Type-65 heat managment

[SingleMaltWSKY]

Hey all,

I'm researching the best ways to manage heat and keep heat out of the cockpit, I'm familiar with the techniques (heat shields, coatings etc) however I wanted to get an idea of people's favorite products to get the job done.

The goal with out car is to make it more production/GT and take it on some road tours, so it's very important that we keep the interior shielded as much as possible.

Favorite - ceramic paints? Coatings? Thermal barrier products? Wraps?
Are there products that work well in combination?

Let me know your thoughts

Cheers,
Jonas

[wallace18]

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?14286-Wallace18-s-65-Coupe-build-thread

Check out my build thread. I had little to no heat issues from the foot boxes. The heat from the sun in the rear window is always going to be a problem though, IMO. Hence A/C, tint, etc.

[SingleMaltWSKY]

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?14286-Wallace18-s-65-Coupe-build-thread

Check out my build thread. I had little to no heat issues from the foot boxes. The heat from the sun in the rear window is always going to be a problem though, IMO. Hence A/C, tint, etc.

Ah - so that product was Lizard Skin? You're happy with it's performance, I will add it to my list.
I want to get a catalogue of options.

[6t8dart]

Jonas, managing heat is a little different than managing sound, although there is some crossover. A spray on ceramic is great for heat management, not as great for sound. Sound is controlled by mass (heavy & flexible). Dyanamat & spray on undercoating work well for that, apply some of the foil backed stuff to the inside of the firewall, spray undercoating on the underside of the car aluminum, and maybe the rear wheelwells. Now comes the heat/weight/sound decision. Dynamat extreme will insulate heat fairly well, as well as controlling sound and making the car feel solid when driving down the road, but it is heavy, 30 sq feet weighs about 30 lbs. However, the spray on ceramic stuff will save weight as well as insulate heat very well, but don't expect as much sound control. Being enclosed in a coupe, it may get loud in there. There are also a few zero clearance heat shields that can be installed on the outside of the footbox, while not pretty, they are acceptable for most. I would definately use something on the roof of the car, the sun will be easy to feel through the fiberglass. Tint is also recommended for windows.

[SingleMaltWSKY]

Jonas, managing heat is a little different than managing sound, although there is some crossover. A spray on ceramic is great for heat management, not as great for sound. Sound is controlled by mass (heavy & flexible). Dyanamat & spray on undercoating work well for that, apply some of the foil backed stuff to the inside of the firewall, spray undercoating on the underside of the car aluminum, and maybe the rear wheelwells. Now comes the heat/weight/sound decision. Dynamat extreme will insulate heat fairly well, as well as controlling sound and making the car feel solid when driving down the road, but it is heavy, 30 sq feet weighs about 30 lbs. However, the spray on ceramic stuff will save weight as well as insulate heat very well, but don't expect as much sound control. Being enclosed in a coupe, it may get loud in there. There are also a few zero clearance heat shields that can be installed on the outside of the footbox, while not pretty, they are acceptable for most. I would definately use something on the roof of the car, the sun will be easy to feel through the fiberglass. Tint is also recommended for windows.

Great advice - thanks!
Yes, I think it will be a combination of these techniques - the trick is finding best of breed products to combine and get the best results. I'm really not afraid of weight in the car - 500hp is a lot of power and we're not racing this machine....it's more for fun on the road and touring.

[6t8dart]

Check out Dynamat.com

http://www.dynamat.com/automotive-and-transportation/automotive-restoration/

Im am using two boxes of Dynamat Xtreme on the footboxes, tunnel, firewall, and floor...spraying on undercoat on the road facing portions of the underside, as well as wheel well aluminum, as well as some sort of thin padding below the floor and console carpet. As you indicated, I am not worried about weight. I am doing it for comfort, however, I only have 270 air conditioning in my MkIV.

[Hankl]

There is also another way to kill the "boom" from some of the panels. If you have access to a bead roller,
you can run beads on the panel that will limit the vibration of that panel.
This works with both aluminum and the steel panel in the picture. Second up-side, doesn't weight anything!

http://i179.photobucket.com/albums/w284/hankl_album/Frame%20Mods/109-0948_IMG.jpg

Hank :cool:

[SingleMaltWSKY]

Nice suggestion Hank, Thanks!

[xlr8or]

Another great way to manage heat is to put in a divider between the passenger compartment and trunk space to minimize the area the A/C needs to control. Side benefit is it gives you lockable space in the trunk.
I used some 5/16 Lexan that sat on the carpet at the top of the rear bulkhead behind the seats and used bulb seal against the roof. The A/C was much more efficient that way.

[MPTech]

What motor will you be running? I am running an upgraded 302 with 4-into-4 headers, so that may help and my motor runs consistently at 192*. I drove my roadster all summer in gel-coat with raw aluminum footboxes, I did not experience any heat-soak. I know a lot of guys go to a lot of effort to install gold heat shielding and spray-on heat barriers, etc. I really don't think they are necessary. When I had it painted and carpeted it, I installed Dynamat, but I primarily did that for sound deadening. I also installed Polished Stainless Steel header heat-shields, but that was more for looks and secondary for heat.
The thing that helped the most (don't know if this is an issue with the Coupe) was to carefully install the insulation foam between the back of the footbox and body, just in front of the door hinges and make sure the dash is sufficiently sealed as well.

[SingleMaltWSKY]

What motor will you be running? I am running an upgraded 302 with 4-into-4 headers, so that may help and my motor runs consistently at 192*. I drove my roadster all summer in gel-coat with raw aluminum footboxes, I did not experience any heat-soak. I know a lot of guys go to a lot of effort to install gold heat shielding and spray-on heat barriers, etc. I really don't think they are necessary. When I had it painted and carpeted it, I installed Dynamat, but I primarily did that for sound deadening. I also installed Polished Stainless Steel header heat-shields, but that was more for looks and secondary for heat.
The thing that helped the most (don't know if this is an issue with the Coupe) was to carefully install the insulation foam between the back of the footbox and body, just in front of the door hinges and make sure the dash is sufficiently sealed as well.

Currently building the engine - it's a 347 stroker running a fairly aggressive cam, Victor Jr heads and forged internals and will have EFI. I'm thinking with our target between 450 and 500hp there's going to be a decent amount of heat to get rid of from under the hood as well as heat soak on any surfaces near the engine. I really like Wallace18's heat shields, and from experience with our track car I know that air gap works wonders. My goal is to be able to put a few hundred miles on the car in a sitting without going deaf or dying of heat exhaustion.....it's a tall order, so I want to use best of breed for everything.

I'm not concerned about the weight of the car, it's not a track car.

Right now - leaning towards a combination of:
- ceramic coated or heat wrapped headers
- Lizard Skin or similar product sprayed on the firewall/footboxes
- Possible stand-off shielding like Wallace18 (great job)
- 3M or Eastwood seem sealers for just about everything
- Dynamat interior
- Wheel well inserts to keep the water and rocks out

[Jacob McCrea]

Regarding the stand-off heat shields on the footboxes, can anyone speak to whether aluminum or stainless steel would be a better material? I understand from welding both that aluminum dissipates heat very well, and that stainless tends to "hold" heat compared to aluminum. I am not sure how these properties would affect this particular use. Any info would add to the discussion as I am just about to start shearing some heat shields and have plenty of both metals at hand. Thanks!

[SingleMaltWSKY]

Regarding the stand-off heat shields on the footboxes, can anyone speak to whether aluminum or stainless steel would be a better material? I understand from welding both that aluminum dissipates heat very well, and that stainless tends to "hold" heat compared to aluminum. I am not sure how these properties would affect this particular use. Any info would add to the discussion as I am just about to start shearing some heat shields and have plenty of both metals at hand. Thanks!

My understanding of the science here is that it's the reflectivity and the air gap of the stand off, not necessarily what the material is made of, although yes you would want a highly conductive metal. Aluminum is nice and light, and if it has a nice reflective (shiny) surface and a decent air gap, the temp will be essentially cut in half on the other side. Same reason you see supercars use super shiny gold, it's extremely reflective, ultra conductive and can be made thinner than any other metal and has no corrosion properties......and it looks awesome.

I have a track car and I have several areas where I use extremely thin aluminum sheet with an air gap between things like the exhaust and brake/fuel lines - it's extremely effective.
I would advise to go with aluminum, it works great.

[CraigS]

From a thread on the other forum maybe 2 years ago apparently the best choice is SS. As I remember it, SS reflects heat a lot better than aluminum.

[Sydney Chris]

From a thread on the other forum maybe 2 years ago apparently the best choice is SS. As I remember it, SS reflects heat a lot better than aluminum.

Correct... with about a 1/4" air gap. Recommend using 316 grade.

[CJBergquist]

I'm cheap so I made my Lizardskin insulation. I bought a pound of glass micro balloons ($9) and gal of exterior latex paint ($10 off the "mistake table" at the local paint store), mix in the micro balloons until you have a consistency of cake icing. I used an old 5" paint brush to apply the insulation to the exterior of all my interior panels except the foot box and firewall. I made insulated heat shields for the foot box and use foil insulation on the inside of the fire wall. Here's where you can get the micro balloon.

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cmpages/bubbles.php?clickkey=13385

[John Dol]

Chris,

That sounds like a good solution. Are enough happy with the result?

John

[CJBergquist]

It works for me. If I had it to do over again I would have applied a second coat and I would also apply it to the rear compartment sheet metal mainly for vibration reduction.

[John Dol]

If I had it to do over again I would.....

Well I hear your planning another coupe so.....
LOL

Thanks Chris,

John

[CJBergquist]

No "current" plan for a new Coupe build. The trade "deal" wasn't good enough for me to pull the trigger. I'm seriously looking at Webers...again.

[Jacob McCrea]

Here is what I did on the passenger side foot box. It is 22 gauge stainless steel, 10-24 stainless nuts and bolts, and 3/8" aluminum spacers from Home Depot. I will do the same on the driver's side, which should be done in a few weeks. I am going to add another panel in that rectangular space above the front of the transmission tunnel.

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