Fuel Cell in the Front

[turbomacncheese]

I saw a picture of an 818R with a fuel cell up front between the wheels (I think it was Bob_n_Cincy). What are the pros/cons of doing this in a street car? I'd really like to claim the space behind the seats.

[Scargo]

Reduced capacity, better weight distribution, huge increase in risk of fire if you had a front-end impact. Personally, I would not consider it. Perhaps, with a smallish, custom, race approved fuel cell.

[turbomacncheese]

Yeah, I'm mostly concerned about fire, just not sure if I was being paranoid. Thanks.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

I saw a picture of an 818R with a fuel cell up front between the wheels (I think it was Bob_n_Cincy). What are the pros/cons of doing this in a street car? I'd really like to claim the space behind the seats.


Reduced capacity, better weight distribution, huge increase in risk of fire if you had a front-end impact. Personally, I would not consider it. Perhaps, with a smallish, custom, race approved fuel cell.


Yeah, I'm mostly concerned about fire, just not sure if I was being paranoid. Thanks.

wash: I added a heavy steel bumper 18" in front of my front tank to protect it in a frontal crash.
Pro: 14" x 19" tank is less susceptible to full starvation than 40" ffr tank.
Pro: 6'3" 300# people fit comfortably in car with front tank.
Pro: Front Gas tank is not near hot headers.
Con: Longer fuel and return lines to front of car.
wash: my 14 gal front tank is around the same size as FFR tank. (not sure on the ffr tank)
con: FFR tank is closer to CG of car, doesn't effect handling full or empty.
Pro: Holley makes a Hydramat to fit my front tank.

Sorry if I'm biased.
I really had no choice as we could not fit in the car with the FFR Tank.
Bob

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=59500&d=1475979656

[turbomacncheese]

That does look pretty sweet

[Blwalker105]

Drove a VW Beetle with 10 gallons right in front of my knees and a questionable front crashworthy structure for 10 years. Still here laughing about it.

I also opted for the increased interior room associated with moving the tank to the front.

[Scargo]

Drove a VW Beetle with 10 gallons right in front of my knees and a questionable front crashworthy structure for 10 years. Still here laughing about it...
I had a VW and a Porsche catch on fire in the rear. Not sure if that makes either of us smart; only lucky. I've been unlucky and accidentally set myself on fire while working on a car. That's not one I look back on and laugh about. It's all perspective and odds. I'm pretty cautious around gas.
I'm not fond of the squareish stock FFR gas tank or where it's located.

[lance corsi]

I've opted for the front tank setup too. If you think about it, you're basically sitting on the fuel tank if you keep the FFR setup. My tank capacity is around 13 gal and resides within the wheelbase. Boyd welding uses .12 thick aluminum for their tanks and they build scratch-free tanks, something I've never been able to do! Aluminium seems to scratch by itself.

[turbomacncheese]

I keep going back and forth on this one. Fortunately, I haven't ordered anything yet.

[FFRSpec72]

I've opted for the front tank setup too. If you think about it, you're basically sitting on the fuel tank if you keep the FFR setup. My tank capacity is around 13 gal and resides within the wheelbase. Boyd welding uses .12 thick aluminum for their tanks and they build scratch-free tanks, something I've never been able to do! Aluminium seems to scratch by itself.

So if you have an R the safest place for the fuel cell is in the cockpit since it is with in the structural roll cage, if put up front it's out the cage and much less safe no matter how you look at it

[turbomacncheese]

The supports that Bob welded in look pretty stout.

[FFRSpec72]

The supports that Bob welded in look pretty stout.

Its not in the roll cage, I would not trust it for wheel to wheel racing

[turbomacncheese]

I don't race, and I haven't seen any video of Bob going wheel-to-wheel. But I see your point.

[Scargo]

Its not in the roll cage, I would not trust it for wheel to wheel racing I hit Armco at a 45° angle at 110 and buckled the firewall on my STi. The car was totalled. I'm just surmising that a square tank with welded seams and no bladder might well have ruptured. Not punctured, mind you, but a 90° weld cracked or broken. There's a reason most steel tanks are bulbous.
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I doubt that any tanks like FFR or Boyd go through any destructive testing or certification process. A bladder inside changes the game.

[turbomacncheese]

Have you seen any that would fit behind the seat? They all look mostly cuboid from what I've seen. So legit fuel cell up front vs FFR tank behind the seats....? Is that your point?

[Scargo]

My point is I'm concerned about the safety of some tanks. Boyd tanks are not made to meet any standards and I assume FFRs are not either. There are some poly tanks (http://www.tanksinc.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=product/product_id=83/category_id=133/mode=prod/prd83.htm) that I would think would be safer but I've yet to see any that would work behind the seats.
http://www.tanksinc.com/cartimages/prd_83.jpg?img_id=201401071139160
Since I'm racing I will use a certified and approved fuel cell and have it in the passenger area. Sometimes I wished I had an engineering degree so I could make better, educated guesses. The car is light/the core frame is strong. It has that going for it. If it were hit, it might move easily and not absorb much energy. OTOH, if it hit an immovable object things could be far different. Things are packaged tightly. It is not crash tested. There's not much to absorb energy in the rear if rear-ended. I'm doing a lot of thinking outloud, so to speak. Didn't mean to be a Debbie Downer.

[FFRSpec72]

Have you seen any that would fit behind the seat? They all look mostly cuboid from what I've seen. So legit fuel cell up front vs FFR tank behind the seats....? Is that your point?

My fuel cell was designed to fit behind my seat, holds 14 gals, very well made from Harmon Racing Cells, 2 pumps, slosh tank

[UnhipPopano]

In all of the posts in this thread, no one has addressed the Free Surface Effect [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_surface_effect] on lateral weight shift. For racing, both the F5 and Boyd tanks are not the shape you would want as they allow the maximum lateral movement of the fuel.

For road use, the design as it is, is far better than Ford's for the Pinto.

[FFRSpec72]

In all of the posts in this thread, no one has addressed the Free Surface Effect [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_surface_effect] on lateral weight shift. For racing, both the F5 and Boyd tanks are not the shape you would want as they allow the maximum lateral movement of the fuel.

For road use, the design as it is, is far better than Ford's for the Pinto.

This is one reason why my FIA fuel cell has a bladder and foam filled bladder to minimize weight shift and slosh

[turbomacncheese]

My point is I'm concerned about the safety of some tanks. Boyd tanks are not made to meet any standards and I assume FFRs are not either. There are some poly tanks (http://www.tanksinc.com/index.cfm/page/ptype=product/product_id=83/category_id=133/mode=prod/prd83.htm) that I would think would be safer but I've yet to see any that would work behind the seats....Didn't mean to be a Debbie Downer.

I appreciate the out-loud thinking. No reason to think you're being a downer. I was starting to wonder if I was the only one who thought the fuel tank was kind of dinky. I'd rather spend the extra cash on a real fuel cell if I have to be that close to it anyway. Just haven't seen any suitable.


My fuel cell was designed to fit behind my seat, holds 14 gals, very well made from Harmon Racing Cells, 2 pumps, slosh tank

Custom?

[FFRSpec72]

I appreciate the out-loud thinking. No reason to think you're being a downer. I was starting to wonder if I was the only one who thought the fuel tank was kind of dinky. I'd rather spend the extra cash on a real fuel cell if I have to be that close to it anyway. Just haven't seen any suitable.



Custom?

Yes, from Harmon Racing Cells

[turbomacncheese]

Thanks