Shoulder harness on square Frame?

[redfogo]

Has anyone found any rules or been teched and recieved an okay with mounting the shoulder harness to the square tube frame? I was an idiot and ordered the FFR hanrness mount. It's far too high unless I mount my seat above the roll bar and that's not going to happen.

[michael everson]

What do you mean by too high? Mine seemed fine.
Mike

[JeromeS13]

You're fine, as long as there's no rubbing on a sharp edge.

[redfogo]

What do you mean by too high? Mine seemed fine.
Mike

The harness bar angles the belts down. So the belt is 10deg above the shoulder. They need to be 0deg or going at an upward angle no more then 10deg up. The frame bars dont seem sharp so seem okay to use. But was seeing if anyone had that teched or not.

Talked more about in this thread.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?13537-Lets-talk-Harnesses

[Hindsight]

I was welding some tabs onto the frame today for my seat and as I did, I started putting more thought into the same thing: Where am I going to mount the harness.

I too am going to ditch the FFR harness bar. It is too high. I wasn't able to find a racing seat I liked at a reasonable price that has the shoulder strap holes high enough for me. My shoulders sit half an inch to an inch higher than the top of the holes. Anyway, I thought about wrapping around the large square tube, or bolting it to the tube. Two issues with wrapping are: 1 - If you have added a rear firewall (like I did) you will have to cut a notch out for it, and 2 - It exposes some of the harness webbing in the engine compartment. #1 isn't too big of a deal I guess. #2 probably isn't either but I wonder if a tech inspector would have an issue with it.

[Aero STI]

I welded some very thick round tubing to the square bar.

http://i.imgur.com/cMvI3nvh.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/BrxRuXth.jpg

[redfogo]

Hmmm that seems like a good idea as well. If I do that I think I will use some eye bolts.

[Hindsight]

One other option would be to buy some weld tabs like the ones in the link below, then weld them to the top of the square tubing. I like Andrew's option a lot but I'm guessing he MIG welded them? I don't have a MIG (only TIG) and getting into the crevice to weld the round tube to the square tube would be a real challenge on a TIG.

http://www.jegs.com/i/JEGS-Performance-Products/555/70040/10002/-1?parentProductId=1347758

[Aero STI]

I used those exact tabs for my lower harness mounts. I have 5 point harnesses so the 6 tabs worked perfectly for the lower 3 mounts of both seats.

The upper harness mounts tubes were actually TIG welded. The picture makes them look a little tilted, but they're perfectly perpendicular. Stick out the electrode 3/4-1" past the cup and crank up the amperage. This would have been a great use of the MIG, but it was at my toy barn 15 minutes away at the time.

[Hindsight]

Wow ok, impressive. What flow did you have on the argon for such a big exposure on the electrode and did you use a gas lense? #8 cup?

[redfogo]

Hmmm I like the ideas coming :). I like the tab idea the most at the moment I will have to test out the angles. Tube idea seems great as well, but with the engine already in I can see me having troubles getting my mig torch at the right angle.

[Aero STI]

Wow ok, impressive. What flow did you have on the argon for such a big exposure on the electrode and did you use a gas lense? #8 cup?

I was using a stubby gas lens, probably #8. Flow around 20 SCFH.

[xxguitarist]

I cut off the FFR tabs, and re-welded them lower. We just mounted our harness bar to the back side (previously on the front) Had to thin out one wall of the spacers- just put a flat on it- to clear the roll cage.
Bonus: Didn't have to shorten the FFR harness bar.

[redfogo]

I talked with Schroth this morning.
They recommended not to wrap the belts around the frame square bar, they said the load of force can't be evenly dispersed like it can be on a rounded tube. They said you could possibly get away with it since its a large tube on the frame, but its not ideal. So I will just be welding in some mounts onto the frame. Like Hindsight or Aero STI stated.

[Hindsight]

Interesting they said that because if you bolt the harness via a tab, the little "buckle" thing it routes through that bears all the weight has a very small surface area. Smaller than a square frame tube.

[redfogo]

Yeah that's one other thing to think about. However Schroth didn't seem to be concerned about the bar being the point of failure. It seemed the concern was more on how the stress would be more on a single point on the belt in an accident with a square compared to a rounded tube though. It's more stress on a specific spot on the belt versus evenly distribution it around the whole belt.

I would think if the belt was an even zero deg so straight back the stress would be distributed fine since its the stress on the flat surface of the frame. However for most people I would assume your going to have the belt having a slight angle when your actually sitting in the car. Belt would be like this-----> \ to a degree. This would my guess make it so the tubes edge is more of the stress point and where the belt will be distributing its force. It could work like a knife and cut the harness. Again Schroth said it was not ideal but could work but would not recommend it. If it was a round tube it would be fine its just that there is so much possible angles that the stress could be on that bar that it could work like a knife on the belt.

[Hindsight]

Here is what the harness will go through if you get the ends that are bolted to something. All the weight is going to be resting on this thin single sliver. So compare this, vs wrapping around a square tubing. The square tubing has much greater area to distribute load, vs the brackets that the harness ships with so I am confused by their advice. Regardless, I'm not going to wrap because it's going to get in the way of my firewall. I'm just going to weld a tab to it and bolt the bracket to the tab. Easy.
49478

[redfogo]

I see what your saying though! I can't really defend one or the other both seem okay to me to be honest. I too rather use the tabs though so I can mount in my firewalls easy.