A friend just ordered a Gen 3 Coupe

[Jim1855]

Way cool, I get to help build a coupe and it doesn’t cost me anything. This’ll be like going to build school and being able to enjoy the ride. Delivery in May, by his choice.

This will be a street car with HPDE track events planned but not formal racing. No rules, anything goes! This is my favorite part.

The initial configuration follows most of what’s been listed by Karen, John and Eric. Thanks all.

Complete Kit, non-donor Not the “R” chassis.
Aluminum 427w, good cam, good parts. Stacked EFI or carb TBD. Should hit 550hp or a bit more.
IRS, non-pin drive
FFR/Wilwood brake upgrades
Koni, double adjustable shocks
Sway bars F/R
Tubular lower front control arms
Torsen T2 diff and we’ll change to 3.31 or 3.55 gears
T-56 Magnum with 2.66 1st .62 6th This will be used as a 4-speed on the track.
Custom headers to fit AFR 220 heads. Not sure about sidepipes.
Competition seats.
AC/Heat
Wheels and tires are TBD but 18” front w/ 275s and 19” rears w/335-345s are possibilities.
Other order form options were selected.


So, we have a few questions. He’s not registered here, may at some time. I’ve been assisting with the configuration and might as well keep things moving. Besides I’m really excited about this build.

Radiator & fan - Is the unit as supplied sufficient for 550-600hp? The plan is for an aluminum 427w. We’ll have shrouding on the front and then around the fan. There will be an oil cooler and thermostat installed.

Power steering - Suggestions for a rack & pump. Again, Windsor based engine. Suggestions that provide good feel and feedback?

Brakes - The upgrade FFR/Wilwoods look good but then the set that John George has shown for his new build are real interesting. We’re looking at options. Are the 12.88 Wilwoods sufficient for the track?

Are the Koni double adjustable shocks worth the money? FFR doesn’t offer any info on either set of shocks. It’s hard to evaluate w/o information.

Are the optional competition seats the Kirkey Intermediate Road Race seats?

What is the new coupe expected to weigh w/o concern for NASA/SCCA class specifications? The plan is to add as much “lightness” as possible for a comfortable street car. It will have AC/Heat and carpet.

Any comments offered are appreciated and will help “tune” the configuration.

We've been reading about the other builds and there is a great supply of knowledge here, we really appreciate it and hopefully will be able to offer something in return.

Thanks,

Jim
Grand Rapids, MI
A Superformance owner but plotting and planning for my own FFR coupe.

[CraigS]

Unless you are looking at the DA konis w/ two dials at about $900 each, the 3012(?) are a great shock but require at least a partial removal from the car to adjust bump. which means you won't experiment much. I would look at alternatives.

[Jim1855]

Just a little movement.

A Ford aluminum 351z block is on order. Will be 427c.i. when finished. Considering Eagle crank & H-beam rods, Mahle pistons at about 10.5:1, AFR 220 heads, and more goodies. Looking for 1-7/8" headers that match the heads and 3" bolt spacing.

We've been exploring options for shocks. Mark @ Breeze has provided info on the QA1 line. Good product and pricing. I have some familiarity with these as I have them on my Superformance. Sure would like to hear from others with a comparison to the double adjustable Konis.

Happy New Year. This is going to be a fun one.

Jim

[vnmsss]

Very cool Jim! My kit should be ready for pickup in the next few days. Will send along any ideas or significant changes to the plan as we move along. Best wishes on your build, and welcome to the FFR Coupe community!!!

Karen

[Jim Schenck]

Craig,

The 3012s are being phased out by Koni and the new shocks are the 8212s which are externally adjustable for both compression and rebound. These are the same ones that came with the 20th Anniversary cars and were developed to not just adjust stiffer but also extend the range to softer for a better ride for people running 18 inch wheels (or 20s on the Hot Rods)

[GoDadGo]

Just a little movement.

A Ford aluminum 351z block is on order. Will be 427c.i. when finished. Considering Eagle crank & H-beam rods, Mahle pistons at about 10.5:1, AFR 220 heads, and more goodies. Looking for 1-7/8" headers that match the heads and 3" bolt spacing.

We've been exploring options for shocks. Mark @ Breeze has provided info on the QA1 line. Good product and pricing. I have some familiarity with these as I have them on my Superformance. Sure would like to hear from others with a comparison to the double adjustable Konis.

Happy New Year. This is going to be a fun one.

Jim

Jim,

I've got the Eagle set up with the H-Beam rods, forged crank & Mahle pistons in my 383 SBC.

My Motor Mentor & Machinist (Mr. Boyd Breaux) recommended the upgrade because of the lack of weight of the MK-4 and operation range. (2,300-6,500 RPM) Side clearance on the rods needed to be addressed along with the rod shoulders and the block required some rail clearance work too.

At 427 CID that car will be a tire shredding road rocket!

Steve

[Jim1855]

Thanks all. Replies greatly appreciated.

Karen, We've met at London the last two years and talked coupes, I have a Superformance. Your input is appreciated and I've looked at your earlier builds for the chassis upgrades. I'm cheering for your racing success, John's too. BTW, I'm just a tour guide and along for the ride. Daryl's doing the heavy lifting with his checkbook.

Jim S, thank you for the shock info. Daryl has ordered the Koni upgrade, the questions are just to sort out the options and make educated decisions.

GoDadGo. We are meeting with the engine builder next week. Eagle components have been recommended and I have them in my SBF aluminum RDI block 427; I haven't broken those parts yet. The big engine question is what cam will work well with the IR EFI system like the Borla.

Comments on this combination would be greatly appreciated. We're treading into unknown territory with the cam specs and induction.

http://www.airflowresearch.com/220cc-sbf-competition-cylinder-head/

http://www.lunatipower.com/Product.aspx?id=1671&gid=289 p/n 20350713

https://www.borlainduction.com/200102-v8-kit-ford-351w-35mm-air-horn.html

I think we'll have a pretty good handle on the build by the time the car arrives April/May.

Watching the current builds sure helps.

Jim

[GoDadGo]

Thanks all. Replies greatly appreciated.


GoDadGo. We are meeting with the engine builder next week. Eagle components have been recommended and I have them in my SBF aluminum RDI block 427; I haven't broken those parts yet. The big engine question is what cam will work well with the IR EFI system like the Borla.

Jim

Sorry, but this Chevy guy can't help you with Cam & EFI selection.
I've steered clear of EFI since my build is a very basic one, just a little different than most.
Good luck and I'm sure you will find some expert input from the Ford Folks.
Maybe Mike Forte, Gordon Levy or Jeff Kleiner Can Help?

Steve

[Mark Dougherty]

Sounds mean as heck
Johns brakes are for future endurance racing
Also
There is no way I would use a t56
To heavy tooo slow shifting
Harder to change if there is an issue
I would use a 600RR

[Jim1855]

Everyone's build starts differently. Daryl ordered a Ford 351Z aluminum block, it arrived at the engine builder last week. Will be a 427W 4.125 bore X 4.000 stroke. The block weighs 109# as shown. Eagle crank and H beam rods with Mahle pistons. Cam, heads & lifters are still being evaluated but the selection is down to a catalog Lunati cam or a custom grind, Morel or Crane hydraulic lifters and then AFR 205 or 220 heads with T&D shaft rockers. The Borla stacked injection is the current plan.

Working on ECU selection. Certainly open to suggestions.

This is way more fun than working for a living.

Jim

6267562676

[Jim1855]

Got word on Friday that the short block was completed. Cam is degreed. AFR 220 heads with upgrades are ordered but will take a month or so, T&D shaft rockers will be ordered shortly. Still many decisions and parts to source.

Jim

[turbonut48]

Ive been reading the Electric Powersteering is the way to go. People have been adapting the 2002-2007 Saturn Vue unit. There" s a control unit for sale on Ebay .
Those big tires are going to be a Motherxxxxxx to turn at low speeds.
Check the other Cobra Kit sites for ideas and instructions about the steering.

I get quite a workout with only 17's.

Tom H Turbonut48

[CraigS]

Jim, that is good news on the 8212 Koni. Thank you for the info. But at $460-$550 each-wow!

[Jim1855]

Not much to report but things are moving forward, just collecting parts.

The short block is home. Received the Crane hydraulic roller lifters, T&D shaft rockers are here, heads ordered.

Looking at oil pans, not sure what will fit as it looks like there are diagonal braces from the base of the engine mount pedestals going forward that may interfere with a front sump pan like the Canton 15-680s. Might have to cut something.

More to come as it happens.

Jim

[Jim1855]

Not much changing but the heads are here. Not fully assembled, just a test fit with the T&D Shaft Rockers. Valve springs are slightly smaller diameter but supposed to be good to 7,500 w/ .600+ lift hydraulic roller.

Sure are pretty.

639046390563906

[11markgibson]

Looking forward to seeing how the Gen 3 coupes come together.

[Planecrazy1976]

Hey Jim, Like the specs on the build. As your query on heads check out Gas N performance. (Gas-n.com) I have those exact heads going on my 427w in my MK4 roadster. I talk to George and he got with his engineers and the came up with a new flange that fits those heads perfectly, he also was making at my request and 1 7/8 pipe all the way from the flange to the collector. If you have not seen these pipe and headers in person, holy cow are they hot. Also side note they have been doing all the headers for COPA Camaro's for a few years. They know there stuff. Good luck

Greg

[Jim1855]

Greg,

Thank you for the info. We've looked at the Gas-N pipes but obviously there's something new. To have a good match to the heads and then 1-7/8" tubes is what is wanted. I've run 2" tubes and then switched to 1-7/8 with a similar motor except AFR 225 heads and a 780 HP carb. The 2's really sang after 6,500 but for overall driving the smaller tubes were better.

This really helps and simplifies the build.

Jim

[Jim1855]

Exhaust update, we're back to a custom design & build.

Gas-N Performance
Spoke to Georgie at Gas-N Performance. Nice guy, helpful but no plans for anything to fit the Coupe. He could build a custom set but distance makes this difficult.

Stainless Headers
Spoke to Chris. Very helpful. They now only offer the individual parts and pieces. He recommended GP Headers for custom builds and the mock-up kits. His initial recommendation was for 2" primaries and this might be a good plan. I mentioned my experience with 2 & 1-7/8 he didn't disagree; can do either size. Multiple collectors & double collectors like those seen on the new Coyote headers with the OX bung are available, this might be a good idea with the plan for EFI. They expect to have flanges to fit the AFR 220 heads and the 3" bolt spacing.

He also offered their oval tube, slightly less internal volume than a round tube but larger than independent smaller pairs. They have and build custom oval mufflers. This might be the solution to both noise levels and performance. I don't think both can be had with a muffled smaller diameter pair.

GP Headers
Spoke to Kevin. Good guy, very willing to help. Their build kit is the adjustable joints that fit to PVC pipe. Starting with a flange then adding the pieces to develop the full system. They can work with 1-7/8 or 2" tube, SS, double or single collectors. The sidepipes seemed to cause him some concern, does me too.

My basic analysis will come later, lots to consider and a few more people to talk to. I wish we had more good photos of a Windsor engine in a Gen 3 chassis with a mockup of the body holes and sidepipe depressions. Can anyone help? Photos & measurements would sure be great. Any info on the exhaust system supplied with the Gen 3 Coupes would also be greatly appreciated.

Jim - soon to be a Coupe builder in training

[Jim1855]

The coupe is here. Delivered by Jerry of Stewart Transportation. All went well, took about an hour to unload to storing the car and boxes in the garage.

Christmas in May.

This is the "street" version. The engine is assembled except for the stacked EFI.

Now the work and fun starts.

Jim

[David Williamson]

Jim this may help you out on the exhaust system. The Gen 3 coupe has the same headers as the Roadster. So if you are using the coupe side pipes the roadster headers from Gas-N will work
I have Gen 3 coupe #16, mine will have a Levy Dart 363 in it.
David W