Base vs Complete kit

[Rusty_S85]

Ive been gone for a long time, got into a new line of work and with all these projects I have been doing for business owners with their little toys I am not revisiting this idea for myself.

I looked at the two versions of the kits and I just cant decide. part of me likes the complete kit but the other part of me is leaning towards the cheaper price of the base kit. Which would give me in theory more flexibility on what I do.

Now my question is what kit would be better for someone that is going to do a lot of custom work themselves on it?

Not really sure what other information to provide to help with recommendations.

All I know is I have done a lot of custom work in the last few years on production vehicles one of which involved stuffing a 2015 5.0 Coyote into a old '82 F150 truck. So I am not new to custom work nor am I new to performance. I'm just new to this as Ive never done a kit but always wanted to. Just put it off for years as I have four project cars now that I am working on but doesn't hurt to line up a fifth one for when I get done with the ones I have now.

[michael everson]

I think with the coupe, I would go complete. Everything that you get you will need anyways. You can always sell off the stuff you don't need. I know lots of people upgrade the brakes. If you buy the Brembos through FFR, they will delete the brakes from you kit. The complete kit will save you tons of time finding every nut and bolt you need to assemble this thing. Time is money.
Mike

[GoDadGo]

As a first time builder, I went with the complete kit (MK-4) and glad that I did for the exact reason that Michael stated regarding the "Time Saved" issue.

You'll find that you will make more than a few custom touches, as you start your build, which make it truly your own.
Those custom touches will take time, but will put your personal signature on the final product and it will amaze you.
As Dave Smith says, "They all leave the factory the same way, but they never come home that way."

Good Luck & You'll Love Building Your Car More Than You Will Ever Imagine!

[RickP]

I bought the base kit but in the end, the only part installed from my donor to date is the e-brake and I'm about halfway thru. Not even sure if I can use the radiator at this point. When I started assembling the car with new suspension, brakes, powder coated aluminum panels, my thought process shifted to "why put old parts on a new car". Live and learn I suppose. So it's turning out to be a base kit, non-donor build. If I were to do it again, I would get the complete kit, upgrade the specifics I wanted, and have FFR delete the parts I don't need. I'm building an MK4 btw.

[GoDadGo]

The only thing that isn't new on my car is the Block.
Since I've got an alternate driveline (383-SBC & ZF 6-Speed) I've done my fair share of part's chasing and that's enough for me.
Working with new parts will, in the end, yield a new car plus your hands stay cleaner.
It's Truly A NAPA Pay Me Now Or Pay Me Later Scenario!

[6t8dart]

I think with the coupe, I would go complete. Everything that you get you will need anyways. You can always sell off the stuff you don't need. I know lots of people upgrade the brakes. If you buy the Brembos through FFR, they will delete the brakes from you kit. The complete kit will save you tons of time finding every nut and bolt you need to assemble this thing. Time is money.
Mike

I 100% agree, complete kit. I have spent many hours and hundreds of $ just buying fasteners. The stuff FFR gives you is top notch stuff. The only thing i dont like is the line clamps, I got better rubber lined.

[skullandbones]

I'm glad to see that FFR still offers the base kit for those who can not afford the immediate investment of the complete. It allows them to get started and use their time and sweat equity to still participate in the process. That was exactly my situation when I first bought my MKIII. It was fun but I wouldn't do it that way again. However, if you can manage it, the value is undeniable to go for the complete kit.

Whenever I think about this process of getting all the fasteners and small items that make up such a project, I'm taken back to what I heard at a SEMA show a couple of years ago. There was a Pagani 918, I think, at the show. A tech at the site said the car had some titanium bolts holding the rear engine chassis to the rest of the body. He said each bolt was $115 and there were 38 of them. So keep in mind: the cost of fasteners can add up very quickly!!!

Good luck,

WEK.

[John Dol]

A lot depends on your goal and your available $$.
A base kit with a donor car can build you a ride for $25-$30K documented here and on the other forum. If you are not afraid of elbow grease, don't care about resale value or what it looks like when you open the hood, and don't have a dead line for when it should be finished that is an option.
If you are looking to build more of a show car, don't want to spend a long time building, don't like to get dirty and want higher resale value then the complete kit is your choice.
Another option to consider if you are going to make a lot of mods is to get the chassis not powder coated. This will prevent messing up the FFR powder coat, give you a choice of color but will never be as cheap as from the factory.
My car started as a full donor build however the only parts I ended up using where the engine, trans and rear axle. Still I sold all the other parts of the car for more then I bought the car for so those where free.
HTH

John

[Rusty_S85]

Thanks for the replies.

The points brought up are the same reasons why I am not sure which way to go. For me I am trying to save up enough cash to try and see if I can atleast pay half of it up front and then put the rest on credit or finance if my credit union will go for it. For me I do not mind getting the full kit but the thing is though some of the stuff the full kit comes with will not be used as my goals are a little mixed.

My goal years and years ago was 427W stroker with a TKO500 and a 3.27:1ish rear axle ratio. Was going to set it up for road course racing as well. Well now with working on hotrods and custom cars for the last few years as my profession I have learned from experience more and now my goal is still to have something that I can have fun on a road course but I don't need top of the line stuff as I wont race it professionally just something to play around with. I also realized I don't need a 427W stroker and I am now leaning more towards a late model 302 roller block as a basis of my build and build it as a high rpm performance engine. Something capable of being able to turn up to 7,000 or 8,000 rpm and not wipe the engine out but something that can also be driven on the street long distance for travel as well.

This is also why I am looking at going the vintage air route as well as power steering where as before I was not looking at it as I felt it would kill the race car look. For me I rather have A/C in the heat we have here not only that but with the technology we have now why cant a race car have A/C. We built a race car out of an original 68 RS/SS Camaro and put vintage air in it.

So in a nut shell my primary idea was to go with a uncoated chassis to allow me to make holes where needed for brake lines and fuel lines, which I will be bending and flaring my own hardlines as I don't want rubber hoses from front to rear. I also am leaning towards a fuel cell in the back still which I don't know if there is a new one out there now or not I know last time I looked they weren't offering fuel cells for the kit anymore. I am on the fence about using a Fox body 4 link suspension which is what you get included with the base kit. I just am not sure if the 3 link that comes in the complete kit would be better for what my intended purpose is or not over the fox body 4 link.

To make it easy this is my order list for the base and complete kits.

Base
-Uncoated chassis
-tubular lower a-arms
-4 link performance upgrade
-302 ceramic coated headers
- steering I do not know about which one I would go with
-modern gauges (not going to use them had some ideas for gauges I want SpeedHut to make for me)
-vintage aluminum racing seats
-a/c, heat, defroster
- not going for the wipers going to see what I can do with off the shelf parts.

This here will put me at $18,459

Complete kit
-uncoated chassis
-modern gauges
-302 headers
-31 spline TKO500/TKO600 driveshaft
-vintage racing seats
-powersteering kit
-tubular lower a-arms
-3 link deluxe suspension
-A/C, heat, defroster

which will put me right at $22,439. Which if FFR does this 1,000 off or 2,000 in upgrades sale every summer I can get more for my money in this case with the deluxe kit.

Thing is though for me, I wouldn't be in a rush to finish the kit once I got it. Its just hard for me to explain clearly what I am going for. I don't want to say I want it to be a race car that will be driven on the street because I wont be racing it competitively but I do want it to handle good and stop good and some of the upgrades I originally planned will stay such as the wilwood tandem pedal box with the bias bar and wilwood brakes front and rear. But like been said before you get more in the complete kit which I can see. Just not sure what would fit my needs best though. Hate to buy the complete kit if the base kit would better fit my needs better and allow me more flexibility.

I know this is all over the place and probably hard to read but just not able to easily explain myself on this.

I forgot to mention on the note of how the finished product looks. My goal still is the same as years ago and I would want it to look like a race car. My idea is to have it look like a race car the way I would have built the race car myself. Which is why I originally was looking at products that gave the vintage '60s look but has modern technology. Now I am not so sure if I want to go this route but I do still want the 302 I build to look like a 289 hi-po race engine. Just wont be using the webber down draft carbs nor fuel injection. Will probably just go with a single 4bbl carb just for simple reliable operation.

[GoDadGo]

If you haven't ridden or driven one of these things, then you will be in for a big surprise even with minimal horse power. Maybe the answer is to build the car with a basic engine and then upgrade it later.

To give you an idea, my ancient long in the tooth daily driver (1995 / C4 Corvette Rag Top) tips the scales around 3,350 pound and has a stock engine that was factory rated at 300-HP and 330 FT/LBS of torque. That car, with a cold air system, muffler delete and 190,000 miles on it still clicks down the quarter mile between 12.50 and 13.50 depending on the weather.

My point is a very basic carbureted 302 crate motor can save you a ton of cash and will still propel any FACTORY FIVE because the power to weight ratio will be far superior to just about anything out there. 300 HP should get the car well into the 12 second range, possibly lower, with the appropriate rear end gear ratio.

Good Luck & Come Drink The Coffee With Us!

PS: You could put a Chevy in it to save a ton of money, but you'll get some ribbing if you do. Check out www.gpsconnection.com if you decide to do a dark side build.

Randy Jones Did It First!

[Rusty_S85]

Thanks for the reply. I havent driven one of theses before but i did drive the 82 f150 i built at work with a 500hp factory 5.0 coyote in it. Hit 80 mph in no time and would bark the tires in first second and third.

I dont want that considering this would be a road course car seeing as i already have a toy to play with that was built for acceleration.

With that in mind i was thinking a 302 roller block with 9.5 to 10 to 1 compression with aluminum heads a performer rpm intake and a roller cam that has a redline around 7 or 8 grand. Not shooting for a torque build but a high rpm breathing engine that can be runned in 3rd and 4th gear on a road track pushing it at 5000 to 6000rpm.

Ideally i would want this with the engine making no more than 300hp due to the light weight.

[GoDadGo]

See if you can locate a forum member in your area that might be willing to take you for a ride.

I was fortunate enough ride in and drive two and they were both impressive. The first was a MK-III with a healthy 302 with a T-5 and manual steering, brakes and the old style independent rear. The next was an over the top Super Charged SVT Cobra powered MK-4 that was pushing 15 pounds of boost and over 600 RWHP with the 3-Link solid axel. That car had power steering and power brakes and was a work of art.

Both cars were fast and the MK-III (302 Engine) was able to spin the wheels in 1st and 2nd with a good bit of tire shake getting into 3rd. The MK-4 could spin the wheels all the way up to 85 MPH in 4th and at that point I knew I had to get one.

Also, if you check out YOUTUBE and search Factory Five Versus Lambo and you should pull up a pretty cool video that Hot Rod Unlimited did a few years back. The car that beat the Lambo sold at Barrett Jackson for about 85-K a year or two ago.

Happy Motoring!

NOTE: My 383 SBC Operation Range Will Be From 2,300 - 6,500 So I Know It Will Go!

[Rusty_S85]

Interesting video. Wonder if the coupes time was on cold tires or if he did a second lap.

In any case that is what i like about the coupe. Its slightly bigger and its a hardtop so no top install is needed if caught in the rain.

Only thing i need to do is take my time cause i want the 302 to sound like a race engine and redline around 7 or 8 grand but at the same time i want it mild enough that it can be driven on the street and back country roads. Where ill be moving to its off 71 so that road people do 80 to 95 on it and i10 is a bit south same way speed wise. Thats why i figured a tko500 5spd with a 3.27 axle ratio. Od would come into play around 80 mph.

[GoDadGo]

A friend of mine has a Type-65 with a 392 Windsor (351 Stroked To 3.85") and it is fast to the point of having more engine that the tires can hold until you get into 4th gear. The clam shell front end gives you room for days.

Also, If you want over the top power consider going with an LS power plant. Pace Performance has them in all sorts of configurations, including a Front Drive HEI set up which looks a lot like a Ford engine. You just need to change the valve covers to something generic plus they have over 500 HP and are all aluminum.

If you can tell I'm nuts for this stuff it is because I'm about to put my engine in my car so Go-Karting is hopefully something I'll be doing in a few weeks!

Also, If you are tall, you will want to get the Kirkey Seats because these cars are small.

[Rusty_S85]

Heigth wise im 6ft 1 with my work boots on 5ft 11 barefot. Im sure i can fit in the coupe.

[GoDadGo]

You'll Fit Fine!

[Misterfubar]

Great thread. I've been going back and forth on a Base vs complete and leaning towards a complete and this has helped cement that decision for me. Does FF give a credit on items you upgrade? I'll be going with the IRS, do you get a credit for the 3-link? Just curious since the IRS is the same price if I add it to the kit, or just order it from the store(plus shipping of course)

[GoDadGo]

I'm sorry, but I do not know because I ordered my kit before they came out with the new IRS set up.
Call Dangerous Dan or Miss Courtney at Factory Five Racing and ask.
They Are Great To Deal With & Very Knowledgable!

[Rusty_S85]

Great thread. I've been going back and forth on a Base vs complete and leaning towards a complete and this has helped cement that decision for me. Does FF give a credit on items you upgrade? I'll be going with the IRS, do you get a credit for the 3-link? Just curious since the IRS is the same price if I add it to the kit, or just order it from the store(plus shipping of course)

My understanding is the 3 link is included with the price. When you upgrade to the IRS you are only paying the difference of the cost of the IRS.

I know I looked at IRS back when it was the 8.8 Tbird one but since they don't offer that anymore I am going solid 8.8 axle as I don't want to get involved with the new mustang differential. Plus a 8.8 solid axle in my book wont hinder the performance of the vehicle as I am not planning on racing her professionally for money. Just a car to drive on the street go on trips in to events and play around in on a road course track from time to time. Thus why I need to really think on this. Wont be making my purchase till after I move to prevent me having to relocate my kit. Gives me more time to make a decision on which way I want to go now as well as finalize my decision.

Part of me still keeps looking at the base kit but I really need to do some reading on 4 link vs 3 link for performance applications such as road course racing.

My original idea was I would be working on my four project vehicles at the same time jumping from one to another as I get bored with them and this kit would be something that I could design from the ground up vs just a straight forward restoration or a vintage performance build. So its not something that I need the kit finished right away I want to take time with it and do it right. Like wise theres lots I had planned with it some which will probably never happen. One idea was to affix the spoiler in such a way that it is functional at speeds. I also remember a guy that made a vent from inside the car through the spoiler for use with the foot box vents. I also remember a post of another making custom made scoops in the rear side windows for the brake cooling ducts that I thought of doing as well.

[Jacob McCrea]

"Complete kit
-uncoated chassis
-modern gauges
-302 headers
-31 spline TKO500/TKO600 driveshaft
-vintage racing seats
-powersteering kit
-tubular lower a-arms
-3 link deluxe suspension
-A/C, heat, defroster

which will put me right at $22,439. Which if FFR does this 1,000 off or 2,000 in upgrades sale every summer I can get more for my money in this case with the deluxe kit."

I think this is in your best interests. I basically did the alternative that you suggested above (base kit, various extras, uncoated chassis). Researching and chasing down a litany of little parts was not a terribly effective use of my limited time. Nor was it all that financially effective since paying full retail for endless parts eats away at the savings you achieve on the front end. As for rear suspension, I don't think there's any dispute that the 3-link is a better road course suspension than the 4-link. As for customization, the sky is the limit even with the complete kit. And I just got a flyer in the mail about the summer sale you reference. Good luck!

[Rusty_S85]

Thanks for the reply.

I hope they do summer sales like this more often. I don't think it would be smart of me to order now vs waiting till after I move. If I do the order now then I have to load it up on a trailer to relocate it 110 miles to the west. Be more efficient to order it after my move and then be done.

So this gives me more time to save money up for this as well as explore options for financing this endeavor. By the time I get to the point of having to order parts for my build I should have a stable job in the new area and I should have my credit limit bumped up by then. That will allow me to purchase and pay over time to do this project. The engine isn't a concern of mine, guy I know at work that builds our engines told me he can get me a short block core a 302 roller for $100 - $200.

I just don't want to sit on the fence and wait till I am older to do this. I want to do this now when I am young enough to still do this myself and enjoy myself. Plus it doesn't help working on other peoples toys for a living and seeing all the nice things others have and here I am just don't have the time to do my own projects since I am commission and end up working long hours every single day just to make a decent income.

[GoDadGo]

Rusty_S85,

The last time they did a sale like this was back at the end of 2014.
It was 1,500 off a complete kit or 2,500 worth of goodies with some very specific limitations.
It ended on 11-10-2014, which was the day I ordered my MK-4 and asked for a January or February delivery date so I could scrounge up the money.
My advice, don't wait because this sale is about as good as it gets; however, you usually see the 50/50 deal pop up in the 4th quarter.
Also, I think the extended delivery date gave me time to get my garage in order and time to Read, Read, Read the assembly manual.

Steve