Body Work Advise

[RickP]

Ok Gents, I reached the stage where I am sitting back taking a big gulp of humble pie. Should I take on the body work myself or pass it off to someone who knows what they are doing? That's my quandary at the moment.

I've reached the point in the build where all the focus is now on the body. My original intention was to fit the body and all exterior fixtures and get the #112211 Pennsylvania road legal, drive it around in gelcoat for the summer, then make the decision in the off season. That said, I borrowed my buddy this past weekend and we fitted the body for the first time. Sure looked good to me at first. But looking at the detail of fitment, my side pipes don't hit the side cutouts. The passenger side looks good but the drivers header is too high and too far forward. After doing some searching, I see where I can level the motor which I think it will get me in the ballpark. As for the DR header being too far forward, I can see the body itself needs to move forward somewhat. After landing on a Jeff Kliener post, I should be able to move the body forward enough so the rear cockpit sidewall should be forward of the door lock brackets. The passenger clears but the DR doesn't. What I failed to do before fitting the body is trim back the dash lip and rear cockpit wall lip. That would enable me to move it forward slightly. Another issue on the rear is the side wall aluminum needing to be trimmed (I have the bulb seals installed) and they are crushed at this point in the body.

So that brings me to the advise stage of my blabbering. If I'm going to be trimming these areas, should I just "go all the way". Seems to me it's a cause and effect situation. My wheel/tires up front hit the wheel well perfectly. If I move the body forward, now the wheel well may need to be addressed.

I have absolutely no clue when it comes to body work. Example: To cut back the cowl edge straight, I would clamp a straight edge to it and use a drum sander or belt sander and just sand off up to the straight edge. I have no clue if this is a good method to use.

Now that I am investing in body work tools, I feel like I should chew off whatever I can.

Is there any one thread on this forum or the other that can be followed that details out for the beginner to overcome the basic body work? What tools should I focus on? Is HSRF a foundation builder and Rage used to go over the foundation?

I'm almost tempted to take a night school class at the local community college in order to learn some basics. EdwardB's Anniversary thread was a good start where he lays out "what" to cut back. But Paul is all in when he reaches this stage and I have no where near the skills he does.

ANY advise would be very welcome and much appreciated.:o

[blitzkreig baja]

Jeff Kleiner has a good thread devoted to body work. You could search that for some info.

[carlewms]

Rick,

For a different reason ($) ... I ended up deciding to do my own body work ... without any experience as well.

I share my experience so far in my build thread. http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?9583-Carl-s-Mk-4-Roadster-Build.

Jeff K Da Bat have been walking my way through the process. There is a ton of info on the web. I have made some mistakes but have been able to fix them so far.

Carl

[Indy Shu]

It depends on how big of a hurry you are in. Those experienced with these cars know exactly what to do and could do all the trimming and fitting very quickly. I did all of my fitting a little bit at a time and it took a looong time, but turned out well.

[edwardb]

Thanks for the shout out regarding my build thread. Some thoughts to add to those already made. A lot depends on what's going to happen down the road. I assume once you're done driving it in gel coat you will have a pro do the final body work and paint? And they will do it body off? If so, I wouldn't get crazy doing a lot of trimming if you aren't comfortable with it. The body will go on the chassis pretty much as is. You can trim the doors, hood, and trunk lid just enough to get them to fit. Even if a gap is too tight and something is rubbing, doesn't hurt too much if before paint.

Even though I've done my own body trim and panel fit three times now, it still takes me a long time. Days actually. Pros do the same thing in a matter of hours. And in most cases, they would prefer us beginners not do the work. They will all tell you they've had multiple examples of it being worse afterwards. Easy to take material off. Not so easy to put it back on. Same thing with applying product to the body. I would be careful about that unless you're planning to paint it. At the very least, check first. Using HSRF to bond parts, repair something, etc. is typically OK. Likely they would use the same thing. But I personally wouldn't apply any Rage or other body filler if you're not going to paint it yourself. Even if a shop will agree to paint after you've put product on the body, they may limit their warranty coverage.

I wouldn't get crazy with the tools required for the rough body work. With just a couple tools and pretty rough grit paper, I find the vinylester bodies really easy to work with. As an old woodworker, it's like about the softest wood you would work with. Sanding drums with 80 grit paper in a hand drill cut just about everything very quickly. Same thing with a belt sander and 80 grit paper. But be real careful. Takes off a lot of material very quickly. I use a Dremel with their small sanding drums for the small stuff. Also works very quickly. I don't try to put a straight edge on anything first. I draw lines with a Sharpie and work to the lines with whatever power or hand tool that's appropriate. Just take a little at a time. For long straight edges, after a power tool, I put a piece of 80 grit on a long sanding bar and get it straight by hand. With the right grit and sharp paper it's surprisingly easy. You will go through a lot of sandpaper doing these bodies. Resin fills paper very quickly. When it stops cutting, replace it. IMO many don't fully take this into account, and keep sanding with basically worn out or filled paper.

Exhaust cutouts are a challenge for many builds it seems. Lots of threads on the subject. Yes, it's something you need to get sorted out. If your engine needs to be tweaked, that's discussed a lot. I loosen the big nut on the engine mounts, put a floor jack under the low header, apply upward pressure with the floor jack, and re-tighten the nuts. It doesn't take much movement to change the header and subsequent pipe locations. In the end, it's possible they won't be exactly the same on both sides. Get it the best you can, and if within reason, will never be seen. Also realize the cutouts are intentionally undersized (for J-pipes) and with 4-into-4's, do require some cutting. Go really slow using the pipes to check as you go. You'll find the actual cut-outs are below and behind what you can see of the headers through the opening. Due to the curve of the pipes.

Finally, regarding body position. If the rear door body lip is fitting next to the door latches, and your wheel wells are centered on the wheels, I wouldn't be doing anything else very extreme. On my just completed build, I didn't have to trim any aluminum to get mine in that position. Including the rear trunk sides or bottom trunk lip. But I also understand many find it quite normal to trim both. Do what is necessary, but I would really be cautious about taking too much. A little at a time, fitting as you go. Maybe it's just me, but I have the body on and off multiple times getting everything fitted the way I want. For the dash lip, I haven't found too much trimming is necessary there other than to get it straight and clean. For the rear cockpit lip, it also needs to be straightened, but likely will need to have some trimmed off to get it over the rear cockpit wall once it's carpeted. Especially in the area of the seat belt exits. Not a lot of flex there.

Hope this helps and good luck.

[RickP]

Thanks for the shout out regarding my build thread. Some thoughts to add to those already made. A lot depends on what's going to happen down the road. I assume once you're done driving it in gel coat you will have a pro do the final body work and paint? And they will do it body off? If so, I wouldn't get crazy doing a lot of trimming if you aren't comfortable with it. The body will go on the chassis pretty much as is. You can trim the doors, hood, and trunk lid just enough to get them to fit. Even if a gap is too tight and something is rubbing, doesn't hurt too much if before paint.

Even though I've done my own body trim and panel fit three times now, it still takes me a long time. Days actually. Pros do the same thing in a matter of hours. And in most cases, they would prefer us beginners not do the work. They will all tell you they've had multiple examples of it being worse afterwards. Easy to take material off. Not so easy to put it back on. Same thing with applying product to the body. I would be careful about that unless you're planning to paint it. At the very least, check first. Using HSRF to bond parts, repair something, etc. is typically OK. Likely they would use the same thing. But I personally wouldn't apply any Rage or other body filler if you're not going to paint it yourself. Even if a shop will agree to paint after you've put product on the body, they may limit their warranty coverage.

I wouldn't get crazy with the tools required for the rough body work. With just a couple tools and pretty rough grit paper, I find the vinylester bodies really easy to work with. As an old woodworker, it's like about the softest wood you would work with. Sanding drums with 80 grit paper in a hand drill cut just about everything very quickly. Same thing with a belt sander and 80 grit paper. But be real careful. Takes off a lot of material very quickly. I use a Dremel with their small sanding drums for the small stuff. Also works very quickly. I don't try to put a straight edge on anything first. I draw lines with a Sharpie and work to the lines with whatever power or hand tool that's appropriate. Just take a little at a time. For long straight edges, after a power tool, I put a piece of 80 grit on a long sanding bar and get it straight by hand. With the right grit and sharp paper it's surprisingly easy. You will go through a lot of sandpaper doing these bodies. Resin fills paper very quickly. When it stops cutting, replace it. IMO many don't fully take this into account, and keep sanding with basically worn out or filled paper.

Exhaust cutouts are a challenge for many builds it seems. Lots of threads on the subject. Yes, it's something you need to get sorted out. If your engine needs to be tweaked, that's discussed a lot. I loosen the big nut on the engine mounts, put a floor jack under the low header, apply upward pressure with the floor jack, and re-tighten the nuts. It doesn't take much movement to change the header and subsequent pipe locations. In the end, it's possible they won't be exactly the same on both sides. Get it the best you can, and if within reason, will never be seen. Also realize the cutouts are intentionally undersized (for J-pipes) and with 4-into-4's, do require some cutting. Go really slow using the pipes to check as you go. You'll find the actual cut-outs are below and behind what you can see of the headers through the opening. Due to the curve of the pipes.

Finally, regarding body position. If the rear door body lip is fitting next to the door latches, and your wheel wells are centered on the wheels, I wouldn't be doing anything else very extreme. On my just completed build, I didn't have to trim any aluminum to get mine in that position. Including the rear trunk sides or bottom trunk lip. But I also understand many find it quite normal to trim both. Do what is necessary, but I would really be cautious about taking too much. A little at a time, fitting as you go. Maybe it's just me, but I have the body on and off multiple times getting everything fitted the way I want. For the dash lip, I haven't found too much trimming is necessary there other than to get it straight and clean. For the rear cockpit lip, it also needs to be straightened, but likely will need to have some trimmed off to get it over the rear cockpit wall once it's carpeted. Especially in the area of the seat belt exits. Not a lot of flex there.

Hope this helps and good luck.

It does help Paul. Immensely.

[RickP]

Rick,

For a different reason ($) ... I ended up deciding to do my own body work ... without any experience as well.

I share my experience so far in my build thread. http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?9583-Carl-s-Mk-4-Roadster-Build.

Jeff K Da Bat have been walking my way through the process. There is a ton of info on the web. I have made some mistakes but have been able to fix them so far.

Carl


I will be looking over your progress this weekend. If I lived on the west coast I would just get on J. Millers schedule and be done with it. A local shop here in Pottstown PA gave me a ball park quote (based on his experience with a previous non FF roadster build) of 20K. I darn near passed out.

[mmklaxer]

MetalMorphous in CT does a lot of factory fives and the paint looks fantastic. 4 hr drive is definitely worth if, if you're looking for someone to do paint. I'm sure the price is more in line with what it should be, as opposed to 20K. When I spoke to Ron, the price was as expected. The photos people post of their work is top notch.

[carbon fiber]

I noticed a belt sander was mentioned earlier... I've never used a belt sander on a car, ever. D/A sander for cars, and be careful with any powered sanding device being a novice.

[edwardb]

I noticed a belt sander was mentioned earlier... I've never used a belt sander on a car, ever. D/A sander for cars, and be careful with any powered sanding device being a novice.

Since I mentioned it I'll respond... I use it to trim edges. Held vertically it works very well to trim to a line. Hood, trunk, doors, body lips, etc. That was the context of the comment. Agreed, would not be appropriate on the actual body surface. Also agreed, wouldn't recommend for someone who hasn't used one before.

[Mark Dougherty]

Hi Rick
give me a ring
I would be glad to help out

[carbon fiber]

edwardb: I get what you're saying, I could see in my head someone taking one to the surface

[RickP]

I pulled the body off and trimmed the dash cowl lip, rear cockpit cowl lip and re-installed the body. I also relieved a little lip off the engine bay surround. Seems to be a better fit now. I still have some fitment issues in that the hood needs some attention to "fall" into the hood opening a little better.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=64972&d=1489343139

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=64973&d=1489343141

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=64974&d=1489343144

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=64977&d=1489343152

Looking down at rear of drivers door opening right where the lock plate is.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=64975&d=1489343146

passenger side:

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=64976&d=1489343149

[RickP]

As for the header openings.

Passenger:

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=64971&d=1489343136

Driver:

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=64970&d=1489343135




The motor is already level. Well, lets just say all things considered, from the floor up to the bottom of each header is exactly equal. Not sure if I should rock the motor to to ease the amount to be trimmed or just leave it be. Either case, I will need to trim these openings.


Last little issue the Breeze hidden hinge. The passenger side is hitting the body when opened all the way. I figured the next time the body comes off I can move the bracket underneath up towards the sky a little. The brackets themselves are as high as they will go.

Driver side:

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=64979&d=1489343155

Passenger:

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=64978&d=1489343154

[RickP]

Hi Rick
give me a ring
I would be glad to help out

I sent you a PM Mark. Totally forgot your in my neck of the woods.

[edwardb]

Your pipe alignment looks really good to me. I don't know why you would want to move the engine at this point. The rough openings are not the same size. The distance from the bottom of the body to the bottom of the headers appears very close side-to-side. You said they are close to the same distance to the ground as well. Most builders would kill for that alignment. Those should open up for the side pipes and be fine.

For the hood, tape some bumpers or other kind of spacers around the perimeter of the hood opening so that the hood can only drop far enough to be flush with the body. Then start trimming until it drops down flush all around. You don't want to trim it to fit at the bottom of the opening. Can't help with the Breeze hinges. Have only used the standard FF ones.

[RickP]

Your pipe alignment looks really good to me. I don't know why you would want to move the engine at this point. The rough openings are not the same size. The distance from the bottom of the body to the bottom of the headers appears very close side-to-side. You said they are close to the same distance to the ground as well. Most builders would kill for that alignment. Those should open up for the side pipes and be fine.

For the hood, tape some bumpers or other kind of spacers around the perimeter of the hood opening so that the hood can only drop far enough to be flush with the body. Then start trimming until it drops down flush all around. You don't want to trim it to fit at the bottom of the opening. Can't help with the Breeze hinges. Have only used the standard FF ones.



Thank you Paul. I will start with the hood first and leave the side pipe openings alone. Glad you chimed in because my next move was to trim the hood "as is" until it did drop in place. I will temp the bumpers in place and trim from there.

[Mark Dougherty]

no problem Rick
anything I can do to get you there

[Gumball]

I did all my own bodywork - never did it before. For me, it ended up being the best part of the build and the most rewarding.

My bodywork thread is here.... http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?7645-Chris-Bodywork-Thread-Mk3-1&highlight=chris%27+bodywork

Pics before, during, and after. You won't be disappointed when you get a chance to smile and say at a car show that you did it yourself.

http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/ab15/CCRsAC/FrontDriverThreeQuarter.jpg (http://s845.photobucket.com/user/CCRsAC/media/FrontDriverThreeQuarter.jpg.html)

http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/ab15/CCRsAC/IMG_20130925_2016541_zps7264fbd0.jpg (http://s845.photobucket.com/user/CCRsAC/media/IMG_20130925_2016541_zps7264fbd0.jpg.html)

http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/ab15/CCRsAC/IMG_20160716_140758454_HDR_zpsojrjduub.jpg (http://s845.photobucket.com/user/CCRsAC/media/IMG_20160716_140758454_HDR_zpsojrjduub.jpg.html)

[Joel Hauser]

I agree with Gumball on this. I'm not a mechanic, but I've become one along the way. I stripped that 1996 mustang down to a bare shell. I rebuilt the engine and installed it myself; I fabricated little parts so things will fit together. I've learned more about ford mustangs than any one person should ever really know. So I'm doing the little body work that has to be done, and then I'll paint it myself. I know it won't be the best paint job, but I think the reward of building it from soup to nuts will make it all worth while. I'm not building my roadster to impress anyone, I'm doing it for the experience of building my own car.
Joel

[RickP]

After reading everyone's comments, collectively, I am gaining confidence that I can handle this and end up with a great result. I haven't gotten this far in the build by folding under the notion that "I can't do this". The fact is I can, and I will. And I am very much enjoying the time doing so.

The advice EdwardB offered is priceless and what I seek. The little things such as "most builders would kill for that alignment" tells me my alignment is spot on and "tape in bumpers, then sand the hood" gives me the method.

Once I get past the pounding of snow today, I aim to tackle the hood and will post results.

Thanks everyone for your comments.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Bevel the hood edges inward as you go around. Don't go too far with the radius on the four corners until it is hinged with the sides and front & rear gaps established. After that is done you can work on evening the margins on the curves.

Jeff

[RickP]

Bevel the hood edges inward as you go around. Don't go too far with the radius on the four corners until it is hinged with the sides and front & rear gaps established. After that is done you can work on evening the margins on the curves.

Jeff

Thank you JK. I can handle that.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Rick,
Just read through this again and paid a little more attention this time (comprehension is so overrated ;)). You mentioned body contact with the Breeze hood hinge...is the front of the body mounted at the quick jack/bumper tubes yet? If not do that before you get too involved with making clearance for the hinge or with fitting and gapping the hood. Step A before Step B before Step C and so on... :)

Jeff

[RickP]

Rick,
Just read through this again and paid a little more attention this time (comprehension is so overrated ;)). You mentioned body contact with the Breeze hood hinge...is the front of the body mounted at the quick jack/bumper tubes yet? If not do that before you get too involved with making clearance for the hinge or with fitting and gapping the hood. Step A before Step B before Step C and so on... :)

Jeff

I do have the tubes mounted. I don't have the jacks themselves mounted but the tubes are centered on both sides equally. I did notice I had to bump the passenger side up a bit to get it centered. From there I bolted it down. Before bumping the passenger side, I noticed the hinge (same side I am having problems with was lower in regards to the body lip when compared to the drivers side. After centering the passenger quick jack tubes in the body cutout holes, now the orientation of either hinge appears to be equal in relation to the body.

However, the passenger side still comes into contact with the hood lip opening when it opens at a certain point. The drivers side doesn't have this clearance issue. I have the hinge itself all the way up as far as it will go (or at least the best I can with the body on). I was thinking the cross bracket itself needs to be pushed rearward towards the cockpit in order to get it to clear. Problem with that is, I think I have it already as far as it will go. I had the lower cross bracket powder coated and was wondering if I could grid off the powder on the back of each mounting tab and maybe where it comes into contact with the frame as well, that coupled with elongating the mounting holes a bit would allow me to slide it somewhat rearward more. In any event, I think I need to pull the body to see clearer on what's going on. Tough getting up into the radiator opening to adjust the hinges and or cross bracket.

[carlewms]

RickP,

One I share your pain ... I am exactly at the same spot on my build ... fitting the hood that is ...

Although the following would be nearly impossible to do with the body on ... have you checked to see if perhaps the arm for the PS bent differently than the DS arm for some reason. I only bring this up because I had or should say still have a problem with perpendicular plate at the end of the 3/4" tube cross support being bent slightly so damage does occur in production or shipping.

Carl

[RickP]

RickP,

One I share your pain ... I am exactly at the same spot on my build ... fitting the hood that is ...

Although the following would be nearly impossible to do with the body on ... have you checked to see if perhaps the arm for the PS bent differently than the DS arm for some reason. I only bring this up because I had or should say still have a problem with perpendicular plate at the end of the 3/4" tube cross support being bent slightly so damage does occur in production or shipping.

Carl

The body is coming off again this weekend and trust me, that will be the very first thing I will check. Didn't even occur to me that could be a possibility. Thank you Carl.

[RickP]

Just thought I would get some pics up and show where I'm at. First off, I went back and addressed my hinge problem. It still rubs but not nearly as bad. Contacts the body by less than a 16th of an inch. I ended up enlarging the cross brace mounting hole so I could slide the brace forward slightly. That coupled with removing a bulb seal I had installed from the hidden hinge cover. All this effort for very little effect. But in the end, it's definitely better. I could shave the hinge itself and it would clear. It's that close. In my estimation, it's the body alignment from front to back. If I look at the hinge cutout holes on the cover plate, the passenger side is slightly (1/16" or so) closer than the drivers side is. So I moved on figuring I can look at this issue later once I know where the hood mounts on the hinges.

3 observations:

1. ) I need a better sander. My woodworking BD does not cut it. Took me 3 hours to get to this point.
2.) amazing how fast 60grit sand paper turns into 120 grit sand paper
3. ) and lastly, I have dust in places I won't discuss.......



I taped in some bumpers. One large at the cockpit end, and four small at the corners. After some initial sanding, I changed the large bumper for a small one for better fitment at the rear. Now the hood sits lower than the body so maybe the approach is the shave a larger one down..


with small bumper in place at the cockpit end.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=65261&d=1489945661

gap passenger:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=65253&d=1489945653

gap drivers:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=65254&d=1489945654


nose corner Passenger:

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=65256&d=1489945656

nose corner Driver: ehhhhhh

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=65255&d=1489945655

[RickP]

cockpit passenger corner:

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=65257&d=1489945657

cockpit drivers corner: oooof
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=65258&d=1489945658

cockpit drivers corner pressed down with hand:

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=65259&d=1489945659

[RickP]

I still need to do some drivers gap work and bevel the edges down as JK suggests.

[RickP]

Is there any way I can get the corner of the hood closet to the cockpit to sit down better. More flush to the body that is. The Passenger side sits nice and flush with the body but the drivers side doesn't even touch the bumpers underneath. Not until I push it down with my hand.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=65543&d=1490303167

pushed down

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=65544&d=1490303168

[scottiec]

I'm not even close to body work yet. But won't the hood latches take care of that for you?

[RickP]

I'm not even close to body work yet. But won't the hood latches take care of that for you?

That's what I was thinking. Just wasn't sure if I should worry about it at this point or not.

[scottiec]

I'll be interested to know!

[Duke]

Yes, the hood latches help. If you haven't drilled the latch holes yet in the hood it helps to make a small modification from the instructions and push the handles closer to the edge of the hood. Once you cut the hold in the hood for the scoop it helps the flex a little. I'm not running a hood scoop so the sides take a little more work along with the latches holding it down.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Go look at whàt I wrote RE: hood fitting to Carl (carlwms) in his build thread a week or so ago.

Jeff

[RickP]

Yes, the hood latches help. If you haven't drilled the latch holes yet in the hood it helps to make a small modification from the instructions and push the handles closer to the edge of the hood. Once you cut the hold in the hood for the scoop it helps the flex a little. I'm not running a hood scoop so the sides take a little more work along with the latches holding it down.

Good to know Duke. I'm getting close to that step

[RickP]

Go look at whàt I wrote RE: hood fitting to Carl (carlwms) in his build thread a week or so ago.

Jeff

Thank you Jeff, I found your post. Not sure what 1/4" thick runner sheet is but sounds like a bumper of sort to "lift" the body to meet the hood rather than try to get the hood to meet the body.

[RickP]

Should I have my splash guards cleco'd in place at this point?

[RickP]

Had a nice chat the other day with Mark Dougherty "The Traveling Builder". He lives very near me and he was ever so kind to let me bend his ear. He gave me some needed advice and direction based on my short term goal (get it road legal and drive it in gel coat this summer). Even tipped me off on an body/paint guy in the area that he recommends.

Thank you Mark!

I made pretty good progress today. Knowing there would be minimal rain, and near 70 degrees in the Philly area, I ate my Wheaties and "got to it".

I think I pulled the hood off/on 10 times to sand/test fit etc. But in the end, I have a swinging hood and latches mounted. The Breeze hinges are difficult to get right as any mounting has to be done under the car. My back is feeling it but the sense of accomplishment is outweighing the pain.

Tomorrow I will mount the hood catches, and level the drivers side body with the hood with rubber straps as Jeff K. suggests. My gaps are near from perfect but as Mark advised me, just get it to fit and function. His body man will take care of the detail.

Front lip clears body swinging open. This gave me the most headache.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=65613&d=1490479525

gap here is tight but it clears

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=65612&d=1490479524

Breeze hinges
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=65611&d=1490479523

My custom hood prop. Prop your hood on a Sunday and chop wood Monday :cool:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=65610&d=1490479522

[Jeff Kleiner]

Thank you Jeff, I found your post. Not sure what 1/4" thick runner sheet is but sounds like a bumper of sort to "lift" the body to meet the hood rather than try to get the hood to meet the body.

I think there must have been a typo in that post---should be "rubber", not "runner" (it's actually conveyor belt material) but yeah, the idea is to bring the body to the hood. Like Mark advised just get things functioning for now and let the body guy fine tune it.

Cheers,
Jeff

[scottiec]

looking great!

[mcwho]

Gumball,

Your car looks awesome.

My son and I started the bodywork about a year ago. We really like the writeup that J. Keiner had posted out here. My son lives in Chicago and I live in Florida, he has taken a few weeks here and there and now we are almost ready for paint. The body is filled, primered an smooth, at this point the body is on, and we are fitting everything, an we have found lots of good info here. As for the side holes where the exausts go thru, I used a dremel and a 1 1/2 round sanding disk to make the corners even. The dremel cuts thru the body like Butter.

my .02 cents

[RickP]

I've got a couple of questions that I hope those in the know can steer me in the right direction

1. Does the rear firewall edge get a bulb seal. I've come across conflicting information

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=66011&d=1491346592

2. Lastly; My trunk lock thru bolt hole does not quite line up with the aluminum. Originally, I had no idea why this odd hole was even in the aluminum and frame so I ran a rivet thru it. Now I am well aware of what it's for.

a.) should I tap the hole and size the hole in the aluminum to match up?

OR

b.) Should I drill out the hole and nut the bolt from behind? Not sure if the bolt is long enough with the body off.

OR

c.) Do something else.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=66012&d=1491346594

[carlewms]

Rick,

Ditto on your question ... I have the exact same issue on my Mk 4. The hole in the aluminum is slightly to the right of the hole in the fiberglass lip of the trunk.

The other thing I have noticed in fitting the trunk lid is that their is considerable lateral movement of the latch end of the trunk when you close the latch.

Carl

[edwardb]

1. The corner your pointing to on the rear cockpit wall does get bulb seal. From right about the door latch to the trunk sides. Nothing across the top of the back wall between the trunk sides.

2. For the trunk latch, I would open the hole as necessary to get the provided bolt through. There's a nut and washer for the back side. Hopefully you have small and flexible fingers to install them. It's pretty tight.

When properly aligned and the right bulb seal around the trunk opening, the latch pulls down on the catch pretty firmly. There shouldn't be any movement.

[RickP]

1. The corner your pointing to on the rear cockpit wall does get bulb seal. From right about the door latch to the trunk sides. Nothing across the top of the back wall between the trunk sides.

2. For the trunk latch, I would open the hole as necessary to get the provided bolt through. There's a nut and washer for the back side. Hopefully you have small and flexible fingers to install them. It's pretty tight.

When properly aligned and the right bulb seal around the trunk opening, the latch pulls down on the catch pretty firmly. There shouldn't be any movement.

Thank you Paul. Exactly the info I was looking for.

[RickP]

Rick,

Ditto on your question ... I have the exact same issue on my Mk 4. The hole in the aluminum is slightly to the right of the hole in the fiberglass lip of the trunk.

The other thing I have noticed in fitting the trunk lid is that their is considerable lateral movement of the latch end of the trunk when you close the latch.

Carl

I'm hoping to get the body back on this weekend. The hole in the fiberglass lip "appears" to line up but that's from an eyeball it perspective. I'll really know what I'm facing once I run the catch bolt through. At least I have the trunk lid trimmed to fit and swinging.

[Jeff Kleiner]

As Paul already noted belb seal goes on the "wings" behind the seats but not across the rear bulkhead:

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj43/jkleiner/Mk4%207276/100_2601-1.jpg

It's not unusual to need to make some adjustment to the latch pin location. You can slot or oversize the holes in the body &/or chassis a bit then use a washer on both sides so that you can pinch it tight once you've found the sweet spot horizontally and vertically. Carl, yes, as the latch hook rotates around the pin it can shift the lower edge of lid side to side. You'll want to set the pin so that it brings the lid to center when fully latched which may require adjusting it's position as mentioned.

Good luck,
Jeff

[RickP]

As Paul already noted belb seal goes on the "wings" behind the seats but not across the rear bulkhead:

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj43/jkleiner/Mk4%207276/100_2601-1.jpg

It's not unusual to need to make some adjustment to the latch pin location. You can slot or oversize the holes in the body &/or chassis a bit then use a washer on both sides so that you can pinch it tight once you've found the sweet spot horizontally and vertically. Carl, yes, as the latch hook rotates around the pin it can shift the lower edge of lid side to side. You'll want to set the pin so that it brings the lid to center when fully latched which may require adjusting it's position as mentioned.

Good luck,
Jeff

Thank you JK for the "how to" on the catch pin. Makes perfect sense. If it landed dead perfect I would be surprised.

[RickP]

I have the hood fitted and swinging to a point where I think it's acceptable for "gel coat" riding. Certainly not paint ready seams etc. The body and hood are pretty level so I went ahead and mounted the hood closers and fitted my Breeze prop rods. I was going to move onto the windshield but I need to line up my buddy and in the meantime, should I cut and mount the hood scoop OR should I leave that for the body/paint pro when the times comes? I am painting it with stripes and am concerned about stripe to hood scoop alignment.

rick

[Jeff Kleiner]

...should I cut and mount the hood scoop OR should I leave that for the body/paint pro when the times comes? I am painting it with stripes and am concerned about stripe to hood scoop alignment.

rick

I prefer to get them untouched but maybe your painter isn't the same kind of control freak perfectionist that I am :)

Jeff

[RickP]

I prefer to get them untouched but maybe your painter isn't the same kind of control freak perfectionist that I am :)

Jeff

Thank you Jeff. I'm going to take your advise and not fuss with it. Pretty much stay the course and continue getting everything fitted.

[RickP]

I've made some steady strides with much "a do". Thought I would get some pics up so the question doesn't arise "where are you at in the build". Upfront, there is a question at the end of this post!

I got the hood mounted, swinging, and propped.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=66781&d=1492952157

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=66782&d=1492952158

The trunk lid is mounted as well.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=66783&d=1492952159

Kleiner mod (thank you Jeff):cool:

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=66784&d=1492952160

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=66785&d=1492952161

Roll Bar:

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=66787&d=1492952163

[RickP]

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=66788&d=1492952164

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=66789&d=1492952165

And finally the windshield (don't get me started.....)

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=66790&d=1492952166

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=66791&d=1492952167

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=66792&d=1492952168

And finally my question:

I need to go back and button up a few things but I believe I am in good shape to take a stab at mounting the doors. Should I mount the front elephant ears prior to door installation? If so, do I need to ensure they are removable? I do plan to coat them with bed liner so initially they will be cleco'd in place for mock up but my concern is if the painter wants to pull the body I would hate to have him/her drilling out rivets.

[edwardb]

Should I mount the front elephant ears prior to door installation? If so, do I need to ensure they are removable? I do plan to coat them with bed liner so initially they will be cleco'd in place for mock up but my concern is if the painter wants to pull the body I would hate to have him/her drilling out rivets.

I haven't noticed they make a big difference for the door fitting. But definitely for the side pipe fitting. You do plan on doing that too before sending off to the painter, right? And yes, they need to be removable to get the body on and off.

[RickP]

I haven't noticed they make a big difference for the door fitting. But definitely for the side pipe fitting. You do plan on doing that too before sending off to the painter, right? And yes, they need to be removable to get the body on and off.

Thanks Paul. Yes, I plan on driving this car for a tad before committing to a painter so the side pipes will get fitted.

[RickP]

I need some advice on the side pipe fitment. The drivers side and subsequently passenger side are cocked slightly with the passenger side being more noticeable. My fist instinct is to jerk the motor to align the pipes but I have a issue with my 02 sensor placement. Also I fear the way the pipes need to move, I would have to open the side cutout more on the passenger side. My thought goes to the Breeze wedges/spacers.

Any advice is much appreciated.


Driver's side alignment (not bad)

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=70042&d=1499621458

Passenger side alignment (oooof)

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=70038&d=1499621406

Drivers's cutout (eh)

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=70040&d=1499621436

Passenger cut out (a little better)

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=70035&d=1499621371

The issue (rear edge of passenger)

It's not touching but I fear I would really have to open the hole up to get the pipe to clear with some breathing room.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=70034&d=1499621353

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=70036&d=1499621381

And the sensor; again not touching but darn close. My thinking was a spacer that bumps the pipe out and angles it back towards the rear inboard side

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=70037&d=1499621395