Let's see your interior design

[Cooluser23]

I know it's early, and the car chassis may be changed, but it would be fun to see interior design concepts. The earlier we do, the better. This way, the interior design won't be neglected and be the item that screams "kit-car".

I do realize that some want a bare bones interior to meet the price goal, but for those who want a nicer interior, and are willing to pay a premium for it, this thread would be good.

Maybe we can talk Dave into offering the best interior as optional equipment not subject to the $10k base price. :cool:

[crackedcornish]

I would like something like this...light and simple
http://vintagespyders.com/gallery/images/101-0191_IMG_JPG.jpg

[kach22i]

Cup holders, and a basket or glove box in which pocket items can be tossed into.

The seats will most likely be squeezed together as shown in the photo above. See the rolling frame in the open house section.

Old fashion grab bars as seen in the Porsche 550 image above might not be a bad idea either.

[olpro]

I like the idea of this thread.
This concept is a very simple combination of the IP and console.
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[Oppenheimer]

I like the idea of this thread.
This concept is a very simple combination of the IP and console.
2647

Thats rather cool. But is something this 'different' feasible for this project? There is so much else that FFR has to accomplish with this project, and doing something that hasn't been done before or done a lot has its own challenges to overcome. My first impression is that is asking too much. If its not too much, I'd love to have something like that.

If I can't have that, I think good benchmark to shoot _above_ is the K2 Attack (will post a pic later when I have time). The 818 should at least better that interior. I'd love to see the WRX gauge 'pod' make its way over. That would go a long way to not looking like a kit. A mix of metal finishes and vinyl or leather wrapped surfaces would probably look good (leather could be optional).

I think the more OEM it looks, the better (but basic).

[olpro]

None of my sketches were done for this project. On the other hand, I like big overall concepts that drive the design (first you ideate then you sort for what is possible - and try to come up with something really original yet appropriate).
This old sketch shows a concept based on a SPHERE (original idea came from the ball turret on a B-17). Probably not doable for this car but I think it is still interesting to consider.
2648

[StatGSR]

I like the idea of this thread.
This concept is a very simple combination of the IP and console.
2647

not a fan of that look, reminds me of the pontiac solstice interior which makes me angry inside...
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT7HsMvjeSRJXRdZrn5H3zrO4Ub3ARWS o3wE0uZDXjhF1ivR4junQ

that interior alone is the reason why i would have a saturn sky before ever owning a solstice

[PhyrraM]

not a fan of that look, reminds me of the pontiac solstice interior which makes me angry inside...
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT7HsMvjeSRJXRdZrn5H3zrO4Ub3ARWS o3wE0uZDXjhF1ivR4junQ

that interior alone is the reason why i would have a saturn sky before ever owning a solstice

Also sort of reminds me of the last Toyota Supra. I thoight that car was ugly inside and out.

[thebeerbaron]

I remember sitting in a Mk IV Supra in the new car show room while my parents purchased a 94 Camry. The thing that struck me about the Supra and sticks with me to this day is how everything was driver-centric. The center stack of the dash was clearly angled towards the driver by tens of degrees. I like that idea, though I remember little else of the interior.

Still wish my parents had chosen the Supra over the Camry :)

[olpro]

This one plays the round air vents against the round gauges, on a pad-like IP.
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[ScottKoschwitz]

I definitely like the idea of a driver-centric dash. It's a feature I always liked about the older BMWs. I'm not sure if they still build them that way, but I tend to think that more modern cars are getting away from that as they incorporate video screens and touchscreen controls into their designs. I think the 818 should buck that trend and express itself as a driver-oriented interior.

[kach22i]

Just to toss something else out there; one of the reasons I liked (as a child) the early year Vettes and Mustangs is that while sitting in the front passenger seat, I could pretend or imagine that I was behind the wheel driving because I had a dash hump in front of me. It may seem silly as an adult to care about the enjoyment of some just out of diapers kid may have, but they are the future car buyers.

Similar to my uncle's dash:
http://www.corvettefever.com/featuredvehicles/corp_0808_1960_corvette_full_circle_feature/photo_07.html
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Similar to my other uncle's dash:
http://www.autoworksracing.com/68_mustang_boss_351_pro-street.htm
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The Lotus Elise has set the modern standard in my opinion of "less is more". Sadly, no passenger dash pod for the little tykes.
http://bestautodesign.com/new-sport-car-lotus-elise-club-racer
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[Cooluser23]

Please just post your designs, rather than telling me why "it won't work".
If there is a cool design we all like, it may be made. Either by FFR, or a 3rd party.

[Colvindesign]

http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/8249/interiormm.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/710/interiormm.jpg/)

[kach22i]

All my interiors were similar, and I should have taken into consideration the elbow to elbow seating arrangement with no room for a center console.

The shifter in my 1977 911 already touches the passenger's legs, I have to ask them to move their leg.

I cannot imagine the 818's cabin being any better, the center frame bar (triangle) does not help either.

[olpro]

Here’s two versions of a more traditional sedan type panel. You need all the functions: 4 air vents, gauges, tunes, HVAC, shifter, NAV map screen and of course …. 2 cup holders.
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[crackedcornish]

well if FFR is using a bunch of interior bits from their WRX, it will probably look something like this
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s147/crackedcornish/136552ce.png

[ScottKoschwitz]

I like the Elise's interior as a good benchmark: necessary analog gauges, switches and buttons for the driver, three intuitive knobs for HVAC (fan speed, temperature, and where you want the air to go), and a radio (maybe). No touchscreen navigation, no built-in cupholders (that's what your legs are for). :-)

[olpro]

One problem is that interiors are considerably more complicated to design and have more critical issues to deal with than exteriors. The surfacing issues are easier but the functional ones are intimidating.
I am sure that FFR is not prepared for a really detailed effort on this and will be inclined to simplify greatly and/or grab solutions from the donor. That only makes sense given the situation.

[PhyrraM]

The earlier '02-'03 Impreza models have a center stack that does not flow directly into the center console. This would lend itself readily to visually 'lightweight' no-console styling. The center stack can also be left off giving a minimalistic race-car feel (with a bit of cosmetic trimming).

[img]http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5151/5886691028_0a7054c1fa_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/23291496@N04/5886691028/)

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5061/5886732264_bfb684af45_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/23291496@N04/5886732264/)

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5222/5886165341_fabe1f5f72_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/23291496@N04/5886165341/)

http://farm7.static.flickr.com/6006/5886123977_a97ccc145c_z.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/23291496@N04/5886123977/)

[olpro]

I haven't seen any information on the center line location of the driver and passenger on the 818 so who knows where they will be. If they are crowded toward the centerline of the vehicle, the steering wheel should also be shifted in the same directions so whether or not the dash panel continues down into a console is beside the point. The steering wheel will have to be moved to the right to fit the seat location.

[PhyrraM]

..... If they are crowded toward the centerline of the vehicle, the steering wheel should also be shifted in the same directions so whether or not the dash panel continues down into a console is beside the point. ....

Very true. I wonder how set the current chassis passenger compartment design is.

[riptide motorsport]

Mabey it'll be a column shift!:)

[crackedcornish]

if FFR is using the stock Subaru WRX track width, wouldn't the cockpit be as wide as the WRX as well?

[olpro]

It could be but not necessarily. I think they just need to decide what they want in terms of a console, set a couple of seats up on the floor and decide what feels right. Too wide and it looses the intimate feeling that you probably want.

[Ks2]

at first i thought the cupholder in the subaru's dash was a bit odd and kind of an afterthought, like they tacked it on because the standard one is only big enough for a can of red bull... after driving a friends mini S around for a while i wish more cars had them in the dash...

my point being, to whoever designs the interior... shifters and cupholders need to be as far apart as possible...

[Oppenheimer]

Well I have no need for cupholders in a sporting car such as this, rarely find need for them even in 'regular' cars. I plan to drive it, not sip latte's in it. So I personally wouldn't mind if the interior doesn't end up with any.

But just because _I_ don't want them, doesn't mean I'm going to argue that this car shouldn't have them. Its not going to hurt my enjoyment of the car if it has them. Its not going to make the car weigh any more.

Just trying to be proactive for the inevitable onslaught of comments about how dare you ask for cupholders, pitchforks and torches, goes against all that is holy, yadda, yadda...

[thebeerbaron]

awwwww, you mean I sharpened my pitch fork for nothing? And what am I going to do with two dozen unlit torches? Don't you know how bad these smell?

[Oppenheimer]

I'm sure soon enough there will be angry villagers wanting to use them in another thread...

[Niburu]

Mabey it'll be a column shift!:)
only if they do that mini-truck version 818, then I can totally see it

[kach22i]

if FFR is using the stock Subaru WRX track width, wouldn't the cockpit be as wide as the WRX as well?

The outside structure of a stock Subie goes to the outside of the doors, which more or less line up with the outside width of the front and rear tires.

Looking at the steel tube frame FFR has, the frame is set on the inside of the tire width (roughly).

Therefore the interior cabin of the FFR could be a foot and a half narrower than a normal Subie. If this worst case is true, this would leave no room for a center console, and place driver and passenger elbows touching or fighting for the same real estate.

I said "if" to the above, because I do not have a top plan view drawn to scale in which to base my comments on. I'm only going off the 3D views and open house photos. In these views there is not enough "scale elements" (like seats) to form an informed or accurate opinion.

[olpro]

Presumably they have sat in their frame and thought about this. If they had to modify the frame, they could easily give more shoulder room and probably even more floor width.
Also remember that a production car has a relatively thick door because of the glass drop, etc.
Frankly, the first view a designer or engineer should start with is the main cross body section which is cut through the driver's seat. As far as they are in the process, one has to assume that FFR has worked this all out - still could adjust it if necessary.

[kach22i]

diagram
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[kach22i]

Presumably they have sat in their frame and thought about this.
I'm hoping that my worst fears are totally unfounded, and that I really screwed up that diagram.

I'm not going to worry about it. Not my problem if they got the ergonomics right or wrong. I'm just another fool typing on a keyboard in the end.

[smiley_2]

Here's a screenshot of the top view, taken from the video Factory Five has put online. I estimate cabin width at 47.5 inches.
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[kach22i]

I estimate cabin width at 47.5 inches.

Not sure if this is the right comparable, just taking a shot at it.

2011 Subaru Impreza WRX - STI - Specifications
http://www.thecarconnection.com/specifications/subaru_impreza-sedan-wrx_2011_4dr-man_dimensions

Second Shoulder Room (in)53.2

53.2 - 47.5 = 5.7"

This is only 1/3 of my worst case study, which is good news.

Smiley-2, your estimated width is for the inside clear dimension and not the outside to outside of the frame dimensions, right?

We would lose another 2-3 inches if that were the case. Still nothing to cry over.

Looks like the cab might be just 6" smaller in width than a regular old Subie.


EDIT
Double checking.......................................... ....................
http://www.thecarconnection.com/specifications/subaru_impreza-sedan-wrx_2011_4dr-man_dimensions

Track Width, Rear (in)60.6
2707

[thebeerbaron]

If anyone wants to be geeky and pedantic, look at any of the available pictures or drawings of the chassis and use the steering wheel diameter as a reference to measure out the cabin width. It should be easy to look up the stock steering wheel width for the wheel they used. Smiley's screen cap would be a good starting point, kach22i's less so.

Me? It's almost beer time. I don't feel the need to worry about this :)

[smiley_2]

from kach22i --> Smiley-2, your estimated width is for the inside clear dimension and not the outside to outside of the frame dimensions, right?

Right, I measured inside the frame. It turns out being 50% of the wheelbase length.

[kach22i]

Right, I measured inside the frame. It turns out being 50% of the wheelbase length.

50 percent, well that's half buddy - why didn't you say so?;)

Another proportion method.
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[Oppenheimer]

Here's a screenshot of the top view, taken from the video Factory Five has put online. I estimate cabin width at 47.5 inches.
2705

Video online? Where is that?

[olpro]

It looks like FFR has provided adequate hip and shoulder room for their concept of what the 818 is expected to be.
On the other hand, since this is most likely a street car, I would hope they would reconsider their frame design and make a few improvements while still at this early stage.
They really should provide better occupant protection and this means several easy modifications to the current design (assuming the frame in the video image, etc. reflects what they mean to build).
The main side protection member drops way too low toward the front wheel to provide meaningful protection in a side impact. Assuming there are no doors - a big guess, I know :), the step over condition will probably allow for a side member at a generally higher level, especially toward the front. It should be widened at the shoulder too. Tied into this structure should be a vertical side member and CROSS CAR beam at the steering wheel support location (not just way up at the foot location). The new, higher side beam should be padded in such a way as to provide less of a concentrated blow onto the occupants, as well as allow several inches of space for deflection before body contact. This would be consistent with production car requirements and provide significantly better side protection than the current design. It would also provide a more roomy feeling too.
The higher side beam would also help in a front impact by resisting an intrusion into the upper dash panel area.
Any builder could make these changes on their own but wouldn’t it be better for FFR to do?

[thebeerbaron]

Video online? Where is that?

IIRC it's the design contest winners announcement thread. The same video they played at the open house. You sure you haven't seen it yet?

[bromikl]

If the seats will be close together as shown, the cup holders and map storage could be outboard - right behind the front tires. If that area is truly unused space (as the frame suggests) that could be a place for a briefcase or a day bag. Access by folding the seats forward?

[Rockraven]

If the seats will be close together as shown, the cup holders and map storage could be outboard - right behind the front tires. If that area is truly unused space (as the frame suggests) that could be a place for a briefcase or a day bag. Access by folding the seats forward?

Helmet holders in the doors... like the Stratos. (Yeah, I'm on about the Stratos again. I really really want an 818 Stratos).

[kach22i]

Helmet holders in the doors... like the Stratos. (Yeah, I'm on about the Stratos again. I really really want an 818 Stratos).

1. You can get a UK made Hawk from an agent in California I think. Seen ads in Canada for built Hawks (Stratos replicas).

2. If you are talking about the new larger Statos, see the study I started a couple of weeks ago below, and traced over today just for you.

It can be done, just not very original, the contest as I understood it was looking for new ideas.

http://s184.photobucket.com/albums/x295/kach22i/Industrial%20Design/
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x295/kach22i/Industrial%20Design/GKA-Stratos2-Study.jpg

Edit:
If you really like the new Stratos you have to check this site out.
http://www.carbodydesign.com/archive/2010/09/lancia-stratos-design-sketches/
2754

http://s184.photobucket.com/albums/x295/kach22i/Automobile/
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x295/kach22i/Automobile/Stratos-Scale-Study.jpg

[Rockraven]

I'm sure the FFR guys are well aware that original designs don't sell very well. Most people want a replica of a famous car that in original form is financially impossible to obtain... Cobras, Ferrari 250GTs, Stratos, GT40, etc etc. The GTM may be a rare anomaly, but since Dave said there may be three 818 models, I think there's a great possibility of a Stratos model. 3 original designs would be extremely risky.

[olpro]

Here’s an old sketch where the functional parts are separate elements floating against a background rather than being integrated into an overall form.
This is kind of like the interior design of restaurants and retail shops where they tear out the ceiling, paint it all black and just expose the beams, heating ducts and electrical stuff. That is a design mode that could work well for a kit car like the 818.2766

[Flamshackle]

I'm sure the FFR guys are well aware that original designs don't sell very well. Most people want a replica of a famous car that in original form is financially impossible to obtain... Cobras, Ferrari 250GTs, Stratos, GT40, etc etc. The GTM may be a rare anomaly, but since Dave said there may be three 818 models, I think there's a great possibility of a Stratos model. 3 original designs would be extremely risky.

While I agree on a historic level I also think that if FFR pull off the designs that won the competition then there would be buckets of interest in there product as they look amazing!

[kach22i]

separate elements floating against a background
I like the idea and words better than the sketch, although it is a cool sketch in it's own right.

How about teardrop shaped pods suspended on rods or rails which seem to float the gages mid-air?

I have a bullet shaped clock similar to the below, but without the base. This is the shape I have in mind.

I should just sketch something up.

http://www.cruisingoods.com/webpages/giftbike.htm
2767

EDIT:
Maybe I should not post a first try, testing out some half baked ideas, but here it is. Needs lots of work but got my feet wet.

http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x295/kach22i/Industrial%20Design/GKA-FFR-Interior-Scheme-1.jpg

[smiley_2]

These two sketches are from Chris Hrabalek's Fenomenon Stratos, displayed in 2005. Considering the 818's narrow cabin and the presence of cross-members, they could be an approach to consider...

27712772

source: http://archive.cardesignnews.com/autoshows/2005/geneva/preview/fenomenon-stratos/index.html

[olpro]

Kach22i, That’s looking good. Now maybe throw in some corrugated tubular loom for routing the wiring, multi-size the gauges a little, add some cut & sew backpack-like or mesh storage pockets, maybe a map clipboard – like you might see in a light plane.
It could even pick up elements of a steam punk vibe.
Personally, I would go with regular cans for the instruments rather than those bullet things.

[kach22i]

some corrugated tubular loom for routing the wiring,
The post industrial look you describe is one direction I did not think of, very interesting though.

I was more thinking of using those hollow aerofoil shaped aluminum tube spars from the hobby shop. The wires could run hidden in the hollow aerofoil.

I'm currently working on a loudspeaker design where the teardrop shaped tweeter is mounted in front of the woofer cone for a sort of co-axial configuration. The tweeter is suspended and mounted top and bottom (spars running side to side) with the aerofoil spars, tweeter wires running inside the spar.

However one huge advantage of using exposed corrugated tubular loom is that hunting down shorts, open circuits and adding new equipment would be made much easier. In a kit car this could be very important.

The only kit car owner I know had a 550 replica, and besides living in Michigan with unpredictable weather the main reason he sold it was electrical gremlins.

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=297-409
2774

Plus this..........but larger and more robust construction.
http://s184.photobucket.com/albums/x295/kach22i/GKA%20PLLC%20Architect/
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x295/kach22i/GKA%20PLLC%20Architect/GKA-aerofoil-house.jpg

[kach22i]

source: http://archive.cardesignnews.com/autoshows/2005/geneva/preview/fenomenon-stratos/index.html
2775

While not a big fan of that concept effort, the interior has some cool adaptive possibilities. I can imagine plastic zip on covers for the seats, a drain with weep tubes at the footwell and the quilted top shell fabric being of waterproof material. This would be one neat interior for a convertible, something Jeep owners would be envious of.

[olpro]

It IS an interesting look with the diagonal surface being the major statement.It could all be done with one large fiberglass part with the padding added. It would be impossible to do this idea well with available seats.
Of course the controls would have to be adjustable to make this concept work and that compromises the simplicity of the statement. Making the steering and pedals slide back and forth is hokey and adjusting the shifter to the driver would really be a problem because this mid engine layout needs a really good shift linkage.

[Ks2]

i cant say i like that, spending alot of time driving a pickup i know i rely on the space behind the seats for alot of things, putting a big diagonal board across there in my opinion wastes that potential space to put things and for street applications a jack and maybe a donut, or putting a laptop bag out of sight or using the space for a sub/amp seems more appealing then something i will just hit my elbows on

from the space frame there wont be room for anything at the front of the car and unless there is a space at the rear over the engine which is even less practical, space inside the cabin will be all there is available for holding stuff from a quick grocery run or whatever

[kach22i]

i cant say i like that, spending alot of time driving a pickup
I drive a Chevy S10, no extended cab or anything fancy, just a plain old fashion pick up truck.

The front seat, and behind the seats storage is adequate for me and my stuff.

The problem arises when passengers want to take more than a purse or a single briefcase. Their stuff seems to get all over the place and they are totally lost on how to manage their belongings. Telling them there are milk crates in the bed in which they can toss things seems to strike sheer terror in them.:cool:

[Ks2]

i used to drive an S10 also standard cab and yeah the idea of putting things in the back is for some reason un-fathomable... i have a extended cab ranger now and it seems huge

without some room behind the seats all there will be in this car is passenger seat/footwell... so with a passenger means the only place to put things in in their lap

[olpro]

Most racing type buckets do not have pivoting backs. I personally would want a sliding, pivoting seat - for the reasons you all have mentioned.

[Ks2]

there was a discussion of using the stock seats which don't pivot forward much but they do enough to gain access behind them (though some alternative method of sliding them may be needed as the stock brackets and sliders would make the seats too high up on top of the gas tank)

actually looking at the frame there may not be much space at all behind the seats... a laptop bag may be too big, it would be possible to have some storage above the motor in the back, a tray behind the intercooler and above the transmission. even with the cat and muffler routed above the transmission it seems plausible to have a small tray here.. of course this also makes a nice spot to store the removable hard top...

[Cooluser23]

Helmet holders in the doors... like the Stratos. (Yeah, I'm on about the Stratos again. I really really want an 818 Stratos).

I'd be okay with that. I even like the elegant, yet purposeful interior of the new Stratos.

http://www.caranddriver.com/var/ezflow_site/storage/images/reviews/car/11q1/new_lancia_stratos-first_drive_review/gallery/new_lancia_stratos_helmet_storage_compartment_phot o_32/4057501-1-eng-US/new_lancia_stratos_4_cd_gallery.jpg
http://www.caranddriver.com/var/ezflow_site/storage/images/reviews/car/11q1/new_lancia_stratos-first_drive_review/gallery/new_lancia_stratos_interior_photo_12/4057221-1-eng-US/new_lancia_stratos_2_cd_gallery.jpg

Here's the large picture:
2835 2836

[Cooluser23]

From a functional point of view, my favorite real-life interior I sat in must be the new Lotus Evora.

http://acceltimes.com/images/IMAGEGALLERY/Lotus/Evora/Mid/2010-Lotus-Evora-Interior2.jpg

or in black:
http://www.lincah.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/2010-Lotus-Evora-Carbon-Concept-Interior-View-588x441.jpg

or white:
http://dualpartner.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/2010-Lotus-Evora-Naomi-for-Haiti-Interior-View.jpg

We know these interiors aren't particularly heavy, since Lotus' philosophy is "add lightness".

[kach22i]

I sat in a Lotus Evora last summer/fall. Very easy to get in and out of compared to the first two Elise generations.

Where are the cup holders?

[Doc_FFR]

I'm sure the FFR guys are well aware that original designs don't sell very well. ... The GTM may be a rare anomaly, but since Dave said there may be three 818 models, I think there's a great possibility of a Stratos model. 3 original designs would be extremely risky.
The GTM is not a rare anomaly. Many original kit cars are very successful. (The Rally Fighter from Local Motors, or the dozen exo cars on the market). I know one of the judges dropped the word "Stratos" early on and that has brought a few fans to the forums, but if you listen to what Dave has been saying lately, you'll notice he's saying a whole lot of nothing about the Stratos. I think your best hopes are for something vaguely Stratos-esque and not a replica.

I think most would agree that your criticism of the current three body plan has more to do with it being incongruent with your desires than based in actual fact.

But so as to not hijack a thread with my own subject (ahem) here’s the interior I’m dying for:

http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/7105/135132680roadstermf5gal.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/695/135132680roadstermf5gal.jpg/)
http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/8545/2652940gtmf5galerieinte.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/19/2652940gtmf5galerieinte.jpg/)
http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/9740/2532860gtmf4galerieinte.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/96/2532860gtmf4galerieinte.jpg/)
http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/158/2372720roadstermf3galer.th.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/41/2372720roadstermf3galer.jpg/)


Obviously the high-end leather wouldn't come standard, but the layout is very nice. I like how the dials all face the driver.

[PhyrraM]

I never 'got' the center mounted gauge thing. IMO, they belong front and center.

Given the choice I prefer simple and well detailed over complex, but unfinished looking.

I'm also unsure how I feel about the current no-console, shoulder-to-shoulder design of the chassis. I'm mainly looking for a street car, so a place to rest an elbow every now and again seems important.

[adesilva]

I never 'got' the center mounted gauge thing. IMO, they belong front and center.

Given the choice I prefer simple and well detailed over complex, but unfinished looking.

I'm also unsure how I feel about the current no-console, shoulder-to-shoulder design of the chassis. I'm mainly looking for a street car, so a place to rest an elbow every now and again seems important.

Agreed, I personally hate it. I would love it to be just like the Evora however.

[crackedcornish]

c'mon guys let's face it, if FFR is going to meet their self imposed budget of $9.900 there's going to be a lot of Subaru parts such as the dash, consoles, visors, interior panels, etc., (of whatever year you plan on using for your donor) in this car. Isn't that the point of a single donor kit, to pirate as much useable stuff from the one donor car as possible?

I'd rather see the guys at FFR spend the money on the chassis, suspension, and body, then on making fancy parts for the interior (unless they are to be molded as part of the body of course) when the donor car already has a fairly sorted out interior.

now lets see some pics of how the stock dashboards and such can be modified with different coverings and materials.

Are there any cool aftermarket gauge faces, or dash inserts so one can add additional gauges, for these things?

[kach22i]

With this thread in mind, I took some photos at the recent Rolling Sculpture Auto Show in downtown Ann Arbor........enjoy.

http://s184.photobucket.com/albums/x295/kach22i/2011%20Rolling%20Sculpture%20-%20Ann%20Arbor/
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x295/kach22i/2011%20Rolling%20Sculpture%20-%20Ann%20Arbor/DSCF2195.jpg
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x295/kach22i/2011%20Rolling%20Sculpture%20-%20Ann%20Arbor/DSCF2221.jpg
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x295/kach22i/2011%20Rolling%20Sculpture%20-%20Ann%20Arbor/DSCF2232.jpg
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x295/kach22i/2011%20Rolling%20Sculpture%20-%20Ann%20Arbor/DSCF2254.jpg
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x295/kach22i/2011%20Rolling%20Sculpture%20-%20Ann%20Arbor/DSCF2258.jpg
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x295/kach22i/2011%20Rolling%20Sculpture%20-%20Ann%20Arbor/DSCF2266.jpg

[kach22i]

A few more, go to the link to figure out which car they are from.

http://s184.photobucket.com/albums/x295/kach22i/2011%20Rolling%20Sculpture%20-%20Ann%20Arbor/
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x295/kach22i/2011%20Rolling%20Sculpture%20-%20Ann%20Arbor/DSCF2292.jpg
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x295/kach22i/2011%20Rolling%20Sculpture%20-%20Ann%20Arbor/DSCF2315.jpg
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x295/kach22i/2011%20Rolling%20Sculpture%20-%20Ann%20Arbor/DSCF2316.jpg
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x295/kach22i/2011%20Rolling%20Sculpture%20-%20Ann%20Arbor/DSCF2336.jpg
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x295/kach22i/2011%20Rolling%20Sculpture%20-%20Ann%20Arbor/DSCF2337.jpg

[thebeerbaron]

Blue one with the Nardi steering wheel is a 90-93 Miata.

Stock except for "dress up" items like the faux-wood trim, the faux-chrome trim, the door pulls, and the shift knob.

The carpet and seats are different fabrics than stock.




One interesting thought - 914 seats are supposed to be very light and yet comfortable. Also, some Elise seats are similarly light and comfortable and commonly available on the take-off market as owners upgrade to track seats or fancier stuff.

I'm thinking simple, simple, simple. Driver-oriented. I don't need no stinkin' cup holders!

[Dave Smith]

This is an extremely helpful thread, I believe the car will need a very spartan interior to accomplish cost goals (at least model 1), still Lotus does simple interiors well.

[PhyrraM]

I'm a fan of repurposing the Stock subaru dash as it gives a level of professional fit and finish that might be hard to accomplish otherwise. It would also leave the option of HVAC open to the builder. I also feel it can be accomplished within the weight parameters.

However, it appears the current chassis interation places the passengers close together and will not accomodate it.

I like the Fiat X1/9 dash shown above. Simple contours, small ledge for small items. Simple, angled console that works with the other simple shapes. It also looks remarkably like the early Ferrari interior...never knew that, but I suppose it makes sense.

[Dave Smith]

I know its early, but the discussion and ideas are solid. The Subie guage pod is really pretty and with diff models comes the ability to spend more money or less depending on purposing.

[Flamshackle]

This is an extremely helpful thread, I believe the car will need a very spartan interior to accomplish cost goals (at least model 1), still Lotus does simple interiors well.

This is the way forward! keep it simple, cost efficient and lightweight please ;)

oh yea one more thing...

MAKE IT LOOK LIKE THIS! hehehe...
2886

[kach22i]

I think FFR has a set of suppliers, and I do not want to rain on their hard fought and established status. However I discovered this instrument gauge company on-line today (via a Porsche forum) and think it is worth sharing.

http://www.newvintageusa.com/
NEW VINTAGE USA
2415 BURDETTE
FERNDALE, MI

Not all that far from me.

Sample:
http://www.newvintageusa.com/performance.html
2891

It looks like they do design work too.
http://www.newvintageusa.com/id.html

WORKING PROTOTYPE/PRODUCTION
We can hand off data to your supplier/assembler or connect you with our large network of injection molders, stamping suppliers and assemblers to make it all happen for you.

[kach22i]

When you accidently find an interior like this, you just have to post it.:o
2928

[Doc_FFR]

When you accidently find an interior like this, you just have to post it.:o
2928hahaha! Some rather suggestive hand placement, right?

[Cooluser23]

I sat in a Lotus Evora last summer/fall. Very easy to get in and out of compared to the first two Elise generations.

Where are the cup holders?

You know, it's something I haven't thought of at the time. I'll check out Evoras this weekend if I can remember and will report back.

[Cooluser23]

This is an extremely helpful thread, I believe the car will need a very spartan interior to accomplish cost goals (at least model 1), still Lotus does simple interiors well.

Glad to see that you think similarly. I'm hoping a simple design, but with attractive styling/shapes (similar to the Evora in concept) is in the cards for the 818. I think this could be accomplished with very few fiberglass pieces.

I'm just hoping it will still be "designed", rather than look like an afterthought. Interiors have become so much more important on modern cars. (as it's all we see while stuck inside our cars in traffic) Another company that does interiors well is Audi (although they do look more complicated to fabricate than Lotus interiors)

[Gun Bunny]

hahaha! Some rather suggestive hand placement, right?

There was a hand in that picture?

Oh, wait, now I see it...

Yeah, that is kinda suggestive.


Also, in playing along with BeerBaron, the last two pictures are an electric-drive converted Fiat X1/9

[crackedcornish]

perhaps it will look something like this...but utilize the Subaru gauge cluster, vents, steering column, vent controls, and other assorted bits and pieces...remember single donor and $9900
http://www.factoryfive.com/gtm/gallery/gen2/images/IMG_0144.jpg
http://www.factoryfive.com/gtm/gallery/gen2/images/IMG_0159.jpg

[Steve91T]

perhaps it will look something like this...but utilize the Subaru gauge cluster, vents, steering column, vent controls, and other assorted bits and pieces...remember single donor and $9900
http://www.factoryfive.com/gtm/gallery/gen2/images/IMG_0144.jpg
http://www.factoryfive.com/gtm/gallery/gen2/images/IMG_0159.jpg

So, basically, it'll look nothing like the picture then? :)

[crackedcornish]

So, basically, it'll look nothing like the picture then? :)

no...it could look quite a bit like that pic actually, not saying that it will, but it could :cool:

here's a pic of the '06 Subaru WRX dash like the one in FFR's donor car
http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s147/crackedcornish/136552ce.png

and here's a pic of a GTM dash
http://www.factoryfive.com/gtm/gallery/gen2/images/IMG_0144.jpg

now, imagine if you will (Rod Serling voice), the Subaru gauges under that hood in the GTM dash, they both have the round vents at the ends and you could go either round or square (round would probably look better) in the center, as it is in the GTM now, and the 3 round Subaru heat/vent controls would go where the GTM has the 3 round chrome knobs.

since you will be hopefully sitting lower in an 818 then you were in a WRX you won't be able to use the original '06 console because the dashboard will be closer to the floor... but we'll just have to wait and see what FFR comes up with won't we?

[D2W]

It would be nice if FFR could find a way to integrate at least the top part and maybe part of the console into the 818. Production car interiors look so much nicer than most kit cars. That GTM interior looks very nice, but I've also read how hard and expensive they are to get that way on the forum. They don't come that nice from FFR.

[crackedcornish]

It would be nice if FFR could find a way to integrate at least the top part and maybe part of the console into the 818. Production car interiors look so much nicer than most kit cars. That GTM interior looks very nice, but I've also read how hard and expensive they are to get that way on the forum. They don't come that nice from FFR.



I'm with you, I'm hoping much of the Subaru interior will be used

[kach22i]

I like this interior, very functional.

Video link:
http://www.wimp.com/armoredvehicle/

[Silvertop]

I like this interior, very functional.

Video link:
http://www.wimp.com/armoredvehicle/

Well, um yes -- that's very nice. But it is kind of big, and I don't think it's available in kit form, and probably not well suited to Subie power. Very well equipped dashboard, though.............:)

[Cooluser23]

perhaps it will look something like this...but utilize the Subaru gauge cluster, vents, steering column, vent controls, and other assorted bits and pieces...remember single donor and $9900
http://www.factoryfive.com/gtm/gallery/gen2/images/IMG_0144.jpg
http://www.factoryfive.com/gtm/gallery/gen2/images/IMG_0159.jpg

That is what I'm afraid of. The GTM interior looks like an afterthought and screams "kitcar". Of course with the open top design of the 818 the interior will be much more noticeable than it is in the low slung GTM. I would like to be able to part the 818 without immediately showing off the kit car nature of the car.

I'm fine with using the Subie gauge cluster. It's pretty, functional, and can be adapted to many interior designs. I also doubt most passer by's will immediately recognize it as a Subie cluster.

[thebeerbaron]

That is what I'm afraid of. The GTM interior looks like an afterthought and screams "kitcar". Of course with the open top design of the 818 the interior will be much more noticeable than it is in the low slung GTM. I would like to be able to part the 818 without immediately showing off the kit car nature of the car.

I'm fine with using the Subie gauge cluster. It's pretty, functional, and can be adapted to many interior designs. I also doubt most passer by's will immediately recognize it as a Subie cluster.

This is what I love about kit cars. In the $9900 kit (the one I plan to build) I expect the Subaru gauge cluster and not much more on the dash, which I expect to be a gel-coat panel like the rest of the car. I expect that there will be a beautiful blank slate for people who want an OEM-level dash, and I know there are builders and custom shops out there who can do that.

I'd expect the DailyDriver/Eco-818 to have a GTM-level interior.

[crackedcornish]

This is what I love about kit cars. In the $9900 kit (the one I plan to build) I expect the Subaru gauge cluster and not much more on the dash, which I expect to be a gel-coat panel like the rest of the car. I expect that there will be a beautiful blank slate for people who want an OEM-level dash, and I know there are builders and custom shops out there who can do that.

I'd expect the DailyDriver/Eco-818 to have a GTM-level interior.

I too plan to build an inexpensive roadster or track bodied car first, just to get my feet wet, and I fully expect the dashboard to look like the Porsche 550 Spyder dash (see post #2 of this thread) that I posted earlier, only with the Subaru gauge cluster and steering column, and not much else. Anything other than that would just be a bonus as far as I'm concerned.

[Admiral Doom]

I think they need to make a very simple, modular interior. Make it with a few simple panels designed to be modified. A/C vents or none. Radio or no radio. 23,000 aftermarket gauges or stock Subie gauges. A center console that can be modified for any style shifter, and enough space to cut out some cup holders or leave it solid for a switch panel. I think they did a fair job of this with the GTM, but I think this is an opportunity to kick it up a notch. The beauty of a kit car is that the builder builds it how he/she wants. Designing a dash to be easily modifiable would make it even more appealing to people like me that want to put a personal touch in this project.

[Cooluser23]

Yes, I like the idea of a modular dash/interior. As long as the style/design is modern, then it will be wide open to user's tastes, what they want to do with it. I like the simplicity of the Lotus Evora interior. It could basically be 1-2 Gel Coated panels, but the curvature is sexy.

Since we were talking about modular interior. Here's the Lotus Evora track version:
http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2009/09/lotus_evora_type_124_front_3qtrs_interior_1.jpg
http://www.yellowwheels.com/wp-content/gallery/2010-01-lotus-evora-cup/timandrew_ywn-4839.jpg
http://www.yellowwheels.com/wp-content/gallery/2010-01-lotus-evora-cup/timandrew_ywn-4842.jpg
http://www.yellowwheels.com/wp-content/gallery/2010-01-lotus-evora-cup/timandrew_ywn-5146.jpg
http://www.yellowwheels.com/wp-content/gallery/2010-01-lotus-evora-cup/timandrew_ywn-5151.jpg

I think it would be totally possible to make a street, and a race interior for about the same price. Heck, one could even make a carbon fiber (or fiberglass) panel that would replace the Subaru gauge cluster and allow for custom gauges.

I also hope that the interior is as roomy as a Fiero, and not as cramped as a Mazda Miata, but one can only hope. (the less "dead space" is behind the dash, the better. Since the car won't have airbags, there is no need for the dash to be close to the passengers.)

[Admiral Doom]

Wow, I really like that Evora race interior! I think that is a good general design for this car, but maybe add a little more curvature to the front panel, to flow more with the lines of the car (assuming it's like Xabier's design). I like the general idea of the GTM interior, but I hate the slope of the center console. Make the dash as one fiberglass (or CF option) piece, and make it flow with or without a center console (so you can omit the center console for a track car). Also, ship all of the interior parts solid (no precut holes) so it can be customized for any gauge setup. I guess the biggest challenge will be working around that center structure bar between the passengers. I'll see if i can sketch up a little more of what I'm talking about...I'm horrible at drawing haha

[kach22i]

I like it, but suddenly I may see a problem with toggle switches naked eyeballs.

I guess that's what seat belts are for, right?:p

They are recessed in the dash, kind of sort of.

[Cooluser23]

I like it, but suddenly I may see a problem with toggle switches naked eyeballs.

I guess that's what seat belts are for, right?:p

They are recessed in the dash, kind of sort of.

Toggle switches would probably work better on race cars. But yes, that's what seatbelts are for. Anybody who has ever rolled a car will swear by wearing seat belts, people who don't wear them (even/especially on the street) are crazy and in line for the Darwin awards.

btw.: How come there aren't any more sketches of interiors coming along?

[D2W]

I like it, but suddenly I may see a problem with toggle switches naked eyeballs.

I guess that's what seat belts are for, right?:p

They are recessed in the dash, kind of sort of.

If your face is bouncing off of the dash you have more things to worry about then just your eyes.

[kach22i]

btw.: How come there aren't any more sketches of interiors coming along?
I can't speak for anyone else, but work is picking up for me. Deadlines ya know.

[olpro]

Here's a couple with an emphasis on the driver.
32293230

[thebeerbaron]

bucket seats may have killed any chance of front-seat "action", but that cockpit is burying it and dancing on its grave... :)

[Psay]

Olpro that is a beautiful design and along the same lines as what I have been looking at.

I want a car that will be a weekend toy but at the same time is not a raw car. I have been looking at interior ideas and like the Infiniti Esscence Concept car which envelops the driver and would hide the central structral bar between the seats.


3231

[kach22i]

This light weight electric car from Germany has an interesting interior. Which will alter your Mindset?

Images here:
http://www.autoblog.com/photos/mindset-electric-car-1/#photo-1325645/

Article here:
http://www.autoblog.com/2009/02/04/alter-your-mindset-electric-german-city-car-gets-first-drive/

[Niburu]

the front fascia is very Karmann Ghia inspired
note the similarties between my old car and the Mindset
http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/8996/xcrossghia3a.jpg

[olpro]

That "Mindset" reminds me of the Nissan Gobi, circa 1990. It had a canvas bag which was a removable glove box too.

[818_Fan_15]

I like this: Let's post sketches/designs of interiors.
Absent of any news on exterior, why not?

[mattster03]

Let's be realistic about our interior goals here folks... there's no way you are going to make a sub-$10K kit with OEM quality interior. I actually really like the GTM interior... I expect to see a lot of the same interior techniques for the 818, and I am excited for that. FFR clearly knows what they are doing so I would like to see the "Gen 2 GTM" fabric and stitching method used for the dash, center console, and door cards but other than that it should be used sparingly. Bare Aluminum paneling looks great and I think it would be very complimentary to the design goals of this vehicle as it screams "I am lightweight and purpose built". I love the OEM feel aftermarket gauges with the CF surround that the Gen 2 uses... I believe they are made by Speedhut, but I may be mistaken; center tach, smaller speedo to the right and Oil press, coolant temp, and fuel level to the left. I would also expect to see the vents used again which give a good OEM feel.

The one thing I would like to see revisited for the 818 is to get more of a flat center console unlike the 'euro' style slanted unit used in the GTM.

[NYCarStars]

i think that adding a few parts to your interior makes it like like a "oem" car and takes away that kit car interior feel /. feels almost like undone this is a cadillac dvd lexus gs 350 speedclusters and a lambo wheel those are things u can pick up at a salvage yard from wrecked cars :-) 4202 4200 i also did a cobra with a bugatti instrument panel ferrari wheel 4201

[crobin4]

i think that adding a few parts to your interior makes it like like a "oem" car and takes away that kit car interior feel /. feels almost like undone this is a cadillac dvd lexus gs 350 speedclusters and a lambo wheel those are things u can pick up at a salvage yard from wrecked cars :-) 4202 4200 i also did a cobra with a bugatti instrument panel ferrari wheel 4201

Problem solved, you guys that need a super nice interior. Looks like these guys will take care of it.

[Niburu]

Problem solved, you guys that need a super nice interior. Looks like these guys will take care of it.
http://troll.me/images/futurama-fry/not-sure-if-serious-or-not.jpg

[Ramarryo]

http://i1112.photobucket.com/albums/k485/Ramarryo/FFR818Dash.jpg

Just a quick sketch of what comes to my mind when I think about 818 interior design.....

[crobin4]

http://troll.me/images/futurama-fry/not-sure-if-serious-or-not.jpg

Heh Heh:)

[kach22i]

Just a quick sketch of what comes to my mind when I think about 818 interior design.....
Fancy.

Nice.

Beats the heck out of spray mounting interlocking diamond pattern foam rubber square floor tiles to everything. Something I might do if budget minded and after consuming too many beers.

[Grantourer]

I'd like to see a simple, tasteful, yet flowing design for the 818 interior and (like others) have faith FF will deliver.

This one from an Eagle Speedster caught my eye. I like how the rear deck "waterfalls" down into the console.
4249
4250

[wooward]

It would be nice if FFR could find a way to integrate at least the top part and maybe part of the console into the 818. Production car interiors look so much nicer than most kit cars. That GTM interior looks very nice, but I've also read how hard and expensive they are to get that way on the forum. They don't come that nice from FFR.

I agree as well. I want a car that has a modern looking interior. Not something the looks homemade or from the 70s.

[Draco-REX]

+1 vote for a "modular" interior. I'll probably trim it down to a bare minimum to keep weight down, but it would be good if people had the option of something more comfortable.

[Cooluser23]

Keep this thread going. I'd love to see more interior sketches.

[kach22i]

+1 vote for a "modular" interior.
I think that I know what a "Modular Engine" is, but what the heck is a "Modular Interior"?

[Admiral Doom]

I think that I know what a "Modular Engine" is, but what the heck is a "Modular Interior"?

See post #90. Modular interior means having the interior "work" with or without certain components (i.e. the center console). A "modular" interior would look "right" with or without the center console, with stock gauges or aftermarket, race-style toggle switches or OEM-style rockers. I, personally, want to make the interior as OEM-looking as possible, even if it costs extra. I'll be wrapping the interior in Alcantara, CarPC with touchscreen, full color LCD gauges (a-la Aventador/LFA), all built by yours truly. The easier FFR makes this, the more incentive I will have to buy it.

[Idesign]

A first attempt of a basic dash.

52285229

[crackedcornish]

A first attempt of a basic dash.

52285229

I like how you mimicked the FF logo with the different colors in the gauges. With the blue outside sweep of the tach for the outside blue ring and the red smaller ones representing the center red of the logo ...very nice

just add a couple cup holders for the DD types and you'll be all set ;)

[GUNS]

I'd be very happy with that design. Good job Idesign.

[Grantourer]

Idesign, that looks very nice. I like the TT-esque twin columns connecting the dash and center tunnel. Pepper in some Alcantara and stitched leather, a flat-bottom steering wheel, and a cubby for multimedia/audio and it's perfect!

[olpro]

Idesign, nice job. It looks good but is simple and easy to fabricate. It also allows space for lots of additional functions if someone wants them.
I am hoping the FFR might release a little more information on the interior so people can play with possible design options. One thing I would like to know is the seat locations relative to the vehicle center line. Now we have to guess but that dimension is important in terms of what is possible with the console.

[Ks2]

prosport gauges would look super nice there... they are a good price and look spectacular

in fact leaving those 3 spots open for any 52mm gauge means costs can stay down and we builders can go as crazy as we want with aftermarket gauges

overall simple and functional, easy to make, looks awesome and we can customize it with whatever guages we live (maybe)... and a hot shift knob to boot... love it

[kach22i]

One thing I would like to know is the seat locations relative to the vehicle center line.

Posts 35 & 36 back on 7/01/11 (page 1 of this thread) might be the best information we have, 24" + 24" for the side by seating width as a rough guess. Also guessing based on David's comments that the center diagonal is being reconsidered.

That Pontiac Solstice dash posted a while back is interesting in that the angle is aggressively downward, I presume to lessen dash reflection or glare.

Another image of it.
http://www.madmechanics.com/general-kitcar-chat/using-pontiac-g6-dash/
5248

[olpro]

Thanks for that. If the available space is 24" we can begin to see how much room there might be between the seats. I think the typical aftermarket seat is 21 or 22 inches wide (the image is a Corbeau seat) which allows between 2" to 4" for a console, depending on where the seat is mounted within that 24" range. Of course I don't know what the elbow situation is on the outsides so the seats might have to be squeezed inward, eliminating ANY console.
5249

[adesilva]

I am a big fan of the solstices driver oriented dash. Looks much nicer than the wrx dash. According to the poster on that forum the dashes are on eBay cheap as well. If we were able to adapt that dash into the 818 it would go a long way towards making the car look factory built instead of a typical kit car interior.

[ICY WRX]

Idesign, that looks very nice. I like the TT-esque twin columns connecting the dash and center tunnel. Pepper in some Alcantara and stitched leather, a flat-bottom steering wheel, and a cubby for multimedia/audio and it's perfect!

Totally agree ^^. Idesign - very nice! I'd adopt that in a heart beat. very much my style.

[kach22i]

....................making the car look factory built instead of a typical kit car interior.
I did a little research on the GTM exterior once, there is an incredible amount of personal customization going on (most of it very nice, but not always to my personal taste).

I can only imagine that the interiors of the GTM cars are just as varied and customized, at least from a finishes viewpoint.

My point, if you love or hate something like a Solstice interior, most likely if determined to do so, a custom interior seems possible.

olpro, as I've mentioned before I like to compare different vehicle egonomics, their functions may differ but people are people and they still have to fit. One of the most popular light aircraft with side by seating is worth looking at, just for a back of the mind reference, at least I think so.

Cirrus SR22
http://www.classg.com/aircraft-performance-specs/Cirrus-SR22-specs/547

Cabin Height 4 ft 2 in
Cabin Width 4 ft 1 in

The Cirrus SR-20/22
http://www.airliners.net/aircraft-data/stats.main?id=167

The cockpit interior is based on modern automotive designs.

Cirrus SR22
http://www.the-blueprints.com/blueprints/ww2planes/various/22715/view/cirrus_sr22/
5255

Cirrus SR22 Aircraft Seat Covers ..........INTERIOR PHOTOS
http://www.aerosheep.com/Cirrus/SR22/cirrus-sr22-seat-covers.html

http://www.flickr.com/photos/observethebanana/sets/72157601100413983/detail/
5256

I have not been in a Cirrus SR22, but my cousin (a pilot) has and tells me it's very nice. From a design standpoint, I like the whole co-pilot concept for the passenger, so they do not feel less important than the driver. However, in the end it just has to make sense otherwise it's a square peg in a round hole.

[Steve91T]

I did a little research on the GTM exterior once, there is an incredible amount of personal customization going on (most of it very nice, but not always to my personal taste).

I can only imagine that the interiors of the GTM cars are just as varied and customized, at least from a finishes viewpoint.

My point, if you love or hate something like a Solstice interior, most likely if determined to do so, a custom interior seems possible.

olpro, as I've mentioned before I like to compare different vehicle egonomics, their functions may differ but people are people and they still have to fit. One of the most popular light aircraft with side by seating is worth looking at, just for a back of the mind reference, at least I think so.

Cirrus SR22
http://www.classg.com/aircraft-performance-specs/Cirrus-SR22-specs/547


The Cirrus SR-20/22
http://www.airliners.net/aircraft-data/stats.main?id=167


Cirrus SR22
http://www.the-blueprints.com/blueprints/ww2planes/various/22715/view/cirrus_sr22/
5255

Cirrus SR22 Aircraft Seat Covers ..........INTERIOR PHOTOS
http://www.aerosheep.com/Cirrus/SR22/cirrus-sr22-seat-covers.html

http://www.flickr.com/photos/observethebanana/sets/72157601100413983/detail/
5256

I have not been in a Cirrus SR22, but my cousin (a pilot) has and tells me it's very nice. From a design standpoint, I like the whole co-pilot concept for the passenger, so they do not feel less important than the driver. However, in the end it just has to make sense otherwise it's a square peg in a round hole.

I understand what you are saying about the whole co-pilot thing, but obviously cars are far different than airplanes. The passenger of a plane can actually help with maps, radios, navigation, and even flying. What's the passenger of a car going to help you do? Shift? I like interiors like the 1993 Camaro.


http://www.carcraft.com/featuredvehicles/116_0706_1993_chevrolet_camaro/photo_10.html

Or the Supra...

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://image.turbomagazine.com/f/9654432/0805_turp_09_z%2B1995_toyota_supra%2Binterior.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.turbomagazine.com/features/0805_turp_1995_toyota_supra/photo_09.html&h=480&w=640&sz=170&tbnid=fZnx5ZfpzwrVnM:&tbnh=103&tbnw=137&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dtoyota%2Bsupra%2Binterior%2Bpics%26tb m%3Disch%26tbo%3Du&zoom=1&q=toyota+supra+interior+pics&usg=__y8B-6sh0YKuOkyKaagfNr5L1vCw=&sa=X&ei=3UqYTpbhCYT30gGOmY3iBA&ved=0CBkQ9QEwAw


I actually really like the Supra. Everything is angled towards the driver by quite a bit, and the tach is front and center, right where it should be.

[PhyrraM]

I understand what you are saying about the whole co-pilot thing, but obviously cars are far different than airplanes. The passenger of a plane can actually help with maps, radios, navigation, and even flying. What's the passenger of a car going to help you do? Shift?....

Actually, if your a rally fan (as many Subaru owners are) the passenger does all of those things - well, not flying.

However, even though the idea of a "new Stratos" got tossed around alot earlier, the 818 seems to be squarely in the track day/autocross realm based on most of the recent comments in other threads.

[Steve91T]

Actually, if your a rally fan (as many Subaru owners are) the passenger does all of those things - well, not flying.

However, even though the idea of a "new Stratos" got tossed around alot earlier, the 818 seems to be squarely in the track day/autocross realm based on most of the recent comments in other threads.

Exactly, this isn't going to be a rally car.

[Hiryu]

Or the Supra...

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://image.turbomagazine.com/f/9654432/0805_turp_09_z%2B1995_toyota_supra%2Binterior.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.turbomagazine.com/features/0805_turp_1995_toyota_supra/photo_09.html&h=480&w=640&sz=170&tbnid=fZnx5ZfpzwrVnM:&tbnh=103&tbnw=137&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dtoyota%2Bsupra%2Binterior%2Bpics%26tb m%3Disch%26tbo%3Du&zoom=1&q=toyota+supra+interior+pics&usg=__y8B-6sh0YKuOkyKaagfNr5L1vCw=&sa=X&ei=3UqYTpbhCYT30gGOmY3iBA&ved=0CBkQ9QEwAw


I actually really like the Supra. Everything is angled towards the driver by quite a bit, and the tach is front and center, right where it should be.


I agree...I'm setting up my interior for my other project based on the Supra (imagine the rest of the front dash using the USDM STi gauge cluster, which should match the prosport gauges in the wrapped console):

http://youtu.be/vticTKMwOqk

http://youtu.be/pN9IaCcqEdg

http://youtu.be/rEijULWbTfY

And I think I'd probably do the same for my 818...Though my ideal interior would have a lot of high-tech stuff like HUD, etc. From my entry into the 818 contest for best technology (which obviously didn't win :( Still trying to figure out what the winning technology entry had that was actually technological? But I digress... :) )

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=b_-daC64sOU#t=19s

Mike

[adesilva]

I would love to have that style dash in my 818, if someone were to start selling that section that we could attach over the existing dash to make it more driver oriented I would love it. The only thing I would want there would be to have my double din in there underneath the gauges

[olpro]

That was fun seeing Hiryu's interiors, especially the one starting outside with the gull wing doors and the "visit" to the interior. :)

[PhyrraM]

I hated the supra interior. Yes, it had a good driver oriented slant to it, but it was MASSIVE and had a big heavy feeling to it. Lots of open, plain black areas. It could have been trimmed down and made lighter (visually) while still retaining that drivers slant to it. The guages area flowing into the center stack and then sweeping into the console all as one swath, while sounding good on paper, was pretty bad in execution.

Considering how close the occupants are going to be from each other, I think some of the ideas above with a simple bar across the car with a guage and radio "pods" will make for a clean and functional look for the 818. A center console is a no-go with the current chassis, and a "center stack" seems unlikely either considering possible "wookie knees" and the close together seating position.

[olpro]

Here are some notes on how an interior might get designed at a corporation, for what it’s worth…
The typical production interior design program runs concurrent with the exterior design process. It begins, well before designers start, with marketing studies. The marketing/planning people try to identify design criteria, often through a BENCHMARKING process. This means designating a few vehicles to meet or exceed… i.e. the new car should be equal to or better than a BMW 3 series, etc. Of course the requirements are further spelled out… the car should equal the benchmark car with respect to headroom, hip room, leg room but should exceed it by 30mm on shoulder room… interior features should meet the Acura XXX in terms of function, the Buick XXX for finish and quality and the Lexus XXX for ergonomics.
This doesn’t imply that a particular car is ‘best’ in a category, just that it is an appropriate target for comparison. These studies often come from specific focus groups, etc. that have been set up for the purpose – drawing from the appropriate demographics to fit the intended target group. They often will draw from other previous studies, ‘expert’ consultant opinions, and so forth.
Most often, the car being designed already exists on the road and in the market and is also a benchmark.
To verify interior space issues, an existing vehicle can be modified and tested, with a specific test group which is selected according to the issue (leg room, vision, etc.) My company had a group that measured everybody in the building for size, and kept a database on this information. They gave me a card that outlined my various dimensions as to numerical value and percentile. Keep in mind a 50 percentile person may have a long torso and short legs, or visa versa. Drawing from the data base, one might be asked to sit in three vehicles and fill out a questionnaire on each, giving valuable feedback to the engineers and designers. Video’s are taken and reviewed.
Sometimes, there is no comparison vehicle close enough to the target and a SEATING BUCK is made. Usually this starts with a wood platform (for the vehicle floor), seats modified and mounted in position, an IP, steering wheel, shifter, etc. in the proposed positions, a windshield of some kind and so forth. The door openings, windshield pillars, roof rails, sill and actual hinged (wooden) door are added. This buck is added to as the project proceeds (entry-exit, instruments, controls, vision, etc.) The buck can be raised or lowered to meet the various ground heights expected and people are run through it constantly, noting their comments and reactions. Later, as exterior information is developed, the rest of the upper can be mocked up to test vision through the various windows and pillars. Some times this is done as a “stringer buck”, where the mockup is a skeleton type construction. Other times it can be as complete as having soft headliners, cloth textures and color. Then it can become a styling presentation as well. Often the seats (for styling review) may be painted or cloth covered clay and can’t actually be sat on. For seating review, these clay seats are swapped out with an upholstered seat and the people told to not judge them on appearance at that point in the review. Later an upholstered seat may be constructed with the correct design appearance.
The buck can provide information on reflections on the side glass and windshield. Glare, vision of and over the hood, etc. for parking, all are important to study.
These seating bucks are saved and rebuilt for future programs constantly.

A production design process will have an entire interior studio working on the project, with its designers, engineers and support staff. This is in addition to the exterior studio team. There will also be a color studio team doing ‘color design’, which is an entire additional area of color and materials. This process goes back decades so nothing is revolutionary here.

Things like the manikin positions and all the dimensional issues are constantly monitored throughout the program. There are still occasional things that boil up and force fundamental proportional changes but that is traumatic and to be avoided at all costs. Of course time is money for a big corporation and deviations from the development schedule will cost millions of dollars.

In this case we are wondering what the actual seating position is, and really have little or no idea of the other seating issues like hip and shoulder room, how much space there is for the console, etc. I presume the actual FFR design team is way ahead of us. It is good that they have declared that the goal is to “get it right” and that the schedule is flexible to that end. They have an advantage here over the big corporation and its hard schedule.

[kach22i]

Does any one like the Mini's interior? Quite polarizing, love it or hate it. It would take me a while to get used to, it is different.

http://www.carbodydesign.com/archive/2006/10/15-new-mini-interior-design/
5257

Focusing on the arrangement of the instruments within the cockpit, the car’s developers attached utmost importance to simple and ergonomic control
by the driver. Hence, all control elements are in strict hierarchic arrangement as a function of their frequency of use and need for operation.

As far a concepts go I think their are a few floating around.

1. Everything is angled toward's driver, the driver is king, it's good to be the king.

2. Dual or mono cockpit treating driver and passenger as near equals experiencing a similarly shared or communal event.

3. A standard but clean, and clear traditional hierarchy with asymmetrical balance.

4. A pod/coffin/cocoon which surrounds both driver and passenger with a two peas in a pod type pocket or envelope.

5. Bare bones every thing is stripped down with a few instrument clusters floating mid-air on tubes/pendants/stems.

6. ............................any combination of the above.

EDIT: An original Mini interior
http://www.free-photos.biz/photographs/industry/instruments/229744_mini_interior_001.php
5258

[kach22i]

Here are some notes on how an interior might get designed at a corporation, for what it’s worth…
Nice post.

I'm assuming the process at FFR would be a little more similar to as shown in the Lotus Elise development video posted in this forum over the summer. The "Buck" at Lotus was set at the start for the driver's experience. I mentioned to an Elise owner that the car is hard to get in and out of so that must of meant the "Buck" somehow failed to address entry issues. He assured me that by his measure, that of being the driver in the pod, that the Buck worked and did it's job, the driver's experience is the measure of success, not egress/entry.

I'm pretty "hands on" and if in a similar situation might duct tape together cardboard tube rolls to represent the chassis frame before going on. I'm sure it would look silly and neighbors would be concerned for "my health", but I would not care if the end justified the means.

EDIT 10/16/11
Made interior template changes to the template I was using, posted details here:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?3292-Project-818-Design-Submissions/page5

http://s184.photobucket.com/albums/x295/kach22i/Automobile/
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x295/kach22i/Automobile/GKA-Seating-detail-3.jpg

Maybe following a method established by others will avoid long viewing distances to windshields, bumping heads, instrument pods too far (or too close), poorly placed shifters, super long dash boards, and a host of other things which can consume time and derail a project by being odd or out of place.

EDIT 10/19/11
Some nice interiors shown here:
http://www.autoconcept-reviews.com/motor_shows/paris-mondial-2010/events_paris-mondial-2010.html

Sample:
http://www.autoconcept-reviews.com/motor_shows/paris-mondial-2010/img-review/electrics-concept/citroen%20survolt%202.JPG

[Cooluser23]

I like "driver focused", but not to the point of excluding passengers.

See "K.I.T.T." from the '80's Knight Rider series.
http://www.firebirdtransamparts.com/adventure/2002tanats/disc%204/MVC-427S.JPG
http://image96.webshots.com/96/1/76/62/2914176620079378792oRRcow_ph.jpg
http://www.enterprise-dashboard.com/img/knight-rider-kitt-hi-res.jpg


It's always useful for a passenger to glance at the gauges, when the driver is busy, you know, driving. :p
It also opens up the cockpit quite a bit.

I was always fond of the Toyota Supra, '90's Mitsubishi Eclipse, Acura NSX, Lotus Evora, interiors.

[adesilva]

Lotus Evora is the exact interior I would love to have in this car. Simple yet gorgeous

[sonicrex]

A first attempt of a basic dash.

52285229

Bumping this.

[Xusia]

Looking at those picks reminds me of a burning question I've had forever: Why is reverse on the right side at the end of the shift pattern? I had 2 MGBs, and they have reverse on the lower left, which after using it I think is a MUCH better arrangement.
1. You are pulling the shifter toward you (not away) so it's just plain easier.
2. The shift from reverse to first is a natural one (essentially the same as from 2nd to 3rd).

It just makes so much more sense, yet the MGB is the only car I've ever seen that on. Baffling...

[scartaan]

71637164
I am submitting two pics- the first is the dash of the new Morgan 3-wheeler which has taken it's inspiration from the Bell & Ross aviation watch line.
The second is the interior of a Porsche RS 61- the X bracing inside the door will probably be similar to the 818.

[scartaan]

Click on the "Monterey 2010" JPG of my previous reply. This pic of a Porsche spyder is worth considering. Although stark in the extreme, it has its own appeal. The X bars inside the doors could be similar to the 818. These bars could be covered with leather and left exposed. Similar treatment of the bar between the seats could continue the theme and add a feeling of light weight and purposefulness to the roadster version. Exposed metal is something the Lotus "Elige'" has already done well. What do people think?

[Draco-REX]

I like driver-centric interiors. Though my plan is to keep my 818 simple and light which means a flat dash. But if I were making a daily, I would build out the dash a bit to make a console.

[Idesign]

7366

7365

[Xusia]

Doesn't get much more simple than that. I like the car too!

[GUNS]

Idesign, that interior looks perfect. The car design looks good too, I'd like to see more e-mails. Reminds me of the next gen Elise.

[PhyrraM]

I think it looks good too. However, I'm betting that even that console is too wide - based on the prototype chassis.

[Idesign]

I took some liberties going for more of a backbone chassis design to reduce sill size and stepover dimensions, perhaps creating some space to put the fuel. Just having some fun, not intended to fit existing or future chassis.

7371

[archull]

How about a design for the interior that has already been submitted??

http://i1130.photobucket.com/albums/m536/SW818/whetstone-011.jpg

[archull]

That is what I'm afraid of. The GTM interior looks like an afterthought and screams "kitcar". Of course with the open top design of the 818 the interior will be much more noticeable than it is in the low slung GTM. I would like to be able to part the 818 without immediately showing off the kit car nature of the car.

I'm fine with using the Subie gauge cluster. It's pretty, functional, and can be adapted to many interior designs. I also doubt most passer by's will immediately recognize it as a Subie cluster.

I wouldn't mind there being nothing but a blank gel coated panel to attach a racepack dash and a small tunnel to run the cables for the shifter in. This is a kit car, this is a cheaper project, its made to be fun to drive and not a high end luxury vehicle. People complain about the GTM interior in a car like the 818 but thats more of an interior than I would really expect. Granted in the GTM for the price level of a completed car and the beauty of the outside, the interior lacks a bit of finesse and culture but it makes up for it in other ways. No one who builds these cars can say they didn't know it going into the build, the interior is what it is and if you don't like it then build a new interior yourself.

[Xusia]

Who cares about the interior. They'll only be seeing the back end anyway... ;)

But seriously... To me, less is more. I like the idea of a spartan interior. It's less of a pain to work with, easier to keep clean (hopefully), and understated - just like the performance. As long as I can get the important guages and not just idiot lights - even if that's an option - I'll be happy.

[Benji]

So a Lotus Elise or 340R interior then.

[Xusia]

Those would be fine by me, though I will say I prefer the instruments actually mounted to the dash rather than a steering wheel pod. Easier to wire and a bit cleaner looking IMO.

[NonProfit]

I've not settled in on an interior yet, but did whip out a rough sketch last night that I quite liked.

However, I wanted to throw out an idea, it's not for me, but could make for a unique look. Imagine a dash which contained a single analogue speedometer. Then hide a Dakota Digital "6 Gauge Universal Oval Digital Instrument Panel (http://www.dakotadigital.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=product/product_id=228/category_id=69/home_id=59/mode=prod/prd228.htm)" behind a semi-opaque panel in the dash (think sunglasses). When the car is parked, the instrumentation is hidden; enroute it's all there. They also sell what they call "Expansion Modules (http://www.dakotadigital.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=results/category_id=646/mode=cat/cat646.htm)" which if I'm understanding their site correctly, lets you send additional readings to the display.

Again, not my thing, but could be a cool look if executed properly.

[305mouse]

I like your idea, I had a similar one. Change the speedometer to a tach and put in a HUD (heads up display) for the speedo.

[JAubin]

I've been wondering if anyone has developed an OBD-II adapter than can output ECU data to a tablet, ie Android or iPad. Would be pretty easy from there to create a MOTEC style
display, and also have navigation, shift lights, etc. all in one package. Might be an easy way to have a functional car, as well as keep the interior simple...

[PhyrraM]

I've been wondering if anyone has developed an OBD-II adapter than can output ECU data to a tablet, ie Android or iPad. .......

Yep, less than $20 for China made versions. Good ones are about $50. Google "ELM327" or "OBD2 blutooth"

[NonProfit]

I've been wondering if anyone has developed an OBD-II adapter than can output ECU data to a tablet, ie Android or iPad.

Sweet! Just when I'd figured out placement of all my gauges...now I must reconsider.

[JAubin]

Yep, less than $20 for China made versions. Good ones are about $50. Google "ELM327" or "OBD2 blutooth"

Cool, thanks for the info! So after some digging, here's an app that will output that data to an android device : http://torque-bhp.com/
Customizable themes that let you tweak the look... I'd hope to do something along the lines of a Motec display, ie : 8793

[bugeye_fever]

I just saw this over on MotoIQ, might fit your needs as well.

http://www.motoiq.com/magazine_articles/id/2479/plx-devices-kiwi-bluetooth--wireless-obdii-connection.aspx

[NonProfit]

Thanks, an iPad is the way to go.

However, I'm intrigued by the 1970 Vauxhall SRV (http://iedei.wordpress.com/2012/04/01/1970-vauxhall-srv/) 8927 and the 1972 Maserati Boomerang (http://iedei.wordpress.com/2012/03/30/interior-of-the-day-boomerang/) 8926 concepts.

[Xusia]

Those are both a bit on the crazy side for me! LOL

[scartaan]

http://www.autoblog.com/photos/scion-fr-s-speedster-by-cartel-customs/#photo-4956715/

This is an interior shot of the FR-S roadster concept that would work nicely for the 818. It could utilize the WRX instrument module and be used for right or left hand drive. The doors are also simple and even have the cross bracing!

[NonProfit]

Wondering how I could implement a passenger's grab handle like the Lamborghini Murcielago. 9623

[Smitty911]

You might also want to add a dead pedal for them as well.

Smitty

[kach22i]

Wondering how I could implement a passenger's grab handle like the Lamborghini Murcielago. 9623
I like that design. The built in handle for the passenger is a very nice touch.

It seems unfair that the driver has the steering wheel to hang on to, but the passenger is often left with nothing to brace themselves with.

The Porsche 356 Speedster had extra grab handles about the interior, and the early Vette's had a big bar built into the glove box. These are features sadly missing on most sports cars today. The closest you come is the ceiling mounted grab bars on Pickup trucks, so you can ease yourself down (mostly on 4WD models).