LearningCurve's 818C Build [Archive]

LearningCurve

12-28-2016, 07:56 PM

The build process has officially started. Time to start a new thread.

Quick recap. I picked up an 04 WRX with 168K miles at auction back in August. It started and went into gear but the rust on the body was quite extensive. I spent the next 8 weeks tearing the car down and cleaning up the parts. There is still a lot to be done with the old parts (engine and transmission included) but at least the process has started.

The 818C kit was delivered at the beginning of November and other then completing the inventory there has not been much action. The options I went with were the powder coating, aluminum shifter, and upgraded vinyl interior.

The goal for the car is to make it street legal, ~300hp, and to learn as much as I can along the way.

Donor Car Teardown (http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?21884-LearningCurve-s-Donor-Teardown)

flynntuna

12-28-2016, 08:03 PM

Great way to start the new year!

LearningCurve

12-28-2016, 08:31 PM

One of the things I did complete in the last week was reassembling the de-powered steering. I went the route of removing the inner seal so that there was no need to tie the two sides together with external fittings and tubing. I went as far as removing the chamber fittings and filled the holes with some JB weld. I also reused some of the old fittings (also filled with JB weld) to seal the valve assembly gear box. I did not weld the quill in the pinion assembly as I don't have a welder so I am hoping this won't make a noticeable difference. Overall it turned out well.

https://goo.gl/photos/kyvH8i8pd9gvG2Ci8

LearningCurve

12-29-2016, 01:23 PM

The biggest holdup on making any progress over the last few weeks has been trying to find a place to store all of the body panels. My garage is already full of parts and there is just barely enough room to work. Most of the body panels I was able to store on this large self in our bedroom (the gf is being very supportive in this adventure). The hardtop was the biggest challenge of all. My garage ceiling is not super high so hanging it from there was not going to be an option. I had almost resorted to placing it on my deck and securing it down with a tarp but luckily it didn't have to come to that. My girlfriend's sister and brother-in-law offered to let me store it in their unfinished basement in their new home. I couldn't be more grateful. I had to rent a Uhaul cargo van (9') to get it over there but it was worth the cost knowing that it will be safe until I am ready for it. For those that are interested, the hardtop fits almost perfectly in the Uhaul cargo van.

With the hardtop off the frame I was finally able to start making some progress with putting on the floor pans. Clecos are an impressive little device. I went ahead and bought a pneumatic rivet gun (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000PWY8PG/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1). It is a bit tedious to use since it does not want to eject the spent rivet and ends up getting jammed if I don't manually remove it each time. Still better than a hand operated rivet gun.

https://goo.gl/photos/hahcGUutc4tKWR9y5

STiPWRD

12-29-2016, 01:51 PM

fastzrex

12-29-2016, 05:53 PM

Good to see another build. I feel the pain; I delayed delivery of my 818C for almost a year due to space (other projects not going according to plan) and time. And storage of the body components take of a lot of space. Once completed, it will be worth your time!

Loring

12-29-2016, 10:57 PM

Welcome to it. A lot of great folks here. Looking forward to progress pics. :)

LearningCurve

12-30-2016, 12:04 PM

Glad to see you're up and running! Did you have a plan for attaching the seats? It might be tricky with the floor pan riveted in place - I waited to permanently attach mine after finalizing the seats.

This had not occurred to me as I was just following the instructions for the manual. Hopefully it won't be that much of an issue.

LearningCurve

01-11-2017, 08:03 PM

I went ahead and had all of the bare metal parts powder coated. It was sort of a pain trying to keep track of the exact box I pulled them from but in the end I feel they turned out well.

https://goo.gl/photos/R9pZMe5aHt9CQtRr7

LearningCurve

01-11-2017, 08:21 PM

This past weekend I finished up the sheet metal for the firewall and started on the control arms. The sharkhide was slow to be delivered so I will have to go back and try to apply that to the aluminum that was already riveted on.

https://goo.gl/photos/P6UyTAEATLwBmdqG7

A few years ago I had the wheel bearings replaced on my 04 WRX. It ended up being rather expensive and since this is something I wanted to learn how to do I went ahead and purchased a shop press. Well that was delivered yesterday and in the process of putting it together I found that that jack was leaking pretty bad and the frame was missing a few parts. I hit up the seller (Ebay) and they said they would send me some replacements. We will see how that goes so with any luck I will be attempting to rebuild the spindles in the next week or so.

LearningCurve

01-19-2017, 08:35 PM

Replacement jack arrived so I started rebuilding the front knuckles. At this point I completely disassembled both knuckles and now I am debating on the best method to clean and paint them before reassembly. Earlier, I ran both knuckles through the electrolysis tank so other than some surface rust they are in pretty decent shape.

Thus far I am pretty happy with the shop press. The new jack is in much better shape then the original and it had no problem pressing out the bearings. While not always the cheapest method, having the right tools makes the job so much easier.

https://goo.gl/photos/EJ9zwMqjmAxv5tEn8

turbomacncheese

01-19-2017, 10:11 PM

Oh man, been debating a press. Got a quick list of what it would be handy for? All I can ever think of is wheel bearings.

Shawn818c

01-20-2017, 06:38 PM

great progress thus far! I used to live in Gainesville VA, small world....

LearningCurve

01-22-2017, 09:12 PM

I started painting the front knuckle this weekend. I just went with some black caliper paint. This should be plenty durable enough. I also started installing the front suspension. I had to modify the brackets that were bolted to the control arms a bit. There was just too much of a weld bead to get the bolt flush with the bracket. By grinding down some of the excess weld I was able to get the bolt flush in the bracket which then allowed the strut bolt to slide through the eye much easier.

https://goo.gl/photos/F1WxZWbYRaFHqAzc8

LearningCurve

01-30-2017, 07:56 PM

This weekend I finished rebuilding the front knuckles with new bearings and got them mocked up on the frame. I also installed the steering rack. I have not yet decided on brakes or rotors yet so I need to start thinking about those.

https://goo.gl/photos/6Du15BVPREKxKQPf7

After finishing up on the front knuckles I started taking the rears apart. The first one came apart without too much difficulty and have it to the point of being ready for cleaning and paint. As for the second one, I couldn't get the spindle to budge. I am using a 20 ton press. I ended up damaging my pressing tool from the amount of force being applied. I am trying to avoid having to buy a new one so I think I will take it over to a local mechanic and see if they can get to pressed out. I also still have to deal with the lateral link bolt that is still seized in both of the rear knuckles. I think I might be able to grind and drill the rest of that out though.

https://goo.gl/photos/JEEhztJdfSbgJTfq5

Zach34

01-31-2017, 02:00 AM

Use heat on those lateral link bolts. Once you have the bearings out, and if you can get hold of an acetylene torch, heat the area of the spindle where the bolt passes through. No need to get it red hot - maybe just the slightest shade of dark red at most. If you don't have access to an acetylene torch, the little Oxy/MAPP gas setups they sell at Home Depot will probably do the trick. Propane probably won't get it hot enough. The bolts look decent in your pictures. Might be worth salvaging.

STiPWRD

01-31-2017, 09:20 AM

If applying heat doesn't work, you could also try spraying everything with PB blaster and letting it sit for a few days. Then on the press, when loaded up, try tapping the spindle with a hammer (try hammering in the direction of the press load, not sideways!). The shock impulses can help wiggle the bearings free but you have to be careful not to hammer the whole thing out of the press, safety goggles will help. This method has worked form in the past with stubborn bearings. If you need a home depot map gas torch, let me know.

UnhipPopano

01-31-2017, 09:56 AM

Consider the problems you may have with the spindl if corrosion is so bad that you can not get it apart. At what point do you decide that it is a waste of money and time to continue, rather than to replace it?

LearningCurve

02-06-2017, 07:29 PM

I appreciate everyone's advice on the rear knuckle and spindle issue. I tried everything you guys mentioned (PB Blaster, tapping it with hammer, and applying some heat). I just could not get the thing to budge. I took it over to a mechanic not far from my house and he was able to press it out in about 20 minutes. I asked him how he did it and he said he did everything I did except for the heat. He recommended against applying heat to the knuckle as it could weaken the metal. The spindle will definitely need to be replaced but the knuckle is still in good shape. After getting the inner race press out I moved on to removing the sized bolt. I ended up drilling out the bolt from the one side of the knuckle and this then allowed me to break the other end free with a breaker bar.

After cleaning up and painting the knuckles they look pretty good.

https://goo.gl/photos/xsgNNVawqbY2zgNr5

Zach34

02-06-2017, 11:26 PM

Wow those long bolts look worse than I thought from the earlier pictures.

Heat won't weaken the cast metal parts - I think what you're referring to as the "knuckle" - as they are not heat-treated. Otherwise it'd be a poor choice for engine blocks.

Glad you got it apart. Nothing more frustrating than rusted-together parts.

LearningCurve

02-28-2017, 07:50 PM

I spent the last few weekends trying to finish up rebuilding the rear axle housing and parking brake. I purchased a couple of new backing plates for the rear axle housing as as luck would have it the bolt holes did not like up completely so I spent a day grinding the holes out. I pressed in new bearings and so far they are looking good. I am now trying to remember where all of the parking brake pieces go and ensuring I have it all installed correctly.

https://goo.gl/photos/wxLbdFSxdBskm3FY9

Since I had to essentially cut out the rear suspension from the donor car due to the amount of rust, I have on order a new set of trailing arms and lateral links. I hope to get those by the end of the week.

Not much else to report. I still have not decided on brakes yet. For a much as I would like a Wilwood big brake kit I just can't seem to justify the cost. I think I might just end up going with a new set of Power Stops.

LearningCurve

04-17-2017, 07:03 PM

Finally got the rear knuckles and the parking brake rebuilt. Also got them mounted to the rear suspension.

https://goo.gl/photos/wxLbdFSxdBskm3FY9

Rear axles were cleaned up and rebuilt as well.

https://goo.gl/photos/cVFT5CqH2jjkkdYKA

The fuel pump assembly was in pretty bad shape from all of the rust so I cleaned that up and rebuilt it with a new Walbro.

https://goo.gl/photos/Si5c7PpvArrUngYd9

LearningCurve

04-17-2017, 07:21 PM

Now on to the scary stuff. I started tearing the engine down last weekend. I have all of the accessory parts off and am pretty much just left with the long block with the belt still attached. I took a ton of photos so when it comes time I should just be able to follow them in reverse to put it back together.

https://goo.gl/photos/WvrNXBVvwiLtwbgE8

If it is not already obvious, the next step is to get the belt and heads off without damaging any of the valves or other internals. I am still planning to go the route of a hybrid build using a new STI short block and reusing the old heads. Rebuilding this engine is really where I want to be able to do as much of it myself as I can. I am nervous about what it will take to get the heads into decent shape while ensuring that the new motor is reliable. I don't plan on going to crazy with this build. Worst case, if I get myself in too deep I will just outsource the rest of the rebuild.

turbomacncheese

04-17-2017, 08:06 PM

Best of luck removing the heads. Mine were bears. On the other hand, my steering knuckles were super easy, so maybe you've already paid the piper, so to speak.

LearningCurve

04-23-2017, 10:47 AM

This weekend I started tearing down the long block. I start with the timing belt removal procedure. Since I had not done this before it was good practice to ensure I fully understood the concepts of aligning all of the cam shafts and avoiding any valve interference. With the belt and pulleys off I a went ahead and removed the oil pump and water pump. After putting everything back together I start working on the cam shaft bolts. I had read what a pain these can be to get off and my experience was much the same. Using the old timing belt and the vise grip method I was able to break free 3 of the bolts with little difficulty. It had to the last bolt that broke my 10mm Allen socket and in the process broke one of the cam sprockets. I ended up drilling out the center of the bolt and then was able to break it free.

https://goo.gl/photos/LP6pBpFKGDGFg2zWA

One additional note. Before removing the timing belt I attempted testing the cylinder compression with a gauge I recently picked up off of amazon. I was only able to get any compression out of one of the cylinders and that only came out to 30PSI. During the compression stroke on the other three cylinders I can hear the air escaping by either the intake valves or the exhaust valves. Not great news but it means that I will probably have to outsource my heads to be rebuilt. Probably for the best.

turbomacncheese

04-23-2017, 11:51 AM

I did a leakdown on mine and only found one cylinder to lock up tight. It was an insurance wreck with a broken timing belt, but I can only see one bent valve. Others might be, but very slight. I've completely disassembled them, and the valve faces (that contact the seats) are concave rounded (140,000 miles, supposedly)

For what it's worth, I don't think I would put much stock in a compression test if you had to turn the engine by hand, but I might be wrong.

LearningCurve

05-02-2017, 07:19 PM

This past weekend I took on the task of removing the cylinders heads from the engine. Again, documenting everything as I went along. There is lots of carbon build up on the valves and in the combustion chamber, which I also noticed when first removing the spark plugs. I also found the problem with getting no compression in one of the cylinders. A fairly large piece of one of the exhaust valves is missing. Obviously that will have to be replaced. I will have to do so research to see how much of the old components can be cleaned up and reused versus buying replacements. I know valves are not all the expensive but I want to be careful about going down that road of replacing everything since that will all start to add up quickly. Again, I am not looking for any crazy numbers from the build and to me it is more about the learning process.

https://goo.gl/photos/iNfiMZi6JqnWudbE6

STiPWRD

05-03-2017, 07:35 AM

The block and heads seem to be in good shape apart from needing a good cleaning. I couldn't see any cracks, even around the spark plug areas, which is a good sign. Never seen that type of valve failure though, that's interesting. I have a spare set of used heads if you need any components like valves (a couple are bent though but some should be good). I certainly got bit by the "replace everything" bug for sure, it's tough to resist since everything is already taken apart. Are you taking the block apart too?

turbomacncheese

05-04-2017, 01:11 AM

Burned valves can have all sorts of interestingly shaped holes. If the valves were leaking so bad you couldn't get any compression, it's easy to see how they could burn so that might be it.

LearningCurve

05-05-2017, 05:59 PM

I removed the broken exhaust valve from the cylinder head and it is worse than I expected. The cylinder head also has a chunk of metal missing from it as well in the same location. Any ideas is this is repairable?

https://goo.gl/photos/j9rE4qX1LgKkCiuo7

I may take the remaining short block apart at some point but since I don't plan on reusing it, it would only be done as an act of curiosity.

LearningCurve

06-20-2017, 06:32 PM

Where has all the time gone....

As it turns out, I was told it is not advised to try and repair any damage to the heads where the valve seats. So this means I had to source another head from Ebay. I found one that had a few bent valves that I could use as a core have rebuilt. I disassembled the heads myself and dropped them off at AndrewTech to be cleaned, decked, and have a valve job done. I got them back a few weeks ago and started rebuilding them last weekend. They look brand new at this point. The only pieces I am still missing are the cylinder head plugs so I have added that to my growing list of needed parts.

https://goo.gl/photos/4jbtGCtmVfJ4QGFm6

LearningCurve

06-20-2017, 06:47 PM

While waiting for the heads to be cleaned and the new short block to arrive I went ahead and started cleaning a prepping other engine accessories and brackets.

TGV Delete and Parts Cleanup:
https://goo.gl/photos/hndqUsM2BLtra9YEA

The new short block arrived and I must say I was less than thrilled with the packaging. The output shaft appears to have been been forced through the box on multiple occasions. I am hoping this is not a sign of any internal damage.

New Short Block
https://goo.gl/photos/eXf5KeoH7p883cBy8

So after much research I settled on a hybrid (2.0 Head to 2.5 Block) build using the JE pistons to drop the compression ratio. I felt this option was the most cost effective for getting a forged piston at the correct compression ratio while avoiding the additional cost to have the heads chamber matched to the 2.5 block. Right now I am in the middle of installing the piston rings and making sure my gaps are correct.

https://goo.gl/photos/sZJVYNwXddCsuhHL8

turbomacncheese

06-20-2017, 08:10 PM

What size are the old pistons you took out? I'm about to send my block off, and I need a set larger than standard (99.75mm? 100mm?).

EODTech87

06-20-2017, 09:16 PM

He said it was a new short block so it would be 99.5mm

turbomacncheese

06-21-2017, 12:29 AM

Thanks.

LearningCurve

08-21-2017, 06:44 PM

I finished up with the pistons a few weeks ago and then got the new short block on the engine stand. With the heads bolted up (ARP studs) I went through the process of setting the correct lash and had to order up a few shimless buckets to get everything within the correct tolerance.

https://goo.gl/photos/QpC8ApXTMoXsrX6y6

As I have had the time I will add a piece or two to the engine. The process has been slow since I am still having to clean and prep parts as I go and I am still finding some parts that are beyond repair and require them to be ordered from the dealer. Eventually I will get back to actually building the car.

Engine Progress:
https://goo.gl/photos/53mPyuM9YsC1nPUm6

Parts Cleanup:
https://goo.gl/photos/pQvEvs4LLBzxiQAdA

STiPWRD

08-22-2017, 07:44 AM

The engine is looking real nice. I noticed your upper coolant cross over has the hard line going over the bell housing; depending on your intercooler plan (AWIC?) this may cause an annoying interference later. I had the same cross over originally but replaced it with one of these:
72678
They go for ~$30-40 on ebay and now is a good time to replace it since the intake manifold is off. Likewise, it's a good time to do Wayne's cooling mod.

chado skins

09-04-2017, 09:40 PM

do you plan on running AWIC? was wondering since it's a coupe it has the added roof vent for air to the engine. i wonder if the vents will allow enough air to the IC to keep temps down so that an AWIC isn't necessary?

turbomacncheese

09-06-2017, 10:42 PM

Some guys have had good results building a 2-part plenum over the AAIC and keeping the ducting separate for both parts.

LearningCurve

02-02-2018, 07:11 PM

Been a few months since I posted so I thought I would give a quick update.

Engine was finished up in November and got it installed without too much trouble. Clutch and transmission went in smoothly as well. Getting the rear axles in was a pain since the only way I could figure out how to do it was to completely disassemble everything first.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/lIzzGAbJlAO9gJoh1

Gas tank also went in. I did use some fuel cell foam and a hydramat to hopefully prevent any starvation issues.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/2PfhklPg6nueU6Aw1

I also installed the brake and clutch lines. I am not real happy with the brake line routing and I am almost sure I will have some leaks given it was my first attempt at flaring. I will consider this my practice run and once I prime the lines, see what needs to be replaced and if I can route it any better.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/yXXmmAveE9IpBPTJ3

Also got the radiator and AWIC installed. I am going with a hybrid BOV/BPV. The biggest pain for the AWIC was getting the re-circulation line connected. If the line coming off the BPV is not angled correctly, getting it to line up with the re-circulation line at the turbo inlet is a pain. Have not mounted the pump or run the lines from the intercooler yet.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/MluxcUmmptZ8df5r1

Finally decided on the brakes and just finished up installing those last week.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/gjn2qHb0Nkxj9Poq1

Up next is the wiring harness, which I plan to try and do myself.

turbomacncheese

02-02-2018, 10:52 PM

Looking sharp! Your just a little bit ahead of me, which makes me feel good. You got this wiring thing!!

LearningCurve

04-25-2018, 04:27 PM

The wiring harness has been quite the undertaking. Dieting was slow to start but once I got an understanding of how everything was linked together it went much quicker in the end. I ended up taking about 20 lbs out of the harness and that was just for stuff I knew I did not need. I am now in the process of trying to fit and mount the fuse boxes and ECU to then get the wiring routed as cleanly as possible. What I find most frustrating is not knowing exactly where mounting something may or may not be an issue later on as the build progresses while also trying to ensure that the fuse boxes are placed in an accessible location in case there are issues later down the road.

Once I finish up with this harness I hope to start the final prep work (fluids and brakes) to attempt an engine start by mid summer.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/P7Hq05P3IkSonqJC2

turbomacncheese

04-25-2018, 10:44 PM

Whoa. Looking good, though.

LearningCurve

06-25-2018, 11:29 AM

Finally finished up the wiring harness and am crossing my fingers that a ton of troubleshooting won't be needed.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/dBKmMIGBfhOhfmKh1

I installed the seats and harness bar last weekend. I found that there was plenty of room for the drivers seat using the FFR gas tank. What I struggled with was getting the passenger seat to fit correctly. Since I went with aftermarket seats I had to also purchase a couple of seat brackets that I modified in order to get everything to fit correctly. I modified the provided FFR seat brackets as well to raise the passenger seat up a few inches in order to get it to fit.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/kcSjyEV4TwK6kh1t8

longislandwrx

06-25-2018, 02:48 PM

Think you just sold about 10 iwire harnesses.

are these the NRG reclining seats on ebay?

818sNH

06-25-2018, 05:21 PM

I have to same seats. They are pretty nice for the money.

Where did you purchase the brackets?

818sNH

06-25-2018, 07:03 PM

I have to same seats. They are pretty nice for the money.

Where did you purchase the brackets?

LearningCurve

06-27-2018, 02:33 PM

Think you just sold about 10 iwire harnesses.

are these the NRG reclining seats on ebay?

I strongly considered the iwire harness and would advise anyone not comfortable or not wanting to deal with wiring to look into it as well. For me, it was more for the learning process. Yes it was a pain but taking the harness apart and following where all the connections went and how everything works as compared to the wiring schematic was a very valuable experience.

The seats are made by Cipher and yes they are reclining.

I have to same seats. They are pretty nice for the money.

Where did you purchase the brackets?

I got the brackets off of amazon.
https://www.amazon.com/Subaru-Impreza-Racing-Bucket-Bracket/dp/B00QI6T150/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1530130223&sr=8-1&keywords=For+Subaru+Impreza+WRX%2FSTi+Racing+Bucke t

mistasherm

06-27-2018, 03:05 PM

[QUOTE=LearningCurve;330282]I strongly considered the iwire harness and would advise anyone not comfortable or not wanting to deal with wiring to look into it as well. For me, it was more for the learning process. Yes it was a pain but taking the harness apart and following where all the connections went and how everything works as compared to the wiring schematic was a very valuable experience.

I knew NOTHING about car wiring and saw the harness as a challenge. I printed K3LAG's approach to wiring and the wiring diagram for my donor; put it all in a binder and went after it. I learned a ton and have a pretty complete understanding of how it all works after going through it.

I am currently trying to figure out my seat installation and will look into these brackets to see if they will help. I have the NRG seats - they seem pretty well made and comfortable for the price and I'm a Wookie (6'2" | 230lbs).

LearningCurve

07-07-2018, 03:53 PM

I started working on the shifter over the last few weeks and as should come to no surprise to most, the FFR shifter setup is less that optimal. I am attempting to use the aluminium FFR shifter with the long cables on a 5 speed. Shifting into 3rd and 4th is possible but it does not go very smoothly. Shifting into 5th or Reverse is impossible from the shifter. From the back of transmission shifting through the gears is not a problem. At this point I don't think I have any other choice but to consider the MR2 option or Wayne's option. Very disappointed with the FFR setup.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/7cYXZNMftc8VKsuZA

Leaning towards the MR2 option right now. Anybody have or know someone who may have a MR2 shifter for sale?

Hobby Racer

07-07-2018, 09:31 PM

You can turn the FFR aluminum shifter around if you want. :D

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?23199-John-s-EZ36R-H6-818R-Build&p=270236&viewfull=1#post270236

redfogo

07-08-2018, 09:23 AM

Join the mr2 for sale Facebook page lots of part outs. Other option is http://mr2enthusiast.com or https://www.rat2motorsports.com/collections. Those to 2 companies part out mr2s often as well. Not many people need shifters other then 818 folks so you will probably just need to email them asking if they have the part since it probably won't be listed. 85-92 shifters are longer throw 93+ cost more and are shorter.

For the position my shifter is at in my 818 I used a 85-92 shifter. 93s are nice and are my favoret if you drive an mr2. Just require more hight in the 818 for well.

LearningCurve

07-10-2018, 05:31 PM

Just for future comparison sake.....

www.mr2oc.com - No response from my request for a shifter.
Ebay - JDM 91-99 TOYOTA MR2 MR-2 TURBO SHIFTER BOX - $159.99
rat2motorsports - Got a response within 24 hours and they wanted $85 for a 85-89 AW11.
MR2enthusiast - Got a response within 12 hours and scored a shifter for $30 plus shipping.

Custom Cables - 100-4222-0084 - $91 each + shipping

kcarlasc

07-10-2018, 07:38 PM

Check out Wayne’s shifters too.. really nice. I have his 6 speed

http://www.verycoolparts.com/shifter.htm

LearningCurve

07-19-2018, 05:30 PM

I did consider Wayne's shifter as it does look very nice but as always, I am trying to keep cost in check. As it stands now I am in for just around $100 for the MR2 shifter, which will include replacing all of the bushings and a few other parts. Even with the shorter cables that still only comes out to around $300.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/8RYi43DHSfEa3g7T7

Parts number for those interested:
Large Bushing at end of shifter - 33556-17010
Small Bushing at end of shifter - 33548-12040
Spring - 90508-22001
Mounting plate bushings - 90389-08031
Aluminum Sleeve for mounting plate bushing - 90389-10016

LearningCurve

08-06-2018, 08:52 AM

This weekend I finished installing the MR2 shifter with shorter cables and the bell crank from Zero Decibel. I am really happy with the way it turned out. It is not going to be nearly as pretty looking as the billet aluminum shifter but it is way more functional and has lots of room for adjustments. I did recess the shifter fairly low in the center tunnel because I wanted to keep the shifter with a low profile. Right now it is not interfering with anything but if it becomes an issue I can remove one of the spacers at each corner and bring it up an inch.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/XYt5nrc5gbyYRQKv6

LearningCurve

08-25-2018, 12:16 PM

FIRST START!!!

I finished up bleeding the brakes and topping off all of the fluids. At this point I have put in about almost 4 gallons of coolant. I put in about 2 gallons of gas and filled her up with non synthetic 5W-40. I went through the oil priming procedure by disconnecting the fuel pump and the connectors for the spark plugs and injectors. I engaged the starter and within a few seconds the oil pressure light went off. I did that for a few times just to ensure good circulation. After reconnecting the fuel pump and ignition, I cycled the fuel pump a few times to try and prime the fuel inline. I then pushed it out of the garage just to be on the safe side of starting my house on fire. After that the video speaks for itself. Fired up almost immediately. I was shocked. I drove it around the block shortly after.

Now for the disconcerting news. After my drive around the block I noticed that during idle and any amount of throttle, I am getting lots of smoke. Even after letting it come up to temp in the driveway I am noticing it get much rougher at idle and at times won't stay running. I am guessing there is quite a bit of oil burning and possibly getting on the spark plugs. I can even start to see drips of oil being flung out the back of the turbo. I know this could be any number of things but I am looking for advice on how concerned I should be about this right now.

This is a new 2.5 shortblock with JE hybrid pistons and rebuilt 2.0 heads. The turbo was also rebuilt. Is it possible that I just need to get the rings to seat or is this amount of oil burning excessive for even that to be the case?

https://photos.app.goo.gl/n7cMqVyCuPyD2Rm26

Zach34

08-25-2018, 04:57 PM

That's an excessive amount of smoke. My guess is not unseated rings. Start with the simple things first. Is there oil in the intake manifold?

LearningCurve

09-03-2018, 11:02 AM

That's an excessive amount of smoke. My guess is not unseated rings. Start with the simple things first. Is there oil in the intake manifold?

So right now I am feeling less than optimistic about this. I am not entirely convinced it is oil that is burning. The smoke appears more white than blue and the residual coming out of the end of the turbo is not as oily as I would think it should be if it were oil. It is very burnt whatever it is so it is hard for me to tell if it is coolant or not. I did a compression test on a cold motor and all 4 cylinders were between 152 and 160. All 4 spark plugs have the same coating of burnt liquid on them. I removed the intercooler to throttle body connection to see if I could see any oil or coolant in the intake manifold and it is all very clean and dry. No signs of anything leaking from the turbo into the manifold.

I am open to any additional suggestions.

flynntuna

09-03-2018, 01:14 PM

How old is the turbo?

LearningCurve

09-03-2018, 02:25 PM

How old is the turbo?

Not exactly sure. I purchased it rebuilt from Busted Finger Motorsports. The exterior of the turbo looks really good. I can only assume it was rebuilt correctly. Since I don't see oil or coolant in the intercooler, throttle body, or intake, I am guessing it is not the turbo.

Here are few photos of the turbo as it was being installed and from today after I ran the car for a few minutes.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/AfAr3sGWku4zLAQw6

https://www.bustedfingermotorsports.com/index.html

Hobby Racer

09-03-2018, 03:56 PM

Since your intercooler and intake are clean and dry it does not sound like its your turbo. Unfortunately it sounds like something in the heads. I know you did a compression test but you should do a leak down test to see if there is a crack or something allowing coolant into the combustion chamber.

Where the plugs coated in both cylinder banks or just one side?

STiPWRD

09-04-2018, 08:20 AM

LearningCurve

09-04-2018, 12:02 PM

Did you use the head gasket for an EJ20 or EJ25? I'm running the same setup as you and didn't have this issue (EJ257 block with JE hybrid pistons, EJ205 heads). You should be using the EJ25 head gaskets. Did you have the heads resurfaced before you installed them or check their flatness? Any other work done to them?

By the way, congrats on the first start - even though you're still working out the kinks, that's a big milestone in itself!

EDIT: I looked back at your earlier posts and saw you're running the correct head gasket and had the heads re-decked at Andrewtech. Everything looks like it was done right, still scratching my head. Is there a chance you missed some kind of coolant o-ring? When you got the heads back, did you verify their flatness with a straight edge?

Thanks for giving this a thought. I have been going over the engine build photos I took trying to think of what might went wrong and I can't think of anything. If I did miss a coolant o-ring, I am not sure where that might have been. I don't recall putting any o-rings in when I bolted the heads to the short block and all coolant paths outside the engine appear to be holding up. Since the short block was brand new, I didn't do anything to it besides swap out the pistons. As for the heads, they were professionally cleaned and decked. I don't recall personally checking them with a straight edge but from the photos you can see the mating surface looks very clean. The one thing I didn't do when rebuilding the heads was oil the valve stem seals when installing them. Assuming I am burning oil and not coolant, I don't think that would be causing this issue.

Head Rebuild:
https://goo.gl/photos/4jbtGCtmVfJ4QGFm6

Piston Swap:
https://goo.gl/photos/sZJVYNwXddCsuhHL8

Head Install:
https://goo.gl/photos/QpC8ApXTMoXsrX6y6

LearningCurve

09-04-2018, 12:05 PM

STiPWRD

09-04-2018, 12:56 PM

LearningCurve

09-05-2018, 08:26 AM

Do you recall what you gapped the piston rings to? I can't remember where I got these numbers (maybe JE) but I used:
compression ring 17-18 mils gap
oil control ring 20-22 mils gap
Your compression numbers look good though.

Also, does the smoke start immediately or after a few minutes? A few more thoughts on the turbo - is there a chance coolant is leaking into it? You could try plugging the turbo coolant lines (or just bypassing the turbo) to see if this stops the smoke. Also, there's a restrictor hole on the oil fitting going into the turbo, if this hole was drilled out to a larger size, it could be pumping too much oil into the turbo. Is there any chance the oil drain line going back to the pan is clogged?

Sounds like you already bought a leak down tester but I remember someone recommending this one: UVIEW 560000 Combustion Leak Tester

Those numbers look right. I followed JE's spec as closely as I could. Yes, compression is good so I don't think it is a ring issue but I am not sure if this could be an issue with then not being seated yet.
https://www.jepistons.com/PDFs/TechCorner/SCPDrawings/piston_instrc4032.pdf

After having not messed with the car for a week and cleaning the spark plugs before start-up, the smoke took a minute before it was noticeable and the engine ran fairly smooth. After a few minutes, the smoke got much more noticeable and the engine again started to run very rough. After shutting the engine down for a few minutes and starting it back up the smoke was immediate.

Back to the turbo. Correct me if am wrong, but if coolant or oil were leaking from the turbo, wouldn't I see this in the throttle body and intake manifold? Even if the liquid were just dripping back down the up-pipe, it may be creating smoke as it gets burned off but I don't see how it would be making it into the chamber and getting on the plugs. If the leak tester does not show anything conclusive I think the next step would be to pull the turbo off for a closer inspection.

STiPWRD

09-05-2018, 09:23 AM

LearningCurve

09-05-2018, 10:32 AM

I was thinking that the coolant/oil could be leaking into the turbine side of the turbo and then getting vaporized by the exhaust. It would be pretty tough for anything to drip into the up-pipe since all of the exhaust pressure would be pushing the opposite direction.

Also, how are your fuel trims? Any chance you upgraded the injectors and are running on the rich side? This can cause soot to build up on the plugs. I know it's a long shot...
92673

I did upgrade injectors. Deatschwerks 565 or 650. Can't recall off the top of head exactly which but it was nothing crazy. The thought that maybe I was running too rich had crossed my mind. I am not sure that explains all of the symptoms though.

Here are a couple of photos of the liquid getting shot out the turbo.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/J2TSwxRjJsnjyopC8

STiPWRD

09-05-2018, 11:46 AM

It looks like there's a crack in the turbine housing wastegate area at about the 11 o'clock mark. Not sure what's directly behind it (coolant or oil) but that could explain the smoke.

If you upgraded injectors and did not reflash the ECU to account for that then you will definitely be running rich and getting some black spark plugs. Stock injectors are specified in the ECU at 420cc and then the ECU makes small adjustments to the real flow rate through fuel trims. 565 or 650 would be a big difference over stock.

Hobby Racer

09-05-2018, 01:21 PM

It looks like there's a crack in the turbine housing wastegate area at about the 11 o'clock mark. Not sure what's directly behind it (coolant or oil) but that could explain the smoke.

That is a very common issue with the VF39 turbo and a some others, its all over nasioc. It does not seem to effect performance unless its very bad. There is no coolant or oil behind it.

STiPWRD

09-05-2018, 02:29 PM

That is a very common issue with the VF39 turbo and a some others, its all over nasioc. It does not seem to effect performance unless its very bad. There is no coolant or oil behind it.

You're right, it's just exhaust gas behind there. Might be worth removing the turbine housing to check the actual CHRA for cracks.

LearningCurve

09-05-2018, 02:38 PM

That is a very common issue with the VF39 turbo and a some others, its all over nasioc. It does not seem to effect performance unless its very bad. There is no coolant or oil behind it.

Yes. Not concerned about this at all. My other VF series turbo has had the same crack in it for the last 10ish years (100K miles) and not given me any issues.

Bob_n_Cincy

09-05-2018, 07:01 PM

I noticed that during idle and any amount of throttle, I am getting lots of smoke. Even after letting it come up to temp in the driveway I am noticing it get much rougher at idle and at times won't stay running. I am guessing there is quite a bit of oil burning and possibly getting on the spark plugs. I can even start to see drips of oil being flung out the back of the turbo. I know this could be any number of things but I am looking for advice on how concerned I should be about this right now.
https://photos.app.goo.gl/n7cMqVyCuPyD2Rm26

All 4 spark plugs have the same coating of burnt liquid on them. I removed the intercooler to throttle body connection to see if I could see any oil or coolant in the intake manifold and it is all very clean and dry. No signs of anything leaking from the turbo into the manifold.

I am open to any additional suggestions.

From this info. It sounds like oil is getting into the intake after the throttle body. Maybe a bad PCV valve.
Bob

DMC7492

09-05-2018, 07:52 PM

Bob_n_Cincy

09-05-2018, 09:13 PM

Just another thought. Did somebody forget the valve seals?
Bob

STiPWRD

09-06-2018, 08:10 AM

Rich condition would be black smoke but no oily smoot out of the turbo. I believe the engine would flood out before you saw the juice out the exhaust. It would run rough until it stalls.
I inadvertently tested this out by installing 820cc injectors and not properly adjusting the ECU to compensate. The engine ran super rich and idle was rough but did not stall, it even drove. I didn't have any smoke whatsoever but when I removed my spark plugs, they were covered in black carbon build-up. I eventually adjusted injector size in the ECU and the engine ran much better.

LearningCurve

09-06-2018, 03:29 PM

Just another thought. Did somebody forget the valve seals?
Bob

Valve seals were installed. You can see them in a few of the photos in the link below.

Head Rebuild:
https://goo.gl/photos/4jbtGCtmVfJ4QGFm6

Jim Haar

09-11-2018, 08:00 PM

Any further updates on this ?

LearningCurve

09-14-2018, 11:42 AM

Any further updates on this ?

Nothing yet. I was out of town last weekend so I didn't get a chance to work on it. I did get the leak test kit and will be giving it a shot this weekend.

Brad Smith

09-14-2018, 03:55 PM

Umm, about your valve seals...installing them on the guide then pushing the valve through them is NOT the preferred method of installation. They are ridiculously delicate and tear easily. Every set of seals I've seen comes with a small plastic "straw" that has one end rounded over. The valve should be in the guide, you put the straw on the valve stem, then slide the seal down onto the guide.

Pull your intake off and look in the ports. If there's oil pooling, your seals got torn.

LearningCurve

09-15-2018, 12:59 PM

LearningCurve

09-15-2018, 01:07 PM

So I completed the leak down test and this is what I got. All 4 cylinders had a drop of 8psi or less. And this was again on a cold motor. I included some photos of the spark plugs as a pulled them out and also after cleaning them. The dirty ones did have what looks like oil on them.

From the leak test I don't think it is a head gasket issue but I am open to other interpretations. If it were the valve stem seals leaking oil into the chamber, wouldn't the leak test show a greater drop in pressure?

Leak Down Test
https://photos.app.goo.gl/hHhXgBiRZWz4VvSF7

LearningCurve

09-15-2018, 02:37 PM

How’s the air oil separator plumbed and oil level possibly pumping oil to the AOS if too full. Pull off and Look into any vacuum line going into the intake manifold as Bob says, introducing oil into the intake.
If all those hoses are clean going into the intake, the issue would most likely be something in the head,since compression is in line. Funny thing is all cylinders plugs are showing signs
Open the oil fill cap while running, be careful. My engine would suck/blow at the oil filler cap as engine running. But no oil came out just puffs of air.
Rich condition would be black smoke but no oily smoot out of the turbo. I believe the engine would flood out before you saw the juice out the exhaust. It would run rough until it stalls.
What does the smoke smell like? Sweet will be coolant. If it smells like a old lawn mower or mini bike it’s oil.
If you. Do a cooling system pressure test does it hold pressure? If not coolants entering combustion chamber. Hope fully some thing here helps you out!

I don't have any aftermarket AOS installed yet. The vents from the heads still run to the turbo inlet hose and that is all dry. All of the vacuum lines running to the intake manifold are dry as well. The one that was most suspect to me was the PVC valve. That runs to the turbo inlet hose and to the intake manifold. Hose to the intake manifold looked clean. I removed the hose from the PVC valve to the manifold and ran the engine for a few minutes just to see if the PVC valve would spit out any oil. I didn't see any. Again the amount of oil on the turbo exit is very excessive.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/F2rt6GmeuLsePspGA

I also opened up the oil filler cap while running the engine. I don't see any smoke coming out and it has a suck/blow action.

The smoke does not smell like coolant so I think it is now safe to say that it is oil so I don't think doing a cooling system pressure check is needed.

One last thing to note, I am using the crank case vent as it is designed for the 2.5 short block. I had the 2.0L valve covers modified to allow the crank case to vent to the valve covers.

Bob_n_Cincy

09-15-2018, 02:50 PM

If it were the valve stem seals leaking oil into the chamber, wouldn't the leak test show a greater drop in pressure?[/url]

No, The intake "valve stem seals" seals between the gases/oil in the valve cover and the intake manifold air (vacuum or boost).

The exhaust "valve stem seals" seals between the gases/oil in the valve cover and the exhaust manifold gases.

Neither of these seals affect the pressure in the combustion chamber.

turbomacncheese

09-15-2018, 10:24 PM

No, The intake "valve stem seals" seals between the gases/oil in the valve cover and the intake manifold air (vacuum or boost).

The exhaust "valve stem seals" seals between the gases/oil in the valve cover and the exhaust manifold gases.

Neither of these seals affect the pressure in the combustion chamber.

This. The only things keeping pressure in the cylinder are the exhaust valves, intake valves, and rings.

Brad Smith

09-17-2018, 08:37 AM

But it does seem to rule out your rings as a possible cause for burning oil. Excessive or misaligned gaps would show up in a leakdown. I'm betting solid money your seals got torn.

If you have a borescope, go down the intake with that and look for pooled oil behind the valves. If no borescope, pull the intake or drop the exhaust and look in the ports. Intake seals are usually responsible for most, as they resist vacuum in the intake stream. Exhausts will leak less, but still some when exhaust pulses hit negative pressure.

Sorry, but I don't know if it's possible to replace these in-vehicle.
*CORRECTION* You SHOULD be able to do these in vehicle using that oh-so-slick looking tool in the one photo. (Has a blue sticker that says 23 on it, but I can't make out the website-share please?) Just pull the spark plug for the cylinder you're doing and connect your leakage tester with a good high pressure through it...the air will keep the valves in place while you swap the seals. (and use the straw)

LearningCurve

09-24-2018, 11:56 AM

I ran an endoscope down the intake manifold and snapped some photos and videos of the valves. When the valves are opened, you can definitely see a ring of oil on the sealing surface of the valve and the head. When the valve closes and the piston starts its compression stroke, you can see the bubbles passing through the oil at the contact point of the valve and the head. Looking closely at the photos, I think I can see oil pooled up in the crevasses just prior to the valve opening in the head. There is also a photo of the piston that I took by entering through the spark plug hole. I think I can even see oil pooled up in the indentation in the piston.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/4Egffi8mkwANswf76

Looks like I will be figuring out the best way to replace the valve stem seals. I may try this without removing the motor or the heads but I know it will be a pain. It might just be easier to pull the motor so that I have more space to work on it.

LearningCurve

09-24-2018, 11:59 AM

Sorry, but I don't know if it's possible to replace these in-vehicle.
*CORRECTION* You SHOULD be able to do these in vehicle using that oh-so-slick looking tool in the one photo. (Has a blue sticker that says 23 on it, but I can't make out the website-share please?) Just pull the spark plug for the cylinder you're doing and connect your leakage tester with a good high pressure through it...the air will keep the valves in place while you swap the seals. (and use the straw)

The tool to remove the valve and spring from the head I got from Company 23. They have several unique tools for the EJ engines.

http://www.company23.com/512

Brad Smith

09-24-2018, 01:26 PM

Ookaaayy, this sucks, but pull the engine, pull the heads. Your leaking seals are, in the big picture, a blessing. Allow me to take you to the bright side...

In your first video (25 seconds) watch closely as the valve closes...you can see it move LATERALLY...that's not good. That guide has an issue, I would not ignore that. Compare it to the others...straight linear motion.

Your leaking seals may have actually saved you an engine.

And thanks for the link, I'll need one of those.

LearningCurve

12-01-2018, 06:07 PM

First off... thank you Brad for noticing that lateral movement of the valve. I must have watched that video a dozen times and never noticed it.

I took a few months away from the project and tried to take my mind off of the inevitable task of having to pull the motor out and rebuild it again. I also took the opportunity (now that the 818 could move out of the garage under its own power) to work on some of my other cars that were in need of some maintenance before winter hits.

So, back to the issues at hand. As for the burning oil, all of the checks I have performed point to something other than a head gasket or leaking turbo. And from the oil seen in the intake at that valve, it seems that it is coming from the valve stem seals leaking oil through the head and into the cylinder. What bothers me the most about this theory is that this would mean that I would have had to have damaged at least one intake valve steam seal per cylinder (since I can tell that all 4 cylinders are burning oil). I am no expert at rebuilding heads but I would have hopped to have gotten it right on at least one pair of intake valves.

As for the lateral movement on the valve, I have a theory for that as well and am looking for some advice from the group. I checked the other intake valve on the same head and found it has the same lateral movement. All valves on the opposite head are fine. The head that is showing this issue was a head I purchased off of Ebay that had bent valves. I am guessing from a timing belt breakage. Regardless, the head was cleaned, decked, and rebuilt will all new parts (valves, seals, ect). What I am thinking happened is that when the valves bent, this may have also bent the valve stem guides. This is the only thing that I can think of that would enable the valves to have any lateral movement. Thoughts?

As for trying to replaced the valve stem guides, I am not finding much on the internet about that and what I do find is not very promising. So if that is the issue, I may have to get a new head.

Last weekend I pulled the motor out. It took me about 6 hours. This weekend I started tearing the motor down. As I go through this process I still don't see anything the conflicts with my prior findings but am still baffled that all cylinders are burning oil which would mean most (if not all) the valve stem seals are bad. The only place I found oil that I did not expect it was right at the intake side of the turbo. The oil I found is burnt. Since the hot side of the turbo is clean I am guessing that it is coming from the exhaust side of the turbo since that is covered in burnt oil. I don't know the internals of the turbo that well so I am not sure if it is even possible for oil to cross over like that.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/kYe3wM5pns24FV1t6

NetWRX

12-02-2018, 09:55 PM

Grab the shaft of the turbo at the center of the fan and wiggle it left to right. If it moves the seals are shot. It should slide in and out very slightly but not move left or right.

All factory turbos have a journal bearing, its like a bronze bushing. The journal bearing has a small amount of oil pumped through it to lubricate the shaft. Normally the shaft fits tight and the oil stays in the center of the journal, but if the journal becomes worn it comes out the sides where the shaft exits. It could come out either or both sides and could account for all the oil on top of your up pipe flange.

All Subaru forced induction motors burn a little oil through the PCV system so black baked on oil looking combustion chambers are pretty normal.

This would not explain the oil on the back of your valves while your intake and inter cooler are dry, but its worth checking.

Brad Smith

12-04-2018, 04:34 PM

First off... thank you Brad for noticing that lateral movement of the valve.
As for the lateral movement on the valve, I have a theory for that as well and am looking for some advice from the group. I checked the other intake valve on the same head and found it has the same lateral movement. All valves on the opposite head are fine. The head that is showing this issue was a head I purchased off of Ebay that had bent valves. I am guessing from a timing belt breakage. Regardless, the head was cleaned, decked, and rebuilt will all new parts (valves, seals, ect). What I am thinking happened is that when the valves bent, this may have also bent the valve stem guides. This is the only thing that I can think of that would enable the valves to have any lateral movement. Thoughts?

Glad to help. I showed it to the other techs in the shop and everyone went "Oooooo!" when the valve seated. Your thoughts on causality are right on the money. I would have figured they replaced them when rebuilding the head, but apparently not. New guides should get you GTG.

LearningCurve

07-07-2019, 03:43 PM

It has been a while since I last posted so I will quickly try to cover what has happened over the last 6 months and try to hit the highlights as well as a few lows. After pulling the engine and only finding the suspicious valve guides as the possible cause of the burning oil, I felt I had no choice but to do a complete rebuild of everything including a fresh hone of the cylinders just to be sure I didn't put this thing back together and run into the same problem. I took the heads and short block to a professional engine builder and discussed the situation I was having. They stripped down the short block, completed a hone and rebuilt the heads with new valve guides. From that point, I cleaned everything thoroughly and rebuilt the engine from the short block up. This is where I think I found my original mistake. As I was reassembling the pistons, I found that the oil scrapper ring on two of the pistons was upside down. I must have just zoned out when I as first assembling them and didn't check to ensure I was installing them in the correct orientation. A very costly and time consuming mistake. Lesson learned....

https://photos.app.goo.gl/5jFwuTTtk72PqtMA7

Good news is that after the rebuild the engine is running smoothly with no burning oil and thus far, no leaks.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/orHKPR7f27B4tBMj6

LearningCurve

07-07-2019, 04:18 PM

Recently I have been working on the headlights and tail lights. The tail lights and reverse lights were straight forward. I got those working with no issues. The headlights, turn signals, and clearance lights gave me a bit of trouble. For the headlights, it is just a single bulb for the low beam and high beam. The high beams are controlled via a shutter that is built into the headlamp. I remember reading somewhere that others had to wire in a relay to keep the headlight on while the high beams was on. I didn't have to do that as my wiring allowed me to keep the low beam on at the same time the high beam was on. The front turn signals were not to bad to figure out but what through me for a loop was that my hazards were not working. This took me a while to figure out but ended up just being a blow fuse. Also took the opportunity to wire in the new turn/hazard relay for the LED lights. Now everything blinks at a normal rate. The one thing I have noticed with the clearance lights is that they don't light up if the car is not running. I have not tried when the car is running but I am only guessing that the ~11.5V from just the battery is not enough to turn them on. I was able to fire them up with two 9 volt batteries wired in series so I know they work.

As of today I have started mounting the headlights onto the body. I am going the route of making the headlights removable so I am countersinking and sealing the bolts into the fiberglass around the edge. Thus far this looks like it is going to work out well.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/fbkWCpDuMYhF2SP1A

LearningCurve

08-09-2019, 11:59 AM

I started mounting the body panels and making the cuts for the mesh vents. I am struggling with the mesh for the hoot vents. There is no vent trim piece included in my kit and FFR no longer makes them. I will have to come up with a better way to hide my inability to cut a straight line in the fiberglass. Otherwise, the rest of the body panels have gone on smoothly.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/y4zgXvbVVH1HyoTk9

Bob_n_Cincy

08-09-2019, 02:24 PM

STiPWRD

08-09-2019, 03:33 PM

I'm pretty sure I have those hood vent trim pieces, they're yours if you want them.

LearningCurve

08-12-2019, 06:24 PM

Why don't they make them. Every kit still needs them.
Bob

I agree with you. Just sounds like this is not something they are providing with the kits anymore.

LearningCurve

10-30-2019, 01:54 PM

I temporarily gave up on the vents and hood mesh and started working on the doors and fenders. Also installed a Boig muffled exhaust.

Door alignment has been a huge pain and while they are not rubbing and the gaps are ok, I am still not happy with them and they will probably need more adjusting. What I did notice while installing the door latch is that my frame does not have a mounting point for the door latch to bolt to. The manual shows the door latch being bolted to this mounting point through the fiberglass. This is shown in the manual but I don't have these mounting points on my frame. I doubt this is an oversight so I am guessing that there was a design change. I don't have confirmation of that though. What concerns me here is that there is nothing holding the door in place if there is a side collision. The latch for the door is only attached to the fiberglass body panel and that's it. A side impact would tear that latch right out of the fiberglass. I included a couple of older pictures that show that area of the frame and the lack of a latch mounting point to the frame.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/6LhtN5wHyCxu9qU96

For the fenders, I went the route of attaching some yoga mat material to the wheel well and then coated with rest of the fender with spray-on undercoating. I used two 15oz cans per fender and it still seems a little thin. I might add another can or two. Otherwise they turned out well-

https://photos.app.goo.gl/jAp2SwFgXinCwMEL6

STiPWRD

10-30-2019, 04:30 PM

LearningCurve

11-04-2019, 03:20 PM

There are brackets that are supposed to attach from the frame to the back of the fiberglass that support the latch. The brackets on the frame are located here:
116913

This step is shown in the manual but it's not very clear:
116914
from pg.417 rev-V

This thread might also help:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?15697-VCP-Door-mounting-Tricks

Thanks for the follow-up on this. I will have to go back and incorporate those brackets. I was thinking that they were already attached to the frame. The manual was not clear on this.

LearningCurve

11-25-2019, 12:45 PM

Started working on the inner door panels. It was a tedious process to ensure that I was cutting into the correct location for the door lock and door handle but after enough measuring I got it right. The door handles and locks work well. Since I am having issues with the locking/unlocking mechanism using the key on the driver side door, I have essentially built a system to lock myself out of the car.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/AictTWZNhrZBybqE9

As for the lock/unlock mechanism using the key, I am unable to get enough rotation on the key to trigger the door to unlock. Part of my issue is with the bracket that attaches to the key mechanism. There is a large portion of that bracket that does not engage with the mechanism until the key is nearly turned all the way. If this engagement area was larger I might be able to get enough rotation on the bracket to unlock the car. If anyone has any ideas or has a solution to this, please let me know.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/9QPXrAztC9Yd4D2k6

LearningCurve

12-10-2019, 12:49 PM

I ended up giving up on the getting the key to work on the driver side door lock/unlock mechanism. As far as I am concerned, this was another poor design from FFR. Since I kept the electric actuators from the donor car, went ahead and bought an aftermarket key-less entry module and wired in the actuators from the donor. This looks like it will work out nicely. I also wired in a buzzer and the turn signal lights into the key-less module so now it operates just like an OEM unit with the flashes and beeps. I will still need to come up with a backup mechanism to be able to get into the car just in case the remote unlocking mechanism fails in someway. I have also started installing the power windows.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/RChjy7fWpkhLrRcw7

I did run into an issue with one of my switchback LED turn signal/reverse lights failing. The white LEDs for the reverse would no longer come on. I tried locating a replacement bulb on amazon, but what I found is that the securing pins on the shaft of the bulb that came with the kit are both at the bottom (mirror image) of the shaft. I think this design is typically just for an 1156 part number. The 1156 part does not come in switch back form. Only the 1157 part with offset securing pins (one high and one low) come in the switch back form. So right now I had to force the 1157 bulb in the socket in order to get it to fit. Something is not right about this. I can't figure out where the switchback 1156 LEDs came from.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/wECAmgdjhuUrhTUP9

AZPete

12-11-2019, 10:03 AM

For a manual unlock, I just ran a thin cable from the drivers door lock to the back of the left front wheel well with a loop to pull.

I also searched for a replacement LED bulb for the backup/blinker lights and finally called FFR and they sent one.

lsfourwheeler

12-11-2019, 05:30 PM

Which keyless system did you go with? I was looking at getting the basic $60 Viper system for mine. There are lots of generic ones around but I had doubts about their support and longevity

Ajzride

12-17-2019, 12:09 AM

I'm happy with this one so far

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B011HNUUSA/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

AZPete

12-17-2019, 11:30 AM

I used a cheaper ($18.78) remote locking kit from Amazon, but there are many other options on Amazon if you search for remote lock. Mine had no security or button-start features but opened and closed the donor door locks:

https://www.amazon.com/Docooler-Central-Locking-Keyless-Controllers/dp/B006QH9C5A/ref=sr_1_9?crid=3AOLSDYZQDVGI&keywords=remote+locking&qid=1576599864&sprefix=remote+locking%2Caps%2C211&sr=8-9

LearningCurve

01-17-2020, 12:59 PM

I have a question for anyone using the hood pins that were supplied with the kit. In some photos of the 818C I can find on the interwebs, there are two sets of hood pins being used to keep the hardtop mounted. One set clearly has a mounting point to the frame halfway down the rear quarter panel. The second sent I see in photos is being used right at the point where the hardtop meets the bumper. I am guessing that those hood pins are being attached to the bracket that was being used to attach the bumper and the rear quarter panel. You can see the brackets (one on each side) I am referring to in the first linked photo. I am not currently using any spacers to attach that bracket. I think the manual makes mention of using spacers for attaching the rear panel when building the 818S. Does anyone have a picture of how they are attaching the hood pin to this bracket? I think spacers would have to be used since without the spacers, it sits too high and there would not be enough room to attach the hood pin.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/MKFyRaPFjfg8AXhW8

Link to John Gamble's 818 photo showing the location of the most rearward hood pin.
https://statics.wheelwell.com/u/52e9f8cb-bbf2-433a-ac15-aebf7105130b.large.jpg?width=900

LearningCurve

03-10-2020, 12:14 PM

I finally got the rear hardtop pins figured out. What the manual does not mention is that the kit provided two ~1.5 inch spacers that I am assuming had to be cut in half in order to get the 4 required spaces for the hood pins. Once I got the spaces cut in half, I felt that the hood pins were still sitting too high and not holding the rear of the hardtop down as much it could so I have ordered longer spacers to enable the hardtop to be pulled down further.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/fPsCaLMMfvZvoRRX8

Mitch Wright

03-11-2020, 08:37 AM

To keep the deck from vibrating you can cut some pieces of 1/2 heater hose to slide over the pins for the deck to rest on.

LearningCurve

03-16-2020, 11:40 AM

To keep the deck from vibrating you can cut some pieces of 1/2 heater hose to slide over the pins for the deck to rest on.

Thanks Mitch. I will keep that in mind if that becomes an issue.

This weekend I finished up the rear hardtop pins with the longer spacers and installed the engine cover latch. I think the manual stated to use a 1.5" hole saw for the latch. To me that looked to be too big. I used a 1.25" hole saw and that worked perfectly. I would be afraid that the 1.5" would have made the hole way to big.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/ppT4tCnFB7X8N1m97

LearningCurve

03-29-2020, 09:58 AM

I installed the engine cover struts using the instructions provided by Mikeb75. I used rivet nuts in the engine cover to secure the hood strut brackets. Since the fiberglass is rather thin in this area of the engine cover, I reinforced the rivet nuts with JBweld epoxy. I also painted and installed the front wind screen that sits under the dash.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/sHxoQnCr9girYnKj8

Gas Strut Install by Mikeb75.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?22037-818C-hatch-strut-instructions

LearningCurve

04-22-2020, 11:47 AM

I started installing some of the additional aluminum the separates the cabin from the engine compartment. I painted everything on the engine compartment side with black undercoating. I also got the glass window installed in the partition.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/wQF8V766a1YYKgb99

I also started working on the windshield wiper. I plan to use the donor motor and go with a single arm wiper setup as I have seen others do as well. I still need to get the windshield installed before I can mount the motor but at this point it is modified for the single arm and ready to install.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/MneKK4FUMsBHxQzQ7

sgarrett

04-22-2020, 03:57 PM

I like the wiper setup. Did you find details for the mods in one of the posts?

sgarrett

04-22-2020, 04:03 PM

Nevermind....I asked too quickly. A search on windshield wipers has previously been unhelpful for me. But I finally figured out how to get the search to show me just the relevant posts! I found what I needed.

Mechie3

04-22-2020, 04:19 PM

Kinda late, but I have some CF hood vent trim rings for the original FFR sized holes. I had them made and then used different vents. If I can find them you can have them if you pay shipping.

lsfourwheeler

04-22-2020, 10:19 PM

This might not be helpful at this point, but I don't think the coupes need that aluminum panel mounted on the firewall. That's for the 818S that has the humps in the bodywork there.

Also, I'm curious how you engine wiring is routed. It looks clean! I have all my wires running over the engine on the cross rails and I've though that it looks a bit busy.

Curious to see how the wiper comes out. I'm using the Forma Cars monowiper kit and I'm quite happy with how they designed it. Could be something to look at even if you're building your own.

LearningCurve

04-24-2020, 11:54 AM

This might not be helpful at this point, but I don't think the coupes need that aluminum panel mounted on the firewall. That's for the 818S that has the humps in the bodywork there.

You could very well be right about that. I had not considered that aluminum being an 818S only part. That does bring up a reoccurring issue I have with the manual. There are many specifics left out on what is to be used with the 818S vs the 818C. And since I appear to have gotten parts for both, I am not always sure what I should be using.

Also, I'm curious how you engine wiring is routed. It looks clean! I have all my wires running over the engine on the cross rails and I've though that it looks a bit busy.

I spent a lot of time routing the wiring and trying to make it look clean as possible. I don't really think I got any good pictures of it completed. I mounted the fuse box just behind the diver's seat and the bulk of the engine wiring enters the engine bay on the passengers side.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/dBKmMIGBfhOhfmKh1

LearningCurve

05-11-2020, 03:31 PM

I have been working on the power windows over the last few weeks. I knew going into this part that it was not going to go smoothly and as expected, it has been a pain. Right off the bat, the weatherstripping provided with the kit was just not going to form to the window frame without a fight and I lost this one. I ended up going with a different type of weatherstripping and even before installing that the window frame edge had to be thinned as it was just too thick to get the weatherstripping to stay in place.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/CNihcFoGgFMcnKMB6

Once I got the power window mechanism installed and the window seated inside the door shell correctly, I carefully planned my cut into the door shell. My original cut was not wide enough as when the window passed through, it was putting a lot of pressure on the outside line. Even after opening it up a bit more, the window is still pressing up against the window pass-through liner. I have not decided if I will just live with it or try to make the pass-through even wider. With the window in the fully up position, there is a gap between the top of the window and the weatherstripping and there is no way that I can see to correct this with any amount of adjustments. Perhaps if the weatherstripping was thinner at the bottom of the frame and thicker at the top, I would be able to get a decent seal. Also, there is no way I can roll up the window with the door closed. The window hits the weatherstripping immediately and if I try to adjust for that, I end up throwing off how well the window seals when it is further up. Now on to the passenger side door to repeat the whole process.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/NnVmLoJqabKDwJCj7

lsfourwheeler

05-14-2020, 10:12 PM

Regarding all the window stuff, you're not alone in your frustrations. However, it should be possible to get the top of the window to sort of seal (I'll admit mine still isn't perfect) and it should also be possible to raise/lower the window with the door closed.

A couple tips I learned:

For the final adjustments you NEED the outside weather strip piece that goes on the window cutout. The pressure it puts on the window makes a big difference in alignment I think some degree of pressure is good, required even perhaps.
I used the rollers to push out on the bottom of the window in the up position so that combined with the weather strip just above them it kinda has a "lever" effect of pushing the top of the window into the car when it's rolled up.
I found that most of the reason I could not get the top rear of the window to fit was that the bottom front was pressed against the weatherstripping too firmly. I had to adjust the whole mechanism and the rollers numerous times to get this fixed.

Another note: My two sides did not really fit the same at all. My driver's side fits slightly better. The passenger side is ok, but it has more drag on the weather stripping when putting the window up with the door closed. This could be chalked up to all kinds of things so I stopped worrying about it...

Ajzride

05-15-2020, 07:16 AM

While reviewing all of the tips and tricks I had bookmarked, I ran across this one from the GTM guys on making the windows seal properly. A good bit of work, but looks like a great solution:

https://www.ffcars.com/threads/window-treatments-gtm-327.415705/

sgarrett

05-15-2020, 02:07 PM

LearningCurve

06-10-2020, 11:47 AM

That GTM window seal was nicely done but a bit more involved that I am willing to take on at this time. I completed the passenger side power window and this one turned out a bit better than the driver side. The window gasket seal is much tighter at the top of the door unlike the driver side.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/NnVmLoJqabKDwJCj7

After a lot of thought and cost analysis, I decided against trying to install AC at this time. The overall cost was going to be over $2k and I just did not feel it was worth it. I may regret this decision later but for now it seemed the most logical. Since I believe a defrost unit is a must for legal reasons, I went with the Vintage Air Gen II Heater and Defrost unit. For the cost, it seems like a very nice unit and I was able to get the plumbing and electrical all installed in a weekend. As mentioned in other threads, using a unit like this require a heater bypass loop to exist so when the valve to the unit is closed, there is still circulation back through the engine. I found a couple of three way connectors that I used to create a bypass loop to accomplish this.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/NDQf7HF1YTcFDsjKA

LearningCurve

08-03-2020, 05:38 PM

lance corsi

08-03-2020, 06:32 PM

STiPWRD

08-04-2020, 07:37 AM

A appears to be a coupe specific piece, I've never seen it before.

Here are a few pics of the front splash guards installed. I had to do some trimming, especially towards the front.
133005133006133007

H is supposed to fill in the gap between the door and engine lid. Yours may be a different since you have the coupe. I had to trim this quite a bit, also riveted on a block off plate to fill the hole where the seat belt would've gone (I'm using harnesses). Outside layer is sound insulation mat.
133008133009133010

FFRWRX

08-04-2020, 09:08 AM

TheHelixx

08-04-2020, 09:17 AM

I am going through the process of installing the remaining aluminum pieces but am finding that what I have does not match what is in the manual that I have. In some cases, the part numbers are not even listed in the manual.
Does anyone have any photos of these aluminum pieces installed? My photos are labeled by the letter shown below.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/LfW7d7U692o6op4V7

B is #80171 and #80173 front wheel inside rear.
C is #81087 front wheel splash guards.
D is #80174 front wheel inside front

Also, I just found out that I have a couple smaller aluminum pieces (E & F) that should have been installed around the firewall and the fuel tank. Pictures or a diagram of that would be much appreciated as well.

This is one of my first posts on the forum. I should have started a build thread a while back but kept procrastinating. I am at about the same point as yourself. Hope it helps..

A- head liner aluminum

B1 and 2- front most trim pieces that attach to the left and right radiator support. They will fit terribly. I am actually going to make new ones rather that cut the front of them down enough to clear the nose and fender. The notch cut out that is to fit up to the hood supports is completely off. I feel like this may have been for the retrofit nose.

C1 and 2- per the previous post they are the front inner splash guards from the frame to the outer fender.

D1 and 2- are the inside rear splash guards that mount to the frame from the inside. They fit right where the brake lines come though (will have to notch them).

E and F- after process of elimination with the inventory, I found these are the fuse block mounts. I didn’t use either of them.

H1 and 2- are suppose to close up the gap from the frame to the body near your shoulders while sitting.

I looked through my phone but don’t have any pix of these to post. I will take some later and add them if someone else doesn’t in the meantime.

Also I guess I should really get a build thread started as I’m a almost a year to the day of taking delivery of 818c #575

Brian

LearningCurve

08-04-2020, 02:25 PM

Hey, Learning Curve I just looked over your pics. I noticed that your window slot in the door shell is cut straight. I curved my slot to match the window curvature. Made a cardboard template of the glass at the point just above the door skin. It worked putty good. Made the slot about 1 1/4” wide. Hth.

@lance corsi - That's not a bad idea. How well did the window liner fit with with curved door shell? Just looking at the manual (2019 revised copy), it does appear they have a slight curve to the liner in one of the photos. I was considering going back and opening up those holes a bit more. Adding a curve might be a better solution.

133025

LearningCurve

08-04-2020, 02:35 PM

I appreciate everyone's feedback on the aluminum panels. FFR sent me a copy of the revised manual and I still don't see mention of those aluminum parts E and F.

I finally have all of the body panels in place with a rough fit. I also started working on the few interior pieces (dash and center console). I would love to have a more dressed up interior but for now I think I just want to get everything functional any maybe get this thing on the road so I can work out the bugs.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/C4MoaLA2xRhw3dpB9

lance corsi

08-04-2020, 04:29 PM

I can’t remember seeing a “window liner” in my kit, but I’m winging most of my build to suit myself anyway.

aquillen

08-04-2020, 06:05 PM

‘A’ is the headliner. It is supposed to be glued up into the roof, but will fall off so don’t use it there. Use it as nice size piece of aluminum for wherever you might need some. I cut it up and used it on the rear of the firewall.

More than one has described the headliner coming down repeatedly with different adhesives. I placed a small aluminum tab at the left and right sides, halfway along each, screwed into the air scoop channels with some sealant. The tabs trap the sides of the headliner of course. I bent an upward curve, pretty significant, into the aluminum "A" piece. I did put a couple "dollups" of urethane sealant in there, but the main thing holding my plate in place is those screws and the bend shape keeps it up there tight. Screws have to tear out for it to come loose. Updated the original image I posted here to show the tabs.

Oh - and there was plenty of room to sandwich in some layers of silver mylar bubble wrap for insulation without adding any weight.

https://res.cloudinary.com/aq007/image/upload/v1596634895/Headliner_version_2_01a_qmagyd.jpg