NASA ST4 for old configuration cars?

[mhoward1]

I was looking at the proposed ratios and possible rules for NASA’s upcoming ST4 class and it seems like a really good place for those of us with Challenge cars in the original configuration. The 12.0/1 with a possible +.1/.2 for smaller tires and no aero seems like very little would need to be done.

I did do the upgrade myself, but I have been seriously thinking about going back because of how reliable the car was before the changes. How many of you who have retired your cars to HPDEs or similar would consider coming back?

[R Thomas]

I read your post then read thru the rules of ST4. Unless I missed something the Challenge car can not run in ST4 because its not a production chassis. ST3 (at 10 to 1) does seem a fit thou with larger MAF, Throttle body and Injectors seems like 260 HP should be doable with out stressing a T-5. I was looking at building a Challenge car in 2015 but the class seemed to disappear.

[FFRSpec72]

We have a nice deal with SOVREN and SCCA Vintage in the NW, would be good to also get a deal with SVRA, running VP3 or Big Bore class

[EBarnes]

I sent you a message Marty - my car was updated (suspension and brakes), but with a stock 302. I would like to make this year the year I get the comp license, but wondering what to do with the car...

[wesmc]

I read your post then read thru the rules of ST4. Unless I missed something the Challenge car can not run in ST4 because its not a production chassis. ST3 (at 10 to 1) does seem a fit thou with larger MAF, Throttle body and Injectors seems like 260 HP should be doable with out stressing a T-5. I was looking at building a Challenge car in 2015 but the class seemed to disappear.

Section 7.5 The FFC cars are allowed in.

[wesmc]

I am new to the FFR challenge scene and bought an early configuration car last year to run in NASA. FF Challenge is dead in my area as well so I'm looking at ST3 or 4 so that I won't be winning a class of 1. I didn't change a thing on the car last year and just did some events for me and the car to get to know each other. So my question today is where to go with the car. Brakes are a must and got with Levy racing on that. What's next to make this old car competitive? Wheels and tires or do you guys find the little 17s good? They seem heavy and narrow to me. Specific suspension mods? I've heard rear sway. I didn't notice a ton of roll in the car without it but if the conventional wisdom here is to add it I will.

[johngeorge]

I am new to the FFR challenge scene and bought an early configuration car last year to run in NASA. FF Challenge is dead in my area as well so I'm looking at ST3 or 4 so that I won't be winning a class of 1. I didn't change a thing on the car last year and just did some events for me and the car to get to know each other. So my question today is where to go with the car. Brakes are a must and got with Levy racing on that. What's next to make this old car competitive? Wheels and tires or do you guys find the little 17s good? They seem heavy and narrow to me. Specific suspension mods? I've heard rear sway. I didn't notice a ton of roll in the car without it but if the conventional wisdom here is to add it I will.

The 2012+ FFR rules allows for 13" front rotor/PBR caliper from 1998 mustang cobra, I would upgrade to those brakes. They are great brakes, leave the rear brakes alone. Factory Five sells an upgrade kit FFR#15415 that upgrades the spindles, SAI kit, and front swaybar changing the front end geometry to add a lot more grip in the front. You should definitely do that before you do anything else. I think that is the best bang for the buck with stock power levels.

Factory Five Suspension Kit FFR#15415
spindles
bearing hub assemblys
SAI upper control arm weld-in bracket
swaybar with mounting hardware

Brakes
1998 FORD MUSTANG COBRA 4.6L 281cid V8 FI (V) DOHC
Part Number Part Type
CENTRIC 12061045(120.61045) Right Rotor
CENTRIC 12061044(120.61044) Left Rotor
RAYBESTOS FRC10603 Right Caliper with Bracket
RAYBESTOS FRC10604 Left Caliper with Bracket

[GoDadGo]

Brakes
1998 FORD MUSTANG COBRA 4.6L 281cid V8 FI (V) DOHC
Part Number Part Type
CENTRIC 12061045(120.61045) Right Rotor
CENTRIC 12061044(120.61044) Left Rotor
RAYBESTOS FRC10603 Right Caliper with Bracket
RAYBESTOS FRC10604 Left Caliper with Bracket

John,

Can I assume that these brakes will fit the MK-4?
I have the FFR spindles and I went with the complete kit, but standard front brakes.
I just want to know in case I find that the stock front brakes end up being a bit lacking.

Steve

[johngeorge]

Steve, yes to both fit on MK-4 and they will bolt right up to FFR spindles.

[wesmc]

Since there are no Challenge cars running near me I'm heading to ST 3 or 4 with this old girl. Got brakes ordered, question I have for guys who have more time in these cars is what is the next priority. I have a 347 on the stand but would blow right out of ST4, prolly all the way to ST2 with that motor so I'd rather think about horsepower last.

[wesmc]

Ok, I will get on the front suspension upgrade this week. Sounds like that is next on the list. I was thinking about the Cobra brakes last year but since I have never encountered a second Challenge car I decided to not worry about that rules package at all. I assume that 15415 kit will work with the Willwoods Levy Racing is sending but I will verify. Thank You!

[GoDadGo]

Steve, yes to both fit on MK-4 and they will bolt right up to FFR spindles.

Thanks John!

[EBarnes]

I am new to the FFR challenge scene and bought an early configuration car last year to run in NASA. FF Challenge is dead in my area as well so I'm looking at ST3 or 4 so that I won't be winning a class of 1. I didn't change a thing on the car last year and just did some events for me and the car to get to know each other. So my question today is where to go with the car. Brakes are a must and got with Levy racing on that. What's next to make this old car competitive? Wheels and tires or do you guys find the little 17s good? They seem heavy and narrow to me. Specific suspension mods? I've heard rear sway. I didn't notice a ton of roll in the car without it but if the conventional wisdom here is to add it I will.

Where are you located?

[G_Lemke]

NEW RULE - New place for OLD spec challenge cars

So for the last few years the FFR was legal for ST3, but not ST4. New for 2018 it is allowed in ST4, but with a painful adjustment.

From the 2018 rules "Factory Five Roadster (no Aero, no hardtop, FF Challenge air dam ok) = -0.6 (ST4 approved)"

This means that an FFR would need to run a raw weight to hp of 12.5 (-0.6 as above, + 0.3 for tires 250-275, and -0.2 for weight between 2200 and 2600)
or a 2550 lbs car could run 204 hp.

Since all of the west coast FFRs seem to have done a disappearing act, this adds another option to get them back on track.

(see many other threads on the new spec cars being ST2, or detuned to ST3, seems to still be -0.0 in ST3 or higher)

[mhoward1]

NEW RULE - New place for OLD spec challenge cars

So for the last few years the FFR was legal for ST3, but not ST4. New for 2018 it is allowed in ST4, but with a painful adjustment.

From the 2018 rules "Factory Five Roadster (no Aero, no hardtop, FF Challenge air dam ok) = -0.6 (ST4 approved)"

This means that an FFR would need to run a raw weight to hp of 12.5 (-0.6 as above, + 0.3 for tires 250-275, and -0.2 for weight between 2200 and 2600)
or a 2550 lbs car could run 204 hp.

Since all of the west coast FFRs seem to have done a disappearing act, this adds another option to get them back on track.

(see many other threads on the new spec cars being ST2, or detuned to ST3, seems to still be -0.0 in ST3 or higher)

Despite the handicap this is great news. These cars are too good to have no where to go.

Thanks for the update

[mhoward1]

2019 rules for those who want to run in ST3/ST4:

https://nasa-assets.s3.amazonaws.com/document/document/16301/ST1-4___SU_Rules__2019--v13.1--10-10-18.pdf

No Modification Factor Models:
Factory Five Roadster (no aero, no hardtop, FF Challenge air dam ok) = -0.0


With Modification Factor Models:
Factory Five Roadster (if any Aero mods, wing, or splitter) = -0.2
Factory Five Roadster (no Aero, no hardtop, FF Challenge air dam ok) = -0.6
(ST4 approved)
Factory Five Type 65 Coupe (Gen 1&2) = -0.2 (no additional Aero mods)
Factory Five Type 65 Coupe (Gen 3) = -0.3 (no additional Aero mods)