AAARGH! I can't believe I did this!

[jwsnake56]

Maybe it's a guy thing about following directions. Maybe I was just having one of those days.
55105
I get to the point of attaching the tie rod ends and... somethings not quite right here. AAARGH!
I quickly recheck the picture in the manual and yep, I put the steering arm in backwards. Smooth move. Oh well, all I have to do is pull the brake caliper, rotor, and loosen up the fastener. Check, check, and check. No... it's trapped between the LCA ball joint castle nut and I can't pull enough of the bolt out to free it because of hitting the hub.
So what now? Is it wiser to try to free the LCA ball joint or untorque the nut on the spindle that fastens the hub? My guess is go with the ball joint.
Hope somebody gets a chuckle from this one.
John S.

[cnutting]

Join the club, I installed mine upside down. I undid the nut as opposed to freeing the ball joint.
Try not to strip any caliper bolts in your frustration. Ask me how I know...
:p

[Geoff H]

If you remove the shock to allow control arm movement, would raising the control arm give you any more clearance between the ball joint and steering arm?

[jwsnake56]

Unfortunately no. It is solidly trapped between the nut and the spindle. Both move together.

[jwsnake56]

Join the club, I installed mine upside down. I undid the nut as opposed to freeing the ball joint.
Try not to strip any caliper bolts in your frustration. Ask me how I know...
:p
Now I don't feel so bad. :)
I guess my concern with removing the spindle nut is how much does torqueing the nut to 225# stretch the fastener and will it fatigue on loosening and retightening? I don't want this to snowball any further.
John S.

[DaleG]

I'm in that club also. No issues with removing the pin, removing the nut, making it all right and tightening back up.

[Duke]

Ball joint separator :)

[flynntuna]

This might help....

[rmcmicki]

No worries. Fix it, move on. You will build this entire car three times before you are done!

[WIS89]

John-

Don't beat yourself up. I plan on keeping my mistakes a secret; mostly because it would overload the forum to catalog all of my mistakes!

The one nice thing about making mistakes is that you get to build, rebuild, and sometimes re-rebuild a component, so you end up pretty darned familiar by the time you are done.

Best of luck as you continue, and feel free to ask questions. Great folks here, and lots of experience to help you through.

Regards,

Steve

[pcww]

I could not believe how I could have made the same stupid mistake. But I did.

[jwsnake56]

Thanks for the support. My fasteners are the tell. They are starting to get scarred up. So maybe that's why so many folks build more than one car. The first is the learning experience. :D
John

[Al_C]

I feel your pain! The good news is that everytime I get my head handed to me, I learn something new.

[WIS89]

Thanks for the support. My fasteners are the tell. They are starting to get scarred up. So maybe that's why so many folks build more than one car. The first is the learning experience. :D
John

John-

While I think it's true that the first one is a learning experience, I am spending so much money, I won't have enough left to build another!! HA

My son and I have joked several times, that we could build another one in 1/3 the time, based on the number of mistakes we would avoid next time.

Keep at it, and enjoy the build!

Regards,

Steve

[Mark Dougherty]

ah
but by the time you build the next 1 it will have changed

[chopthebass]

I put mine in correctly but had to turn them the wrong way round as they were hitting my Baer rotors!!

[cnutting]

No worries. Fix it, move on. You will build this entire car three times before you are done!

So true!

[Vladik41]

Did the same thing on mine don't feel bad.

[boat737]

I bought a partially completed project. The original builder did the exact same thing. But when he took the lower ball joint out, he ripped the dust boots. So I ended up pulling the LBJ again to replace the boots. Plus, I think I've pretty much had every other nut and bolt and assembly off for one reason or another. I think I've re-done and re-re-done about everything by now. And still have a long way to go.

[jwsnake56]

I bought a partially completed project. The original builder did the exact same thing. But when he took the lower ball joint out, he ripped the dust boots. So I ended up pulling the LBJ again to replace the boots.
Again, thanks to all for their support. This forum is great. Unlike some other online forums I've been a part of no one here bashes anyone else. That is so refreshing in these intolerant times that we live in. But, I digress.
55122
I took a day or two to think through my options and do some research on the internet- the source of all great wisdom :p I felt that removing the ball joint was the best approach but I did not want to tear the boot or possibly damage the LBJ using a wedge type tool. That is probably what your original builder did. I saw a video demonstration this ball joint separator from Harbor Freight. It works totally differently from the wedge type tool. There is a great video on YouTube showing how to properly use it. There is a HF about a mile from my house so I stopped in and picked it up for $22. My initial concern was confirmed that it does not open wide enough right out of the box. Thinking about it I realized all I had to do was grind down the back end of the lever arm to get it to open up further. You can see in the picture the modification. It worked like a charm. I highly recommend this tool to anyone else in this predicament.
John S.

[boat737]

I wasn't smart enough to use the proper tool on mine. I got a 5/8-18 x 1" long bolt and nut. screwed them together and stuck them between the upper and lower ball joint pins (the threaded stud parts that essentially point at each other.) Stuck a little 1/8" piece of metal on the nut side for a shim, and backed the nut off the bolt. It wedges itself between the two pins and starts to add pressure to back out one of the pins (obviously the castle nut has to be either removed, or loosened enough to allow the tapered pin to free itself from the spindle.) Tap lower A-arm a bit with a hammer, back the nut off a bit more, tap a bit, back off the nut, etc. Worked perfectly for me, but the pin had not been on for thousands of miles either. Warning: This is a "finesse" and "patience" technique. Go slow, and easy. Don't try to over power it with too much force by wrenching the nut off (I know, goes against my motto here) because you don't want to ruin the pin, pin threads, or somehow bend the spindle. A quarter-turn or so, and a couple taps. Three or four cycles did it for me.

[Jeff Kleiner]

I put mine in correctly but had to turn them the wrong way round as they were hitting my Baer rotors!!

You realize that by doing so you have changed the Ackermann from what was designed and are forcing an increased slip angle, right?

Jeff

[dmoran]

I am also in the club. Somehow I had myself convinced that the tie rods went on top and put mine on upside down on purpose. I took great care to make sure I checked and double checked to not "F" it up. Sucks to be careful to make sure to do something exactly wrong :-)

I went with loosening the spindle hub enough to get the bolts out. I read a few articles that claimed that distorted thread locknuts were reusable. They were only on there a couple weeks. We will see...

It also seemed like it would be impossible to torque the ball joint nuts without also removing the shocks. On the positive side, it cut the "per use" cost of that big 36mm socket in half :rolleyes:

Doug

[2bking]

I read a few articles that claimed that distorted thread locknuts were reusable. They were only on there a couple weeks. We will see...
Doug

I don't think time has an input in reuse. As part of my job sometimes I got to do some field work at the army bases installing new equipment on military vehicles. In the process we had to remove and reinstall some of the existing equipment that had lots of distorted nuts and are reusable up to 5 times. The problem was there was no way to tell how many times they had been reused so all had to be replaced with new ones.

[dmoran]

I wasn't sure if the metal would loose elasticity over time and loose it's deformation. Everything is brand new and this is first use. Do you think I should replace them? At only $14 each, it's pretty cheep insurance. And I get to use the big socket and torque wrench again ;)

[2bking]

I wasn't sure if the metal would loose elasticity over time and loose it's deformation. Everything is brand new and this is first use. Do you think I should replace them? At only $14 each, it's pretty cheep insurance. And I get to use the big socket and torque wrench again ;)
If they require more than 10 in-lb to spin them on, they are good. The minimum prevailing torque requirements vary with thread size and method of manufacture but the 10 in-lb is a good place to start for the fasteners holding the steering arm. If they are less than that, you can still reuse them by adding Loctite to the threads before assembly.

[Leonard]

you can still reuse them by adding Loctite to the threads before assembly.

Ford specs a one-time use deforming thread style locknut (as opposed to a conventional nut with threadlocker) for a reason. I wouldn't count on loctite on those -- too close to too many things that can be hot enough to soften it.

[UnhipPopano]

How much would it cost to replace this nut?

[Leonard]

Dealer price is around $20 -- should be less through a auto-parts store.

[chopthebass]

You realize that by doing so you have changed the Ackermann from what was designed and are forcing an increased slip angle, right?

Jeff

I searched the web to find out what Ackermann means. I will still have a common center point, so I don't understand what will change. I can swap the PS/DS around, but I will need to grind off a bit to clear the rotor. Sorry to hijack this thread !!

[Jeff Kleiner]

It's not the centerpoint that matters. For proper Ackermann geometry the tie rod connection with the steering arm should lie on an imaginary line running forward from the center of the rear axle through the spindle pivot point as illustrated here:

http://www.tbucketplans.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/ackerman-bending-steering-arms-reversed.jpg

By reversing the steering arms you have now moved the tie rod connection with the arms inward off of that line. Thie will result in the front wheels no longer rolling through arcs eminating from the same radius centerpoint as shown here:

http://www.mobalign.com/assets/uploads/159_19.jpg?ts=1434143603

The end result will be that when turning one side will not travel through a proper arc and will be "scrubbing" (i.e.; be pushed sideways rather than rolling true) which can lead to increased tire wear, reduced traction and some quirky handling/cornering characteristics.

Good luck,
Jeff

[chopthebass]

Crikey who would have thought!! Ok thanks Jeff.

I will put the correct way round, and rather than grinding, I wonder if I can just shim with a washer so that I get a couple mm clearance to rotor.

[Jeff Kleiner]

..I wonder if I can just shim with a washer so that I get a couple mm clearance to rotor.

If you do that you will be starting down the path of changing the geometry again, although to a lesser degree. Best to leave the tie rods/steering arms in the same relationship with the pivots (ball joints) if possible.

Jeff

[chopthebass]

If you do that you will be starting down the path of changing the geometry again, although to a lesser degree. Best to leave the tie rods/steering arms in the same relationship with the pivots (ball joints) if possible.

Jeff

Problem is with my Baer brakes the bottom edge of the tie rod touches the rotor. Unless there is a slimmer tie rod I will take a chance that a washer won't mess things up too much.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Problem is with my Baer brakes the bottom edge of the tie rod touches the rotor. Unless there is a slimmer tie rod I will take a chance that a washer won't mess things up too much.

You'll be much better off than with the arms swapped side to side.

Jeff

[chopthebass]

Thanks for bringing this to my attention Jeff.