Coyote install update...more strange issues..now the driveshaft..diagnosis confirmed

[oldguy668]

So I spent 3 hours tonight trying to get the engine into the chassis. drop it 1/8", push it 1/8", try to tilt it 1/4 degree, repeat, repeat, repeat. I have it firmly stuck about 7/8 of the way in and I decided to knock off for the night. I have a couple of hints for anyone attempting this feat. First, don't install the alternator because it hits the steering shaft. The Champ pan will be okay, but it hits the right motor mount on the way down. Might be a good idea to leave it off, too. Find a better way to suspend the engine than those big old lifting lugs that Ford provides. They are at diagonal corners so any time the trans is on an attempt at leveling the assembly will result in the engine tilting sideways quite a bit. I'd grab it by the two top bellhousing bolts and the front of the engine. I'll try to get it unstuck tomorrow.

Anyway, while I was cruising around with my flashlight looking for interferences, I noticed a large round hole in the part of the engine where the bellhousing bolts on, but it's on the opposite side from the starter. It's about 2 inches in diameter and you can see the back of the block plate through it. If anyone tells me it should have been blocked off before I mounted the trans, the next sound you hear will be a .38 slug entering my right ear.

[JGPierce]

Sounds like the engine is a bear to get in. I agree that those lifting lugs are pretty much useless. They torque the engine around. Would have been nice to have 4, not 2, holes.

My 2010 4.6L 3V has the same large hole on the driver's side. It's got a fitted plastic cap stuck in it. Haven't figured out what it's for, but we don't need it.

John

[oldguy668]

Plastic cap? I don't have no stinkin' plastic cap! I got a big hole. Tell me the cap is on from the outside.

[JGPierce]

My cap is a snug fit from front to back. It's more decoration than anything else.

[Jim Schenck]

That hole is to access the torque converter bolts on an auto trans, the plug should pop in from the outside so you can get to those bolts with the trans bolted to the engine.

[Hankl]

Joe,

Could you use one of those load levers to make the install easier?

Hank :cool:

[oldguy668]

Hank, I have one. The problem is that the engine has lifting lugs on diagonal corners. As you try to tilt the *** end up, it also leans to the right. The lugs are placed to balance the engine without the trans in place. Add that 100 or so pounds and everything goes out of whack.

Jim, thanks for the info. I just put my gun away.

[oldguy668]

So, I took a 24 hour break and the sucker just fell in. Apparently, one must still cut the tunnel brace to utilize the mid shifter position, so that's on the list. I also noticed that the trans mount does not reach the multi-hole plate. It's short by about an inch. I have to make an adapter plate for that, and I might make it a little longer so I can move the engine forward about 1/2", just so it won't be hitting hard on the left footbox. If anyone has installed this beast with the footbox aluminum in place, I'd like to know if you experienced the same interference. Everything else fits fine. The dipstick is accessible, the alternator clears the steering shaft, and the pan is above the frame tubes (thanks Richard Oben and Champ Pans).

One thing I noticed is that the upper radiator hose, which I bought from Ford because of the funky fitting, will practically fall on the radiator by itself. It might need a little twist to make it perfect, but right now it's close enough.

[Adrian1281]

Got any pics?

[oldguy668]

I have pics but I have to find some time to upload them and post.

[Someday I Suppose]

Joe glad to hear it dropped in after the deep breath. Are you dropping it in alone?

_Scott

[oldguy668]

Yep, just like always. I don't ever want to have to take it out.

[Someday I Suppose]

Your a mad man!!!! Glad you got it in place

[oldguy668]

I don't mind working alone. I think the first 2000 or 3000 times I had sex, I was alone.

[JGPierce]

Ha! Good reply.

Love to see pix with the engine in and the upper radiator hose.

[Someday I Suppose]

Joe I hear you, 90% of my build has been alone, its nice having time to think, but I needed a support group for putting in the engine ;-)

[oldguy668]

Okay, so i mentioned that the trans mount didn't quite reach the FFR mounting plate. Short by about an inch. 4.6 motor mounts are not reversible, so it's not that, and the 5.0 and 4.6 blocks are the same length from motor mount to bellhousing, so it's not that. I also checked my 3550 trans and it's the same length, bellhousing to mount as the later trans, so it's not that. Also, my driveshaft looks to be about 2" short of ideal. So, I noticed that the motor mount has two sets of holes. The forward set is slotted (what I used) and the rear set are just holes. Was I supposed to use the rear set of holes? David and Richard please check in.....

[oldguy668]

I checked the driveshaft and it's the wrong one for my configuration. That solves that issue, but I'm still baffled about the trans mount being out of place.

[Wayne Presley]

Well here's what you have to look forward to, 2012 mustang with muffler change, everything else is stock...

http://i213.photobucket.com/albums/cc175/vcpinjectionpb/2012mustang.jpg

[Olli]

That is awesome power! That engine likes to rev too!


Hurry up and get that thing running Joe!

Olli

[oldguy668]

Olli or Wayne, do you have any suggestions about the trans mount missing the landing zone by 1.25"? Is this a common problem with 4.6s? I made a plate that bolts between the trans and the mount, but that has introduced a cantilever load on the trans mounting ears.

[oldguy668]

Okay, I learned a very important lesson today. No matter how many thousands of dollars worth of tools one has (at least $15,000), and no matter how many helpers one has (two, one sober), and no matter how much time one devotes to the task (4 hours over two days), a 31 spline driveshaft won't fit on a 28 spline output shaft. Point taken.

On the up side, Brian at FFR was super helpful getting things sorted out and a new driveshaft is on the way. This was not FFRs screwup either, it was mine all the way. Nobody guessed that I'b be using a 15 year old transmission behind a high tech motor.

[Scott7644]

Joe - thanks for the entertainment. It cheared up my day.

I am NOT laughing at you - I am laughing with you...

[Someday I Suppose]

Joe, good to hear you got the drive shaft sorted out, Brian is a good guy for sure. Any thoughts on the trans mounting plate?

[oldguy668]

Soooo, to continue the story, I got another 31 spline driveshaft which means I now have two of them to ship back. The 28 spline arrived today, but now it will not go on more than 1". I gave it a few taps with the hammer and it moved a little but became really hard to turn, so I decided not to do that anymore. Any ideas?

[Wayne Presley]

Soooo, to continue the story, I got another 31 spline driveshaft which means I now have two of them to ship back. The 28 spline arrived today, but now it will not go on more than 1". I gave it a few taps with the hammer and it moved a little but became really hard to turn, so I decided not to do that anymore. Any ideas?

Are you sure it's not a 27 spline???? Seriously, the 03-04 cobras came with a 27 spline output shaft...

[oldguy668]

It slides in easily for about 1" then tightens right up. I counted the splines on the rubber plug that came out and it's 28 for sure. My trans is a NOS 3550 which is 28 and I finally got a 28 from FFR, but the OD of the yoke measures 1.5005 to 1.501. My understanding is it is supposed to be 1.495. I don't have the heart to call FFR and ask for another one. This is the fourth in three weeks.

[Wayne Presley]

It slides in easily for about 1" then tightens right up. I counted the splines on the rubber plug that came out and it's 28 for sure. My trans is a NOS 3550 which is 28 and I finally got a 28 from FFR, but the OD of the yoke measures 1.5005 to 1.501. My understanding is it is supposed to be 1.495. I don't have the heart to call FFR and ask for another one. This is the fourth in three weeks.

I have all three sizes at the shop so I'll measure them

[ClemsonS197]

So did you figure out the motor mounts, or are you leaving them as you have them?

[Richard Oben]

Joe I am laughing at you! You know I am kidding!

On the drive shaft we used the TKO 600 and the shaft from FFR went right in, the second one the first was too short.

On the old 3550s there was a rubber plug that had to be removed if I remember correctly. It was in place to protect the bushing that goes around the drive shaft. I think it can be removed or driven further in, but check with Tremec to be sure. HTH, Richard.

[Mustang Man]

I counted the splines on the rubber plug that came out and it's 28 for sure.

Sounds to me like he already has the rubber plug out Richard... :p

Unless he got lucky and got two of them in there! LOL

Mark

[oldguy668]

The plug is out and I can probe into the back along the splines, for a good 4 inches, so all is clear in there. The yoke slides in about an inch, just past the seal and then locks up tight and the shaft gets very hard to turn. I'm leaning more and more towards an out-of-spec yoke.

[Mustang Man]

You sure it's not trapped air? Does it feel like a bind, or does it have a little "spring" to it. Most yokes have a hole in the end to let air escape...

Mark

[oldguy668]

Mark, if I give it a few taps with a rubber mallet, it goes in another 1/8" but then I can't turn the shaft easily. Plus, it takes fair amount of hammering to get it back out. I'm going to separate the yoke from the ujoint to make it easier to diagnose. Sumthin' ain't right.

[Mustang Man]

That certainly sounds like a bind and not air. I'd pull the rear seal off and double check the output shaft bushing is the right ID, not dislodged or damaged, etc. and compare to the OD of the yoke.

It sounds like the yoke or the bushing has a taper and they are binding up the deeper you go...

Mark

[oldguy668]

Looks like I'll have to pull the seal and bushing. I hope I can do it with the unit in the car. The trans tunnel is open so I can at least work right side up.

[oldguy668]

Okay, got the seal out and disassembled the u-joint. The yoke slides on to the shaft about 3/4" and hits something hard. What's in there, a bushing or a bearing? I know the shaft is about .005 too big, so shall I attempt to take a little off?

[snakeboost]

there is a bushing after the seal then empty space or the rubber shipping seal then the speedo drive gear. i know you said new old stock but it sounds like a twisted output shaft

[oldguy668]

Nope, it's the end of the yoke hitting the bushing. It's just enough to get started, but it won't go in beyond the first 1/4" of bushing. If I drive it in, it binds up. The plan is to take .005" off the yoke diameter and see what happens. Mine measures 1.501 and it should be 1.495. I hate it when this crap happens.

[oldguy668]

Okay, here's the scoop. I miked the yoke and found it had a slight taper, fatter at the transmission end, by about 3 thousandths. I took enough off to remove the "bulge", getting it to around 1.497 for the full length. So now it fits, but the whole exercise just proves that the Chinese can't make precision stuff day after day.

[Mustang Man]

Glad you figured it out Joe. Onward and upward right? :)

[oldguy668]

If every 25 minute job takes 4 days, I should have the car done right about when my kids take my license away.....