Oil not getting to driver side head

[bil1024]

So original stock 302, changed gaskets and oil pump. Passenger side getting oil, driver side not ? Thoughts ?

[Boydster]

First thought is a popped oil galley plug. Behind the timing cover. Either that or a blockage.

[ProJoe]

while running or cranking?

[first time builder]

IS this a "used engine or a rebuild? I agree about the galley plug but I thought that the drivers head side gets it oil last and from the rear of the engine but I could be wrong, hell my wife tells me Im always wrong.

[bil1024]

IS this a "used engine or a rebuild? I agree about the galley plug but I thought that the drivers head side gets it oil last and from the rear of the engine but I could be wrong, hell my wife tells me Im always wrong.


Same here, yes dear your right! Always;) Its a used engine, when I first started pulled off valve cover after a few min run there was oil on passenger side . None on driver. Just now after a few short runs, both driver side bone dry, passenger some oil. Put the drill on pump and no oil coming up anywhere. Think I may pull the oil pump and ck it out.

[bil1024]

Pulled oil filter for hahas and all milky white oil! Could that be the galley plug not being installed ?

[Jeff Kleiner]

White milky oil=water/coolant

Jeff

[bil1024]

White milky oil=water/coolant

Jeff

That's what I thought, great so never had this happen before what's the first step in looking for culprit? I was thinking of pulling heads and looking at the gaskets

[CraigS]

The head gaskets are #1 usual cause of milky oil but...could it cause a total lack of oil to one head? I don't know but hopefully someone else does. I just don't want you to pull heads etc and still have no oil to one head.

[AC Bill]

I'm wondering if you got the wrong gaskets for the engine, mis-packaged or whatever? Holes in all the wrong places?

[bil1024]

I'm wondering if you got the wrong gaskets for the engine, mis-packaged or whatever? Holes in all the wrong places?

They seemed to line up fine going to pull intake tonight

[Norm B]

The oil for the head comes up the pushrods from the lifters. Oil galleries feed oil to the lifter bosses in the block. The wrong head gaskets won't stop the oil coming up but may prevent it draining back down through the block. Head gaskets, cracked heads, intake manifold gaskets and timing cover gasket are the usual suspects for water in the oil. I supposed a cracked block could do it too but that would present other symptoms.

I would pull the timing cover first. Check the oil gallery plugs and the gasket area around the water pump ports into the block.

Good Luck

Norm

[bil1024]

Thanks Norm will do that

[Jeff Kleiner]

Before pulling anything apart pressure test the system to see if you can isolate where the coolant is escaping.

Jeff

[first time builder]

If there is a blown head gasket and its turning the oil milky maybe the oil pump is making foam and not pushing it thru the engine oil line properly.

Just a guess !!

Kenny

[Norm B]

Jeff is correct. Pressure test first. Maybe, as Kenny suggested, the coolant leak is the original problem. Oil and water mixed becomes very thick (like margarine) and won't flow into the pick up for the oil pump. Don't run the engine again until this problem is fixed and the oil is replaced. The bearings could be seriously damaged.

Norm

[bil1024]

All great suggestions guys, will start with pressure test, maybe Advanced loans one. Will keep you all updated

[AC Bill]

Before pulling anything apart pressure test the system to see if you can isolate where the coolant is escaping.Jeff

Presume you mean with a coolant system pressure tester?
I can understand seeing the gauge drop from pressure leaking somewhere in the coolant system, so you know there's an issue, but how could you isolate where it's leaking, say it's a head gasket, cracked block/head type scenerio? Wouldn't that only work if it was an external leak, IE water pump seal/gasket, coolant hose, or radiator type of thing?

[bil1024]

So pressure test showed nothing much looked to hold pressure so next step ? Also, when I ran the oil pump with filter removed all white milky oil came out of filter housing

[first time builder]

cooling system pressure test might not show up a leaking head gasket or worse a crack. With that milky oil I think you have to start a tear down.

Kenny

[CraigS]

cooling system pressure test might not show up a leaking head gasket or worse a crack. With that milky oil I think you have to start a tear down.

Kenny
Agreed, I have seen head gaskets cause oil leak into coolant, coolant into oil, leak only when hot, leak as the engine cools, coolant into combustion chamber. When you remove the head try your best to preserve the gasket so you can look for damage. Good luck. And don't forget, you seem to have two separate problems so there may be two causes.

[first time builder]

If the oil is that bad I would do a complete tear down and cleaning, That milky stuff tends to "hide" in all the small spots inside the engine and come back to bite you later.
Seen it happen a few times even after a flush. And don't forget to check radiator for oil contamination.
Kenny

[bil1024]

Ok, so update:

Drained coolant - green
Drained oil - green then beige colored oil
Removed pan and timing cover, I can not see a galley plug behind the cover?
Intake tomorrow

[NAZ]

Did you check behind the cam gear?

[JNC]

These plugs

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=58697&d=1474121690

[Jeff Kleiner]

Ok, so update:

Drained coolant - green
Drained oil - green then beige colored oil
Removed pan and timing cover, I can not see a galley plug behind the cover?
Intake tomorrow

You've seen enough. Antifreeze in the pan means that since you've run it and circulated it throughout it really should come totally apart--- #1) to find the source #2) because antifreeze will wipe out main and rod bearings in about the amount of time it takes to snap your fingers. A missing galley plug will result in virtually no oil pressure. Sorry...

Jeff

[bil1024]

These plugs

58683

Yep those plugs are there

[bil1024]

[QUOTE=Jeff Kleiner;250967]You've seen enough. Antifreeze in the pan means that since you've run it and circulated it throughout it really should come totally apart--- #1) to find the source #2) because antifreeze will wipe out main and rod bearings in about the amount of time it takes to snap your fingers. A missing galley plug will result in virtually no oil pressure. Sorry...

Jeff

Yeah getting that feeling

[bil1024]

So removed intake, pic from valley, wonder if coolant leaked under the gasket then drained into the pan ? Removing heads next

58699

[first time builder]

if intake wasn't drained completely, some anti freeze can wind up in lifter galley when you remove manifold. But look for signs of leaking past gasket.
Kenny

[Norm B]

You are looking at a complete tear down. The grey oil coolant mix coming out the top of the lifter in your picture means the engine is fully contaminated with the stuff.

Good Luck

Norm

[first time builder]

If you found green anti freeze in the oil pan before you removed intake or timming cover , you have a BIG leak.
Kenny

[Big Blocker]

As usual, I totally agree with Jeff. Time for a complete tear down of this block. No getting around that fact. ANY water (w/ antifreeze) in the oiling system and it's contaminated throughout. You can't just flush it with an oil change or two.
Water and antifreeze do not make for a good lubricant and will wipe out main and rod bearings in the blink of an eye.
Tear this engine down, look for obvious breaches in your gasket surfaces. SBF intake manifolds are notorious for improper installation and a major source of "water in the oil" condition, more so then head gaskets.
Good luck . . . keep us informed along the way during your rebuild.

Doc

[NAZ]

As many above have suggested, you really need to do a complete tear-down, complete cleaning, and inspection. The contamination will be in every area of the engine and you should plan to remove all oil gallery plugs and use a rifle cleaning kit to scrub these areas. If this is a low mileage or new engine and you plan to reuse wear items then the inspection should include checking bearing clearances. If reusing the cam and lifters you’ll want to ensure the lifters go back into the same position. Same with rod and main bearings. If this is a donor now is a good time to overhaul it as the amount of work you’re going to be doing is about the same as an overhaul.

[bil1024]

Removed head and water in the pistons, also saw a little damage on intake gasket near coolant port, not sure if that caused it587335873458735

[JNC]

I'm sure curious about your test results after seeing those pics...


So pressure test showed nothing much looked to hold pressure so next step ? Also, when I ran the oil pump with filter removed all white milky oil came out of filter housing

[first time builder]

I see blue rtv on intake rear surface , thats not factory so engine has at least had Intake off at one point. The antifreeze on the piston now is from removing the head. If there was antifreeze leaking into a clyinder that piston would be cleaner than the rest. The photo of the intake port is blurry and cant see anything. The good news is its now much lighter to pull it out of the car. You have to make a decision to rebuild this or go for another engine.
Kenny

[bil1024]

I'm sure curious about your test results after seeing those pics...

Test showed no leakage that's what's gotten me scratching my head

[bil1024]

I see blue rtv on intake rear surface , thats not factory so engine has at least had Intake off at one point. The antifreeze on the piston now is from removing the head. If there was antifreeze leaking into a clyinder that piston would be cleaner than the rest. The photo of the intake port is blurry and cant see anything. The good news is its now much lighter to pull it out of the car. You have to make a decision to rebuild this or go for another engine.
Kenny
Yep another pickle ! Thinking of picking up a 302 that's local and run ok and throw it in for now while I determine what happened. As soon as I pulled the head up a tad water come pouring out from the front end

[Norm B]

You fully drained the cooling system before disassembly and there's still that much coolant in the block? Somethings not quite right there. Was the drain on the block plugged?
If the block wasn't fully drained then I wouldn't make any assumptions based on the coolant in the cylinders or valley as it could have easily got there during the tear down. Very carefully inspect the head and intake gaskets.

Norm

[CraigS]

I see blue rtv on intake rear surface , thats not factory so engine has at least had Intake off at one point. The antifreeze on the piston now is from removing the head. If there was antifreeze leaking into a clyinder that piston would be cleaner than the rest.
Kenny
I agree, block wasn't drained sufficiently. Notice there is more coolant in the rear bores than front since the engine sits slightly nose high in the car. I can't see a problem w/ the head gasket but can you get a better shot of the intake gasket. A thought re; the lack of oil in one head. Get the other head off and then spin the pump w/ a drill (counterclockwise) and see where oil shows up around the lifters etc?

[bil1024]

There's a drain for the coolant on the block ? I did not know that, learn something new everyday

[bil1024]

So pulled the driver side head, here is another pic of the intake gasket. Wondering if its the culprit

PLan on engine this week and see what the bearings look like

[first time builder]

Any clean pistons on the other bank? Is the surface on intake corroded?

Kenny

[bil1024]

Driver side piston cylinders looked cleaner

[Big Blocker]

Post #35, second picture: lower left head bolt looks [suspiciously] rusted, like it never had the studs sealed - lower bolts go into water jacket and will leak coolant if not sealed.
Hard to tell exactly from the picture but . . . just another place to look at during your rebuild.

All that water/antifreeze in the valley and on top of your pistons came from NOT draining the block completely during tear down - that or you have an enormous hole in something.

FWIW, this engine has been torn apart before.

Doc

[bil1024]

Thanks Doc, yep had the heads and intake off to replace gaskets, so I may have screwed something up

[bil1024]

So update, got the engine out and pulled the cam, lifters were well oiled, no gouges or wear on cam bearings5890058901

[rich grsc]

The bearings are pressed in the block, your picture is just of the cam shaft journals. The bearing could be trash.

[bil1024]

Yep peaked in there with a flashlight hard to tell proboly see more when I pull the crank

[edwardb]

Just a hint from my experience... My first build I bought a 302 that was supposed to be in good condition. When it didn't hold oil pressure, we tore it down much like you're doing right now. There were some obvious issues, like the main bearings. But we thought everything else looked really good. Clean, bright, no obvious signs of wear, even still signs of cross-hatching in the bores. Bores, pistons, cam, cam bearings, lifters, pushrods, etc. all looked pretty good. Took it to a machine shop and found every single measurement was out of spec. We were able to bring it back, but took some work. Just saying don't judge anything without measuring. Appearance can be deceiving.

[Engine Factory]

Intake gaskets are famous for leaking if using cheaper ones and improper adhesive. We use Fel-Pro Gaskets with a steel core. Torque properly.

[first time builder]

Looked again at photo of intake manifold in post 35 and gasket photo in 43 I think that the intake manifold is the culprit and is corroded and not letting the gasket seal properly. Have a competent machine shop check it.
This could be the water in oil problem but we still don't know if thats what is causing the no oil to head problem. Did you install the head studs or were they on the motor when you got it?

Kenny

[Engine Factory]

Intake gaskets are famous for leaking if using cheaper ones and improper adhesive. We use Fel-Pro Gaskets with a steel core. Torque properly. Approx 20 lbs
The ethanol gas eats away on gaskets too over time. The steel core helps 1262S-3

[bil1024]

Looked again at photo of intake manifold in post 35 and gasket photo in 43 I think that the intake manifold is the culprit and is corroded and not letting the gasket seal properly. Have a competent machine shop check it.
This could be the water in oil problem but we still don't know if thats what is causing the no oil to head problem. Did you install the head studs or were they on the motor when you got it?

Kenny
They were in the head already

[bil1024]

Intake gaskets are famous for leaking if using cheaper ones and improper adhesive. We use Fel-Pro Gaskets with a steel core. Torque properly. Approx 20 lbs
The ethanol gas eats away on gaskets too over time. The steel core helps 1262S-3

Thanks Christian

[first time builder]

Like I said if you plan on reusing that intake manifold I would have it checked. I would also remove the studs and make sure that there is sealant on the threads in the block.
Kenny

[bil1024]

Thanks guys, tearing the block all the way down, replacing bearings and rings, etc.. Might as well right !