power steering bleeding question

[wareaglescott]

I have the FFR power steering setup for my coyote.
Referencing the power steering instructions under the bleeding instructions it says:

Jack the front of the car up so the front wheels are off the ground and place on jack stands.
Fill the power steering fluid reservoir with fluid.
Turn the steering wheel slowly lock to lock.
Check the steering fluid level.
 Do not hold the steering wheel at full lock while bleeding the system.
Start the engine and turn the steering wheel lock-to-lock.
Lower the car off the jack stands


I was going to get the hoses and reservoir all hooked up. I am not ready to start the motor yet.
Should I just wait to put any fluid in there until I am ready for the first start or is it ok to do the first part now?
Any other useful guidance is appreciated. I am a total newbie to all this so every step along the way is pretty much first time for me!

[steno]

I could never run a pump dry that's meant to move fluids. Bad things will happen.

[wareaglescott]

I could never run a pump dry that's meant to move fluids. Bad things will happen.

I edited that. I did not initially phrase that how I meant to say it. I meant fill the fluid before the first start. Wasn't planning on running it dry. Thank you though. I was just wondering if there is any problem putting fluid in now and doing the first part about turning the wheel and then let it sit for a month or so until the first start?

[RickP]

I edited that. I did not initially phrase that how I meant to say it. I meant fill the fluid before the first start. Wasn't planning on running it dry. Thank you though. I was just wondering if there is any problem putting fluid in now and doing the first part about turning the wheel and then let it sit for a month or so until the first start?

I'm running a KRC pump and the included instructions are similar to FFR's. I don't think there is any other way to bleed a power steering rack. I don't think there is any harm in initially bleeding he system (prior to start) as you suggest. Just remember when you start the car, the rack will power up and you want to be sure the reservoir does not run dry or have no noticeable bubbles going on.

[edwardb]

Without the pump running, moving the wheel back and forth isn't going to do much for bleeding. At that point, it's just the mechanical portion of the rack doing the work without any hydraulic boost. But having fluid in there in advance doesn't hurt anything. I have the KRC setup on my new build. Their instructions said to prime the system before first start by removing the pulley and spinning with an electric drill. I did that, and it worked pretty well. With the cap on the reservoir open, it was pretty easy to see (and hear) once the system was primed and fluid was going through everywhere. But honestly I'm not positive that's needed. Other PS installations I just started it and moved the wheels back and forth a couple times and all was good. As stated, just don't start it without fluid and watch the fluid level the first time.

[boat737]

Hi Scott. Where did you get your PS hoses? My motor showed up and I'll be trying to stab it in in a month or so, and I don't have PS hoses. Any vendor here make pre-made hoses? I have a Breeze PS rack, and what looks to be the standard Ford pump (black thing with a big plastic filler tube.) I don't know enough about the different pumps to be sure. There is no fitting in what I believe to be the pressure port (on the side), and just a plain smooth hose barb on the lower rear of the pump ( the two red port covers).

[DaleG]

Do as the direction say. Turn the wheel to and fro, watch the liquid level in the reservoir, keep adding fluid as the bubbles emerge, until they stop appearing. This will prevent excess foaming when you start the car and ensure the reservoir won't run dry; that is the only reason for bleeding up front. Some reservoirs are pretty small, where running dry without first bleeding could be an issue. If your reservoir is large, then there should not be an issue with it running dry without bleeding first, just top it off after the foaming subsides.

[wareaglescott]

Hi Scott. Where did you get your PS hoses? My motor showed up and I'll be trying to stab it in in a month or so, and I don't have PS hoses. Any vendor here make pre-made hoses? I have a Breeze PS rack, and what looks to be the standard Ford pump (black thing with a big plastic filler tube.) I don't know enough about the different pumps to be sure. There is no fitting in what I believe to be the pressure port (on the side), and just a plain smooth hose barb on the lower rear of the pump ( the two red port covers).

Just about to update my build thread about that. I ordered the coyote power steering kit from FFR and it came with everything I needed including hoses. However I had all kinds of issues getting the supplied hoses to work as shown in the instructions. After 3 calls with two different techs at FFR they basically said just get them hooked up any way you can and bend them with your hands. Not real happy about my setup right now. Might have to re work it.

[Jeff Kleiner]

On my builds I chuck up a short piece of 3/8" hex to engage the pump and then use my hole hog drill to prime and leak check the system before first starts.

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj43/jkleiner/647214066111_0_BG.jpg

Drop the belt and spin the pump clockwise when viewed from the front. I have my "lovely assistant" Nancy (she likes it when I call her that ;)) turn the wheel lock to lock slowly while I spin the pump. Within a minute or two all of the air should bleed out. You can do it with the wheels on the ground or raised. With this done it's one less thing to be concerned with on the first start.

Good luck,
Jeff

[wareaglescott]

On my builds I chuck up a short piece of 3/8" hex to engage the pump and then use my hole hog drill to prime and leak check the system before first starts.

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj43/jkleiner/647214066111_0_BG.jpg

Drop the belt and spin the pump clockwise when viewed from the front. I have my "lovely assistant" Nancy (she likes it when I call her that ;)) turn the wheel lock to lock slowly while I spin the pump. Within a minute or two all of the air should bleed out. You can do it with the wheels on the ground or raised. With this done it's one less thing to be concerned with on the first start.

Good luck,
Jeff

Another rookie question but where is the air coming out from? No bleed valve like the brakes right?

[boat737]

On my builds I chuck up a short piece of 3/8" hex to engage the pump and then use my hole hog drill to prime and leak check the system before first starts.

Drop the belt and spin the pump clockwise when viewed from the front. I have my "lovely assistant" Nancy (she likes it when I call her that ;)) turn the wheel lock to lock slowly while I spin the pump. Within a minute or two all of the air should bleed out. You can do it with the wheels on the ground or raised. With this done it's one less thing to be concerned with on the first start.

Good luck,
Jeff

What PS fluid do you like? Does one stand out, or are they all pretty much alike? I hear good things about the Honda fluid...

[edwardb]

Another rookie question but where is the air coming out from? No bleed valve like the brakes right?

Nope, no bleeders. The air comes back into the reservoir through the return line. Bubbles turn to fluid pretty quickly with the pump running and turning the rack back and forth a couple times.

[billrfrank]

I have mk4 5.0 coyote.I hooked up power steering and bleed system but when I start the engine foamy fluid pumps out the reservoir until it is out of fluid. what am I doing wrong?

[wareaglescott]

I have mk4 5.0 coyote.I hooked up power steering and bleed system but when I start the engine foamy fluid pumps out the reservoir until it is out of fluid. what am I doing wrong?

What kind of fluid did you use? How much did you initially add?

[edwardb]

Sounds like it's hooked up wrong. Check the hose routing and connections.

[billrfrank]

What kind of fluid did you use? How much did you initially add?

used prestone filled 1/2

[CraigS]

While I have no Coyote experience I've worked on a lot of other PS systems. From my experiences; it's not really needed to pre-bleed before the engine start. Normally once started, the PS system will bleed itself so all one needs to do is keep the reservoir full. Normally the fluid level will drop from wherever it starts as the air bubbles bleed out so keep it about 1/2 full. The fluid will expand as it heats up so that's why I say 1/2 full for now. Once the engine is run, or the car is driven, long enough to heat the PS fluid, you can pay more attention to the exact fill level. I said it's not really needed to pre-bleed before engine start. On an existing system, just doing PS repairs, I never do. OTOH, on a new engine, I usually do. Having a nearly full PS system means one less thing to worry about while looking over the engine during those nervous first minutes running. BTW, over the last 6-7 years Honda PS fluid has gotten real good reviews. I started using it and it nearly fixed a hot running, lack of assist problem I was having so I have been using it since. This is in an old school system using a 91 mustang rack and a 99 explorer pump.

[2bking]

I have mk4 5.0 coyote.I hooked up power steering and bleed system but when I start the engine foamy fluid pumps out the reservoir until it is out of fluid. what am I doing wrong?
Foam indicates air being mixed with fluid and can happen with too much flow coming back to the reservoir like a water hose with a high velocity nozzle filling up a bucket. Like Edwardb said, incorrect plumbing such as wrong size hoses or wrong ports selected at the reservoir. I never seen what happens with the pump turning backwards but maybe that's a possibility also. Did you change or add a flow restrictor?