Formacars 818 Front Inner Fenders

[Kyle @ Forma]

One aspect of the 818 that we felt could be improved was the protection around the front wheel wells. Even the shortest of trips, such as a loop around the parking lot, would leave the front end of our 818 full of debris. Although we had coated the inside of the body panels with under-body coating, that didn't stop the mess. Pebbles made their way into the battery compartment and even up onto the windshield surround. To help seal the front end up, we have developed these front inner fender liners. So far they have proved effective, so now we're offering them for sale!


With and without the inner fender liners. Notice the big opening above the front suspension
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Now for sale for $185 shipped!

For more information or to purchase, see our Website (https://www.formacars.com/store/80048)


Fitment Info:

Ride Height: One goal in the redesign was to accompany the "track" ride height as well. We brought the panel as high up in the fender as possible to maximize suspension clearance, but have not done any actual testing at this height.

Front-end: We have not had the opportunity to test the fender liners on an 818 equipped with the old-style front end. However, we believe they will work and encourage you to try. If they don't fit your front end, we will send you a return shipping label and a full refund.

Wipers: As Doug mentioned below (http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?24388-Formacars-818-Front-Inner-Fenders&p=283107&viewfull=1#post283107), trimming will be required to use the inner fenders with FFR's wiper kit. (No trimming required if used in conjunction with our Wiper kit :rolleyes:)

[metros]

Do they come powdered/coated as pictured?

These would be in addition to the FFR liners, correct?

[flynntuna]

Great idea. Do you recommend using an angled zerk fitting, or is there enough room to grease using the fitting in the picture?

[Chris @ Forma]

Our plan was not to powder coat them as everyone has different color preferences. On our builds we powder coat all of the sheet metal the same "prismatic silver artery" which we recommend as it hides dings and chips.

These panels are in addition to the FFR panels

I'm not sure if the guys looked at the zerk fitting question specifically, however, the panels extend outward just far enough to close off just outside the hood opening. Should still be able to get to it just pulling the wheel. I'm not going to the shop today as my wife volunteered me to help a friend put a new roof on her barn. I will be in the shop on Sunday afternoon and will look into this and confirm. If you want to be able to access without removing the wheel, you can install with threaded fasteners.

Finally, just to plug a technique that we use, we install all of our permanent panels with an air cured urethane adhesive/sealant. Unlike silicone this stuff is structural and gets rid of sheet metal vibration/buzz/rattle/noise. Not that you can hear it over our straight pipes. We have it available on our web store if anyone is interested.

Chris

[Kyle @ Forma]

...I'm not going to the shop today as my wife volunteered me to help a friend put a new roof on her barn...

We are witnessing history, folks! The only day ever that Chris isn't at work.



Great idea. Do you recommend using an angled zerk fitting, or is there enough room to grease using the fitting in the picture?

I don't have a wife so I did come into work today to check on this. There's about 2" above the zerk fittings. I didn't remove the wheel to try fitting a grease gun in there, but it looks like you would indeed need 90-degree fittings to grease it from the wheel well. As Chris said, we recommend using threaded fasteners on these panels. We used riv-nuts and #10 cap screws, so we can easily remove them to grease the suspension from above.

I didn't realize that my "installed" photo didn't show the fasteners, so I've updated the original attachments.

[ben1272]

I have thought about making covers for this area many times and think it is a great idea. The price seems reasonable too......might just give them a try.

I'll add, this is the kind of panel that should have come standard from FFR! I hope they add it to the rev list.

[AZPete]

Like Ben1272, I've had these on my list for a long time but my cheap 18" HF bending brake wouldn't make these bends. I like your design and the price is good, so I just placed my order on your web site. I'm in no hurry because I'm busy with other 818 projects for a while.

[ben1272]

The bulb seals are a nice addition and in line with FFR's kit, obviously. Just wanted to mention, rather than cutting several individual lengths to cover each side of the assembly, sometimes you can take one longer length and cut just the plastic clip portion, including miter cuts, so that they can be mounted around curves and corners. The result is a sometimes more desirable and sometimes more attractive single piece seal rather then all the separate segments with small gaps between.

I'll be placing an order.

-Ben

[Frank818]

I like that!!
I will order as soon as I get my plate, I don't want to invest too much without being sure I will get that plate...

[Chris @ Forma]

ben1272 That is an excellent point and frankly I don't think we considered this. We may try this on ours and include pics. The bulb seal that we provide in the kit is one piece 12' long. We know that everyone's body will fit a bit differently and how people apply the bulb seal may vary so we wanted to give everyone the most flexibility.
Chris @ forma

[brian b 36]

Will they work with the ffr wiper set up

[RM1SepEx]

Nice, I made mine last year... http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?10649-RM1Sepex-Build-Thread/page34 post 1329

Doug, time to do the trunk too... ;-)

[Doug @ Forma]

Will they work with the ffr wiper set up

That's an excellent question. We haven't seen an install of the FFR wiper kit, so we can't really say for sure. Do you have any pics of your install that we can review?

It will definitely work with our wiper kit (https://www.formacars.com/store/80037). :D


Nice, I made mine last year... http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?10649-RM1Sepex-Build-Thread/page34 post 1329

Doug, time to do the trunk too... ;-)

We did buy the FFR trunk kit with our 818, but didn't use it because our "trunk" is full of turbo & intercooler: :cool:

67566

I like what you've done, I'm curious about how what you did is different from the FFR trunk kit. Is it deeper? Is there a need for a better solution that we can help fill?

[phil1734]

The driver's side would not fit the FFR wiper kit without significant modification. I know that the wiper assembly blocks access to the rearward grease fitting (I can't even fit my normal sized thumb in there) on the UCA so I imagine it would interfere with these.
67605

The passenger side would need a simple trim around the bracket that supports the hood cowl.
67606

[RM1SepEx]

Doug the FFR trunk is fiberglass, mine's aluminum and larger. All the details are in that posting.

[Doug @ Forma]

Just a quick note on these. These will not work for cars at R ride height. There's not adequate clearance above the upper control arm. I'll have Kyle update the first post to show that.

We'll be in touch with buyers right away to verify that they are not running at R ride height before shipping.

We intend to review the design to accommodate the R ride height in the future.

[Doug @ Forma]

We were able to look at both the FFR wipers and the early front end at the open house this weekend.

On the wipers, as Phil noted above, our liners would require some trimming, particularly on the driver's side, but should be able to be made to fit. The one customer coupe at the open house had made his own liners similar to ours with the FFR wipers.

on the early nose, it looks like the shape of the front fenders in the area where our liners install is the same on the early nose as the late, so anyone with an early car with the Camry headlights should be able to use our liners as well.

As with all our products, if you aren't satisfied with them for any reason you can send them back for a full refund. So if it looks like they can't be trimmed to work with your wiper install or early front end, you can return them (prior to any modifications, of course).

[AZPete]

Thanks, Doug. Your front wheel well pieces fit nicely and will keep crud from messing up my front compartment.

71891

[Doug @ Forma]

Pete, they look great in your car, I'm glad you are pleased.

I see that you have 818 chassis #25, I assume that you have the early nose then, correct?

[lance corsi]

These parts are grossly overpriced.

[phil1734]

Random estimates based on experience here but:

Aluminum ~$40
Bulb seal ~$12
Shipping/Boxes ~$10
Waterjet cutting ~$20
.5 hour shop time ~$50

$30 or $40 isn't a huge profit for an ultra low volume "race car" part, but everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

[wirenut]

Pete, they look great in your car, I'm glad you are pleased.

I see that you have 818 chassis #25, I assume that you have the early nose then, correct?

Pete upgraded to the coupe, so he has the new front end.

[lance corsi]

Your prices are not right. You're about double what any commercial materials cost. And shipping is too high. Those parts could ship for less via USPS. And you're charging $100/hr for std shop rate, then adding more? If we had to pay at your prices for the rest of the car, we'd have north of $100k in cost. I don't care, I'm just saying you're higher than a cat's back on price.

[07FIREBLADE]

I agree they are a bit on the higher side. Shipping estimate seems fine if not a little low. For the size of the part and the speed that it took to get them USPS probably wouldn't be any cheaper. Depending on sources and commercial accounts material cost seem about right for the small purchases when compared to previous purchases I've done for similar amounts of aluminum in the same size needed to make the fenders.

You just have to keep in mind that it's all small company making niche products. They need to cover there cost and still turn a profit. You didn't have to buy them since you can obviously make them from the looks of your build. So instead of bashing a vendor go make your own. Since you can get the material for cheaper and your time is worth less than what it would cost to purchase the same product go make them for your car or don't your choice.

Rant over ��. Leave the vendor alone so they can continue to make things for customers who can't or don't want to make themselves.

[wirenut]

Couldn't agree more. For someone that doesn't have access to a brake and is paying retail for supplies, this isn't really a bad deal. Remember that a good majority of the builders are first timers working out of thier garage with limited tools. The community as a whole benefits from vendors making offers like this. Especially for the 818. (Tiny market)

If it's priced too high then noone will buy them.

[UnhipPopano]

The price breakdown was missing a couple of line items. These parts were/are powder coated correct? This would require finishing and paint/powder.

Remember that Market Demand is based on Price. If the price was too high, then they would not be able to sell any units, and this is not the case. If there was a lot of profit to be made, then you would expect to see other small companies offering a similar product enter the market. So if someone thinks they could make a better product for less, go for it.

[phil1734]

I have no ties to Forma, I'd just guessing based on doing this myself for several years.

Shop time is for deburring, bending, misc. handling time (materials and abrasives don't order themselves you know.)

And I forgot to factor in the design time. Their first set didn't appear out of thin air, and someone had to then convert them a CAD file, probably via a software package that costs a few grand a year to maintain.

As for volume, keep in mind that if every owner of an 818S, C and R were to buy a set of these right now they'd still only move 450 units.

On a personal note, if I didn't have the FFR wiper kit, I'd buy these in a heartbeat. I'm still strongly considering getting them and hacking up the driver side to fit, but I've promised myself that I wasn't going to spend money or work on my car over the summer so that I actually had time to drive it this year. :p

Ed: Parts are not coated from Forma.

[lance corsi]

Sorry folks, didn't mean to sound mean, just struck me as high. Anyone can get reasonable prices on sheet aluminum from McMaster Carr. I've been using the 3003 series buying 3' x 4' sheet.
I also thought their rub rail kit was too thick and too pricey. Do what u want.

[AZPete]

Lance, perhaps I was stupid for buying these, but perhaps not.
I could have made a cardboard template after several trials and changes with tape and scissors - I've done that before.
I could have bought an aluminum sheet and shipping from Onlinemetals.com or McMaster-Carr, as I've done before.
Then I could have cut out the 2 pieces with a nibbler or sabre saw, then straightened and deburred the edges - I've done that before.
My 18-inch bending brake from Harbor Freight is small enough to store under my work bench, but not big enough for this, so I could take the 2 pieces to a metal shop with a bigger brake - I did that before for my firewall piece and it took a week and $50, plus 2 round-trips of a hour each way . . . 4 hours drive time.

No, no, it was smarter to buy from Forma. I like buying from vendors who cater to Factory Five builders because if we don't, they won't be able to offer what we need. As others have said, it's a small specialized market served by innovative vendors who target our wishes, so I'm proud to have bought from many forum vendors. I also love this forum and it is supported by Factory Five and the vendors.

BTW, Lance, compare prices for a 3x4 sheet of 0.04 3003 from McMaster-Carr versus Onlinemetals.com.

You can, of course, "do what u want".

[fastzrex]

I have done or supervised others for sheetmetal fabrication for a number of years. I have a shear and brake in my shop which could make these parts. But my time is worth something (some may not think so ;-) on my own projects. If I was real good that day, I may be able to flush out a reasonable item in four hours or so, probably more like six hours. With material, time, and probably redoing it for a second time, I can easily see it be an easy $100 for me in real cost. So it boils down for me do I have the extra cash for a ready to fit part or do I have the time to do it.

I have purchased several vendor made items from this forum; all of them were high quality and were worth the cost to me for the value I received. Supporting vendors are important or ideas will dry up and make our project more difficult.

As you say, u do what you want.

[DMC7492]

Please remember that all the vendors are providing a custom service and all of this is a luxury! Plus the time they spend on the customer relations is probably equal to the time making these beautiful parts for us. Then we waste their time with special requests outrageous demands then we bash them for everything!!
I am very pleased to pay the higher prices for custom parts, if we don't they won't be around! There my rant!!
Now I'm heading to the shop to repair all the paint free fiberglass on the body!

[lance corsi]

I make what i can, buy what I can't. These parts are too easy to make, so again, I'll build my car & buy what I can't build. Its part of the process, IMHO.
You all are so eagert to pay high prices, I'm afraid I'm talking to the wrong crowd. Have fun with it.

[flynntuna]

I make what i can, buy what I can't. These parts are too easy to make, so again, I'll build my car & buy what I can't build. Its part of the process, IMHO.
You all are so eagert to pay high prices, I'm afraid I'm talking to the wrong crowd. Have fun with it.

I have to agree with you, With this project I'm going to try and make as many parts as I have the ability to make. There are some I won't be able, to make but I'll try to try to make it first. If that makes sense . The great thing about our vendors, and other builders for that matter is they developed parts I wouldn't have though that I needed. Thus making everyone's build better. The cost / benefit argument is a valid one , especially if time is an issue (not so much for me) I get that. If they have a sale on these I might reconsider , but right now I'll have to pass.

[bbjones121]

Do these seal off to the front side vents to allow someone to cut the rear front well on top? The upper area of the wheel well openings serve as vents for the radiator. Does that make any sense? Basically if we could use a venturi effect on the side of the car and had an air path to the front compartment, we could suck air out the front door/fender gap.

[Doug @ Forma]

Here's an update on the FormaCars fender liners. Since we launched them, we have put some hard miles on our shop 818S with the liners installed. Though we measured and calculated the suspension travel, we have discovered a small amount of interference between the fender liners and the upper ball joint at the end of travel. This is obviously not desirable, so they have been redesigned to eliminate this interference. We have prototyped the new design and physically ran the suspension through its full range of motion to verify clearance.

Here are some pictures of the new design alongside the original as well as one of the 3D printed prototype installed in our 818S.

716097160871610

As you can see, the new design has a peak above the upper control arm to clear the ball joint. We also took the opportunity to push these up as high as the fender shape will allow in hopes to accommodate the Track ride height. With Street ride height there is still an inch of clearance under the liner at full compression, which should be just enough clearance for the Track height. However, we have not driven the car at Track height, so we can't say for certain.

The new parts are in stock and ready for shipment. Customers who have received the early design have all been contacted and will be receiving a replacement set. All outstanding and future orders will receive the updated design.

Because the new design is more complex and requires additional tooling, the manufacturing cost is greater. Our selling price for the new design will be going up to $185. We'll be holding off on the increase until next week in order to accommodate anybody who has been "on the fence" about getting a set. Any orders placed by 8/6 will get the new liners at the old price of $159, shipped. If you were thinking of these act now and take advantage of this discount.

We apologize for any inconvenience this may have caused, and look forward to our customers' feedback on the new design.

[AZPete]

Though I love the old design of these liners, FormaCars is shipping me a new set, for free, even though I never asked. How about that for solid customer service?

Last week I said I'd drive an hour to show my 818C to a guy interested in starting a build. It was one of the very few rainy days here in the AZ desert, so I carefully slogged along a freeway and through flowing intersections. I was pleased that I only had a leak around the windshield and my wipers worked well. The next day I gathered some towels and detailer to clean the front compartment, but it was still clean thanks to the FormaCars fender liners! My "old design" fender liners have no interference but my ride height is set to 5". If you are thinking of these, strike now. They really work well.

[Frank818]

I'll strike!!

Doug, one question, how far on the outside of the top fender do they go? I have ZeroDB's fender louvers right on top and I'd like to know if there's a chance it can interfere.
I can measure how far from the inside top fender lip the louvers are, that way you could tell me?

[tgf05354]

Just ordered mine Doug. Been on my wish list for a while.

[07FIREBLADE]

If anyone wants my new set that is coming send me an offer. I didn't ask and I dont really want to install them since I already spent the money PCing my current set...

[metros]

I also felt the need to comment on the excellent customer service. They could have very easily just updated the design for new customers without sending replacements to the original purchasers. Thanks!

[taco20]

If anyone wants my new set that is coming send me an offer. I didn't ask and I dont really want to install them since I already spent the money PCing my current set...

PM'd you

[STiPWRD]

We'll be holding off on the increase until next week in order to accommodate anybody who has been "on the fence" about getting a set. Any orders placed by 8/6 will get the new liners at the old price of $159, shipped. If you were thinking of these act now and take advantage of this discount.
ok, ok, you pushed me over, I can't pass up a discount!

[Doug @ Forma]

Thanks for the kind words everyone. For us it was a no brainer, we'd have been disappointed had we purchased them and found them dented from the ball joint, so replacing them was simply the right thing to do.


I'll strike!!

Doug, one question, how far on the outside of the top fender do they go? I have ZeroDB's fender louvers right on top and I'd like to know if there's a chance it can interfere.
I can measure how far from the inside top fender lip the louvers are, that way you could tell me?

It's about 4" at the front and 2" at the rear, and a straight line in between. See the pics below:

7165071649

[AZPete]

If anyone wants my new set that is coming send me an offer. I didn't ask and I dont really want to install them since I already spent the money PCing my current set...

Geez, FormaCars sends you an improved set for free and you steal a sale from them. As is often said, no good deed goes unpunished. :(

[Kyle @ Forma]

Thanks for your participation, folks. All orders have been shipped, and we eagerly await some real-world feedback!

The new price is now in place on our website.

[07FIREBLADE]

Just gonna sit on my shelf since it would cost me 2x as much as they are worth to install. After I powder coat them and recharge my AC since my hoses come through the fender. Plus I've spent a pretty penny picking up there wipers this weekend. ��

[NTGuru]

For those of you that are complaining about price. These are a fully engineered product. prototyped, and tested.
cars are 3d scanned and the place is full of engineers. While i personally know these guys, there is a lot of work to bring a limited audience product to market. Look at herbs custom door panels for a mk4 roadster, hundreds of dollars, russ thompsons parts the same, Levy racings billet control arms (1300 a set). By the way, FormaCars parts actually fit unlike ffr's. i just spent 4 hours fitting door sills on a customers car at a reasonable labor rate that is hundreds of dollars in labor. Time is the one and only thing that you cannot replace when building a car. if there is a vendor that makes a part that will save a lot of time because it is well thought out and actually fits, it actually costs you less.

End rant...;-)