expanding foam tape?

[chopthebass]

I have a sealed roll of tape that I am being told is expanding, and it goes in front of hinges somewhere just before body goes on. I can't find this in the build manual. Can anyone point me in the right direction and give me details of exactly where this goes?

Cheers

[edwardb]

I don't have the manual in front of me, and I think the actual page number would vary between manual versions anyway. You should find it in the section about installing the body. It's a brief mention, but it's there in the manuals I've seen. It's intended to close the gap between the chassis (footboxes mainly) which is straight and the inside of the body which is curved. Without a good seal, you will get a bunch of hot air into the cockpit. It goes roughly in front of the door hinges from the top to the bottom. If you look at where the gap would be with the body on, you can visualize where it should go. Note that a lot of builders don't use this product either because they missed it or prefer something else. There are other methods to seal the area. Easier before the body is on, but also possible after the body is installed. I've used it on two builds. On my last build I used air conditioner seal foam from Ace Hardware. Talked about it here: http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?18591-EdwardBs-Mk4-8674-20th-Anniversary-Build&p=266745&viewfull=1#post266745.

[Gumball]

Supposed to be installed vertically just in front of the hinges - the idea is that when it expands, it closes off the gap between the foot boxes and the body. Many builders find that some cut-down pool noodles work better to fill spot. I used a combination of both, but bought some expanding foam tape from McMaster-Carr that is a bit larger when expanded than what FFR provided. No problems with wind / heat from that area now.

[CDXXVII]

Look in the manual around page 383. At least that is where it is in mine.

There is a good picture that shows proper placement.

Here it is

"When you are ready to mount the body, unpack the expanding foam and run a small section up the
outside of each footbox just forward of the door hinge."

65590

[Jeff Kleiner]

The gooey stuff FFR provides does not spring enough to effectively fill the voids (plus it's just a royal pain to work with!) so I take a different approach and use medium soft foam weatherstripping intended for sealing window air conditioner units in their openings and then apply it using 3M Super 77 before installing the body.

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj43/jkleiner/Mk4%207276/100_2609.jpg

Run from the end of the bulb seal to the bottom of the footbox on the pasenger side:

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj43/jkleiner/Mk4%207276/100_2612.jpg

On the driver's side I run it all the way up and across the top of the footbox to meet the bulb seal at the cowl:

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj43/jkleiner/Mk4%207276/100_2610.jpg

It is soft enough to compress almost to nothing without deforming the body like can happen with the stiffer pool noodles yet springs enough to fill the gaps fully providing a good seal:

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj43/jkleiner/Mk4%207276/100_2618.jpg

Cheers,
Jeff

[Dave Howard]

Others have discussed the install location.
If you do ANY driving or touring you'll know this seal not only keeps the heat out....it keeps the cold out early in the morning or in the evening, and helps to keep moisture out when you get caught by the sudden cloud burst. I installed the expanding foam tape provided in the kit and found it had to be augmented in some areas to reduce the draft. I attempted to use "pool noodles" and tried foam insulation wrap for copper pipe but found it was hard to stuff this in place and cut out all the draft. I wound up using good old fashion expanding foam from a spray can. With a long enough nozzle you can apply the appropriate amount of material where needed. It completely sealed the body around the foot boxes and was hidden entirely under the body. Since there are always prying eyes at car shows, I used some flat black spray paint to cover any exposed foam. 100% seal - No air infiltration and no moisture into the cockpit. Can you put a price on warm and dry when you put 1,000 to 1,200 kilometres on the car in a day???

I think that Kleiner fellow has the best approach.

[chopthebass]

Thanks guys. I like Jeffs idea of thicker material. That's the route ill go!

[AC Bill]

[QUOTE=Dave Howard;273066 I wound up using good old fashion expanding foam from a spray can. With a long enough nozzle you can apply the appropriate amount of material where needed. [/QUOTE]

So did you apply this spray type expanding foam from the cockpit side, or from the engine compartment? I may have to go this route, as my body is already on. I never installed any of the weatherstrip supplied, thinking I would stuff some pipe insulation in instead, but that looks to be easier said than done.

[wallace18]

I have used pool noodles in this area after body is on car and painted with excellent results. You can cut them to fit then spray with rubber seal and have no air coming from engine area to cockpit. Cheap fix. IMO.

[Dave Howard]

So did you apply this spray type expanding foam from the cockpit side, or from the engine compartment? I may have to go this route, as my body is already on. I never installed any of the weatherstrip supplied, thinking I would stuff some pipe insulation in instead, but that looks to be easier said than done.

I think your situation is a little more difficult. On the drivers side, the sealing insulation extends to the top of, and onto the horizontal top of the foot box. This is difficult to access and seal with the body on.
In my situation, I used a strong light from the engine bay to see where air was coming into the cockpit. As it turned out, there was a spot on both sides that was accessible with the doors open and a long tube on the spray foam can. A couple of squirts and there was no more light coming through. This followed by flat black paint and no one knows the better. More importantly, no more cold air blowing into the cockpit.

[smithbks]

I'm with AC Bill on needing to install it body on. My painter either forgot or overlooked the foam I gave him. I don't want to mess with the body. What is the best way and material to use for body on install?

[Jeff Kleiner]

... What is the best way and material to use for body on install?

I've stuffed the foam I mentioned in post #5 into the void with the body installed (on my own car in fact). Best? Can't say but it worked.

Jeff

[canuck1]

I've stuffed foam into the void(s) with the body installed as well and while it has worked well for sealing the cockpit, it is possible to get too much foam in the wrong place, if you aren't careful. If your door/body gaps are as tight as some people like to set them, it doesn't take much distortion of the body side to create a conflict with the door as it swings open. You could ask me how I know but I will deny being dumb enough to do it! Just hoping to save others from one of those "oh $hit!" moments. Observe your gaps carefully before and after, check them again the next day and be very cautious about opening the door all the way until you can be sure your foam stuffing hasn't created an issue.

Sean

[AC Bill]

I've stuffed the foam I mentioned in post #5 into the void with the body installed (on my own car in fact). Best? Can't say but it worked.
Jeff

From the engine side of the foot box's or from the cockpit, Jeff or Sean? Either way it doesn't look like there is great access. Must need a piece of doweling or something, to stuff it in there, as my hand sure won't fit..

[canuck1]

From the engine side of the foot box's or from the cockpit, Jeff or Sean? Either way it doesn't look like there is great access. Must need a piece of doweling or something, to stuff it in there, as my hand sure won't fit..

You can do it from either side but it's easier to get a more complete seal by removing the elephant ear/splash guard and pushing the foam back towards the cockpit. I used a light on the cockpit side to help identify any openings that remained and then added foam to those areas. Yes, it helps to have a stick of some sort to be able to get into the narrower areas (Mk IV body is tighter than MK III in that spot from what I've seen). I wouldn't have the nerve to try expanding spray foam etc. after my earlier experience. :eek: Take your time, block the openings but don't cram it in so tight it pushes the body out.

Sean

[AC Bill]

Thanks for the tips Sean.

So the next question would be closed cell vs open cell foam rubber.

Closed cell, such as that used in pool noodles, and water pipe insulation, is waterproof, but much stiffer, and less compression-able.
Open cell foam is easily compressed, which lessens the chance of distorting the body, and would likely be easy to insert. Unfortunately it would soak up water like a sponge. I would worry it might even sag, if it became waterlogged.

[rich grsc]

Thanks for the tips Sean.

So the next question would be closed cell vs open cell foam rubber.

Closed cell, such as that used in pool noodles, and water pipe insulation, is waterproof, but much stiffer, and less compression-able.
Open cell foam is easily compressed, which lessens the chance of distorting the body, and would likely be easy to insert. Unfortunately it would soak up water like a sponge. I would worry it might even sag, if it became waterlogged.

Sorry no it doesn't soak up water, and its in a location that won't get wet unless you drive under water.

[canuck1]

Not surprisingly, the stuff JKleiner recommends is the best type of stuff I've used! It expands to fill voids without a huge amount of pressure that some products can exert. I can get a similar product locally at Home Depot:

https://www.homedepot.ca/en/home/p.air-conditioner-foam-seal.1000118018.html

In my first attempt, I used a similar style to the 'expanding' type of foam FFR provides. I jammed it in pretty tight, it worked as advertised and pushed the body outwards when it expanded :eek:. I ended up with a nasty scuff on the body just forward of the door opening! Ugh. That was an expensive little fix for me. Thankfully (?), I got a second try to do it right, after learning that lesson. Pool noodle type foam is pretty safe to use and more moisture-resistant but I tried it on one side and spent quite a bit of time trimming it to fit. The air conditioner foam seal is easier and more adaptable to small openings etc.

PS, it CAN get wet. Add enough rain, I mean REAL west coast rain and every single thing on the car CAN get wet! I have replaced some of the foam after one memorable episode of rain in biblical proportions while encountering slow-moving traffic on the highway ride home!!!

Sean

[KDubU]

I also used the AC seal foam from Ace. Mined did not carry the exact one in Jeff's picture though but it worked much better than the pipe insulation that I used temporarily while driving in gel coat.