Contemplating MK4 build

[cfriedman67]

Hello all,
My names Craig Friedman and I am contemplating buying the MK4 roadster basic kit and using a 1999-2004 Mustang GT donor. A little bit about me. I am pretty handy but with that being said I don’t know much about fixing cars and engines but have no problems taking things apart and putting them back together. I recently redid a 1978 Honda CB750K, stripped completely, powder coated, painted, replaced rusted parts, redid brakes, etc… The only real issue that I had was the electrical. The bike I purchased had no working lights horn etc... Only hanging wires. So I think I can do this. Maybe you will tell me otherwise?

After reading what I think was a lot of posts it seems most of you are either buying new engines, transmissions, rear ends etc… or buying older engines and having them reworked by someone or doing that work yourself. Is there any issue that I am missing regarding using a 1999 -2004 donor for most or all of the parts? I am not interested in racing, increasing horsepower by a large margin (maybe up to 300) or having the absolutely best parts underneath. What I am looking for is a project that looks fun, I think I can handle, and have a cool car to cruise around in.

Any thoughts, comments, or suggestion would be greatly appreciated.

Regards

[Martin]

It's rare to see someone these days just want to build a nice simple car without all the bells and whistles. Most people that are really experienced in these cars will tell you that 300-350 is about all you need. Beyond that it gets harder to drive.

If wiring isn't your strength, you might want to try a Ron Francis wiring harness. https://www.ronfrancis.com/products.asp?dept=281

I wish I had gone that route myself.

Welcome, and good luck with your build. I wish I had done my years ago.

Martin

[6t8dart]

Craig, I am doing a base kit, donor, some new parts build. I tell people that if you have no experience working on cars, you can still build it. However, this is where it gets tricky...donors are tricky. You may never know what you are getting until its too late. also, you will spend a lit of time cleaning and painting parts from the donor. I would recommend either finding a prefect example of a donor, or going with a complete kit. The days of finding donors that have not been abused is over. Many are now high mileage and worn out. You can spend a lot of money just replacing bushings and rebuilding components. If you buy a base kit and source parts, then you will have a lot of research to do. There a lot of people here that will help you plan, but there are also a lot of differing opinions too. Put you plan on paper and try to account for everything.

[GoDadGo]

I'm a first time builder and went with the complete kit.

The time saved and the fact that every part I touch is clean and new has made the process an absolute joy. Doing a donor build would have meant more work and organization on my part. Also, what slowed up my project is my Off-Beat drivetrain and the fact that our oldest daughter got married this past December. That event ate up a lot of time and money, but that's A-Okay with this Proud Pop.

Good Luck With Your Future Build!

[MPTech]

You can do it. The kit and the forums are great support! It does take a time commitment that can be a challenge for some guys to schedule with life-events.
I built the base-kit, but most of my parts were new or re-manufactured. If you do go base-kit, I would strongly suggest NEW: radiator, fuel tank, fuel pump, master cylinder, and wiring harness. It will just increase reliability and avoid fixing your brand new car. I also think most guys go with new gauges as well. If you decide Power steering & brakes (I highly recommend them) I would also suggest new or re-manufactured power steering rack & pump and calipers & rotors. (it starts adding up and the donor route looks less cost-effective). Even a 2004 is now over 12 years old.
I also suggest the 4-into-4 headers,front Lower Control Arms, and hood hinge option.

They are a blast to build and even more fun to DRIVE!

[cfriedman67]

Thanks for the advice and will probably go that route with the Ron francis wiring harness. If I decide to move forward will let you know.

[cfriedman67]

Thanks for all the different advice and comments. It definitely gives me some more things to think about regarding the base kit and the full kit.

Regards

[Turbroe]

Enjoy. Did you consider a Coyote?

[carlewms]

Craig,

Welcome to the forum ... and, as you will learn quickly, everyone has an opinion or view on where to start these builds. Here is what I did:

I decided how I figured I would use the car ... For me mostly cruising with an occasional track day or autocross in a car that I could also take on a trip.

Based on that I wanted a SBF and ended up with a 302 stroked to 347 topped by EZ EFI 2.0 with a super alloy T5 mated to the FFR supplied IRS. At the time I ordered my kit FFR had a 1/2 price options sale. Since I wanted to get upgraded brakes and IRS I added the Wilwood Brake Kit and IRS to the basic kit. If you do think you will end up doing some upgrades to some of the parts that come in the complete kit this may be a route for you to consider.

And yes ... You can build one of those cars! They online community is a wealth of information and are always willing to help
,

Carl

[RickP]

Welcome Craig,

I'm a new builder and thought you might like my perspective as I am just like you. I have no car building experience let alone engine building. I like you, consider myself handy and smart enough to be able to disassemble/reassemble something and be able to figure out something mechanical in nature if I just take the time to understand "how it works".

I considered a FFR Mk4 for a very long time. I also had an 87 5.0 that I was about to sink serious money and time into. The big decision on my part was making the jump to considering my 87 as a "donor".......... And donor she became. I tore the 87 down to the body/frame only to salvage what I could. When it came right down to it, it's the motor, tranny, and rear I was most interested in.

What I didn't know at the time is if I could rebuild the engine, transmission, and rear. Well, like anything else in life, you don't know until you try. Can't say I didn't need a little professional help along the way. The transmission I didn't mess around with, had that rebuilt by a Tremac guy for 800. The rear I did myself. The motor is a different story. I tore that down to the block, then farmed it out to a machinist who cooked, cleaned, stroked (331) and set the rotating assembly in place. I in-turn, built the top end. (which I have never done before). I've never seen it done before. I took each assembly as a project unto itelf and completed the top end. From rockers, rods, heads, manifold etc. Sure I made some mistakes along the way but just building the motor alone gave me the confidence I needed to take this journey. Plus I learned.

I've had my kit (base kit), for about two months now and spend any free moment I have either working on it, thinking about it, or researching the next step. I'm even taking a break right now as I write this, waiting for paint to dry after doing a Wilwood pedal notch (you learn about that when you get there).

Lastly, this forum is my "go to". I won't name names, but there are guys on here willing to offer whatever advice, experience they have. Saved me quite a few times already. They have built multiple cars in all sorts of configurations and they will help you along the way. If you have the attitude going in to be willing/prepared to make a few mistakes along the way or have the fortitude to overcome a few challenging obsticles, you will be fine. They even have a build school you can attend so you can learn to build it before you take the plunge.

When the weekend comes, I can't wait to get in the garage!

Rick

[cfriedman67]

Hi Rick, thanks for the reply it ws very helpful. Considering you now have some experience in tearing down and rebuilding I have a few questiond if I decide to take the plunge. I am considering one of three options. 1. a 1999-2004 complete donor car purchase price in the neighborhood of $5000-6000. Take what I need and sell the rest? Is it worh the hassle to sell the balance of the car, did you do that? 2. A donor palate from a mustang auto salvage yard which I believe will cost in the $5000-$6000 area as well. 3. I have recently come across a 1997 302 engine with 56K mile and transmission for around $800. My goal is to be as cost effective as possible which sounds like your goal as well. I would like at-least 260 HP which the 1999-2004 has with nothing done to it. How much do you think it would cost to get the 1997 engine (215 HP) beefed up to 250-300 horsepower? After the work you had done what kind of HP s it making and what did it cost? I'm assuming the rest of the stuff that you needed came form your old 87. Thanks again for your answers and time.

[Hottrodder427]

Ron Francis wiring all the way. I installed a painless kit on a truck and the Ron France's is far better. As far as a base kit, I have a complete kit. So my hands are clean lol. It just seemed like a lot of work to clean all the parts

[wallace18]

You can save some money going the donor route. IMO the complete kit is a better deal and just use the drive train from the donor. Just my 2 cents worth.

[Hottrodder427]

You can save some money going the donor route. IMO the complete kit is a better deal and just use the drive train from the donor. Just my 2 cents worth.


I agree that would probably be the best route

[RickP]

Hi Rick, thanks for the reply it ws very helpful. Considering you now have some experience in tearing down and rebuilding I have a few questiond if I decide to take the plunge. I am considering one of three options. 1. a 1999-2004 complete donor car purchase price in the neighborhood of $5000-6000. Take what I need and sell the rest? Is it worh the hassle to sell the balance of the car, did you do that? 2. A donor palate from a mustang auto salvage yard which I believe will cost in the $5000-$6000 area as well. 3. I have recently come across a 1997 302 engine with 56K mile and transmission for around $800. My goal is to be as cost effective as possible which sounds like your goal as well. I would like at-least 260 HP which the 1999-2004 has with nothing done to it. How much do you think it would cost to get the 1997 engine (215 HP) beefed up to 250-300 horsepower? After the work you had done what kind of HP s it making and what did it cost? I'm assuming the rest of the stuff that you needed came form your old 87. Thanks again for your answers and time.

I wouldn't pay 5,000 to 6,000 bucks for a donor. Thats a losing bet right out of the gate. I had the benefit of already having a Mustang (purchased way prior) that I just didnt know what to do with. When I tore the Mustang down, I took careful stock in what can re-purposed and what I would replace via third party or FFR. For example, the wiring harness. A mustang complete wiring harness will cost in the neighborhood of 1,200 bucks to replace. Could I have used the donor harness? Sure. But would I want to put 29 year old wiring in a brand new hand built car? No way. With that mindset, I contemplated a complete build versus a base build option. Also I knew I wanted a few upgrades such as big brakes, 4 link rear, etc. I waited for a 50/50 sale at FFR. Pretty much 50% all upgrades at time of purchase. That would get me a base kit option with all the upgrades I wanted cheaper that a complete kit from the get go.

In the end, I have not used much from my donor. Fuel cell is old, wiring harness brittle, leaking steering rack, any bracket etc off the motor not usable. Not saying you cannot use them, I just didn't want to after I put the first panel on the car. I haven't come across the "holy crap expense" yet that I did not anticipate. Example, bought a fuel tank from LMR. Comes with straps, and sender $260 plus new fuel pump 150 ish from Breeze. 400 bucks is worth not having to recondition the old tank and re-purpose a 29 year old "in tank" pump.

If you can get a motor AND tranny for 800 bucks, your ahead of the game. Rebuild both if you can afford the cost. Just be 100% sure the block is sound. You need a machinist for that. Ask yourself if after building the car, do you want it to run flawlessly? Having that nagging turn signal that works occassionally would drive me nuts.

regarding your horse power concerns. You have to remember your powering a 2300 lb car. 230 HP is plenty fun. If you go stock 302, there are plenty of power adders that will boost HP. If you want to reach the 350 range, you need to approach your motor from it's foundation. Stroke it, piston design, roller rockers, chromoly rods etc. The top of the engine is pretty much how fast you can get air/fuel in and out.

As a first time engine builder, I put way way too much money into my motor (reaching 9K). I think thats why a lot of guys opt to have their motors built or buy a crate. But the 3000 over spent on my motor build got me an advantage most don't have. I know every nut, bolt, torque spec, right down to what head gaskets used. I also put a forged rotating assembly in it so if I want to go from 380 HP (on paper) to 480 HP, I can spray it. But 480HP in a 2300 lb car would be stupid IMHO.

And for my donor: I listed it on craigslist for free. In the end, some kid came along and paid me 300 bucks for the body and frame. I still have a bunch of parts down in the basement that I will try and part out to recoup some "fun" money.