The track day thread

[Hindsight]

It seems there are a few folks who are running through 818S or 818R on road race tracks, yet no single thread where people are posting their experiences, tips, tricks, suggestions, setups, etc. I figured I would create one here.

Things that would be helpful to discuss:
- Spring rates
- Alignment settings
- Sway bar usage
- Tires and air pressure
- Aero
- Lap times
- Comparison with other cars
- Video/Pictures
- Opinions on performance, balance, strengths, weaknesses, etc
- Issues/Problems

As I get more time today or tomorrow, I'll post my very limited observations and some pics and video. I've only run three track days with my 818S so far, and they were back to back, so I didn't have the time to make any changes or adjustments. Hoping to run another event very soon so I can test out the many changes I have made over the winter.

Let's hear those stories and accounts!

[mikeb75]

My new favorite thread! Seriously Jonesing to post here! thanks Hindsight

[Mitch Wright]

We are just getting started for the season, I will have my car out on Monday. My set up is on my build thread, I have just made a spring change from 300-350 fronts but been too cool to test. I also have #400-450 frt springs and 550-600 for the rear. I am currently running 2* angle of attack on the wing and have the rebound set in the middle.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?15436-My-818R-Project-has-arrived/page6

[FFRSpec72]

We are just getting started for the season, I will have my car out on Monday. My set up is no my build thread, I have just made a spring change from 300-350 fronts but been too cool to test. I also have #400-450 frt springs and 550-600 for the rear. I am currently running 2* angle of attack on the wing and have the rebound set in the middle.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?15436-My-818R-Project-has-arrived/page6

How high off the rear deck is your wing ?

[Mitch Wright]

Tony, it has been a while and remember the measurement off the deck. Nice w I am I have to check ��

[Hindsight]

I'm going to start posting my track updates here instead of in my build thread I think.

Did some sessions yesterday and today at Road Atlanta.

Harry's Lap Timer totally failed me today, and failed to record my most entertaining session. I didn't get any crazy fast lap times that session but I was driving well and passing people right and left. I actually lapped a couple Miatas, for whatever that is worth heh. Harry's Lap Timer was supposed to record video and automatically record lap times. It recorded laps (no video) for ONE session today, but failed to even start on the other sessions. Another racer told me that you need an external GPS device for Harry's app to work properly. I had a backup lap timer app that I used in other sessions, and failed back to my Go Pro. Unfortunately, the mount I used for the GoPro sucked. You get a great view of the windshield frame, but below is the only video I got all weekend. Something is better than nothing. I'm going to work on a better mount.

My best time today was 1:45 which was 4 seconds faster than my previous best last year. There is a lot left in the car. I'm running a low-boost tune, and need more seat time.

The car feels good. I feel like I should be pulling more lateral G's though (1.0 is the highest I saw), even on the street tires (Direzza Z2 Star Specs). The only time it scares me is going 120+ down the back straight - there is a hill crest you go over and you have to turn a tiny amount while going over it. The car feels a bit squirrely there. I need to block out the lower radiator opening and finish the splitter install by connecting it with the sheet aluminum near the battery. That may help the car stay a bit more stable at high speeds.

With the bump steer fixed and the heavier springs, I can pound curbs without upsetting the car. The car feels fairly balanced to me. I can't decide if it tends to over or understeer.... all I know is that I feel I can modulate it fairly well with the throttle, but I think I might go with a bigger front sway bar or lighten up the rear springs a bit to see what happens. For spring rates, I think I'm going to just pick a suspension frequency that I think would be ideal, then calculate which springs to run to achieve that. I think around 1.8hz to 1.9hz would be good for the 818 but am open to opinions. I'll keep the red koni shocks.

Really unhappy with the brakes. Spongy, vague, high pedal effort. I could probably shave several seconds off my lap times by sorting the brakes - I am just not confident with them now so end up braking way early. I'm going to need a new set of pads before my next track day at the end of April so I'm open to suggestions. Good pads are easier to find for the Brembos but seem hard to find for the 4/2 pots that I have. Am thinking about some CarboTech XP8 or XP10s. I may also install my 7/8" master cylinder if I have time.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijJiEXNe3P4&t=1s


http://i.imgur.com/7bsJZ5dh.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/0cesHKoh.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/FwAO4mSh.jpg

[Mitch Wright]

Get yourself a AIM Solo, it also has some data logging capabilities and IMO much better than Harry's.
if you are using a lot of curb you could be getting some pad kickback if the pedal gets long sometimes. Just reach over with your left foot and lightly give the brake pedal a few taps to set the pads on the straights.
I don't believe you need a very aggressive pad on these cars due to the light weight. I am running AP brakes/rotor kit from a BRZ, a kit to consider if you decide to make a change. My experience with the OEM Subaru brakes are the few times I have driven Bob and Michaels car and I though they work pretty well.
6567765678 The front calipers are a bolt on, I am using the same set up on the rear but you need to make a adaptor.
65679 I am really happy with my brake performance, a other difference to our set up's is I have a Wilwood pedal assembly.

[Hindsight]

Thanks for the reply Mitch. I would love an AIM solo but boy are they pricey! However, given that I may have to spend $150 on an external GPS to make Harry's app work properly, it becomes not quite as expensive in reality.

As for the brakes, everything tells me the brakes I have should be more than adequate, as you point out, but for some reason, they just aren't. I have the master cylinder pushrod hole moved up on the brake pedal even higher than FFR suggests, for more leverage. This helped, but also increases the pedal travel to the point of making the brakes feel spongy. My Ferrodo front pads are nearly gone so I'm going to get some Hawk Race pads or Carbotech XP8 or XP10, and also put a smaller bore master cylinder in place (7/8" vs 1") and move the master cylinder pushrod hole back down to the FFR suggested spot. Hoping the pads provide better bite, and the new master gives me more leverage without the spongy feel.

Those look like serious brakes you have Mitch! I wish I had the wilwood pedal cluster. With the smaller master cylinder bores and the nice bias balance bar, it is a really ideal setup for performance and adjustability. It's just too late and costly for me to switch to, and I also want to keep my ABS.

[FFRSpec72]

I am running carbotech XP10 pads and no issues and I got the pre bed pads so much easier

[Hindsight]

Thanks Tony. How loud are the XP10 pads?

[RetroRacing]

Is that the stock brake system that uses such a huge master? Our willwoods are 3/4" front and back (rear engine car) using 5:1 ratio pedal assembly and the brakes will pull your eyeballs out every time.

We use hawks, but love love love the Xp pads for rotor wear.

[Mitch Wright]

FYI as pads get skinny they are more prone to kick back. Sounds like you have a good plan of attack to address what you are experiencing. When you get things sorted out and feel like a road trip we are 4.5 hours from you, head west for Bowling Green and check out NCM Motorsports Park.

[Hindsight]

Retro: Yes the stock power brake system on the 06/07 uses 1" master. I don't know what the pedal ratio is though, without measuring. How is the pedal effort on the wilwoods? Which Hawks are you running?

Mitch, NCMP keeps coming up in conversation with everyone I know... not sure why but not a week has gone by in the last two months without someone I know talking about going there. I need to get a trailer - it would help me go to more events that are more than 3 hours drive. But I don't have the $4k to invest in an enclosed trailer just yet. Maybe later this year or early next year? I do have a truck now that I can tow one with so I am making steps forward. In the meantime, let me know if you ever come down here.... Road Atlanta, Atlanta Motorsports Park, Roebling Road, or Barber.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

FYI as pads get skinny they are more prone to kick back. Sounds like you have a good plan of attack to address what you are experiencing. When you get things sorted out and feel like a road trip we are 4.5 hours from you, head west for Bowling Green and check out NCM Motorsports Park.

Mike and I will meet you at NCM.
Bob

[lclevert]

Hindsight, looks like you had a nice day at RA. I love that track. I'm just about finished with my R and scheduled to take it to Barber at the end of next month with PCA. My only real drive time in it has been around the neighborhood. I can't really get it too fast as the old ladies will take pictures of me and put on the neighborhood facebook. Looking forward to a good shakedown that weekend.

Skip

[Hindsight]

That's awesome Skip! Another R completed. You are close to Wayne Presley..... I'm sure you'll run into him at some track events. I know he goes to Barber a lot. I need to get out there. What does it cost to run with the PCA events? If it's feasible, I may show up and race too.

On an unrelated note, but still related to racing, I got a ride in a 660WHP Nissan GTR during the track event. It had 200 treadwear tires (like mine), a small bit of aero, and good brake pads. All I can say is holy sh*t. He was running 1:33 in it and it was just insane. Very violent. The car could not be unsettled. You could brake while turning hard as you slammed over a curb and it just keeps glued to the pavement. The amount of grip the car had..... the speed it would carry through turns 12 and 1.... I was holding on for dear life thinking for sure we were going into the wall. I used to think that lighter cars have the advantage on the track (assuming equal power to weight ratios etc), but I have learned over the past year that this is just not the case. Heck, a new 3,500lb Corvette will do 1:29 at Road Atlanta on street tires.

[lclevert]

I think its like $450 for the weekend. You can check clubregistration.net. Let me know if you decide to go and I'll get myself assigned to ride with you.

Skip

[Hindsight]

Thanks Skip. I just checked and that is the same weekend that I am going to be at Roebling Road. Keep me posted on other track days you are planning on attending in hopes that we can sync up at one. Also looking forward to your thoughts, pics, and hopefully video in this thread after your track day with the 818R!

Here is an action shot from the track day:
http://i.imgur.com/eFzrFPbh.jpg

[Hindsight]

I'll post some more video and pics when I have more time to process them, but here is one for now. My fastest lap of the weekend at Roebling Road Raceway. This was one of the very rare laps where I didn't have traffic.

On a related note, what's a good free video editor that supports HD video? I have the GoPro one but it only works on video recorded on a GoPro. I used to use windows movie maker but it seems they have phased that out and you can only download it from third party sites which I always feel sketchy about.


http://youtu.be/GuR6JvczLL8

[Mitch Wright]

Looks Like Fun

[Hindsight]

Thanks Bob

[Hindsight]

Here is another video, this time of several laps. I was first in line for this run group and my friend's dad was behind me in his e36 which is basically prepped for Spec E36. He is a really good driver and faster than me through the turns. If it weren't for my having a better power to weight ratio, he would have walked away from me for sure. I let off and gave him the point-by on the front straight so I could chase him. That's where the video starts. The rest is us duking it out and passing the cars we caught up to.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ld-WIMLXufU

[Hindsight]

More video.

This time, Wayne went out in a mini lol. He was helping a driver learn the lines so I followed from behind to learn the line Wayne likes to take at this track. Pretty sure the Mini was bone stock (Wayne can correct me if I'm wrong). The amazing thing is, while I did have to stay off the gas in the straights, I couldn't keep up with him in the mini through the corners. Goes to show you how big of a difference the driver makes and Wayne is VERY fast. To further the point, notice me passing the GT3 and 911. You can tell the GT3 was not pushing it as there was no sliding at any point that I saw. Probably driving at like 6 tenths.


http://youtu.be/lif-2S__5ow

http://i.imgur.com/MeL3AK4h.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/fKEe8czh.jpg

[Hindsight]

Spent the day at Road Atlanta yesterday for a DE day. Was lots of fun though I spun out on two different sessions on the same corner: turn 7. I've never had a problem with it but got frustrated at how slow it feels so I was pushing it a bit and experimenting with hitting it differently. Aside from that, it was fun and I ran a 1:45.8 which I thought was a new PB but in looking at my track logs, I realized I ran a 1:45.6 earlier in the year there. Close though!

Got to run with some Spec E46 cars and couldn't believe how fast they were. I had to let off the gas a bit to let them pass, and they were on slicks, but really fast cars.

Still not happy with the brakes. Not sure what is going on with them but after two or three hard high-speed (125mph down to probably 60mph) slow-downs, they get soft and lose their bite. Running Carbo-tech XP10 pads with Motul 600 fluid on 07 WRX brakes. After they get a bit soft and lose their bite, I can still race and stop from high speeds, but it requires a lot more pedal effort and I don't have near the stopping power I do before they soften. I may install some brake cooling ducts but feel like that shouldn't be what is required given how light the car is. I'm kind of out of ideas.

Here is a video of one of the sessions. It ended early due to red-flag - my friend wrecked his miata :( I need to change the camera mount away from the dash because the das

http://youtu.be/6XT8CG59Ugg?t=3s


And a few pics:
http://i.imgur.com/nSpg4BUh.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/V0aaJi1h.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/TXx40ryh.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/ejDgmfQh.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/SSxwpr4h.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/8U3xPhWh.jpg

[NevaLift2Shift]

Spent the day at Road Atlanta yesterday for a DE day. Was lots of fun though I spun out on two different sessions on the same corner: turn 7. I've never had a problem with it but got frustrated at how slow it feels so I was pushing it a bit and experimenting with hitting it differently. Aside from that, it was fun and I ran a 1:45.8 which I thought was a new PB but in looking at my track logs, I realized I ran a 1:45.6 earlier in the year there. Close though!

Got to run with some Spec E46 cars and couldn't believe how fast they were. I had to let off the gas a bit to let them pass, and they were on slicks, but really fast cars.

Still not happy with the brakes. Not sure what is going on with them but after two or three hard high-speed (125mph down to probably 60mph) slow-downs, they get soft and lose their bite. Running Carbo-tech XP10 pads with Motul 600 fluid on 07 WRX brakes. After they get a bit soft and lose their bite, I can still race and stop from high speeds, but it requires a lot more pedal effort and I don't have near the stopping power I do before they soften. I may install some brake cooling ducts but feel like that shouldn't be what is required given how light the car is. I'm kind of out of ideas.

Here is a video of one of the sessions. It ended early due to red-flag - my friend wrecked his miata :( I need to change the camera mount away from the dash because the das


How old is the fluid? It sounds like fluid to me. Motul 600 is good stuff, but if you want to eliminate fluid as a cause, run Castrol SRF, just make sure you remove all of the old fluid. Never ran those pads, but they should be up to the task. Maybe the pads and rotors are glazed.

[fastzrex]

Hindsight, also make sure you are not bottoming out your master cylinder or your pedal hitting something hard at the firewall. Sure looks like a good time!

[Hindsight]

Thanks for the replies guys. Definitely not bottoming out the master cylinder or pedal hitting the firewall. The brake fluid is very new.... couple months old at most. Thanks for the tip on Castrol SRF..... I may pick some of that up - I just hate spending money on expensive brake fluids because when you bleed the brakes, you get to watch some of it leave the car lol! I don't think the pads and rotors are glazed though, because the brakes come back after the car cools down between sessions. I do have a bias valve on the front brakes, dialed to let the rear brakes do more work than they would otherwise. Perhaps I have it adjusted to where the rears are doing TOO much work and they are overheating a bit. I may try backing the proportion valve all the way off and seeing if it makes any change.

I am starting to understand the allure of the Wilwood brake setup (with pedal box). While I still feel that the WRX brakes have enough stopping power for the light 818, the Wilwoods get you a balance bar to properly dial in front to rear bias, and the size of the rotors front and rear provides a much better balance. Only issue is no e-Brake and you can't run ABS :(

[DMC7492]

Hindsight, go back and read the ABS update thread, post 42.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?15282-Any-ABS-updates-Anyone-have-it-working
I am running the wrx replacement Wilwoods and they work great with ABS and E brakes both hooked up!

[Hindsight]

Thanks for the reply. It's great to know that the wilwoods will work fairly well with ABS and the factory pedal box. So the FFR rear wilwoods will work ok with the factory e-brake? I did see on the wilwood website that they do make a rear kit that works with the factory e-brake but the FFRParts website mentions nothing about whether it retains the factory e-brake or not.

[DMC7492]

I did not get them through FFR. I looked the part number up on the Wilwoods sight and then ordered through a independent shop. The factory rear backing plate with the Drum E brakes are used. Slight modification to the backing plates is required.

[Hindsight]

Ok cool thanks for the additional info. Good to know there are multiple options.