how quickly I forgot all this stuff!
I was not clear at all in that last description.
The indicators are circled in blue on this diagram, but in our case, they actually go through the Ron Francis harness before they reach the actual dash lights.
So all you really need to do is have all 3 of those wires attach to the same point on the distribution block
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=79256&d=1515813071

the wires on the right side of the distribution block at that location will come from the Russ Thompson turn signal.

[cfriedman67]

Sorry to make you work so hard but thank you.

[Jdav]

Sorry to make you work so hard but thank you.

Ha ha. Happy to help. Just gives me even more respect for guys like edwardb an Kleiner who seem to be able to rattle this stuff off like they just did it yesterday.
I really found this wiring to be the most difficult part of the whole build, so it sounds like you are in the homestretch.

[cfriedman67]

I’m almost there. On the left side of the diagram in between the two RF connectors. It says “to headlight switch feed 2” Is that a wire from Ron Francis or do I need to make that? If I need to make it where does it go to once it leaves the Distribution block. I’m using the factory five head light switch from the complete kit.

Thanks again

[jlfernan]

It's located at the headlight switch plug from the RF harness. Just tie into it and you'll be fine.

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4761/39672392991_6df3c4d18f.jpg

[cfriedman67]

Thank you

[japollon]

I have the turn signal part of the switch figured out...I think. Can someone share with me a wiring diagram for using the momentary button for the horn including the relay?

Thanks, Joel

[edwardb]

I have the turn signal part of the switch figured out...I think. Can someone share with me a wiring diagram for using the momentary button for the horn including the relay?

Thanks, Joel

Post #82 above.

[japollon]

Sorry to keep beating an issue which for most people I assume is a very elementary electrical solution. I am trying to determine how to use the momentary button on the Russ Thompson turn signal switch to operate my horns. A relay is recommended in this circuit which I understand. However, in looking at the schematic and my fuse panel, a "horn relay" already exists there. My question is do I need an additional relay or is the one in the fuse panel sufficient? If it is sufficient it seems that I can simply connect the two, small black wires from the momentary button to the dash harness horn leads. Correct?

82990

[edwardb]

Sorry to keep beating an issue which for most people I assume is a very elementary electrical solution. I am trying to determine how to use the momentary button on the Russ Thompson turn signal switch to operate my horns. A relay is recommended in this circuit which I understand. However, in looking at the schematic and my fuse panel, a "horn relay" already exists there. My question is do I need an additional relay or is the one in the fuse panel sufficient? If it is sufficient it seems that I can simply connect the two, small black wires from the momentary button to the dash harness horn leads. Correct?

82990

Yep. That would be OK. The RF harness has the necessary relay on the horn circuit.

[Dan Ng]

I'm wiring up the Russ Thompson turn signal as shown in the wiring diagram in this post. There's one wire I'm confused about. There's a wire going to "headlight switch feed 2". What's the purpose of this? I powered up the system and everything works including the turn signals, the hazards and the high beam button on the steering column. Is this to allow me to flash my high beams without the lights being on?

[edwardb]

I'm wiring up the Russ Thompson turn signal as shown in the wiring diagram in this post. There's one wire I'm confused about. There's a wire going to "headlight switch feed 2". What's the purpose of this? I powered up the system and everything works including the turn signals, the hazards and the high beam button on the steering column. Is this to allow me to flash my high beams without the lights being on?

Yes. Described for that purpose several times in this thread. I know it's long... Without it, everything will still work. You just won't get the flash to pass function. Which is kind of a waste because that one relay (the non-latching one) is there just for that reason.

[Izzy]

Thanks RickP
I saw that one, but didn't really understand how those distribution blocks were set up. Are the inputs directly across from each other connected but the ones above and below isolated?

Any strong reason against just using butt connections with heat shrink?

Hello,
I've been following along here because we are at the same point in our build. A simple question: Looking at the Russ Thompson schematic, as shown in the post by "Rick P"... if you look at the circuit for the Left Turn signal we see a green wire (presumably carrying 12V) going to the distribution block, and from that point a wire going directly to the Turn Signal Indicator, and then to ground. A second wire from that point on the distribution block goes to the Russ Thompson assembly...but it appears to me that we already have a complete circuit to the Turn Indicator and then to ground...so, not sure why that light isn't constantly on.. I'm sure I'm missing something basic, here and hope someone can clarify-
Thanks!