Question about Official Factory Five Registry

[Dave Smith]

Guys,

I have a question for any of you who choose to opine about this forum and the establishment of an Official Factory Five Registry. I studied the mess that happened at SAAC and all the crap they had to deal with, but the SAAC Registry really has been a great tool for protecting the investments of the original cars. I think an Official Factory Five Registry will protect FFR car values many years from now and establish an owners history and documentation for registraion purposes that might be more and more important as time goes by.

It seems to make sense to put an official company effort behind a large-scale Official Registry. I know that Ron S. has built a nice site at F5Registry.com and our efforts need to recognize the good work that others have already started. Still, trying to do this, while I think think we should work with Ron specifically, and others, I cant see this effort succeeding without a truly unified effort that begins with FFR. I cant see an "Official" registry ever being successful if it is outside the auspices of the records that FFR has (we have all manuf records, C of O's, etc).

I've also learned that the community has ideas and input that is absolute pure gold. Imagine the data richness that we could compile beyond simple serial numbers, photos, and manuf dates. Beyond car running gear, ownership history, car show awards, special notices, build-photos and logs, the list is endless and data storage is quite cheap to buy, but the Registry would be a HUGELY valuable resource for all FFR customers.

Without a full effort from the company, community, and owners, the registry seems to be destined to be partial at best.

I guess what I'm saying is that any Official Registry" will never be as dynamic and valuable if it does not include the feedback, contributions, and investigative help from the forum and FFR community with the foundation of the complete manufacturing records and database of FFR. We are getting an increasing number of requuests for information about cars we built 10 years ago when someone needs registration help or simple manufacturing records. This is only going to get bigger and every time we do this work it is not "saved" or catalogued in any helpful way.

There are some major changes that I would like to make to this site in the following weeks and months. High on the list is the full integration of Tech sections (build-wikis) with the most accurate tech info anywhere, and also the start of an Official Factory Five Registry".

What are your thoughts specifically about the Registry and also about anything else?

PS. Ron, I know I owe you a call and I figured the feedback here would help. Right after Open House!

[AC Bill]

Dave, I think a FFR Registry is a great idea!:)

It will be quite an undertaking initially, to get the information recorded, (with over 7000 roadsters having been sold).

How would you format it? Would you show the model # and frame number, with the original purchaser's name, and location listed? Would other factory information be included, such as if it had been ordered with the 3 link rear, engine mount points for the small block, etc?
If a car is sold, are you going to add the new owners names, (if available) so the owner registry is up to date? In some cases, cars have been sold and re-sold, so it may not be possible to get the current registered owner information any longer.

[Dave Smith]

I think we can construct a live document here on the forum with sections for all that information. The point being that the registry will be a work-in-process, but the first step would be to say go, then the next step, i would imagine, would be to outline the boiler plate for information and perhaps establish some clear charter for information disputes since accuracy should be the primary goal. I say that because I feel that accurate information makes the cars listed more valuable and traceable. Like the origin of this forum, where I was thinking long term, I think the registry will be something that will be sooo valuable ten years from now. The customer added content can be in a dedicated section. Perhaps if others feel this is the right direction for the forum, we could start by making a form-outline for the important data. Probably have to be a dedicated web page.

[AJ Roadster NJ]

Fantastic idea.

Given the volume of data, I would think that a one-off program that interrogates your existing system to build a 'shell' profile for each customer would be convenient. When a point can be defined where the shell profiles have been built for all existing customers, the existing FFR systems could be modified to automatically send the shell to the registry, wherever that is, for every new chassis sold.

Automating as much as possible isn't completely necessary, the volumes of data could be entered into the registry with a few weeks of temp help. The problem, of course, is that anytime someone prints data from one machine and reads that paper to enter data into another, bad things happen.

I love designing this kind of stuff, which is a good thing, because I make my living at it. :^) See you at the open house...

AJ

[David Hodgkins]

The user information page can be modified for the data, if that's where you want to have it input.

I have some more ideas regarding plugins but need to do some research first before bringing them forward.

:)

[RonSchofield]

Dave,

Thanks for bringing this up. You are correct when you say that the registry cannot succeed without the owners, the community and the company getting involved. When I started work on the registry, while the idea came from me, I reached out to Factory Five owner to get feedback and ideas. After I got idea, I developed the website. After making sure it worked as expected, I contacted Factory Five to bring it to your attention so the missing piece (your company) got involved.

I have never stopped getting feedback from others and have a list of additional feature that are going to be added to the registry. Some of those are change history of the cars and the ability for an owners history and making it easy for a vehicle to be moved from one owner to the next. These are just a couple of the ideas.

Ron Schofied

P.S. Looking forward to talking to you.

[RonSchofield]

Dave, I think a FFR Registry is a great idea!:)

How would you format it? Would you show the model # and frame number, with the original purchaser's name, and location listed? Would other factory information be included, such as if it had been ordered with the 3 link rear, engine mount points for the small block, etc?
If a car is sold, are you going to add the new owners names, (if available) so the owner registry is up to date? In some cases, cars have been sold and re-sold, so it may not be possible to get the current registered owner information any longer.

Bill,

This a link to the F5Registry website.

http://www.f5registry.com

It gives you an idea of what information is currently stored and displayed along with a google map version.

I have mapped out the design for owners history and will be implementing it along with other features if it becomes the registry of choice.

Ron

[RonSchofield]

The data can come from Factory Five at purchase time of the vehicle, after that it will be dependent on the owner to keep the information up to date. They are the ones who know when and how the vehicle is finished and if it has been sold, stolen, written off. This also brings me to another feature on the list is a "stolen" database so that there is someplace for a potential owner to go to see if the car they are purchasing has been stolen.

I built the registry website with the help of many current Factory Five owners and getting feedback and ideas is very important to me. An example is before I made the google map, I wanted feedback about what the comfort level is for having the vehicles on the map. The comfort level is limited to the city/town. The pins on the map do not go any farther than that so no one can track a vehicle to a street. I have security in mind when I develop these things.

Ron Schofield

[AJ Roadster NJ]

There are only a handful of cars on F5registry. For whatever reason, hardly anyone is using it.

There is far more info -- about 1400 cars -- listed in a thread in the old ffcars forum. I don't feel comfortable linking there from here, but if you go there and search on 'the unofficial ffr registry' you'll see it right away.

The bad news is that because each owner (myself included) had a free-form text box to work with, the data will have to be manually reviewed if it is to go into a true registry 'of record.'

[Dave Smith]

AJ, Great points, although if the registry truly adds value to the cars and the boiler-plate makes it easy to add information in the correct manner, then guys will do it readily and accurately.

Ron, We can talk after Open House. The truth is that the integrity of the data (SAAC and especially Rick Kopec, did an OUTSTANDING job of this for a long time before they were sued and Shel took the registry over) is paramount to the value of the cars.

There is probably no way that we can house the data in a non-ffr source, and the reason why the SAAC regisstry was printed was to prevent theft of data so there are a million considerations.

The difference is that we have a ton of really smart guys and can build on that strong foundation a registry that is a powerful tool for keeping records of these amazing cars.

I look forward to speaking with you and hearing others ideas on this important subject. Please dont take this the wrong way as I know you have done alot of work on your registry and I cant imagine this program being successful without your help and integration, still I dont think it would be wise to invest a huge amount of resources in this without having at least partially under FFR's control from a legal and accuracy standpoint. I can imagine this is sensitive for you as you have already worked on it. I respect that and wanted to open the conversation in a candid and honest way.

[Gumball]

I think this is a great idea. I've been an active follower of FFR since 2003 and purchased my Mk3.1 in late 2009. I'm on numerous forums related to these cars daily, but was never aware of the F5Registry site (sorry Ron). I agree with Dave that there are many reasons why FFR should be directly involved in this and I think that they could do a tremendous service to those of us who own these cars by developing a robust listing of the history of their products.

[RonSchofield]

There are only a handful of cars on F5registry. For whatever reason, hardly anyone is using it.

The F5Registry website being used but then the previous owner of the other website banned me and the website. It's hard to use something that can't be spoken about in the community. Searching the unofficial ffr registry on the other website is crude and ineffective.

[Someday I Suppose]

Dave, I think it makes great sense to have a registry in house managed and run by FFR, I'd love to see improved search capabilities and filter functions, as opposed to just an open search field. There are so many ways it could go, great fun and exciting for sure.

-Scott

[KERMIT1]

Just added KERMIT

[RonSchofield]

The way that F5Registry is built, there is no problem in having the data hosted on a Factory Five server so it is internal. I rather have Factory Five concentrating on building and designing kit cars rather than doing website programming. I am an IT Manager for a large company and write their software. Why not use the resources the community provides?

What I am suggesting is that Factory Five host the data, I host and develop the front end in conjunction of Factory Five.

Ron Schofield

[Dave Smith]

My only concern is that the ownership of the data and therefore the accuracy be maintained by FFR since I have seen forums go south and websites get sold, I don't want the efforts to be spent without security for years to come. Ron, I want to talk about the structure and hear what others ideas are on this point. There is a possibility (even likelihood) that we can work together, but what I am proposing would involve much more than your current site ands the ownership would have to be FFR to prevent what happened with the other forum. We can compensaate you for work as you are obviously talented and Im sorry if this post is not sensitive to your past work, you know I respect you and mentioned that right up front. We (ffr) provided a huge amount of support to that forum that few were aware of.

What other ideas do you guys have and perhaps we should start an outline of critical information to be used, thinking about what is important 15 years from now. I like the many options that tech provides, like an owners log book, searchable databases, verified serial numbers and manuf history, stolen cars database, etc etc.

[doughboy]

I love the idea. I think once there is an "offical FFR registry" it would grow as it is promoted. I think even those cars which have changed hands would most likely find there way into the registry over time. I would hope engine size and options could be included at some point. I can see how it would help with values of FFR cars down the line. That's my two cents.

[RonSchofield]

Dave,

The F5Registry can work with the data owned by Factory Five in a host of your choosing and Factory Five would have complete security over that data in the form of backups. When we talk I can explain how all this gets put together so a full featured website can be created with data owned by Factory Five.

Some other ideas:

"Proximity Circle" for google maps. This would allow you to use the google map to show you other owners around where you. This could be at home or on the road. If you are visiting somewhere, you could click on someone car pin and send a PM to that person. You could tell them you are in the area and would like to meet.

PDF Publication. The ability to make a printable copy of the registry. Prints the vehicle history, photos and information into a PDF. Options would be there to print all vehicles, selected models, or a single car.

These are just a couple. I am looking forward to hearing comments and suggestions from others on their ideas for the registry.

Ron Schofield

[RonSchofield]

I love the idea. I think once there is an "offical FFR registry" it would grow as it is promoted. I think even those cars which have changed hands would most likely find there way into the registry over time. I would hope engine size and options could be included at some point. I can see how it would help with values of FFR cars down the line. That's my two cents.

Here is an example of a vehicle as listed in the current F5Registry website.

F5R1000296CP (http://www.f5registry.com/modules/autoregistry/index.php?op=show_one&auto_id=1)

Of course I had to pick mine. ;) You can see that there is quite a few details in there already.

[Dave Smith]

I am not talking about the data, but the actual website ownership, the designs, the registry in its entirety. Lets continue this conversation over the phone between you and I after open house, as it is my sincere desire to work with you, BUT this thread was started with the idea of creating an all-new and Official FFR Registry, I didnt want to simply modify yours and leave the biggest peice of the puzzle unanswered, and that is that the registry must be owned by FFR because it would be unwise to commit the resources needed to ensure it is run right, and isn't sold down the road.

I firmly believe you have a good start, but lets not use this post as a way to discuss or drive traffic to your site before folks have had a chance to think about this idea and question I proposed. Also before we've answered the very questions of the design, future, use, and the entire realm of possibilities, taking a lesson from SAAC and what they did right vs. what they did wrong.

[RonSchofield]

I have no problems with FFR's ownership. I am also not trying to drive traffic to my site, just trying to get the community to see what a web based registry would look like.

Waiting for your call.

[David Hodgkins]

Dave,

I believe that the creation and maintenance of the registry can be accomplished with the use of ad-ons designed to plug into this forum software.

For example, there is a free add-on that allows you to design a custom input form to submit data to the db, pm, email, and/or NEW THREAD.

You could have sub forums, one for each model of car, and then create a customized form for each, and have those results post to a new thread. The form could have a drop down with every official chassis number, and once that chassis number is submitted, it no longer shows up as a selection. That way you get only one thread per car.

Leave the thread open so people who have seen the car can post pics or stories about it. I'm sure we could have a flag for stolen cars, if that is desired.

The data can also be aggregated and displayed in a variety of formats. How many Grey MKI's for example.

I've seen other add-ons that are nice galleries that I'm sure could be used to display all the images in each registry forum too.

Just as an FYI, I also build websites for some of the biggest companies in the world. A financial site I built processed over 3 billion dollars in payments for the largest Bank in(of) America ;) a year, for example. And I'm positive I'm not the only guy here who can produce a website. But I've been around them long enough to know that sometimes utilizing prebuilt widgets gets you 90-95% of all the features you are looking for and you don't have to do a lick of custom coding to do it. There is a whole industry of developers creating add-ons for the forum software this site uses. Why not use what is freely available?

:)

[mrmustang]

AJ, The truth is that the integrity of the data (SAAC and especially Rick Kopec, did an OUTSTANDING job of this for a long time before they were sued and Shel took the registry over) is paramount to the value of the cars.

Dave,

For the record, SAAC is not held,nor run by C. Shel,Shel Enterprises, or SAI. SAAC is owned,operated, run by Rick Kopec, Howard Pardee, and a large number of volunteers (Registrars, researchers, Ad-Masters, web administrators, etc)to numerous to mention.

As far as having an owners registry, I'm all for it. However, given the nature of the FFR's and some rather quick turn overs,having an accurate database/registry may be next to impossible. Especially since cars not only change hands,but get modified to some extent by each new owner to suit their tastes. If FFR had a unified VIN stamped into their chassis from the beginning, then ownership records and tracking would have been simplified. Seeing this is not the case, and in quite a few cases FFR chassis numbers fall by the wayside (state issued VIN's,donor VIN's, vintage VIN's etc),it will be a daunting task to say the least.



Sincerely,

Bill S.
SAAC National AdMaster

PS: Since going online with saacforum and saac membershiplodge, I'd love to know what you believe SAAC "did wrong". As an organization not in bed with a manufacturer (not being tied to Shel where he could rewrite the history of a car or participant for his own purposes), run mostly by volunteers, I'd say after SAAC 36 that it's done a heck of a job for the Marque..........Especially considering when the club was started the Shel B was considered just another used car...It was not money and net worth of a particular vehicle that drove the club, it is still that way today when the cars are worth a small fortune.......Ownership is not necessary, only the enthusiasm is.

[David Hodgkins]

Bill,

Good point about the VIN, but weren't all frames stamped with a unique number? I know between MKII and MKIII's some of the last 4 digits were reused but I thought the number as a whole is unique?

:)

[RonSchofield]

Dave,

I believe that the creation and maintenance of the registry can be accomplished with the use of ad-ons designed to plug into this forum software.

For example, there is a free add-on that allows you to design a custom input form to submit data to the db, pm, email, and/or NEW THREAD.



David,

I have seen what happens when you try to hack together all kinds of unrelated plug ins to try and get what you want to accomplish. You end up with an unrelated mess and loose the seamless functionality that you are looking for. vBulletin was and is designed to be a forum website. It was never designed to be a CMS (Content Management System) like Drupal, Joomla or XOOPS. The reason that I wrote the registry module was because it was painful and time consuming to try to get something to work in pieces that were never designed to work together. I have spent my entire career developing software to know what works and what doesn't. You need to start with the correct framework to do the right job.

Let's do this the right way and get the best registry possible.

[mrmustang]

Bill,

Good point about the VIN, but weren't all frames stamped with a unique number? I know between MKII and MKIII's some of the last 4 digits were reused but I thought the number as a whole is unique?

:)

David,

Unique numbers were welded in the cross tube, but stamping a VIN (aka: Unique number) directly from FFR did not occur (I believe) until they started with 17 digit VIN's on their MSO/MCO's.Again, the lack of uniformity is going to be the downfall of a FFR (owned and operated) car/chassis registry. I'll say it so Dave and everyone else can read it....If you want a registry to succeed, then the manufacturer must step aside and allow one to be independently run so as not to fallinto the same mistake the ole Shel attempted to do with rewriting history (SAAC stopped this from happening and got sued in the process).........I am not saying that would happen in FFR/Dave Smith decided to start a registry,but who is to say what could happen years down the road (again,just like what happened with Shel vs SAAC)......


Bill S.

Bill S.

[David Hodgkins]

Ron,

Funny that you mention CMS, because this forum software HAS an integrated CMS componant. Take a look at the Wikis, and the front page.

The plugins I'm advocating aren't "hacks", they are supported plugins. We've been utilizing more than a few of these since the site started. Some plugins are quite robust, and are designed from the start to work with this software. For example, we don't have to come up with a custom blog componant, because it's designed from the start to work with the software. There's even a nice mobile version of the software that drops right in, so we don't have to write custom software for that either.

Bill,

CS never attempted to create a registry. He didn't have the passion for his cars the way Dave does for his. Don't forget, CS walked away from his cars. It wasn't until much later that he realized that there were people passionate about them. The SAAC was created because someone (I believe it was Kopec?) ran across a bunch of paperwork gathering dust and asked ol' Shel for it so they could create their own registry. It wasn't ever ******'s idea.

So it's apples and oranges. And besides, it's not as if DS is going to sit in front of a computer and create the thing himself. He's reaching out to the community to discuss the best way to come up with the official Registry. And IMO he's in the best position to do it because he has ALL the original paperwork. Who better to put that info online? Of course there has been changeover since the cars were originally sold. But who has better info to work from as a starting point?

:)

[mrmustang]

Bill,

CS never attempted to create a registry.

Would you like a link to it? I'd hate to put it here, but even today, after the dust has settled, he still has it live and online as a "Shel B unified registry". One that is not 100% accurate as to the facts, but put together with something else ($$$$$$) in mind. Again, Dave Smith is not C.S., never said he was, just stated my thoughts and opinions based on more than you could imagine.....

Bill S.

[RonSchofield]

Ron,

Funny that you mention CMS, because this forum software HAS an integrated CMS componant. Take a look at the Wikis, and the front page.

The plugins I'm advocating aren't "hacks", they are supported plugins. We've been utilizing more than a few of these since the site started. Some plugins are quite robust, and are designed from the start to work with this software. For example, we don't have to come up with a custom blog componant, because it's designed from the start to work with the software. There's even a nice mobile version of the software that drops right in, so we don't have to write custom software for that either.



David,

But the fact is that there isn't an auto registry plug in that exists for this forum software so it will have to be put together with unrelated plugins. A unified solution is the best because it will be the users who will have to update the registry with their information and if they don't have a single spot the manage their car(s), it might prevent the registry from succeeding. So to make a unified registry feature with administration, you will have to develop something. It doesn't make sense to reinvent the wheel.

Have you ever developed a plugin for vBulletin? Curious how much time it would take for developing it.

The goal is to have something that is simple for the car owners and easy to use and administer. I want this registry to be successful in whatever form it takes but it should be done properly.

[Dave Smith]

With respect to SAAC. Rick Kopec, Howard and the other guy all visited FFR when they were being SUED by CS. SAAC gave up the valuable shel Registry under a legal agreement that Kopec signed under duress. I know more about the CS litigations than just about anyone on the planet and I was only mentioning SAAC as an example of the Registry, not that they specifically did anything wrong. No issue here Bill and frankly, if it wasnt for Shel, we would have probably worked and had tons more fun with SAAC at events and such over the years and I hope we do going forward.

With respect to the serial numbers, these went from welded on id's to stamped frame serial numbers that ALL correspond to the manufacturing records and C of O's here at FFR so it is not as daughting a task as you would imagine. Plus we have all the original documentation and provide this tracking and ID service every day it seems, so making this part of an official record will only help the value of FFR's out there.

Trust me, the authentification of 1960's Mustangs where VIN records where LOST by Ford, and now 40 years have gone by, and now there is a huge profit incentive for mis-ID'd cars, and now CS in in charge of the data (!) not SAAC... THAT is a much bigger problem than what we face with our records that are all intact, that are all recent and accurate manufacturing and ownership records, better data tracking, etc. All I'm saying is that it can be done. It will never be perfect, but the shel registry was simply mentioned as an example and used to be the most reliable place and Kopec's work exposed alot of fraud and other nonsense... Still, sorry to bring SAAC into the conversation as they are not germane to this post at all, I was just trying to give some reference as to the value and challenges of an Official Registry.

[Dave Smith]

This post shows also how deep the talent pool is in the FFR community and IF we can harness this and provide a good framework, we can build (i think) a really greta tool for FFR owners to be able to track, ID and reference a great database of these great cars many years down the road.

Bill, the point about outside vs inside ownership is a good one and a worthy debate cause I can see both sides. I think my opinion swings to the FFR side due to the data being here and there being NO profit incentive for us to do anything other than get it right (there is no Replica FFR industry, at least not yet!).

Still, all really good points to consider. I am slammed with open house and will resume this conversation next monday, but would love any feedback.

[Martin]

This sounds like a great idea. I think it would be useful but it shouldn't be a repository for static content only. By that I mean how will it handle changes of ownership? How will FFR deal with the overhead/burden of changing owners? Ideally, the owners will "own" their data. So if I build my Roadster and add a bunch of information into it with photos, etc. you start to create the build history, and when finished, the service history. But if I then sell the car, the new owner will probably want to read all about it, the old content/history needs to be locked down and the new owner can then continue the story of their FFR.

I agree with Ron - if you are going to do this, do it right. But if I was Dave, I'd want to own it as well and keep control of it, even if each cars data is owned by the car owner but controlled by FFR.

Do it right, and there is no reason why the start up cost of building up a registry like this couldn't be sold as a service to other makers to recover the initial investment costs.

That's what I think with my "I'm a customer I'd love yet another free service from my supplier" hat on.

With my business hat on, anything you give away for free needs to be done free or as cheaply as possible. Or it needs to create real value in other ways. If the registry helps the resale value of the FFR cars so Dave can maintain his prices or even raise them a bit, then it makes sense. If it differentiates FFR in the market (even more) as the only manufacturer that can do this - maybe that creates value and in that case, you wouldn't want to sell it as a service to other manufacturers of kit cars/mustang owners/rare collectible car owners etc.

Martin

[Someday I Suppose]

Dave, daunting is getting everyone on the same page :-)

I think you have a vision already for this thing, and to me I think it could be really slick. I love the idea of there being 12 - 15 maybe more basic data points so that people can search not only about a specific car, but also search all MK III's completed in 2008, or all MKIV's with Coyote engines , etc. To me that is where something like this gives you more power is that ability to filter and search up, down, across, and diagonally.

-Scott

[RonSchofield]

Dave, daunting is getting everyone on the same page :-)

I think you have a vision already for this thing, and to me I think it could be really slick. I love the idea of there being 12 - 15 maybe more basic data points so that people can search not only about a specific car, but also search all MK III's completed in 2008, or all MKIV's with Coyote engines , etc. To me that is where something like this gives you more power is that ability to filter and search up, down, across, and diagonally.

-Scott

Scott,

That type of searching what is available in the F5Registry. ie seach for "Coupe 3.73 EFI". And there is no reason to limit the search to 12 or 15.

Ron

[computerworks]

With respect to SAAC. Rick Kopec, Howard and the other guy all visited FFR when they were being SUED by CS. SAAC gave up the valuable shel Registry under a legal agreement that Kopec signed under duress....

... and now CS in in charge of the data (!) not SAAC... .

Dave...just to set the record straight, some of your assumptions about the SAAC Registry are not correct.

SAAC did not "give up" the Registry or its data; the team of Registrars at SAAC have been and still are the worldwide registration authority for the vintage cars made by Schelbee American.

Nothing was given up, and there was no duress in the settlement process.

Don't mean to sidetrack the thread, but it important to make that point clear.

I would be glad to talk offline and discuss the trials and tribulations of running a Registry. :)

ron
SAAC National Director

[Dave Smith]

Ron, Thanks for the input on SAAC and welcome to the Factory Five Forum! I had heard this firsthand and am glad for the correction. I simply used the fact that Shel sued SAAC (a fact) to illustrate how great work (the registry) can be led astray and as we contemplate our own registry we can perhaps learn from others mistakes.

It is nice to hear that all is well with SAAC and that the settlement with Shel was different than I had been told by parties close to the matter. Someone brought up a very valid point about "trusting" the entity that operates the Registry. I think FFR should have a supporting role and perhaps an ownership role, but since our community defines us I can't imagine doing something this important unilaterally.

And as long as I'm communicating officially with anyone related to Shel, "Factory Five Racing, Inc. does not use the word COBRA to market our products and we are in NO WAY associated with Shelbee!"

[Someday I Suppose]

Ron, that is pretty cool, just playing with it some. Is it searching metadata then?

I guess I was thinking more along the lines of a form view that let you narrow by specific fields of data. I think the open search is very cool, but in some ways less intuitive, as in you have to know what your looking for as opposed to clicking through the options if that makes any sense.




Scott,

That type of searching what is available in the F5Registry. ie seach for "Coupe 3.73 EFI". And there is no reason to limit the search to 12 or 15.

Ron

[RonSchofield]

Ron, that is pretty cool, just playing with it some. Is it searching metadata then?

I guess I was thinking more along the lines of a form view that let you narrow by specific fields of data. I think the open search is very cool, but in some ways less intuitive, as in you have to know what your looking for as opposed to clicking through the options if that makes any sense.

It's doing the search of the database fields. I can add or fine tune the design of the search easily if new field data is added.

The problem is that with a form, you would have to limit the choices in the form to certain values. Of course we know that builders of the kits think outside the box. ;) People are used to open searching thanks to google.

Ron

[BLTFRDTUF]

Dave, When are you going to write a book about all of this, we all would love to know what you know.
Thanks for being so connected with your customers. That isnt the case so much now-a-days.

[Someday I Suppose]

Ron, I think that is always the trick right, making it so that some of the data is locked down, while other fields are wide open. Certain fields I think should be pick list style to prevent spelling errors or differences returning poor search results. 351W, 351 Windsor, 351 SBF, etc.

You're right people are used to google style searches, but from a data integrity and search accuracy point of view I think a list of values type of search is more accurate.

Either way I think it's an exciting project :-)


It's doing the search of the database fields. I can add or fine tune the design of the search easily if new field data is added.

The problem is that with a form, you would have to limit the choices in the form to certain values. Of course we know that builders of the kits think outside the box. ;) People are used to open searching thanks to google.

Ron

[RonSchofield]

Ron, I think that is always the trick right, making it so that some of the data is locked down, while other fields are wide open. Certain fields I think should be pick list style to prevent spelling errors or differences returning poor search results. 351W, 351 Windsor, 351 SBF, etc.

You're right people are used to google style searches, but from a data integrity and search accuracy point of view I think a list of values type of search is more accurate.

Either way I think it's an exciting project :-)

What fields do you think should be locked down? I can tell you that there will be one builder who has something you/we haven't though of. The only thing that we can guarantee is the model of the kit. ;) Should be include Anderson Performance 408 and Levy T-5 Trans to the pick lists. LOL

[mrmustang]

What fields do you think should be locked down? I can tell you that there will be one builder who has something you/we haven't though of. The only thing that we can guarantee is the model of the kit. ;) Should be include Anderson Performance 408 and Levy T-5 Trans to the pick lists. LOL

Fields should not be complicated, drop downs are useless with all of the permutations that are out there. Keep it simple:

FFR chassis number
Donor package
Non donor package
Complete package
Rear Suspension configuration
Interior color
Exterior color
Wheels/Tires (IE: 4lug, 5 lug, knockoffs)

You could then have an open box similar to this one where the builder/current owner can list how the car is currently configured (IE: motor, transmission, wipers, heater, radio, flux capacitor, etc).Keeping that data free of commercialism (IE: Gordon Levy built T5, or Breeze brake pack, etc) and configured just for the facts are important to a clean database (IE: 351/385 crate motor, Tremec TKO 5spd, 3:55 rear gearing, wipers, heater, top, 1,000,000 gigawatt flux capacitor to power the stereo, etc).


Again, gathering data is one thing, being able to sort it (or even decide what is and what is not relevant) into something usable is another.....

Finally, what do you do about people like myself who purchase unfinished (or poorly finished) FFR's and rebuild them (color changes, suspension changes, brake changes,drivetrain changes do occur)? Do we add another category for this? Again,my vote is no, with the mindset to keep it simple........Sometimes the simplest solutions are the best, especially when you are attempting to administrate the datebase you are building.


Bill S.

[PaulW]

I surely don't know the ins and outs of the design of a registry or anything that has come before so for me it is a simple........Yes I would love to see a registry established through Factory Five.

[RonSchofield]

Fields should not be complicated, drop downs are useless with all of the permutations that are out there. Keep it simple:

FFR chassis number
Donor package
Non donor package
Complete package
Rear Suspension configuration
Interior color
Exterior color
Wheels/Tires (IE: 4lug, 5 lug, knockoffs)

You could then have an open box similar to this one where the builder/current owner can list how the car is currently configured (IE: motor, transmission, wipers, heater, radio, flux capacitor, etc).Keeping that data free of commercialism (IE: Gordon Levy built T5, or Breeze brake pack, etc) and configured just for the facts are important to a clean database (IE: 351/385 crate motor, Tremec TKO 5spd, 3:55 rear gearing, wipers, heater, top, 1,000,000 gigawatt flux capacitor to power the stereo, etc).


Again, gathering data is one thing, being able to sort it (or even decide what is and what is not relevant) into something usable is another.....

Finally, what do you do about people like myself who purchase unfinished (or poorly finished) FFR's and rebuild them (color changes, suspension changes, brake changes,drivetrain changes do occur)? Do we add another category for this? Again,my vote is no, with the mindset to keep it simple........Sometimes the simplest solutions are the best, especially when you are attempting to administrate the datebase you are building.


Bill S.

Bill,

Yes. Drop downs either in the entry form or the search form are pretty much useless with all the customization and choices us Factory Five builder make. Have you seen the options that I have chosen for the F5Registry? They pretty much cover it.

As for changes. I have designed on paper a way to track all the changes that are done for a vehicle. It would cover change of ownership as well as engine upgrades and any other information that is changed. You would be able to look at the history for each vehicle.

I am not worried about the database design. I do that for a living. My goal is for the user to administer the data as they are the ones who knows what happens to a vehicle. An with any good software/database design, the program should make the administration automatic or very easy. An example of this is the google map component of the F5Registry. If a user moves to another city,state/province or country, when they change their information, the google map pin automatically moves with them. This is an example of having good code which is designed for the task to handle the administration of the data. The data that we are storing is small compared to what I deal with on a daily basis, I have to deal with hundreds of table of data consisting of tens of thousands of fields and write software that makes it very simple for the users.

[prophet]

I really need to update since my car wasn't done when I first filed it. I'll take care of that.

- Rick

[Someday I Suppose]

Ron, I suppose it depends on the objective of the registry, is it to capture as much information as possible about the cars, then go free form and I'll put in Anderson 408.

If it's to make data available on the cars and searchable, then you make the point for me on not having it locked down. What fields should be what, I haven't the foggiest, just trying to add thoughts and an opinion from my experience in data and allowing fields to be open.

All the best

-Scott

[trublue]

Dave,
I started a new thread before I found yours. I am 100% in favor of the Registry. My only concern is what will happen to it if FFR is sold or dissolved? If some provision for perpetuity can be made, that would be very reassuring. I would also like the Registry to provide a Certificate of Authenticity for the cars, like SVT does for their specialty models. Interested owners could pay for this document.
Thanks for your constant striving for us.
Art