Wish I would have... please contribute

[wareaglescott]

Hello, I am new here. I am in the research phase but plan on ordering a MK4 in the next 6-9 months
Looking around the forum it looks to be a great resource!

I find a great plan when getting into a project like this is to learn from those that have done it before me.
So if you are willing please contribute to this thread as briefly as extensively as you like on what you wish you would have known going into it, or what looking back on your project you wish you would have done differently.

Thanks in advance for any input!

[stack]

Read everything you can on here. Every question you will have has been answered 100 times before. If you cant find it just ask and someone will be happy to help out.

My tips

Visit as many local area builders as you can. See their projects in all stages of completion. Go for a ride in a completed car. Get some quotes on paint and body work if you don't plan on doing it yourself. If you are lucky enough to live near one of our great forum sponsors use them.

Do not buy a donor car unless you are going to use everything. You are better off buying misc parts you need if you are planning on a new engine and trans.

The complete kit is great if you don't do a donor or want to research and find your own parts.

The manual is a guide. You don't need to do everything in order. You can skip around if you are missing parts or get burned out on a specific task.

Visit the factory. May seem like a no brainier but you are about to drop 20k on a kit. Go check them out

Plan out everything. nothing will cost you more then changing your plans mid build.

You dont need 500hp. If you are not used to that kind of power it will only get you into trouble. You can always upgrade later as you get used to the car

get the powder coat or plan on having someone do it in your area

upgrade the rear suspension to at least a 4 link from FFR with coil overs.

That should get you started

stack

[GSides9]

Start collecting tools that you don't have that you see used here on the forum. We've used a truck load of drill bits just installing aluminum, #30 and #40. I thought installing the running gear would be time consuming require an auto mechanics tool box full of expensive tools. That was easy and took about three work days, no problem with basic hand tools. You will probably still need the box to keep all the other tools organized.

I should have put heat in my garage to stop everything in the garage from sweating when the temperatures here in Pennsylvania continue to swing between 70 and 20 degrees.

21 months in and still loving it, Glen

[Martin]

Keep it simple. Get it driving as fast as possible. You can always upgrade later.
Get your plan, write it down, and don't deviate. You'll quickly double your budget if you do.
If there is an easy option for something you don't like doing, take it. e.g. wiring. Use the Ron Francis wiring loom if you hate wiring, otherwise you'll be stuck on it for months and won't move forward. Or be prepared to pay someone else to do it for you.
It's already been said, but you don't need 500hp. You could start with 300hp and scare yourself silly. Building a car for 500hp will cost a LOT more up front by the time you upgrade the brakes, suspension, fuelling etc. to support the 500hp. You have to be a much higher skilled driver than me to use 500hp.

Use the forums after you've decided your build plan. The forums will help you spend your money faster than you would believe possible.

[68GT500MAN]

Welcome to the forum and your future FFR build.
Doug

[WIS89]

Scott-

Although I am not an Auburn fan, I thought maybe I could offer some help regardless.

There are a number of folks that have created a build plan in an Excel spreadsheet. Essentially the build plan outlines each component of the build, how you plan on developing that component, and the costs involved, including vendors. I also added links to appropriate forum posts on that information. I use mine daily, and have adapted it countless times as I have progressed with the build. It also makes it easy to change or modify. I have made a large number of changes since I began the planning process and transitioned to the build.

The other big thing I would have done is start sooner!! It has been a real joy to build, and I have enjoyed every step!

Feel free to ask lots of questions, and good luck as you round out your plans.

Regards,

Steve

[wareaglescott]

All great info so far. Thank you all for the contributions. Keep them coming please.

[wareaglescott]

I came across a map in another area that showed were 818 builders were. Is there such a map for the MK4?
I would love to visit a few builders and see their cars. I have made contact with one forum member I plan to visit but would like to find some more.

[MPTech]

Join a local Cobra Club, this is your BEST resource and you can get first-hand experience, maybe even help someone else with their build.

I highly recommend against using donor:
> master cylinder (been there done that, replaced it in less than 3 months after licensing)
> power steering rack
> brake calipers
> radiator
> fuel tank, pump, and sending unit
> wiring

all of these items are going to be 20-ish years old and probably past their life-span. Some would be a Major PITA to replace after the body is on (Wiring!! radiator, master cylinder, fuel tank, etc)

were you planning a Base-kit or Complete-kit?

[Gumball]

I want to contribute to this thread, but I don't have any "I wish I had..." stories as part of my build. So, I guess what I can add is that you should spend time deciding what you want and how your car looks to you in your head, then build to that. As for the build itself, take is slow and be willing to change things as you go along. In the end, after a five year build, I have exactly what I wanted and would not change a thing.

[wareaglescott]

Join a local Cobra Club, this is your BEST resource and you can get first-hand experience, maybe even help someone else with their build.

I highly recommend against using donor:
> master cylinder (been there done that, replaced it in less than 3 months after licensing)
> power steering rack
> brake calipers
> radiator
> fuel tank, pump, and sending unit
> wiring

all of these items are going to be 20-ish years old and probably past their life-span. Some would be a Major PITA to replace after the body is on (Wiring!! radiator, master cylinder, fuel tank, etc)

were you planning a Base-kit or Complete-kit?

Complete kit for sure

[Olli]

Why not list your location in your profile?

Olli

[Jacob McCrea]

A mistake I made a few times was buying parts before I was 100% sure that I would use them, like a master cylinder I later gave away after switching to a Wilwood pedal box, or the upgraded Mustang fuel pump that I bought before deciding to use a racing fuel cell. Part of the problem was my lack of knowledge. In any case, I try not to buy parts unless I am ready to install them upon arrival and am comfortable that I won't change my mind. Welcome and good luck; we are here to help.

[wareaglescott]

Why not list your location in your profile?

Olli

I would love to list my location. The forum dictates you have 20 posts before you can edit your profile. I tried earlier and was not allowed.
I live in Auburn, AL

[wareaglescott]

A mistake I made a few times was buying parts before I was 100% sure that I would use them, like a master cylinder I later gave away after switching to a Wilwood pedal box, or the upgraded Mustang fuel pump that I bought before deciding to use a racing fuel cell. Part of the problem was my lack of knowledge. In any case, I try not to buy parts unless I am ready to install them upon arrival and am comfortable that I won't change my mind. Welcome and good luck; we are here to help.
This is a good thought. Thanks

[wareaglescott]

Has anyone attended the build school and can you speak to the value of it?

[Al_C]

I highly recommend build school. worth every penny and then some. It will build your confidence, if nothing else. Also, get a mentor (already said...) maybe two or three. I'm happy with my choices - the only thing I would change would be red calipers instead of black. Pretty trivial, right? I'm enjoying every minute of it.

[GoDadGo]

1. Order the Paper Manual & Read It!
2. Then Read It Again!
3. Then Look At The Factory Five Assembly Videos!
(I think there are 12 or 13 at this point.)
4. Then read the manual one more time just for fun
5. Dig through the galleries of members of this forum who have done multiple builds.
(Many Of These Fellows Are Factory Five Artist At This Point)
6. Then go to the build school if you have any doubts because it will be money well spent.

Good Luck & Hope You Join Us For Some Factory Five Fun!

[Jazzman]

I had been making just such a list for later posting, but you beat me to the punch! I know there will be more later, but here is a start.

Things I wish I had known before I started my build: (Or, “Things I learned along the way using the time tested “Ask me how I know” method!)
General Items:
1. Really read the manual thoroughly. (I know, seems obvious, but I missed things that would have made the process easier.) Highlight the important parts.
2. Take a lot of pictures as you take the kit apart. Take more angles of photos. Take photos of corners and points where the panels meet. When you think you have enough photos, take some from a higher and lower angle to be sure you can see what you mean to see, as well as see other things in the background that you didn’t know you needed to see! Now take more pictures.
3. Grease guns and greased fittings drip.
4. If you don’t already have a torque wrench, buy one that goes up to 250 lbs. You’ll need it.
5. If the directions say to torque a bolt in “inch-pounds” be very, very Careful!!
6. An air powered rivet gun is a nice tool, but not really necessary unless you plan to build many of these vehicles. A hand powered rivet tool is just fine and much cheaper.
7. If a hole has been powder coated, chase the hole with the appropriate size drill bit to make bolts slide right in.
8. Red Loctite should be used very, very carefully. If you are not sure if you are absolutely done accessing that part, don’t use it! Once it gets hard, it is something close to impossible to remove. (They tell me it can be done, but I have yet to have success doing so!)
IRS:
1. Be sure to enlarge the two rear holes on the differential BEFORE you try to install it. Yes, It says to do this in the manual, but I forgot!
2. Install the mounting brackets for the rear anti-sway bar using the longer bolts the first time you attach the toe arms. This will save you from doing the same task three times!
3. Rustoeleum paint, even the good stuff designed for high heat automotive use, is not as good as POR-15. The latter gives a much more durable “almost powder coated” appearance.

Sheet Aluminum Panels:
1. Get all your powder coating done at once. It seems to save you some money since they don’t have to clean out their gun multiple times, and it saves you time not having to wait to powder coat parts you forgot you needed to cover.
2. I found very few aluminum panels that powder coating made more difficult to install. I found a lot of them that I originally thought I would not powder coat and decided later that to make everything look very finished and professional I would powder coat them. If you plan to powdercoat, bite the bullet and get it all done at once.
3. If you are going to use insulation mats on either side of the panels, make cardboard templates or actual cut sheets of insulation for each panel before you install them. It makes it much easier to get the insulation smooth and there are some areas you just cannot reach after they are installed. I installed a large number of the insulation mats before I attached the panels.
4. Drill all your rivet holes as you take the panels off. It slows the deconstruction phase, but makes powder coating and reinstallation much easier.
a. Remove the panel
b. mark where the holes go
c. drill the holes
d. reinstall the part
e. mark the parts it intersects with
f. Remove the adjacent piece and drill their holes.
5. If you are using a “drive by wire” motor such as the Coyote, and a hydraulic clutch, ask FFR to send you a Drivers side Footbox front panel that does not have all the extra holes in it. It is pain to have to make and install covers for all the extra holes, and it doesn’t look as nice. Hey Factory Five, this might be a good “no cost” option to offer right during the order process.
6. If you are not going to be using an automatic transmission, or you don’t need to the transmission inspection port on the drivers side floor panel (against the transmission tunnel), install the inspection port plug before you have the panel powder coated.

I am sure there will be more, but I hope that helps. I know some of them are repeats of other comments, so they must be right and important.

[wareaglescott]

1. Order the Paper Manual & Read It!
2. Then Read It Again!
3. Then Look At The Factory Five Assembly Videos!
(I think there are 12 or 13 at this point.)
4. Then read the manual one more time just for fun
5. Dig through the galleries of members of this forum who have done multiple builds.
(Many Of These Fellow Are Factory Five Artist At This Point)
6. Then go to the build school if you have any doubts because it will be money well spent.

Good Luck & Hope You Join Us For Some Factory Five Fun!

good thought on ordering the manual ahead of time. thanks

[wareaglescott]

I had been making just such a list for later posting, but you beat me to the punch! I know there will be more later, but here is a start.

Things I wish I had known before I started my build: (Or, “Things I learned along the way using the time tested “Ask me how I know” method!)
General Items:
1. Really read the manual thoroughly. (I know, seems obvious, but I missed things that would have made the process easier.) Highlight the important parts.
2. Take a lot of pictures as you take the kit apart. Take more angles of photos. Take photos of corners and points where the panels meet. When you think you have enough photos, take some from a higher and lower angle to be sure you can see what you mean to see, as well as see other things in the background that you didn’t know you needed to see! Now take more pictures.
3. Grease guns and greased fittings drip.
4. If you don’t already have a torque wrench, buy one that goes up to 250 lbs. You’ll need it.
5. If the directions say to torque a bolt in “inch-pounds” be very, very Careful!!
6. An air powered rivet gun is a nice tool, but not really necessary unless you plan to build many of these vehicles. A hand powered rivet tool is just fine and much cheaper.
7. If a hole has been powder coated, chase the hole with the appropriate size drill bit to make bolts slide right in.
8. Red Loctite should be used very, very carefully. If you are not sure if you are absolutely done accessing that part, don’t use it! Once it gets hard, it is something close to impossible to remove. (They tell me it can be done, but I have yet to have success doing so!)
IRS:
1. Be sure to enlarge the two rear holes on the differential BEFORE you try to install it. Yes, It says to do this in the manual, but I forgot!
2. Install the mounting brackets for the rear anti-sway bar using the longer bolts the first time you attach the toe arms. This will save you from doing the same task three times!
3. Rustoeleum paint, even the good stuff designed for high heat automotive use, is not as good as POR-15. The latter gives a much more durable “almost powder coated” appearance.

Sheet Aluminum Panels:
1. Get all your powder coating done at once. It seems to save you some money since they don’t have to clean out their gun multiple times, and it saves you time not having to wait to powder coat parts you forgot you needed to cover.
2. I found very few aluminum panels that powder coating made more difficult to install. I found a lot of them that I originally thought I would not powder coat and decided later that to make everything look very finished and professional I would powder coat them. If you plan to powdercoat, bite the bullet and get it all done at once.
3. If you are going to use insulation mats on either side of the panels, make cardboard templates or actual cut sheets of insulation for each panel before you install them. It makes it much easier to get the insulation smooth and there are some areas you just cannot reach after they are installed. I installed a large number of the insulation mats before I attached the panels.
4. Drill all your rivet holes as you take the panels off. It slows the deconstruction phase, but makes powder coating and reinstallation much easier.
a. Remove the panel
b. mark where the holes go
c. drill the holes
d. reinstall the part
e. mark the parts it intersects with
f. Remove the adjacent piece and drill their holes.
5. If you are using a “drive by wire” motor such as the Coyote, and a hydraulic clutch, ask FFR to send you a Drivers side Footbox front panel that does not have all the extra holes in it. It is pain to have to make and install covers for all the extra holes, and it doesn’t look as nice. Hey Factory Five, this might be a good “no cost” option to offer right during the order process.
6. If you are not going to be using an automatic transmission, or you don’t need to the transmission inspection port on the drivers side floor panel (against the transmission tunnel), install the inspection port plug before you have the panel powder coated.

I am sure there will be more, but I hope that helps. I know some of them are repeats of other comments, so they must be right and important.


Great info! Thank you very much!

[edwardb]

good thought on ordering the manual ahead of time. thanks

If you didn't know already, the manual is available in electronic form for $10. You can order it on Factory Five's website and you will immediately get the link and be able to download. Saves a tree or two plus I like the ability to do quick searches in the file. Note the base kit manual talks a lot about a donor build. If you're not doing a donor build, and even if not buying a complete kit, I would still suggest the complete kit manual. It shows the build with all new parts. http://www.factoryfiveparts.com/assembly-manual/

[edwardb]

Guys are sharing some great suggestions. Looking back at my first build, there were a couple of major lessons learned for me. The Mk3 was purchased already started by a pro builder, so that was a huge boost for me with zero experience. I bought it because it was something I always wanted to do, and don't regret it for a minute. The experience has been a blast. The two big takeaways from the build, though, were: (1) I completely blew my budget for paint because I just had no idea. Do your homework on that one. The range is all over depending on what you're looking for, DIY or not, available shops, etc. The range could be from $1-2K for materials and a DIY to easily well north of $10K for custom show quality. And everything in between. (2) Do your homework for your engine. After my experience (I'll spare the details) I would stay with an established builder and ideally someone close or even local. There are a lot of shady engine builders out there, or shops that don't stand behind their work. If you go with a crate motor, check how the warranty works. Some start the minute you take delivery, others are more generous and start when you start it for the first time. Regardless, even with a warranty, having to do a warranty claim, return the engine, etc. is needless to say a big deal. Best to do everything possible to avoid in the first place. That means picking the right supplier.

My biggest single suggestion is to find local owners or builders, or even take the time to go to large out of town shows, like London, Ohio. Pick the brains of the owners (we like to share) and take tons of pictures. I spent one London show taking pictures of only sun visor and wind wings mounting. Crazy I know. But there are many variations. Another of bumper and overrider installations. Don't expect anyone to let you drive their car (I sure don't) but we love to give rides. Everything helps as you make decisions about your build.

[GoDadGo]

If you didn't know already, the manual is available in electronic form for $10. You can order it on Factory Five's website and you will immediately get the link and be able to download. Saves a tree or two plus I like the ability to do quick searches in the file. Note the base kit manual talks a lot about a donor build. If you're not doing a donor build, and even if not buying a complete kit, I would still suggest the complete kit manual. It shows the build with all new parts. http://www.factoryfiveparts.com/assembly-manual/

Hey Edward B,
I referenced the "Paper Manual" because I'm the only fellow left on this planet who still uses a flip phone.
When I call any of my kids or wife, their ring tones are all set to "Simple Man" by Lynard Skynard for obvious reasons.

To The Rest Of The Forum,
Type Slowly Y'all Because I'm From The South!

Have A Great Day & Remember To Make Good Use Of Every Day That God Gives You!

Steve > aka: GoDadGo

[wareaglescott]

If you didn't know already, the manual is available in electronic form for $10. You can order it on Factory Five's website and you will immediately get the link and be able to download. Saves a tree or two plus I like the ability to do quick searches in the file. Note the base kit manual talks a lot about a donor build. If you're not doing a donor build, and even if not buying a complete kit, I would still suggest the complete kit manual. It shows the build with all new parts. http://www.factoryfiveparts.com/assembly-manual/

I saw the online version but ended up ordering the paper version cause I like to have one I can mark up. The $14 shipping was more than the online version costs! I guess I am already blowing the budget. haha

[Jeff Kleiner]

As an FYI; you get a paper version with the kit. Electronic might serve you well for preliminary research.

Jeff

[AZPete]

All the stuff above is good, but they missed one important tip:
NO DEADLINE!
Don't give anybody, especially your wife, any completion date or even an estimate. Schedules are for work and this is for fun.

[pcww]

In no particular order:
1. Figure out who the gurus are on this forum who really know what they are doing and who generously share their help. Edward B, Jeff Kleiner, Crzn 427 , Mark Doughtery, Da Bat , David Hodgins are a few. You will figure this out on your on but this is a start. These guys will answer questions without making you feel like an idiot. And if they say it take it to the bank. Literally.
2.Get a fairly good headlamp. I only discovered this late in the build. After I ran out of patience with flashlights and my wife holding some type of lighting.
3. Build school is great for realizing that you can really do this. It will also show you that if you stick to what is in the manual building these cars is incredibly easy and quick. That is the good news. The bad news is nobody does it. Everybody has to get this gizmo or that and it adds exponentially to the cost, complexity and time. But you may not be able to control yourself. I could not.
4. I am no engine expert but I recommend the Ford Racing Factory engines. Good range of power and selection, at least when I bought summer of 2014. The next selection would be a really established building like Keith Craft or Fordstrokers. No personal experience but they seem to have a good rep. I have 464 h.p. on a somewhat mild 427W and it is way more than I need or use.
5.Powder coating a must and the suggestions on drilling as you take aluminum are spot on.
6. I bought an Ingersoll Rand air riveter and would recommend. A lot of folks like the Harbor Freight knockoff .
7.If you have a tap and die set use the thread count that came with it to keep track of nuts and bolts.
8. Speaking of nuts and bolts get some multi compartment storage cases, can't have too many, and stock up on all kinds of nuts, bolts etc. I finished my car in October and still go to my stash regularly.
9. If you can purchase a part on Amazon do it. I like Summit okay but the shipping is crazy.
10. Don't get knockoffs. I have them and love the look . Really a pain to maintain and pain if you have a flat.
11. I will always regret not having 15" wheels but know I did the right thing by buying 17". Much safer and better selection.
12. Spend a bunch of time on seat selection. I am 6'4" and wound up with Kirkeys which I really like. I built out the driver box a little and used the Kleiner mod on the P/S. Great deal. If I had to do it over I would also drop the D/S floor a couple of inches more.
13. Just my two cents but skip the radio. You cannot hear yourself think much less listen to music.
14. Add a USB outlet. You will need it and it is no big deal to mount under dash.
15. Consider Fuel Injection. Plug and play. Helps if you live in mountains or plan to.
16. If you can get to someone who has built one to help you have it made. I am dying to do another one now that I "know how to do it". I did have help and it made a tremendous difference.
17. use weatherpack electrical connectors. Tools are pricey but neat finish.
18. If cost a consideration you can monitor the classifieds.
19. After a weekend spent changing out the FFR glass windshield for the Lexan from Fast Freddie i would skip the FFR from the beginning. Mine cracked from the visors and cracked for no apparent reason also.
20. Must have is power steering . I would do the Breeze setup in toto. I have manual brakes, Levy , and do not feel I need power there.
21. I would go with new Tremec T 600 if possible for the tranny. Most seem to say the T 5 works but I would lean to the 600.
22. From the forum only , no real experience with donor, i would definitely recommend the complete kit. A large number of posts are spent on mix and matching donor parts. Just me.

The most fun I had during the build was when I switched a front steering component on the wrong side and had to start over. Very humbling. Good luck. I am only four hours away if you want to come to the coast to check mine out. Wayne Pressley another guru is close to you in Enterprise and he really knows what these cars are all about. He painted mine well for a fair price. Ask Eric Treves in Huntsville also.
Henry

[wareaglescott]

In no particular order:
1. Figure out who the gurus are on this forum who really know what they are doing and who generously share their help. Edward B, Jeff Kleiner, Crzn 427 , Mark Doughtery, Da Bat , David Hodgins are a few. You will figure this out on your on but this is a start. These guys will answer questions without making you feel like an idiot. And if they say it take it to the bank. Literally.
2.Get a fairly good headlamp. I only discovered this late in the build. After I ran out of patience with flashlights and my wife holding some type of lighting.
3. Build school is great for realizing that you can really do this. It will also show you that if you stick to what is in the manual building these cars is incredibly easy and quick. That is the good news. The bad news is nobody does it. Everybody has to get this gizmo or that and it adds exponentially to the cost, complexity and time. But you may not be able to control yourself. I could not.
4. I am no engine expert but I recommend the Ford Racing Factory engines. Good range of power and selection, at least when I bought summer of 2014. The next selection would be a really established building like Keith Craft or Fordstrokers. No personal experience but they seem to have a good rep. I have 464 h.p. on a somewhat mild 427W and it is way more than I need or use.
5.Powder coating a must and the suggestions on drilling as you take aluminum are spot on.
6. I bought an Ingersoll Rand air riveter and would recommend. A lot of folks like the Harbor Freight knockoff .
7.If you have a tap and die set use the thread count that came with it to keep track of nuts and bolts.
8. Speaking of nuts and bolts get some multi compartment storage cases, can't have too many, and stock up on all kinds of nuts, bolts etc. I finished my car in October and still go to my stash regularly.
9. If you can purchase a part on Amazon do it. I like Summit okay but the shipping is crazy.
10. Don't get knockoffs. I have them and love the look . Really a pain to maintain and pain if you have a flat.
11. I will always regret not having 15" wheels but know I did the right thing by buying 17". Much safer and better selection.
12. Spend a bunch of time on seat selection. I am 6'4" and wound up with Kirkeys which I really like. I built out the driver box a little and used the Kleiner mod on the P/S. Great deal. If I had to do it over I would also drop the D/S floor a couple of inches more.
13. Just my two cents but skip the radio. You cannot hear yourself think much less listen to music.
14. Add a USB outlet. You will need it and it is no big deal to mount under dash.
15. Consider Fuel Injection. Plug and play. Helps if you live in mountains or plan to.
16. If you can get to someone who has built one to help you have it made. I am dying to do another one now that I "know how to do it". I did have help and it made a tremendous difference.
17. use weatherpack electrical connectors. Tools are pricey but neat finish.
18. If cost a consideration you can monitor the classifieds.
19. After a weekend spent changing out the FFR glass windshield for the Lexan from Fast Freddie i would skip the FFR from the beginning. Mine cracked from the visors and cracked for no apparent reason also.
20. Must have is power steering . I would do the Breeze setup in toto. I have manual brakes, Levy , and do not feel I need power there.
21. I would go with new Tremec T 600 if possible for the tranny. Most seem to say the T 5 works but I would lean to the 600.
22. From the forum only , no real experience with donor, i would definitely recommend the complete kit. A large number of posts are spent on mix and matching donor parts. Just me.

The most fun I had during the build was when I switched a front steering component on the wrong side and had to start over. Very humbling. Good luck. I am only four hours away if you want to come to the coast to check mine out. Wayne Pressley another guru is close to you in Enterprise and he really knows what these cars are all about. He painted mine well for a fair price. Ask Eric Treves in Huntsville also.
Henry

Great info. Thanks! Sent you a PM

[MisterAdam]

great info here!! i wish a had spent a little more time cleaning up the electrical. Little by little i am redoing crimps and adding heat shrink. they look much cleaner and are more tolerant to weather although i hope they never see rain. I know the dash wiring is hidden but i could have done a better job, mine is not too bad but could be better. Also take tons of pictures even of the smallest detail.....pictures these days are cheap.
Wish i had the headlamp (not headlight) mentioned above.....now i am sure to get one for fathers day!!

[russelljones48]

I don't see much on your thoughts about your car. I would encourage you to (as some others have) figure out as much as possible the type of "Cobra" you want. Do you want a "tribute" car, is a big block important?? Will you just be cruisin' or do you want to autocross and drive hard? What's your budget? And as others have asked, what do you want to "do" in the build? I think you also need to assess your skills. Are you a novice? Are you, like me, an "intermediate" but really rusty etc. There are a LOT of choices to make with this car and virtually every one is unique. I will give you an example. I REALLY wanted to build my engine but after doing some pretty extensive research decided to go with a Ford Racing Coyote crate motor. That was a big switch made before I ordered my car. BUT that choice will actually save me money and time and is more in line with my "vision" of my car - minimalist and more modern.

Here's my "lessons learned" and "I wish I'd knowns"

Find the "experts" on the forums and look for the facts in other posts before making choices based on forum information. Use both FFR forums. And other forums - I find some of the Mustang and Garage forums very helpful.

See if you can find some "buddies" either online or locally who are building roughly the same car you are at the same time. I have 3: 1 "online" buddy and 1 local buddy and it has been very helpful to have the benefit of their experience and research as we go through our respective builds. I also have a neighbor who built an Mark I who is a wizard. I hope they see the same value in communicating with me.

I'm very lucky, I have an FFR pro builder within an hours drive (Whitby). They are an INVALUABLE resource. If you don't have one close find out where/when they go to shows and fairs and stalk them :-) There are also some online vendors who are VERY giving of their time and experience - they've been mentioned but I'm particularly grateful to Richard of North Race cars and Jeff Kleiner.

Seeing a picture is not the same as seeing a car. There are some great build threads on these forums but I often don't get what's going on until I can see it. (Edwardb may be the best documenter and photographer on these boards) So, all the prior advice about finding cars close to you is IMHO very important.

Small things can take weeks to figure out. Small changes can take weeks to research and fabricate. I have modified the frame around the pedal box and built a removable IRS pumpkin mount and they took a LOT of time to figure out - not so much time to fabricate but the total process was weeks to research, decide, design and build. I'm now fabbing my second set of engine installation brackets for the Coyote.....

If I had it to do over again what would I do differently?

If you don't do the complete kit - (I didn't) I would research more on each system e.g. cooling, fuel, braking etc.

Install almost all your panels with Clecos (this came from Richard) and work out the bugs and placement before you rivet.

Take notes on everything as you go. I sometimes have to spend hours re-researching a part or some installation tip and the forums are not the easiest sources to navigate. I have an extensive spreadsheet as well as my "build book" of notes.

POR 15 - mentioned earlier - will be your friend - it's an amazing (but expensive) product. Find and buy the very small cans since it doesn't store well. I wasted a quart before I located the little cans. It brushes on really well. There are many other products on the market like "Shark Hide" so search the boards when you need a specific solution. I bought a bunch of rattle cans before I started and they're still on the shelf.

OMG - TOOLS!@$ I blew my budget for tools in the first 3 months. Some of mine were old and needed replacement (torque wrenches) and I had more than the basics from years of repair and restoration work but the tool world has changed. For instance: I decided to go with SS brake lines. The tubing benders, flairing kit, and tubing straightener were in the $500 range. My general finding here is that you may do a fair amount of fabrication type work and that requires a different set of tools than general automotive repair. Another example: I want to paint my own car. I have an 8 HP dual stage compressor and many (or most) of the needed bodywork and air tools but my old spray guns are obsolete and need replacement. I also need a gun for primer and a good finish gun... so at least 2 new guns - another $500.

Find good and inexpensive online and local general suppliers. I have a local old-style hardware store that has virtually all the nuts, bolts, and pieces I need - Lowes and Home Depot are NOT good sources IMHO. I use Mcmaster and some other specialty suppliers (for AN fittings as an example) that are MUCH cheaper than JEGS, Summit etc. for those kinds of parts. It took me a while to figure out what I needed "on hand" so I'm just now stocking my bins (1 year into my build).

Think about replacing some of the FFR parts. On good advice I replaced all of the supplied rivets with steel shanked rivets. This may be overkill but the steel shanks just install better. I also replaced almost all of my suspension bolts because the supplied bolts often have moving parts riding on threads. There are also instances where bolts and nuts with flange heads are a better choice than standard bolts and nuts with washers. I plan on driving my car pretty hard and am therefore quite "fussy" about the suspension :-).

Hope this has helped. I like the post about NOT setting deadlines - I'm at least 6 months behind on my original schedule but life does interfere as it should... Good luck.

[wareaglescott]

I don't see much on your thoughts about your car. I would encourage you to (as some others have) figure out as much as possible the type of "Cobra" you want. Do you want a "tribute" car, is a big block important?? Will you just be cruisin' or do you want to autocross and drive hard? What's your budget? And as others have asked, what do you want to "do" in the build? I think you also need to assess your skills. Are you a novice? Are you, like me, an "intermediate" but really rusty etc. There are a LOT of choices to make with this car and virtually every one is unique. I will give you an example. I REALLY wanted to build my engine but after doing some pretty extensive research decided to go with a Ford Racing Coyote crate motor. That was a big switch made before I ordered my car. BUT that choice will actually save me money and time and is more in line with my "vision" of my car - minimalist and more modern.

Here's my "lessons learned" and "I wish I'd knowns"

Find the "experts" on the forums and look for the facts in other posts before making choices based on forum information. Use both FFR forums. And other forums - I find some of the Mustang and Garage forums very helpful.

See if you can find some "buddies" either online or locally who are building roughly the same car you are at the same time. I have 3: 1 "online" buddy and 1 local buddy and it has been very helpful to have the benefit of their experience and research as we go through our respective builds. I also have a neighbor who built an Mark I who is a wizard. I hope they see the same value in communicating with me.

I'm very lucky, I have an FFR pro builder within an hours drive (Whitby). They are an INVALUABLE resource. If you don't have one close find out where/when they go to shows and fairs and stalk them :-) There are also some online vendors who are VERY giving of their time and experience - they've been mentioned but I'm particularly grateful to Richard of North Race cars and Jeff Kleiner.

Seeing a picture is not the same as seeing a car. There are some great build threads on these forums but I often don't get what's going on until I can see it. (Edwardb may be the best documenter and photographer on these boards) So, all the prior advice about finding cars close to you is IMHO very important.

Small things can take weeks to figure out. Small changes can take weeks to research and fabricate. I have modified the frame around the pedal box and built a removable IRS pumpkin mount and they took a LOT of time to figure out - not so much time to fabricate but the total process was weeks to research, decide, design and build. I'm now fabbing my second set of engine installation brackets for the Coyote.....

If I had it to do over again what would I do differently?

If you don't do the complete kit - (I didn't) I would research more on each system e.g. cooling, fuel, braking etc.

Install almost all your panels with Clecos (this came from Richard) and work out the bugs and placement before you rivet.

Take notes on everything as you go. I sometimes have to spend hours re-researching a part or some installation tip and the forums are not the easiest sources to navigate. I have an extensive spreadsheet as well as my "build book" of notes.

POR 15 - mentioned earlier - will be your friend - it's an amazing (but expensive) product. Find and buy the very small cans since it doesn't store well. I wasted a quart before I located the little cans. It brushes on really well. There are many other products on the market like "Shark Hide" so search the boards when you need a specific solution. I bought a bunch of rattle cans before I started and they're still on the shelf.

OMG - TOOLS!@$ I blew my budget for tools in the first 3 months. Some of mine were old and needed replacement (torque wrenches) and I had more than the basics from years of repair and restoration work but the tool world has changed. For instance: I decided to go with SS brake lines. The tubing benders, flairing kit, and tubing straightener were in the $500 range. My general finding here is that you may do a fair amount of fabrication type work and that requires a different set of tools than general automotive repair. Another example: I want to paint my own car. I have an 8 HP dual stage compressor and many (or most) of the needed bodywork and air tools but my old spray guns are obsolete and need replacement. I also need a gun for primer and a good finish gun... so at least 2 new guns - another $500.

Find good and inexpensive online and local general suppliers. I have a local old-style hardware store that has virtually all the nuts, bolts, and pieces I need - Lowes and Home Depot are NOT good sources IMHO. I use Mcmaster and some other specialty suppliers (for AN fittings as an example) that are MUCH cheaper than JEGS, Summit etc. for those kinds of parts. It took me a while to figure out what I needed "on hand" so I'm just now stocking my bins (1 year into my build).

Think about replacing some of the FFR parts. On good advice I replaced all of the supplied rivets with steel shanked rivets. This may be overkill but the steel shanks just install better. I also replaced almost all of my suspension bolts because the supplied bolts often have moving parts riding on threads. There are also instances where bolts and nuts with flange heads are a better choice than standard bolts and nuts with washers. I plan on driving my car pretty hard and am therefore quite "fussy" about the suspension :-).

Hope this has helped. I like the post about NOT setting deadlines - I'm at least 6 months behind on my original schedule but life does interfere as it should... Good luck.

Good info thanks. You don't see my thoughts on my car yet because I am so early in the research process I don't have a plan yet. I know I am interested in a complete kit for sure. My first priority is to find one of these to sit in and figure out if I can fit comfortably! I appreciate your input.

[Jacob McCrea]

"POR 15 - mentioned earlier - will be your friend - it's an amazing (but expensive) product. Find and buy the very small cans since it doesn't store well."

This is true, but if you put a piece of saran wrap between the can and the lid before you close the lid, and store the can in the fridge, it will last for a really long time.

[mikeinatlanta]

Here goes. Been building for 12 years so I have had lots of time for regrets.

First: Be very settled with what you want. Opinions are strong and no matter what you decide there will be those who won’t like it, so make sure you are comfortable with you choice of where your car is in the world of replica cobras.

For me, I chose to go all in for performance, and it has been a costly decision. Along my path, my mistakes have been not thoroughly researching what I want or need to meet my objectives. Next big issue is buying into changing technology without providing for the inevitable changes.

Wiring: Bought and regret I-Squared, the predecessor to ISIS. The big mistake was buying a fancy harness that is only useful as long as it gets manufacturer support. Fine for some things, but not a harness. Ended up selling it to those in need of spare parts and going with aircraft style wiring. In the end, the FFR supplied harness would have been better than I-squared.

Carb: Bought a carb before realizing how limited it would be at the extreme limits of the car. Ended up selling at a loss and buying injection.
Injection: Computers are changing at a rapid pace and whatever you buy will be outdated very quickly. Make sure you can accommodate upgraded computers.

Distributor: Not needed with modern fuel injection systems. If you are ok with higher performance and your motor looking totally badass, go modern and save your money for coil packs and an external oil pump.

Torque stripe: Looks great right up until you start retorqueing the hardware. Doesn’t look so good then. Instead, I suggest a checklist to “nut and bolt” the car on a regular basis. Many of the suspension components are race parts and need frequent checking anyway.

Brakes: Not to start a big debate, however, don’t expect high end braking with cheap OE components. Also: Don’t expect high end braking when you “upgrade” to the cheapest aftermarket brake components available. If you want real race brakes I suggest going to a true professional level road race and walk around the pits. Some brands of cheap “race” brakes will be noticeably absent, and for good reason. Race teams don’t blow money for no reason and if the cheap stuff worked well it would be on their cars. That said, nothing wrong with the cheap stuff if expectations are realistic. The good stuff is available for our cars, you just have to ask for, and be willing to pay for it.

[wareaglescott]

Thanks mikeinatlanta. Sent you a PM

[russelljones48]

I would echo Mike's comments on brakes and like Mike I am using a very custom set up with pro brakes. The brakes that come with the complete kit have some compromises and I discovered sadly :-( that my front calipers wouldn't fit the FFR wheels. Some upgrades require spacers etc... The Roadster also has unique weight distribution (~50/50) that can make stock systems somewhat incompatible. That said my research showed that many of the FFR spec racers use Mustang components so you'll get lots of advice... IMHO a car capable of 3-4 second 0-60 times and an 11 second 1/4 mile NEEDS very good brakes.

[GoDadGo]

I've gone the exact opposite with my build, but my car will be a Highway Cruiser with some occasional auto crossing and 1/4 mile drag strip duty.

For me the ultimate MK-4 means simplicity, serviceability, but with a big focus on dependability. My engine is rather low tech 383 SBC with only 9.7 to 1 compression ratio and has Dart Iron Eagle Heads. Below is an internally balanced forged crank, H-beam rods with forged floating Mahl pistons. The transmission is a New Old Stock C-4 Corvette ZF-6-Speed and the differential is a Moser TSD-500, which is based on a Dana 44 and has an Easton Style Sure Track Posi. Brakes are standard Mustang front with Ford Explorer bringing up the rear.

While many go Hi-Tech, I've gone in the opposite direction because I understand everything about my build. Heck, I even moved the fuse panel to make it easier to get to plus it really cleaned up the foot box so servicing the brake and clutch master cylinders is a snap.

My advice is create a Blue-Print & Spec Sheet for your car and then stick to it. Build a car that you are happy with and can live with too. You Can Do This & Can Pull Off A Really Nice Car! Just Remember It Will Take Some Time & Money Too!

Good Luck!

Steve

[John J Phillips]

This is just an outstanding source of great information. I am about a year into the build and had to smile at so many of the comments - been there, done that. I wish I had seen something similar before I started. Even now, information I can use as I continue. Thanks for all the great contributions.

[Martin]

Good info thanks. You don't see my thoughts on my car yet because I am so early in the research process I don't have a plan yet. I know I am interested in a complete kit for sure. My first priority is to find one of these to sit in and figure out if I can fit comfortably! I appreciate your input.

Don't get it on your hands, or anywhere near your skin. That stuff won't come off for weeks. I spent 3 weeks scrubbing my arms with a steelo and it still wouldn't come off. Having said that, much more durable than powder coating, can be easily touched up if the need ever arises and tough as anything. I have no regrets about using it.

I had black gloves up to my elbows... trust me, it doesn't come off. I couldn't even feel the steelo pad scrubbing away.

Martin

[GoDadGo]

Good/Great Information Regarding The POR-15 Coating!
Never messed with the stuff, but am glad to now know.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Way back in the really early days (when the original "Cobraforum.com" was all we had and before FFR offered powdercoating) one of the guys confessed that he was using POR when nature called. You can probably guess the rest...

Jeff

[GoDadGo]

Way back in the really early days (when the original "Cobraforum.com" was all we had and before FFR offered powdercoating) one of the guys confessed that he was using POR when nature called. You can probably guess the rest...

Jeff

Hey Jeff,

Boy do I really have a funny reply to your comment; however, we all know that his is a family friendly forum.
Thanks For The Laugh!

[Joseph]

I do not understand. I understand that POR 15 is a great product but this thread talks of it like it is a finish paint. I thought you had to apply it then paint over it because the product will not stand up to the effect of the sun. If I am wrong please tell me us I can change my use.

[Jazzman]

I do not understand. I understand that POR 15 is a great product but this thread talks of it like it is a finish paint. I thought you had to apply it then paint over it because the product will not stand up to the effect of the sun. If I am wrong please tell me us I can change my use.

Taken directly from the POR 15 site:

MUST I PAINT OVER POR-15 TO MAKE IT LAST?
No, but POR-15 has an ultra-violet sensitivity and must be topcoated if continually exposed to sunlight. Once topcoated, POR-15 will remain effective for many years.

WILL THE SUN DESTROY MY POR-15 COATING IF I DON'T TOPCOAT IT?
If the surface is exposed to the sun for an extended amount of time, the UV rays will eventually break down the POR-15 and cause it to fail. That?s why we recommend you topcoat it.

I have only used it in areas that will only get ultra-violet radiation if the car is upside down. I fully intend to avoid that situation. Bottom line: This stuff is amazing!

[carlewms]

Joseph,

According to the instructions ... POR 15 does need a top coat. The way I have used it is two coats of POR 15 and then a top coat of Gloss or Semi Gloss black depending on the application.

[Jazzman]

1. Keep Several of the larger boxes after you have installed the parts. The larger cardboard panels make good templates if you decide to do any customization or modifications.
2. Save several of the flat sheets of paper between the boxed sheet aluminum pieces. This strong paper makes very good, and bendable, templates. I didn’t save any of this paper, and now wish I did.

[mikeinatlanta]

1. Keep Several of the larger boxes after you have installed the parts. The larger cardboard panels make good templates if you decide to do any customization or modifications.
2. Save several of the flat sheets of paper between the boxed sheet aluminum pieces. This strong paper makes very good, and bendable, templates. I didn’t save any of this paper, and now wish I did.
Hobby lobby had a decent variety of paper good for templating.

[canuck1]

I built my car based on an idea in my head. Not a Cobra replica, more of a 'tip of a hat' to the 427 model than a true replica. Like most people, my ideas morphed over time but in the end, my car replicates the original image in my head. Some things (images especially) have a big impact on me. If I had seen this image before I started, I would have built mine EXACTLY like this:

53786

I am a big Steve McQueen fan :o. He was only playing with this street 427 Cobra at Riverside in 1966 but seeing him whip this thing around in the photo makes it look more bad *** than a sidepipe equipped 427 competition model! He did have a MK1 he drove for a while (I think Shelby 'gave' it to him) but this photos is by far my favorite and an excellent starting point for a unique build. Now, I wish I would have!!!

Sean

[Jester]

My build is manual clutch and manual steering. I like both but over time I may upgrade to power steering and a hydraulic clutch (hard to beat the reliability of manual though).

I built everything as planned however I would spend time with the cockpit interior design and dash layout. You should see as many interiors as possible to determine what you want. As you spend most of your time behind the wheel, a great cockpit will take the experience to the next level.

Best to dive in and get your hands dirty.

Good luck

[bsnyder]

also check out:
www.ffcars.com
www.clubcobra.com
https://mk4build.com/

[mach'er]

wareaglescott: I enjoyed this thread (in addition to I finding it useful) based on having seen the pictures of your finished project. Something so recent as this, yet you're already driving an awesome car. Good for motivation to those of us in these beginning stages! But, man, that's a high bar. Completing in a year! Wow. Excellent job, too!

Sorry for the Necro-bump - but couldn't resist given his recent graduation thread.

[wareaglescott]

wareaglescott: I enjoyed this thread (in addition to I finding it useful) based on having seen the pictures of your finished project. Something so recent as this, yet you're already driving an awesome car. Good for motivation to those of us in these beginning stages! But, man, that's a high bar. Completing in a year! Wow. Excellent job, too!

Sorry for the Necro-bump - but couldn't resist given his recent graduation thread.

Hey thanks!
I did add a hindsight post to my thread in post 574. Kinda a continuation of this thread of things I realized after I was done would have been useful to know.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?21312-Wareaglescott-s-Coyote-build-thread-INDEX-ADDED-TO-POST-1/page15