818 - Mercedes Benz windshield mono-wiper

[ben1272]

I just purchased a MercedesBenz wiper assembly with the thought of using it on my 818. I remember seeing that someone else had used one of these wipers on their 818, but cant find anything about it now. Has anyone else seen this done?

It needs a little cleaning up and I have ordered the missing cover piece that goes over the arm, but otherwise it seems decent. I like the eccentric motion it follows and the nifty full windshield coverage that it allows with a single arm. It is neat to watch too.

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[Frank818]

At what angle does the arm/blade park?
Did the motor come with the kit?

[Canadian818]

Got a video of that thing in action?

[ben1272]

At what angle does the arm/blade park?
Did the motor come with the kit?

I'll see if i can power it up to video it in motion. I have a '93 Mercedes 190E that has the same wiper, so I can easily reference its installation and function. I will at least video it. The entire assembly in the pick came together from the ebay sale. I have seen motors and mechanisms sold separately too. Parts are readily available.....just received my plastic arm cover in the mail.

[UnhipPopano]

It is a nice unit. What are your thoughts on how to deal with the interference with the fiberglass hood? If you use the kit from F5, it will be too wide and not deep enough. If you raise the hood up to go over it, you may run into fitment issues with the rest of the fiberglass panels.

[ben1272]

It is a nice unit. What are your thoughts on how to deal with the interference with the fiberglass hood? If you use the kit from F5, it will be too wide and not deep enough. If you raise the hood up to go over it, you may run into fitment issues with the rest of the fiberglass panels.

There is a picture on www.dpcars.net. It is the hood of the D2 model (navigate to the D2 page) and shows how I think I intend to deal with the hood on the 818. I figure rather than try to hide the wiper I'd accent it. Not sure though, will need to see how it develops.

I'd copy and post a picture, but not sure of copyright rules. You all should check out DPcars anyways.....Dennis is inspirational and his cars are phenomenal, impressive works of engineering and craftsmanship.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EM-wbvRChfs

This is a good video that shows the action in the rain.....you can see the streaks on the windshield define its square-like movement. This type of wiper does not have the same performance capability of 2-wiper systems when operated on its high speed setting, but it does provide better coverage and looks cooler doing it. Also is a nicely finished unit for 1-wiper install. I'd say it is an improvement over other none-articulated single wiper solutions. Mercedes doesnt use t anymore ont heir cars I dont think.

I believe there are also at least a couple of generations with the later units being better designed. I think I have an older unit. I like the way it look and hope i can make it work in the 818.

Wish I could find the 818 install that I remember seeing before.....maybe I imagined it!

I think in its parked position it will fit nicely, but we'll see!

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Mostly I am just a nerd and like the complexity of the solution. :)

[RM1SepEx]

Nice looking unit, the stock unit works well w/o cutting the hood as a single wiper too. What specific yr/model is the source of that Mercedes wiper unit?

[ben1272]

Nice looking unit, the stock unit works well w/o cutting the hood as a single wiper too. What specific yr/model is the source of that Mercedes wiper unit?

It was used on many models over many years. I know of at least 2 versions of the mechanism as well. This one was from a 1993 190E. I think all of their models used the mono-post design C thru S.

The stock unit does not lengthen and shorten the path of the wiper to cover the full windshield, thus the overly complicated solution by Mercedes. Mostly I just always liked this crazy wiper and wanted to try and work it into my 818. I may still fail but going to give it the old college try!

[RM1SepEx]

Its all about body placement vs windshield placement. I had to add a hood support too

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PS not my single wiper install mechanism but very similar, these were the easiest to find. It's important to rotate the motor assy so that the shaft is perpendicular to the windshield surface, that way the wiper sets tight on the windshield and you can keep a constant clearance. I have about a 1 in space that the mechanism travels through. To get there the middle 2 feet of the rear edge has no return edge at all to stiffen the hood.

I'd get pictures of mine but between compyter issues and J-Lo sleeping for the winter on my 4 post lift this is the best I could do

[Frank818]

Nice looking unit, the stock unit works well w/o cutting the hood as a single wiper too.

I slightly disagree. Maybe it's a problem on mine but I think yours looks the same when parked, according to the pix in the other post. When the motor is parked, it is not at full swipe yet, once you turn on the wiper, the blade will move downwards about 3" and then upwards to wipe all the way to the other side. It does not park fully downwards so the blade needs to block visibility a little more. That's just too bad, I wonder if the Benz unit will do better on that.

What's interesting on your last pic Dan is that the blade seems to park low enough, but on the motor pix you can see the smaller motor arm-link is not at full angle (which is same angle as the flat bar on the motor that makes the blade swing).


EDIT: STATEMENT RETRACTED

[RM1SepEx]

Frank, the motor photos are not mine but similar to mine as IDed above, my computer puked,
mine parks where it is at the lowest, rotate your arm on the shaft I'm sure that the correct photos and a video are shown on my thread.

You can see here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjT0reQ6uM4 that the wiper parks at the bottom of the right side travel. This video was made during development using the stock arm and a generic wiper. I had to go to the low profile FFR arm and a rainX sping loaded curved wiper to get it to clear the hood. My hood support is a piece of square aluminum stock with an adjustable rubber bumper at the top. I did the same in the rear to support the engine cover to control gaps.

The advantage of the Mercedes assy is that it sweeps a wider arc. The next time she's off the lift I can get some photos for you... Or you could hunt up the stuff on my thread, many have done it IMHO the FFR solution of cutting the hood isn't a viable solution. Looks like an after thought (which it was)

[Frank818]

rotate your arm on the shaft I'm sure that the correct photos and a video are shown on my thread.

I wish that'd work but it is not related to the wiper arm, it's related to the shaft itself. The shaft will turn down and then up all the way to the other side. No matter where the wiper arm is located, it will then wipe down 3" and then up. But that has nothing to do with the Benz unit. :) I will start off that problem on my build thread, it's there already but I didn't say much about it yet and did not post a video.

Yours does look better.

I thought the Benz unit was too big to fit the hood without trimming, otherwise I might have tried that unit instead of the Subaru. For cost reasons too I went with the Subaru with the Benz is ideal in terms of wiping area, of course.

[RM1SepEx]

Frank, you need to make sure that the arm underneath is at the correct timing too. Check out how low mine parks, it does NOT attempt to go farther down before going up, it would crash into my hood every time. You can also see how I had to remove just about all of the return on the hood

[AZPete]

Ben, the MCB mono wiper is very cool. Having owned 2 E-Class cars, I should have thought of it for my 818. Maybe I'll upgrade later.

Frank, I know you can make your wipers park at the bottom. You have solved many more difficult problems. I mounted the donor wiper mechanism differently than Dan to clear my remote reservoir, but Dan is correct about how it works. At first, I also had the wiper going down before each stroke but moved the short pivot on the wiper motor arm until it worked without the down-up start of each stroke, like Dan said. I took a video but can't figure out how to post it. So, I hope this helps:
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[RM1SepEx]

Mine is just flipped around 180 degrees, I have someone coming to look at my Miata Sat, if it's nice I'll drop the 818S and take some photos for you

[Frank818]

I slightly disagree.

I retract that statement. I agree with Dan on the Subaru wiper. More on my build thread in the next couple days (problem fixed).


@Ben you will update with more details on the Benz once you progress?

[ben1272]

I will post what I find, one way or the other. It is still mushing around in my brain but hopefully something will pop out soon!

[Doug @ Forma]

We gave one of these a shot on our 818 and eventually gave up on it.

I didn't work directly on this, but I believe this is a shot of the layout they came up with. Good coverage, but I think the dot on the base of the windshield frame is where the motor shaft would need to be to make this happen. If you want more details, I'll ask the guys who worked on it to chime in.

64094

In the end we found an aftermarket wiper and developed a mounting system for it. It's a clean, straightforward solution that mounts to the frame at the base of the windshield and requires no hood trimming to work. We are in the final stages of creating a kit out of it, if you're interested look for info on it in the coming weeks.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

We gave one of these a shot on our 818 and eventually gave up on it.

I didn't work directly on this, but I believe this is a shot of the layout they came up with. Good coverage, but I think the dot on the base of the windshield frame is where the motor shaft would need to be to make this happen. If you want more details, I'll ask the guys who worked on it to chime in.

64094

In the end we found an aftermarket wiper and developed a mounting system for it. It's a clean, straightforward solution that mounts to the frame at the base of the windshield and requires no hood trimming to work. We are in the final stages of creating a kit out of it, if you're interested look for info on it in the coming weeks.

Like this??
Mine is near your dot.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-HMdbagCuE

[ben1272]

I trimmed some clearance in the fiberglass windshield frame and positioned the unit close to where I think I can locate it. I manually actuated it throughout its range and traced the path on the windshield. I highlighted it for reference.

I like the full coverage, but mostly I like the unique 1 armed eccentric motion. I have been a fan of the single wiper arm ever since lamborghini countach. I'll keep you all posted.

I tried to post the photos, but something is kooky with the attachment manager. I will try again tomorrow with my iPhone camera (which I left at work! Doh!)


-Ben

[Doug @ Forma]

Like this??
Mine is near your dot.


I'll have to get Kyle to comment, but I think we had the shaft higher than what I see in your video, onto the curved surface the glass sits on. The MB wiper sweeps almost 180 degrees, so I think you need to get it close to the bottom of the glass to work. Maybe Ben will prove me wrong. :D

Your solution looks pretty good (and I like the blue chassis). Anything that avoids cutting the hood is a win. Our solution mounts to the chassis just in front of the windshield surround. It parks on the passenger side vs. the driver's. Here are some images:

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It's mounted on a 3D printed housing that requires a little trim of the windshield surround in that area and nothing more.


I trimmed some clearance in the fiberglass windshield frame and positioned the unit close to where I think I can locate it. I manually actuated it throughout its range and traced the path on the windshield. I highlighted it for reference.

I like the full coverage, but mostly I like the unique 1 armed eccentric motion. I have been a fan of the single wiper arm ever since lamborghini countach. I'll keep you all posted.

I tried to post the photos, but something is kooky with the attachment manager. I will try again tomorrow with my iPhone camera (which I left at work! Doh!)


-Ben

Good luck, I hope you get it to work, we'll be following. It's a neat wiper design, which is why we wanted to try it as well. It did produce good windshield coverage, but our call was that in this car the wiper is there almost entirely to satisfy the state, it's unlikely to be used much, if at all. With that in mind, we decided somewhat early into our investigation that the effort to integrate the MB wasn't worth it, so we found something simpler.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Your solution looks pretty good (and I like the blue chassis). Anything that avoids cutting the hood is a win. Our solution mounts to the chassis just in front of the windshield surround.

Hey Doug,
I tried 180 degree sweep.(minvan rear wiper) it was way to big of a sweep.
Here is a video in the rain and some more info on my setup from my build log.
Bob


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBfSm4VhyqU

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?12534-MRG-MotorSports-818S-Build&p=211128&viewfull=1#post211128

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?12534-MRG-MotorSports-818S-Build&p=211202&viewfull=1#post211202


Another in the rain video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zujofXw4b5Q

[Kyle @ Forma]

Hey Guys!

As Doug said we tried using one of the Mercedes eccentric mono wipers, specifically one from a W124.

The wiper does nearly a 180-degree sweep, so I knew it would have to be positioned as close to the bottom of the glass as possible(to avoid running off the bottom edge). This happened before we had our windshield mounted, so I just placed that silver dot where I thought we could put the wiper. The arc drawn on the carboard is actually just showing a typical sweep motion, which we used to compare to the MB sweep pattern.

There were two main hurdles we found trying to use the wiper; the physical size of the assembly and the sweep pattern. The wiper extends at 45-degrees and 135-degrees relative to it's parked position, which we planned to align to the corners of the glass. To utilize this pattern, the wiper had to be mounted as close to the windshield as possible. Even with the wiper sweeping from the dot in the picture, the wiper was still unable to reach the upper portion of the glass and the arm was not extending directly towards the corner (too low). The size of the assembly made it nearly impossible to even mount this high up. Unless we planned to do some extensive modifications, we would have to mount the wiper lower, which hurt the coverage area even more. We also tried putting longer blades on the Merc wiper arm which helped, but the coverage still wasn't great.

Mercedes' mono wiper is a great design for shorter windshields, allowing them to get much better coverage in the corners. However the 818 windshield is actually pretty tall, and we found that we were able to get the best coverage from one normal-motion wiper blade. Plus, it required much less modification to the existing body components.

That said, Ben, please keep us updated on how the Mercedes wiper works out. I still think it is a cool idea.


I've doodled on the photo Doug posted to show roughly the cover area from the MB wiper. I never said I was good at art...

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[ben1272]

Here are the pics. You can barely see the silver path traced and drawn on windshield. The one shot shows the clearance I cut into the fiberglass. I think I can get unit even a bit closer, but I think it is close to good where it is.

To avoid the full 180 degree sweep that might interfere with the hood/fender frame mounts, I was wondering if I could not just reduce the length of the swing arm on the motor that pushes and pulls the wiper lever.....I'll take more pics. I think it could take a slightly longer blade too....this one is 21" I think and was what the Mercedes 190E used.


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[ben1272]

I made a short video of wiper operating in place. I think if I shorten the swing arm on the motor a scosche I can limit the travel a bit and avoid the interference at each end. I like it.

Now to see if I can come up with a hood trim that I like.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYiSsFt3O1c&feature=youtu.be

[Frank818]

I like it!!!
If I can't pass inspection with my Subaru wiper, I'll ask you what to do exactly to get your kit working.
Hood trimming required? How does it look like with the hood in place?

You can remove the "S" in "HTTPS" and the video will show as a thumbnail on the forum. :)

[ben1272]

I removed the 's' in Https, but it did not change into thumbnail. What did I do wrong?

[ben1272]

Here are some shots with the hood layed on top. It will definitely need to be trimmed, but I think it can be done in a stylish attractive way....maybe 'feature' the wiper body on the hood. Kind of like the gas tank caps on Porsche 550 Spyder. I made in outline in silver sharpie, nut I think it will need to have some additional material removed to clear the arm in both extreme positions.

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[AZPete]

Ben, I like what you've done but before you cut your hood I think you should try a brace to raise the center of the hood. I made a hood brace that is in front of my donor wiper motor and it works well and even keeps the trailing edge of the hood from bouncing at speed.

Doug, I like your design with a 3-D printed mount because it enables the windshield to be removed & replaced without messing with the wiper mechanism. One reason to remove the windshield would be to convert to the coupe top, and then back to a roadster. Also, think about the 818 coupe when you estimate wiper usage and demand. Others may be like me with a 818C and a wiper we will actually use and not just for a state inspection. I even added a windshield washer which is more for bugs since it doesn't rain much here in the desert.

[ben1272]

I want to do the coupe conversion and hope to get it soon. I'll try to have the wiper install work for either in case I decide to swap them ever. I will definitely try clearing the wiper with a hood support before determining whether/what cutting is needed. Thanks!

[Bob_n_Cincy]

I removed the 's' in Https, but it did not change into thumbnail. What did I do wrong?

Ben
This is what the link in my post looks like:

video=youtube;HBfSm4VhyqU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBfSm4VhyqU[/video

I remove the brackets from the ends so the video didn't show up here.

This is what I do to insert a video:
1. open then video in youtube.
2. copy the URL address out of the address bar.
3. in your post, select video icon above.
4. paste the address, then press "OK" done.

Here is a test with your video


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vYiSsFt3O1c&feature=youtu.be

Bob

[ben1272]

Funny, I did not see the 3D printed part on my first read through your reply. I like it alot. I will be making a cover to fit under the Mercedes unit as well (as intended by Mercedes) but not sure whether it will be 3D printed or aluminum. Probably aluminum given the size I currently expect it to be.

[Doug @ Forma]

Nice work Ben, it looks like your wiper covers the glass better than ours. I wonder if that's the difference between a wiper from the larger W124 that we tried and the wiper from the smaller 190E (W201 series) that you're using.


Doug, I like your design with a 3-D printed mount because it enables the windshield to be removed & replaced without messing with the wiper mechanism. One reason to remove the windshield would be to convert to the coupe top, and then back to a roadster. Also, think about the 818 coupe when you estimate wiper usage and demand. Others may be like me with a 818C and a wiper we will actually use and not just for a state inspection. I even added a windshield washer which is more for bugs since it doesn't rain much here in the desert.

Agreed, there are likely more coupe builders that will drive their car in any weather, so a decent wiper solution would be more valuable to them.

[ben1272]

I cut and shortened (MIG welded) the small arm that rotates under the gearbox. It is now about 2.25" long, but I think it needs to be 2.1875". This new length limits the travel so that the wiper does not collide with the hood/fender supports anymore and the blade will be parked on the glass. It will also allow a longer wiper blade to be used...maybe now a 22-23" which improves the coverage even more.. I'll take some pictures tomorrow. I am cautiously optimistic that this might just work.

[ben1272]

I trimmed the hood (I'm committed now!) and may tweak it a bit but I like where it is at. I plan to glass in a new return on the cut edge and maybe fill the gap between the hood and windshield with some sort of mesh, or else a trim panel at least. Should help keep crud out. I'll run it all along the lower edge of the windshield and bring it out to meet up with the hood.

I'd like to try and figure out how to get it to center-park also. I know I can dynamically brake the motor (Mercedes does in their installation), but I will need to add a switch or two to trigger it. After the car is running and passed inspection/registration.....

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[ben1272]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikhoTnjdSqM

Once I have the remaining contacts figured out I should be easily able to get 2 speeds with parking. Not sure if I will try to get intermittent function to work, may try later. I dont plan to drive much in the rain anyways! I mostly want a semi-unique wiper to go with this very unique car.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Good job Ben.
I suspect you put some significant time into your wiper design. I know we did.
Bob

[metros]

We gave one of these a shot on our 818 and eventually gave up on it.

I didn't work directly on this, but I believe this is a shot of the layout they came up with. Good coverage, but I think the dot on the base of the windshield frame is where the motor shaft would need to be to make this happen. If you want more details, I'll ask the guys who worked on it to chime in.

64094

In the end we found an aftermarket wiper and developed a mounting system for it. It's a clean, straightforward solution that mounts to the frame at the base of the windshield and requires no hood trimming to work. We are in the final stages of creating a kit out of it, if you're interested look for info on it in the coming weeks.

Updates?

[Doug @ Forma]

Updates?

We'll have an update later in the week. Look for a new thread, I don't want to thread jack here any more than I already have. :D