Donor guidance please

[duncalope]

Howdy:

I've been lurking and drooling for years, finally got the seed money to buy a donor and the kit money coming in the fall.

I'm at information overload currently.

I plan on buying a donor and am hung on the particulars. I want a 4.6 around the 300 hp mark and might need to buy the base kit instead of the complete. I will be rebuilding the engine/trans and probably adding a cam. I will gut and dispose of the donor and keep all the parts should i need to go base kit route.

From what I've read the 99 to 04 Gt models are right (PI heads), as well as the 99 or 01 cobras (if i can find one for the right price that's my preference due to increased hp and better looking engine). Am i on the right path here with these years and models? If i go this route, is there any surprise mod's i'll need to do that can be avoided by buying other model years (read somewhere about converting from 4 lug to 5 etc)?

Provided those are the right years and models, what are some pitfalls? What should I look at on the car for warning signs? I've noticed they are either bone stock (ideal) or some teenager has seriously modified it (sounds problematic). I'm hoping to find the daily driver that hasn't been rebuilt or messed with.

Being in California, I've noticed a used car trend. People have removed the cats and disclaim that in their posts as buyer smog required. Now, i'm a bargain hunter, that sounds like I can work that guy a little bit more than the car that's already been smogged, but, is that a flag that this was a track car or that it's been driven hard or modded considerably?

Will be a typical test drive, also checking the engine vin against the dashboard. Looking for paint on engine and have heard a sticker on the rear freeze plug usually indicates already rebuilt. What else? Anything to be concerned of on the suspension?

Should I consider buying a wrecked car? is it worth the gamble to pick something up that you can't hear run?

In the Sacramento region if anybody has any suggestions. Already called the place in Berkeley and about fell over when he told me the price for him to compile these parts.

Thanks in advance.

Duncan

[Gumball]

I started my build as a donor project - bought a very clean '94 SVT Cobra back in '09 - but quickly strayed from the use of donor parts and in the end used very little from that car. I've read recently from most new builders - and sage old-timers - that sourcing just those few things you need from a salvage yard or buying one of the "pallet" packages is a much better way to get what you need and avoid all the stuff you don't... including having to figure out how to dispose of the carcass when you're done.

Something to think about and I'm sure that someone here who has done this will provide some guidance.

[lahrs37]

I went with a '93 mustang drive-train. I got the whole engine, all accesories, PCM, and a rebuilt transmission for $3,300 shipped. (I can PM the vendor if you are interested). I thoroughly enjoyed rebuilding the engine, and there is just a TON of info for small block Windsor's. Now, with that said, I have had to replace A LOT of stuff I wasn't planning on. Just yesterday I realized the reason I couldn't get a first start was because the IAC was bad. (I also just HAD to buy a top end kit...)
I bought my kit during the half off sale, so even though I bought the "base kit" I basically optioned it up to a complete kit. If you have the patience, it might be a good idea to slowly build up an engine while you are waiting for the half off sale to come back around.

[R Thomas]

A lot of things your going thru, I have looked fairly extensively at donors with the idea of a base kit. the full year range of potential donors runs from 1987 to 2004. There are a lot of variations over those years in drivetrain. and one major chassis change. And two engine trans groups. 87-95 The V-8 was the 302 and the manual transmission paired to it a T-5. In 94 the Chassis changed from the Fox platform to the SN95. In 99 the was a body style change on the SN95 but the same basic chassis. From 96-04 the engine was the 4.6 2V OHC paired to a T-45 trans. Regarding the 4V 4.6 I would check posts regarding how tight the fit it as its quite a bit wider from what I've heard.

Now for other parts if its a donor. The front lower control arms are different for the different years also mid this periods production ABS systems were added. So how the front arms are located and the position of the spindles varies, to simplify later is wider. The rear end is different as well with different axles in the 94-95 and then wider again to accommodate ABS. The parts from all the years are useable but the final positioning of the wheels will be different. As to lug conversion that applies to 87-93 models.

As to your cat issue the kit accommodates this thru Catted J-pipes (connection between stock manifolds or shorty headers and the side pipes. You will need to buy these anyway for Ca. As to hard driving it seems to me Manual Transmissions and a heavy right foot go hand in hand. Since you plan on rebuilding I wouldn't think you should have an issue.

As to buying a wrecked car would think the big concern would be what the neighbors think of parts of a car laying around. Many people have done it successfully and others thought it was a mistake. Hope this helps.

[duncalope]

Great info guys. Thank you!

I think one of the main reasons I want to tear down a donor is to see the relationship of all the parts, especially the wiring. The wiring has me nervous.

[GoDadGo]

I Stuffed A 383 Chevy & ZF 6-Speed In & Saved A Ton Of Money, But It Has Cost Me A Lot Of Time Doing The Modifications!

I suggest going for the complete kit so that you'll have a 100% new car when it is done.

It is nice working with all new parts too.

Just A Suggestion!

[CraigS]

Great info guys. Thank you!
I think one of the main reasons I want to tear down a donor is to see the relationship of all the parts, especially the wiring. The wiring has me nervous.
I don't think the donor will help you much. There is probably double the wiring in the donor compared to what you need for the FFR. That is why people get the donor harness dieted. If you go carbed small block ford the wiring is pretty simple. If you go efi it gets more complex. 4.6 is more complex yet. I wouldn't worry about the wiring. There is tons of info available here and all over the web. You will be learning new skills w/ this build. Wiring is just one of them.

[clancypm]

I bought a 96 mustang cobra that had been rolled for 3000.00 . It was perfect as far as mechanical,with 65,000 miles. I actually learned a lot in taking the mustang apart, and happy I went the donor route. It's just about at go cart stage still have a little wiring to do, but at a stand still with the cold weather here in MN. Can't wait until the weather warms up so I can get back to work on it.

[walt mckenna]

I specifically wanted an 03 or 04 Mach 1 because they have good power (300+) in stock form, are smooth running, and reliable. I stayed away from anything that was not stock. A Mach 1 of those years in good shape still command high prices, so I went the salvage route. Sites like Copart.com have a good selection of salvage vehicles (there were two Mach 1's in their inventory this morning) and will work with you on pre-inspections. Location of the damage is all important on these vehicles, so look them over carefully. Rollover's are the best with side impacts next and then the bad ones. Stay away from the bad ones unless the car will move around under its own power.

The Mach 1 came with a great engine, 5 bolt lugs, big disc brakes all around, 3:55 posi rear gears, and Hydroboost system to power steering and brakes (recommended). I did not like the TR3650 transmission due to the ratio in first gear (it is very low in order to launch a heavy Mustang). That transmission is not a popular one for gear swapping, so I went with the TKO 600 which requires the purchase of a bellhousing (the TR3650's is integral to the transmission).

I purchased the donor a year before the kit and spent that time separating the parts I wanted from the ones I didn't need. The ones I didn't need, I sold on Ebay and recovered about 60% of the cost of the salvage vehicle. The car crusher gave me $50 for the carcass and he picked it up.

The only things I farmed out were the driveshaft shortening and the wiring modifications. I threw all the wiring and the ECU in a box (weighed 70#'s) and sent it off for dieting. It came back fully tested, with all connections marked and fit like it was designed for the car.

You get so much stuff by going the donor route that sourcing miscellaneous parts and fasteners is not necessary. I spent over 100 man hours taking the donor apart and just under 400 man hours assembling the Mark IV kit. Yes, I would do it again.

PS The 4.6 DOHC engine fits the engine bay much like the Coyote......snug, but everything can be reached either from above or below, so not a problem.

[duncalope]

[QUOTE=walt mckenna;262860]I specifically wanted an 03 or 04 Mach 1 because they have good power (300+) in stock form, are smooth running, and reliable. I stayed away from anything that was not stock. A Mach 1 of those years in good shape still command high prices, so I went the salvage route. Sites like Copart.com have a good selection of salvage vehicles (there were two Mach 1's in their inventory this morning) and will work with you on pre-inspections. Location of the damage is all important on these vehicles, so look them over carefully. Rollover's are the best with side impacts next and then the bad ones. Stay away from the bad ones unless the car will move around under its own power.


All great info thanks. You touched on something that i was looking at yesterday. The copart auction site seemed like a pain if without a license. Did you go the broker route? if so, do you just pick the car and tell him your max price or do you do the bidding/purchase and he blesses the pickup with a certain license?

[jakester888]

Great info guys. Thank you!

I think one of the main reasons I want to tear down a donor is to see the relationship of all the parts, especially the wiring. The wiring has me nervous.

I went the donor route - for the same reasons you are thinking. Despite all the guys telling me that this would be more work. And now after 5 years with a running car - I have to say those guys were right. Sure a donor gives you most of the parts you need. But the problem with donor parts is this:

1) You spend a long time harvesting the parts - this takes a long time away from actually building the car.
2) You spend a lot of time cleaning old parts and deciding in the end to buy half of them new anyway.
3) You spend a lot of time diagnosing problems which are due to old parts. These Mustang OEM parts are 25 years old now or more - you will have issues.
4) The wiring - you will not be able to re-use the Mustang wiring without some serious wire dieting. Way too much headache. I ended up scrapping the donor wiring and going with the Ron Francis solution and new EFI harness from Jegs. The Mustang donor harness came in handy only as a source of adhoc wiring uses.

Conclusion : Donor parts - don't do it if you can avoid it. Buy all new parts, go with the complete kit as an example. I would do it this way if I had it all to do again. In the end I have spent more time and (probably) more money going donor route.

[CraigS]

I went the donor route - for the same reasons you are thinking. Despite all the guys telling me that this would be more work. And now after 5 years with a running car - I have to say those guys were right. Sure a donor gives you most of the parts you need. But the problem with donor parts is this:

1) You spend a long time harvesting the parts - this takes a long time away from actually building the car.
2) You spend a lot of time cleaning old parts and deciding in the end to buy half of them new anyway.
3) You spend a lot of time diagnosing problems which are due to old parts. These Mustang OEM parts are 25 years old now or more - you will have issues.
4) The wiring - you will not be able to re-use the Mustang wiring without some serious wire dieting. Way too much headache. I ended up scrapping the donor wiring and going with the Ron Francis solution and new EFI harness from Jegs. The Mustang donor harness came in handy only as a source of adhoc wiring uses.

Conclusion : Donor parts - don't do it if you can avoid it. Buy all new parts, go with the complete kit as an example. I would do it this way if I had it all to do again. In the end I have spent more time and (probably) more money going donor route.

In addition to jakester's comments, note that there is no one year Mustang that has everything you will want in an FFR. A 94-95 comes closest for suspension pieces but you still need shorter axles and different caliper brackets. Also the 94-95 302 is the last 302 you want. If you want a specific engine, I would find one of the known salvage yards who will pull it along w/ the harness and ship it to you. Some of those yards will put together a pallet. You can get parts from several different cars all on one pallet. To me this is the only way to do donor.

[walt mckenna]

I used the brokerage site: www.easyexport.us which uses the Copart database and allows you to bid directly. There are membership fees involved but the process was easy and bidding was a lot of fun.

[duncalope]

Thank you all. Due to the time delay before buying the kit I went the copart route and bought a donor. Time is the one thing I have for now. 02 GT with only 68k on it. Engine sounded great. Front end damage just enough to score it for 1250. Didn't even protrude far enough to damage the abs controller or spill coolant. Going to remove the fenders and take it for a couple hot laps on some private property to see what she's like before her phoenix event.

[Indy Shu]

Sounds like you got a great deal. I also used a 2002 gt. It all worked very well. I had harness dieted to 'plug and play' which helped a lot. The one thing I changed pretty quickly was to swap to a fox width rear end for wider wheels. Good luck!
John



'02 GT donor, 4.6 sohc, Received #5488 on 5/29/06. 3-link, ps, pb. Hoosier Cobra member (Hoosiercobra.com)

[duncalope]

Good call. I've been looking through alot of build threads and can't seem to find one on this 4.6 2v engine. Have you seen any?

[Indy Shu]

Have you looked over on ffcars.com? There's a 4.6 roadster forum that has lots of info



'02 GT donor, 4.6 sohc, Received #5488 on 5/29/06. 3-link, ps, pb. Hoosier Cobra member (Hoosiercobra.com)

[duncalope]

thank you

[mikepward]

Is a mustang 6 Cylinder donor just as good if I am going the crate motor route? Is the 5 sp the same trans as the v8? Brakes and fuel tank all the same?

Also, what year model rear end do I want. I thought I saw something about the mustangs having different track widths.

[duncalope]

I haven't done any research on the v6 end. Considering i just got a v8, trans, rear end in the donor car with 68k miles for $1250 I don't think i'd go less horsepower to save money. That initial outlay is going to be negligible. Mine is an 02 GT. I will have to go with the stock 17 by 9 rims using this rear end. Some swap out for a fox body mustang so they can cram wider rear rims/tires in the back.

Consider buying the build manual from FFR. It answered a ton of questions i had, the emailed pdf version was only 5 or 10 bucks.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Is a mustang 6 Cylinder donor just as good if I am going the crate motor route? Is the 5 sp the same trans as the v8? Brakes and fuel tank all the same?

Also, what year model rear end do I want. I thought I saw something about the mustangs having different track widths.

'94 and later V6 Mustang can supply the spindles and front brakes, rack, pedal box & fuel tank as well as a few other assorted bits and pieces however the trans and rear end are different and not strong enough for use with a V8. In my opinion not enough to be worth the effort of using one as a donor unless you can get the whole works for just a few hundred bucks and get most of that back by hauling the carcass to the scrapyard.

Jeff

[mikepward]

You guys are a wealth of knowledge. Thank you much