Rivet supplier

[Jstanding]

Sending all panels off to powder coater today. While they are gone i need to get my hands on some black rivets. Not knowing much about rivets yet i was wondering if anyone knew of a good supplier of quality rivets in black . I have seen them at Lowes and HD but want to make sure i am using a good quality product.... suggestions??? Thanks in advance

[CraigS]

http://www.mcmaster.com/#rivets/=13v2xs3

[edwardb]

I've gotten rivets from Summit Racing and also McMaster. Both have a wide selection, including black, good quality, and both ship almost instantly. I especially like the Ultimate Rivets from Summit.

[Gumball]

On the advice of a friend who restores and maintains vintage race cars and another who works on aircraft, I put the FFR-supplied rivets in a drawer and ordered Avex rivets from Crawford Products in Ohio. These pull in a very nice uniform fashion, break clean down inside the rivet, and have a very nice appearance on the top.

http://www.crawfordproducts.com/avex.htm

[Hugues]

One question, from a newbie,
never worked with rivets,
i don't like to find them when i'm dismantling a system,
i thought screws are easier to remove and put back.

What are the advantages of rivets versus screws to fix the FFR panels ?
I'm almost sure i will have to remove a panel or two because i forgot this or that.

I would like to understand why we do things a certain way.

[Jazzman]

I am sure there are other advantages, but the primary one is that screws have a bad habit of unscrewing on their own, where as rivets do not have that concern. These cars can vibrate, some a lot, and screws will tend to come loose. This is why we loctite bolts and use locking nuts or lockwashers. You certainly don't want things falling off at just the wrong time!

[GoDadGo]

Jay-Cee Sales - RivetsOnline.com

They sell every kind of rivet, rivet nuts and thread inserts.

You can get them in every material type, including stainless steel.

[edwardb]

One question, from a newbie,
never worked with rivets,
i don't like to find them when i'm dismantling a system,
i thought screws are easier to remove and put back.

What are the advantages of rivets versus screws to fix the FFR panels ?
I'm almost sure i will have to remove a panel or two because i forgot this or that.

I would like to understand why we do things a certain way.

Once the build is done, there are very few panels you would typically need to remove given their location, covered with carpet, etc. Pop rivets are quick, easy, and strong method to assemble the sheet metal. Also, the strength of the joints is a combination of rivets and adhesive. Whether you use silicone as the directions suggest or some other product, once it dries it's very difficult to get the panels apart without damaging them. Even once the rivets are drilled out. Ask me how I know. So screws without adhesive would be giving up considerable strength IMO, and potentially allow squeaks, rattles, etc.

During the build, use clecos to hold panels in place as long as you can, and when ready, go ahead with the rivet and adhesive. That way things stay open as much as possible during the build. Clecos are preferrable to screws for temporary assembly because they don't enlarge the holes, do any damage to the sheet metal, etc. There are a handful of pieces that don't get permanently attached, like the access cover on the DS footbox, the splashguards (at least don't use adhesive), and the front radiator surround. I think that's all of them.

[Hugues]

Once the build is done, there are very few panels you would typically need to remove given their location, covered with carpet, etc. Pop rivets are quick, easy, and strong method to assemble the sheet metal. Also, the strength of the joints is a combination of rivets and adhesive. Whether you use silicone as the directions suggest or some other product, once it dries it's very difficult to get the panels apart without damaging them. Even once the rivets are drilled out. Ask me how I know. So screws without adhesive would be giving up considerable strength IMO, and potentially allow squeaks, rattles, etc.

During the build, use clecos to hold panels in place as long as you can, and when ready, go ahead with the rivet and adhesive. That way things stay open as much as possible during the build. Clecos are preferrable to screws for temporary assembly because they don't enlarge the holes, do any damage to the sheet metal, etc. There are a handful of pieces that don't get permanently attached, like the access cover on the DS footbox, the splashguards (at least don't use adhesive), and the front radiator surround. I think that's all of them.

Thanks Ed and Jazzman, i better understand now.

I did not know about Clecos. Short demo here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgEIVUVLrnQ

But they are pretty long, don't they get in the way sometimes when you make a dry fit ? They must have shorter versions no ?

[CraigS]

Clecos are sure nice but each time I think about the investment needed, I just go back to a few rivets. If you actually rivet every 3rd or 4th hole, they are easy to drill out to remove the panel. BTW always drill all the holes for a panel before you use silicone. If not, the debris from the hole in the underneath piece works it's way between it and the aluminum, so you don't have a good tight fit.

[silver_pilate]

Thanks Ed and Jazzman, i better understand now.

I did not know about Clecos. Short demo here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgEIVUVLrnQ

But they are pretty long, don't they get in the way sometimes when you make a dry fit ? They must have shorter versions no ?

The length is actually a good thing as you need room to be able to get the head of a riveting tool in there anyway. Even so, there are a few places where you might drill and hole only to find out that it's too tight of a fit to get the head of the riveting tool aligned. I love clecos. Remember, you don't have to cleco every hole. If I'm drilling a line of rivet holes from one side of the panel to the other, I'll keep a cleco at the corner and then leap frog two clecos down the line as you drill. This helps keep the panels flat together as you go, avoiding any bowing. Utlimately, you may only need 2-3 clecos to hold any given panel in place. I think I have around 30 clecos and it's been enough.

--Nathan

[wareaglescott]

I came into my build knowing nothing about rivets or clecos. I quickly learned it is extremely easy to drill out a rivet and clecos are great. i got about 50 of them and they have been awesome.
I got some black rivets from summit. Very happy with them.

[edwardb]

As Nathan said, length isn't an issue. Use them where they fit. But great point -- if you can't fit a cleco you're not going to fit a riveting tool. Part of the layout when drilling for the rivets is making sure you're putting them where you can reach them. I enjoy working with clecos. They allow rapid assembly and dissasembly with perfect alignment and no damage to the parts, and I typically take things apart and put them back together multiple times. Just how I work. Couldn't imagine using anything else. At less than $1 each for decent ones (I like Aircraft Spruce) 25 to 50 of them is one of the cheaper tools for the build.

[Jeff Kleiner]

I've found that when cleco shopping you'll have a hard time beating Brown Aviation Tool for selection, price and fast service:

http://www.browntool.com/Listview/tabid/344/CategoryID/84/Level/a/ProductID/1882/Default.aspx

Jeff