The latest chassis leak....

[PhyrraM]

Ok, sorry for the glamorized title

This is what is posted by FFR in their main website and I'm sure it's still preliminary and subject to change.

http://www.factoryfive.com/whatsnew/showevent/openhouse/2011/images/818.jpg

What I see is:

OEM Subaru front knuckles/hubs with fabricated A-arm adapters in the 'stock' location up front.
OEM Subaru front lower control arm w/OEM bushings in the stock location up front.
OEM steering rack and steering column.
FFR sourced/fabricated uppercontrol arms in the front.
OEM rear trailing link, in the rear.
OEM rear lateral link/s, in the rear. These suggest OEM rear knuckles/hubs.
OEM sized wheels, but with non-OEM staggered tire sizes
NOT OEM coilover shocks at all 4 corners.

As it looks in the pic, I see no center tunnel structure. I would normally be concerned about torsional rigidity as it sits without a tunnel, but I know that Jim is a much better engineer than I.

[readymix]

I noticed something odd in there. And this is merely speculation at this point. But the item outlined in green on my picture appears to be some sort of bracket that attaches to the 2 bolt mount point for the OEM strut on the front spindle. The way it is shaped and the way it contours around the tire leads me to believe this might be a front wheel arch mounting point. Again, this is prototype renderings, so maybe it is just something they were tossing around.
1981

[wjfawb0]

The diagonal braces from the rear and front bulkheads down to the floor in the middle could be interesting for elbow room. It looks like they are keeping most of the stock suspension to help meet the price goal. Looks good to me.

[PhyrraM]

I noticed something odd in there. And this is merely speculation at this point. But the item outlined in green on my picture appears to be some sort of bracket that attaches to the 2 bolt mount point for the OEM strut on the front spindle. The way it is shaped and the way it contours around the tire leads me to believe this might be a front wheel arch mounting point. Again, this is prototype renderings, so maybe it is just something they were tossing around.

I don't think that is for a wheel arch. I think it's simply an adapter that allow the strut based front knuckle to use an upper A-arm.

[Someday I Suppose]

It also looks a lot like the current part used on the roadster to adapt the mustang front spindle to the upper a-arm. The part might not even be designed yet to use on the sube front and just a grab from the roadster cad files.



I don't think that is for a wheel arch. I think it's simply an adapter that allow the strut based front knuckle to use an upper A-arm.

[Rotr8]

huh, I was pretty close with the exception of drawing about 20-22 in rims,,,

http://img851.imageshack.us/img851/9788/car1frontqframesmall.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/851/car1frontqframesmall.jpg/)

[smiley_2]

I have to question something about the front suspension design…

Why do the control arms point rearward, like they do on the WRX? Why not switch them sides (as well as the spindles) to make them point forward, as on most mid/rear engine cars? The example of the Porsche 993 comes to my mind, as it looks like an inversion of the Subaru’s front-end. This would make more sense on a packaging point of view, as it would free-up room at the front of the cockpit and provide the ability to move the driving position forward.

[PhyrraM]

......

Why do the control arms point rearward, ...... Why not switch them sides (as well as the spindles) to make them point forward, ......

Because if you swapped the spindles (making them rear steer), the car would go left when the steering wheel was turned right. It's also likely that the lower ball joints are set at an angle to match the factory castor setting. Swapping the lower control arms would likely put the ball joint at an exagerated angle at rest, and risk bottoming out and breaking the ball joint under motion.

[smiley_2]

Swapping the lower control arms would likely put the ball joint at an exagerated angle at rest, and risk bottoming out and breaking the ball joint under motion.

OK... just that risk kills the idea!

[bromikl]

Because if you swapped the spindles (making them rear steer), the car would go left when the steering wheel was turned right. It's also likely that the lower ball joints are set at an angle to match the factory castor setting. Swapping the lower control arms would likely put the ball joint at an exagerated angle at rest, and risk bottoming out and breaking the ball joint under motion.

I don't know anything about the exaggerated angle, or bottoming out. But inverting the steering rack would correct the left-right problem.

[PhyrraM]

I don't know anything about the exaggerated angle, or bottoming out. But inverting the steering rack would correct the left-right problem.

But wouldn't that also put the steering wheel on the 'wrong' side?

[riptide motorsport]

theres leaks in the chassis?!!!!!!!!!!!! Say it aint so.

[bromikl]

But wouldn't that also put the steering wheel on the 'wrong' side?

Maybe. Never gave it much thought.

[GUNS]

huh, I was pretty close with the exception of drawing about 20-22 in rims,,,

http://img851.imageshack.us/img851/9788/car1frontqframesmall.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/851/car1frontqframesmall.jpg/)

I loved your designs. Please submit them so I can drive it some day.

[labmonkee]

Or the Right side :)

But wouldn't that also put the steering wheel on the 'wrong' side?

[leo35]

Maybe. Never gave it much thought.

Yes please submit Rotr8. I would pay a premium to drive something like this.

[spaceywilly]

Ok, sorry for the glamorized title

This is what is posted by FFR in their main website and I'm sure it's still preliminary and subject to change.


What I see is:

OEM Subaru front knuckles/hubs with fabricated A-arm adapters in the 'stock' location up front.
OEM Subaru front lower control arm w/OEM bushings in the stock location up front.
OEM steering rack and steering column.
FFR sourced/fabricated uppercontrol arms in the front.
OEM rear trailing link, in the rear.
OEM rear lateral link/s, in the rear. These suggest OEM rear knuckles/hubs.
OEM sized wheels, but with non-OEM staggered tire sizes
NOT OEM coilover shocks at all 4 corners.

As it looks in the pic, I see no center tunnel structure. I would normally be concerned about torsional rigidity as it sits without a tunnel, but I know that Jim is a much better engineer than I.

Also looks like it will probably use the OEM steering wheel, FWIW

Here's some parts that might be of interest to people building an 818, based on this drawing:
STi lateral link set
http://www.fastwrx.com/stilaliset.html

STi trailing link set
http://www.fastwrx.com/stitrliset.html

[2KWIK4U]

I think we still have to wait for the official release to know which model and year is ideal for the build before we can start buying upgrade parts, right?

[Dave Smith]

I was reviewing the chassis this morning with Jim before it is sent to powder-coating for the open house. It's amazing how close the software version comes in real-life, still there are substantial changes that the production cars will have but that most people will not notice. Things like bracket design, adding radiuses, etc. The Open House will have the 818 chassis on display and Jim had strategically convinced NASA to have a race on the same week-end so he wont be here personally.... I think there will be a great amount of discussion following the results of the judging and the winners of the competition. I also think that alot of questions will become clear as the design work progresses.

[Steve91T]

I was reviewing the chassis this morning with Jim before it is sent to powder-coating for the open house. It's amazing how close the software version comes in real-life, still there are substantial changes that the production cars will have but that most people will not notice. Things like bracket design, adding radiuses, etc. The Open House will have the 818 chassis on display and Jim had strategically convinced NASA to have a race on the same week-end so he wont be here personally.... I think there will be a great amount of discussion following the results of the judging and the winners of the competition. I also think that alot of questions will become clear as the design work progresses.

After the open house, will there be more frequent progress updates? I wasn't sure if that's what you meant.

Steve

[Dave Smith]

What I meant was that we should have a better idea of the timeline and, keeping in mind the difference between say a targa, a convert, and a full-on coupe, based on the competition direction and ideas taken from it, we will be able to be perhaps more specific about things like parts being used, etc. I guess Im saying that we have given as much information as possible, but have not wanted to corrupt the creativity of the contest. Inevitably there will be more concrete directions and plans after this stage is over. As far as communicating on a more regular basis, I think all FFR designs have been fairly collaborative, but I think too much involvement leads to a watered down car. Jim needs to take his vision to reality with the help of the community, as we';ve always done, but not with daily posts that promise things that never happen.

[Franze]

Interesting point Dave..

[thebeerbaron]

Very good points about diluting the visions of either the contestants or Jim. One of the things that has me so amped up for this car is the singular focus I think I see in FFR towards hitting the goals for this killer machine.

I'm planning to attend the Open House, hopefully there will be lots of 818 content to the day! What convenient timing for Jim... maybe the 818 contingent should take a field trip and corner him between sessions at the track! :)

[Oppenheimer]

yes, agree with no expectation of regular status updates or of open collaboration discussions. Its your car, your vision, your design. You can silently listen to the feedback on this forum, and glean what you wish, but still make your car, your way. There has always been a lot to like in FFR designs, part of the great success, and none of those involved this much client input so soon in the process. I think that more client involvement great, but its also possible to overdo it. Even though I'm itching to know more, I think you've made the right choices on how much to share, how much to engage.

[D2W]

I'm on the other side of the fence about regular updates. It would be nice if you (Dave) were available to answer questions we may have about the design and give us a little more feedback on what was happening with the design. Please notice I'm not saying you should ask for input, only offer up some info to keep us interested.

In the defense of community input, I have to say it is a very powerful tool. Many good ideas can flow from a large focus group of people, however it is up to the head designer (Jim in this case) to weed out what is good and bad, and make the final decision as to what makes it in the end.

[Dave Smith]

I am all alone here at FFR as the Holiday weekend gets underway. Regarding the community-based development stuff, i personally feel that alot of companies make a big deal out of this, while we simply do. The hallmark of our company has been community, evolution of product based on feedback from the same, and the ability to strike the right balance between feedback and the singular vision that commonly brings greatness. I think the the 818 has already been the most collaborative car to date and I wont mind stepping in and giving you guys candid updates and probing the community at the right forks in the road. Keep in mind that there IS and has already been an army of close development customers, builders and guys in the community who have added real, qualified help. We've done beta programs (real ones that were limited to 4-6 guys with varied talents building cars before they were in production NOT some insane number like 50 or so just to pretend in order to sell cars that arent developed as some companies do).

I will bring up the level of discourse as we go further, but hope that we've struck the right balance in the body design chapter of the story here.

Have a great Memorial Day and thank a Vet for the truth that we spend our days doing such fun things in a dangerous world where freedom is, and always will be under assault. USA.

[riptide motorsport]

Well said Dave////////////Happy Memorial day. .Steven

[kach22i]

It would have been nice to have seen these sort of images in the beginning.

I suspect several of the designs posted would have become more minimalist, or at least not so high in the back and wedge-like.

[Justen]

It would have been nice to have seen these sort of images in the beginning.

I suspect several of the designs posted would have become more minimalist, or at least not so high in the back and wedge-like.

This image was up on the ffr site the day the contest started

[Fast818]

Looking forward to see the chassis after open house

[Dave Smith]

Many parts of the chassis (like the rear vert roll bar) are changeable. We wanted variety in the contest and after seeing the submissions first-hand, I can tell you they are amazing!

[PhyrraM]

I think this needs to be in this thread.

http://www.factoryfive.com/whatsnew/showevent/openhouse/2011/images/1.jpg

I've noticed a few things, but I will have to wait until after work to point them out.

[Someday I Suppose]

I think we need a caption contest for that photo, Jim and Brian both have that well what should we do now look.

[kach22i]

Captions?

[stephen]

" I still think it would look better with bigger wheels at the front"

- Stephen

[PhyrraM]

Stolen from another seemingly unrelated thread....

http://www.factoryfive.com/whatsnew/update/062711/images/IMG-20110627-00204.jpg
http://www.factoryfive.com/whatsnew/update/062711/images/IMG-20110627-00205.jpg

[Someday I Suppose]

Interesting find on the roadster body pic, but I don't think that is the 818 chassis under the body, in fact you can see the 818 frame in the foreground with it. I don't think it's another 818 frame as the roll cage pic up points are all a bit different on the one under the roadster body.

I am wondering if they are fitting a new body on Ed's 25 hour car?

-Scott

[mrmustang]

Stolen from another seemingly unrelated thread....

http://www.factoryfive.com/whatsnew/update/062711/images/IMG-20110627-00204.jpg
http://www.factoryfive.com/whatsnew/update/062711/images/IMG-20110627-00205.jpg

Da Bunnies have allowed me to post this internal memo:

From "Da Boss Bunny"
To: All Spy Bunnies
RE: Pictures taken by FFR staff and posted to the fff.com forum

"Do not think that those pictures were posted without approvals from "upper management". They put the Subaru steering column and factory power brake booster, along with the left rear suspension, with just a hint of rear mounted engine in the discarded pictures pile....Let it be known, the pictures posted by accident were actually taken out of the discarded pile and slipped into the approved pile by an undercover "Spy Bunny" who has infiltrated the FFR organization at a high level. Details of this project are slowly being leaked out by our spy as dead drops allow. We will update you as they become available."


Bill S.

[PhyrraM]

Interesting find on the roadster body pic, but I don't think that is the 818 chassis under the body, in fact you can see the 818 frame in the foreground with it. I don't think it's another 818 frame as the roll cage pic up points are all a bit different on the one under the roadster body.

I am wondering if they are fitting a new body on Ed's 25 hour car?

-Scott

I hadn't even noticed the red Roadster when I posted. ;)

[prematureapex]

Interesting find on the roadster body pic, but I don't think that is the 818 chassis under the body, in fact you can see the 818 frame in the foreground with it. I don't think it's another 818 frame as the roll cage pic up points are all a bit different on the one under the roadster body.

I am wondering if they are fitting a new body on Ed's 25 hour car?

-Scott

He posted that pic for the bit of 818 showing in it. I hope no one thinks that's an 818 frame under that body. :p

[Someday I Suppose]

Maybe, but there is far more 818 showing in the pics from the open house. :-)


He posted that pic for the bit of 818 showing in it. I hope no one thinks that's an 818 frame under that body. :p