Doug's Mk4 Build Thread - Annapolis, MD

[dmoran]

Hey Everybody,

Welcome to my build thread.

I'm going to try to keep this as up to date as possible mostly for my own documentation but I'm hoping some of you smart guys will check in once in a while to keep me on the right path. I completely welcome any advice (especially the good kind) from you'se guys who have been there and done that. Also, if you see anything I'm doing that you think is a bad idea or maybe there's a better alternative, then please, don't hesitate to comment. I have a build plan but nothing is written in stone and I won't be offended. I may not always take the advice but I will always listen.

My background is in electrical engineering but I have worked my whole life in software including writing Space Shuttle checkout, control and monitoring software at KSC back in the 80's and 90's. I have always been a DIY'er and tinkerer but this is my first full car build. I attended the FFR Build School back in February with my father and son which was awesome.

Here is a quick version of the plan:

GOAL: Build a non-donor Factory Five Mk 4 Roadster for weekend fun.
I'm not trying to make a perfect period correct Cobra replica. I'd actually like it to have a more modern flavor. Where there are options I favor simple, for example: non power brakes and steering, no heater, no A/C etc. About the only exception to the simple rule is EFI which I think will actually be easier to keep in tune in the long run. Plus, being a computer geek, I love the idea of working with the engine telemetry from the computer.

Kit: Mark 4 Roadster base kit #8843 - Picked up 3/19/16

Powder-coated
Pre-cut holes
3-Link Deluxe Rear Suspension package
Rear Brake Kit with 11.65″ Rotors...
FFR LCA's and front spindle kit
FFR Front Brakes
FFR Steering rack
FFR 11.65″ Rear Brake Kit
Wilwood pedal box
Russ Thompson Throttle Pedal
Halibrand Replica Wheels, 17″ x 9″ Front and 17″ x 10.5″ Rear (Yay for the 1/2 price winter sale)


Engine: Roush Racing 331 SRXE Crate Engine: - Delivery by end of March

Small Block Ford (Reconditioned 302)
Stroked to 331 cid
350 hp
350 ft-lbf torque
Aluminum Heads
Aluminum Dual Plane Intake Manifold
T-Body EFI - FAST EZ-EFI Self-Tuning Fuel Injection System
Canton Racing Front Sump Oil Pan
Ford Motorsport 90 Degree Oil Filter Adaptor
Cobra Replica Alternator, Bracket, Pulleys & Belt
MSD #6425 Ignition Box, #8202 Ignition Coil


Transmission: Tremec #5008 TKO-600 5-Speed Manual Transmission - Delivery by end of March

.64 Overdrive
Single Disc Clutch & Pressure Plate w/ Mech Release Bearing
Mechanical Clutch Release Fork
Quicktime #RM-6065 SFI Rated Steel Bellhousing


Rear End: Mike Forte's 8.8" Mustang Rear End - Pickup 3/18/16

3.55 Ford Racing Gears
5 Lug 31 Spline Yukon Axles
31 Spline Cobra TracLoc
Mustang Pinion Flange
Fully Checked/Reconditioned Axle Housing


Exhaust: Gas-n Polished Stainless Steel Side Pipes and Long Tube SS headers
Not ordered yet. I've heard good things about these - any comments?

Constructed from T-304 stainless steel. This includes the wool packing, muffler, merge collectors, and 3/8” thick flanges.
The merge collectors are built with scavenger spikes for better flow and sound.
Sound has been adjusted to be quieter by using a flow-through muffler design.
Small amount of fiberglass packing in the muffler to add to the sound quality.


Tires: Nitto NT05

315/35-17 on rear
275/40-17 on front


Hopefully that's enough to get me started and keep busy for a while - thanks for stopping bye
Doug

[GoDadGo]

Good Luck & Enjoy Your Build! Don't get down if you reach an impasse. Go to Factory Five or this Forum! Everybody Is Here To Help!

[edwardb]

Congratulations! You're in for a great time. Good luck with your kit pickup. It's an awesome experience. Several comments about your build plan: (1) I'm a HUGE believer in power steering. I've had both manual and power and there's no comparison IMO. This discussion is beat to death, so won't start it again. Other than to say now is the time to do it. Guys say you can add it later (and you can) but it's harder to do and hard to take out perfectly good parts. (2) Not sure you need the 90 degree oil filter adapter. That engine will fit with the oil filter in the stock location just fine. One less thing to mess with and possibly leak. (3) Strongly suggest you get the non-SFI version of the Quicktime bell housing. For our purposes, the non-SFI is just as strong. As long as you aren't planning on running any sanctioned events where the SFI is required, and I don't see you listing SFI flywheel, clutch, etc. The SFI version has a quite large lip along the bottom that has to be cut off to not hang below the frame. The non-SFI version isn't so large. And those things are tough. Ask me how I know. (4) You will love the GAS-N pipes. I've used them on all three of my builds. Great quality and nice mellow sound.

[dmoran]

T-2 days and counting...

My completion date from "The Factory" is Saturday, March 19th 2016. To enhance the overall build experience, save a little money, and see where the magic happens, I decided to go for a self pickup.

The Plan:

Build a chassis dolly
Drive with my father and son from Annapolis to Mass.
Pickup the rear axle and meet the world famous Mike Forte
Hotel for sleep
Pickup 16' Budget Rental Truck (about 400 feet up the road from FFR)
Tour the factory - Bow, "We're not worthy"
Strap the chassis/body package to the dolly
Strap dolly/car into truck
Hopefully, there is room in the truck and our SUV for all the "other" boxes
Stop at Dad's in NJ for an air compressor and engine hoist
Home



The Dolly:

Based on this dolly that JIMOCO (http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/member.php?11480-JIMOCO) posted - Thanks Jim:
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I basically just modified the rails to be sturdier and removable so it would fit in the vehicle I'm driving to MA.
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I also whipped up a quick fixture to strap the differential to keep it from rolling around the SUV:
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And last, but not least, the body buck (staying home of course):
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Now with build in storage:
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So - did I forget anything? Any advice for kit pickup day?

I have assembly photos and measurements for all these fixtures if anyone is interested. Let me know and I'll post it.

Thanks,
Doug

[dmoran]

Congratulations! You're in for a great time. Good luck with your kit pickup. It's an awesome experience. Several comments about your build plan: (1) I'm a HUGE believer in power steering. I've had both manual and power and there's no comparison IMO. This discussion is beat to death, so won't start it again. Other than to say now is the time to do it. Guys say you can add it later (and you can) but it's harder to do and hard to take out perfectly good parts. (2) Not sure you need the 90 degree oil filter adapter. That engine will fit with the oil filter in the stock location just fine. One less thing to mess with and possibly leak. (3) Strongly suggest you get the non-SFI version of the Quicktime bell housing. For our purposes, the non-SFI is just as strong. As long as you aren't planning on running any sanctioned events where the SFI is required, and I don't see you listing SFI flywheel, clutch, etc. The SFI version has a quite large lip along the bottom that has to be cut off to not hang below the frame. The non-SFI version isn't so large. And those things are tough. Ask me how I know. (4) You will love the GAS-N pipes. I've used them on all three of my builds. Great quality and nice mellow sound.

(1) I debated the power steering back and forth myself and I'll probably kick myself for that one someday.
(2) The kit comes with a remote oil filter mount and the manual implies the filter it needs to be remote mounted. Build school recommended going with the 90 deg instead. If that is not a problem with the 302 then I'll pull it. Less is better :)
(3) Thanks for the bell housing advice! I put in a change to my order. With all that HP just inches from my favorite parts, I went with as much safety margin as possible. If I have to cut into it than that just seems wrong. What are your thoughts on a driveshaft safety loop?
(4)Yay - I was hoping they're as nice as they look :)

Thanks for the quick reply!
Doug

[6t8dart]

duplicate

[6t8dart]

Just a bit of advice on the frame dolly, it my need not hold the weight once you install the engine and trans. When dressed out minus the body, you will be looking at 1800-2000 lbs. Your dolly needs cross bracing, and possibly stronger wheels? I used 6 wheels and made the base wider, you could add a couple wheels for more load and makes some triangles, parallelograms are weak. Think triangles.

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Here are some easy fixes

1. Cut some of these end pieces off, they may interfere with installation of some components. one inch is tall enough to keep it from sliding over.

2. add some diagonal 2x4's to keep it from collapsing, if pushed from one end.

3. add a 3rd wheel in the middle on each end with another 4x4.

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[GoDadGo]

See what I mean about "These Guys Being The Best!" Many of the senior member have fantastic advice and albums in addition to them constantly giving you real world assistance. Regarding the power steering comment, I may change over during the Go-Kart stage. Enjoy your build!

[edwardb]

What are your thoughts on a driveshaft safety loop? Doug

I install them on my builds. That driveshaft is spinning just inches from your backside. There's a thread over on the other forum right now (http://www.ffcars.com/forums/17-factory-five-roadsters/553114-driveshaft-loop.html) discussing pros and cons and a couple options. I posted pictures of the Metco version installed in my Mk4. They're doing a limited production run if you want to jump in on that. Nice solution that's a bolt-on. BTW, we like to spend your money. ;)

[Duke]

(1) I debated the power steering back and forth myself and I'll probably kick myself for that one someday.
(2) The kit comes with a remote oil filter mount and the manual implies the filter it needs to be remote mounted. Build school recommended going with the 90 deg instead. If that is not a problem with the 302 then I'll pull it. Less is better :)
(3) Thanks for the bell housing advice! I put in a change to my order. With all that HP just inches from my favorite parts, I went with as much safety margin as possible. If I have to cut into it than that just seems wrong. What are your thoughts on a driveshaft safety loop?
(4)Yay - I was hoping they're as nice as they look :)

Thanks for the quick reply!
Doug

My 2 cents:

1. P/S, totally up to you. A lot of it will depend on front tire size and what you are comfortable with. I was dead set on manual, but my wife made some great points last month so I upgraded to P/S. Forte has a great kit. I was just over $1,100 all in for the new '15 coyote. PS - most of the stuff he has isn't on his website so you'll have to call him directly. He has 30+ Tremec's in stock ready to go. I gave him a list of local web companies to help him update his website :).

2. This isn't a big deal. Best to wait until you get the motor in for a mock up and see what you like best for access/spacing.

3. SFI, no questions. Drive shaft loop is cheap insurance too. Again, Forte has them in stock that just bolt right in (not on his website I believe).

[dmoran]

Once again - thanks for the help. I emailed Kristi and ordered one. Luckily, that was already in the budget so you will have to try harder to spend my money ;)

[RR20AC]

I am building a mount right now for an electric steering unit I bought at Summit Racing. About $560. Should work well and you can turn it off if you want just manual steering.

[dmoran]

Thanks for the advice. I hadn't thought of using the dolly once the drivetrain was installed, in fact, I planned on using jack stands once I got it off the truck. Since unloading, I've kept it on the dolly while doing the suspension and aluminum work and it's been great to be able to easily move the chassis around the garage.

You are correct, I will have to upgrade wheels or add a couple more to each end, the ones on there can handle 300lbs each. Now that I won't need to take it apart to fit in my small SUV, I can add some sturdy triangles like you suggested.

BTW - It worked beautifully for the kit pickup and easy unloading from the truck.

[dmoran]

I just checked out your build thread, you seem to have it well in hand. I like that electric setup and the mount looks sweet. Have you driven electric assist before? If so, how does it feel? Is the amount of "help" adjustable? and is it speed sensitive? I like the concept, but all it's new to me.

[dmoran]

Of all the planning that goes into one of these builds, the biggest worry I had was the kit pickup. Yeah, I could have had it delivered to MD for 800 bucks but where's the fun in that? I wanted to see the factory but most of all, I wanted to meet the world famous Mike Forte. Oh - and have another adventure with my father and son.

I read hours of forum posts about tow vehicles and trailer combinations and over the years of posts there were a some contradictory statements/opinions etc. It also seemed hit or miss on whether u-haul would let me rent the big trailer because my Land Rover Discovery wasn't heavy enough to pull the max load of the trailer, even though I only needed to haul the 800 lb kit. Then there was the question on how to get it unloaded. And don't forget all those parts boxes, especially if you order the full kit.

So... for any newbies wondering how to get the new toy home, here is a story of an easy trip that should give you the confidence to "get it yourself" since you already plan to "build it yourself"

The Vehicle: I went with Budget's 16' Box truck. I think 14' would have worked out but 16' had room to spare and was within $10 of the 14' price. The basic rental was unlimited mileage and you got the truck for 3 days. Some how, it was only $235 when everyone else was closer to $400. Since it's a one-way trip, the price is heavily influenced by whether they have too many vehicles in one area that that need moved to another. It seems like they had a lot in New England that they wanted in the Mid Atlantic. It pays to get a price form all of the renters, U-Haul, Penske, Budget, Ryder, Enterprise... Don't assume they will all be in the same ball park. The other lucky happenstance was that the Budget truck rental is about 400' down the road from Factory Five.

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Securing the kit and unloading I ordered the powder coated frame and didn't want it to get scratched up on the way home. It would be just me, my dad and my son unloading the thing and didn't want to trust our being able to carry it off the truck and down the ramp so I decided a chassis dolly was the way to go.

I built a dolly based on one posted by JIMOCO (http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/member.php?11480-JIMOCO), I modified the side rails to be sturdier and removable so it would fit in the vehicle I'm driving to MA.
5163951642

The constraints on the dolly are that the wheels have to fit within the 23 1/2 inch wide truck ramp. The "legs" have to be high enough so the side rails on the dolly don't bottom out and on the ramp when the back wheels are still in the truck and the front wheels are halfway down the ramp. They also have to be high enough that the car body doesn't scrape the ground at the bottom of the ramp.

The dimensions I used are shown here:
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The 4x4's were cut 12" tall. The 2x6's are cut 76" long. The other 20" from the 8' long 2x6s is used to reinforce the ends. The wheels are rated at 300 lbs each and I bought them from Amazon here (http://amzn.com/B008S52OHQ). The wheels were 22 1/2" from outside edge to outside edge.

The ends of the dolly fit between the front crossmember and front "X", the rear will be about half way between the rear cross member and the end of the 4" tubes:

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If you plan to use the dolly after installing the engine/trans, you will need stronger wheels and a lot more reinforcement.

At the Factory. They used their fork lift with the FFR fixture to lift the kit off their dolly and I slid ours under. I used a couple ratchet straps to lock the frame to the dolly:
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We rolled it out to the truck and used the fork lift to put it on the truck. We went with the back side out so the forklift had less body to reach over and less overhang when rolling the car down the ramp:
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To be continued in the next post. I hit the 10 Picture per post limit

[dmoran]

...Continued from previous post since I hit the 10 picture per post limit

We slid the car over against the side of the truck with moving blankets to protect the body. And attached 4 ratchet straps from the frame to the walls of the truck. with the tall dolly, most of the boxes fit under. There was plenty of room left over in the truck for an engine, trans, differential, engine hoist...
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Unloading was way easier than I thought. We ran a rope through the eyelets on the dolly and through the anchor points on the truck to let us slowly lower the car.
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That's it, very easy. Like everything else build related. Have a plan and execute it. We stayed overnight at TownePlace Suites Wareham Buzzards Bay a Marriott property. It was nice, new and clean. We ate at BB's Bar and Grill which was also very good.

I almost forgot to mention the part where we stopped at Mike Forte's shop to pick up a rear axle. If you ever have the opportunity to visit Mike, he is a total nut and a really nice guy. His shop is like a trip through a time machine and he has way more stuff than is on the web site. I can't even begin to describe it. I am still kicking myself for not getting any pictures.
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[carlewms]

Congratulations ... and here are a couple of ways to increase your costs ... BTW you will get a lot of those cruising these forums.

You did not mention whether you were using a cable or hydraulic activated clutch. I have the Wilwood pedal box and found it much easier to put in the hydraulic clutch (i got the Forte version) and after go karting really like it.

I started out with manual steering but was later (and properly) convinced to with to power steering (Thanks Craig S). Like others have said do it now vice later ... it is much easier to do with the radiator off the car and gaining full access to the location. In my case I chose Breeze's rack (which is actually a Unistar) and the line and fittings to connect to the pump. After go karting I am sure glad i did.

Last but not least is the FAST EFI System .. I initially order the 1.0 version but before installation upgraded to the 2.0 version. I have had a few issues with noise interference from the MSD ignition system on the communications between the handheld and ECU which I think are resolved but did require a change in the routing of the EFI wiring harness. Bottom line is keep everything EFI away from everything Ignition System (in my case the igniton systems runs on the PS and the EFI on the DS.

Again congratulations.

Carl

[WIS89]

Doug-

Glad your trip went well. I had a similarly excellent experience. The factory and the people in it are just top shelf!

Good luck as you begin your build. Holler if you have any questions; great folks here that can help with anything.

I love Naptown, where about town are you located? Best of luck getting started!

Regards,

Steve

[dmoran]

Thanks Steve.

I'm in Crownsville, about 6 miles northwest of downtown Annapolis.

[WIS89]

Doug-

I am familiar with that areas as well. Great area with good people. Getting crowded, but still great place.

Good luck getting started. I know how exciting it is! All the best!

Regards,

Steve

[Paul Mischenko]

Hey Doug, I'm a first time builder as well. Received my 20th Ann Kit last August and really having a blast. I found it really helpful at the start to go through all the part boxes checking inventory, and I bought some large plastic bins instead of the boxes. I've read the manual several times which helped me plan as you change things along the build. Tony and the team at FF have really been great getting missing parts and with ideas/advice so don't hesitate to call them. The also have some online build videos as well. A really big help was reading other build logs from the veteran builders, most notably edwardb, he does some pretty amazing work and as I've said many times before I'm really glad he's several steps ahead of me. Not sure how much extra space you have, but the rolling body buck above the body works great in my garage and saves me from storing the body outside...Good luck..

[dmoran]

I totally suck at keeping up with my build thread but I actually have been working on the car. The problem is that whenever I have time to update the thread, I go out to the garage and work on the car instead. Hmmm, that doesn't sound like an actual problem but does result in no updates. Anyway, here is a quick video update of the first 6 weeks that is less than 2 minutes long.


https://youtu.be/8NgFiuOt77w

Currently finished with:

Rear Suspension - complete, greased and torqued to specs

Lower Control Arms
Coil over shocks assembled and mounted

Three link

Panhard bar
Upper link
Lower link

Rear Axle - Mike Forte's 8.8" Mustang Rear End - Fox width, 3.55 Ford Racing Gears, 5 Lug 31 Spline Yukon Axles and Cobra TracLoc

Cut off quad shock bracket
Weld 3-Link upper bracket
Prep and paint
New vent
Aluminum girdle
Mounted the brakes
Gear Oil

Pedal box

Brake pedal and master cylinders
Clutch pedal including the dreaded 3/4" frame interference issue (I decided to trim the pedal)
Modify pedal assembly to fix clutch cable interference
Added a clutch-starter safety switch
Ordered the world famous Russ Thompson throttle pedal

Front Suspension - complete, greased and torqued to specs

Upper Control Arms - FFR ball joints screwed right in, no trouble
LCAs
Spindles
Coil over shocks assembled and mounted
Still waiting for delivery of FFR back ordered front hubs

"F" panels - polished and Sharkhide protected inside and Herculiner'd on the wheel side. Also did the edwardb "F" Panel/elephant ear Nut-sert mod and 5/8" wire harness notch
Laid out and drilled the DS foot box aluminum



I plan to do some detailed video shorts of each part of the build when I can pry myself out of the garage. As always - if you see something (wrong, stupid or dangerous) say something.

Thanks,
Doug

[dmoran]

Today I ordered a set of NITTO NT05's from Discount Tire Direct.

315/35-17 for the Halibrand 10.5" rears and 275/40-17 for the Halibrand 9" fronts.

$692.16

[Doug from Jersey]

When will they be in?:cool:

[dmoran]

When will they be in?:cool:

Tomorrow - Wednesday

[dmoran]

They're here....53870

[dmoran]

Just got the call from Roush, engine is ready to ship. This is just like Christmas...
...but way more expensive

[dmoran]

Truck will deliver the engine on Monday

[dmoran]

I got it. Dyno'd at 357HP and 368 lb-ft of torque. TKO-600 also arrived.

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[carlewms]

Looking very good ... and you will have plenty of very reliable ... at least based on my go karting in the 347 lack of horsepower for most of us just isn't going to be an issue.

Carl

[dmoran]

I'm back filling some of my earlier progress.

I wanted to use the compact little reservoir that came with the kit. I know there are a lot of threads about double reservoirs and separate systems but I check my fluids often and I'm confident that the system as designed is safe. FFR engineering claims that having a Tee is enough to separate the front and rear and is effectively the same as a regular car with one tank that separates into two chambers at the bottom. The fluid in the hoses after the Tee is like the separate chambers. The relatively large size of the hoses holds a fair amount of fluid.

I liked the standard mounting location on the front of the DS foot box but didn't like the fact that it doesn't sit level. Just a preference. So I fashioned a bracket out of aluminum angle with mounting holes that follow the foot box angle.

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I'm not a fan of the big ugly hose coming out of the bottom and going through the firewall or the plastic Tee that came with the kit so I used some fittings to do both jobs. painted with a little POR-15 (I love that stuff) and ready to mount.

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Another thing I was concerned about was keeping all the plumbing higher than or even with the master cylinders so all available fluid would be used. I wasn't sure if that really mattered or if vacuum from the MC would pull it in anyway but I figured that it couldn't hurt. It was a challenge to do that and keep the cap below the 3/4" tube in order to have clearance for the hood.

The final result:

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And the foot box mockup:
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At build school, they recommended removing the "O" ring from the cap or drilling a hole in the cap to let air in and keep from creating a vacuum in the chamber. Does anyone have a preference for which way is better or whether this is a real problem and what your solution was?

Doug

[dmoran]

I'm back filling some of my earlier progress.

Back in May, I ran the brake lines and had them temporarily in place with tie wraps. This week I did the final fastening.

I tried to keep it super simple and straight forward. The kit fittings force a bunch of unnatural loops and turns so I decided that a regular Tee on the DS and a 90 deg on the PS would do the trick. I must have spent days trying to figure out what to buy to make this happen. Trying to find one piece with a -3AN coming from the brakes and 3/16 IF on the Tee sides with a mounting hole was impossible. (for me at least) Making it harder was not knowing anything about fittings in general. Thanks to the forums and the google machine, I learned about AN fittings IF fittings and pipe threads. Anyway, I settled on:

ALL50102 Allstar Performance 50102 - #3 Male to 1/8" NPT Female Fitting
ALL50125 Allstar Performance 50125 - 3/16" Inverted Flare to Male 1/8"-27NPT 90 Degree
ALL50135 Allstar Performance 50135 - 3/16" Inverted Flare Tee With 1/8"-27NPT Male Nipple on Side

ordered from Race Plumbing.

I used NiCopp tubing which was great to work with and Russell 654030 Stainless Steel Brake Line Clamps which I think it gave a clean look to the engine compartment:
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I originally had the crossover behind the "X" braces but thanks to MillerCobra for mentioning that if I'm using the Breeze battery box, it will be in the way. I am, so I moved the cross over to the front. I kept a couple of the tie wraps in place as I couldn't find clamps I liked for the smaller round tubes and it would be hard to drill out and RivNut under the tube. All clamps use RivNuts and 8-32 button head hex screws. I'm going to paint all the clamps black to blend in a little better like I did on the ones on the front of the "X". BTW, that's not a terrible paint job on those front clamps, it is the reflection from the flash :)

Doug

[dmoran]

I hit a point where I need to figure out where to mount the engine stuff - Computer, MSD box, fuel hard lines, radiator hose routing, etc. but I had no idea what kind of room I had without the engine in place. Since my father and son were here for the 4th of July, I thought it would be a good time for an engine test fit.

It went in pretty easy once we got the chassis set to the right height:

1st try - We grabbed the chain too high with the hoist making the front to 3/4 tube about 2 inches too high...
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Rather than set the motor down and re-attach, we put the wheels on the car lowering the frame...

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aw damn, now the engine hoist won't fit under the car by about an inch, so let's raise the front a bit...

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And now she just slips right in. At this point, I'm glad it's not a Coyote. We have lots of room to work ;)

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It's starting to look like a racing car...

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Next steps are to find locations for all the engine compartment do-dads, final cut and fit of the fuel lines, layout all the wire harnesses, cut wires to size. Then I'll know where I have to cut holes and drill mount points in the engine compartment aluminum. Finally, I'll be able to sand, polish, Sharkhide the finally mount the aluminum.

Build order may be a little backwards, but since I'm keeping the aluminum look, I want to have everything done and fitted before finishing and polishing the firewall and foot boxes. I'll need to pull the engine anyway to trim up the Bell Housing.

[Doug from Jersey]

It was fun putting it in. Let me know when you want to take it out. I think we should start it up before taking it out.