Help with first start

[lahrs37]

To start with, I have the Ron Francis chassis harness along with the Ron Francis EFI front harness for the 5.0 HO. I can hear the fuel pump working. I heard fuel in the rail. When I pulled a spark plug, no fuel was getting into the cylinder and it was dry. The engine was turning for a while, but never caught. After a short time the battery died. I tried to jump the car, but that didn't work. I am a little unsure about whereto I have a bad battery, alternator, or starter. And then after that I am unsure as to why I wasn't getting any fuel. Any thoughts?

[Walt]

Make sure you have your fuel lines hooked up correctly you reverse them she will not run ,ask me how I know.

[lahrs37]

haha, ok will do!


Make sure you have your fuel lines hooked up correctly you reverse them she will not run ,ask me how I know.

[lahrs37]

Ok, I got it to kick, but my battery ran out. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlosnj1UF6Q

I am charging the jumper pack and will try again tomorrow.

[2bking]

Obviously the battery needs a full charge but the back fire in the exhaust seems to indicate the timing is off. If so, most likely it's 180 degrees out. It's a typical mistake because when the alignment marks on the timing chain and sprocket are aligned, it's the beginning of the intake stroke on cylinder one.

[lahrs37]

If I am reading this right, the way to fix that is to rotate the cam 180 degrees in relation to the crank - right?


Obviously the battery needs a full charge but the back fire in the exhaust seems to indicate the timing is off. If so, most likely it's 180 degrees out. It's a typical mistake because when the alignment marks on the timing chain and sprocket are aligned, it's the beginning of the intake stroke on cylinder one.

[CraigS]

No, 180 out usually refers to the distributor being timed to the incorrect TDC of the crank. IE. the crank tdc fires #1 plug every other crank rotation.

[lahrs37]

No, 180 out usually refers to the distributor being timed to the incorrect TDC of the crank. IE. the crank tdc fires #1 plug every other crank rotation.

That sounds about right. I was doing some research and I realized I never found TDC. I was thinking that I would set the timing with the timing light after it was running. A serious Newbie mistake!
Either way, I am VERY glad I don't need to remove the cam!

[edwardb]

That sounds about right. I was doing some research and I realized I never found TDC. I was thinking that I would set the timing with the timing light after it was running. A serious Newbie mistake!
Either way, I am VERY glad I don't need to remove the cam!

You do need to set the timing once it's running. But it needs to be in the ballpark to begin with. When you're finding TDC for #1, you need to make sure you're on the compression stroke and not the exhaust stroke. Easy enough to do either by watching the rocker arm/valve actions or you can feel the compression with your thumb over the sparkplug hole. Once you're at the right TDC, you should see the timing marks lining up. Then set your distributor rotor to be pointing at #1. Usually that will get you started.

BTW, if your cam was somehow not timed properly to the crank (called degreeing the cam) it's not necessary to actually remove the cam. But it is a pretty major teardown of the water pump and front timing cover and adjusting via the sprocket on the cam and chain linking it to the crank.

[lahrs37]

You do need to set the timing once it's running. But it needs to be in the ballpark to begin with. When you're finding TDC for #1, you need to make sure you're on the compression stroke and not the exhaust stroke. Easy enough to do either by watching the rocker arm/valve actions or you can feel the compression with your thumb over the sparkplug hole. Once you're at the right TDC, you should see the timing marks lining up. Then set your distributor rotor to be pointing at #1. Usually that will get you started.

BTW, if your cam was somehow not timed properly to the crank (called degreeing the cam) it's not necessary to actually remove the cam. But it is a pretty major teardown of the water pump and front timing cover and adjusting via the sprocket on the cam and chain linking it to the crank.

That is super helpful! Thanks! The only question I have at this point is how do you know which way your distributor rotor is facing? Do you take the cap off and physically pioint the rotor at the contact for cylinder 1? (I might have answered my own question there)

[edwardb]

That is super helpful! Thanks! The only question I have at this point is how do you know which way your distributor rotor is facing? Do you take the cap off and physically pioint the rotor at the contact for cylinder 1? (I might have answered my own question there)

Yes. Remove the cap and note the position of the rotor at #1 TDC. SBF's typically have the #1 post at about 11:00 if your plug wires are the typical configuration. Although it's not mandatory for it to be that way.

[Gumball]

You need to make sure that the No.1 cylinder is at TDC, meaning the piston is at the top of it's travel. That's easy to do by pulling the plug from that cylinder and putting your finger on it, then bumping the engine over until you feel pressure in the cylinder. The timing marks on the balancer will also get you close, but will be in the range of 6 - 10 before TDC if set correctly when installed. The problem, though, as pointed out above, is that unless you have the valve cover of and can see the valve actuation, you won't know if you're at TDC on the compression stroke - i.e., when the valves are both closed and the spark is supposed to fire in that cylinder - or if you're TDC on the exhaust stroke - i.e., when the exhaust valve is opened and expelling gasses. If you're rotor is pointing to the No.1 cylinder at TDC (or within 6 - 10 degrees before TDC) on the exhaust stroke, then it's what is referred to as 180 degrees out of phase.

So, make sure you find TDC on the compression stroke and then have the rotor pointing to the cap terminal that has the No.1 spark plug wire. For first start, go with that measurement of 6 - 10 degrees before TDC on the balancer as indicated by the timing mark and you should be good to go.

Best of luck!!!!!

[CraigS]

You have efi, so everything I have read says it does matter how the distributor is oriented. My info says the #1 should be at your 1 oclock as you look at the engine from the front of the car. Google '91 (or whatever year your engine/efi is) mustang distributor position' to get some details. To back up a bit in general. W/ a carb engine, if you are out by 180 degrees, you could just rotate the dist 180 deg. Might run into clearance w/ the vac unit on the dist but otherwise could just rotate it. On an efi engine, the position matters. Also, in reality, this is a colossal pain in the a$$. You will be pulling the dist out of the engine, moving the rotor a little, and sticking it back in. Problem is the oil pump drive shaft has 6 sides and the gear has a different number of teeth. So you stick it back in and it engages the gear, and goes, goes, goes, and stops...... short of fully down because it hit the pump shaft which is not aligned now. So now you rotate the pump shaft a little. Yeah, this can easily take you 20 minutes. Best wishes for a quick alignment.

[lahrs37]

Swing and a miss. I thought I got the timing right, but maybe not. https://youtu.be/s-sOqdlXFLU

Also, I recommend only watching the first 2 minutes or so.

[Railroad]

Although it did sound like turning the distributor was having an effect on the engine trying to run, with the factory harness, you have to remove the spout connector to change the ignition timing. Not for sure, if the coil needs to grounded.

[lahrs37]

So I had another go at it tonight. I tried finding top dead center by feeling for the puff of air. Then I inserted a long skinny screwdriver and turned the engine over by hand until it was at the top it's dwell. I set rotor in the cap to point at the #1 spark plug wire. With a of that (done 3 times over) I still need to rotate the distributor as far clockwise as it can go for it to seem like it might catch. At that position the engine will chug 2 or 3 times, but never catches. My guess at this point is that I messed something when aligning the cam and crank. :( Looks like I will be tearing down the front of my engine this weekend.

[GoDadGo]

1. When you installed the timing chain, did you align the marks on the crank sprocket with the cam sprocket? (Most Have Dots On Both)
2. If you did, then you now need to locate TDC by turning the crank by hand (pull all the plugs to make it easy) and feel for the compression to build as you turn the crank by sticking your finger in the #1 spark plug hole..
3. You may also want to remove the valve cover on that cylinder head so that you can watch your intake and exhaust valves rocker arms to help guide you.
4. The intake will be open on the down stroke of the compression cycle and will be closed on the upstroke.
NOTE: Remember it takes two complete rotations to complete one full cycle since this is a 4 stroke engine.
5. If the exhaust valve opens, then you are on the exhaust stroke so you need to keep turning and watch what the rocker arms are doing because it will really help.
6. Keep turning it by hand until you are on on the compression side of the stroke and you'll feel the pressure build as the piston comes back up to TDC.
7. It should now have pushed your finger out of the #1 spark plug hole while you were turning it.
8. Watch the timing mark on the balancer and stop when your are at ZERO degrees on the pointer/indicator.
9. Reinstall the distributor and you may have to turn the oil pump shaft a little in order to align it with the distributor.
10. It will keep the distributor from seating all the way if you don't get the bottom of the distributor gear aligned with the oil pump drive shaft.

NOTE: You may have to play with it a while to get the rotor aligned with the #1 spark plug terminal, oil pump shaft and distributor in the correct orientation.

https://youtu.be/N2y77vEKorI

Hope This Helps!


Steve

[lahrs37]

1. When you installed the timing chain, did you align the marks on the crank sprocket with the cam sprocket? (Most Have Dots On Both)
2. If you did, then you now need to locate TDC by turning the crank by hand (pull all the plugs to make it easy) and feel for the compression to build as you turn the crank by sticking your finger in the #1 spark plug hole..
3. You may also want to remove the valve cover on that cylinder head so that you can watch your intake and exhaust valves rocker arms to help guide you.
4. The intake will be open on the down stroke of the compression cycle and will be closed closed on the upstroke.
NOTE: Remember it takes two complete rotations to complete one full cycle since this is a 4 stroke engine.
5. If the exhaust valve opens, then you are on the exhaust stroke so you need to keep turning and watch what the rocker arms are doing because it will really help.
6. Keep turning it by hand until you are on on the compression side of the stroke and you'll feel the pressure build as the piston comes back up to TDC.
7. It should now have pushed your finger out of the #1 spark plug hole while you were turning it.
8. Watch the timing mark on the balancer and stop when your are at ZERO degrees on the pointer/indicator.
9. Reinstall the distributor and you may have to turn the oil pump shaft a little in order to align it with the distributor.
10. It will keep the distributor from seating all the way if you don't get the bottom of the distributor gear aligned with the oil pump drive shaft.

NOTE: You may have to play with it a while to get the rotor aligned with the #1 spark plug terminal, oil pump shaft and distributor in the correct orientation.

https://youtu.be/N2y77vEKorI

Hope This Helps!


Steve

That is SUPER helpful. I am going to stop trying to start it until I have some real time this weekend to properly go through that process. For what it's worth, I did get it to catch for about 30 seconds: https://youtu.be/_sYwtkvsep4

[GoDadGo]

C_O_N_G_R_A_T_U_L_A_T_I_O_N_S_!

I think you are really on your way & far ahead of me.
Haven't had much time to swing wrenches since we put the motor in back in September.
Hope to get back to working on it this weekend.

https://youtu.be/3f1Q4aS5SG4

Steve

[edwardb]

Well it was running but doesn't really sound right. Just sticking a screwdriver in the sparkplug hole isn't definitive. You could still be at the top but on the exhaust stroke. On the other hand, if you're not getting a strong push of compression against your thumb either time the piston is at the top, then maybe the cam isn't timed right. I agree with the suggestion to take off the valve cover and watch the valves work as you're turning the engine over. You should be able to see all four strokes and the intake and exhaust valves operating at the right time based on piston position. At that point, you probably want all eight sparkplugs out so you can turn it over by hand more easily with a socket on the harmonic balancer bolt.

So you installed the cam? How did you confirm it was timed properly? Did you use a degree wheel?

[GoDadGo]

So you installed the cam? How did you confirm it was timed properly? Did you use a degree wheel?

Sir Edward Is Spot On So.................

[lahrs37]

Thanks!!!!

Your build looks awesome! I definitely could have used 2 extra hands when I put my engine in. :p




C_O_N_G_R_A_T_U_L_A_T_I_O_N_S_!

I think you are really on your way & far ahead of me.
Haven't had much time to swing wrenches since we put the motor in back in September.
Hope to get back to working on it this weekend.

https://youtu.be/3f1Q4aS5SG4

Steve

[lahrs37]

As I was turning the engine I had my thumb over the #1 spark plug hole. I waited until it was forced off by the pressure. I then inserted the screwdriver and continued cranking until I observed it go all the way up and start to come down. I noted how long the screwdriver stayed at the top of the dwell. I hand cranked the engine over again and when my thumb forced off again I inserted the screwdriver and attempted to stop half way through the dwell.

I will take the spark plugs out, because boy is it not fun to do that. I will also take the valve cover off to confirm I am on the compression stroke. I did NOT observe the timing mark on the harmonic balancer, so I will add that to the mix.

I rebuilt the whole engine. When I was putting on the timing chain on I lined up the dots to the best of my ability. I was pretty sure I had it correctly. I did not use a degree wheel though.




Well it was running but doesn't really sound right. Just sticking a screwdriver in the sparkplug hole isn't definitive. You could still be at the top but on the exhaust stroke. On the other hand, if you're not getting a strong push of compression against your thumb either time the piston is at the top, then maybe the cam isn't timed right. I agree with the suggestion to take off the valve cover and watch the valves work as you're turning the engine over. You should be able to see all four strokes and the intake and exhaust valves operating at the right time based on piston position. At that point, you probably want all eight sparkplugs out so you can turn it over by hand more easily with a socket on the harmonic balancer bolt.

So you installed the cam? How did you confirm it was timed properly? Did you use a degree wheel?

[lahrs37]

Sir Edward Is Spot On So.................

True! I am getting nervous! lol

[Jeff Kleiner]

Sounds like the timing is retarded so get a light on it to see where you're at. I suspect that the TFI module will contact the stat housing preventing you from being able to turn the distributor enough to bring it in so you'll probably need to pull and restab it a tooth over. BTW, the comment earlier regarding the SPOUT is not correct or was misstated; you can move the distributor to change the timing with it in however to do the initial set you pull it---with the SPOUT out the ECU can not vary ignition timing and with it in it will adjust it depending on conditions and sensor information. The timing should be set at 10-12 degrees BTDC with it out. Once it is reinstalled the computer takes control of timing and you'll see it change.

Good luck,
Jeff

[Railroad]

10.4 When setting the ignition timing, be certain to unplug the SPOUT connector
(Page 6, Connector #14) which is located near the TFI module at the distributor.
Loosen the distributor hold-down bolt. Set initial timing to factory setting of 10°
BTDC. Tighten the distributor hold-down bolt, and verify timing is still correct.
Reinstall the SPOUT connector; timing should advance approximately 8-10
degrees at idle.
CAUTION: Be certain to run the vehicle in a well ventilated area.

[GoDadGo]

One concern I have is regarding the camshaft itself.

Is in the old firing order or the newer HO version?

I think the early motors used a 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8 order, but the later HO motors used a 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8 order.

It was a tad problematic when used with the Ford TPI set up since the firing orders were different.

Sorry, but this was something that I ran across way back in the day with some of Fox Body Ford Friends.

[GSides9]

Building an engine is no easy task. I'm with Jeff on this one too. The timing sounds retarded. It runs so you have spark and fuel in the cylinders. It ran smoothly so your firing order matches the cam. Take the time to watch a video on setting initial timing and then reinstall your distributor. It would still be possible that the balancer has slipped. If that happened, a timing light would indicate the timing is correct but the engine is still lazy.

Take your time, Glen

[lahrs37]

Sounds like the timing is retarded so get a light on it to see where you're at. I suspect that the TFI module will contact the stat housing preventing you from being able to turn the distributor enough to bring it in so you'll probably need to pull and restab it a tooth over. BTW, the comment earlier regarding the SPOUT is not correct or was misstated; you can move the distributor to change the timing with it in however to do the initial set you pull it---with the SPOUT out the ECU can not vary ignition timing and with it in it will adjust it depending on conditions and sensor information. The timing should be set at 10-12 degrees BTDC with it out. Once it is reinstalled the computer takes control of timing and you'll see it change.

Good luck,
Jeff

OK, so to be super clear, after I determine TDC, and while the distributor is out, I disconnect the SPOUT. I set the rotor in the distributor to point at #1 spark plug wire. I make sure the mark on the balancer is at 10-12 degrees before TDC. Then insert the distributor, careful not to move anything. Then I start the car. I point the timing light at the balancer, make sure I am indeed at 10-12 before TDC, and then finally reconnect the SPOUT. Is that right?

[lahrs37]

Building an engine is no easy task. I'm with Jeff on this one too. The timing sounds retarded. It runs so you have spark and fuel in the cylinders. It ran smoothly so your firing order matches the cam. Take the time to watch a video on setting initial timing and then reinstall your distributor. It would still be possible that the balancer has slipped. If that happened, a timing light would indicate the timing is correct but the engine is still lazy.

Take your time, Glen

I did not realize the harmonic balancer could slip. Man there are so many dang variables! Thanks for the insight. I will definitely be taking my time on this. There is no hurry. I just want to get it right.

[lahrs37]

One concern I have is regarding the camshaft itself.

Is in the old firing order or the newer HO version?

I think the early motors used a 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8 order, but the later HO motors used a 1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8 order.

It was a tad problematic when used with the Ford TPI set up since the firing orders were different.

Sorry, but this was something that I ran across way back in the day with some of Fox Body Ford Friends.

I got the cam in a package deal that included the heads and intake from LMR. I am not even sure if they sell cams for the earlier 302s.

[edwardb]

I got the cam in a package deal that included the heads and intake from LMR. I am not even sure if they sell cams for the earlier 302s.

Very likely it's the HO firing order. That's the norm with aftermarket cams. I would be quite surprised if you have the old firing order. I'm personally not familiar with what affect this would have, if any, on the Ford EFI. Harmonic balancers shouldn't slip if installed correctly. There should be a Woodruff key (half round looking piece of metal) in the slot between the crank and balancer. Hopefully you installed that when assembling the engine. It insures the balancer is in the right location plus keeps it from slipping.

[lahrs37]

Very likely it's the HO firing order. That's the norm with aftermarket cams. I would be quite surprised if you have the old firing order. I'm personally not familiar with what affect this would have, if any, on the Ford EFI. Harmonic balancers shouldn't slip if installed correctly. There should be a Woodruff key (half round looking piece of metal) in the slot between the crank and balancer. Hopefully you installed that when assembling the engine. It insures the balancer is in the right location plus keeps it from slipping.

Yes, that is definitely there.

[edwardb]

Yes, that is definitely there.

OK, just to cover all the bases, the harmonic balancer can also slip between the inner piece keyed and bolted to the crank and the outer ring. They're connected with an elastic material that can fail. If you used a new balancer or the old one appeared to be in good shape, then I would say the likelihood is low. But full disclosure.

[Gromit]

I think the concern about slippage on a harmonic balancer is between the center hub and the outer ring. in many OEM they are only connected by a rubber ring that can break down over time. or if you put a strap wrench on the outer ring to turn over the motor. then the timing mark that should show TDC is actual not showing it. it is possible to confirm with a piston stop in the #1 spark plug hole. here is a good video small block Chevy sorry. but principal is the same. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RENhHI9n65I

edit got beat to the point looking up the video.

[RickP]

when you installed your camshaft, did you go the extra step to degree it?. Also, when you installed your timing chain, was the motor sitting at TDC on the #1 compression stroke (where you align the timing chain dots)? This step is extremely important. Else the initial timing of the motor could be anywhere which sounds like the symptoms your having.

if you get these two things right, your well within that magic ballpark to have initial timing set and she will turn over provided there is fuel and spark.

[lahrs37]

OK, just to cover all the bases, the harmonic balancer can also slip between the inner piece keyed and bolted to the crank and the outer ring. They're connected with an elastic material that can fail. If you used a new balancer or the old one appeared to be in good shape, then I would say the likelihood is low. But full disclosure.

That is good to know. I ended up replacing the balancer with a new one.

[GoDadGo]

I'm personally not familiar with what affect this would have, if any, on the Ford EFI.

The Multipoint EFI system will pulse out of phase with cam or valve timing and reduce performance since there is a different firing order.

Performance is reduced and an engine can sometimes even pop or back fire since the fuel is sprayed the back side of closed (somewhat hot) intake valve.

Basically the engine squirts the fuel at the correct cylinder numbers 1, 2, 6 & 8, but is out of phase for 3,4,5 & 7.

1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8 / Early Timing
1-3-7-2-6-5-4-8 / Late Timing

[lahrs37]

when you installed your camshaft, did you go the extra step to degree it?. Also, when you installed your timing chain, was the motor sitting at TDC on the #1 compression stroke (where you align the timing chain dots)? This step is extremely important. Else the initial timing of the motor could be anywhere which sounds like the symptoms your having.

if you get these two things right, your well within that magic ballpark to have initial timing set and she will turn over provided there is fuel and spark.

Unfortunately, I did not go the extra step to degree it. That is something I definitely am regretting right now. I was pretty sure I nailed the timing chain. I did a lot reading and watching before putting it on. The #1 piston was definitely all the way up and the dots lined up. I guess its possible that I was on the exhaust stroke and not the compression stroke...

[lahrs37]

I think the concern about slippage on a harmonic balancer is between the center hub and the outer ring. in many OEM they are only connected by a rubber ring that can break down over time. or if you put a strap wrench on the outer ring to turn over the motor. then the timing mark that should show TDC is actual not showing it. it is possible to confirm with a piston stop in the #1 spark plug hole. here is a good video small block Chevy sorry. but principal is the same. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RENhHI9n65I

edit got beat to the point looking up the video.

A piston stop is a really great idea!

[RickP]

Unfortunately, I did not go the extra step to degree it. That is something I definitely am regretting right now. I was pretty sure I nailed the timing chain. I did a lot reading and watching before putting it on. The #1 piston was definitely all the way up and the dots lined up. I guess its possible that I was on the exhaust stroke and not the compression stroke...

You don't have to degree the cam. The reason you want to is to ensure the cam you have matches the cam card that came with the part. If you degree it, and it doesn't fall into spec with the card, you have the wrong cam. It's piece of mind knowing that piece of the puzzle is right.

if you were on the exhaust stroke when you set that chain on, your timing would be 180 degrees out. And yes, it's very possible that it is. Hence your symptoms. If your facing a tear down to ensure the timing chain is aligned properly, go the extra step to degree the cam while your at it. if you don't have a degree wheel, you can use mine. I'm about an hour from you near Pottstown.

[lahrs37]

You don't have to degree the cam. The reason you want to is to ensure the cam you have matches the cam card that came with the part. If you degree it, and it doesn't fall into spec with the card, you have the wrong cam. It's piece of mind knowing that piece of the puzzle is right.

if you were on the exhaust stroke when you set that chain on, your timing would be 180 degrees out. And yes, it's very possible that it is. Hence your symptoms. If your facing a tear down to ensure the timing chain is aligned properly, go the extra step to degree the cam while your at it. if you don't have a degree wheel, you can use mine. I'm about an hour from you near Pottstown.

That is very much appreciated. I am going to try and do the process at least one more time before tearing down. I went back to the main video I used as I was installing my timing chain and watched it again. I am damn near positive I did it right because I had my computer next to me and kept replaying it while I was installing it. It was the thing I was most freaked out about messing up. Here is the video. If that is right, it really should be in right and I am just being a dumbass with the other stuff.
https://youtu.be/NjalAvBQhVE

[GoDadGo]

I'm with RickP regarding your Cam timing.

If you aligned the dots, and I'd bet you did, you are likely dealing with the "Other Stuff" so good luck & be patient!

These Things Take Time!

[lahrs37]

I'm with RickP regarding your Cam timing.

If you aligned the dots, and I'd bet you did, you are likely dealing with the "Other Stuff" so good luck & be patient!

These Things Take Time!

Thanks Steve! That is a good reminder.

[GSides9]

The cam determines if it is right or 180 degrees out, in reference to the crank. You set that when the dots line up on the timing gears. 2 turns of the crank to 1 turn of the cam. Determine TDC with the compression in #1 spark plug hole. Look at the balancer and set the balancer to 10ish degrees on the timing indicator. Now look at the distributor. #1 wire should be marked on the top of cap. The rotor should be pointed at that spot. If it is not, and it can't turn enough to align them, out it comes. Allow for the turning action of the rotor as the distributor gear engages the cam. Be patient, you'll get it.

Glen

[2bking]

I think a lot of the suggestions miss the point that the engine runs but poorly due to either timing or fuel. I think the initial issue was the timing being 180* out and that was corrected. Obviously the cam installation is not a problem because it runs and runs smoothly. A timing light would make quick work of identifying a timing issue. A shot of ether would help identify a fuel issue.

[Gromit]

I agree with 2bking most likely no need to go back inside to look at cam timing. But verifying that the timing mark on the balancer is showing true TDC is important. I've seen miss matched / different year parts not match up to show the correct TDC. It's not that hard to make a piston stop and verify that the timing line is showing true top dead center... once that is confirmed then a timing light is all you need to verify timing on a running engine.

[Jeff Kleiner]

I think a lot of the suggestions miss the point that the engine runs but poorly due to either timing or fuel. I think the initial issue was the timing being 180* out and that was corrected. Obviously the cam installation is not a problem because it runs and runs smoothly. A timing light would make quick work of identifying a timing issue. A shot of ether would help identify a fuel issue.
Thanks King for agreeing with what I said about 25 posts ago ;)

Lahrs,
Get a light on the darn thing. I'm betting that it'll run well with the ignition timing where it belongs.

Good luck,
Jeff

[GoDadGo]

Thanks King for agreeing with what I said about 25 posts ago ;)

Lahrs,
Get a light on the darn thing. I'm betting that it'll run well with the ignition timing where it belongs.

Good luck,
Jeff

What He Said!

Sorry Jeff,

I Just Had To!

Steve

[lahrs37]

So tonight went back at it armed with all of the good info from the forum. I determined that TDC was lining up with the mark on the balancer. I marked 10 BTDC and hand cranked it until I got it spot on that. I marked my distributer and then accounted for the twist of the rotor as the gears meshed. I got pointed dead at the #1 spark plug wire. I then disconnected the SPOUT connector and WALA it turned over and stayed on! I raced to get my timing light on it only to find out that my light was no longer working. :( Since I am still in the garage I turned off the car and took a moment to admire my work. I then went to turn it on again and ... nothing! lol I probably need to jump the battery again. But at this point i am starting to get sick and figured it was good to walk away with a win. Thanks everyone! It looks like I am well on my way. I am going to focus on some other parts of the build to prepare for a go-kart and to start it outside next time!
Cheers!

[GoDadGo]

Yea!Yea!
Yea!Yea!Yea!

[Boydster]

snip... The #1 piston was definitely all the way up and the dots lined up. I guess its possible that I was on the exhaust stroke and not the compression stroke...

If #1 is all the way up and the dots are spot on, then you're OK. Degreeing is really a way to 2x check that you have the right parts and they are made the way they are supposed to be made.

[frankb]

Lahrs...When you installed the timing set, did the crank sprocket have more than one keyway (slot in the sprocket's ID for the key in the crankshaft)? Unless you purchased a high-dollar "performance timing set," I suspect that there is only one keyway and you needn't worry about degreeing the cam as long as you lined the marks up when installing the timing set (chain and sprockets). When installing the timing set, there is no such thing as "compression stroke", only piston position (TDC). Now, if there is more than one keyway in your crank sprocket, as long as you used the timing mark that corresponds with the keyway you used, the cam timing will be close enough to operate the engine correctly. You should refer to the documentation provided with your timing set to be sure. From the video that you posted, it sounds to me like a spark timing issue, not a cam timing issue... BTW, you can check the cam position without disassembling the front half of the engine. You only need to remove the balancer to install a degree wheel on the crankshaft nose and remove the LHS valve cover to access the rockers on #1 cylinder. Use a piston stop to find exact TDC.

Frank B

[RickP]

That is very much appreciated. I am going to try and do the process at least one more time before tearing down. I went back to the main video I used as I was installing my timing chain and watched it again. I am damn near positive I did it right because I had my computer next to me and kept replaying it while I was installing it. It was the thing I was most freaked out about messing up. Here is the video. If that is right, it really should be in right and I am just being a dumbass with the other stuff.
https://youtu.be/NjalAvBQhVE


She's ALIVE! Big step and congrats. Sounds like some fine tuning at this point will get you down the highway. If she ran once, she will run again....

Regarding the video. Wouldn't be fair to comment on it other than, "yes, that's how you install a timing chain". To comment on it would not be wise as we don't know the history of the motor or what led the builder to that point of timing chain install.

In the end, sounds like you are in good shape.

[lahrs37]

OK, so it turns out I had a bad Idle Air Control valve - a common issue with Fox Bodies. Here is the proof.
I can reliably turn the key now!

https://youtu.be/ZcQbsxeyBms

[GoDadGo]

Congratulations!

[Vette1972]

Good job buddy! Something simple for you. Keep at it you doing great. Len

[CraigS]

Dang idle valves have been a pain on Fords and on a lot of other brands for a long time. Glad you have it going now. Good work!

[lahrs37]

OK, so here is a little update to my ongoing starting issues. After what I thought was a successful first start I started going through the checklist of what was needed for a first go-kart. My logic was that I would put off setting the timing until I could at least move the car out of the garage so as not to kill myself or my neighbor with carbon monoxide.
On a snowy day I started it up and it stalled again. Weird, I thought I had fixed that. After a few more times it started and i rolled it out under it's own power. As I went to get a timing light, it died. Ugh. My driveway, such as it is, is on a slight decline. The car was effectively stuck. After 4 hours I was able to round up 3 people to help push her back into the garage - now covered in 3 inches of snow.
Now I can't get her to turn over at all. As I was reading stuff online, I came across something that said that the fuel pump should prime and then turn off after 30 seconds or so. My fuel pump never turns off. I searched that issue with Foxbodies and ran across multiple threads indicating that the computer might be bad. I pulled the computer and opened it up. There is nothing visually wrong that I can tell. But because pretty much EVERYTHING from the old engine has been bad I am going to replace it anyways - the seal was already broken on it so someone was in there before. I have also read about bad fuel pump relays, but that is in old cars. I have a new Ron Francis harness, so that shouldn't be the problem...
I have heard the car run, so the timing is in the ballpark. That in of itself is a big relief. I have replaced the IAC, cleaned the MAF and tested the TPS. There are not many more things that can be wrong! lol

[wareaglescott]

I feel for you. I am also fighting a nagging problem and having trouble getting it resolved. Keep at it. You will get it figured out and have that thing running like a champ soon!

[lahrs37]

I feel for you. I am also fighting a nagging problem and having trouble getting it resolved. Keep at it. You will get it figured out and have that thing running like a champ soon!

Thanks for the encouraging words. :)

[Joee]

Sent you a pm