Stix's Gen 3 Coupe Build - Striped Steel

[q4stix]

Let me introduce my build:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=70913&d=1500742571
As you can see, I've poured lots of money and time (kidding) into an early prototype by ordering a die cast model and wrapping it in 3M brushed steel vinyl.

On a serious note, here's what I have in mind for my build:
Type 65 Coupe Base Kit
Coyote engine
AEM Infinity control
Tremec something (TKO-600, T-56, or TR-6060)
New 2015 IRS
Heat and A/C
Wilwoods at some point

The engine build may start out as a F150 engine just to get started due to funds but I have some lofty goals.
There are other things I have in mind to do to the kit as an overly ambitious engineer, but those things will be revealed in time to keep everyone guessing. My idea is to fully stretch my abilities, learn a lot of new things along the way, and keep the build pretty unique even among the kit car crowd.

[Jacob McCrea]

Welcome; that all sounds like as good a plan as any!

[q4stix]

I posted an updated on the 'other forum' but I know no everyone jumps between the two and I know I'll be asking for advice along the way for anyone willing to offer it.

Although FFR is now offering a deal on wheels and tires which means the 50/50 sale probably isn't going to happen right away, overtime allowed me the funds to get this earlier.

IRS setup from a 2016 Mustang GT with the Performance Package. The seller also had it listed for the price of the base Mustang parts so effectively I got everything for half of what the differential by itself would cost new! At 5k miles, everything is practically new. Add in that I can go-cart with the stock rear brakes and sell them later, and I'm pretty happy with the find.

3.73 Torsen is the first confirmed detail of my build :)
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=70914&d=1500743347

[Gav]

3.7's are a great ratio too!
I had some in my last Cobra, they assisted with tire wear beautifully ;)

[SingleMaltWSKY]

assisted with tire wear beautifully ;)

I'm taking that line -nice.

[q4stix]

Not to "let the coyote out of the bag", but I found an engine!

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=70915&d=1500743348

It's from a 2015 F-150 so it has the newer cast heads, the intake with charge motion, I think the upgraded oil pump gears, and other minor changes. Nearly everything is shared with the 2015 Mustang GT and what isn't can be easily swapped.

Since I found it for so little cost, I expect a few upgraded parts will be showing up for it over the course of my build.

More parts for a kit I don't have yet haha

[q4stix]

Time for another pun: Two heads are better than one!
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=70916&d=1500743349

Since I got the F-150 engine for such a low price, I took advantage of a Black Friday sale and purchased these GT350 heads. I'm still lower than my initial budget of a base 5.0 crate motor, but this should give me a good bump in performance and let me sell the stock heads.

Now to let my bank account take a rest.

[CraigS]

You may find that the stock rear brakes are fine. I am surprised how well they are working for me and mine are not the PP version.

[John Dol]

Q4,

Not being familiar with the new set up, does that whole IRS cradle mount into the frame or do you dismantle that?

Thanks,

John

[q4stix]

@CraigS: I expect that you're correct with the stock brakes being sufficient. I think the performance pack rear brakes are the same as the normal setup with the sliding calipers. I'm pretty sure I'll be doing a 'square' tire setup with the same on all four corners which will shift even more of the demand up front and leave the rears with excess capacity depending on the master cylinder size I use.

@John Dol: The setup you see will be disassembled and used for some of the parts. Salvage yards can remove everything you see with just a couple bolts so they sell it cheaper than the components. I'll sell off or ditch the subframe, springs, shocks, and some of the other stuff and only keep the diff, axles, spindles, hubs, and brakes.

[q4stix]

With the continued help of TMScrogins on ffcars (and at the same time inadvertently pulling him into a headache with CARiD's very poor handling of advertised pricing), I now have a AEM Infinity 710 and Coyote layover harness sourced from JEGS.

I was also able to take delivery of the engine I bought out of state:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=70920&d=1500760899

My best worker has been tireless at the bench figuring things out:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=70921&d=1500760900

I'm now trying to figure out the wiring and how the F150 engine harness compares to the crate motor harness since I know there are extra leads and connectors that exist at the moment. I'm not sure if I'll have to end up buying the crate motor engine harness or what at this point so more time will go into research.

I figure that I'll do my best to understand the wiring and electrical side while I have a complete, working engine and then do the tear down for the mechanical changes.

Also, soon I'll be posting some questions I have with the fuel system since that's all new to me to assemble from scratch.

[q4stix]

Here are some questions I hope one of you can answer regarding the fueling:

1. Does the Gen 3 Coupe still use the 87-93 fuel tank?

2. Is there any preference to a setup where the fuel pump is in the passenger, taller part of the tank vs. a 03+ Cobra style that has it in the thinner, yet centered position since I think the tank size and shape is still nearly identical?

3. Does anyone have experience with the Aeromotive Phantom or Phantom Flex setup? I ask because it seems to be a reasonable compromise to having a sump system. https://www.aeromotiveinc.com/product/phantom-flex/

[CraigS]

Here is another option
https://www.holley.com/products/fuel_systems/hydramat/

[q4stix]

Some updates on the fueling:
1. Factory Five tech responded that they do use the same tank. From researching, most reproduction tanks only say they're good for up to E15 or E20. I need to see what might be needed to ensure E85 is ok in the tanks.
2, 3. Looks like both Trevor on the FFCars forum and CraigS have solutions for cavitation. Aeromotive also sells a A1000 pump in a 03-04 Cobra style tank that can work, but is $$$

Also.... holy bundles of wires! This covers the engine harness and AEM layover.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=70922&d=1500760903

As usual, questions at the end...
The plug on the left of the image is the one from the 2011-2014 Coyote crate motor. The one on the right is from the stock 2015 F150 engine harness. Can anyone verify if the 2015+ crate motor matches the left plug, right plug, or is a third option?
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=70923&d=1500760904

The AEM Infinity harness uses the 2011-2014 harness plug which is how I found out the difference. Ford doesn't seem to have a part number for the 2015+ crate motor harness for some reason (at least I couldn't find it).
I'll need to wire up the intake charge motion actuators somehow and figure out what the power and signal requirements will be to take advantage of them here and if I ever upgrade to the GT350 intake manifold.

[Hankl]

Raise your right hand and say after me,

"I (State your name), do swear/affirm, that upon acceptance of this "Revered Coupe Jacket", will willingly subject myself to all manner of frustration and abrasion that my FFR Type 65 will provide. I further pledge that any and all fellow Coupe builders will have free reign in using the cash available in my wallet as they see fit to improve my build plan. I will not look down upon our fellow Roadster builders, but rather take pity on those not talented enough to build a race car with a roof, So Help Me God!"



It is my pleasure to present you with the "Revered Coupe Jacket", Here's your sign!!

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w284/hankl_album/straight_jacket_backFS-1.jpg

Hankl :cool:

[q4stix]

Thanks for the jacket - my old one was getting really worn out! ;)

[q4stix]

Small update with more questions in hand. I removed the F150 harness that has a different plug setup and extra connections to the auto transmission I don't need and have replaced it with the M-12508-M50 2011-2014 Coyote crate engine harness. This will mean I'll take care of the charge motion stuff at a later time with an output on the Infinity.

I had to move what I believe is a inline capacitor to the passenger side head from the 2015 driver side position, but that was straightforward. There are a couple things I'm unsure of though:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=70924&d=1500760946
#1 should be the oil pressure sensor plug for the Mustang, #3 and #4 are the F150 oil pressure sensor and variable sensor/solenoid for the oil cooler, but....
What does #2 go to?
What sensor is #5 with the orange wire group coming from it?

Also, what is this plug for on the driver side back of the engine for 2011-2014 crates?
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=70925&d=1500760947

Does anyone have a wiring schematic of either the 2011-2014 or 2015+ harnesses? That will keep me from having to ask all these questions here in the hope that someone might know.

Thanks in advance!

[q4stix]

Quick update on what I found for future reference to those looking:
#1 is the oil level sensor plug for the 2011-2014 pans and I assume 2015+ pans. The F150 pans do not appear to have this sensor for some reason.
#2 is the oil pressure sensor plug that is on the GT but not the F150 (see above post)
#3 and #4 can be easily swapped for the Mustang adapter M-6880-M501 that comes with the sensor. Alternatively a remote filter option for the second gen Coyote block.
#5 turns out to be a block heater element and plug. This was a Montana truck which explains why it was installed

I'm still struggling to find what the back plug went to. Anyone able to look at the rear of their 2011-2014 harness and install?

[q4stix]

Fueling fun below. Hopefully it'll give people extra ideas or a reference for later.

Since the kits are designed around the stock 87-93 fuel tanks, I decided that I wanted to start with that and potentially upgrade to a fuel cell if I got into tracking the car, wanted a larger capacity, or had starvation issues. This put me on the path of a Aeromotive Phantom Flex kit install since I also wanted the ability to run E85 and have enough flow for my build should I get bored with a NA motor and wanted to go forced induction.

It seemed almost a shame to cut right into a new tank, but I had to cut a 3-1/4" hole for the pump. This is almost the same size as the outer diameter of the stock fuel sender lock ring which posed a problem using the recommended hole saw. It would 'rock' side to side and then catch so I gave up on it after nicking the tank finish a few times. I drilled a bunch of radial holes and then did a quick pass around with a cutoff tool and here's what I got.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=70927&d=1500761273

You can see the 'sump' in the picture above through the hole, but here's a clear view:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=70928&d=1500761274

Since it was spot welded in place and I didn't think I could get it out even if I drilled out the welds, I worked around it. First, here's what I was trying to fit.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=70929&d=1500761275

You can see that it's really designed for a continuously flat section of the tank but our stock tank is either really shallow or has both the welded sump and an angled section. To get this to fit, I decided to leave out the soft plastic base, bend the hanger to look similar to the stock sending unit, and then cut the foam to conform to the tank bottom and with the sump. This is how everything looked before installing it:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=70930&d=1500761276

An inside view of the foam pressed against the tank bottom and slit to work with the sump
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=70931&d=1500761277

I'm hoping this will be a good compromise between the low cost of the stock tank vs. a fuel cell but take care of any starvation issues, fuel aeration with a return setup, and be able to use in a fuel cell upgrade later on with the soft plastic base without having to re-buy parts of the Phantom Flex kit.
All installed:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=70932&d=1500761278

[q4stix]

After fixing a few leaks with a couple -8AN Summit brand fittings (no leaks with their -6AN fittings though), I got the pressure regulator to hold at 55psi with atmospheric reference

I rigged up some of the connections, added two stubby exhaust pipes to hold the left and right O2 sensors, and hooked up the battery.

In the AEM software, I had the firing order updated for the 2015 F150 instead of the standard configuration 2011+ Mustang GT. It was rather painless once I got to the right menu...and boy are there a lot of menus and tabs. I also dropped the rev limited to 5000 from the 7400 default just to make sure with no rotating mass (flexplate only) it didn't spin too fast.

First start!!!
Well, starting on a pallet but no fuel leaks while running, a stable initial idle, and a pretty good sound all things considered.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oJ0f3PiiSFY

It ran really lean at 17:1 to 18:1 because I had the VVT disabled and the VE tables were off from no intake and no real exhaust, but I'm impressed it ran so well first try and open loop.

Now that the fueling and engine electronics are confirmed working, time to tear down everything and add some 'go fast' parts!

[TomV]

Best of luck with the build, looking good so far

[Gav]

Well done, that's a huge step forwards getting the donk up and running!
Pretty responsive too by the sound of it! :)

[q4stix]

*Internal discussion*
Go forged, it's cool. No, I don't need the expense. What if I boost later? Unlikely. Do you want to rebalance everything or do this twice? Umm....

*clicks purchase*
Oops
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=70933&d=1500761853

I've been in contact with Perpetual Balance near me in Arlington, WA, and once I get my harmonic balancer I'll be ready to go. The owner is incredibly easy to talk with (at least for me as an engineer) and walked me through each step he'll take when I visited a few weeks back. He took just over an hour of his time showing me how to weigh rods, his checklists and weight sheets, the balancers he uses, etc, but wouldn't accept a dime when I offered to compensate him for his time.

I'll try to get pictures of the process which I expect will at least let one cat out of the bag with my build

[q4stix]

The fit check has started and to my relief, the crank doesn't have any interference!
It seems someone squished my coyote crank flat ;)
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=70934&d=1500761855
Coyodoo?

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=70935&d=1500761856
The piston crowns are a little close to the head. Yikes!

[q4stix]

After a long delay of life taking up time and Ford being coy with their balancing information on the GT350 crank, I was finally able to make some more progress.

Phrases like "how did you get that?", "I'll have to talk with upper management", "They're stonewalling us", etc. all came from those I reached out to for information. After a fair amount of persistence, I was finally provided the values I needed for proper balancing. The big secret is that there isn't a real secret but everywhere I've mentioned what I'm doing, I'm called crazy so I guess there isn't a big market for the information. Anyway, now to pictures...

Here the bob weights are already measured and clamped to the crank and we put on the ATI balancer which would be needed to offset some of the flywheel and clutch component weight later on. He already hand balanced all of the pistons and rods (big and small ends) before I arrived to match their weights.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=77664&d=1512958351

This is Mark. Mark is awesome! He runs Perpetual Balance in Arlington, WA and was a huge help telling me what issues we might run into along the way, how to prepare for them, examples of what other people have done (choosing components that affect things later, are too cheap and heavy and require tungsten inserts, dual clutch issues, etc). He's professional, is willing to talk once he know's you're not wasting his time, and was great to work with. I'd HIGHLY recommend him to anyone in the Washington area. On top of that, he let me watch each step, take pictures, and ask things along the way which is not something he would usually do for customers (they just drop stuff off and pick it up once complete). Having said that, he did mention various one-off projects where customers were more involved. Back to the pictures... this is the first drilling to remove weight
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=77665&d=1512958360

Once the crank was balanced individually, we added the flywheel and re-balanced by only modifying the flywheel. Same for adding in the components for the twin disk clutch (minus the friction disks since they rest on the transmission input shaft).
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=77666&d=1512958368

Skipping to the end, you can see Mark cleans as he goes, protects the crank and components by covering the journals while he drills and uses a vacuum, then visual inspects and re-greases the supports before re-measuring. This is the last drill operation after we attached the pressure plate and balanced that. Since there was so little imbalance at the front, he only drilled a single dimple at the end so he didn't go too far early on and have to 'chase' the imbalance later.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=77667&d=1512958375

Here's an example of the outputs from the balance machine. We used an older Italian made machine instead of his newer one for ease of access putting on and taking off components as well as allowing us to weld on the pressure plate while still on the machine. The newer one didn't allow that but ended up giving the same final values. What you see is front and rear imbalance, the angle (out of 100, instead of out of 360 degrees), and the gram*inch imbalance. This particular image was after our third spin with all the components on. It took a small bead of filler metal on the pressure plate, another spin, and the dimple on the front mentioned above followed by a final check spin to be complete from here.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=77668&d=1512958383

All in all, the results were something less than 3.5 gram*inches imbalance on the crank itself when finished and only 1.4 gram*inches front and rear for the entire rotating assembly with flywheel, mid plate for the clutch, and the pressure plate! Considering Nascar aims for under 6 gram*inches, I consider this a win!
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=77669&d=1512958391


Now I have some more Infinity and cam phaser issues to think about and try to resolve, but then it will be on to either the kit order or the engine tear down.

[q4stix]

I just did a thing... :D :cool: :D
http://i1233.photobucket.com/albums/ff398/falconflyer912/Type%2065/01_Kit_Order_and_Parts_Pre-Acquisition/CoupeOrder.jpg

[John Dol]

guess we know which one you chose!

congrats, now its getting real

John

[q4stix]

Well, the first email I received after I ordered did say "Congratulations on your Hot Rod kit order..." which made my heart jump a bit!

The order is for a Gen 3 base kit with IRS, front Wilwoods only, and a few minor options like the GPS gauges. Nothing too crazy with the order itself

[q4stix]

I did a local pickup and delivery before my delivery since I've had a mill on my 'want list' for a while and not just for the car. I was put in contact with a friend of a friend of a coworker and score a really great deal on a Bridgeport aka Mr. B. Portly for my garage. It was an old CNC setup that was surplussed which came with most of the handles and dials to convert it back to a manual mill. The head was recently rebuilt and it has ball-screws on all 3 axes so I can convert it back to NC easily at a later date without that additional expense.

With lots of road construction around, my buddy wanted to put it in the bed of his truck instead of it bouncing around on a trailer so we got a little creative. Nothing like some good ingenuity and mechanical advantage of a high lifting pallet jack :)

Our lifting setup.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=72289&d=1502736466

At the 40"+ height of the bed of the stock height F-350 4x4
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=72290&d=1502736467

On 4x6's to lead into the truck
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=72291&d=1502736468

Delrin rods to roll the pallet which made it fairly easy to move; ratchet straps prevented it from rolling back off or into the front of the bed
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=72292&d=1502736469

All loaded and ready to drive!
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=72293&d=1502736469

Mr. B Portly's new home
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=72294&d=1502736470

The guy selling it was so confused when we didn't show up with a trailer. After, one comment we got was "Holy sketch town Batman!" but the reality was that everything was pretty stable and we didn't have much worry about it falling.

Not bad for $600!!

[q4stix]

With word from Factory Five that my coupe is/was on the ground ready to go on a truck and an email out to Stewart to ask for updated information, I'm nearly positive that Mike Everson's picture taken last week shows my coupe. I only had the cutouts marked so of the three in his pictures, that means the one with the arrow would be mine. Come on delivery date, excitement is building!
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=76054&d=1509322325

[q4stix]

After many, many shipping delays, it's finally here! Woohoo!

Even though I live in a cul-de-sac, the driver was able to make it in, do a 10+ point turn, and back right up to my driveway.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=76734&d=1510595815

As soon as he pulled in it started to rain, but after 30 min or so and by the time he was ready to hoist up the car, the rain stopped. It was time to fly!
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=76735&d=1510595816

The unloading went smoothly and I was happy with the process at my house with Stewart Transport. I can honestly say that I was disappointed with them not conveying how many shipping delays there were and the fact that I had to be the one calling to hear they'd have a truck there the next week only to call two weeks later and get told the same thing. In the end I'd still recommend them, but I wish they would have been more proactive with their communication and telling me info instead of me having to call every two weeks after the stated Sept. 15 pickup date just to get an update. Enough of that...

Now inventory begins and then I can start looking at the changes I already have in mind to measure for feasibility. I'll need pull the body off and figure out where to put it for a while. I'm ready to get started!

[John Dol]

Congrats on the new addition!!

John

[Straversi]

Congratulations. Looking forward to following this build. Can't wait to see what you and Mr. B Portly have in mind.
-Steve

[wareaglescott]

Congrats on the delivery. Look forward to following along.
Did Stewart give any explanation as to what caused the delays? I had a vey positive experience with them and it came really fast but I have seen a few other complaints as of late about the deliveries.

[Paul2STL]

Congratulations on the delivery. Maybe I could see it in person someday, in the mean time I need to get my roadster done by next summer. Hope you are not finished before me.

Paul

[q4stix]

Thanks everyone!

@wareaglescott: I think that's part of the issue, I was never felt I was given a real explanation. It may be one that caused a couple day delay which I can fully expect due to the nature of shipping via truck and the number of kits on each truck, but nothing that could add up to a 45 day delay. I'm hoping this was a one-off occurrence since I've heard so many good things about them, just felt it needed to be mentioned due to the magnitude of the delay.

@Paul2STL: You're welcome to come visit if you can make the trip up to Marysville. I'm sure you will be done loooong before me

[Tuftster]

My car was on the same truck and there were a number of different "reasons" that came up. First was they ended up picking up kits only going to the midwest the week mine was suppose to be picked up (1.5 week delay). Then the truck got stuck in Michigan because they couldn't unload it for some reason (1 week delay). Then the driver got delayed on the east coast due to traffic and some more due to limited hours he was allowed to drive (only gets X many hours per X many days which is understandable). Then during a truck wash his windshield was almost "blown out" and got water all in the cab, that was a Friday and had to wait till Monday to find out they didn't have parts so it was just "temporarily fixed" before heading on his way. Last delay before getting to me was that a drop off scheduled ahead of me the guy was not available (it's hard to be available when you have no idea when you need to be). I only know all of this because I kept calling Stewart. I wish they had been better at communicating so I didn't have to keep calling but I will give credit that each time Jolene at Stewart was very straightforward (as far as I could tell) and friendly.

In the end is was fine, the kit was delivered without any damage and the driver did a great job. If I had to do it again I'd still go with Stewart, I'd just lower my expectations on the expected delivery date.

[q4stix]

Not a whole lot of progress at this point, but inventory is basically complete and I'm not missing anything that will prevent me from getting started.
I've got my donor 2015 Mustang GT performance pack IRS disassembled and I'm following EdwardB's roadster idea to POR-15 and clear coat the cast iron differential:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=77451&d=1512538009

Up next will be the rear spindle modifications required for the IRS and I get to start making the body buck so I can take the body off and remove the aluminum panels.

[q4stix]

... is my two front... wheels driven.

Not saying this is totally a go, but rest assured that I'm looking into seeing what it'll take! :surprise: :grin2:

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=77943&d=1513711580

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=77944&d=1513711581

I've worked suspension design before and I'm confident I can get new A-arms, new spindle integration, and a revised steering setup, but there are things I still need to figure out with confidence before I pull the trigger and start cutting anything. That way I can revert to a usual rear wheel drive if it doesn't work.

Things to figure out: tunnel cutting, seating due to transfer case and front drive shaft encroachment, front differential integration into the frame, new steering rack placement.

Soooo.... Matt's concept center is now open with a new project.

[q4stix]

A little post-Christmas and New Years update:
Since I've been busy with holiday visits and travel, I haven't been able to make as much progress as I would have hoped for, but I was able to squeeze in some work here and there.

First, my paint 'corner' was set up using my engine hoist and some plastic so I could coat the spindles and differential with the Duplicolor Clear Engine Enamel to keep the aluminum from oxidizing again after I cut the lugs per the IRS install instructions and wire brushed the bare metal.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=78985&d=1515622630

Next, I moved my spare engine block into the car with the motor mounts and transmission mockup into the engine bay and tunnel to get a better idea of the placement of the shifter (limited due to the transfer case adapter) and the transfer case itself.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=78986&d=1515622631

You can see below that the transfer case will mount in one of the most inconvenient locations in the cabin - right near my hips and where the base of the seat will go. The idea isn't killed yet (I'm making sure it's resilient) but the picture shows the challenges.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=78987&d=1515622632

Finally, I was able to get the differential mounted myself last night. It took about 2 hours to get everything in place and bolted up, but not too shabby for going back and forth behind, under, and in the car to move things as well as it being the first time I've done this. The jack sometimes did more harm than good, so I'd recommend following the idea of using 4 lift points to get the diff pinion up and forward and then bringing the whole differential above the mount points before working it down into the final position.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=78988&d=1515622633

[q4stix]

Saturday afternoon update:
I duplicated the cardboard cross section of the transfer case and cut down nearly everything but the input shaft center hole and the output side boundary to see what position it would have to be in to line up with the transmission output shaft and differential input flange as well as not hit the seat and go below the frame. The hole the rod is going through is right at 3.5" below the input shaft centerline which means I'll have to raise the engine, transmission, and differential all up by that amount to get everything to work. I checked the intake manifold height and that means I'll need to modify the hood center hump to raise it about .75" (my estimate). Since I thought about making longer A-arms for the rear anyway so I wouldn't have to run such large spacers, a change in the axle lengths due to raising the differential won't be such a large impact. Well, large impact is relative...
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=79259&d=1515884561

I'm also taking a look at how the seating position will have to change from normal. It looks like I'll need to move the base of the seat forward, raised by 2", and tilt it back more. I can compensate with thicker padding towards my knees so I'm not trying to stretch out and rest my feet on the pedals. A removable steering wheel will be a 'must have'
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=79260&d=1515884572

Still more to mock up, but I'm almost back to thinking this is doable :)

[Straversi]

Will this be a manual shift 4 wheel drive or a full time all wheel drive system? I assume the modern all wheel drive systems are computer controlled? Hope this fits. I'd love to see this plan come together.

-Steve

[q4stix]

If I can get it all to work, it'll be full time all wheel drive with a 1:1 ratio only in the transfer case (no high/low since that adds weight, complexity, and size). 6 speed manual for the transmission.
Everything will be mechanical - upgraded viscous in the center and front, Torsen in the rear.

[Jkviper]

Just subscribed, looking forward to your build and the 4wd setup.

[q4stix]

Do you think I voided my warranty?
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=79319&d=1515990632

[Mark Eaton]

Wow. Rock on, Brother, ROCK ON!!!!

[qwezxc12]

Do you think I voided my warranty?
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=79319&d=1515990632

Its... beautiful
79320

[q4stix]

A bit more cutting took place and the transfer case I'm looking at was put in place. Turns out I need to cut a little more of the tunnel. Good think I have a welder for later haha
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=79323&d=1516045176

I'm also looking at a different transfer case to see if I can gain a bit more room back for the seat.
Here's a front to back view:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=79324&d=1516045177

[SingleMaltWSKY]

Big fan of the "hack and modify" approach. Nice work!!

Of course we had to do it just to fit in the Gen 2, you're getting 4wd.

https://i.imgur.com/qvvvNAL.jpg

[Jacob McCrea]

This takes our tradition of modifying everything to a whole other level. Carry on and keep the pictures coming, please!

[forcefed1]

I am sure of two things

There IS NO warranty. and
if there was you toasted it!

I got my coupe about a week before yours arrived. Its sure fun to watch your progress.
Did you make anything with your bridgeport yet?

[q4stix]

Big fan of the "hack and modify" approach. Nice work!!
Of course we had to do it just to fit in the Gen 2, you're getting 4wd.


It'll just be hacking for a while haha
I still have to figure out how to fit myself in too. At 6'2", it's going to be a challenge unless I want the transfer case on my lap!


This takes our tradition of modifying everything to a whole other level. Carry on and keep the pictures coming, please!

Will do! Just don't want to bore people with small, incremental steps since I'm realizing there will be tons of smaller details to figure out.


I am sure of two things

There IS NO warranty. and
if there was you toasted it!

I got my coupe about a week before yours arrived. Its sure fun to watch your progress.
Did you make anything with your bridgeport yet?

I've made a nice 1.5 ton, 9"x40" translating car part shelf LOL
In all seriousness, I bought a phase converter for it (the mill is 3 phase) that I need to hook up and I still need to tear it down and clean up everything before I put it to use. Parts will probably start once I get the transmission, transfer case, and rear differential all in place and I know what I need to do for support cradles, suspension modifications, brake caliper mounts for the front spindles, etc.

[Owlknight360]

I love the AWD idea. What is the theory on power to the front wheels? A transaxle is my assumption.

[q4stix]

Yep. Custom tailhousing adapter from a T56/TR6060 to the transfer case, spline adapter if necessary, long driveshaft to the front, and then an offset front differential. At least trying to make that theory work in reality :)

See post #39 for the layout:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?22141-Stix-s-Gen-3-Coupe-Build-Striped-Steel&p=305730&viewfull=1#post305730

[q4stix]

I wanted to get some measurements for the rear axle angles and things to see what I'd be dealing with from a 'stock' IRS setup and what I may have to do. I put on a wheel and tire from my WRX's summer setup even though I know the wheels I eventually use will be much wider and about 1" larger in diameter.
For the record, I've run gunmetal Advan RS wheels a long time before Factory Five put them on the Coupe R (over 5 years). Just sayin' ;)
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=79634&d=1516685549

Anyway... on to real matters at hand.
It seems the flanges on the frame or the A-arm spacing is off on my car too. I'm not sure if anyone else has it this bad, but for me it's just a small nuisance since I plan to make new A-arms, but I can see it being an issue otherwise. Hopefully this is something Factory Five is working on since I've seen other comments about it recently. I took out the forward bushing to make things fit for the mockup. You can see how far forward the arm is in the clevis:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=79635&d=1516685557

For the axles, I wanted to see the stock angle and the angle they'd be if I ran with the diff raised up to meet the necessary transfer case height.
Here's a picture with roughly a 4" ride height (very slight axle pitch up):
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=79636&d=1516685564

And here's a picture with the wheel moved down to simulate the same ride height but the differential moved to match the transfer case flange (axle pitch down noticeably with the provided axles):
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=79637&d=1516685574
In reality, the upper A-arm was hitting the frame so I couldn't simulate the full angle

So... since I wanted to be wider in the rear anyway, I compared the Factory Five provided axles (bottom) with the stock 2015 Mustang GT axles (top). It's a 5" difference on each side.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=79638&d=1516685582

[q4stix]

In transfer case to differential mounting news, I picked up a 30 spline pinion flange made for U-joints from a 03-04 Cobra that I'm going to see if it fits on the Super 8.8 pinion flange and in the 2015+ IRS case. In hindsight, I should have looked for a 2015+ F-150 pinion flange but I still may have to do that.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=79639&d=1516685591

Here's how I plan to couple the transfer case output flange to the differential. The silver pinion flange will hopefully replace the stock IRS-to-CV-style-driveshaft pinion flange (black) used on the Mustang GT to let me move the transfer case further aft.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=79640&d=1516685600

[nkw8181]

Man that this looking awesome. So unless I missed my guess you are mounting the rear end directly to the transfer case? That what I would guess since my driveshaft is so short.

[q4stix]

My plan is to have no driveshaft to the rear at all. It'll be a solid mount from engine, to transmission, and to the transfer case. The transfer case to differential will be solid through the pinion flanges because the pinions need preload on them and I can't just go spline to spline. I'll probably put in a high durometer rubber coupler on the pinion flanges because the pinion nuts on the transfer case and differential hit before the flange faces meet.
Everything will have to be in a perfectly straight line to make sure I don't fatigue the shafts or wear out the bearings and bushings.

[q4stix]

Some progress and setbacks.

I was able to remove the 2015+ IRS differential pinion flange with the help of the Factory Five provided pinion flange to driveshaft adapter and a ratchet strap to keep it from spinning on my. I followed the instructions pulled from dhuff's Mustang GT repair manual. First I tried to measure the free spin torque of the flange which is under 20 in*lbs and then I removed the nut and flange itself with a puller. Not too difficult, but the procedure Ford uses is to punch the nut and stake it into a recess in the pinion gear. Great for holding it place from spinning, not so great to undo.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=80021&d=1517253945

Next, I tried installing the 03-04 Cobra flange on the new Super 8.8 differential and found it's a no-go from stock part to stock part. Can you see the reason?
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=80022&d=1517253945

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=80023&d=1517253946

Ok, neither could I. After measuring with some calipers, I found the spline diameter is just about .030" smaller on the Cobra flange even though both are 30 spline 8.8" pinion flanges. Dang it!

I put out a request to Nitro Gear and they won't do a Cobra flange with a 2015+ Mustang GT spline even though they have the tooling to do both. I've also got a request in at a local company to see if they can modify the splines. I really would prefer not to have to modify the splines myself.

Any ideas of places I can contact to make the correct splines even if I have to turn my own flange on a lathe? Even better, a company that might be willing to modify the existing splines?

[q4stix]

Well, you know what you say about the internet... you can't believe everything you read!

I realize these last few posts are a sidebar or tangent from the usual build, but what I'm finding is interesting nonetheless. Who knew that so many places list different spline counts for the same differentials? Or that the 2015+ Mustang GT and 2015+ F150 ring and pinions are interchangeable if you don't have any towing package that bumps the axle up to a 9.75" ring and pinion? Or that even truck guys on forums don't know what size differential they actually have because they only think of the number of bolts matters (now some realize that was an easy identifier in the past)?

Anyway, I stopped by a local spline and gear manufacturing business that turns out splines and hobs some Boeing parts. They confirmed that the spline pattern should be a standard 24/48 involute profile which got me thinking. What kept bugging me was that with a given diametrical pitch and pressure angle, you can't just increase the diameter without increasing the spline count. Well, that made me recount the splines on the Mustang GT stock pinion and flange. I thought I mis-counted because I read 30 spline everywhere, but there are 31 splines now!
Long story short, I ordered a 2015+ F150, 31 spline flange that seems to fit both the Super 8.8" and 9.75" differentials. Once that arrives, I can confirm.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=80056&d=1517290648

[q4stix]

More silly transfer case and differential info below. You've been warned.

Good news! The 2015+ F150 flange for the 8.8 and 9.75" diff has the same spline count, same spline diameter and outer diameter (to match the oil seal), and same depth that's inserted. I was able to put the new flange on but didn't tighten it down all the way to get the correct preload. I'm going to pull it back off and check to see if the pinion nut sits at the same height because the white dust shield didn't fully seat when the nut torque started getting high. Worse case I add a washer under the nut to get everything to fully seat.

Even though the new flange pushes back the mating surface by almost 2", the pinion threads and nut stick out to eat up about an inch of that difference. Note to anyone who needs a longer driveshaft due to transmission choices or driveline angle issues and is ok ditching the Factory Five provided flange adapter, this could buy something like 2.5".

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=80560&d=1518032469

I cut the bottom X bracing in the Coupe's frame to drop the transfer case forward output flange right to the bottom of the frame line to get it as far down as possible without hanging down to get hit. With the new flange on the rear differential, I put the seat back in to get an idea of the new position. While not optimal yet, it is noticeably better than before. You can also see how high all of the driveline will sit relative to my seat. This will get reinforced frame members around it for sure so I don't break my hip if anything ever went wrong.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=80561&d=1518032470

The final two pictures show the height difference again but also show that the seat belt bracket for the driver's right side lower tab will need moved or the other flange on the transfer case cut off. My guess is both.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=80562&d=1518032471

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=80563&d=1518032471

Anyone want to sponsor the car so I can fund the transmission purchase in the near future and keep forging on, or get some wide wheels in a square setup, or rear Wilwood brake kit, or other necessary build parts? Pretty please? ;)

[q4stix]

Pretty pictures and charts time (because I don't get enough of that at work haha)

On a topic that can have infinite discussion with no resolution (also an aspect of work at times), I've decided to try to pin down what I want to do with the transmission gear ratios and final drive ratios. I chose a front differential to match the 3.73 of the Mustang GT performance pack to minimize upfront costs and I would like a fairly good spread of ratios, a 1st gear I can crawl in traffic with (Seattle to Everett), and a top gear I can cruise if the highways are open or take a run further away should I actually start traveling again.

I cropped all the captures the same so anyone should be able to save the charts to your computer and tab back and forth to see the changes more easily.

Baseline: 2016 Mustang GT, stock wheels and tires, performance pack
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=80574&d=1518066886

Second: Gen 3 Coupe, T-56/TR-6060, 3.73 rear, with 2.97 1st, .63 6th, square 295/35/18
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=80575&d=1518066897
Not too bad at all. I'm also trying to keep in mind that I want my engine to rev to 8000+

Third: Comparison to my WRX with a 07 STI 6-speed, stock tire size for chart
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=80576&d=1518066908
You can see 4th to 5th is a small change, 60mph already spins the engine at 2200rpm, and at 75mph I sit at 2750rpm.

Search for all available differential gears that match both the Super 8.8 and the 7.562" front differential I'm starting with to keep the size down...4.56:1's are available!
Fourth: Gen 3 Coupe, T-56/TR-6060 with 4.56 rear, 2.97 1st, .63 6th, square 295/35/18
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=80577&d=1518066918
Surprisingly, this is nearly identical to the crank to mph gearing of the STI I'm used to. Crazy, huh?

Finally, fifth: A fun thought should I change out 5th and 6th to .74 and .50 with the 4.56 differentials, square 295/35/18
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=80578&d=1518066933
I can crawl in stop and go traffic, shift similarly to my 390+hp WRX, and still cruise at 60mph like a stock Mustang GT at 1800rpm. Seems like that's full of hypothetical win!

[forcefed1]

You really have some good chunks of time to think this stuff through. Looks like you got quite a few things figured out! Keep at it and by spring you'll be go carting for sure. Especially if you find that sponsor! My next hurtle is making my own driveshaft. I need to research and find a place to weld it up.

FYI if you ever get into making custom splines. WIRE EDM is the process you are looking for. You design the DXF and specify the tolerances and materials. You can supply the blank from your lathe and find a shop that will wire cut the spline in there. I have programmed and run several for years.

[q4stix]

I'm an engineer, I'm paid to over-analyze any design ;)
I did the FSAE car suspension design in college, was hired to work on the CH-47 power transmissions (though was assigned to a special project on my first day), and now I'm working wing mechanisms, so I'm in the same fun field at work and home hobby.

A sponsor would be awesome, I just have to figure out how to find one and then convince them the ideas in my head are worth their money or products. Sooo... until I have a great finished car, I'm guessing I'll be completely self funded haha!

Have you checked out driveshaftshop.com? I expect to contact them about my transfer case to front differential driveshaft since it'll be longer than the average car and custom.

------
In other news, I half convinced myself I need the 4.56 gears. I know the Coupe is going to be lighter than my WRX, but I created a graph of it's current wheel torque vs speed and compared it to the natural aspirated build I'm doing. I can see why the WRX/STI/Evo all feel so fast from the get-go since they're usually not traction limited and the gearing is so low. With my current turbo and tune, it's got a pretty noticeable peak starting from a 5mph roll, but once it gets going, boy does it move quick. The 3.73 gearing of the Coupe, since I also hope not to be traction limited, would be great after 40 but seem slower on the butt-dyno until then just due to the gearing.

Here's the chart, based on wheel torques of my WRX vs. the wheel torque of a stock Mustang GT which I should exceed easily with my tuning, the better heads, non-restrictive exhaust, etc.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=80934&d=1518592524

While waiting on building funds for the transmission, I'll start working on the updated rear suspension design. I'll post as I get that started to be sorted out.

[q4stix]

I realize it's been a long time without an update, but I've also been trying to clear out things in the garage and wrap up other projects at the same time.

I did a spur of the moment search on Craigslist for the tire size I wanted and a set popped up from someone with a drift car who couldn't fit the tires in the wheel wells. Worked out for me, because I got all four 295/40/18 Nitto NT555 G2's for less than the cost of two.
I also made use of eBay's recent pre-spring 20% off code for a purchase from a US company to get some wheels. Turns out one vendor was also having a sale at the same time and the cost of the wheels dropped dramatically with the stacked discounts. Add in that they upgraded to a nicer set when their inventory list had an error and I ended up a happy camper! 18x10.5 ET22, square setup in anticipation of the AWD working out.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=82897&d=1521608088

As a result, this also means that I expect to sell the 18" Halibrand style set I got when I placed my order for the Coupe. With AWD, trying to match front and rear tire diameters with different widths and not being able to rotate them means it's unlikely I'll ever use them. If anyone is interested, let me know or I'll be posting it up in the classified section at some point.

[q4stix]

Figured I was past due for an update. I'm working on a mix of the theoretical and the practical by focusing on the rear suspension changes required to lift the rear differential up to a height that matches the transfer case output flange and have everything above the bottom of the frame.

First up was 'compensating' for the height increase by trying out the Mustang GT axles (which I showed earlier being 5" longer each side). I figured if I'm to re-do some of the suspension that I might as well lower the CV angles and one easy way to do that is widen the rear track. Who said we'd need spacers to get rid of the wheel gap? ;)

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=83473&d=1522734145

This also means I'll get to try out some fiberglass molding again. Weee!
Here's a side view that also includes the front differential I had to open up to verify the internals. For anyone who cares, the Ford Explorer and Ranger in the early 2000's used Dana 35 internals with a Ford requested case. Many places report the smaller Dana 30 only. Anyway, the body will need to be a bit wider when all is done.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=83472&d=1522734145

Finally, I've been contemplating ideas on how to grab all the dimensions I want from the rear spindles as well as possible ones I want to use in the front. After chatting with some coworkers, one strong front runner (that didn't include using a laser scanner or FaroArm which require permission and a business case at work) was to use a center finder combined with a DRO on my mill. Since I don't have a DRO and I wanted to get started right away, a much lower tech solution filled in to get rough dimensions.
Check out my overturned book shelf and a combination square ruler!
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=83474&d=1522735034

I'll pull some dimensions from the existing frame and A-arms to get the nominal caster / camber / effective spring and wheel rates as a baseline and then design new geometry with those in mind. I'm still debating the 'easy' direct coil-over setup or a pushrod and bellcrank design. Hopefully more on that on or before next weekend.

[q4stix]

I made some really good progress doing a few coordinate transformations to get the spindles in the correct locations and match up with the 'baseline' Coupe rear suspension. Everything is at least really close without disassembling all the components to verify individually.

The top is the as-designed-by-Factory-Five layout.
The middle is the wider version using the Mustang GT axles, raising the diff to match the rest of the custom drivetrain, and using the same chassis mounting locations for the a-arms by effectively extending their span. I also assumed using the upper spring mounting location for a bellcrank to make things easier. Easier always being relative...
Bottom is the overlay of the two.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=83569&d=1522819221

Initial findings:
1/2. I have an error on the spindle face location for my setup, it needs pulled inboard some (too wide of track)
1. The axle angle shouldn't be an issue
2. The angles between the a-arms and the axles is going to cause the axle CV's to probably bottom out because as the car compresses in height (bumps, any aero, cornering, etc), the arms and axles are not close to parallel.
3. The upper spring mounting locations may actually work well for a good rising-rate spring setup and if I get fully adjustable dampers they can up and easy to access without crawling under the car
4. I haven't looked at wheel rates, stock suspension travel estimates, or anything else yet.

Fun times ahead!

[forcefed1]

What good is access to a farro arm and laser scanner if you cant use them on saturday for fun? when technology disappears simple solutions are visible! great work! that will be some flare youll be making.

[q4stix]

Big milestone started/accomplished today: I placed the order for the transmission which is the last major component necessary!

I don't remember if I mentioned it earlier, but this will be a Corvette based T56 case with upgraded TR6060 internals, blueprinted assembly, and an adapter to bolt to the transfer case. It has to be a forward shift location instead of a mid-shift or tail shift. George Kreppein from Rockland Standard Gear will be building the unit for me and also works on the Tranzilla version of the T56.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=84977&d=1524694241

Once everything is built, shipped, and delivered, I'll be able to get to work on finalizing the powertrain and make some real progress!!

[q4stix]

While the transmission is still a work in progress and RS Gear is waiting for Tremec to send them some additional gearsets to give the ratios I requested, I went looking to see what I might do for the interior and alternatives to the Kirkey seats that might still allow the even more restrictive space of the wider tunnel and fit my tall and skinny frame.

I lucked out an found a discounted, yet brand new and genuine Bride Gias II seat. I point out genuine because there are replicas all over the place with varying quality standards in the fabrics and stitching and unknown internals. From my reading, some are fine to sit in, some wear out quickly, some look poor on arrival, and none are crash tested. You can get a pair of replicas for half the cost of a single genuine seat. It may be the 'sport' model aka least expensive model of that line, but the only difference is the internal frame is heavier and the back is a metallic painted fiberglass instead of the usual but more expensive Kevlar. It's based on a FIA certified model but has a recline ability. The 'Low Max' setup puts the top of the cushion only about 1.5" off of the very bottom of the seat.

Here it is in the car testing out the recline:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=85525&d=1525754605

Here is the side by side comparison to the Factory Five option of the Kirkey high-back seats:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=85526&d=1525754615

[Clover]

I'm jealous. That is a nice seat and I really like the style/aesthetics of it. I went and looked at seats too but I am already over budget and had to put that off for another day.

[q4stix]

I've hit my budget cap too so the only reason I felt comfortable buying it when I did is that I should be able to sell it for at least the same price rather quickly. That's also the reason I only bought one!

[forcefed1]

You sure have a bunch of things to be researching and figuring out.
keep up the great work!

keep the updates coming.

[q4stix]

Just a few more things to figure out hahaha
Really it's down to the engine build, the drivetrain assembly, new suspension design, bodywork modifications, and the usual kit building steps.... crap, that is a ton ;)

Here I am hitting refresh on the transmission tracking number (just departed Salt Lake City) and you have a sweet looking paint job and much of the car assembled already!

[TheBabyBadger]

Interesting AF. Subscribed.

[q4stix]

Special delivery just arrived!!
Tranzilla Magnum 4x4
2.97 / 2.07 / 1.43 / 1.00 / .74 / .50

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=85891&d=1526583915

[q4stix]

Small update but more of making progress on a project to make progress on this project.
As you can see, the engine is clearly [physically] closer to getting installed :)
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=86872&d=1528354501

I had to move the engine to make access for the Bridgeport mill teardown. I'm making good headway on the head disassembly so next is the turret and the table before I can pull the knee and strip the existing paint before starting to refinish and re-assemble:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=86873&d=1528354516

Thankfully the head was rebuilt shortly before I bought it but since it was still in use at a machine house before sitting outside under shelter, it does need some cleaning and re-greasing and oiling. The motor, varispeed drive, quill, and spindle all look in really good condition so thankfully my cheap mill can remain low cost to me.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=86874&d=1528354528

Last but not least, the mill will be first put to use making an adapter plate to the adapter. With the transmission output shaft being uncut as requested, there's about a 1.5" gap. I also don't know if I'll stick with the recommended Borg Warner 4404 or switch to the 4412 which has a much different mounting pattern. A takeout unit with a 31 spline input shaft will be crossing the US to let me check it all out.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=86875&d=1528354544

I'm looking forward to a little less planning and more cutting chips, test fitting, and welding in the future.

[q4stix]

Not too much has changed (as seems to be the typical), but the Bridgeport disassembly continues. I now have the turret off so all that's left now is the bed and knee before I can start stripping paint.

On the drivetrain side, I received my Borg Warner 4412 transfer case. It seems to be one of the few 31 spline inputs that is full time AWD with no hi and low gearing. The other is the BW 4404 seen in the previous post.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=87937&d=1530213097

Unlike the 4404, the 4412 is shorter after the chain, but longer in front of the chain. Instead of having to add another spacer like I thought I'd need, I'll need to shorten the existing adapter by 0.6" instead. The mounting holes are also a larger PCD which makes the mounting flange on the adapter too small too. Work, but not terrible.
I've kept the critical dimensions of all three transfer cases I've tried (4404, 4411, and 4412) which shows I'll have the most seat room with 4411 but only .5" more than the 4412 which has the correct input splines. Meaning no custom billet input shaft required. Yay!
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=87938&d=1530213098

I hope to pick up a Harbor Freight scissor transmission jack next weekend to lift the entire engine block, bellhousing, transmission, adapter, and transfer case into the car to figure out the new motor mount location as well as the final drivetrain height. Once the Bridgeport is back together, I'll use that and my lathe to modify the adapter.

[TheBabyBadger]

Looking GREAT! Keep at it!

[q4stix]

Still seems like not much has been happening on my end, but I've been busy with a new role at work which lets me be in more of a shop environment so I'm still getting my hands on work fix during the day/week. Still an engineer, but now I also get to help other engineers test ideas and improvements they have in a more rapid environment.

As a result, the car only now has the block, bellhousing, etc bolted together to get a more solid idea of the length and rotation of the transfer case to front diff driveshaft. I've got an idea of how I'll keep everything in alignment while modifying the adapter but I'm running that by some people in the shop to see if there's something better they can think of. Once that's done I'll make a quick coupling from the rear output of the transfer case to the rear diff and have one giant bolted assembly. Something tells me this won't drop in easily!
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=95755&d=1539844982

I've also been spending a lot more time while in the garage working on the Bridgeport. I've got it completely disassembled (meaning parts galore taking up floor space) and mostly stripped of paint, filler, and oil. Here's a 3 frame progression of the state of it. Original rusty and oily state, then needle scaled, and now Zep Purple cleaning and degreasing in the works.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=95756&d=1539844997

Up next is primer and paint for the mill so I can re-assemble and start making the new engine, trans, etc. mounts
For the car the next step is modifying the adapter. Hopefully with a bit more speed this month!

[q4stix]

Kicking off the weekend with a bit of tire, wheel, and widebody eye candy :)
I'm still kind of blown away by the size and these are only 295/40R18.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=95812&d=1539972280

No spacers here! Just 2015 Mustang GT axles and future custom A-arms
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=95813&d=1539972290

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=95814&d=1539972299

[TheBabyBadger]

GONNA BE A MONSTER!!! Love it! I'm running the same size wheels and tires... Now I'm SUPER excited for them to show up! Keep at it!

[SkiRideDrive]

This is amazing. I just found this thread and I feel like I am waiting for the next season to pop up on Netflix. Keep at it!

[q4stix]

This is amazing. I just found this thread and I feel like I am waiting for the next season to pop up on Netflix. Keep at it!

And like Netflix, I'll keep you waiting for months for the next update :P Just kidding, I hope to be able to spend more time getting things underway again in the near future.

[q4stix]

Back with an update. Work and everything else have been busy so I'm happy to report there is still progress being made on the car. Right now it just happens to be off of the car.

I'm getting close to wrapping up the transmission to transfer case adapter modifications needed. To sum it up, I'm using a different transfer case (Borg Warner 4412) than what the original adapter was designed for (BW4404) and in a different position which is further complicated by the fact that the 4412 has a different input shaft length and depth.

First step was to jump in with both feet and cut the adapter in half. Second was to modify it, and third will be to get it back in one piece.

I did some dumpster diving to get some scrap pieces of thick steel plate. The plates had 1/2" holes in it all over but I was able to work around that and create a fixture to hold the input and output flanges concentric to each other. Essentially making two tight tolerance round plates welded to a tube to hold the top and bottom relative to each other. You can see the two halfs and the tool fixture in this picture:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=99176&d=1545114470

On the back side of the output flange I used the lathe to cut a groove for the transfer case alignment ring but only 0.1" deep so not to weaken the flange too much. The groove isn't square and the bottom is more of a \__/ shape so stress concentrations shouldn't be too high (I hope). This way I can also use the BW4404 as a fall-back option since both can be held concentric to the transmission output shaft. You can also see the places I used a dry-erase marker as an indicator to wear off where the groove hit before seating the transfer case and needed machined more. Low cost tech for the win!
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=99177&d=1545114483

Here's the fixture in the output flange for reference:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=99178&d=1545114497

Here's the input flange half added with the fixture aligning everything and at the right height. I also ground off the paint in a few areas for an electrical ground path while welding depending on where it's clamped:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=99179&d=1545114508

Finally a side view with the shortened parts. The butt joint on the center tube should minimize flange distortion and I can still skim the input flange face to make sure everything is parallel. I added a chamfer to each part on the suggestion of a coworker to help with welding penetration since this will be reacting the output torque:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=99180&d=1545114521

Next is to weld it up and then test fit the adapter. After that is to try to get the whole mockup (engine block to transfer case) in the car to check that fit!

[cgundermann]

Really, really enjoy your posts and engineering details. Way, way cool!

Chris

[q4stix]

Really, really enjoy your posts and engineering details. Way, way cool!

Chris

Thanks! Glad to hear that because sometimes I feel like I go overboard describing things not related to a 'normal' build. Lots more to go to make this all work

[q4stix]

We're shortened, welded, and test fit!

Seems like we got good penetration on the weld area and pretty good color distribution showing the heated regions. We skipped around similar to tightening lug nuts to minimize any distortion too.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=99282&d=1545338091

Here's it back together at the proper length and ready to test fit next. This should happen sometime over the Christmas to New Year's break and then I can figure out how much to raise the rear differential and see how to run the forward driveshaft
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=99283&d=1545338120

I'm also still working on my mill cleaning and restoration. Amazing how much grease, oil, etc. keeps coming out of the castings but I'm getting close to wrapped up smelling Zep Purple in the garage and house for a while

[Erik W. Treves]

Geez! That is a quite a piece there... I think you have quite a vision...a tip of the hat to you for setting off in a direction and making it work! I am excited to see the front D/S go in and the front end assy....this should be a pretty nice machine and a one of a kind when complete... keep at it please!!! 4WD Gen 3 coupe.... that's cool.

[q4stix]

Geez! That is a quite a piece there... I think you have quite a vision...a tip of the hat to you for setting off in a direction and making it work! I am excited to see the front D/S go in and the front end assy....this should be a pretty nice machine and a one of a kind when complete... keep at it please!!! 4WD Gen 3 coupe.... that's cool.

Thanks! Means a lot coming from you after your great builds!

Maybe I'll have this all figured out for when the Gen 3 based supercar is released and then I can twin turbo the setup in that car like you did :)

[q4stix]

Mockup Install Update!

A friend of mine was able to come over and help me get the bare engine block, transmission, and adapter into the chassis so I could start getting a better idea of the actual space and the number of additional modifications required to make this crazy idea actually work.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=100547&d=1547276119

While this looks straightforward, the output shaft sticking out so far meant we had to pull things back forward to slide the transfer case on. You might be able to see that I cut to additional tubes on the tunnel near where the shifter location is because of interference (mid and rear shift are not options on the AWD transmission because of the rear adapter)
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=100548&d=1547276132

Then, like all good things I try, there were more interferences. I handed my friend the recip saw and said go at it but he was a bit hesitant. After I showed him I already chopped that particular tube and it just had to be even shorter he had a go. This was the X member on the floor that also had the driver's seat belt tab on the tunnel side. That'll be sure to be added back.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=100549&d=1547276146

More cutting and grinding occurred on the transfer case and frame:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=100550&d=1547276158

Tada! I'm in a seat and in the car next to the giant drivetrain!
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=100551&d=1547276171

One pic from the front:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=100552&d=1547276184

One from the side:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=100553&d=1547276196

It's not ideal yet, but I'll work on that some.

[q4stix]

Also, I got my first real TIG welding lesson. I've done stick, used a torch to weld, braze, and cut, and done MIG but not really TIG. I'm keeping it too cold and using too little filler, but apparently my general technique is pretty good for a self described beginner:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=100554&d=1547276213
This will all come in handy when I fix the frame, make new motor, transmission, and differential mounts, and then eventually the new suspension arms and exhaust headers.

Fun times!

[cgundermann]

Freaking cool! Incredible work...

Chris

[Erik W. Treves]

Well cool! Just some bracing to add back in there... looks like the shifter is a little father forward than stock but manageable for sure. More filler on the welds for sure. :)

[SkiRideDrive]

Itching for more updates!

[q4stix]

Hey SkiRideDrive! I've been spending a lot of time working and not at much time doing actual physical work on the car. I'm still trying to design things here and there and hope to be back to things soon. On the bright side, I've learned enough Mastercam and G code to run our CNC machine here at work (a 30x16" travel, 3 axis) to make a few things for work that are fully contoured, use 8 different mill bits, and 12-15 hours of machine time each (yes, it's not a high speed machine, but still works haha).

I'd like to be putting in more hours before too long.

I'm trying to search out a 3d scanner so I can better design and fit the front and rear suspensions, so if anyone has a 3d scanner they're willing to loan out, I'm all ears!

[q4stix]

Small update:
I've been trying to figure out how to best raise the differential to match the rest of the raised driveline (due to the transfer case) and came up with a solid coupler for mockup purposes. They had a scrap piece of 2" thick, 5x5" steel used elsewhere that was getting thrown out so I snagged it.

I made a quick sketch showing the dimensions of the flanges I have (see earlier when I replaced the differential pinion flange from the 2015+ Mustang GT CV style flange to the F150 style flat flange meant for a U-joint bolting to it.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=105085&d=1554505485

A mockup in 3d helped me figure out how I'd do everything so I could reference it on the lathe and fit the bolts in (barely). FYI, the pinion flanges are threaded so I wanted to make use of them instead of drilling them out and threading the coupler or having the treads misaligned and causing a gap between the flanges and coupler
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=105086&d=1554505491

Complete after a long time of running the lathe at some pretty slow speeds to cut all the steel
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=105087&d=1554505500

Not sure when I'll get it in, but that's my next step.

[q4stix]

Minor update, I got the differential out of the Factory Five as-designed mounts and raised it about 3" with a jack to get the coupler I made installed.

You can see my driveline is pretty much one giant inline group of stuff.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=105423&d=1554852510

Here's a closer view of the coupler from above installed and how much the diff was raised.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=105424&d=1554852518

Finally, a back view showing the new position I need to make mounts for:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=105425&d=1554852524

[P100DHG]

Can the CV joints on the axels accommodated the difference in height?

[q4stix]

Can the CV joints on the axels accommodated the difference in height?

Very good question. The short answer is "maybe", but I think so.
Take a look at the pictures in this post (#55): https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?22141-Stix-s-Gen-3-Coupe-Build-Striped-Steel&p=310201&viewfull=1#post310201
Between the nominal position looking to be slightly up, running the longer axles of the Mustang GT combined with a slightly lower ride height should make the effective difference only 2" instead of a 3" actual differential height change. Since I'm also going to run stock length GT axles, I'm pretty sure I can source some that have high angle CVs in them.

[q4stix]

Here's first cut at the axle angle with a 4.5" or so ride height. I'll know better once I get the whole powertrain height and position finalized, but we're looking good for now:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=105830&d=1555451433

Next up is the height of the engine end at the mounts and then seeing how to snake the front driveshaft in. If that shows good I'll weld in a new frame beam for the new differential height and redo the engine mounts before starting to cut up the front suspension area to make room for the front diff.

[P100DHG]

Looks great! Very exciting. I love watching this build unfold!

[Hankl]

Totally Crazy, but in a good way, here's your sign!!

Raise your right hand and say after me,

"I (State your name), do swear/affirm, that upon acceptance of this "Revered Coupe Jacket", will willingly subject myself to all manner of frustration and abrasion that my FFR Type 65 will provide. I further pledge that any and all fellow Coupe builders will have free reign in using the cash available in my wallet as they see fit to improve my build plan. I will not look down upon our fellow Roadster builders, but rather take pity on those not talented enough to build a race car with a roof, So Help Me God!"



It is my pleasure to present you with the "Revered Coupe Jacket" # 2, Here's your sign!!

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w284/hankl_album/straight_jacket_backFS-1.jpg


Hank :cool:

[q4stix]

Since you gave me one back in 2017 does this mean you're telling me I need two straitjackets just to contain my crazy ideas? LOL

[Hankl]

Yes!!!!

[q4stix]

Thought experiment time:
I've been reading about multiple people trying to quiet down the exhaust volume, Slimline 30" being sold out (my original option), etc and I wanted to get an idea of what I could do with yet another non-standard idea. Since I had time at my computer after getting a CNC job started at work, I played around with using a muffler and tucking it in the Coupe recess and begin seeing how it would work.
Obviously this isn't a finished product. I haven't verified the dimensions on the car itself but I pulled actual sizes from a few mufflers online, chose circle and oval pipe sizes based on rough numbers for flow, and started up our CAD software. Here's the result after a couple hours.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=107458&d=1558163810
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=107457&d=1558163798

You'll need to ignore the left side since I'm leaning towards a tri-Y header design to widen the powerband and clearly it sticks forward of the actual body opening right now. The bottom element is a side skirt that would be enabled with my widebody setup and having to put in some wheel arch flares to fit the tires completely.

As stated, completely a thought experiment but since I haven't had time to touch the actual car, this was the next best thing for an engineer.

[q4stix]

A bit of a progression on the thought experiment. I measured some on the actual body and tried to better match them in 3D. I also added some wheels and the flares I'll need to support my other changes. I colored the body silver/steel/grey to better match how it'll be to reflect my thinking.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=107867&d=1558739619

In other news, since I was able to spend a few minutes of time in my garage after doing some yard work, I notched yet another frame member near the transmission mount location so it would clear the CV joint of the front driveshaft. Looking even closer now although it'll need a custom length in the end. The lowest point of the CV cup is flush with the bottom plane of the chassis and the current diameter driveshaft just clears the transmission mount plate
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=107868&d=1558739719

[John Dol]

Nice! I like the rendering, think that will look good.


John

[q4stix]

I've been thinking more about the front suspension and assembly and decided to spend a whopping $50 to help make some progress. That let me order front hubs for a recent Ford Explorer AWD model since they check a couple requirements. First, they're splined for front axles (27 splines), second they're 5x4.5 or 5x114.5 so they share the same wheel PCD as the 2015+ Mustang GT IRS hubs, third they have the same hub diameter meaning the same wheel bore with hubcentric rings and the ability to rotate tires, and an added fourth... they're super inexpensive if a bearing fails.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=109327&d=1561104703

They did come with the downfall of having a larger diameter hub section where the brake rotors go meaning the Wilwood aluminum rotor hat wouldn't fit. The hub also has what I found to be a 5/64" radius at the bottom which added some fun to make things flat. The Factory Five hubs and knuckles are much smaller in diameter, helped in large part by not needing an axle and splines going through it.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=109328&d=1561104712

All in all, I had to increase the rotor hat hub bore from about 3.05" to 3.23" along with an inboard chamfer to clear the hub radius. Not terribly complex but holding that in the lathe proved fun since I couldn't chuck it up internally since that was the machined area. Next up is stacking the hub, rotor, and wheel together to figure out the stud replacement lengths and pressing those in with ones that match the rear (unlike the FFR instructions which press out the rears to match the fronts.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=109329&d=1561104721

I'm also modeling up new rear suspension A-arms to support the longer rear axles. More on that later

[John Dol]

Experience+Ability+Equipment= next level build


I know it will take a while yet but can't wait to see this one done. You are creating lot of challenges by going of the beaten path, and overcoming them.

John

[q4stix]

Visual update for the front:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=109634&d=1561585183

Next up on this is starting to design the knuckle to support this particular hub and caliper setup as well as figuring out the ackerman steering and tie rod placement.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=109635&d=1561585192

[q4stix]

Long overdue update after being super busy with work and trying to take care of things at home with other projects.

I've been trying to do even more planning and see how everything up front can fit in the frame and still function well. Here are some pictures of it all:

With the engine raised some because of driveline fitment, the intake manifold is going to be mighty close to the hood. The front diff in this picture is slightly offset to the passenger side since I need to cut the frame on the driver side to make it fit. On top is the GT350 electric steering rack I want to also try to fit after seeing if I can make it work with the AEM Infinity CANBUS outputs
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=114935&d=1569442861

Top view of everything mentioned above and the steering rack just sitting on top waiting to find a location
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=114936&d=1569442871

Side view of the car with more in place. Note, the passenger side rear is still the 'stock' Factory Five suspension
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=114937&d=1569442881

Here's more of the skinny Voodoo engine parts (de-bored Voodoo by using a Coyote block) since I had them set out for people to see during a 'tech talk' about kit cars at my house with a local car group... more on that later
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=114938&d=1569442890

Future work is still trying to get the front all sorted out with so much stuff fitting that isn't designed by Factory Five to be there

[q4stix]

Small update after long delay. Work has still been busy and I've been having to take care of a lot of other things too, so the car has sat waiting for me for a while now while I ponder about how to implement next steps.

On a bright note, I received a question at work about a 3d scanner so I ended up being the one to hunt down a scanner that was stashed away years ago and got it finally running enough to do a scan. Keep in mind this is both 10 year old technology and my first time, but since I had my electric power steering rack for the Coupe in my daily driver's trunk, I used it as a test sample to scan. Now I can see how it'll fit in 3D assuming I can model up the front differential! Too bad I don't have a scanner of my own that could scan all of the parts ahead of time.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=118871&d=1576208846
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=118872&d=1576208857

[John Dol]

That's cool Stix!!
Hope to see some more progress on your car soon.

John

[q4stix]

The build continues, just not at the pace I was once doing...

Everything clearly won't fit up front and I'm a little more hesitant to just go cutting everything like I did the center (that's recoverable, the front would need more of a jig to hold everything true). With that, I've been doing lots and lots of measuring and translating that into 3D so I can move things around and be more intentional about cuts and modifications. I also would have a fair amount of difficulty holding everything in place due to the weight of the front differential and steering rack not to mention the position I'd have to be in to hold everything at once.

CAD to the rescue!
I *think* this might work if I can get the steering geometry to work with the rack in this location. It's upper aft to clear the front driveshaft and leave the airflow from the radiator out the top of the hood.

Front view:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=120838&d=1579335392

Top view:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=120839&d=1579335400

Back to front. Here you can see I tilted the electric steering rack back about 45 degrees because of the motor and electronics. This also helps the input angle relative to where the steering shaft exits the footbox:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=120840&d=1579335413

Left-ish ISO view:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=120841&d=1579335421

As you can see, the factory shock location just isn't going to work once an axle is in place. I'm also going to check how the front driveshaft will force the driver side motor mount pillar to change. I'm also really, really hoping the model can translate into the real world without lots of last minute catches.

With any luck I'll be able to cut and fit physical parts before too long instead of just 3D!

[Grkmf3]

Subscribed

And i would like to say thank you for saving me money. How you ask,,,,because i don't need to buy Viagra for the duration of this build.;)

[q4stix]

More 3d eye candy while I kill time not running around away from home in the Seattle area (not that I really do anyway since I'm an introverted engineer haha).

I've been thinking about the upright/spindle for the front suspension as well as the A-arms and here where I'm at now:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=124458&d=1584747867

And looking inboard with the brake rotor hidden:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=124460&d=1584747874

For this setup to work I'll need to double check the steering rack fitment right above the differential and I'll need to swap the Wilwood rotor hats for a lower, near zero offset instead of the ones that were included and I already modified. Small cost mistake but in the grand scheme not terrible. If I can get this all to look functional I'll start looking into fabricating the parts... that is after I design the pushrod, bellcrank, and coilover setup. The wide front suspension will work with or without AWD but I'm still doing it fully with AWD in mind.

[Jacob McCrea]

Looking good; it's as ambitious and unique as I have seen anywhere.

[q4stix]

Now that it's a month later from my previous post and I've finally had a few minutes to keep designing, here are some updates regarding the suspension getting closer to feasible. The pivot point of the outer CV is still a bit of a concern for me because it doesn't line up with the rotational axis of the upright assembly which makes the overall axle length increase with large steering angles. I'm not sure it would be enough for the halfshaft to pop out but it's something I need to look into.

Other than that, I've got a better steering rack position using the manual rack, the pushrod location roughed out to clear the halfshaft and the A-arm, and an approximate location for the bellcrank and shock. I've also reworked the steering bracket which helps keep the moment arm length to keep steering effort from being too high, especially with a manual rack.

With the pushrod moving and having to clear the halfshaft it's imposing that I move the pickup point inboard which then increases the bending moment on the arm, thickens the tubes, etc. Not great but a fair tradeoff to get this all working functionally.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=126976&d=1587677608

Also, fender flare idea update:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=126977&d=1587677675

[q4stix]

Some of you may have already seen this on FB or IG, but I wanted to put it here for those of you who haven't seen it and also to document it for myself for later.

Here's some late night design on the headers. The layout gives me a tri-Y with 25" long stepped (15” of 1 3/4” to 10” of 1 7/8”) primaries, 36" long (2 1/4”) secondaries. This will let me be balanced and also clear my front driveshaft for AWD. Final Y collector is at the end of the two secondaries but not shown.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=128824&d=1590163659

Part of my reasoning for this is to broaden the powerband instead of having it all be aimed up top with a shorter 4 to 1 or slightly more peaked but slightly wider with a longer 4 to 1. Another reason to try to do it this way is to get my Coyote based Voodoo setup not to sound like an obnoxious Honda 4 cylinder on either side of my head while sitting in the car (and to others).

I realize there's a lot more complexity than the standard routing but I was going to redesign the side pipes anyway because of the standard restrictions and poor side pipe connection, the engine is raised about 3” to accommodate the transfer case and front driveshaft, the steering shaft won’t be in the same location, and the driveshaft is in the way if I go straight down.

Still… comments, suggestions, random thoughts, dislikes, etc. all welcome since I know people on here are pretty level headed and many have more experience than I do.

[Blue Viking]

Awesome work, gonna be one of a kind for sure! Have you finished mounting the Pinion Flange yet? In the same process myself, interested to see if you were able to close the gap on the dust cover.

[q4stix]

Hi, yes I got the dust cover in place too. I answered your question on the other thread you posted, but I think what worked in my application may not be best applicable to your application.

Here's hoping I pull it all off and have a working one of a kind and not a fun looking static display :)

[Blue Viking]

Sorry, didnt see this until now. Just picked up my new pinion flange and shortened driveshaft from the axle shop. Had to modify the flange they found for me, should fit nicely now. But also had to shorten the driveshaft a bit. A little welding to be done on the frame, had to cut out a piece where the parking brake bracket sits, but in the end, if everything works out as intended, the engine will sit in the stock position.

[RuffShod]

Wow!!!

[q4stix]

Suspension update....finally!

I was able to 3d print the two ends of my A-arms and I used some PVC pipe to complete the lengths of the A-arms to get the mock-up rolling along. A little bit of PVC cement and I was good to go (mostly). The legs are to the correct lengths as I designed them (rod end to spherical) and the diameters are close.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=132638&d=1596009414

Here are a couple pictures of everything in place minus the pushrod.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=132641&d=1596012012
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=132640&d=1596012000
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=132639&d=1596009902

Finally, here's how much the width change will be. The front has a track that is 2" narrower than the rear... all without any spacers anywhere.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=132642&d=1596012149

[John Dol]

Not sure that's going to handle the G-forces with the PVC!

But seriously, great work. Going to need some serious fender flares.

John

[q4stix]

Yep! Flares will be a necessity :)

Not car progress, but progress on the mill to make parts for the car. I've been getting things prepared for painting the mill and have most of the things masked off (ways, mating surfaces, fastener holes, etc) and now a paint booth set up with the parts inside.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=133002&d=1596518217

I still need fans and filters in place before I can start though. Does anyone know what the setup should be for them? I think I remember the booth should be pressurized but I can't remember if the filters are for incoming air, outgoing, both, or what. I'm also not sure how to not have my driveway covered in mist and my neighbors not breathing in vapor or misted. Any help?

[Alphamacaroon]

When I built my paint booth (still using it), I made it positive pressure. Two fans blowing in air, with filters, and then filters on the other side of the tent to let the air out. Incoming vents prevent dust from entering the booth, outgoing vents prevent overspray from ruining your garage/driveway. I went with positive pressure because I like the idea that if there were any small holes anywhere, it would push dust out rather than sucking it in. Seems to be working pretty well so far. The only hard part was figuring out how to create a doorway that was also sealed. I found some neat 7 foot long zippers (Home Depot) with adhesive sides that are used for creating zippered doorways in tarps— you just stick it on, unzip it, then cut the plastic in-between the zipper and then you have an instant, well-sealed, doorway.

[q4stix]

Awesome, thanks for the info! I'll hunt for the zipper you're referring to. Seems a lot easier than making a door

[Alphamacaroon]

Awesome, thanks for the info! I'll hunt for the zipper you're referring to. Seems a lot easier than making a door

This is the one here: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Homax-7-ft-Clear-Tarp-Zipper-Door-3142/206526231, but it also seems like there may be some better ones out there. It works really well when it's finished, but it was a bit of a pain to install— the sticker peel-off was really difficult to separate.

[q4stix]

Reviving my own thread from the dead! Wow, didn't realize it's been so long since I've had a chance to make any real progress on things. Work has been full of challenges with projects, multiple late nights, and taking care of my own things too.

First up, I have the Bridgeport mill all painted and ready to start re-assembling. I was able to pick up a nice DRO and scales at an auction for a machining company going out of business. Hopefully those function well but too late to do anything about it now haha.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=141012&d=1611130372

One of the work projects has been repairing and upgrading the electronics to a CNC machine in our shop. Since I took it on I've had to do lots and lots of wiring, re-writing code, installing circuit boards, contactors, etc. to get it going since the machine was fairly analog based with 80's era computer controls. As part of the proof I did things right, I have to test things each step of the way. Now that I'm able to run NC style g-code and I have the tool changer up and running, I dove in with my own test program and a big chunk of 4140 alloy steel I bought and brought in. Nothing like putting your money where your mouth is. Figure out which parts this block will be turning into.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=141013&d=1611130412

As you can see, the tool paths all look smooth and consistent. Even after really ramping up the feed rates (450-500 SFM) for this machine and later finding a chipped carbide insert for some reason (these inserts can cut at 950 surface feet per min in steel), you can start to get a better idea of the parts in progress.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=141014&d=1611130460

Sadly after this I'll resort back to my own resources since the testing phase of this CNC machine will be complete and it'll be put into true prototyping use.

Hopefully the updates will be a bit more frequent but I suppose that won't be hard to do after this long delay.

[q4stix]

Clearly I haven't been posting as much as I'd like but that's also because I've been constantly busy with other things which means the coupe has taken the proverbial back seat (which it doesn't even have!).

As a new update, I finally have things basically ready to weld up one of the lower A-arms for the custom front suspension required for the all wheel drive. All that is left is fitting up the tubes to the CNC'd outer section and drilling the hole for the pushrod in the CNC part. Since the test machining wasn't on a 4 or 5 axis machine I couldn't just punch in that pair of holes without fixturing the parts another time in the machine. Easier to just do on a manual mill later when I don't have to worry about holding up other projects.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=144220&d=1615603953
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=144219&d=1615603808

[Snowman]

This is one of my favorite build to follow. It's gonna be a very unique and awesome coupe when complete!

[q4stix]

This is one of my favorite build to follow. It's gonna be a very unique and awesome coupe when complete!

Keyword "when" hahaha!

[q4stix]

And then there were two...
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=144746&d=1616203992

Now to start getting the uppers ready for welding and heat treat like the lowers.

[q4stix]

Now there are 4 A-arms and two push rods ready to be welded and heat treated. The sphericals locations will be bored out to after to allow for any distortion during heat treatment. The rod ends will come last.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=149330&d=1623360304

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=149329&d=1623360297

I still need to make the upper mounting brackets or plates to allow for double shear on the bolts. After that it's upright / knuckle work. At the very least, when these are done it'll go a long way towards making me feel like I've had some real progress after such a long time.

[John Dol]

Those look great, not being an engineer myself how do you know what pipe size and wall thickness to use in a project like this?

John

[q4stix]

John - There are a few different things that determine it. I estimated the loading based on the car weight, cornering loads, etc.

From there I knew the geometry of the suspension and I set up 'free body diagrams'.... basically coordinate systems that show where the load is going with angles and such. Next is solving some equations and getting loads in each part. From there it's standard formulas that take into account tube material properties, cross sections, fixity (pinned-pinned because of sphericals), and a few other things. I've also got a safety factor in there because of plenty of driving unknowns like bumps and potholes, encompassing my estimates, and more. Most properties were assuming an infinite fatigue life which is super conservative.

The upper arm is sized by lateral loading, the pushrod by axial loading and buckling capability, the lower arm turned out to be sized by bending because I couldn't attach the pushrod as close to the upright as I would have liked because the front half shaft was in the way.

It seems a little daunting at first but looking at it in single steps and chunks makes it not so bad :)

[cgundermann]

This is my favorite build.

Hands down…

Chris

[Alphamacaroon]

Those are absolute works of art. It's almost a shame that they'll be hidden under the fenders. Almost.

Curious, how do you weld those? Do you just weld where they butt up, or do you drill a couple of holes or slots and fill weld so you get some joining where they overlap as well? I'm not a welder, so pardon if it's a stupid question :D

[q4stix]

Those are absolute works of art. It's almost a shame that they'll be hidden under the fenders. Almost.

Curious, how do you weld those? Do you just weld where they butt up, or do you drill a couple of holes or slots and fill weld so you get some joining where they overlap as well? I'm not a welder, so pardon if it's a stupid question :D

No stupid questions, I'm learning a lot of things too!
There are two variants that I'm aware of. One is to do a butt weld (which I'll be doing with a chamfered edge on each part to form a V to fill) and the other is to do that plus a 'rosette' weld which is drilling further towards the end of the tube end insert and doing a filling weld (sometimes just the tube, sometimes both). I plan to just do a butt weld but may do the rosette last min.

Butt weld only
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=149594&d=1623952863

Rosette weld:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=149595&d=1623958813

btw, going to send you an unrelated PM :)

[Alphamacaroon]

Rosette weld— that's exactly what I was thinking! Now I know what to call it. Thanks!

[q4stix]

Welding time!
I had a friend and a friend of a friend come over to my place and get the A-arms and pushrods welded up. He has a lot of experience (training and job) and knowledge (degree) in materials / materials joining so really it was a no-brainer when he agreed to help with these. He has a new, water cooled Tig setup from Miller and was happy to have a project for it again.

Since the parts are 4140 and 4130 that I bought in the annealed state and I want to get them heat treated, he hunted down some 4130 filler rod instead of the typical ER70.. or ER80.. type filler. This would allow the weld area to be more uniform with the base metal and be able to be heat treated to the same levels instead of the ER series wire.

So... on to pictures.
I used my oven to get the parts preheated to 400F to help ensure the weld areas in the alloy steels wouldn't later crack. We then locally heated the weld areas with a MAP torch before welding began.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=150104&d=1625104016

He welded all of the tube ends first. Notice the safe attire haha. He said it's the first time he's welded in sandals but not the first time in shorts. We experienced record breaking heat this weekend in Seattle so I couldn't blame him. Molten metal might have felt cooler with the humidity and heat we're not used to (typical 70s or 80s and it hit almost 110 at my place this weekend)
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=150105&d=1625104027

All the tubes were stuck in a bucket of sand to control the cool down rate after the ends were welded. When those were cooled we started the pre-heat cycle for the tubes to the machined lugs. Weld. Sand cool-down.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=150106&d=1625104035

Final results!
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=150107&d=1625104048

I'll drill the pushrod holes after heat treat and bore out the spherical bearing holes to their final diameter to account for any shift or deformation during heat treatment:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=150108&d=1625104063

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=150109&d=1625104071

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=150110&d=1625104077

I just dropped off the parts to a local heat treat shop (ok, a business that does large castings, machining, and heat treatment) that agreed to put my personal project in their flow since I asked for a fairly typical heat treat level of 150-160ksi.

Now it's a waiting game for them to anneal, heat treat, and temper before I can chase the threads in the ends and finish machine everything. In the mean time I'm finally getting back to moving the Bridgeport base in place to re-assemble that.

[John Dol]

Pretty cool stuff as usual. It’s nice to have accomplished friends!;)

John

[johnpinetree]

Phenomenal phenomenal build thread. Someone mentioned episodes on netflix, I feel the same way, only I don't watch TV. I prefer to spend my screen time reading amazing threads like this!

I almost feel bad inserting a Coyote question here (this thread really is like an art piece), but... like you I went with a gen 2 coyote and will go with an AEM Infinity (we chatted for a sec on the other forum). Question for you is: would you recommend going with the AEM harness and modifying that harness as needed? I've got no ECU at all right now... but figured what better way to start than by diving off the deep end??? I know you haven't been thinking about the Coyote lately, but mine just made it to Denver and am hoping to start some tinkering.

[q4stix]

I went with a gen 2 coyote and will go with an AEM Infinity (we chatted for a sec on the other forum). Question for you is: would you recommend going with the AEM harness and modifying that harness as needed? I've got no ECU at all right now... but figured what better way to start than by diving off the deep end??? I know you haven't been thinking about the Coyote lately, but mine just made it to Denver and am hoping to start some tinkering.

Hey! I haven't been able to be on the forums for 3 weeks so sorry if I missed a question on the other forum. Closer to back to normal now.
The AEM harness makes things really easy. Think of it as the equivalent as the Ford control pack harness for the Infinity. Both require the engine harness still. You can add in extra fuses and lines if needed too. I bought the Ron Francis harness with my kit before I knew about all the AEM harness stuff so I'm sure there is overlap between the two but that'll be ok. I didn't have to modify anything to get the engine running other than fixing a pin location mentioned in my earlier comments.

[q4stix]

Progress on two fronts recently...

First, the Bridgeport is finally getting assembled in position!
Base first
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=152577&d=1629761742

Then knee, turret, and ram. This accounts for a majority of the 'heavy' items. Once I replace the bearing in the knee that goes over the lifting screw, I'll be able to get the table put on. The head re-assembly will follow all of that.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=152578&d=1629761742

Now for the front suspension update:
The arms and pushrods are back from heat treatment. At first I specified a minimum strength of 160ksi (160,000 lbs tension capability per square inch of material cross sectional area). I didn't specify a maximum because that was a fairly easy target to hit. I figured it'd come back around 180ksi. Turns out they figured they could skip tempering and that resulted in almost 240ksi. Way over the minimum so technically they met my requirements. Since stronger equals harder which equals less elongation and more brittle (in a relative sense, not like a ceramic brittle), I asked them to temper it lower. In the end it came out to 200-215ksi depending on the 4130 tubing and 4140 lug. Still has good elongation to prevent cracks due to bumps or road hazards but still strong enough to give me extra safety margin from what I calculated originally.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=152579&d=1629761742

In this picture you can see where they removed the scale after quenching so they can do hardness testing (and calculate strength based on that). Look close and you'll see multiple, tiny dimples from the tester on the end and on the tube.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=152580&d=1629761742

The dark arms are after heat treat, tempering, and quenching. The light is after a soft sand blasting to get the scale off. I don't think I'll polish or powder coat the arms but I will probably clear coat them after I solvent clean the outside to keep the metallic look but prevent rust on the alloy steel.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=152581&d=1629761742

Next up is boring out the lug ends for the spherical bearings and grooving them for a snap ring. The lowers will also have the hole drilled for the pushrod rod end.
I'm also starting on the upright parts for the spindle, brakes, steering, etc.

[q4stix]

Onward with the latest

I did a quick test fit of the A-arms on the chassis and I think they'll work pretty well once I get some proper spacers/parts made to take up the gap between the arm lugs on the chassis and the rod ends. This will also be one of the ways I can adjust the caster in the front even though I'd rather the lower arms stay relatively fixed due to the pushrods connecting there.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=153351&d=1631577466

The upright has also made progress with the LH/driver's side one. I started with a billet of 14lbs of 7075 aluminum and started machining away.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=153352&d=1631577466

Mid progress before flipping:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=153353&d=1631577466

The end result is an upright that weighs 5lbs, 2oz. Not super duper light but considering I'm doing hand calcs and conservative estimates (I hope haha), I don't think it's too shabby. If anyone wants to weigh the front spindle Factory Five provides to compare, feel free to post the weight of that.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=153354&d=1631577466

Finally, this is the configuration of the front suspension including the upright, hub, brakes caliper and rotor, steering bracket, etc. There's still a few 3d printed parts I need to fabricate out of metal but the progress was good for a couple weeks.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=153355&d=1631577466

Still on the list is boring out the a-arm lug ends for the spherical bearings and grooving them for a snap ring.

[Skuzzy]

Looks like fun!

[q4stix]

More two front progress. First the car:

I was able to bore out the holes for the spherical bearings at the end of the A-arms and also put in the grooves for the internal snap rings that will retain the sphericals. I'll get a couple more pictures once I clearcoat the arms since two of the ends I machined too undersized (not a big enough bore) for the press fit. I'll have to re-jig those two or figure something out. I didn't notice until I removed them from the jig because measuring the bore with a dial bore gauge requires decent access vertically. Live and learn
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=156258&d=1636764723

I created some spacers for the rod ends to the frame. Since the original a-arm setup from Factory Five has wide bushings and the rod ends are comparatively narrow, the gap had to be filled. Here's a simple, yet cool looking spacer I'll replicate for the locations.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=156259&d=1636764723
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=156260&d=1636764723

Next up is finishing the spherical installs, clear coat the arms, make more spacers, and then finally install the arms to the chassis! And people talk about long waits on their suspension parts backorder list ;)

[q4stix]

Bridgeport resto progress:
Here's the knee components that lift and lower the table. Rather dirty and greasy.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=156261&d=1636764741

The knee bearing that supports the weight of the table was just plain nasty. You can see the grease I picked out on the table below my hand. I then put it and the other parts in an ultrasonic bath. Thank goodness for cheap Harbor Freight jewelry cleaners and Simple Green :)
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=156262&d=1636764741

Components cleaned and ready to re-install. I was able to get the knee to raise and lower with the crank so that means progress!
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=156263&d=1636764741

[cgundermann]

Unbelievably mad skills - sooo nice!

Chris

[cgundermann]

Very, very, very nice work!

Chris

[q4stix]

More front suspension updates:

I got all of the a-arm spherical bearings and internal snap rings installed. The upper arms use a 'typical' spherical while the lowers that have more load through them and hold the weight of the front of the car up both use a wide ball spherical to take more axial load. Shown is an upper arm.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=158148&d=1638404396

All 4 front arms with the spacers:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=158149&d=1638404396

Rod end side to attach with the chassis. The washers are a set thickness which will later give me flexibility with alignment adjustments to dial in caster. I will have jam nuts before setting the car on the ground:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=158150&d=1638404396

Lower arm with spacers on the chassis. Notice the gap that had me a bit confused at first:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=158151&d=1638404396

Turns out the spacers were hitting the liner which was slightly thicker than the spec showed:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=158152&d=1638404396

Instead of modifying the replaceable rod end, I narrowed the end of the spacer to clear the liner:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=158153&d=1638404405

Upright progress is scheduled next

[cgundermann]

WOW - nicely done!

Chris

[q4stix]

I had a free night to work on the Coupe in the garage last night so I took advantage of that and started assembling all the components that I've been working to fabricate in little time increments available.

First up is the lower a-arm to upright bracket. I made the spacers to evenly hold the spherical bearing in the middle of the opening even though there's a bit of extra material on the arm itself. More on that later...
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=158468&d=1639164362

As a general rule of thumb for me, I didn't want to be threading into aluminum for a complex part in case the threads failed or got damaged. Didn't want to replace a complex part when I could more easily replace a simple part. This called for something to act like a nut that is captured in place. I've seen barrel nuts before so I replicated that. These are hardened steel rods that fit in the bores of the upright and are threaded. I matched the angle of the upright on one end to help with alignment since it's a blind setup.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=158469&d=1639164371

Both a-arm brackets and upright all attached:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=158470&d=1639164383

Some views of the tight clearances. Someone on Facebook commented on the caster angle but if you look closely you can see the lower arm connects in front of the wheel centerline and the upper arm connects just behind the wheel centerline giving me positive caster. The scrub radius is minimal even with the wide upper bracket because my wheel offset is +22 and that puts the pivot point just outside of center.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=158471&d=1639164383


View looking inboard you can see the pushrod almost at the back of the upper a-arm. Once connected to the bellcrank it'll have a bit more clearance.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=158472&d=1639164383

In the aft view looking forward, you can see the pushrod is really close to the CV boot. I thought it would clear more but obviously not, so I'll need to think about that one. I don't want it to rub and tear open throwing grease everywhere.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=158473&d=1639164383

Finally, the front view looking aft. Here if you look at the a-arm brackets you'll be able to see a little bit of contact to the upper a-arm. I'll clearance that a bit and check where there's a rub with the upright at full droop and where full lock left and right will be. I have some rubbing and will need to disassemble it to see exactly where. Right now I have free movement up and down by a total of 4". I'd like to clearance that to get 2.5" up and 2.5" down with full steering lock at the extremes. Not that I'd be at full lock in full compression, but I'd rather it not bind on me either.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=158474&d=1639164383

So, more to do, but more progress too.

[cgundermann]

Absolutely incredible!

Chris

[Geoff H]

I agree! Amazing skill!
Thank you for continuing to post your progress.

[jdm65]

Can't believe this is the first time I'm seeing this - incredible work!!

[q4stix]

Thanks everyone!

No big news to report yet, but I've been trying to work to get the passenger side suspension to the same state that the driver's side is at.

[q4stix]

I got a little more time to work on the car over the weekend so here's the current state of it all:

I have a quick bracket for holding the steering rack in the expected location above the differential. It'll feed between the 'A' of the standard chassis above the upper a-arm as seen in the third picture. I made a wood holder for the differential to get it at the right height and already cut off the aft driver's side 'normal' steering rack bracket.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=162562&d=1644876213

View looking top-down and forward. Everything is super tight to the frame. The differential needs to go further towards the driver's side to have equal length half shafts so I've already started notching the frame (after the pic was taken) to get it to fit correctly.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=162559&d=1644876213

Side view of the steering rack and differential output locations:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=162560&d=1644876213

Finally a wider view of the current front:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=162561&d=1644876213

I need to finish the frame notching for the front diff, then cut out for the steering rack extensions, then I'll get the bellcrank and coilover mounts located. Lots to do but good to get a sense of front getting sorted out!

[jamminj]

Darn cool
that's going to be a lot of stuff happening in a small space
looks like you've got it handled

[Ltngdrvr]

That's where you think the final location for the steering rack is going to be?
What spindles will you use?
How will the tie rods coming off the rack connect to the steering arms on the spindle?
Can't see how the steering geometry will work on that the way you have it currently.

[q4stix]

That's where you think the final location for the steering rack is going to be?
What spindles will you use?
How will the tie rods coming off the rack connect to the steering arms on the spindle?
Can't see how the steering geometry will work on that the way you have it currently.

I've got pictures of the spindles I designed and made on the previous page. The steering links attach at the top front of the upright.

This post shows the 3d view of it to help visualize it
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?22141-Stix-s-Gen-3-Coupe-Build-Striped-Steel&p=408700&viewfull=1#post408700

[q4stix]

Darn cool
that's going to be a lot of stuff happening in a small space
looks like you've got it handled

"handled" meaning I'll keep poking away at it until it works :)

[Greenleaf13]

Awesome build.
Thanks for sharing your project!

[tomshep]

Keep up the work!

[q4stix]

April Fool's update:

I did some more checking on the width of the CV joints on the front differential and found I needed to shift the differential over another .2 inches to get the half shafts to be the same length. More cutting of the frame happened so I'll need to tidy it up from here. Sorry Factory Five.... it had to happen haha

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=164877&d=1648845241

It's ugly right now but I'll clean up the cut lines and then weld in plate to fully enclose the tubes again and keep water and debris from getting it and restore the strength.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=164878&d=1648845241

I also bought some more filament to get some of the exhaust mocked up. Easy to do while I'm not able to get to the car since the printer just works away
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=164879&d=1648845241

I'll need to move the X-pipes forward a little but I'll finalize that once I have a real engine in and know the clearance to the harmonic balancer and accessories.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=164880&d=1648845241

I also 3d printed a bracket mockup of where I'll mount the shock from the bellcrank (right side of image)
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=164881&d=1648845241


For the Bridgeport inching closer to assembled, I got the saddle (y-axis) cleaned, painted, and the oiling lines routed. Next I can put this 100lb part on the base and get on to the table (the 250-275lb behemoth)
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=164882&d=1648845251

The loose lines go to the ballscrews
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=164883&d=1648845251

[WIS89]

Dude-

Mad skills man, just mad skills!! I am so overwhelmed by all that you are able to do, I just don't have the words. I wish you were my neighbor! I would love to be able to watch you do what you do.

Congratulations on the progress, and as always, thanks for bringing us along for the ride. It is going to be an extraordinary car!!

Keep up the great work!

Regards,

Steve

[Geoff H]

I agree. On a whole other level of skills. Thanks for the update!
Geoff

[q4stix]

Thanks guys, glad you like the updates!

I expect I'll be back in the garage tonight trying to finish the fitting and cleaning up the cuts so I can finalize the position and then plan the mounting locations. That'll go a long way towards the front design and layout getting solidified

[cgundermann]

Mind blown - as usual...

The Factory Five Wizard of Oz!

Chris

[q4stix]

First, I'm still working on fitting the differential. I'm almost there for clearances but need to make sure I have room to weld the supports back. It's taken a lot more fitting than I first expected but I'm glad to finally have it sit in the right position. The pictures of that don't show visible change so I skipped posting them.

On another front... or side, in the case..., I played with the side exhaust exit and a cover for a standard style muffler. Some will hate the look and that's ok by me. I get that it's not the typical visible look, single or dual pipe configuration.

This is what nearly $20 in 3d printed PLA looks like
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=166179&d=1651603782

The design is to slip into the dual entry/exit Magnaflow muffler. It's a 'straight though' perforated design but actually is set up like a X so it'll act to help as a final balance between pipes and keep the exhaust flow going
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=166180&d=1651603782

I'll plan to clean up the looks with a side skirt that blends into the side of the body. Will still be distinct to the eye but flow better than a giant stainless steel oval with the letters MF on it.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=166181&d=1651603782

Finally, this picture shows how far my wheels and tires go out running the stock Mustang GT rear axles (which I'll make new rear control arms for). I'll blend the side splitter into the wheel well body flares.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=166182&d=1651603782

Now back to getting the front diff completely in place so I can move on to the rest of the drivetrain height, angle, and mounting

[Skuzzy]

Ambitious design. Looking forward to seeing it completed.

[John Dol]

Looks great!
A former member "Oxide" did something similar with the side pipes. Looked really good, but we never got to see his finished car unfortunately.
Keep em coming!!

John

[q4stix]

It's been a super long time but I'm still alive and kicking! Just not on the Coupe at the moment. Busy with work and life even though I'm still working out ideas in my head and doing CAD design work to flesh out some things.

In work related news of something that I can share, I got a new toy to play with. Official calibration and machine release to me/my group is tomorrow. Too bad it's at work and not in my home garage so I can't exactly play by making all the custom parts I want to that much easier.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=178591&d=1674667275

Hopefully I'll have car progress news to share before long.

[Skuzzy]

Now that is a cool toy!

[jamminj]

finally have a face to connect to you.
so that is the 5 axis cnc you've been talking about

[q4stix]

Another long time away but some progress to show between life and work.

I sent the block and my pistons to a local business called "Spent Case Coatings" to get Cerakote on the outer part of the block and the piston tops. I think they turned out really well and hopefully I can get the front cover and heads done to match as well.
The block is 'titanium' colored air cure C-105 and the pistons were done with V-136 oven cure at 300F.

I'm still working on the mounting for the front differential and steering rack as time allows but now I can also spend some time on measuring bearing clearances and build up my short block.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=189786&d=1694024731

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=189785&d=1694024731

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=189787&d=1694024731

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=189784&d=1694024731

[jamminj]

Looks great.
glad to see your making progress.

[JimStone]

Just had the pleasure of reading through your build thread today. Thank you for documenting. Talk about a custom project! I'm hoping to order my coupe kit in a few months, but I could never dream of deviating this far from stock. Nor would I have the mental wherewithal to accomplish it.

Best of luck on your continued endeavors

[q4stix]

Hard to believe it's been almost 2 years since I last posted but time continues to get away from me. I keep telling myself I'll get out into the garage at night and then 10, 11, or midnight rolls around and I'm just wrapping up inside and it's time to get enough sleep to tackle the next day. Oh yeah, I went from 2 in the house to 4, so there's that. I'm sure many, many of you understand the time requirements in that.

So what have I done in the past 2 years on the car? Aside from putting baby gear on top of my projects?

Drivetrain:
I finally scanned the connected drivetrain. Good because it gave some clarity on just how tight the final positioning will be. It also gave me some good experience on how to use the new scanner for work and give some likes/dislikes for when I get one for myself.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=217486&d=1754950894

Next up here is getting the new supports for the rear diff since it has to be raised a couple inches. Once that's tacked in, I'll position engine to rear diff and get the needed mounts welded in.

Seats:
I found that while the Bride seats I had could work, the recline mechanism and extra width would compromise the seat position more than I wanted. Off to searching for another seat, this time more likely a fixed back.

Again using the scanner for harder contour and harder to scan surfaces while being useful to me, I visited 425 Motorsports in Kirkland, WA. Lots of seats on display (as well as steering wheels) to try like Goldilocks. The employees let me scan multiple seats to see what will fit with the request that I purchase from them since I'm using their shop for virtual testing.

I'm a big fan of the size and style of the Recaro Podium CFK but the price is really big too.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=217487&d=1754950894

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=217488&d=1754950894

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=217489&d=1754950894

Rear Suspension:
More in work but no worthy pictues to show at this point.

Front Differential and Driveshaft:
I'm on pause getting these set until I get the rest of the drivetrain in. The tilt of the front diff will 'fall in place' with clearance and final engine height.

Rear driveshaft (if you can call it that):
I looked for a while for a BMW style guibo but couldn't find one with the bolt pattern for our differentials. Onward to just machining a solid coupler which will also hold my driveline perfectly concentric. I took a lot of time to make sure the bore fit well on the transfer case and diff as well as the bolt patterns when assembled didn't pull things offset. Should keep the bearing life on the mating parts and not wear them prematurely.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=217490&d=1754950908

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=217491&d=1754950908


Hopefully the next update will be sooner. I'm still moving forward even if it's mentally creating and solving in my down time.

[Nigel Allen]

Great to see you back! Such an interesting project.

Cheers,

Nige

[JimStone]

Happy to see you're still plugging along

Wife and kids come first though, for sure. Congrats on the little ones

we all want to see an AWD coupe, so keep the updates coming!

[q4stix]

Thanks guys!

Jim, I saw your build update about a pause so I know you're trying to keep your priorities in order too. We'll both get there eventually!


In other happenings, I did work on another car, just not one I can fit in. Still gave me something to do and touch for 15 min at a time:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=217618&d=1755288279

It began its life as a free "Buy Nothing" post on Facebook. Since it was pink and dinged up, I 'was forced' to make some changes to get it ready for use.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=217616&d=1755288279

Can't have cheap, hard plastic wheels that sound super loud on the driveway. Again, completely necessary to design billet wheels with scooter tires that ended up costing me more in raw material than a new Cozy Coupe:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=217617&d=1755288279

Nearly complete and painted but usable, so we'll call it our test drive. I designed the spoiler to double as a handle so I don't have to bend down to push as needed. 3D printed twin turbos on front, updated 3D printed steering wheel I made (original horn squeaker installed and works), carbon look vinyl wrap on top:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=217615&d=1755288279

Built, not bought. Enjoy!

[q4stix]

Quick update: I've finished the placement of the rear diff for height and fwd/aft positioning. It's 2.6" higher than 'stock' and .56" aft.

The new parts are 12ga (.104" thick) mild steel that I'll weld into place using the original mounts as the locating and index features. Came to a whopping $150 from Send Cut Send with some duplicates for weld practice before I attach to the frame.

My plan is to tack weld the front plate to the new position bushing tubes. I'll then tack that to the frame. Next I'll put in aluminum solid 'bushings' to hold the back of the diff. Finally, I'll put the whole drive line in the car and verify the position, height, and angle everything sits at. Once done, I'll fully weld the rest of this rear mount, scan the final drive line relative to the car, and design and fab mounts for the engine, transmission, and transfer case to ensure they're fully supported and aligned.

I haven't set on what durometer bushings I'll use but I assume they'll need to be on the stiffer side with the flat plane crank and heavy and lengthy setup.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=220296&d=1760659966

[PNWTim]

I thought maybe we lost you after the sweet buggy project. Glad to see you are still chipping away at it!