body work questions

[LuckyWinner]

Can anyone tell me the steps in doing your own body prep? seams....pinholes...I want to do this myself. Can I get some feedback?

[Kevin Davis]

From ffcars.com, here's the guide in the FAQ:

Body Finishing Tips By Street Rod Painter (SRP)

Note: All the following information was compiled from StreetRodPainter's (Ken's Custom Auto Body) forum replies by Rob Dembosky. There is quite a bit of duplication but this information should help with the bodywork do-it-yourselfers! As SRP says, Cheers! Visit Ken's Custom Auto Body website to contact SRP.

Body Work Steps

Before the seams:

Put the body on the chassis and align all of the panels. Drill any holes for emblems, lights, etc, be sure to wash the body really good with a wax and grease remover, then follow with Comet on scotchbrite and hot water.

Seam Process:

I grind the seams and cut the body open and fill the seams with 3M vinylester blister repair filler in one day. I let it set for 2 weeks. I follow up with Rage to fair out the body, and let it set for a couple days, then prime it and let it set for a week or so. I block it and prime it again. if all looks well it will set for a couple weeks. In between I do the panels, hood and trunk hinges etc. After paint, I let it set for 3-5 days, and cut and buff it.

I wouldn't want to do it in any less than 30 days. Here's the reason. if you do the body work, prime it, it block it and shoot it in a week or so. then cut and buff it right away, it will look fantastic....for about a month. the fillers and primers will shrink, and you will have picturing under your paint. regardless of the types of fillers and primers that you use.

I use Rage and Rage Gold over the 3M vinylester blister repair filler. The repair filler is to do the filling of the ground out seam and that's all. If you try to use it beyond that, it makes a mess and is a B%$tch to sand. the vinylester filler is also difficult to sand. The main reason to use the blister repair filler is that it will not "picture" under the paint. that is the major concern with the way the seams are ground out. use the Rage to fair out the area. let it cure a couple days after you rough it in with 40 grit. then finish it out with 80 then 150 and prime it.

I do these cars in my sleep and faithfully use 3m's vinylester blister repair filler. a gallon will do 3 cars. use it for the seam area and deep work like you described, then fair it out with a high quality body filler like Rage. The vinylester repair filler has chopped fiber in it and uses a resin that is compatible with the body.

*Wipe down done with PrepsAll

Grinding seams:

As for grinding the seams, here is my preferred method. I use a DA with 80 grit and knock them down flat. you will see a "stripe" of gelcoat in the middle of the bare glass. I use a die grinder with a 1/4" wide grinding stone and remove 99% of the stripe. you will probably go anywhere from 1/16"-1/8" deep. After the stripe is gone, I use and angle die grinder with a 50 grit disc to taper the void from the stripe. Tape it off about and inch wide and fill with 3m vinyester repair filler until it is just level, not above. I DA with 80 to make the transition smooth and then fair it out with Rage Gold.

When filling the seams, you might want to tape to contain and limit the mess. When you get to the Rage part... make sure the tape is gone allowing you to fair in the rage with the gel coat.

Seams:

On seams, the grey "stripe" of gel coat needs to go. the gel coat could separate and leave a crack. had it happen. better safe than sorry. take it down another 1/16" then use the 3m blister repair. Don't try to use it as a fairing, just fill until nearly level. follow up with rage to get the contour correct.

On spots where I went through the gelcoat block sanding, around seams, and by the edges of body panels. I personally use Feather fill to cover the burn through areas, URO Primer should also work. Make sure you let it cure a few days before you block it. Also, if using West systems Rage works fine over it.

Hood and Hoop:

I use the 3M vinylester blister repair filler as a bonding agent for the hood hoop, but I also follow it up with a coat of fiberglass mat and vinylester resin.

3m's vinylester Blister repair filler for the initial fill, 3m vinylester fairing filler or Rage for the final fairing. About a quart and a half of the blister repair filler will do the seams on one car, and a gallon of Rage for fairing. the blister repair filler is also a very good bonding agent as listed on the spec sheet, or 3m's structural adhesive. I always follow with one layer of glass and resin as added insurance.

The 3m stuff goes on easy, It also matches the bodies composition better. on the back of the hood, it depends on if you are bonding the hinge on or not. If not, use gelcoat with a surface curing agent added. If you are bonding the hinge on, use Rage to fair it out.

Wheel Openings:

I DA with 80 the edge down to a consistent 1/4" roll all the way around. sometimes the cutout is off so I have to build it up with glass.

Painting:

I use Featherfil for the first step, then Dupont's 2k Urethane filler primer. The featherfil works very good for the first stage and you can glaze over it if you missed some pinholes. block it with 180 and follow up with a high quality 2k Urethane.

Base coat over K36 is fine, but make sure it is thoroughly sanded with no less than 400 grit. if you have any sand scratches deeper than 400, they will be hard to fill with the basecoat. if they aren't covered, they will show through the clear. single stage paints should have a sealer before they are sprayed or you could end up with a fisheye problem.

Clear can be wet or dry sanded, wet being the better was as the water washes away the dust and debris that could scratch the finish. as for sanding the base coat, you can as long as you lay a couple even coats just prior to clear. otherwise the scratches from sanding will be magnified by the clearcoat.

Colorsanding:

As for colorsanding... Most clears say to wait 16-24 hours and cut with 1500. that is with optimal conditions ie 70d constant during that 16-24 hour window, as well as perfect mixing and application. well all painters know that if you don't have the optimal conditions, you must adjust the mixing, application, and dry time. I personally wait about 48 hours to colorsand during the winter months, and about 36 hours during the summer, as I cannot always keep the shop at 70d and stay in business. anyhow, I start with 1000-1200 paper on a soft block like the one listed here using the black side. if you like a slight orange peel OEM look, use the gray side. http://www.motorguard.com/sur_1_1.html follow with 1500. make sure you only sand what you can buff, ie no edges, door jambs etc. I buff with a Wool pad and Finessit III by 3m. I always cover each section twice. wash off the compound residue and follow that with 3m glaze on a black foam pad at slow speed(<1200 rpm). Use Hand glaze to remove any swirls and your done.

Undercoating:

The stuff I use is here http://www.mortonpaint.com/products/index.html
it is a 2 part urethane epoxy that will coat bare fiberglass with no problems. you must scuff the bare fiberglass prior to coating.

I use the good stuff for the u/c. it builds to about 3/16" in one coat. it will prevent a rock from putting a star crack in your new paint. I thin it 10% for the spats and it works great. if I only used it for spats, it may cost about $20 in material 'cause I could do 10 cars with the kit. I can't say the same for the $3.99 a can stuff. it goes on like thick paint, stays kinda tacky, and peels off once it dries out(when used as undercoat).

Spats:

I have done a few with the truck bed liner 2 part epoxy. it works really good, and is very durable. I also know quite a few who have used 3m's rocker shutz.

This is the stuff that I use http://www3.uschem.com/uscp/display_product?pass_product_class=330&pass_category_number=31&pass_catalog_number=1

I use it for spats, as well as for undercoating the backside of the fenderwells. $180 per kit, I can undercoat and spat 2 ffr's.

Products:

1. 3M vinylester blister repair filler
2. Rage and Rage Gold
3. 3m vinylester fairing filler
4. PrepsAll
5. Featherfil

Products from Finishmaster. they are a national automotive paint supplier. my local rep called 3m and they drop shipped it directly to me.

Here is the link to the product that I use. http://multimedia.mmm.com/mws/mediawebserver.dyn?xxxxxxfDPILxR9Yxj9Yxxx8M2I_XXXX v-

I routinely use the 3m blister repair filler. a quart should do your seams
Rage you can get at any auto body supply store.

http://www.motorguard.com/sur_1_1.html

Buffing and cutting:

3M compounds:

Perfect-It 3 Rubbing compound
Perfect-It 3 Machine glaze
Perfect-It 3 Finishing compound

They were $20 to $30 per quart EACH

I used the 3M products as well in the following order after wet sanding.

3M(tm) Perfect-It(tm) III Rubbing Compound

3M(tm) Perfect-It(tm) III Machine Glaze

3M(tm) Perfect-It(tm) III Finishing Glaze

By the way, if you are interested in any of these items and can't find them locally, you can find them all online at
http://www.sherwin-automotive.com/

I used the 3M compound pad for the compound
http://www.Roadsterlads.com/paint/DSC00009.JPG.html

and then the softer buffing pads for the machine glaze
http://www.Roadsterlads.com/paint/DSC00010.JPG.html

Web Sites:

http://multimedia.mmm.com/mws/mediawebserver.dyn?xxxxxxfDPILxR9Yxj9Yxxx8M2I_XXXX v-

http://www3.uschem.com/uscp/display_product?pass_product_class=330&pass_category_number=31&pass_catalog_number=1

http://www.motorguard.com/sur_1_1.html

http://www.mortonpaint.com/products/index.html

[Scott Meyer]

I have a whole (very long) thread on ffcars.com that followed my body work from Oct. 09 - May 10

Not sure if it's okay to post a link to this but here goes. Mod's feel free to edit if needed:

Scott's Body work (and painting) thread (link) (http://www.ffcars.com/forums/showthread.php?t=230701)

[Kevin Davis]

Found this doc as well. It's a word doc called "The Body Experience by Tom Murphy.

354

[OttawaFFRer]

Scott's thread has me thinking I'll give it a shot. My bother in-law is a body man so I'm hoping for some help.

[Jeff Collins]

Guys it is OK to copy and paste your own post but not some one else's without written permission. We will have to take these down when we get to our house cleaning.

[cChrisM]

Great info and if more guys thought about offering their paint booth like MrMustang, there would be some great do it your self paint jobs.

[buildit]

Have others been able to open this file? I can't get it to open.......

Thanks!



Found this doc as well. It's a word doc called "The Body Experience by Tom Murphy.

354

[Kevin Davis]

Guys it is OK to copy and paste your own post but not some one else's without written permission. We will have to take these down when we get to our house cleaning.

Jeff, do you mean the stuff I put up is no good for putting here? I want to be compliant, so if not, i'll take it down, and folks can PM me if they want the doc.