Roadster Engine Again?!

[haziz]

I know this question is asked repeatedly and I have perused most of the engine choice threads already. One quirk to my question is that however, unlike most people I am not seeking more power, but less!

I am considering building the MK4 Roadster. I am a relative newbie at this, and to ensure I am not totally beyond my depth I just registered for the May MOTT School (Roadster). I am looking for a fun weekend car, and will not race it. The most I would subject the car to is a non-competitive run at a local autocross.

I am looking to have fun in the car, and have no intention of getting either myself or others killed. I was considering deliberately keeping the horsepower under 300hp. I am considering either the 302 engine in it's most vanilla form (which seems hard to find nowadays), or a donor 4.6L, probably SOHC, from a 2003-2004 GT (I don't have a donor lined up). A call to Factory Five tech support today, made me consider the 302, or less likely the 351, more than a donor engine. I would prefer to keep power at, or close to, 300HP, which for the weight of the roadster should be plenty. One of my two current cars is a stock Mazda Miata NB and it's 140HP in a similar weight vehicle does not feel too underpowered. Most of the 302 engines, I have perused (Ford Racing, Blueprint) seem to be either bored or stroked to give more power. Am I being overly paranoid about power?

Should I go for a 302 or 351? What about a donor engine? Most engines on sale today seem to chase after higher and higher HP output. Where can i find one with 300HP, or only slightly more? Reliability is also important, since I do not feel up to making significant repairs myself.

Any ideas, suggestions or feedback?

[Gordon Levy]

I can build you a nice 300hp 302 very cost effectively.

[Gumball]

I agree - we all tend to fall into the "you can never have too much horsepower" camp... and that's not always the key to an enjoyable car. Sounds like you're describing one of the old donor engine / efi systems from a Fox generation Mustang... mild power, good sound, reliable, and runs well on lower octane pump gas. Since those donor days are pretty much gone, you may want to consider a mild street build 302 with moderate compression and a good aftermarket fuel injection system. It should be easy to find and easy on the budget, as well as providing miles of driving enjoyment with just the right amount of "oomph" and sound.

[edwardb]

Am I being overly paranoid about power?

Probably. You control how much of that power under the hood gets to the back wheels with the "go" pedal. It needs to be driven carefully and with respect no matter how much power you have.

Unfortunately Ford Racing doesn't sell their stock block 302 crate engine any more. That would have been ideal IMO and many used that engine in these builds. Those were rated at 340 HP, and made a nice lively runner. But nearly any engine builder, including Gordon, could make up a similar engine for you. Don't know what your wrenching experience is, but I would probably recommend a SBF over a mod motor just because they're smaller and easier to install.

[ram_g]

Good first post - I commend you for a mature and realistic plan. I started out with a 4.6 SOHC donor engine, and due to issues with that motor that I could not easily resolve, I junked it and went on to a crate 302, 340 hp and similar torque. Now my car is finished and on the road and is great fun - as quick as I would want it, and certainly not underpowered. Like you, I have no plans to track the car.

I would highly recommend that you look at a Ford Racing 302 - built for and warranted by Ford. I bought mine from Mike Forte, who finished off the engine (Ford supplies the long block) with the necessary accessories (manifold, carb, cleaner, valve covers, front dress, etc.), dyno'd it, and sold me the T5 transmission too. I highly recommend Mike for a hassle free experience. I have ~1700 miles now on that engine combo and couldn't be happier.

[ram_g]

Unfortunately Ford Racing doesn't sell their stock block 302 crate engine any more. That would have been ideal IMO and many used that engine in these builds. Those were rated at 340 HP, and made a nice lively runner.


They don't have the original blocks any more but they still supply the M-6007-X302E that uses the Boss302 block and makes the same power. More expensive than the original blocks but as good or better. And just about the same part number too! Mine is an original block engine and also says M-6007-X302, I think it was A or B that followed that at the time.

[Jeff Kleiner]

What Ram said! I've used the Ford Racing X302 in a customer's build (now somewhere around 10-12,000 rock solid miles) and when combined with a T5-z and 3.55 rear end ratio it makes a great street cruiser package! Plenty of power to open your eyes when you want to but not so much to be fussy, temperamental or difficult to drive. Give Mike Forte a call and speak with him about getting you set up with the entire package.

Good luck,
Jeff

[CraigS]

Another approach would be the above mentioned 302/340hp, but use a 308 or 273 rear gear. That is what came in most of the Mustang GTs in the 80s. This also makes finding a rear axle easier. 90+% find an axle and change the gears as well as a rebuild of the TracLock so you just skip the gear swap and save money. The, when you have gotten comfortable you can go to a 331 or 355 gear.

[edwardb]

They don't have the original blocks any more but they still supply the M-6007-X302E that uses the Boss302 block and makes the same power. More expensive than the original blocks but as good or better. And just about the same part number too! Mine is an original block engine and also says M-6007-X302, I think it was A or B that followed that at the time.

Right. They stopped selling the stock block version and now only offer the Boss block version. No question the Boss block is far superior to the stock blocks, but at nearly $7K, it's about twice the cost of the previous version. Ouch. For an entry level build, especially where power is going to be kept relatively low like the OP is asking about, personally I think there are better value options. Ford apparently didn't think there were enough stock blocks available to keep offering that version. But there are still plenty out there, and most builders will set one up for you.

[David Hodgkins]

Bad news guys, the foundry that made the BOSS 302 blocks is closed and Ford is currently without a supplier. I don't know the status of the 351 based blocks.

I'd suggest you compare The Engine Factory, Blueprint Engines, Fortes Parts Connection or Gordon Levy Racing, all forum vendors. All have the capability to build you exactly what you are looking for. As others have stated, my personal preference is a small block Windsor. Nice, smaller package and all the power you need.

Good luck with the search and let us know what you come up with!

:)

[6t8dart]

You are basically looking for my engine. I wanted the exact same thing you do, an easy to drive, fun car, that my wife can drive without killing herself. I had sold my 550HP, 2900 lb, mini-tubbed 68 Dart, which was too wild to just drive around and enjoy. I bought the Roadster as a fun replacement, but 300 HP is plenty of HP for a car this light.

I have a stock bottom end (rebuilt) 89 GT motor, stock rebuilt heads (mildly ported), E303 cam, Edelbrock Performer RPM intake, Quickfuel 670 carb. Im thinking this combo is worth about 280-300 HP. I have a set of GT40 heads sitting on the shelf just in case I need another 20 HP.

Most engine builders can get you this combo pretty cheap, everything above cost me about $2500, which included a used rebuilt AOD trans.

[videodude]

You guys must be in the wrong part of the country, as there have been plenty of used Fox "donor" candidates, with relatively low mileage, for sale in the San Francisco Bay Area as of late. Check Craigslist. The cheapest one I have seen lately was a driveable '93 convertible (out of date registration, no big deal) for $500, but there have been lots more (stock ones) in what looked to be pretty good condition for less than $2,500. Most of what is for sale are rag tops, as the hardtops are still used for racing purposes and command higher prices. FWIW

Video

[wallace18]

I built a mostly stock 5.0 from a 93 donor mustang for my 33 with a 3:08 rear gear. Plenty of power and a great cruiser with the T-5. Donor cars are very easy to find in FL as well.

[Avalanche325]

I would stay away from the 4.6L. There is nothing wrong with them. However, they are getting to be a bit of an orphan platform. The only reason to go for a 351 is if you were doing a bigger stroker. Stick with a 302, probably really a 306 with an overbore on a seasoned block. That will hit the HP you are looking for with the least amount of money spent. A Boss or DART block is not needed unless you are going over 500HP and/or 6500RPMs.

[bil1024]

talk to Gordon or fortes and you'll be good

[WIS89]

Haziz-

The folks at Forte's, the Engine Factory, and even Blueprint can set you up very well. I think your expectations are reasonable, and you can find exactly what you are looking for, without breaking the bank.

It sounds like reliability is important, and a fuel injected 302 can give you everything you want and more. Good luck with your decision, and let us know what you decide!

Regards,

Steve

[dougski]

Give Gordon at Levy Racing a call. He is very knowledgeable and easy to work with. I am expecting my engine from him in the next week or so and will post pictures when it arrives.

Doug