I got an order for the 818 today

[Wayne Presley]

So when do I get the kit????

[Texan_GTM]

??? Dang it!!!! I wanted kit #1! Can i have #5? :) :p

[Texan_GTM]

Oh, and seriously?

[Wayne Presley]

Oh, and seriously?

Actually yes, deposit and coin to buy the donor.

[Fifty-Two]

That's why Wayne is "the man". :cool:

- John

[Flamshackle]

WHAT!!!! can you order already??? for real???

what was the deposit price?

[Texan_GTM]

WHAT!!!! can you order already??? for real???

what was the deposit price?

He is saying he got his donor. What year?

EDIT.... Whoops... Im wrong

[16g-95gsx]

Absolutely nothing about the car is finalized, why in hell do you guys think that FFR would be selling the kits already? Chill out and wait, it'll happen in time, but not for a long time still. I honestly would expect it to be a full year out still.

[PhyrraM]

I believe he is saying that he has received an order to build a kit and obtain a donor for a customer of his.

[riptide motorsport]

You mean potential order.

[Wayne Presley]

I believe he is saying that he has received an order to build a kit and obtain a donor for a customer of his.

Exactly, no kit has been ordered from FFR. I just have the go ahead to get a donor and prep the parts for installation in the FRX when available.

[Niburu]

Have you asked FFR directly what the donor part list is?

[Wayne Presley]

I know the proposed list includes:
pedalbox,
knuckles F&R
brakes
radiator
probably the steering column
steering rack
powertrain and electronics

Not sure:
fuel tank
gauges
lights
seats

[Someday I Suppose]

Wayne, what is scary about that is that you will have a good 12 months or so to play with that motor before you even start building the car... I think we should take bets on HP numbers :-)

_Scott

[bil1024]

This is good stuff! I like the hunt for parts.

[Dave Smith]

Wayne Presley is one of the most capable builders and car guys out there and I've known him since taking a ride in his purple Mk1 back in 1998. If Hayden gave him the go-ahead, I can assure you all, we would be honored to have him as a beta builder.

As far as production dates and configuration decision on the 818 are concerned I can answer those questions next week. Jim is down at Road Atlanta at a FFR Challenge Seires race and we are scheduled to discuss this matter when he gets back.

I should make a few things clear about the 818 project especially since the specific question of shipping dates/deposits and "Beta customers" are concepts that have been abused in the extreme by other companies, not related to FFR.

First of all, we will not take deposits or sell a car that doesn't yet exist. We know how long it takes to design and build a new car and only rookies get all excited and sell a car that they cant make and hasn't been fully tested (welcome to the ol-stereotypical kit car world).

When we offer the car for sale it will have production tooling complete, prototype testing done, packaging areas set-up, bill-of materials long-since completed, pricing and design questions long since answered, and will have benefitted from Beta-builders whose feedback will help ensure that the car goes together well and perform as promised. We will launch it on-time and correctly and not make stupid claims that can't be met, then apologize and rationalize later.

An estimate for the 818 is maybe a year away from being even offered for sale and that depends on whether we launch three bodies/powertrain options or one and the resources we can commit to it. The Hot Rod was done in 18 months with 6 engineers and supporting manufacturing guys.

I will not risk this design with unfounded production claims. It will be our most important design to date, and deserves the respect of a professional launch.

Since I mentioned that Wayne would be a GREAT Beta-builder I should make a note about Beta builders. The entire concept of "Beta-builders" is to have a close-knit, small group of experienced and varied guys who bring a variety of talents to the table, to help communicate and validate the car BEFORE it goes to the general public. We would never offer beta-build spots to just anyone off the street (that is just sales in disguise) and certainly not to more than say 3-6 guys (too many becomes unmanageable and the information you get can't be effectively integrated).

I will have ALOT more about the 818 shortly. We have a HUGE advantage with this project, and that is we have some really talented and resource/knowledge rich partners who are helping. Rhode Island School of Design has offered help with 1/4 scale models of body shapes that can be taken and scanned and scaled for 3-d shaping. Solidworks has offered to help with the scanning, scaling and prototype plug (shape) milling. Hewlett Packard may have a role and their pockets are deeper than ours. Also Simon and the kids at West Philly HS are ready to help transfer everything they know about their TDI powertrain technology (103 mpg car!) into a drive system that is affordable and could be used as one variant of the car (complementing a low-drag coupe body). The Subaru community is HUGE and the performance options with the Imprezza/WRX running gear is very exciting... soliciting their help in the coming months will be CRUCIAL to the project. We CANNOT do this project alone and the body design competition shows how good that decision was.

But I'm wayyyy ahead of myself. More to come shortly.

[keys2heaven]

Also Simon and the kids at West Philly HS are ready to help transfer everything they know about their TDI powertrain technology (103 mpg car!) into a drive system that is affordable and could be used as one variant of the car (complementing a low-drag coupe body).

Can't wait to hear more about this! Can you imagine a car for around $15,000 that looks great, drives great and gets 100+ MPG!

Take that Toyota!

[Oppenheimer]

Can't wait to hear more about this! Can you imagine a car for around $15,000 that looks great, drives great and gets 100+ MPG!

Take that Toyota!

Yes, eager for what's to come. Though to be fair, I wouldn't think the 818 driven by a TDI would = 100 mpg without sacrifices to driveability and handling capabilites that are more than most would be willing to deal with.

But, say 75 mpg, would that be doable? I think it would. Imagine a car that handles like an Elise (and looks better), is about as quick, and is capable of delivering 75 mpg hwy (and can run on bio-diesel).

[keys2heaven]

Yes, eager for what's to come. Though to be fair, I wouldn't think the 818 driven by a TDI would = 100 mpg without sacrifices to driveability and handling capabilites that are more than most would be willing to deal with.

But, say 75 mpg, would that be doable? I think it would. Imagine a car that handles like an Elise (and looks better), is about as quick, and is capable of delivering 75 mpg hwy (and can run on bio-diesel).

k, maybe 100+ is a bit of a stretch, but I'll take 3 x 25MPG any day. Maybe 818 could also be the number of miles it could go on a tank of gas/diesel!

[ScottKoschwitz]

I would be all over a TDI-powered 818. I owned a VW Mk4 Jetta TDI for ten years. Great engine: nice torque and easily 45 mpg on the highway all day long. My Mk5 GTI is great (the Corrado I always wanted, but couldn't afford), but my wife and I still miss the TDI.

[mn_vette]

I'll be getting really excited when I see the Utube video of Dave doing donuts in the 818 prototype chassis with no body. But from the looks of the chassis at the open house they are still a ways away from getting to that point.

[blueafro]

The entire concept of "Beta-builders" is to have a close-knit, small group of experienced and varied guys who bring a variety of talents to the table, to help communicate and validate the car BEFORE it goes to the general public. We would never offer beta-build spots to just anyone off the street (that is just sales in disguise) and certainly not to more than say 3-6 guys (too many becomes unmanageable and the information you get can't be effectively integrated).

Since this car has such potential to attract first-time builders, many from a pool of enthusiasts which doesn't necessarily overlap your existing American-V8/retro-styling-oriented customer base, perhaps you should consider allotting one of your betas to a novice builder, just to see if what you expect to be easy to build actually is, if instructions you think easy to follow actually are, etc.

[crackedcornish]

Since this car has such potential to attract first-time builders, many from a pool of enthusiasts which doesn't necessarily overlap your existing American-V8/retro-styling-oriented customer base, perhaps you should consider allotting one of your betas to a novice builder, just to see if what you expect to be easy to build actually is, if instructions you think easy to follow actually are, etc.

I was thinking about the same thing...what will seem like a common sense answer to a problem, for an experienced builder, may seem insurmountable to a first time builder (which I assume is really the target buyer for this car, so FFR can further build their loyal customer base) and problems FFR doesn't know about are problems that won't be fixed early on

[Oppenheimer]

Yes, was thinking the same thing. Not only first time builders (experienced builders were first time once), but much younger builders. Guys with less refined judgement.

Recall how the '65 Roadster had a bad rep for a while for 'using a Mustang frame' or 'using worn out Mustang parts'. I think a lot of that impression was from guys building lower quality builds. FFR worked hard to correct that impression, even offering a build option using all brand new donor parts. If too many of these kits get built by kids without skills, or understanding of their limitations and when to get help, that could tarnish the 818 rep.

Imagine if the first time you hear about FFR or 818 is when you get a chance to look closely at a poorly built example. Not knowing any better, you might think that is a 'normal' 818, and assume its another poorly designed kit.

I think this is somewhat uncharted territory for FFR, so they would do well to pay extra attention to it.

The good news is younger builders are going to be online, and here is where they can find help.

[GUNS]

Not that it matters, but I am a young builder with limited experience. I fully intend on being one of the first to buy this kit and hope to learn a lot in the process!

[Dave Smith]

I see your point and think it will be wise to add a "novice" builder to the beta program. My point being that a well-concieved beta program HAS to be defined carefully, limited in size and scope and certainly is not something you just throw out to the public where anyone with a deposit is enlisted to "help" develop the car. The goal being that the first production cars leave the plant with the build-design as fully vetted as possible.

With respect to the TDI stuff, Simon Hauger and his team have already delivered 72 mpg in regular driving conditions with a Factory Five GTM (100+ mpg at the green grand prix, but that was controlled course, maint throttle, hyper-miler tactics that couldnt be used in the real world). Using the TDi or newer Ford powerplants in the 818 chassis with a very slippery coupe body was my plan for one of the three variants of the car. Alot of the things we've done in the last three years have been done in the hopes that the tech could be used in other places (like the gel-coating tech when we go to a non-paint body panel application, or the tdi work in the green gtm run by west philly hs when we want to drop that mill into a alt bodied 818).

Honestly, there are too many things to do in the day and I cant sleep at night. Thats a good thing.

[GTLee77]

Using the TDi or newer Ford powerplants in the 818 chassis with a very slippery coupe body was my plan for one of the three variants of the car.

Can you clarify this Dave? Does this mean that the 818 can be built using ONE of multiple donors (i.e. Subaru Impreza for one powertrain, Ford vehicle for Ford powerplants, and VW Golf/Jetta for TDI powertrain)? Or will someone that wants to build a Ford/TDI powered 818 have to buy TWO donors (i.e. The Subaru for the steering/suspension/gauge cluster/etc and a Ford/TDI for the drivetrain)?

[DOHCCOBRA]

Please let the Ford comment mean that you are working with Ford Motorsports on one of their up and coming ecoboost 4 cylinder motors for this!!!!!

[Someday I Suppose]

Dave, newer ford power, thinking the 3 cyl 1 liter??? that could be pretty slick for sure...

Part of me really likes the idea of going straight impreza non turbo though and seeing just how inexpensive a car could be built if you sold off what you didn't use and really kept to a budget... Of course my wife reminds me how well I kept to the 'budget' on the roadster, so...

[Texan_GTM]

I see your point and think it will be wise to add a "novice" builder to the beta program. My point being that a well-concieved beta program HAS to be defined carefully, limited in size and scope and certainly is not something you just throw out to the public where anyone with a deposit is enlisted to "help" develop the car. The goal being that the first production cars leave the plant with the build-design as fully vetted as possible.

With respect to the TDI stuff, Simon Hauger and his team have already delivered 72 mpg in regular driving conditions with a Factory Five GTM (100+ mpg at the green grand prix, but that was controlled course, maint throttle, hyper-miler tactics that couldnt be used in the real world). Using the TDi or newer Ford powerplants in the 818 chassis with a very slippery coupe body was my plan for one of the three variants of the car. Alot of the things we've done in the last three years have been done in the hopes that the tech could be used in other places (like the gel-coating tech when we go to a non-paint body panel application, or the tdi work in the green gtm run by west philly hs when we want to drop that mill into a alt bodied 818).

Honestly, there are too many things to do in the day and I cant sleep at night. Thats a good thing.

Err... A novice first timer.... like me :o :)

[Dave Smith]

I think the subie donor will launch the car and too much work has been done already (and good work!) to unwind that. I was referring to the powerplant since there are two non-subie directions (where-as the plan is 265 wrx power or 165 horse imprezza power). One would be the Audi-VW tdi that the Green Grand Prix winning GTM developed with Simon Hauger from West Philly HS team. The other poweplant is Ford Racing that communicated to us that they want a swipe at the car power with some very exciting new eco-boost engines. This is all still in flux but getting more and more defined by the day.

[jmimac351]

Dave, please make sure the guys nail it on the suspension. No compromises. Not "good enough" on the kingpin angle. Make it feel like a production car. If I think it will outhandle my Miata I'd seriously consider buying it for track duty. I sold my Panoz because the Miata is just so much damn fun to drive. My first roadster was "good enough" because it was a cruiser. This car will have to handle as well or better than it already looks.

I agree with you, this is shaping up to be a very important design for FFR.

[keys2heaven]

I think the subie donor will launch the car and too much work has been done already (and good work!) to unwind that. I was referring to the powerplant since there are two non-subie directions (where-as the plan is 265 wrx power or 165 horse imprezza power). One would be the Audi-VW tdi that the Green Grand Prix winning GTM developed with Simon Hauger from West Philly HS team. The other poweplant is Ford Racing that communicated to us that they want a swipe at the car power with some very exciting new eco-boost engines. This is all still in flux but getting more and more defined by the day.

I am so intrigued by those last two powerplant options. And here I was thinking it was going to be body only options.

[Someday I Suppose]

The ford stuff could be way cool....

Here is whats been published about the 3 cyl


Ford is thinking small--really small--with a new 1.0-liter three-cylinder Ecoboost engine. It will the smallest engine that Ford has built ever, and the first to have fewer than four cylinders. The Ford says the engine will give the performance of a conventional four-cylinder engine but with the fuel economy of a smaller engine.
The new three-cylinder engine, announced by Ford today, was developed at Ford's Dunton Technical Centre in the U.K. Although the engine uses Ford's turbocharging-with-direct-injection Ecoboost technology (http://www.examiner.com/auto-review-in-national/what-is-ecoboost-greener-cleaner-more-efficient-direct-injection-turbo-from-ford)that lets a thrifty V-6 make power like a V-8, the engine was developed with an eye towards improving thermal efficiency and reducing friction of the engine’s internal moving parts, especially during warm-up.
"No one’s ever built a three-cylinder engine quite like this," says Joe Bakaj, Ford vice president of global powertrain engineering. "Not only is it one of the most technically advanced and efficient engines we’ve ever designed, but it will introduce a number of new technologies to the Ford engine lineup.”
In addition to the Ecoboost, special features of the 1.0-liter engine include:

An offset crankshaft that Ford credits with helping to improve fuel economy
A novel split cooling system, designed by Ford, that allows the cylinder block to warm up before the cylinder head. Ford notes that faster cylinder block warm-ups aids fuel economy, especially in cold weather.
An exhaust manifold cast into the cylinder head, the resulting one-piece assembly lowering the temperature of the exhaust gases which Ford says enables the engine to run in a wider rpm band with the optimum fuel-to-air ratio. Ford claims the design allows the engine to operate more smoothly and it's lighter as well.


Continue reading on Examiner.com Ford to produce 1.0-liter 3-cyl. engine, smallest ever to wear the Blue Oval - National auto review | Examiner.com (http://www.examiner.com/auto-review-in-national/ford-to-produce-1-0-liter-3-cyl-engine-smallest-ever-to-wear-the-blue-oval#ixzz1PZwiP7Of) http://www.examiner.com/auto-review-in-national/ford-to-produce-1-0-liter-3-cyl-engine-smallest-ever-to-wear-the-blue-oval#ixzz1PZwiP7Of

[Ks2]

i heard ford and thought we might get a version of the 300+ hp focus RS sold everywhere else but here (yeah ford i hope you read this i want a focus RS... i know the mustang is the 'american' fast ford, but we like hot hatches too) anyway, the ecoboost sounds good though the TDI still has my choice for a super MPG seeing what people can do with large diesel engines, switching on the fly from 40+ mpg (this is a 6l V8 mind you) to making over 800ftlbs of torque all through advanced computers and turbo controls... and those turbo diesels can last well over 300,000 miles of towing, hauling and abuse (i don't know about the volkswagens though... just going off what the rednecks around here drive)

dave the kit car world seems filled to the brim with fast cars... i cant say many companies are on to a 'eco friendly' car, given the rise of the prius making a super MPG car that can still deliver on track days (and people would actually be caught driving) would let you sell to a completely new market of buyers

also i do hope the beta builders can post a build log of some kind on the forum (or you tube...) even though we wont have kits yet im sure there is alot of people on this forum (myself included) who wouldnt mind watching one go together

[crackedcornish]

I think the subie donor will launch the car and too much work has been done already (and good work!) to unwind that. I was referring to the powerplant since there are two non-subie directions (where-as the plan is 265 wrx power or 165 horse imprezza power). One would be the Audi-VW tdi that the Green Grand Prix winning GTM developed with Simon Hauger from West Philly HS team. The other poweplant is Ford Racing that communicated to us that they want a swipe at the car power with some very exciting new eco-boost engines. This is all still in flux but getting more and more defined by the day.

whoa, does this mean that there will be a completely different versions of the chassis to handle each different powertrain or will the buyer be able to have the choice via some type of swappable engine cradle?

[kitcarj]

FF takes over the automotive world!!!

[DOHCCOBRA]

That sounds awesome Dave, I can definitely understand getting the Subbie option going first, it is the original design and no need to compromise that yet. I am really excited to hear that you are looking at other options though for future development, there are a lot of really cool things being worked on now that would be a great fit in this car, for the 3cyl ecoboost that was already talked about to one of the 4 cylinder options that they are working on. There are some cool possibilities for transmissions too that could make this a truly world class car, with the options of the standard manual transmissions to the Dual clutch transmissions!

[PhyrraM]

Not quite seeing the whole multiple manufacturers in the drivetrain yet.

Dave is going on about how this chassis will be perfect, and I know it will be. However multiple drivetrains usually means multiple donors, and that means different suspension geometry for each donor situation. That, in turn, means differing pick-up points for the suspension components that are unlikely to line up with existing tubes in '3d' space or clear hard components while still being optimal.

See my concerns? Different chassis basically means different car/kit, regardless of which body is chosen.

[TroyLynx]

Manta Mirage back in the late 80s I had a Manta Mirage. It started as a Corvair 4 speed mated to a VW flat 4. I rebuilt the corvair engine and put it in. A year later I mounted a GM 350 in it. A year after that the my neighbor rolled his Caddy. I bought the caddy and in a 2 weeks had the northstar running hard. To go from the Corvair transaxle to the Northstar was not much more than remove 2 towers, mod the cradle, and weld it up to a few new brackets. And in all the swaps I really never noticed the difference in driving. Seeing it was all in the rear. So what I am saying is after the initial frame is made and body/s are finished. With the help of computer CAD, different cradles can be made for different engine/trans combinations. And with this note it would still be a world car. So ricers can put their Honda's in and the die hard Americans can put their Ford engines in. Directed to everybody and just chattin back at PhyrraM "I Come In Peace"

[Ks2]

where-as the plan is 265 wrx power or 165 horse imprezza power

not to mention the 300 or so (except 07 which was 293 if i recall) out of the STI motor...

[wrw2497]

I loved the Manta Mirage and Montage ,for that matter....I just talked to Tim LoVette and told him it came up on the forum...that is the style car I would buy from FFR...they were pretty high quality and versatile like you said...I really don't like the idea of the jap drivetrain,even if it is cheap,available to europeans and kids....can you imagine the embarrassment of telling someone your hot new project car is a subaru...even the Noble has a Ford engine....

[Gollum]

I really don't like the idea of the jap drivetrain,even if it is cheap,available to europeans and kids....can you imagine the embarrassment of telling someone your hot new project car is a subaru...even the Noble has a Ford engine....

Well I guess you're hanging around the wrong crowd. All of the REAL car guys I've met don't care what name is on it. It all comes down to how it performs. I don't car if they were 16 or if they were 60, if they really love the car hobby they won't care at all.

I know you (wrw) might not feel about the 818 like some of these people you're describing, but that's exactly the attitude I avoid in the car hobby, and why I usually don't enjoy most car shows that are exclusive. To many of these people are into cars for a status thing, and are actually just interested in a glorified social club. They want people around them to tell them that they're really awesome for being just as blind sighted as the people around them.

This is why I always watch out for the unlikely type driving unlikely cars. When you see the older gentlemen driving a brand new EVO or STI, that's a real car guy. Or when you see a young kid driving a primer black '65 Falcon with plenty of V8 rumble, that's a car guy.

This is also something I appreciate about the recent movement in the youth towards older Japanese cars. Though the point is getting lost on many, I'm seeing more and more youth getting caught by a modern rad rod movement and these kids "get it". They pour every ounce of time, money, and energy into areas that matter. Engine, suspension, brakes, tires. They don't care about the interior being perfect, or the paint being show quality. They want a car, a car they can use and abuse. A car they can drive like they stole it and it won't fall apart. They want to ENJOY the darn thing. It's a heck of a lot better than the honda movement of 10 years ago.

In closing, I'd just like to say that I feel sorry for people that would make one feel embarrassed for having a particular dirvetrain. They must be pretty closed minded, or only watch their brand of racing, which is rather sad. I enjoy all types of cars, and all types of racing. Every continent and country has something to be admired about the cars they make, and I wish more people could see that.

[TroyLynx]

In the early days of hot rodding. You would goto the junk yard find a old junk car or truck of the 20s, mount it on any frame that look salvageable. Find any engine that still ran. find any old rear end to mount. Take the whole hep of junk yard parts to a buddies house. Spend a few weekends with friends and cokes, slap the junk yard parts together and a hot rod is born. It did not matter what the car was made of. If it moved everyone was happy. Next time we build a parts car for another friend. Words from an old fart neighbor of mine.,
Thanks Gollum for your feeling from the heart. Even though I poke fun of a young friend of mine about is early 90s Civic. And how I possibly can't see what fun such a small car can bring seeing I am from the early 80s so I grew up on 70s chevelles, novas, torino's that we got as cheap trade in's at the dealships. The enjoyment of any car no matter the brand is what it is all about.

[Nelff]

Dave, what you posted about the real world and putting together a package that would deliver fantastic mileage is well fantastic!!! I have been looking for something that would get me great mileage and be different/unique. I was hoping that I could use the 818 as the basis for my approach. NOW I find out that you are ahead of me by a mile. Thanks!!! I'm hoping that the 818 is everything that everyone is looking for. My thought, no one car can be all things for all people... That's why the individual takes a platform and creates the rest to suit themselves. Thanks again!!!!

[blueafro]

can you imagine the embarrassment of telling someone your hot new project car is a subaru...

No I can't, but I suppose it would be analogous to the embarrassment I would feel telling someone my hot new project car was a fake Cobra. Unlike you, however, I don't troll the forum of a car which isn't to my tastes but interests other fellow cr enthusiasts.

[olpro]

In the early 80s I left GM in Detroit to work in California for a major Japanese manufacturer. I was surprised at the crap I got about that from some whom I wouldn’t have expected. Most of the static was about Japan, some was Detroit attitude (people were vandalizing Japanese cars because Big 3 jobs were hurting) and some was even anti California bias. To this day, I think my father-in-law (a WW-II vet) has not fully forgiven me.
In the new job I worked with people who saw the war from the other side, even including some friends from Hiroshima and Nagasaki. 98% were perfectly fine but I could tell when there were some bad feelings remaining. The vast majority of my coworkers were newer generation and had no direct memories but frankly the bias, in both directions, didn’t restrict itself to old folks.
I found that there was no accounting for these deep seated feelings that occasionally emerged. Some vets still can’t even talk about their war years so who knows what they went through at that time, or who they lost.
It isn’t up to me to judge them and one just has to realize that people can’t always help the way they feel. You really have to give them some slack and hope they cut you the same.

[jmimac351]

I owned a '02 WRX and that boxer motor is a big part of why I'd be interested in this car. That drive train is a great solution for a car like this. Aluminum boxer motor hopped up to 300hp with boost in a 1800# car. Are you kidding?!? Awesome. Bub-bub-bub-bub-bub-bub....

[Oppenheimer]

Not quite seeing the whole multiple manufacturers in the drivetrain yet.

Dave is going on about how this chassis will be perfect, and I know it will be. However multiple drivetrains usually means multiple donors, and that means different suspension geometry for each donor situation. That, in turn, means differing pick-up points for the suspension components that are unlikely to line up with existing tubes in '3d' space or clear hard components while still being optimal.

See my concerns? Different chassis basically means different car/kit, regardless of which body is chosen.

I think the plan is the 'single donor' concept doesn't apply to the alternate drivetrains. You'd use the Subie stuff for everything except motor/trans. That way the handling, etc stays pretty much the same.

[BipDBo]

If we're talking about Ford Ecoboost, I'd only be interested in the 1.0 liter 3 cylinder if it's part of a high power hybrid package. Otherwise, I'd like to see them squeeze in the Ecoboost V6. It might actually fit transversely.

[Someday I Suppose]

That would be my guess, that the suspension and such are pinned to the sube donor, but that if you wanted a different drivetrain, crate engine sort of thing you might have a few options.

I'm just wondering if any of them would have an auto trans with paddle shift option... Would be nice to build a car my wife could drive.


I think the plan is the 'single donor' concept doesn't apply to the alternate drivetrains. You'd use the Subie stuff for everything except motor/trans. That way the handling, etc stays pretty much the same.

[riptide motorsport]

I cannot believe the legs this trerad has grown!

[Wayne Presley]

I cannot believe the legs this trerad has grown!

Me too....

[Steve91T]

I loved the Manta Mirage and Montage ,for that matter....I just talked to Tim LoVette and told him it came up on the forum...that is the style car I would buy from FFR...they were pretty high quality and versatile like you said...I really don't like the idea of the jap drivetrain,even if it is cheap,available to europeans and kids....can you imagine the embarrassment of telling someone your hot new project car is a subaru...even the Noble has a Ford engine....

As I said to you a few days ago, don't build an 818! Once again, problem solved.

[Ks2]

I'm just wondering if any of them would have an auto trans with paddle shift option... Would be nice to build a car my wife could drive.

i recall the auto transmission size was debated in another thread, as for a paddle shift if i recall right the outback and (maybe) forester have paddle shifts with the 'lineartronic' CVT (i know there is a 4 and 5 speed) with 'sport shift' someone who recalls the thread will have to help me remember if the AT even fits, for the WRX's atleast the manual was preferred and so auto transmissions can be found easily

[StatGSR]

I'm just wondering if any of them would have an auto trans with paddle shift option... Would be nice to build a car my wife could drive.

is your wife missing an arm or a leg or something? my guess is that she "could" drive a manual, but doesn't "want" to.... ;)

[Someday I Suppose]

I did try to teach her once, she was pretty good at getting the car in reverse, but forward not so much. While not missing an arm or leg, she is dyslexic which seems to make driving a bit of a chore and less fun for her in general.


is your wife missing an arm or a leg or something? my guess is that she "could" drive a manual, but doesn't "want" to.... ;)

[wrw2497]

ALL of the REAL car guys (and real Americans) I know....DO care about what they drive....I was born here in the USA,and YES,I am pro-American...I support Factory Five because they are an American company (bought two so far)....I was looking for my next project....the reason I looked at this forum....there were no jap cars in this country when I grew up...when Ford and Chevrolet started building cars,the didn't know what a car was....I have owned about a hundred cars,hot rods,street rods,muscle cars,race cars,etc.....I,like most of you, enjoy building/restoring old and newer cars....I do not voice my opinion often....but if you want to feel sorry for someone....feel sorry for the thousands of Americans the killed in the cowardly attack on sunday at pearl harbor,feel sorry for the families ruined by that....they actually wanted to take our country !! It took many American lives to defeat them....after that ,the US helped them rebuild.....Now they have launched another war of economics.....so,feel sorry for all those out of work US auto workers and poor in this country that the are directly resposible for...between them and the chinese,we barely manufacture anything...open YOUR mind and see what's going on.....the are ashamed of what they did and who they are... there is nothing to admire about them.....they steal technology and talent from every country and innovate very little...do you think they invented a 4 cyl boxer engine ? It's just another cheap imitation of someone else's design....The Germans,Italians,English and Americans design and build their own....all you get from the is cheap ...because they don't pay their workers....go tell a veteran or a United Auto Worker how much you "admire" the ....I'm sure they'll be glad to hear it.....Cobras (AC Cars) were built in england....so I'm OK with a Factory Five, American version made by Americans in USA....and as far as "my" brand.....my brand is American....and if you weren't born in America...you won't appreciate the sacrifces REAL Americans made fighting the so you can dishonor them....and you just don't "get it"

[wrw2497]

In the early 80s I left GM in Detroit to work in California for a major Japanese manufacturer. I was surprised at the crap I got about that from some whom I wouldn’t have expected. Most of the static was about Japan, some was Detroit attitude (people were vandalizing Japanese cars because Big 3 jobs were hurting) and some was even anti California bias. To this day, I think my father-in-law (a WW-II vet) has not fully forgiven me.
In the new job I worked with people who saw the war from the other side, even including some friends from Hiroshima and Nagasaki. 98% were perfectly fine but I could tell when there were some bad feelings remaining. The vast majority of my coworkers were newer generation and had no direct memories but frankly the bias, in both directions, didn’t restrict itself to old folks.
I found that there was no accounting for these deep seated feelings that occasionally emerged. Some vets still can’t even talk about their war years so who knows what they went through at that time, or who they lost.
It isn’t up to me to judge them and one just has to realize that people can’t always help the way they feel. You really have to give them some slack and hope they cut you the same.I understand....but the next time you need someone to defend your freedom.....maybe the japs will step up....good luck with that....

[Jeff Kleiner]

...I do not voice my opinion often....

That's probably best.

See what you started Wayne ;)

Jeff

[Benji]

ALL of the REAL car guys (and real Americans) I know....DO care about what they drive....I was born here in the USA,and YES,I am pro-American...I support Factory Five because they are an American company (bought two so far)....I was looking for my next project....the reason I looked at this forum....there were no jap cars in this country when I grew up...when Ford and Chevrolet started building cars,the japs didn't know what a car was....I have owned about a hundred cars,hot rods,street rods,muscle cars,race cars,etc.....I,like most of you, enjoy building/restoring old and newer cars....I do not voice my opinion often....but if you want to feel sorry for someone....feel sorry for the thousands of Americans the japs killed in the cowardly attack on sunday at pearl harbor,feel sorry for the families ruined by that....they actually wanted to take our country !! It took many American lives to defeat them....after that ,the US helped them rebuild.....Now they have launched another war of economics.....so,feel sorry for all those out of work US auto workers and poor in this country that the japs are directly resposible for...between them and the chinese,we barely manufacture anything...open YOUR mind and see what's going on.....the japs are ashamed of what they did and who they are... there is nothing to admire about them.....they steal technology and talent from every country and innovate very little...do you think they invented a 4 cyl boxer engine ? It's just another cheap imitation of someone else's design....The Germans,Italians,English and Americans design and build their own....all you get from the japs is cheap ...because they don't pay their workers....go tell a veteran or a United Auto Worker how much you "admire" the japs....I'm sure they'll be glad to hear it.....Cobras (AC Cars) were built in england....so I'm OK with a Factory Five, American version made by Americans in USA....and as far as "my" brand.....my brand is American....and if you weren't born in America...you won't appreciate the sacrifces REAL Americans made fighting the japs so you can dishonor them....and you just don't "get it"

Troll, troll, troll your boat,
Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily,
Life is but a dream.


Seriously, if you aren't trolling you have some deep ingrained issues which you need to resolve before you continue commenting, I don't want to mock you because it seems that the latter may be true and that is a sad thing.

I respect my elders as much as I can but if we are to progress as a human race, attitudes like yours can no longer continue. I do not want to down play the suffering and pain you may have experienced but the better person inside you needs to look past that and move on.

I really hope you are okay.

[Olli]

This thread is straying way off topic and has shown some unfriendly posts to fellow members. Keep things friendly and maintain respect for your fellow members.

Olli

[bromikl]

Note to all, use the word j*p once and be instantly blocked. It's as offensive as the n-word, and I will not tolerate it. You can keep your damn ignorance, prejudice and bigotry to yourself. Maybe it flies at the bar, or your own garage, but it's extremely inappropriate in a public forum. I'm surprised the administrators haven't already taken action.

[StatGSR]

so, this thread is about WWII and Unions now???? I've seen threads go off topic before but damn!


I should mention but i hope most people on here do know that the some of the most "American" cars sold in the states today are not made by the big three. this is common knowledge right?

[Niburu]

I'm pretty sure there are alot of Americans employed in the US by Japanese owned car companys manufacturing plants. There's German car companies building cars in the US too, oh lordy the Axis is here!
I'm also pretty sure there alot of American car companies that source parts from China and have moved manufacturing jobs to Mexico and South America for some cheap labor.

[Ray]

This thread has spun way out of control and I've closed it.

Ray