seat harness bar?

[Bill Waters]

Working on my Challenge car (for ST2) and have thought that I read somewhere (or maybe a vendor mentioned to me) that the "stock" Challenge configuration is not passing muster at tech for shoulder belt attachment. Are you guys welding in a bar as implied by the CCR diagrams? What is the best setup? Have searched, especially for pictures of members' cars and their belt attachments, but can't find any clear views/answers.

Thanks

[ricobrafan]

Hey Bill,
Sorry that I do not have an answer to your questions but I do have a funny story. When I was going to pick up my type 65 coupe on Sat 7/18 I was talking with the guys and we are the only two to order a fuel cell cage in a few years. When the production guys saw the orders they went to the front and asked if they still made them and then they had to go and find the jog. Thought I would share a story. Enjoy and good luck with the harness.

[Bill Waters]

Thanks for sharing, ricobra; yes, they had a bit of difficulty with the order when I placed it. I have yet to find my cage components amongst my boxes, but I have a few still to open.

[mhoward1]

55536

Yes, most of us have welded a cross bar for harness support.
Here is mine for reference

[FFRSpec72]

55536

Yes, most of us have welded a cross bar for harness support.
Here is mine for reference

Agree, its a MUST to get the right angle for harness

[avgjoe]

+3. You'll need to establish your seating position before you put this bar in. It may be one of the last things you do in your build. Pay very close attention to the rules and the the direction from your harness manufacturer in terms of belt angles and placement of the mounting points. It can be tricky to get everything into the tight space of the FFR.

My bar runs between the angled rear uprights and is in the trunk area, fwiw. Many ways to skin this cat, and there is not a one size fits all solution.

[Bill Waters]

Thanks Marty, Tony & avgjoe. Your direction is what I thought should be the case. I was envisioning a bar pretty much exactly like Marty's.
I remember seeing diagrams about harness angles and the like, but can't remember where. These showed the shoulder harnesses coming back to the attachment point at zero degrees (i.e., level when viewed from the side) or at a slightly negative (i.e., sloping down from the shoulders to the bar) angle. Is this correct?

Are all the applicable rules continued within the NASA CCR section? To be honest, they are uncharacteristically vague on this topic vague IMO and I am afraid I am missing a more definitive set of guidelines.

Thanks

[FFRSpec72]

Thanks Marty, Tony & avgjoe. Your direction is what I thought should be the case. I was envisioning a bar pretty much exactly like Marty's.
I remember seeing diagrams about harness angles and the like, but can't remember where. These showed the shoulder harnesses coming back to the attachment point at zero degrees (i.e., level when viewed from the side) or at a slightly negative (i.e., sloping down from the shoulders to the bar) angle. Is this correct?

Are all the applicable rules continued within the NASA CCR section? To be honest, they are uncharacteristically vague on this topic vague IMO and I am afraid I am missing a more definitive set of guidelines.

Thanks

See section `15.5 and 15.6.22 of https://nasa-assets.s3.amazonaws.com/document/document/282/2016.5.pdf

[Bill Waters]

Thanks, Tony - 15.5, sentences 6 & 7 were what I was referring to. Here's what's unclear to me. I have a Kirkey Sportsman seat. There are no holes for the passage of the shoulder harnesses through to the attachment point. But the seat, which is one that has full head and shoulder restraint, is very stout in the area that the belts would go over. If the seat back is very slightly above my shoulders, is the angle referred to the angle as measured from my shoulders or the seat back? Does there need to be provision for additional guide bars? To my eye, these guidelines don't allow you to resolve that. You guys, having dealt with tech inspections (I haven't) may have insights about this.

Thanks, as always, for any help.

[mhoward1]

Thanks, Tony - 15.5, sentences 6 & 7 were what I was referring to. Here's what's unclear to me. I have a Kirkey Sportsman seat. There are no holes for the passage of the shoulder harnesses through to the attachment point. But the seat, which is one that has full head and shoulder restraint, is very stout in the area that the belts would go over. If the seat back is very slightly above my shoulders, is the angle referred to the angle as measured from my shoulders or the seat back? Does there need to be provision for additional guide bars? To my eye, these guidelines don't allow you to resolve that. You guys, having dealt with tech inspections (I haven't) may have insights about this.

Thanks, as always, for any help.

Which Kirkey Sportsman seat do you have?

As far as angles go, here is a good guide about tolerances and setups to be safe and pass inspection.

http://thscc.com/track-program/2016/TechGuide2016.pdf

Page 21 - 31

[Bill Waters]

It's the 71 series full containment road race seat featured here: https://www.kirkeyracing.com/product/10/71500/SEAT-ALUMINUM-16-STANDARD-20-LAYBACK-ROAD-RACE-CONTAINMENT.

That's a great technical bulletin you shared, Marty; thanks very much. I think my shoulders are going to be so close to the top of the seat that it may be irrelevant, any way. I can mount the belt (and hence weld in the bar) level or slightly above level and be fine - I'll have to do some fitting and see.

[mhoward1]

OK, so there is a belt pass through, just no belt separation. I think your theory is correct about where to place the harness brace bar. But as you said, better to test fit and measure first.

[Bill Waters]

Yep; I meant that the harnesses go over the top of the seat proper (but under the attached head restraint component). I think it will work out; I'll sit in it and measure level from my shoulders and make the bar even with or slightly above that point.

Thanks