Gen V LT4 in 33 - Build (Alberta, Canada)

[BlackSunshine]

Hey everyone, thought I'd start a build thread on my 33. I'm getting the feeling this is going to be a long process...

Going to go back in time a bit, here's step #1 for anyone looking to do a build:

Clean out the garage so you have room to do things:

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=64381&d=1487956458

[BlackSunshine]

Various parts! During your build, you'll need parts. Of various kinds. Like, say, the engine:

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=64384&d=1487956461

Also picked up a Boyd fuel tank, I like the idea of the baffles:

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=64380&d=1487956458

And a reasonable diff, seems like that LT4 might do some twisting (FRP Super 8.8, 3.73 Torsen):

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=64383&d=1487956460

[BlackSunshine]

Kit arrives in basically a huge box. This was fun to get into the garage (it was cold outside...):

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=64385&d=1487956462

Unboxing! After this followed many days fill with the entertaining job of inventory. Went through literally every box, and the pack list. Everything on the pack list was there! Unfortunately not everything that should have been on the pack list was... seems FF forgot the power windows and stuff. :)

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=64386&d=1487956465

[BlackSunshine]

Next up was building a build cart. I figured it would be useful to be able to move the thing around. Reused some of the wood from the shipping crate. Put some scissor jacks on the corners, covered the top with felt (to avoid scratching the frame), so I could level the frame no matter where I put it in the garage:

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=64387&d=1487956468
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=64388&d=1487956470
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=64389&d=1487956471

[BlackSunshine]

Got the diff in, this was a real pain! Had to use ratchet straps to compress the urethane so the bolts could go in, it didn't exactly just 'line up':

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=64390&d=1487956473

Mocked up engine mounts and firewall:

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=64391&d=1487956475

Spent far too much time crying over the pitifully small space FF figures is enough for exhaust ... Yes, I'm using small WD40 cans (they are 1.75) to convince myself that I _could_ build long headers through to here. Still not sure what I'm going to do. I don't want external exhaust, but there's no way 2.5" is going to be anywhere near big enough:

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=64395&d=1487956481

[BlackSunshine]

Current challenge is going to be to get the LT4 in there. I bought some dirty dingo LT4->LS mount adapters in the hope they might work. They.. won't. I'm going to have to build my adapter plates I think. Also, the A/C compressor won't fit (yet... I'm still thinking about it), and I have no idea where I'm going to mount the oil resevoir (dry sump), and the various external coolers (water to air I/C, etc). That's where I'm at up to date!

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=64400&d=1487956491
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=64399&d=1487956488

[erlihemi]

Nice Pics!! That crate looks useful as an addition to the garage! Someone on this site had some good pics of Frame modifications to get bigger pipe through. Good luck.

[myjones]

Darryl
Nice garage and the dolly looks like you have some experience in woodworking ;) A few observations from the great pictures so far.
On the dolly, don't underestimate the twisting load that the wheels apply to the 4X4 when they are 90* to it. The more the car weighs as you add parts the more that will
become an issue. If you add L brackets around the joint top and bottom so all the screws are in shear it should be fine. You may also want something under the front of the
chassis, just in case the engine and front suspension become heavy enough to cause a nosedive. I had a bit of fun when my Hemi 33 was right at that tipping point ;>)

I also noticed that you may need to check the clearance from the chassis to the serpentine with all the accessories in place. I had a similar conflict and had to shuffle things
AFTER I thought it was all good on my engine mounts and belt routing. Putting anything different engine wise in the 33 means a lot of mock-ups to sort it all out.

I also suggest you look at the muffler on the new CTS-V. It's a fairly small 2 in 4 out transverse design that might be perfect for your combo. If it will fit right behind your IRS that would eliminate the mufflers under the cab and give you more room for the headers and big pipes. Should be a sweet ride once it's done.
Dale Berry
7L Hemi33

[Dave Howard]

Hi Blacksunshine. Not sure whereabouts outside of Edmonton you are, but there is another 33 kit in a garage down the Yellowhead in Edson.

Good luck with the build.

[The_Compound]

Build looks awesome so far! where in Alberta are you located? I am also building a 33 and am in Edmonton.

[Hot_Rod_Hooligans]

I'm digging your style! Definitely going to have to follow this.

[conger]

Hi and welcome to the car builders club. Also in Edmonton & I've got a Mk4. Just got my plates about a month ago. Still in primer, but what the hell i'm going to have some fun this summer and think about paint next winter. If we ever get to see snow leave and a nice day, I'd like to check out your 33.

Gerry

[DaveS53]

You'd have a better chance of getting the engine to fit without the dry sump. I can't imagine finding a place for the dry sump and A/C. I've thought about this engine for a future project car, like maybe a real '33, but at present there are many problems. The accessory drive pulley is closer to the engine than even the LS3 corvette engine, so nothing for it will fit. Dirty Dingo has used an L83 truck balancer, but that might cause other problems because it sticks out so far. There's an article in the current hot rod magazine about it, but all of the accessory locations are unusable in a '33. I haven't seen anyone make a 4" air intake snorkel that will fit under the hood and use the GM blade type MAF sensor that requires 6 inches of straight tube for the MAF sensor.

I might come to the conclusion that a supercharged LS might be a better choice. There are low-mount A/C and alternator mounts that may work for this engine.

You'll want a fixed displacement A/C compressor. GM compressors should be variable displacement and there is no ECM control for this. It is sometimes possible to convert a compressor to fixed displacement, by plugging the displacement control valve.

The wet sump engine has a much more compact accessory drive, but it's still too wide to fit. There's a recent post on the other forum about having to cut out frame bracing for an LS1 low mount AC and Alt that are narrower than this one.

http://www.ffcars.com/forums/120-factory-five-33-hot-rod-forum-sponsored-e-t-wheels/593609-33-ls1-t56-build.html

http://www.chevrolet.com/content/dam/chevrolet/na/us/english/index/performance/resources/installation-guides/crate-engines/01-images/lt4-wet-sump-accessory-drive-ac-19332591-19332590.pdf

Here's a drawing that shows some dimensions. Unless you cut out a diagonal brace below the upper control arm, the wet sump drive won't work either. Even then it might not work.

http://i1282.photobucket.com/albums/a540/dashepherd298/M143169634_zpszkqyaiu6.jpg (http://s1282.photobucket.com/user/dashepherd298/media/M143169634_zpszkqyaiu6.jpg.html)

I'm curious about the intercooler mentioned. How large is it?

Did you receive all of these parts with the engine?

https://www.gmpartsoutlet.net/auto-parts/2015/chevrolet/corvette/z06-trim/6-2l-v8-gas-engine/cooling-system-cat/intercooler-scat

[DaveS53]

Here's another possible source for an accessory drive - Drive Junky. The alternator setup would probably be too wide for your application, but they say that they are willing to make others. You'd need a low mount alternator, tucked in as close as possible to the block. Drive Junky notes that the dry sump engine does create some additional problems.

http://drivejunky.com/product/lt4-no-powersteering/

I know that removing the diagonal brace that interferes with the AC compressor and low mount alternator is tempting, but it will certainly weaken the frame. Installing a curved tube to provide clearance weakens the brace, so it might as well be left out. There may be a different layout of two tube braces that could restore the strength.

[DaveS53]

A possible solution when you want to put a 3" pipe through a smaller opening is oval exhaust pipe. It comes in straight, 90 and 45 degree bends and oval to round transitions (3" minimum diameter).


http://www.racemufflers.com/Straight-Oval-Tubing-s/2005.htm

[BlackSunshine]

Update: I've given up on the dry sump, trading it for the wet sump. I'll have to wait for it to get to me before I figure out what new problems I have. :).

The drivejunky system looks promising, I might give them a call. Currently I'm thinking electric water pump, electric A/C, and the only thing driven by belts will be supercharger and alternator.

[DaveS53]

Vintage Air says that electric AC is not a good option. FFR cars will have a greater heat load than a steel or fiberglass bodied car due to the large amount of aluminum in the firewall and floor. Lots of insulation is needed.

http://www.vintageair.com/Tech%20Articles/Electric%20Compressors/Electric%20Compressors.pdf

I always wondered how many BTU/hr the VA units produced. They claim 14-20,000 BTU/hr. The electric units don't come close to that.

I also sent an email to Vintage Air, asking about the specific BTU/hr rating for the Compac and Mini models. Apparently there is no standard for measuring the BTU/hr in this industry, but they replied that there is not a lot of difference between the two models. The compac puts out about 12,000 and the mini about 11,000. I chose the mini because I was able to route all the hoses so they can be replaced without removing the dash on my car (or maybe the whole body on the FFR '33).

[BlackSunshine]

Bit of an update, got the front suspension mocked up, then torn down again and sent off for powdercoating (why isn't this coated from FFR??). The silicone dust boots on the ball joints... they just, sit there? No need to attach them somehow?

[DaveS53]

Yes, they just sit there. When everything is in place they are usually squashed enough to seal fairly well. Does seem a bit crude though.

I'm most curious to see if the LT4 water pump will clear the hood side. That would be a big step forward with regard to fit.

[BlackSunshine]

Wet sump LT4 shipping today, we'll see soon!

Mocked up rear suspension as well, measurements taken, pondering wheels now.

[DaveS53]

Any news on the LT4 water pump?

[casper434]

Having built a FF33 with an LS3 E-rod motor and having put an LT4 with 8 speed in my Chev Tahoe, I came across this post and wondered how you are progressing on the FF33 and LT4 build? Each of my builds encountered challenges and I can only imagine the ones that you will face with this project. Any update since 2017?

[nbjeeptj]

I am building the 35 truck with a LS7, it gets real expensive once you realize outside of mounting the dry sump oil tank outside the body that you will have to convert it to wet sump, then in my case to fit the Alt and AC compressor inside the foot print of the engine compartment there goes another $1700.00 for a mid drive belt drive system. All the sudden your budget LS from a wreck cost more than a new engine from blueprint that fits from the start. But I guess that's all part of the fun.

[Jkviper]

You could go with a remote mount electric water pump. Then you would have to custom build the accessory drive and mount them where there is room.

[BlackSunshine]

An update, of sorts...

153625