Srobinsonx2 Bodywork

[Duke]

Looking good. Two suggestions:

1. Stay out of the hard to reach areas. Don't bother sanding them unless you have the tools to reach it. It won't be noticeable.
2. Before you sand anymore polish the inside of the door out and see how you like it. Learn on it before you get into the main body areas.

Your call on how many times you want to swap paper grids. Just be careful to not burn through sanding. I'm assuming you have 3 or 4 coats of clear on (e.g. a little extra for the first time). Personally, I usually do 1500, 2000, 3000, but everyone's different in what they like.

[weendoggy]

DA Bat has a problem? Who'da thunk that was even poscible. he'sa gonna be a star...wait he already is. I wanna know if he's advertising the use of a DA in his name? No worries mate, we come from the same mother and different fathers, or, was it the other way around. I forget a lot these days. Gonna start a new paragraph.

Mr. Robinsonxtacy, you are doing just fine. Not too many would take the time and guidance, even if it's confusing, to take on the task at hand. A lot is trial and error but you have surpassed more than some would admit. Once you start the polishing aspect and get the hang of it, you will be rewarded of all the work you've do e. Just don't rush that part just like you've done so far.

I use a small 3" orbital for the areas that are tight. You may have to use some strong elbow grease as well I you can still find it. Maybe eBay has some.

[j.miller]

:QUOTE=Duke;288922]71544

You know we love yea, low hanging fruit on a Monday.[/QUOTE]

Really !!!Gonna go there !!! I'm 58 years old and my "FRUIT" is hanging exactly where it should be ! here's a selfie "psych" !...like I need that kind of trouble.:rolleyes:

Duke makes a very, VERY, good point...don't sand where you can't polish. Unfortunately you don't know where those places are just yet...other then the one you just found. I use a small 2.5 in foam pad on a little hand air polisher. easy on the edges (I can't emphasize that enough ) I will tell you this: When I start polishing I do the edges first (about 2in all the way around) then I can polish the center without going to the edge every time. The reason I do this is so I only have to concentrate where my leading and trailing edge of the pad is for a short time instead of the whole time I am polishing....."new pair of giraffes"

Stick with the 1000 it cuts faster (honest). Where you run into trouble is breaking through the peel. It take a lot to work your way down to flat. The heavier the grit, the flatter the cut. Ditch the 1200. Go 1000 to 1500. If you want this thing "smooth" you need to take "ALL" the peel out with the 1000. Trying to shave any texture with 1500 is way to much work and you actually run the risk of over sanding ...say it with me "THE EDGES". Once you have done the 1500 try doing a little buffing. All clears are different. HOK clear can be polished after 1200 because it's a softer clear. Other clears need to be sanded to a finer grit. I would suspect the clear you used is a "softer" clear. Heat is an enemy so keep it moving.

Being summer I would stick to polishing early morning and late evening, if you can, when it's 85 or under. If you chose to do the edges my way you can cut your speed down to 1000 rpm and take your time. When you move to the center bump it back up to 1400rpm. In the front fender valleys I climb inside the buck, remove the front handle (cause it is just awkward in that area) and grip the front of the polisher with my left hand for control....Never...I say NEVER do any "hold my beer " freestyling one handed polishing , just a disaster waiting to happen....that means no waving at the hot neighbor lady walking her little shiz headed dog past the garage (you don't want to know how I know) as you run the polisher.

Lastly (for today) pay attention to how long it takes to shine up an area, then duplicate that over the rest of the car. If you have sanded everything the same there is no reason it shouldn't all polish the same. Drives me nuts to see guys polish a little spot and wipe it off over and over and over and...you get the point (it's a time suck ).




DUKE ! Better?;)

Weendoggy ! That selfie is comin your way !:cool:

[j.miller]

I'm gonna be on the road for about 12 days. I'll try to check in. Call if you need to (I'll be a little north of you in Benton). Do me a favor....DON'T LET THESE GUYS BESMIRCH MY GOOD NAME WHILE I'M GONE....I can do that on my own when I get back...Cheers...da Bat

[srobinsonx2]

I'll do my best Jeff but I have seen how these guys are. They don't cut anyone much slack. It seems to me that you must have used up what ever slack you had, a long time ago. :D

Have fun in Benton. I assume you mean Arkansas just south of Little rock. I lived in south Arkansas for a few years. You are a long way from the left coast.....be careful in razorback country.

I will post some buffing pics tonight. I have some smaller pads (3") coming so I can get the tight areas. Just won't sand those areas in the future. That just means less I have to sand and buff so no complaints from me. I will try not to bother you on your trip (but if I get completely wrapped around the axle I might give you a ring). I bet these guys can keep me between the ditches while your gone. As long as they focus on the problem at hand and not on less than PG rated back alley stories that make us question the personal judgment of all involved. :p

Thanks everyone. This group does feel more like friends than strangers on the internet. Maybe someday I can meet some of you and thank you personally for the help.

Shannon

[srobinsonx2]

Did my first buff test. I am impressed with how shiny the clear can get after making it so dull with the sand paper. Here is a shot of my tools

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71620&d=1501630140

I currently have a wool pad and a black pad to match the first two steps in the 3M Perfect-It EX system. I started with the wool pad and #1 of the 3M system. I put a little compound on the panel (quarter sized maybe), sprayed a little water on the pad (just so it wouldn't start off dry in some spots), used the pad to spread the compound around, and then started the buffing. I began at 1000 rpms to start and buffed for about 15-20 seconds. I cleaned the panel with water and a microfiber towel to check. Jeff told me not to do this but since this was my first test I didn't want to go too far. I won't do this check once I dial in my buffing technique and time. That first 15 seconds took out about 95% of the sanding scratches. I put down some more compound and used the same process but only went about 10 seconds. All sanding scratches were gone and only circular swirl marks were visible. They were really small but noticeable. With the panel clean, I then switched to the black foam pad, applied some #2 polishing compound, wet the pad with my spray bottle of water, spread the compound around with the pad, and buffed for another 15-20 seconds. Stopped, cleaned, inspected and about 95% good. Repeated for about 10 seconds and all the swirl marks were gone. Here is my initial first look

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71619&d=1501630130

Not bad so I took a picture where there was a reflection. Sorry but that included my ugly mug.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71618&d=1501630119

I also got a flash light and took a picture about 3-4 inches from the panel. If you look close you can see some very slight swirl marks.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71617&d=1501630107

Nothing bad and I could probably live with it but I want to do this right. I will pick up a blue pad and the #3 ultra fine polish tomorrow and give that area one final pass. That should get it all. I also sanded a small area by hand. I used a small piece of an old T shirt. It worked ok but I can tell you this, I don't want to hand buff very much. I can handle a few small areas but nothing more.

I didn't take a picture of it but the wool pad put out a lot of lint. It made a mess when combined with the compound. I am going to try a foam pad made to mimic the wool. I hear it will heat up faster so I will have to be careful.

Thoughts and critique is welcome

[Bguetter]

I've really enjoyed reading and following this thread. Back in 2004 i did all the bodywork on my MK3 roadster up to color and clear. I chickened out and had a pro finish it for me. Your work looks outstanding, you should be very proud!

[srobinsonx2]

I've really enjoyed reading and following this thread. Back in 2004 i did all the bodywork on my MK3 roadster up to color and clear. I chickened out and had a pro finish it for me. Your work looks outstanding, you should be very proud!

Bguetter,

Thanks for the kind words. It is a lot of nerve racking work but not unboable. Thanks for forging the way and giving guys like me a good foundation of knowledge to build on. Our success is based on yours.

Shannon

[Duke]

Looking good. Not sure if you are using the buffer screw in handle or not, but it helps with arm fatigue. It doesn't look like it's screwed in sitting on the bench, but it could just be on the left side.

Overall, polishing looks great. Keep up the good work.

[weendoggy]

I tend to use the foam pads because I feel I have better control when buffing. I tried wool and didn't like the "grip". Just a personal preference, plus you won't have any lint flying around. Remember, it can always be fixed.

[srobinsonx2]

Thanks weekdoggy and Duke.

Duke, I am using a handle. It does help a lot.

weendoggy,

I don't have a foam pad to handle the first stage of the buffing compound and have only used the wool pad. I guess I don't know any better and the wool works ok.

I got the passenger door completed this evening. It has taken me a long time because I am stopping, cleaning, inspecting, and just generally going real slow. This is my test to see how buffing is going to work. Here is the final product. Sorry, it is an indoor picture and doesn't show much. Not even sure why I am posting this. I guess just so I can officially say it is buffed.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71728&d=1501725421

I tried something on the front of the panel to help me protect against burning an edge. I ran fine line tape along the edge prior to sanding. I then wet sanded with 1000 grit followed by 1500 grit. I then removed the tape and buffed. My thought was without sanding scratches right at the edge I wouldn't have to spend alot of buffing time and effort right at the edge. It worked ok but I am not sure I really need to do this. Here is the sanding set up.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71727&d=1501725412

I think I understand now what people mean by the leading vs trailing edge of the buffer. At least here is what I think it means and how I am buffing the edges. Here is a pic of my buffer.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71729&d=1501725430

If you can imagine the buffer as a face on a clock, the removable handle on the left is at 9 oclock, the body of the buffer is at 6 oclock and so on. Now, the buffer rotates clockwise. So, I always orient the buffer so that the edge I am working is on the right hand side or at the 3 oclock position. I then slightly angle the buffer so that the 10-12 o clock position is firmly on the panel and the 4-6 oclock position is just lightly touching the panel. I then move the buffer to the edge of the panel and don't allow the pad to get off the panel past the 2-5 oclock locations. This ensures that the portion of the pad most in contact with the edge is always moving "off" the panel. And the pad is coming back on the panel as close to parallel as possible. I also move the buffer quicker when I get to the edge and ensure it doesn't stay on the edge very long. This has seemed to work and I had no issues on the door. Hopefully that makes sense. Chime in and let me know if I got this wrong and am in danger of messing something up.

I also picked up a ultra fine pad (light blue) and the #3 compound of the 3M Perfect-IT EX kit. I was able to get all the swirl marks out completely on the passenger door. It looks really good and I am happy.

I am estimating an hour or two to complete the driver side door. This means I might be able to knock out the deck lid and scoop Friday after work. I will then start working on the hood, and main body over the weekend. I don't think I will finish this weekend and will probably have to finish up next week. I have some runs to fix on the body and might try some new techniques. Some of the runs/sags are large. I found a different technique to address runs that uses glazing putty to surround the run,provides a good visual when the run is gone, and also protects the surrounding clear. I will document that process well and share my results.

I will keep plugging along. I am building confidence and skills with this groups help.

Send good buffing vibes my way.

Shannon

[Jeff Kleiner]

Sounds like you have it RE: "moving off the edges"... It's OK for the pad edge to be in contact as it is rotating away from/off the panel edge but it is not OK for it to be in contact as it is rotating back to the edge (remember what Miller said about tipping the buffer a few degrees---you will have it held such that the incoming edge of the pad is not in contact with the panel). Let me know if you're unsure and I'll try to play substitute teacher in da bat's absence.

Door looks good!

Jeff

[srobinsonx2]

Thanks for the confirmation JeffK. By all means please jump in and provide input. I recommend doing so even when Miller is on line. I respect your opinion and will always take advice. Plus your posts have a good chance of getting Miller stirred up and that adds to the entertainment value of this thread. I enjoy the good natured ribbing about as much as the "leranin".

I am going to attempt a run/sag removal this afternoon and am going to try the glazing putty technique. Have you ever tried that? If so, any advice?

[srobinsonx2]

Well I screwed up this evening. I was wet sanding the driver's side door today with 1000 grit. Everything was going great. My mind wondered, muscle memory took over, I guess I started going back to blocking, I sanding right on the edge of the door, and burn through. CRAP!!! I just about came unglued. My mind wondered for one minute and I now have a problem

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71775&d=1501810942

Look right at the edge where the door rolls over. I know the right thing to do. Tape off the back, hit everything untaped with at least 1000 grit, spot in some color, and reclear. I am just hoping someone has an easier fix. Any ideas?

So, I stopped working on the door after that fiasco, and thought I would try my hand at removing a major run/sag. I have two of these. This is the worst. So, I am going to show everyone how bad a painter I am. My theory when spraying clear was, I could fix a run easier than a real thin layer of clear with alot of oragne peel. So, in true amateur fashion, I err'd on the side of more is better. The result is the following:

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71778&d=1501810967

I know. It is pretty bad. So, I saw a method for removing runs which involves glazing putty. I thought I would give it a try. The idea is to cover the area with glazing putty and use it kind of as a protectant to sort of block out the area. Here is the glazing putty applied.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71777&d=1501810959

I started with 600 grit and wet sanded the area. I stopped after knocking down the high areas and switched to 1000 grit. I probably should have stayed with the 600 grit a little longer but was afraid I might get too aggressive and took the conservative route. It took a while. About an hour and 2 full sheets of 1000 grit to get this completed. Here is shot mid way through and you can see how the high spots of the run are showing through and are getting sanded down with the surrounding putty.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71776&d=1501810951

It worked pretty good, just took a long time. Here is final result. You can kind of see where the sag/run was but I think one more pass at 100 grit and then 1500 should get is smooth and good enough to buff.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71779&d=1501810974

This technique was ok and is probably best used for long runs or sags. The 600 on a paint stick is better for localized runs.

Give me some feedback on the burn through. Like I said, I am hoping for a short cut, but I know the right answer. Short cuts are just that, short cuts around doing things right.

Thanks
Shannon.

[awd-turbo]

That is a good idea w the glazing putty, almost like a guide coat.

I don't have feed back, I've been following and picking up tips from the Jeff's. I do have a question. I am about to primer so I am thinking ahead some. Da bat talked about soft and hard clear coat. Can we get some pros and cons on both those types of clear coats? Looking for climate condition, road wear, stuff like that. Sorry to thread jack, but thought it might help some people picking out paint and coatings.

[awd-turbo]

Ps... I see the shine on the head, in the picture... Gnarly

[srobinsonx2]

That is a good idea w the glazing putty, almost like a guide coat.

I don't have feed back, I've been following and picking up tips from the Jeff's. I do have a question. I am about to primer so I am thinking ahead some. Da bat talked about soft and hard clear coat. Can we get some pros and cons on both those types of clear coats? Looking for climate condition, road wear, stuff like that. Sorry to thread jack, but thought it might help some people picking out paint and coatings.

awd-turbo,

I am no expert but from what I have gathered from Miller is that the clear I used (PPG Shopline JC6700) is similar is hardness to House of Color Clear. I think he is indicating that it is a little softer. I think this because he said I should be able to cut with 1000 then 1500 and go on to buffing. He said harder clears will need 2000 grit before buffing. I tried buffing right after 1500 and it worked fine. I did a test with 1000, 1500, 2000, then buff and it appears the buffing took the same amount of time to buff out both.

Miller is out for a couple of weeks so we might not hear from him right away. I bet Jeff K, weendoggy, or Duke can provide more info than I can. I really only know what my clear is like and what I have learned here.

Thanks for following along and I hope you can learn from my mistakes. I have made plenty so you should have plenty of opportunities.

Later
Shannon

[j.miller]

Just a passin through....Never tried the glaze trick..guess it's ok. Now, for your edge sand through. Get a pinstripe brush and dip it in your base coat, run it over a slick magazine cover a couple of time to load the brush then take the brush to the edge of the door and transfer the paint on the brush to the bald spot....on the door ! If it covers the gray, mix up a little clear with no reducer, mix 50/50 base and clear....yes, color and clear with hardner (in a little container) (bottom of a dixei cup turned upside down works good) and do the same with the brush one more time. That should take care of the edge.....If you screw up putting the base on....wipe it off and try again...in fact, go pinstripe your trash can till you get the hang of it....it's called a "brush touch " good luck. talk to ya in a few days from Dallas...da Bat

[srobinsonx2]

Dang Miller. You just made my day. I had psyched myself up for a spot paint and full clear. I would say I love you, but that might be a bit much in front of this crowd. Thanks man. YOU ROCK!!!!

MAN!!! I am just so relieved. Burning through that edge had me worked up.

I am headed to Dallas this weekend to see the grandkid. If you get I trouble holler at me. I will come bail you out.

[RoadRacer]

so close!

It's not going to be long until it's all done and twinkling in the sunshine :D

(How's my GoDadGo impression? *wink*)

[j.miller]

Dang Miller. You just made my day. I had psyched myself up for a spot paint and full clear. I would say I love you, but that might be a bit much in front of this crowd. Thanks man. YOU ROCK!!!!

MAN!!! I am just so relieved. Burning through that edge had me worked up.

I am headed to Dallas this weekend to see the grandkid. If you get I trouble holler at me. I will come bail you out.




See ! The way it works is....I give you a call and we end up needing to be bailed out together. I never go to jail alone.....I HATE BANJO MUSIC !

[srobinsonx2]

RoadRacer,

Pretty good GoDadGo impression. I will have to swing by when I get done. I want to check out that 33 you are building. The only problem will be I don't think another project is in the budget right now. Once I see your hot rod, I know I will want one.

Update for all,

I am 15 weeks in and have logged 201 hours on bodywork. Won't get anything done this weekend. I am going out of town so will have to get back after it next week.

I have a plan to fix the burn through on the driver's side door. Thanks to Miller for the "short cut". I will post that process once my pin striping brushes come in. I found some on Amazon and they should be here Monday.

I got all the runs fixed on the main body. I tried three different approaches. The glazing putty technique (posted earlier), the Miller technique (800 on a paint stick), and a razor blade. I found a mix of the paint stick and razor blade worked the best. I would use 800 grit on a paint stick and focus sanding on just the run without getting into the surrounding clear. Once I knocked the run down a little, I would use a razor blade I bent a little to knock down the bulk of the run. I found that using the razor blade after the sand paper would allow the razor to bite. If I didn't the razor blade seemed to just slide over the clear without taking anything off. I would take the run down with the razor until is was almost smooth with the surrounding clear. I did this slowly and took my time.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71807&d=1501899943

If you want to see this technique in action, just check out youtube. There are few examples. It is curved to the edges don't dig into the surrounding area and it also helps focus on just the area you are working. I would then smooth everything down with the 800. Would finish the area around it with 1000 grit to smooth it down and remove any surrounding orange peel. It took a little time but was faster than the glazing putty. The putty technique would be good for long sags. The only problem was it ate up paper quickly.

So here is where I am. I have the passenger door completed (buffed and ready to go). The driver side door is sanded to 1000 grit but needs some touch up paint. The body is a little over half way done with 1000 grit. Here is a pic.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71806&d=1501899180

If you look you can see I stayed clear of the areas that would be hard to buff, wheel well lips, roll on cockpit, trunk and hood lips. I also have some sweat spots to fix. I sanded them as much as I dare. Afraid to sand too much and have some burn through. I am going to mix up a little clear and use toothpick to touch some clear in and fill the low spots. I will let that dry and then sand it smooth.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71805&d=1501899169

All this cut and buff so far has taken 12 hours. Each step seems to get easier. I hope to knock out the rest of the body, hood, and trunk during next week. Try to finish buff next weekend with a little luck. I am plugging along slowly but surely. I can see the light at the end of the tunnel. It is clouded with wet sanding muck but I can see the light.

[Scap]

I love this thread. So much inspiration and knowledge.

Gonna be a bit bittersweet when the end credits roll.

Hope it has a good Marvel-esque trailer...like maybe you tease a 33 build for the next installment. :)

Kudos to you. Makes me less nervous for when I get to this point some time in the hopefully near future.

[WIS89]

Steve-

I think it looks great, although I have to confess, I am not sure I like the white accents you have in the red in the picture above! HA

Just in case anyone misses my poor attempt at humor, the white stuff is the result of all the sanding that I am talking about. Yeah, weak sauce I know...

I have really enjoyed following along, seeing how you made it all work, as well as the feedback from the Jeffs! Those guys have helped a whole lot of people, and have really made this thread a great read on the body and paint process.

I look forward to seeing her all wrapped up!

Regards,

Steve

[Duke]

Looking good. Jeff is spot on about the burn through. Touch it up by hand and you are all set. Don't stress about it as you probably aren't yet done burning through (Sorry). It happens to everyone. When you apply the clear by hand, you can also put on an extra coat and sand down flush if need be. Just wait the typical flash times between recoat and dry times for sanding. Pin strip brushes work great, as do these things: http://www.eastwood.com/touch-up-applicators-pack-40.html?SRCCODE=PLA00020&product_id=34112&adpos=1o1&creative=179114127831&device=c&matchtype=&network=g&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIrrnSueXA1QIVRBppCh3j4QhvEAQYASAB EgIwgvD_BwE

Regarding clear and 'hardness'. I've sprayed various Dupont and PPG products. The PPG clears I have always found to be harder than the Duponts. The detailer who put on my clear bra pieces had a lot of car painting and touch up experience and told me about some new clear coat that's ceramic based. Haven't heard of it before or googled it yet, but apparently it's much harder than traditional clears. On my next car paint job I may research it a bit more and do a small spray out to see how it holds up to various abuse.

[srobinsonx2]

You are probably right Duke. I am sure I will have another burn through. I am going to wait and fix the current burn through at the end of this process.

Ceramic based clear huh? That sounds pretty high tech. If it is easier to spray then I am in.:)

Quick update. Nothing real exciting today. I was out of town all weekend and didn't make any progress until this evening. I spent about 2 1/2 hours sanding and buffing after work. I finished cutting the body with 1000 grit. I stayed out of the hard to buff areas. That means the valleys between the hood and fenders, hood lip, and wheel well edges. Here are a couple of pictures of the body. I don't think the unsanded areas will be a real problem. They aren't areas that show defects easily and there isn't much orange peel in these areas. Let me know what you guys think. I am just trying to minimize issues during buffing.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71953&d=1502159528

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71954&d=1502159539

I also knocked out the deck lid. I sanded with 1000 grit, 1500 grit, and buffed with all three stages of the 3M process. I think it looks really good. Sorry for the indoor pic but you get an idea by the quality of the reflection.

I am getting better and more confident. The deck lid took about an hour just for reference. Tomorrow will be more exciting. I am going to try and touch up the sweat spots in the clear. That way they can dry and we can see how they look after being smoothed down.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71959&d=1502160227

[awd-turbo]

If I missed it I am sorry, but how much paint and clear coat did you end up using??? I picked up sealer yesterday, I am getting ready to start the big show.. I didn't want to come up short.

[srobinsonx2]

If I missed it I am sorry, but how much paint and clear coat did you end up using??? I picked up sealer yesterday, I am getting ready to start the big show.. I didn't want to come up short.

No problem awd-turbo. I bought a gallon of sealer (JP335) and that was way too much. I tried to get a smaller amount based on the advice of Jeff Miller but they didn't have any in stock and I would have had to wait about a week. Didn't want to do that so bought the gallon. Could have gotten by with quart but would buy two just in case something goes wrong.

The base coat I bought was JBP and I bought a gallon of the main color and quart of the stripe color. Both were a 1:1 mix ratio and that was plenty. I probably have 1/3 of a gallon of the main color and a little less than half the stripe color.

I bought a gallon of clear (5 L to be exact) and the required catalyst. I have a little less than 1/2 left of both. The clear I bought (JC6700) didn't come in smaller amounts.

Hope this helps. Post some pics when you get done. Painting was nerve racking for me but fun to learn something new. Plus you can say you did it. Exciting times.

[srobinsonx2]

No big items completed tonight. I did get the sweat spots filled and the burned edge fixed. I mixed up a small batch of clear and used special applicators to apply the clear. Here is a shot of the sweat spots filled in. I just dabbed a little in each spot. I will have to smooth these out once they dry. I will give them 24 hours.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71991&d=1502242658

Here is a pic of the applicators.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71993&d=1502243140

The applicators worked great. Super easy to apply a little and it easily filled the low spot.

I also used the pin striping brush touch up technique Miller suggested to fix the edge I burned through. Here is the brush with the small batch of color and clear.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71989&d=1502242636

I used a magazine like Miller suggested to get the right amount of paint on the brush. I applied a coat of color and made sure I had coverage. I had good coverage and then applied a mix of clear and color. Miller suggested this so I followed his sage advice. He didn't really say how to mix them so I just did 50/50. Applied one coat of the clear/color and it came out pretty good. Here is pic of the finished product. I will let it dry and then buff the door. I will get a pic of that when I am finished to show everyone.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71992&d=1502243131

Tomorrow I am going to cut and buff the hood and try my hand at smoothing out the sweat spot repairs. More updates to follow. I am taking off work Friday and will try to knock this thing out.

[1volfan]

srobinsonx2 I would first like to thank you for this excellent build thread and second, commend you on doing a GREAT JOB! Most folks get in a hurry and skimp on sanding between all the build coats of filler and primer and then regret it once they get to this stage of a paint job. I don't think you'll have too many regrets when it's all said and done. I've only painted 10 or 11 cars/trucks but I painted commercial jets for 13 years and for a year or so we were turning out a Boeing 757 every 7 days. That included stripping the old finish, prep and paint. When you pay someone to paint a car you're basically paying for all the time spent sanding/prepping. Painting is the easiest part! One trick I learned was if you accidentally double spray an area, and catch it just as it starts to form a run, you can take a piece if 2" masking tape about 8-10 inches long, and form it in a "u" shape and lightly blot the run before it starts to flowing. It will leave a rough orange peel and if you give it time to tack up you can lightly spray over it and flow out some of the orange peel. It is much better to sand out rough orange peel than cutting runs and sags with a blade. Keep up the excellent work!

[srobinsonx2]

Thanks 1volfan. I just hope I can help others. This has been fun. I have learned a bunch. Like I have said before, I could not have done it without the help from the great group of folks on this site.

[Duke]

Nice work.

To save paint when mixing up small batches I like to use disposable plastic eye droppers. You can count the drops to get perfect small batch ratios. It's helpful when you only have a little paint left, or are saving a half can for another paint job.

[srobinsonx2]

I have a big problem. I was trying to remove the sweat spots today on the passenger rear fender. I had sanded on an area for a while with 1000 grit and had just got the spots removed. Was a little worried about removing too much clear. I wanted to buff it to see how that small area would look. Sanded with 1500 grit. Buffed lightly with the 1st compound. This is what I saw

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=72069&d=1502325543

Red on my wool pad is not good at all. I looked really close and think I can see the spot where the clear is gone. I tried to take a picture but couldn't get it to show up. If I get in the right light, I can just make out the area. WHAT SHOULD I DO?????? Can I spot in some clear and sand the area smooth? I also thought I could tape up to the edge of the stripe, and the back of the door (right in the corner) and spray the whole back fender. I am not a happy camper.

Hopefully Miller or Kleiner can chime in with some words of wisdom. Do any of you other guys have advice?

[bobl]

That is a bummer! Curios to see what the pros have to say.

[alv69]

had it happen to me and a pro painter told me to dust some color lightly over the area and the I cleared the whole panel with a couple of coats.

[srobinsonx2]

had it happen to me and a pro painter told me to dust some color lightly over the area and the I cleared the whole panel with a couple of coats.

I am afraid you are right. In preparation for something like this I had watch a couple of videos. Most say exactly what you have said. There are a couple of references into spotting in clear. It sounds like a process that requires quite a bit of skill. From what I can tell, it requires a reducer to allow the spot repair to "melt" into the surrounding clear. Probably beyond my skill set. I can easily spot repair the color burn through. I had to do that on the underside of the hood when a bug decided to do the happy dance in my fresh clear. The question I have is where to do I stop "the panel". I think some obvious breaks would be the stripes along the back. The one area that might show will be where I stop at the door. If I tape right in the corner, it might not be very visible.

I guess this is all part of learning. Painful way to learn. How else does a guy with a day job going to learn how to paint, cut and buff without making a few mistakes? I am sure I can fix it, just a little frustrating.

[Duke]

What I typically do: If it's a full panel (door/hood/etc) Lightly sand with 800 or 1000 and hit it with 2 more coats of clear. If it's rolled into another body (e.g. one of our fenders that has a one piece body) I sand over a larger area, usually most of the quarter panel and try to end it near a harder transition/body contour. Mix up a batch of clear (usually reduced by 20-40% or so) and lay two coats down. First coat I go shallow of the sanding edge (4-6 inches shallow of my sanding marks), second coat overlap and go 2-4 inches from the edge. This layers it down a little better rather than making it a hard transition and a little easier to sand flat again.

What not to do: Just leave it and polish it out. Your clear is the protection. The color offers zero protection from the elements.

Keep at it and don't stress about it. It's normal actually to screw up a lot on your first time, especially solo. It's how you learn. By the time you are done it will look perfect (even though you will be able to pick out the spots you know aren't 100%).

[carlewms]

All of us that read this thread are just in awe of your work and willingness to share the ups and downs. With the aid of the experts and your very obvious skills this challenge will also be overcome ... Hang in there and keep posting PLEASE so we all learn.

Thanks Mucho,

Carl

[DaveS53]

The idea that colored paint must be cleared is incorrect. Some urethane paints may be base coats only, but single stage urethane paints are available, particularly in nonmetallic colors.

My black car is essentially a single stage paint - two coats of straight black, followed by 4-5 coats of black mixed 50/50 with clear. That advice is from Ridler award winning painter Charlie Hutton. The black paint can also be applied without any clear coats, but of course you have to put enough coats on to insure that you won't buff through.

Obviously, if you're going to stripe a car, clear coat is a must.

[DadofThree]

I am not a happy camper.






http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71954&d=1502159539


http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71959&d=1502160227


Actually, I think you should be thrilled with your results - Buffing problems and all. I have enjoyed this thread and have learned a lot. I hope I have the courage to do the work that you are doing. As a reminder, look what you've accomplished on your first attempt. AMAZING!

Keep your chin up!

Great Job!

[Gromit]

Keep reminding yourself it all can be fixed... what a great accomplishment to be able to say.. built it and painted it myself. yes it's bummer that you have to redo a small part of already difficult work but remind yourself each time you go back over a step you are better and better. go back and look at what you had going on when you where spraying primer and starting into sealer and color. your skills are better now than then. Keep going your an inspiration to any one thinking of taking on a DIY paint job.

Chris aka Gromit

[srobinsonx2]

Thanks for the pep talk guys. This bodywork has been a roller coaster for sure. Some really high points and some pretty discouraging ones. I have tried my best to document all my mistakes so you guys get most of the lows. Maybe, just maybe someone can learn from my errors. I have enjoyed the learning process but it is painful at times. So thanks for the words of encouragement. With all that said......MY DADDY DIDN'T RAISE NO QUITTER!!! So it's time to suck it up, put on my big boy paints, roll up my sleeves, and finish this thing.

Here we go. Talked to Miller. Man that guy is great. He confirmed I need to spot repair the color and then clear the whole panel. We talked about taping off the car and some tricks on that process. More to follow. First, I was able to get a picture of the burn through. Look right at the light reflection. I hit everything with 800 wet to give it a good tooth for the color and clear to bite onto.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=72120&d=1502411743

I then taped off the car, swept and mopped the floor, and wiped the panel down (no solvent) with just water.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=72118&d=1502411725

I also set up some lights. I don't think I am going to cover the floor. The turbine sprayer I am using doesn't produce much overspray, plus the floor could use a little shine. I also followed the advice of Miller on taping off the edges. I ran some regular masking tape about an 1/8" for the edge of the stripe and the corner of the panel where it meets the door seal. I then put a piece of 1/4" fine line tape from the edge of the stripe/corner and over the edge of the masking tape. I left the ends of the fine line tape sticking up. The plan is to clear just barely up to the line (1/2 a pass) on the first coat of clear. I will then put a full coat right up to the edge on the second round. After the second coat, I will immediately put the gun down and remove the fine line tape. This will allow the clear to "flow out" and sort of round off on the edge. This will help minimize a hard clear line. I will let everyone know how it goes. Here is a pic of the tape if someone needs that to help visualize what I am talking about.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=72119&d=1502411734

It is almost 8 PM. I am going to let it cool off a little bit more here. My reducer is designed for 75-85F. Once the garage and panels hit 85 F, I will tack off the panel and spot repair the burn through with color. I will then shut off the lights, turn on the single bug light and shut up the garage for the night. Clean the gun and get some rest. I will get up early in the morning and spray the clear. I then need to let that dry good before buffing. I will roll it outside once it is past the dust period. The hot Texas sun will help it cure. While I wait, I will finish the cut and buff on the drivers door and hood. I can then mount the hood scoop, finish polishing the aluminum side vents and maybe do some cleaning on the chasis. If all goes well and I don't have anymore mistakes, I will finish the bodywork this weekend. Then I am onto assembly. I am ready to drive this thing. LET"S DO THIS!!!

[srobinsonx2]

I got color down on the burn through. It didn't take long. I put on one light coat to just cover the area. I then feathered in around the area. I would say I want 8-10" around the spot to kind of blend in the spot the best I could. It has already flashed and should be good for some clear. I want to wait until morning when the temps are in the 70's before I spray clear. I had a hard time with orange peel when I sprayed in the evenings. Not to mention the bugs......OH THE BUGS! Here is picture of the color applied.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=72133&d=1502416387

I forgot to show you guys my new toy. I was using a handheld LED light to check my paint work, swirls, buffing etc. It wasn't great and certainly didn't mimic sun light. I found this light on Amazon and it is really nice. Rechargeable, 400 lumens, and mimics sunlight. It was about $65 but worth it for paint work.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=72134&d=1502416394

Here is link on Amazon

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01CHP76CU/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Hopefully I have some glass smooth clear to show you guys tomorrow. I plan on mixing and spraying clear just like before. 2:1:0.5. I am going to add that little bit of reducer like before. It seemed to help. Oh, I am going to watch for sweat. I have a plan for that as well. Wish me luck.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Been absent for a few days... Sorry about the burn through :mad: I had to reclear a quarter once (don't ask) and broke at the stripes and then blended at the tight radius below the door opening like you're doing. You'll never know after a cut and buff. Didn't think about lifting the tape while the clear was still laying down. That Miller has some pretty good tricks for a guy who has rocks in his head ;) Good luck---I'll keep my fingers crossed that the bugs stay away!

Jeff

[srobinsonx2]

I got the burn through on the quarter panel fixed. I got up early this morning (4:30 AM) and applied the clear on top of the color I sprayed last night. It turned out pretty good. The spot repair on the color is invisible. I can not tell where I started and stopped so I am very happy with that. The clear had a slight bit of orange peel and I will explain that in a bit. I ended up apply three coats of clear just for safety. Here is a picture of the finished product.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=72135&d=1502448166

Here is what I did on the clear. Last night after providing you guys an update, I thought more about the clear application. During the full clear application a few weeks ago, I used the 2:1:0.5 ratio. It worked great for orange peel, actually I had very little and could have lived with what I had. I had about the same level of orange peel as my Toyota truck. The only difference is my orange peel was not consistent. A little more in one area and almost none in another. I found that the horizontal surfaces allowed the clear to flow out better and had little to no issues, really smooth. The vertical surfaces had a little orange peel but if I tried to get them smooth they would develop some runs and sags. Jeff Miller told me that using reducer with my clear would help prevent orange peel but made the clear "saggy". He was right. The difference between a little orange peel, a perfect application, and a sag is just so small. A professional with years of experience can probably get this right most of the time but takes perfect technique. An amateur in a garage applying clear for the first time can not. So after stewing on this last night, I decided to use a little less reducer to see if that helped with runs and sags. I used a 2:1:0.25 ratio. That seemed to help prevent sags/runs and gave me a good chance for less orange peel. You guys were right, I am getting better with each application.

Hopefully no more burn through. Wish me luck

[j.miller]

Well done brother. I was hoping to catch you early enough to warn you that shooting clear over 800 is going to make your clear "Loose" because it won't have the bite it did when you shot it the first time....good thinking on your part to slow it down. What you just did is the same thing I was doing Denton (only you have much better light) I was spotting in the same Qt panel....ok, here's the rub......I RAN MINE ! yep, two big sags over the same place I was spotting in. I will tell you WHAT ! Between the temp and the humidity that clear was hammer dry the next morning. I got up and sanded out my runs, did my 1000, drove to OK and delivered a car, came back for the 1500/3000, buff and headed for the border. Proud of you brother. We will meet one day.....O-Ring and I have already talked about defiling the TCC with our presence and throwing you under the bus in the same visit sound like a grand idea. Keep it coming and as always you are welcome to call. xoxo ...da Bat

[JRD56]

Excellent Thread and very timely for me. I'll be starting my body work next week and this is a good reference not only on the techniques, but also the sequence, material and tools. I love the lessons learned and advice from the others. I've painted a few cars in the past but never a fiberglass body. Thanks for being so frank with the issues you had and I'm hoping I can avoid them but I'm sure I'll have issues of my own. Nice work, you should be proud.

JD

[srobinsonx2]

Well, I am almost done. Took off work Friday and knocked out the remaining panels. I then got up early this morning and hit the cut and buff on the body. I had already sanded everything (except the resprayed back passenger panel) with 1000 grit. Knocked down the 1000 grit sanding scratches with 1500 grit. Followed that with the 3M buffing system. Went pretty well. Here are a couple of pictures.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=72219&d=1502563590

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=72218&d=1502563581


I have two small edges where I had a little burn through. Nothing bad. I will use my pin striping brushes and previously posted technique to touch those up. One is on the drivers door and the other on the hood. I also have one little area where I did get all the buffing scratches out. It is on the back of the cockpit roll on the passenger side. I am going to touch that up before mounting the body. The body cut and buff took about 11 hours total. I practiced on the other panels so it went a little faster than before.

I have two minor problems that I have not resolved. Both are sags that are still noticeable. I did not completely remove then because I was scared of burn through the clear and having to repaint again. One is on the hood and the other is just behind the side louver on the drivers side. I am not sure what I am going to do about them. Worst case is I will live with them. I really don't want to mess this up at this stage. I know this may sound like heresy for some of you, but I might consult a professional and see if they might be able to safely address these two sags. I know, I have come this far but I feel good about what I have accomplished and don't mind asking for some help. If no one is willing to fix these small issues. I will be fine with them. It was my first paint job and I will be proud of it, flaws and all.

With that, I think this is about it for the bodywork thread. I might come back and update this if I find anymore issues. Thanks to all those that followed along and offered advice. This is as much your success as mine. I could not have done it without the forum. A special thanks to Jeff Miller. He was kind enough to reach out and offer help over the phone. With out his guidance this certainly would not have been possible. Thanks Jeff. I know we have never met but I consider you a friend. Come on down for the TCC. I plan on going next year. Would love to meet you. Hopefully we won't get into too much trouble.

Shannon. Now back to the build thread. Let's get this thing done.

[carlewms]

She looks fantastic and thank you so much for the excellent documentation of the process as well as the ups and downs.

Since I am planning to use a 5 Stage Turbine System ... could you possible summarize your lessons learned and the settings you used at each stage of the application.

Again, you should be very very proud of the outcome ... it is inspiring and wonderful.

Very Respectfully,

Carl

[edwardb]

Awesome thread and the results look great. You have every right to be proud of what you were able to get done! It's especially cool that you were able to get two gurus involved sharing their knowledge and techniques. Win-Win!

I think this thread accomplished to things: 1) Gives a lot of great information and a roadmap for those want to do their own paint, 2) Convinced the rest of us why we have the pros do the work, even though it isn't cheap. I say that in the most positive and complimentary way possible. :)

[srobinsonx2]

She looks fantastic and thank you so much for the excellent documentation of the process as well as the ups and downs.

Since I am planning to use a 5 Stage Turbine System ... could you possible summarize your lessons learned and the settings you used at each stage of the application.

Again, you should be very very proud of the outcome ... it is inspiring and wonderful.

Very Respectfully,

Carl

Carl,

Thanks for the kind words. I will do my best and try to explain my turbine set up. I am no expert and used the advice from Jeff Miller to fine tune my set up and technique. I essentially practiced on some poster board until I got a pattern like Miller explained. I then sprayed a couple of pints of paint practicing.

There really wasn't much adjusting of equipment. Three actually, two on the gun and one on the turbine unit. My turbine sprayer is an Apollo Power 5. The turbine unit really only has one adjustment. That is a high and low power setting. I found that the low power setting help with overspray. So that was how I sprayed the 2K primer, sealer, paint, and clear. I was using the Apollo Atomizer 7500 gun and it only has two adjustments. The gun set up I determined by trial and error. My goal was to hold the gun 6-8" from the panel and get a pattern that was about 8" wide with as little overspray as possible. As a general rule I found this was possible if I set the fan pattern at 50% between full open and closed. The flow needle I set to one full turn open. Here is the what I used with each product

JP202 2K primer, JH302 hardener with JP507 slow reducer: 1.8 mm nozzle and needle.

JP335 sealer, JH302, with JP507 reducer: 1.5 mm nozzle and needle

JBP basecoat with JP507 reducer: 1.5 mm nozzle and needle

JC6700 HS European Clear with JH6720 hardener: 1.5 mm nozzle and needle

The set up and testing I did is in post #159. It might be a good way to get a visual of the adjustments. The only real deviation from the set up above was with the clear. I opened the needle just past one full turn on coats 2-3. That seemed to allow a smoother finish. Really the technique is the most important. Miller told me to get a set up I liked and learn to spray with it. He told me that different painters have a different set up and learn to be successful with it. So that is what I did. I really just got something I thought would work and learned to spray that. I got better with each application. The clear is the was the hardest to spray. Everything below the base and clear seemed pretty easy to address. Sand and repeat. The base coat was the easiest to spray. Clear was the hardest but really because it is the layer most visible. Every flaw shows up in the clear.

That is what I learned. Sorry for rambling. Hope that helps. PM me if you have any questions. Again, I am no expert but I am willing to talk through what I have learned.

[srobinsonx2]

Awesome thread and the results look great. You have every right to be proud of what you were able to get done! It's especially cool that you were able to get two gurus involved sharing their knowledge and techniques. Win-Win!

I think this thread accomplished to things: 1) Gives a lot of great information and a roadmap for those want to do their own paint, 2) Convinced the rest of us why we have the pros do the work, even though it isn't cheap. I say that in the most positive and complimentary way possible. :)

Thanks edwardb. Your build threads are legendary and the gold standard for documenting immaculate work. Referring to my thread as "awesome" is a real compliment. I will say, painting is a lot of work and quite a bit of stress. But it feels to good to see the final product, even with a few flaws. With realistic expectations (you are going to have some flaws), it is a rewarding experience.

[srobinsonx2]

One final update. I forgot to provide the final tally on hours........226 of bodywork.

[wareaglescott]

Great thread. I don't think it will be complete when until we see the body mounted on the finished car. I am sure you will do a graduation thread but add some complete pictures in this thread as well. It will be good for future viewers to be able to see the finished project.
I really commend you for tackling this and documenting it so well for everyone to see the entire process. Well done!

[alv69]

what color red is that it's a real nice color with those stripes?

[srobinsonx2]

what color red is that it's a real nice color with those stripes?

The red is a Chrysler color called Blaze Red Crystal Pearl. The paint code is PRH/ARH.

That wasn't the first color I selected. I had originally chosen Ford's Ruby Red Metallic, paint code RR. When I found out it was a 3 stage paint I felt like that might be a bit much for a first paint job. I then spent about an hour at my paint supply house looking at paint chips. I found PRH, and it was real close to RR. Probably doesn't have the same depth or pop but it was doable for me.

[Vette1972]

Absolutely a great job! Be very proud of your work. Congrats! Now finish it up and drive on.

[alv69]

thank you

[DadofThree]

Great Job!! Beautiful Work!

[j.miller]

Really, that's it......we're done here:confused:....but,,,,,,Butt,,,,,BUTT !!!! I GOT NO PLACE TO GO:(....oh! somebody left this bottle of rum, and it's full....I'M GOOD !!! catch ya on the flip side !....da Bat

[weendoggy]

Really, that's it......we're done here:confused:....but,,,,,,Butt,,,,,BUTT !!!! I GOT NO PLACE TO GO:(....oh! somebody left this bottle of rum, and it's full....I'M GOOD !!! catch ya on the flip side !....da Bat

You are definitely "An Officer and a Gentleman" now, I want you D.O.R.

[carlewms]

Thanks so much for the additional information ... I am getting close (I think) to starting and I plan on using your great thread as my guide.

Carl