Racing fatigue ?

[FFRSpec72]

I have a failure this weekend and it took me for a scary ride, the rear pan hard bar mount broke at the passenger side and then broke the diagonal to the driver's side tube. A friend of mine broke his the race before but on the drivers side frame mount, he was just giving rides during the lunch break so not under full power, mine was under full race. Has anyone else seen this ?

59049

[GoDadGo]

WOW, that is some scary stuff.
Never would I have thought that this bracket would have broken, even under racing conditions.
I wonder of John George ever broke one before he moved to the new IRS set up?

[avgjoe]

Ya, Lyle broke his several years ago ('08?) at Grattan and maybe Brian before that (both MKII's I think). Lyle was lazy and only broke one side. I think the new ones from FFR are beefier. Not sure when they started making beefier ones. Your's survived quite a long time if it's one of the old ones.

[GoDadGo]

Ya, Lyle broke his several years ago ('08?) at Grattan and maybe Brian before that (both MKII's I think). Lyle was lazy and only broke one side. I think the new ones from FFR are beefier. Not sure when they started making beefier ones. Your's survived quite a long time if it's one of the old ones.

My kit was delivered in early 2015.
Do you think mine is the stronger piece?

[FFRSpec72]

Ya, Lyle broke his several years ago ('08?) at Grattan and maybe Brian before that (both MKII's I think). Lyle was lazy and only broke one side. I think the new ones from FFR are beefier. Not sure when they started making beefier ones. Your's survived quite a long time if it's one of the old ones.

So mine is a MkII built in 2004 and on the track since then. It looked like it had been cracked for some time and I never nocticed it (being tucked up under the frame), then it completed the break this past weekend.

[Gordon Levy]

I have had a few break over the years.

[AC Bill]

No recall? :confused:

[FFRSpec72]

No recall? :confused:

I asked myself the same thing as I came very close to taking myself and others out during the race with unknown injuries.

[johngeorge]

We have welded those to the frame for added strength, especially the pass side. Mine in the past did 'pull out' from the little the passenger side mount.

[GoDadGo]

Has anybody built a heavier piece that is for sale or are we on our own for this fix?
While I doubt if I'll ever push my car as hard as you guys, I'm not thrilled knowing that this is a common problem.
Please Advise & Thanks!

Steve >> aka: GoDadGo

[FFRSpec72]

Has anybody built a heavier piece that is for sale or are we on our own for this fix?
While I doubt if I'll ever push my car as hard as you guys, I'm not thrilled knowing that this is a common problem.
Please Advise & Thanks!

Steve >> aka: GoDadGo

I believe that on the newer cars the mount is welded to the frame so you don't get the fatigue and you should be just fine, the recommendation I have received is to weld the mount to frame and this will distribute the load.

[avgjoe]

Yes, I believe that the replacement in '08 was the beefier version. Contact J. Schenck for more details but I haven't heard of any one breaking theirs (in the Challenge Series at least) in quite some time.

It's not just "pushing" it hard, it'a also about the sticky tires, stiff suspension and quick transitions; constantly.

As Tony stated they are probably broke in one spot long before it is noticed. On Lyle's the powder coat did a great job of flexing and covering up the crack. The powder coat was not broken but looked funny. After some picking off of the powder coat he found the rusted crack. He felt something "not quite right" and went looking. Now the other side breaking would get your attention. I'm sure.

[FFRSpec72]

Yes, I believe that the replacement in '08 was the beefier version. Contact J. Schenck for more details but I haven't heard of any one breaking theirs (in the Challenge Series at least) in quite some time.

It's not just "pushing" it hard, it'a also about the sticky tires, stiff suspension and quick transitions; constantly.

As Tony stated they are probably broke in one spot long before it is noticed. On Lyle's the powder coat did a great job of flexing and covering up the crack. The powder coat was not broken but looked funny. After some picking off of the powder coat he found the rusted crack. He felt something "not quite right" and went looking. Now the other side breaking would get your attention. I'm sure.

In my case the diagonal to the tube also broke which is essentially the same thing as the other side breaking as the whole bar was free and thus allowed the rear to steer the car

[GoDadGo]

I will be looking to see what can be done to strengthen this piece, even though I'm 99% sure that I'll never push my car has hard as fellows who race them.

Auto Crossing here and a some occasional laps around NOLA Motorsports Race Track likely won't even come near the stresses you guys put on your cars, but I'll see what can be done none the less.

Be Safe Gents!

[Steve Powell]

Tony............not that it's a big deal but mine also broke on the passenger side and not on the drivers side as reported above. Mine did not completely detach. Car started to handle badly so I started looking into why. Found the bar was still hanging on but would allow the rear end to swing side to side and "self steer". Not good but as you mentioned I was giving rides to kids (fund raiser) and only doing maybe 70% speed and not actually racing next to anyone. I added several gussets and an additional bolt. I also check it after each race weekend.

[AC Bill]

So it has also happened to the factory welded ones,or just the bolt on's?

Anyone have pictures of the exact points on the frame, we should be inspecting for fatigue?

[EBarnes]

Any updates on this issue?

[NAZ]

EBarnes, love that profile picture. Hope you have a good supply of Code-V sacks on board.

[Mark Dougherty]

As john has said
We have seen this break under racing conditions also.
Tony12 years racing seems like a good long run.
When we race we do a complete front to back check on stands looking for just such problems.
Regardless if it's a FFR or other race car.
racing finds the limits of such things.
Steve if you pay the shipping I would be happy to upgrade your bracket or any one else's for free.
Same as we have done on other race cars only takes me 30 minutes or so.

[totem]

Unlike the one on the picture in the first post, the current bar mount has a gusset on the passengers side. Seems reliable.

[totem]

Here is a pic.
62512

[FFRSpec72]

Unlike the one on the picture in the first post, the current bar mount has a gusset on the passengers side. Seems reliable.

We also added the gussets when we repaired mine but I would still continue to check this as it is not a fun thing to break going 140 mph

[EBarnes]

As john has said
We have seen this break under racing conditions also.
Tony12 years racing seems like a good long run.
When we race we do a complete front to back check on stands looking for just such problems.
Regardless if it's a FFR or other race car.
racing finds the limits of such things.
Steve if you pay the shipping I would be happy to upgrade your bracket or any one else's for free.
Same as we have done on other race cars only takes me 30 minutes or so.

Let's look at my challenge car when you are here. I think t is Dan Elam's old challenge racer. Bob Kay rebuilt and I bought it from him 4 years ago. I am not sure if he would have upgraded...

2-1/2 weeks!

E~