First Post With Oiling Question

[RaceMattC]

Hello,
I have been reading the forums for the past year or so and have finally decided to start contributing. Just a little background for context: I have been around vintage cars since I was 19 and was a Race Engineer in my past life. I still have a love for classic cars (and the roadster is one of the most beautiful), but being an engineer, want to always have the newest in tech. So the goal is to have a vintage looking car, but one that I can fiddle with every parameter for track use.

I am starting to plan my build now, so when I get the go-ahead from the other half of the financing department, I’ll know what I am doing. Right now I’d like to do a MKIV Roadster with the following specs:


2016 Mustang GT350 Crate Engine (I realize they may never crate this engine, in which case I am going to be building it). Hopefully the flat plane sound carries over with the side pipes.
2015 Mustang IRS
Tremec Magnum XL
Some form of large brake kit
Replace aluminum panels with bonded carbon fiber to create a stressed skin (still under budgetary approval)


There is only one question that could be a major dealbreaker. How does the Coyote platform perform with oiling when slicks are installed on these cars? In general, do these cars need a dry sump? Information has been sparse with this particular engine-tire combo.

Other questions that are lower on the priority list:
The chassis is built with A36 tube. Is there any chance to order it with 4130 chromoly? Has anyone ever tried this? I'd like to have the higher yield strength since the car will be tracked.

[DaleG]

I think your 2 questions could be answered definitively by Ford Racing and FFR, respectively.

[David Hodgkins]

Matt(?),

Welcome to the forum! Boy those are some tough questions! I'm forwarding to FFR tech to see what they can bring to the thread.

:)

[Greg Hoy]

Hello RaceMattC,

We don't offer an option to order your chassis built with 4130 chromoly. Just asked Jim in engineering, Coyote powered car and slicks he would recommend running a dry sump for a serious track car, Accusump at a minimum.

Greg
Factory Five

[68GT500MAN]

Welcome to the forum.
Doug

[RaceMattC]

Thanks all for the helpful responses, I really appreciate it! An accusump is not the end of the world. I'll run the numbers and make sure it can sustain the longest high-G corner we have in Northern California (turn 2 at Thunderhill).

[CraigS]

Realizing that we like to think our FFRs are the top of the heap, in reality there are faster cars. I would be researching what the GT350Rs that are being raced are using. Did Ford put a completely race capable oiling system in the car as it is sold? How about the cars that actually go to race teams? I know there are special drag racing cars but am not sure if there are road racing versions available or not. I would talk to Ford Racing.

[RaceMattC]

I'll see if I can figure out what the GT350R's are running. I know the FR500S with the 4.6mod did not need even an accusump with slicks, so I thought there was some hope. I hope the Cobra could develop more lateral G's in the corners because it is so much lighter. All things being equal (not including aero) they should.

[Mitch Wright]

I can tell you Ford did a lot of track testing with the GT350 and GT350R with a number of days on our track specifically tweaking the oiling system for track use prior to the cars being released.
You will also need to look into motor mounts, Ford did a ton of work to minimize the vibration from the flat crank.
I will say the engine sounds great at full song.

[RaceMattC]

The engine sounds excellent in the GT350 (a coworker just bought one and has been giving rides!). I just hope it doesn't get split up by the side pipes and suffer from the same problem the Viper does.

[edwardb]

I think the challenge with the GT350 will be the headers. Not the side pipes. They are a very unique configuration. Many of the tech articles have talked about them. Also, everything I've heard and read from Ford is that these engines will not be offered in crate form.

[RaceMattC]

I haven't seen anything about the headers. I wonder if it would then require a completely custom set? I am skeptical as well that ford is going to offer a crate of the flat plane crank. There are rumors there will crossplane crank version with the same (or higher) output offered. It looked like it was an evolution of the Aluminator. If so, it would then be only a matter of swapping the crank out plus the firing order. This is why I mentioned building it myself. It seems pointless to buy a crate engine that you are going to tear apart anyway.

By the way edwardb, your build thread is awesome. I will for sure be borrowing many of the parts and techniques you have shown!

[SkiRideDrive]

Subscribing out of curiosity regarding coyote oiling starvation.

Also, perhaps an aftermarket oil pan like this could help?

https://www.cantonracingproducts.com/product/15-736/15-736---COYOTE-ROAD-RACE-KIT-CAR-REAR-SUMP/

[edwardb]

I haven't seen anything about the headers. I wonder if it would then require a completely custom set? I am skeptical as well that ford is going to offer a crate of the flat plane crank. There are rumors there will crossplane crank version with the same (or higher) output offered. It looked like it was an evolution of the Aluminator. If so, it would then be only a matter of swapping the crank out plus the firing order. This is why I mentioned building it myself. It seems pointless to buy a crate engine that you are going to tear apart anyway.

By the way edwardb, your build thread is awesome. I will for sure be borrowing many of the parts and techniques you have shown!

Thanks! Glad you find my build thread useful. Enjoying the build and there's enough new stuff going on it's generating lots of interest. Regarding the headers, here's just one brief mention about them: http://blog.caranddriver.com/holy-flat-plane-crankshaft-we-finally-get-an-in-depth-look-at-the-ford-mustang-shelby-gt350gt350rs-5-2-liter-v-8/. Specifically talks about them being a 4-into-3-into-1 configuration and related to the 180 degree side-to-side firing order. This is what I've read in multiple places. Seems it would take custom headers to duplicate.