Welding machines suitable for our hobby.

[flynntuna]

I'm starting this thread so as not to clog Andrews thread. http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?16067-Andrew-amp-Tamra-s-818SR-EM-Autox-Hybrid-Destroked-Long-Rod-Build&p=223347#post223347

Andrew mentioned he purchased an Eastwood stick/tig 80amp machine and was using it while his regular tig machine was down. http://www.eastwood.com/arc-80-with-tig-torch.html?reltype=2&parent_id=51506

This unit grabbed my attention since I'm in the market (even though my sons friend has a Mig unit) for a welder. My first job was a welder at a shipyard using an arc welder while going to college and haven't welded since. The low cost and portability (it will run off a generator) puts it on the short list.

Harbor Fright and others have a similar unit without the Tig feature or the three year warranty. Anyway... What are your thoughts for a suitable welder?

[xxguitarist]

Warranty won out for me, especially since I was getting it to sub in while my other machine was down..

80A does limit thickness that you can get in a single pass.
The addition of TIG lets you get much tidier welds for exhaust etc.

Big point to consider: Steel only or also Aluminum? Aluminum requires AC welding.

Oh, and for anyone on the fence about a welder in general, yes, it's something we use frequently, and couldn't really live without for building a car like this. Add an (electric) angle grinder with various wheels, and go to town.

[Hindsight]

I second Andrew's advice. I could not have made this car the way I wanted to and wouldn't have personally been happy with the results without being able to weld (or afford someone else to weld for me).

Some things I welded:
- Bung on the aluminum coolant manifold to add a coolant bleeder hose
- Bung for an IATS on the aluminum intake manifold
- MR2 shifter and linkage
- Welded grounding studs to the frame
- Welded 1" square steel tubing to extend the rear frame to the side to mount an oil cooler
- Oil cooler shroud
- Custom AWIC degas tank (aluminum)
- Custom engine coolant degas tank (aluminum)
- Seat brackets
- Harness brackets
- AWIC water pump mount
- ABS mount

There is more I am forgetting and I'm not yet done with the build. It also comes in handy to make and modify tools.

I had never used a welder of any kind before I bought the Eastwood TIG 200 last year. Just by practicing and watching youtube videos, I've been able to put down some good welds.

I also bought an abrasive chop-saw for steel, and use my standard dewalt chop saw (with a wood blade on it) and my table saw for cutting aluminum. I also use a cordless dewalt jigsaw with a metal blade for a lot of metal cuts and it works amazingly well... it's a very good and cheap substitute for a bandsaw.

I agree with Andrew - Warranty is king. Eastwood is known for good support. Harbor Freight..... maybe not so much.

[Mechie3]

Eastwood Tig200. My first one died after a while (would do a funny thing where it would shut off, cycling power made it fine again for 5 minutes, 1 hour, who knew). They paid to ship back the old one and send a new one no questions asked. I've spent many, many hours on it doing steel and aluminum.

It was on sale last week for.....$650?

I'm by no means an expert.
http://i.imgur.com/hfgxMWY.jpg

[DanielsDM]

I recently got a Thermal Arc 186 which can do aluminum. I chose it over some others because it has adjustable wave balance and foot pedal control.
The Eastwood 80A looks like a good machine for the money. Like Andrew said you will only be able to weld steel and the thickness will be limited by the 80A max current. I have a low end 85A flux core mig welder that is well... worth what I paid for it. If your just doing low thickness steel then the Eastwood will probably do fine.

[redfogo]

I have a Miller MIG 211. It came with a spool gun so you can MIG aluminum. I enjoy it I am a noob to welding had it for about a year now. The auto set option makes for a quick set and go. MIG is a bit more easy compared to TIG to learn in my opinion. Like anything its all about practice to get nice results. TIG can do it all though which is a great plus. For me I rather MIG steel, and TIG aluminum and stainless. I haven't tried my spool gun yet though need to get some gas for it! I have seen amazing results with MIG aluminum + spool guns though in the right hands of course.

[Aero STI]

My TIG is an Everlast 250EX with the water cooler. 250 amps and does all sorts of fancy stuff. I added a second regulator to back purge. It has been a great machine and is very comparable to 2x or 3x more expensive units by Miller or Lincoln.

[Wayne Presley]

I have the Everlast 200DX and really like it, I got it for $1250 delivered. I added a water cooled torch later. I replaced a Miller square wave 175 with it. I know have AC frequency, pulse and balance controls. I've been using it for 3 years without issue.

[Zach34]

I have a water-cooled Miller Dynasty 200DX TIG machine and a Millermatic 190 MIG. I worked up to both of those machines over a lot of years. I would recommend a MIG over stick for most car stuff. I don't have a lot of stick experience, but the MIG will be able to tackle thin-gauge sheet metal much easier than the stick welder. My first welders were an old Hobart MIG machine and a Miller Diversion 180 (previous to current model when they were cheaper). The Millermatic is incredibly easy to use and gives fantastic results. I highly recommend it. The Dynasty can do literally anything on a car and is complete overkill for a hobbyist like me. The toughest task I tackled with it were some custom stainless sidepipes for my Mk II I built years ago. Great machine.

My 2 cents is to get a quality MIG machine, set it up with gas shielding (flux core is a good solution in a pinch but your best results will be with gas), and practice a lot.

[xxguitarist]

A couple notes from more use of my stand-in TIG machine (Eastwood 80A) last night.

No pedal control sucks when you're trying to fill a little gap in the mating parts. It's fine if it's a consistent thickness, gap, etc.
Since the gas is controlled by a knob on the torch, it's possible (read: likely) that you will forget to turn it on occasionally.
Scratch start isn't ideal, occasionally you'll wind up with the tungsten sticking. Also have to be much more careful to not get flashed, since the torch is live if the power is on.

[Frank818]

Although I know nada about TIG, for MIG for our hobbies I wouldn't go under 140a on 120v. I find myself often using the max voltage setup. That's ok cuz it's sufficient for our hobbies (for me) and cuz like you I gauged the smallest machine I could get for the job and the guys helped me find that one. I would certainly have cried many times with a 80a MIG...

[bbjones121]

I have the Everlast 200DX and really like it, I got it for $1250 delivered. I added a water cooled torch later. I replaced a Miller square wave 175 with it. I know have AC frequency, pulse and balance controls. I've been using it for 3 years without issue.

I have this one also, I love it. Does everything needed on the kit. I welded up all the aluminum ports on my power steering, steering rack and pinion slack, welded my firewall as one piece, welded my stainless steel exhaust, carefully welded extra gas pedal supports, welded exhaust hangers, welded abs module mount, welded brake line tabs, welded radiator support, welded seat mounting tabs, welded hvac supports, etc.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-LrLCl9YjTV0/VU7vjmvrhUI/AAAAAAAAZ6g/-hsKMMaDP0g/s800-Ic42/DSC04629.JPG

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-cNGOzRE8StU/VRi32Z0qfrI/AAAAAAAAZVU/edQAHLIzXKQ/s800-Ic42/DSC04473.JPG

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-YmVAbv1ltaA/VPPvq6_-XJI/AAAAAAAAY9g/pwgwsFoFPm4/s800-Ic42/DSC04404.JPG

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-CMU1SyQAqJI/VPPvpEPxl9I/AAAAAAAAY9g/wVP59RsnEOE/s800-Ic42/DSC04400.JPG

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-PAISiPpjr30/ViXCn8pZtqI/AAAAAAAAaeg/1KxEH6moY4Q/s800-Ic42/0905151448.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/--ZJcpma_Zps/Vldt8xUHxhI/AAAAAAAAaw8/YjYIRChEyOg/s800-Ic42/1111151109.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-gOxF8RESy3M/VpCxVScNEtI/AAAAAAAAa2g/ciXzd1GEKiA/s800-Ic42/1128151047a.jpg

[flynntuna]

Thanks for the input, I think I've narrowed the field to the Eastwood arc 80, and either the Everlast 200st or the Everlasti 160sth. http://www.everlastgenerators.com/catalog-stick-welders.

How valuable is having a foot pedal when tig welding exhaust parts? Cost is a factor and I realize that welding aluminum can't be tig'ed with these dc units.
Thanks

[bbjones121]

Thanks for the input, I think I've narrowed the field to the Eastwood arc 80, and either the Everlast 200st or the Everlasti 160sth. http://www.everlastgenerators.com/catalog-stick-welders.

How valuable is having a foot pedal when tig welding exhaust parts? Cost is a factor and I realize that welding aluminum can't be tig'ed with these dc units.
Thanks

You will have a very hard time welding exhaust with a stick welder. With stainless, you will need something you can run at 40 amps max with foot pedal adjusting in between.

[Hindsight]

Foot pedal is critical IMHO. You need the control. As the material heats up, you need less amperage, and same for edges and corners or they will blow out. A lot more reasons for needing the pedal but it's hard to explain.

[Wayne Presley]

Thanks for the input, I think I've narrowed the field to the Eastwood arc 80, and either the Everlast 200st or the Everlasti 160sth. http://www.everlastgenerators.com/catalog-stick-welders.

How valuable is having a foot pedal when tig welding exhaust parts? Cost is a factor and I realize that welding aluminum can't be tig'ed with these dc units.
Thanks

You will kick yourself if you don't get AC for welding aluminum down the road...

[Hindsight]

I agree - I have welded far more aluminum than steel on this project.

[bbjones121]

I agree.

[Mitch Wright]

Agree, I have a Lincoln 175 Mig machine that I have had for 20+ years and the Eastwood 200 tig machine I bought last year. I had a Miller Sycrowave Machine but made the mistake of selling before one of our moves. Moral to that story, never sell a good welder. The Eastwood machine has been great for what I am doing now and does a good job on both Aluminum and Steel. Being aircooled though the handle does get hot when doing long aluminum welds. A good excuse to take a break.

[flynntuna]

You will kick yourself if you don't get AC for welding aluminum down the road...

I know. I looked at the everlast power tig 185(DV). I'm trying to justify the investment for the welder, foot pedal, shielding gas bottles ect. Vs farming out the needed work.

[Wayne Presley]

I know. I looked at the everlast power tig 185(DV). I'm trying to justify the investment for the welder, foot pedal, shielding gas bottles ect. Vs farming out the needed work.

Well that's on this project...Down the line you never know what you are going to need welded. I'd get the PowerTIG185 amp welder ($899) with A/C and bite the bullet on a few more dollars.

How much would it have cost bbjones to have that exhaust built? It would have been at least $1500 from Kooks. You could buy the nicer Everlast TIG and all the components for that...

[Wayne Presley]

Oh and if you call Everlast directly, you can usually get them to lower the price or throw in some free accessories and/or shipping. Might even suggest to them you heard about their products at the SEMA show but were not in a position to buy then and could you still get the SEMA show discount

[dukegrad98]

I've got an Everlast that I purchased at Wayne's recommendation about a year ago. Seeing the welds you guys have done with yours makes me sick! Mine look like crap, on both steel and aluminum. I just haven't had enough time to practice to be any good, and I haven't had any one-on-one instruction that I'm sure would really speed it up for me. I'm pretty happy with the quality and appearance of my MIG welds using an old Snap-on rig that I bought used and have had for ten years or so, but my TIG is just junk! Maybe this will inspire me to get some good tips on settings and get out to the shop to practice a little bit...

Cheers, John

[Mitch Wright]

John,

Check out your local Community Collage or VoTech school, most offer welding classes. I have a buddy that just finished a 6 week welding class and the boy can really lay down some beads.
I had a neighbor that had a shop at his house taught me how to gas weld and braze when I was a kid. Tig is basically an electric torch, anyway the more you weld the better you will get.

[Wayne Presley]

John,
You can come by and I'll show you what I know.

[bbjones121]

Oh and if you call Everlast directly, you can usually get them to lower the price or throw in some free accessories and/or shipping. Might even suggest to them you heard about their products at the SEMA show but were not in a position to buy then and could you still get the SEMA show discount

Yes, talk to them, you can probably work out a deal. They are very helpful in that aspect.

[TX-Lou]

Ok. So I haven't welded since high school (about 30 years ago). I can see welding has come a long way in terms of tools and what is available. But I'm going to have to learn and practice so that we can do some of the things we are planning for this build.

I was considering picking up a Hobart Stickmate LX 235 AC / 160 DC Stick Welder (Same as Miller Thunderbolt). It looks like a good unit for basic welding that should be able to handle anything we need to do as far as steel is concerned. I believe it can handle Aluminum welding with some TIG add-ons but I doubt we will be messing with that. If we really need some aluminum welding done I'll find someone in the area who will do it right.

I just wanted to see if anyone had any thoughts, comments or warnings.

Thanks!

[flynntuna]

To add a twist... Has anyone used oxy/ acetylene to weld on automotive projects?

[Loring]

Just saw this thread and coincidentally got a powertig 200dv about 2 weeks ago. It was the first of many boxes to show up.

[Jacob McCrea]

I bought a Miller 211 MIG machine and have been pretty happy with it. I later added a spool gun for welding aluminum, and I've welded stainless steel with the spool gun as well. The upside is that it has a lot of power, is versatile and is easy to use. The downside is that I needed to buy 3 bottles of gas to do carbon steel (75/25 mix), stainless steel (an expensive tri-mix of argon, helium and co2) and aluminum (100% argon), and despite having around 2k in the complete setup I still don't have the precision of a tig machine. I've been looking at the AHP Alpha Tig for a small, inexpensive tig machine; it seems to get good reviews online.

[turbomacncheese]

Sounds like aluminum is a must, if one commits to welding? I had a mig box a few years ago, but got talked into selling it when we moved. I have to put a welder on my build budget, so I'm looking.

[NAZ]

Before making any purchase go find a community college or adult school that provides welding classes. Learn something about the craft and gain experience with the different processes -- you'll make a better choice. If you want to play a bit with a welder on one project you might be satisfied with a low end welder as you teach yourself to melt metal. But consider the purchase as disposable. These "hobbyist" machines will frustrate you with all their limitations when you start getting serious about welding. Buy cheap = buy twice. If you're going to be tinkering with metal beyond what it takes to build one kit car, forget the Harbor Freight class welders and purchase an industrial type welder. These are no compromise machines that will last for years and have resale value. But first, you select a machine based on the welding you plan to do. Not one process handles all materials. For most beginners welding on mild steel a MIG welder will probably be the best choice. If you plan to weld aluminum you're going to want a 200 amp minimum TIG welder. Aluminum takes a lot more heat than steel. Don't be afraid to buy a used machine -- good welders last 40 or 50 years and shops will trade in old technology to upgrade to a new machine. I learned to weld when I was twelve and after the Army, spent a couple years in welding school. I spent many years welding for a living and have used a large variety of welders over the last five decades. Get training and buy industrial quality equipment and you won't regret it.

[redfogo]

I love my Miller 211. The Autoset function is amazing and basically takes all the work out of set up. It just makes it a pull the trigger and go! I have a spool gun for aluminum I haven't gotten a chance to try it yet though. Some say aluminum is a must but I honestly have not had much aluminum stuff to weld on my 818 kit.

I know if I had a CNC machine and knowledge like Craig I would be making aluminum parts all the time! But to be honest I don't have that skill set and I am okay with giving my money for those parts to Craig. And any aluminum bracket I can normal make myself with aluminum from the store.

As for stainless steel I'm not into the bling of SS so I normally just paint it. Which means if I have SS parts I will just weld it with normal C25 and paint it. It works great only difference is it will rust if left uncoated.

[Jacob McCrea]

With that Miller 211 I've been able to weld some really heavy steel, e.g., building grating for a drain at our house, extending a drop hitch for our camper trailer, and a litany of other little fabrication tasks. Regardless of whether you buy a mig or tig, I really feel you are best served by buying the best and most versatile machine you can reasonably afford. I know it's easy to talk about spending money that isn't mine, but this is a time to buy a little bigger and better machine than what you can get away with using.