Silicon Prairie 818s Build

[mrbiglar]

Excited. First time FFR builder, but looking forward to the journey with my 14 year old son. ....Hoping this will be a creative way to have him off his phone or PlayStation for at least a few hours a week, and will create a life long memory for him.

Here is my planned build:
818s (Although may pivot to c later on so compensating for that)
Kirkey seats and various other FFR Options including all the air flow mods
Hybrid EJ257 (2.0 Heads) 91 Octane Map right now
2002 WRX ECU
Cobb TD05 20G Turbo
Perrin Fuel Rails
Deatschwerks DW300 Fuel Pump
Cobb Fuel Regulator
1050cc Cobb Fuel Injectors
NGK Irridium IX Plugs
TGV Delete
Zero DB AWIC Kit
Tomei Expreme Exhaust, Up pipe
Mike Everson Stainless with Cat exhaust OEM Front and Rear 02 Sensors installed. No EGT
iWire Harness
No PS or AC (although wiring for it if I want to add later)
FFR Wheels and Spec Tires
Lots of mods for dress up of engine bay, cabin, etc,

And so it begins...

53330

[mrbiglar]

Does anyone have any good pics or diagrams on how to run emissions and vent hoses when you use a Zero DB (or similar) AWIC? Not tracking how you adjust. Have read the simplifying the EJ Part 1 and 2, but can't tell from the pcitures what you cap, what you don't etc.

[wleehendrick]

Welcome! Sounds like a great plan.

[STiPWRD]

Welcome, that sounds like a great engine setup and very similar to what I'm running. This thread contains pictures and descriptions of each of the engine hoses:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2614458

You can either remove the metal pipes off of the stock intercooler and plug them back into the vacuum hoses on the engine or replace them with some rubber hoses, Y-fitting and barb fittings. I got rid of many of the stock hoses and replaced them with some oil catch cans and new rubber hoses.

[Mechie3]

Not quite finished, but you get the idea:

http://i.imgur.com/ZH1J5sq.jpg

[Pearldrummer7]

Welcome to the forum! I also am running a hybrid motor. If you're remotely close to me (upstate NY) you're welcome to visit and check out my 818. I think this is the coolest father-son project!!

[mrbiglar]

Actually, I am in Iowa. I think I am one of the first 818 builds in the state. That said would love to come and taken a look at your setup

[mrbiglar]

STIPWRD....Cool. That makes sense. Didn't think to go the catch can route....trying to get rid of as many of the hoses as I can.

One other quick item. Am I dreaming, or should there be a bracket between the turbo and the engine head? Went through my picture from the donor tear down and I don't think I took one of this area before I pulled the turbo and exhaust. Also, I get an error every time I try to insert an image to a post. Am I doing something wrong?

[Solidworks-Mike]

STIPWRD....Cool. That makes sense. Didn't think to go the catch can route....trying to get rid of as many of the hoses as I can.

One other quick item. Am I dreaming, or should there be a bracket between the turbo and the engine head? Went through my picture from the donor tear down and I don't think I took one of this area before I pulled the turbo and exhaust. Also, I get an error every time I try to insert an image to a post. Am I doing something wrong?

There are two brackets. They bolt to the two extra studs on the up pipe.

You can see them here (14421 and 14427):

http://parts.subaru.com/a/Subaru_2006_WRX25L-TURBO-5MT-4WDSEDAN/_54102_6021248/AIR-DUCT-06MY-/G11-073-04.html

After 25 posts you'll be bale to attach pictures.

[Rasmus]

I get an error every time I try to insert an image to a post. Am I doing something wrong?
As much as I like our little community here. I host my images on Imgur (http://www.imgur.com). Accounts are free. You're able to host hunderds of pictures. Plus, you have the added beneift of being able to control your pictures a little better. You also don't commit the internet sin of linking to your images here on F.F. Forums when you visit other forums using F. F. Forums bandwidth.

And welcome to the forum, btw.

[mrbiglar]

Solidworks Mike - Interesting...when I used the same site to look up my year of a donor 2.0 Heads, it doesn't show the brackets. Thanks!

Rasmus - ..Just wanted to give you a general thanks. I used a ton of your posts with the tear down, including the electrolysis.....my son thought it was the coolest thing ever, and my wife thought I was out of my mind :-)

All - Thanks for the pics on hose routing..huge help. I am a visual learner. One other hose (I think emissions or vacuum question)...my stock TD04 Turbo has a t fitting on the small hose between the turbo and wastegate...the TD05 I purchased just has a slightly larger hose with no T, so it runs directly. Do I need to modify, or not care...or just came that way for me to modify. If modify, hose is a little bigger, so assuming I need to modify other hoses on the donor T?

[mrbiglar]

Solidworks Mike - Never mind...figured it out. Forgot about the Air Duct Category vs. Turbo itself

[Mechie3]

All - Thanks for the pics on hose routing..huge help. I am a visual learner. One other hose (I think emissions or vacuum question)...my stock TD04 Turbo has a t fitting on the small hose between the turbo and wastegate...the TD05 I purchased just has a slightly larger hose with no T, so it runs directly. Do I need to modify, or not care...or just came that way for me to modify. If modify, hose is a little bigger, so assuming I need to modify other hoses on the donor T?

Your routing is a little different. My 2.5L heads have two hoses on each side. You just have the one. They'll go over the motor and connect and then T into the turbo inlet (plastic/silicone piece under the manifold).

You need to modify the hose on the turbo. If you run the stock boost solenoid you'll T into it. you might need a restrictor pill (not sure on size or if you do). If you use a three port boost solenoid you'll go from the compressor to the solenoid then to the wastegate and the third line into the turbo inlet (the solenoid becomes the T).

[STiPWRD]

One other hose (I think emissions or vacuum question)...my stock TD04 Turbo has a t fitting on the small hose between the turbo and wastegate...the TD05 I purchased just has a slightly larger hose with no T, so it runs directly. Do I need to modify, or not care...or just came that way for me to modify. If modify, hose is a little bigger, so assuming I need to modify other hoses on the donor T?

The hose coming off the T-fitting on your TD04 goes to the boost control solenoid, which controls boost by bleeding air between the compressor and wastegate (i.e. keeping the wastegate closed to build boost). If your TD05 has a hose with no T, it means that your wastegate will open as soon as the compressor pressure overcomes the spring force inside the wastegate. This means you won't be able to build up that much boost and boost control will be purely mechanical (i.e. no ECU in the loop).

Here's the stock setup
53401

[Rasmus]

Rasmus - ..Just wanted to give you a general thanks. I used a ton of your posts with the tear down, including the electrolysis.....my son thought it was the coolest thing ever, and my wife thought I was out of my mind :-)

You're welcome.

The electrolysis bucket of doom is always a crowd pleaser.

[mrbiglar]

Did some research and going the 3 port route. Probably a GrimmSpeed or a Perrin. Off to do some work on the car for the weekend

[mrbiglar]

Mechie3 - Your picture above. Is the bottom blue hose the one going to the crank case vent (the one with the plastic piece on it)? I am assuming yes, which means you have a two port version of the head vents. I only have one on each side...so assuming I need to y pipe that in?

Also...anyone know why someone would cap off the other crankcase vent? (See Picture)

http://imgur.com/gallery/Pw0HWwK/new

[wleehendrick]

Did some research and going the 3 port route. Probably a GrimmSpeed or a Perrin. Off to do some work on the car for the weekend

I went with a COBB 3-port EBCS since I'm tuning with an AccessPort; Cobb has OTS maps for the 3-port that will be useful until a custom tune is put in. I don't know if the EBCS brand really matters, but the Cobb looked good, so I kept it 'in the family'.

[Rasmus]

Also...anyone know why someone who cap off the other crankcase vent? (See Picture)
People cap that off that port to the crankcase when they delete the PCV system. Stock, the PCV vents to vacuum post-MAF and pre-Turbo. This is so the engine can attempt to re-burn any blow-by. It's an emissions thing.

While that's a great idea for the environment, and I love the environment, I'm also a car guy. And having the PCV dump to vaccum there causes the turbo compressor, compressor housing, intercooler, throttlebody, intake manifold and the backs of the intake valve to get covered in oil. With the valves, that oil-mist, eventually gets baked on. Also while you can combust the Oil-Mist... it's not exactly the highest octane addition to your Air-Fuel intake charge. It can cause your ECU to pull timing because the motor starts knocking from a low octane puff or two.

That's why fellas run catch-can's, or vent to atmo, or vent to exhaust under vacuum (old-school baby!).

Venting to atmo, is probably what your motor's previous owner was doing.

[mrbiglar]

Any opinions on whether you truly need to install both Turbo mounting brackets? Reason I ask is for weight, and I have a broken off bolt for the larger bracket on the inside

[mrbiglar]

Started on the under body aluminum today. Went on a little easier than I thought. although 3 drill bits later I learned to be a little more patient :-)

Question. I silicone sealed across each cross bar or edge, but there are some pretty big gaps where the frame isn't perfectly aligned. Should I rivet them together past the frame, silicone seal the edges, leave it? Doesn't look very good in my opinion

http://imgur.com/OBovfDx

[mrbiglar]

Great progress made on the engine and transmission this week. Have everything I want done ahead of putting them in the car.

http://imgur.com/a/Ibv9u

[mrbiglar]

Finished the bottom this evening. Decided to go with Herculiner for both durability and for noise reduction

http://imgur.com/a/D8ABY

Moving on to the firewall aluminum. Think I am going to go with the Herculiner Gray...

[mrbiglar]

Working on the front part of the cockpit today....confused. The picture in the manual doesn't show a hole in the front left vertical piece, but the actual aluminum does on both sides? Was there a design change, and the manual (Version 1q) was not updated? Seems odd there would be a hole straight into the cockpit on both sides, or what am I forgetting?

Image from the manual
55728

Picture of my cockpit, with pieces in
<a href="http://imgur.com/iyMIAni"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/iyMIAni.jpg" title="source: imgur.com" /></a>

[redfogo]

Working on the front part of the cockpit today....confused. The picture in the manual doesn't show a hole in the front left vertical piece, but the actual aluminum does on both sides? Was there a design change, and the manual (Version 1q) was not updated? Seems odd there would be a hole straight into the cockpit on both sides, or what am I forgetting?

Image from the manual
55728

Picture of my cockpit, with pieces in
<a href="http://imgur.com/iyMIAni"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/iyMIAni.jpg" title="source: imgur.com" /></a>

They made a revision there is a panel that ends up covering that half. Here is a pic not the best but what I had in my phone while I'm away from my garage ATM. Let me know if you need a better one.55729

Also I'm in Omaha NE! Your not to far away Midwest 818 meet! Haha

[mrbiglar]

Ah.... I found them in the box with all the Aluminum. Makes sense. On meeting. Absolutely. I hope to have mine driveable by the Fall...we will see

[mrbiglar]

Good progress last weekend on the front and rear suspension, steering.
http://imgur.com/Kp0xgXh
http://imgur.com/MgT7Ecw
http://imgur.com/rIpWEDN

Working on the cockpit aluminum while I wait for my knuckles to have new bearings and hubs pressed in.
http://imgur.com/mUwKvbt
http://imgur.com/36VjKsT

[STiPWRD]

Good progress last weekend on the front and rear suspension, steering.
http://imgur.com/Kp0xgXh
The steering rack looks a bit crooked. You may want to measure it with a level and make sure you used the correct spacers. I had a similar issue and had to shim an extra 1/4" under the driver side.

[mrbiglar]

Good catch. I am putting on the knuckles tomorrow, so will double check.

Thanks!

[mrbiglar]

Anyone else had trouble getting the Aluminum Control arms into the bottom vs. top front hole. I have tried everything I can think of other than deciding to bend the back hole on the frame out. Thoughts?

[Hindsight]

I've had a lot of issues with that. When they weld the tabs, the tabs distort a bit and cause this issue. I just bent my tabs out. Don't worry about going a little too far - the bolts will pull them back in.

[mrbiglar]

That helps...thanks

[mrbiglar]

OEM Pedalbox Alignment to Frame



Has anyone else had issues where the top holes on the pedal box will not align properly with the frame?

57212

All the front bolts are all the way in, including the ones on the clutch master cylinder. Seems like either the holes on the frame are off, or the pedal box is? Any ideas how to correct other than just drill out the holes to match?

[mrbiglar]

Have not posted in awhile, so thought I would provide some updated pictures

Engine Mounted Used Perrin Mounts. Love them and the feel. Clutch in as well
http://i.imgur.com/wbyM32e.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/xHWH641.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/SAHTtQR.jpg

Transmission Mounted Used Perrin Mounts here as well. Had a little trouble getting the holes to line up in the back. Ended up trimming a little
http://i.imgur.com/vFyzMCM.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/9U2jgrW.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/bfyTSRl.jpg

[mrbiglar]

Lizard Skinned the cockpit yesterday and today. I used both the sound control and ceramic insulation. Very impressed. Love how easy it easy is sprays on, and the consistency. Definitely need to scuff and prime, especially the aluminum.

http://i.imgur.com/aZaJ4Fs.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/iL9Iqs4.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/pydbcE7.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/6UZlWgk.jpg

[mrbiglar]

Does anyone know if FFR changed the gas line rubber? Below is what I received in the kit, but the instructions show a different product. It looks like there is 3 inches of rubber I can cut off the end, but then the stsinless line isn't straight like what the picture shows in the manual

http://i.imgur.com/hJE99Qw.jpg

[mrbiglar]

Finished the pedal box and master cylinders today. My OCD isn't dealing with the angle in the BMC very well....I used the replica parts mount. I should have straightened it out....didn't think about it. I also don't like the gap in the hole, since I am not using the booster.
http://i.imgur.com/Aw6lXo0.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/T83UsEp.jpg

Gas Tank and new Wahlbro Pump are also in
http://i.imgur.com/jfqNaM9.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/bqRSYfp.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/AEVmTGj.jpg

Steering Column
http://i.imgur.com/LoNm4ex.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/LoNm4ex.jpg

It is starting to look like a real car...really cool

[lclevert]

I received the same fuel hose. You cut that hose up and really just use the straight sections, one on the bottom to the tank and one on the top to the filler cap.

Looking good.

Skip

[mrbiglar]

Makes sense. Thanks for the help

[mrbiglar]

Put in Perrin Fuel Rails...Question. I didn't see anything in the FFR Manual about re-using the Fuel Pressure Regulator Damper? I thought on the Subaru fuel system you needed both the regulator and damper in the system?

[mrbiglar]

Great weekend working on the car.

All the brake lines and clutch line run. Using Mike E's, Clutch kit...great set up. Just need to clamp down
http://i.imgur.com/H12OmrJ.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/0387YhN.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/EyI0kZu.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/ebVwiIP.jpg

Front end and Yonaka Radiator mounted as well
http://i.imgur.com/UwOwY97.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/WV0dN7j.jpg

Did anyone have any thoughts on my fuel damper question above?

[Hindsight]

Put in Perrin Fuel Rails...Question. I didn't see anything in the FFR Manual about re-using the Fuel Pressure Regulator Damper? I thought on the Subaru fuel system you needed both the regulator and damper in the system?

You don't really need the dampener. I don't have one and had no issues on the dyno or otherwise. Some of the fuel rails are tapped to allow you to add aftermarket dampeners directly to each rail, which is really the best way to do it, but from what I know, you don't need to worry about that unless you are running big injectors and burning a lot of fuel.

[STiPWRD]

The damper is meant to soften fuel flow under heavy loads (spikes in pressure) so the best place to put it is near the fuel rails as Hindsight mentioned. I connected mine in-line between the fuel filter and fuel rails. I don't know how necessary it is but figured I might as well have it, maybe it depends on your particular fuel setup. I'm running an aeromotive 340 pump, boomba fuel rails and modded top feed 824cc injectors.

[mrbiglar]

I'm running a Wahlbro 255LPH fuel pump and Bosch 900cc injectors. I have the space between the filter and the rails, so mind as well use. Thanks to both of you for responding.

[mrbiglar]

Have not had a chance to post in awhile. Kids are hitting their busy time with sports, etc.

Finished out running the brake and radiator lines. Decided to put heat shielding on the line that runs near the stainless exhaust, just to be safe. Not sure I like how close the radiator line runs to the steering column...will need to go back for that later

http://i.imgur.com/pg37i4u.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/6QeZ0Uz.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/1jMgUMf.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/bPe4XDs.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/lH8smZJ.jpg

I had been avoiding Engine Hose He$$, but decided I couldn't avoid any longer since I needed to put the AWIC kit in. So after half a day, a few runs to the hardware story, and a few choices words, I was able to complete. Decided to go with a Mishimoto expansion tank in the front for the radiators, and ran an ebay special in the back for the engine coolant tank and AWIC overflow. Installed a Catch Can and finished all of the vacuum hoses

http://i.imgur.com/WHGwF5l.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/pycSdf8.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/o7kt5DJ.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/aURcelC.jpg

Am also done installing the Zero DB AWIC kit. The silicone hose was a little tight on the drivers side, but I don't see anywhere it is compressed...good thing I am running the MR2 shifter down the tunnel and back.

http://i.imgur.com/dNDZ8qO.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/7GB2pka.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/yPuKbZF.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/1aNyZzB.jpg

[mrbiglar]

Hey...does anyone know where this vacuum hose goes off of the driver side TGV? Am going to TGV delete later, say after I have an inspection :-)

http://i.imgur.com/dyrWDu2.jpg

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Hey...does anyone know where this vacuum? hose goes off of the driver side TGV? Am going to TGV delete later, say after I have an inspection :-)

http://i.imgur.com/dyrWDu2.jpg

I believe that is the crossover vent that goes to the bigger port on top of the left side valve cover.
Bob

[mrbiglar]

Sorry...been awhile since I posted any progress. Been heads down

Have things to the go cart stage and took her out for a spin. Amazing feeling. I think I have some piston slap going on, but other than that, things went great.

Decided to go with the MR2 Shifter concept some others on the forum did. Complemented this with the Zero DB shifter setup. Very impressed. Craig does great work!
http://imgur.com/dOQ5pl6
http://i.imgur.com/nvnRhpq.jpg

Here are some shots yesterday before I took her out for a first spin
http://i.imgur.com/RYyMDAK.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/CwBp3BK.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/0sZcoYo.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/Lglm8VJ.jpg

Here is the video of my first drive. Awesome experience...although it sounds like I have some piston slap to deal with.
https://youtu.be/FTS3bhJ-MKc

[redfogo]

Looking great!!! P.S. i think you might want to flip your front wheels around :D

[STiPWRD]

Congrats on getting to go cart stage!

[Frank818]

Great looks!

Did you go with the front tires reversed on purpose? :)

BTW awesome tires, I have the same ones, I think they are the best all around for street.

[mrbiglar]

ummm...no. Good catch. Was so focused on everything else I didn't pay attention to how I put them on :-)

[Frank818]

ummm...no. Good catch. Was so focused on everything else I didn't pay attention to how I put them on :-)

HAHAHAH! Now that's really funny, cuz the thread pattern is so obvious and yet you managed to skip it. :)

[wirenut]

What tires are those?

[Frank818]

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Yokohama&tireModel=ADVAN+Neova+AD08+R

[mrbiglar]

Could use help from the group. When engine gets up to temp, only one of the two fans kick in. I know the second fan (passenger side) is good and wired properly because 1) when I went into test mode to reflash it would turn off and on. 2) It kicks in for a second or two on a hot start. Watching the AP in Gauge mode, Fan Switch #1 shows on, but #2 never flips to on.

Do you need to hit a certain temp for both to turn on vs. one? What am I forgetting?

[redfogo]

Put the green connectors together and see if they both turn on. If they don't then you have to start tracing wires see why it's not getting any power or signal.

[idf]

Could use help from the group. When engine gets up to temp, only one of the two fans kick in. I know the second fan (passenger side) is good and wired properly because 1) when I went into test mode to reflash it would turn off and on. 2) It kicks in for a second or two on a hot start. Watching the AP in Gauge mode, Fan Switch #1 shows on, but #2 never flips to on.

Do you need to hit a certain temp for both to turn on vs. one? What am I forgetting?

I'm fairly certain that in the original application the second fan only comes on when the AC is on. You could probably rewire it such that both come on when the driver's side fan is triggered. For what is is worth, my car cooled adequately this summer with ambient temps over 100 with just a single fan.

[walt555]

I'm fairly certain that in the original application the second fan only comes on when the AC is on. You could probably rewire it such that both come on when the driver's side fan is triggered. For what is is worth, my car cooled adequately this summer with ambient temps over 100 with just a single fan.

Great thanks that's a cool weight savings tip. Closing off the second fan will make the single that much more efficient too.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Different years have different functionality.
In 06 WRX when the ecu commanded low speed the two fans were hooked in series but the relays. So you effectively get 6 volt on each fan.
In high speed the relays put 12 volts on each fan.

Here are the rules for 06 wrx

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=61842&d=1481504225

[mrbiglar]

2nd fan works. forgot about for AC engaged. will likely wire together

[mrbiglar]

Could use some help from the group. Trying to finish up my go cart stage and confirming main elements of the mechanicals are good to go.

For some reason I can't get rid of a P1507 (Idle Control System Malfunction Fail Safe) error. I can clear the code, but after about 2-5 minutes of idle on a cold start it comes back. The engine is idling high ~1800-2000 rpm. It is a steady idle and not jumping up and down. Once the code kicks in, idle drops to about 1000 rpm and sound somewhat rough.

Here is what I have done\tried so far:
- Cleaned the IACV and throttle body
- Replaced the IACV with OEM part
- Checked the neutral switch....all good
- Confirmed throttle cable not too tight.
- Can't find any vacuum leaks and PCV seems fine. Removed catch can, just to be safe as well

Thoughts...I am stumped

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Could use some help from the group. Trying to finish up my go cart stage and confirming main elements of the mechanicals are good to go.

For some reason I can't get rid of a P1507 (Idle Control System Malfunction Fail Safe) error. I can clear the code, but after about 2-5 minutes of idle on a cold start it comes back. The engine is idling high ~1800-2000 rpm. It is a steady idle and not jumping up and down. Once the code kicks in, idle drops to about 1000 rpm and sound somewhat rough.

Here is what I have done\tried so far:
- Cleaned the IACV and throttle body
- Replaced the IACV with OEM part
- Checked the neutral switch....all good
- Confirmed throttle cable not too tight.
- Can't find any vacuum leaks and PCV seems fine. Removed catch can, just to be safe as well

Thoughts...I am stumped

It sounds to me like the IAC can't control the engine because of a vacuum leak post throttle body.
Maybe you missed capping on of the vacuum ports.Here is a list that I can think of. May not be named correctly. but there are 5 port on my intake manifold.
1. Brake booster port.
2. Evap system port
3 Purge port
4. Fuel regulator port
5. PCV port

Have you tested your fuel pressure? Should be around 43 psi.

Is this a know good engine when you started?
Bob



.

[mrbiglar]

Known good engine. It is a hybrid rebuild with <50 miles on it.

Double checked the vacuum ports all good

Good idea on the fuel pressure test...Will go there next.

[mrbiglar]

Fuel pressure is good. Any chance the issue could be because it is an aftermarket throttle with a larger opening? Gasket and other elements fit fine, and I don't see any leak areas. Coolant ports are plugged. I let the tuner know about the larger throttle intake and he said he compensated for it.....

Running out of ideas....

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Fuel pressure is good. Any chance the issue could be because it is an aftermarket throttle with a larger opening? Gasket and other elements fit fine, and I don't see any leak areas. Coolant ports are plugged. I let the tuner know about the larger throttle intake and he said he compensated for it.....

Running out of ideas....

I read that a non working neutral switch can cause a P1507. Worth a look.
Bob

[mrbiglar]

Neutral Switch is good. checked it with a Multimeter, and tried a replacement just to be safe......bummer

[AZPete]

I'm hesitant to comment here because Bob is much better at this than I am, but it's sounding like my problem that ended up being a vacuum leak that I found with a smoke test.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?20838-What-caused-this

[mrbiglar]

smoke test is a good idea. Will give it a try just to be sure

[mrbiglar]

Ran the smoke test. Looks like I have a leak around the throttle sensor? That's a new one....thanks for the smoke test tip!

[Frank818]

A leak around the throttle sensor? :confused:

[mrbiglar]

I thought same, but triple checked smoke is coming out around the seal of the TPS??

[mrbiglar]

can an aftermarket throttle body cause a P1507? All the sensors fit well...checking the TPS per above, but rest look good. Intake is larger....

One other interesting tidbit of info. There is a slight hesitation and almost a "miss" when you first touch the accelerator. You have to move the throttle wider open and then it is fine. Thought maybe tied to TPS? Log looks good in that it shows progression on sensor as you increase RPM's

[STiPWRD]

Is your TPS sensor oem or aftermarket? Also, did you check if the sensor is reading the throttle pedal accurately? This can be done with the motor not running but ignition in the on position - just press the pedal and see what the TPS % reads on an engine scanner. Check for any non-linearity and if the sensor reads 0% when not pressed and 100% when fully pressed.

Avoid cheap aftermarket TPS sensors; I bought one and it was junk.

[mrbiglar]

Is OEM. Reads ok, but have another known good OEM coming just to be sure.

My MAF is aftermarket. what is best way to check that?

[STiPWRD]

I'd suggest fixing the TPS leak first and seeing if that solves everything. If not, then it could be the MAF. According to the FSM, the MAF should read 0.3V-4.58V when the engine is running depending on air flow (this corresponds to 1.3 g/s to 240 g/s). Check if you are operating in this range.

6348963490

As far as aftermarket vs OEM MAF, this thread might help:

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?16141-MAF-sensor-options

My take-away is that the MAF is a critical sensor where the slightest bit of mis-calibration could drastically impact the fueling. I've found that cheap aftermarket sensors often have a poor tolerance range on measurement accuracy so I personally would not run an aftermarket MAF. They are very expensive, unfortunately, but I went ahead and bought a new one from Subaru just for that peace of mind. You could also try RockAuto as mentioned in the thread.

[UnhipPopano]

For a Mass Air Flow sensor to work out of the box, the effective cross sectional area needs to be the same as that used for the original tune. Also take into account that for optimal accuracy of the MAF you need several diameters both upstream and down to be straight, but it does not look like the original setup was optimal.

[mrbiglar]

Ok. Here's the update. put a second known good TPS sensor in, just to rule out. Same issue. Checked the TPS % reading. It starts at 0% and stays that way for some of pedal travel. Full throttle full open, it only reads at 85%??. Also replaced the aftermarket MAF, with a known good MAF. Fuel Pressure is showing 38 psi at idle with vacuum connected.

Thoughts? Keep in mind I tried all of the standard items above. I guess the throttle % reading is new, and something to go off of. It is not DBW btw.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Ok. Here's the update. put a second known good TPS sensor in, just to rule out. Same issue. Checked the TPS % reading. It starts at 0% and stays that way for some of pedal travel. Full throttle full open, it only reads at 85%??. Also replaced the aftermarket MAF, with a known good MAF. Fuel Pressure is showing 38 psi at idle with vacuum connected.

Thoughts? Keep in mind I tried all of the standard items above. I guess the throttle % reading is new, and something to go off of. It is not DBW btw.

This is just a thought.
Is it possible that the throttle plate is dirty or worn out and just letting to much air leak by when shut?
Bob

[ben1272]

Ok. Here's the update. put a second known good TPS sensor in, just to rule out. Same issue. Checked the TPS % reading. It starts at 0% and stays that way for some of pedal travel. Full throttle full open, it only reads at 85%??. Also replaced the aftermarket MAF, with a known good MAF. Fuel Pressure is showing 38 psi at idle with vacuum connected.

Thoughts? Keep in mind I tried all of the standard items above. I guess the throttle % reading is new, and something to go off of. It is not DBW btw.


I'm sure this is not the case, but check that you have proper pinout on your TPS harness connector. Mine had been re-wired mirrored to how it should be and caused me problems. I guess some types of tune require re-wiring the TPS so it does happen from time to time. Like I say, probably not your problem, but it only takes a few minutes to check. My car would start and stop immediately with the sensor wired mirrored. The pedal travel worked but the heated wire and thermistor wiring was swapped and caused ECU to shut engine down right after start.

[frankc5r]

Most oem systems report 85% as maximum. In other words, the ecm will use 85% as wot. Its all relative. Not sure about steady 0% at idle end. Use ohmmeter
and check resistance of tps sensor from the slider to one side. It should be a smooth transistion. An analog meter can see jumps showing errors better.

[mrbiglar]

TPS reading error was a fluke. It went away after I reset the ECU. Shows full range now, with no glitches in the range. Outside of the slight hesitation on initial throttle, I actually don't sense any performance issues with the P1507

Fuel pressure shows as 38 psi at idle with vacuum attached

Throttle body is brand new. Out of ideas other than installing the OEM throttle body to see if issues goes away?..... Crazy.

[UnhipPopano]

What is the fuel pressure when you open up the throttle? and does the pressure follow the hesitation or the throttle?

[mrbiglar]

Pressure follows transition of throttle. Went up to 40 at ~3000 rpm

[mrbiglar]

Going to check wiring today just to confirm 5V and continuity. After that, going to put OEM throttle back in and see what happens. Only thing to go on I have left is when I did a smoke test it showed a little leak around the TPS.

[mrbiglar]

Wiring checks out good. Going to leave the P1507 until I get tuned...has to be either tune or throttle body. Thanks all for advice\help above.

As a quick aside, I hooked the original gauge cluster, and no check engine light, like on STI :-) Definitely still there as COBB sees it, but thought interesting.

Doing parts inventory and clean up today, then on to install e brake, tunnel and seats.

[mrbiglar]

Drivers seat and 5 Point Harness in. Still trying to decide how to handle cable for my ebrake solution

[mrbiglar]

Ok...so Lean Condition fixed for sure. Now, I really have trouble getting it to start. Fuel pump primes, turns over, and feel I have spark since sometimes starts.

Read a post about not keeping enough fuel going during crank. I didn't reinstall the Subaru fuel damper on the return line. Any chance this is the cause?? Read a post that said you don't need this if running an after market fuel pressure regulator.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Ok...so Lean Condition fixed for sure. Now, I really have trouble getting it to start. Fuel pump primes, turns over, and feel I have spark since sometimes starts.

Read a post about not keeping enough fuel going during crank. I didn't reinstall the Subaru fuel damper on the return line. Any chance this is the cause?? Read a post that said you don't need this if running an after market fuel pressure regulator.

Not having the fuel damper, is not going to cause the car not to start. (triple negative)

Fuel damper not that important during start. (better)

Is it possible you don't have enough gas in the tank to keep the fuel sock covered?
A fuel pressure gauge would be great. About 43 psi during starting.

Bob

[Frank818]

It takes 4 things to crank an engine:

1- Enough cranking power to spin the crank (battery, starter)
2- Enough good (not bad) fuel (43psi at 3bar, 60psi at 4bar)
3- Enough spark in the correct firing order
4- Enough piston compression (air)

[mrbiglar]

Have not posted for awhile, so thought i would catch the build thread up. Lean Condition was corrected. See the thread below if curious what we discovered.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?24454-Can-t-Shake-a-Lean-Condition-HELP

I mentioned I was still having trouble getting it to start (see last couple posts above). After working through the "normal 4's" (Frank818's list above), I was getting some weird compression numbers on 1 and 2, so decided to pull the oil pan and heads to check gaskets, etc, Found the below...

https://imgur.com/MgLJnol
https://imgur.com/3A5Q5Kc
https://imgur.com/oUwCyTP

Needless to say, I found the issue. Best guess is I overheated (given spot of damage to piston). It's possible foreign matter got in, but didn't find anything. I also had a spun bearing on 2 (hence my noise from early on in my build thread. Lesson learned here is I should have thoroughly inspected the engine when I purchased with the donor.

So....keeping a glass half full mentality, I have the opportunity to do an engine rebuild:-) Been at it for the last couple of months, and most of the way done. Decided to do some upgrades while in the process.

Short Block:
- STI hardened crank and and EJ257 crankcase
- JE Hybrid Pistons
- Manley H Tough Rods
- King XPG Bearings

Heads:
- New EJ20 Heads
- GSC Performance Valves, Springs and seals

Other
-Morosso Oil Pan and Pickup
- Oil Cooler

Oil and Water Pumps were fine after a good cleaning to get all the metal fragments out. Both were new before.

https://imgur.com/GhHOpEL
https://imgur.com/fpyfLhn
https://imgur.com/EhLFTSK
https://imgur.com/ZjigAya
https://imgur.com/XK3ZfLF
https://imgur.com/9G4uWIt
https://imgur.com/1S1Y6c2
https://imgur.com/zgxFo96
https://imgur.com/MiU0IFu

[Frank818]

Oh crap, those pistons are really dead. I'm glad I could help guide you finding the issue!

But yes, in these situations we need to be opportunist and not just replace by a standard rebuild, but improve as well! :) It's worth it on the long run.

[mrbiglar]

A little more work complete on the engine build. Ready to re-mount in the car, and put the top end and exhaust back on. Hope to start it up next weekend!

https://i.imgur.com/rKmRvHP.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/Ro4cu4S.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/bHiGcdQ.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/Is3P6TO.jpg

[turbomacncheese]

I received the same fuel hose. You cut that hose up and really just use the straight sections, one on the bottom to the tank and one on the top to the filler cap.

Looking good.

Skip

Thanks from over here, too!! I spent a lot of time today trying to figure this out!

[mrbiglar]

Top end finished this evening. Finished re-mounting the AWIC, and primed the system with Driven Break in Oil and Coolant. Plan to start for the first time this weekend.

https://imgur.com/yIrOaar
https://imgur.com/rGSna9A
https://imgur.com/Ww9FTGx

[mrbiglar]

Family priorities took me away from the build for awhile....

Did initial start a few weekends ago, and completed my initial two 30 min runs at 2500 rpm and then oil filter change with Driven conventional break in oil.

https://i.imgur.com/yIrOaar.jpg

…..so far so good. Sounds and runs great. It is idling a little rough...likely tune related. Compression on all 4 cylinders is 170 or better. Smoke test shows no vacuum leaks. Exhaust side smoke test was good as well. Fuel pressure right where it should be both at startup and at 3k RPM.

I did switch from the Wahlbro to the DW300…much quieter. I also switched to a Cobb Turbo, and I don’t have a hose running from BOV back to Pre Turbo. I.e. Intake is capped and BOV is Vent to Atmo.

Ready to start sealing the cabin back up, and finish the interior body work. Once I have things broken in a little farther, will head to the dyno.