Question about attaching the dash ends

[Wjhutchings]

I'm getting the dash finished and want to ensure it's right before I put the material on the front, but I don't understand how the ends should attach. The book says to "Push the ends of the dash behind the top of the door hinge and screw through the hinge into the dash ends." No pictures are included.
I believe they mean to push the dash ends behind the top of the hinge mounting tab on the frame. But then the only hole to attach the dash is oriented 90 degrees off unless there is a bracket I should use.
Can anyone straighten me out on this? Pictures would be helpful. Thanks.

Walt

[chopthebass]

I have heard people finishing behind the hinge and also in front. I will be doing exactly as you show, and make an 'L' shape bracket for it to fix to. Search out a Video by Mark Reynolds at Breeze. He shows his method.

[Wjhutchings]

I have heard people finishing behind the hinge and also in front. I will be doing exactly as you show, and make an 'L' shape bracket for it to fix to. Search out a Video by Mark Reynolds at Breeze. He shows his method.

Thanks for your help. I found the Technical help on the Breeze site. Too bad FFR manual doesn't give any help in this area. Hope others see your response as well!

Walt

[frankeeski]

Factory Five really doesn't intend for those to be fixed mounted like that on the ends. You'll find out the hard way if you screw them in and don't give yourself adequate room to get in there that the body will have to come off in order to get the dash out. If you pre-bend the end around a coffee can or similar before installation it will hold it's shape and tuck in behind the hinge.

Follow this link to see what may happen if you don't plan ahead to allow access behind the dash.
http://www.ffcars.com/forums/17-factory-five-roadsters/533609-raising-body-enough-remove-dash.html

[Jeff Kleiner]

Question about attaching the dash ends

If you want to do yourself and your painter a favor...do not attach the ends! I confess to being guilty of making the little angle brackets to nicely fasten the ends several years ago on Mk3s but no more. The Mk4 cowl is different and if the dash ends get locked down in the wrong place they push the cowl upwards and make the doors fit even worse than usual. I've gotten customer cars in that the owner had this done this and ended up taking the entire dash loose to get things back in place. I know, it seems like they should be fastened but it really does work best and won't cheese up the body fit if you just leave the ends free and tuck them behind the hinge. Another thing---cut about 1 1/2" or so from the passenger side end so that it doesn't bottom out on the firewall extension and put a weird twist into that side of the dash which can push the cowl.

Cheers,
Jeff

[chopthebass]

Guess it helps having built a few Jeff!
This is the first I heard, and think I will abort the bracket idea now. Somebody really ought to compile a list of top tips because I have learned so many from this forum!

[j.miller]

Like JK I cut 2" off the pass end....I hand roll them and let them hang. I have a coffee can full of brackets I have taken off of cars. You have to be able to move the dash ends once the body is on....on another note....no gauges, switches, lights etc. to the left of the speedo. The dash needs to curve hard right after the speedo. Hey Frank, you say you roll the dash ends around a coffee can....cool, my coffee can is full of brackets. Wanna swap? I need the empty and you can use mine as a percussion Inst. next time we do the 1/2 naked snake dance around the bond fire:rolleyes:...da Bat

[NukeMMC]

you can use mine as a percussion Inst. next time we do the 1/2 naked snake dance around the bond fire:rolleyes:...da Bat

Some things should be left to PM. That imagery will haunt many of us who don't rely on Crown and ginger ale.

[MCathcart]

Originally I hung my dash with 1 center screw before fitting the body. As usual, Jeff K is dead on. The Dash will effect the outside edges of the body at the doors. Secondly, you'll need to Trim the Dash Lip about 1/4" for clearance. When my body was on for fitting, my center screw was 90% hidden. I Knew this would cause problems if I ever needed to remove the dash. I added Three Tabs/L brackets after popping the body off just so I'd have something to hang the dash to After the body was re-mounted.

And if you are going to insulate the rear cockpit panel, It Will Also Effect Where Your Body Sits.


Somebody poke me in the eye with a Sharp Stick!

[j.miller]

AH ! Come ON! I didn't say which half was "naked"......but then, it is a snake dance. So if you do the math, then that means....oh! you're right! Get the sharp stick.

[frankeeski]

Some things should be left to PM. That imagery will haunt many of us who don't rely on Crown and ginger ale.

He!!, I don't even want to read that is a P.M. I think we may need to start looking for assisted living facilities for Miller. I just don't know if we could find a place to keep him????

[Jeff Kleiner]

I think we may need to start looking for assisted living facilities for Miller. I just don't know if we could find a place to keep him????

He told me that he plans to live with you when he retires Frank :p

Jeff

[j.miller]

Yeah Right! Frank is the last person on my "list" of people I would let take care of me.....but he is on the "list"....so are you Capt. O-Ring. Can't think of two better guys to play cars with till it's time to go to that big paint booth in the sky. (it's a down draft with uv heating and waterfall filter .I hear the cars just about paint themselves) and they're gonna have to cause I'm building surfboards and inventing new rum drinks when I buy the farm.....never really wanted a farm...can I trade it for a condo in Bali?

[NukeMMC]

He!!, I don't even want to read that is a P.M. I think we may need to start looking for assisted living facilities for Miller. I just don't know if we could find a place to keep him????

Nurse Ratched is waiting!
47530

[CraigS]

On my old MkII the dash ends are not attached. They have a gentle curve and follow the body edge. They sit on top of the hinge and are captured under the fiberglass.

[chopthebass]

So if the dash ends are left unattached can the dash be removed later on when the body is on?

[Jeff Kleiner]

So if the dash ends are left unattached can the dash be removed later on when the body is on?

You can if you add some tabs to the dash hoop so that the screws wind up ~ 1/2"-to 3/4 below it's bottom edge. IMO 3 screws are sufficient (center and about 6" in from each end) if you use a couple of braces along the bottom edge of the dash.

Jeff

[mcwho]

I was thinking about this [Jeff Kleiner] I do want my dash to be removable without removing the body for upgrades or repair. Some kind of blind flat bolt head on the front of the dash and maybe wingnuts on the rear.

[CraigS]

That could work if you plan on the head of the bolt being visible so it can be pulled out. You want to be able to slide the dash at least somewhat upward behind the edge of the body so the edge of the dash is hidden.

[Wjhutchings]

That could work if you plan on the head of the bolt being visible so it can be pulled out. You want to be able to slide the dash at least somewhat upward behind the edge of the body so the edge of the dash is hidden.

Or, you could checkout the dash that edwardb (Mk4 #7750 build) built that allows for a removeable dash without any bolt heads being visible. I'm doing something similar and it works great.

Walt

[cgundermann]

For the time being and until I am sure of the fit/interface with the body - I used some marine grade Velcro. Some builders have used it permanently (holds strongly). After bending the dash ends, I have a raised set-rivet on the dash ends which helps keep the tension on the bend locked against the frame. It also affords some adjustment as Jeff mentioned...

[Jeff Kleiner]

- I used some marine grade Velcro....

A caution about using Velcro permanently because it will render the dash non-removable once the body is installed. To remove the dash with the body on it first must move down to clear the cowl lip, then come rearward. I think you will find it nearly impossible to disengage to the Velcro by trying to move the two surfaces across one another (i.e. in the case of the dash and hoop across the vertical axis) to to lower the dash.

Jeff

[edwardb]

Or, you could checkout the dash that edwardb (Mk4 #7750 build) built that allows for a removeable dash without any bolt heads being visible. I'm doing something similar and it works great. Walt

Hey, thanks for the shout-out. :D Just to provide a little more info, and save scrolling through the build thread, I used right angle brackets on the back of the dash. Then I riveted weld nuts to the underside of the 3/4 inch tube. I used McMaster #98001A125. I used socket end cap screws through the brackets and into the weld nuts. If you're careful where you place them, can be easily reached from under the dash with an extension. Nothing wrong with screws through the front of the dash. The originals had them and many guys do it. I just prefer to not see them plus eliminate the issue about them being covered by the body. I also prefer this over Velcro, even though I know a lot of guys have been successful with that approach as well. I've done the dash this way twice, and working right now on dash #3 and will be the same. Here is a pic from #7750. These are really solid. Three would likely be fine.

http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab234/edwardb123/Factory%20Five%20Mark%204%20Roadster%20Build/Dash/th_IMG_2280_zps2c09ca7a.jpg (http://s867.photobucket.com/user/edwardb123/media/Factory%20Five%20Mark%204%20Roadster%20Build/Dash/IMG_2280_zps2c09ca7a.jpg.html)

[cgundermann]

Thanks Jeff, I made a carbon fiber dash and I am just using it for mock-up. Going to go with your advice once I am sure of placement.

[rickscobra]

First let me say I am working with the new FFR composite(aka plastic) dash that has tabs at the end of the pre-formed wrap around ends. On the PS, the tab meets up nicely with the firewall extension. Now on the DS, it pretty much ends up aligned with the door hinge. With the tight bend required, the dash seems to get a bit distorted due to the molded in lip on the top of the dash.
Does the, do not attach the ends, principle apply to the new plastic dash? Should the lip on the upper dash be trimmed back at the corner where it rounds the dash tube? This lip seems to be a pain in the butt. If it doesn't go above the tube, you need to make a spacer that will then allow it to lay flat on the tube.
Oh and crap, I have already mounted the hi/lo and turn signal switches to the left of the gauge.
Hope you can digest this info.

[mikeinatlanta]

Mine is similar to edwardb. My ends are solid mounted, but adjustable and removable.
52084
52086
52085

[ThickCobra]

I too made a mistake with the composite dash in that I inserted a hole in the dash for the high beam indicator a bit too high. The dash hoop is directly behind this new 1/2" hole. A friend of mine shared that I could just fill the hole with a fake indicator lense to salvage the dash as a lot of custom cars have fixes like this. I'd prefer to patch the hole but I have no idea how I would do this. Until I find a solution, I am moving forward with drawing up a dash layout with the blank aluminum provided with the anniversary kit. If anyone has come up with patch ideas, please share.

[rmiller64]

I final mounted the windshield last night and nobody mentioned having the drivers side curl left unattached (along with Pass side)so that you can move it to the right so you can get your little hands in to get the nuts on the windshield mount bolts. Once done the curl will snap back into place as pictured in Walt's post picture

[karlos]

For you guys that attach the dash to the hoop via angle brackets: do you use countersunk fasteners through the dash and into the angles? Is there enough thickness to do so? How do you get the dash covering to go over these fasteners without them showing through?

TIA.

[skullandbones]

I would not attach the ends. I have mine so the dash will fold down on hinges. I can do that procedure in about five or so minutes depending how coordinated I am that day. It involves loosening the steering shaft and taking the two fake dash supports (2 nuts). Well it's only partially fake as it does stabilize the dash some. I have to open both doors to make the lowering easier but then it just flops down like a table top. I have had mine down so many times I can't even remember. BTW: doing the modification on the wind shield frames to make them use 3/4 inch fasteners with the frames drilled and tapped is the next great mod in that area. Between the two mods, it has saved me hours of work and no fear or trepidation to work on my car because I have to remove the dash. I just checked my ends both sides and they are pretty stable as is. I can move them with a little push but they don't move on their own.

Good luck,

WEK.

[Jazzman]

Well I don't particularly like my decision, but I have pretty much resigned myself to having to remove the body to get behind the dash. I decided I really like the look of a box between the dash and the tranny tunnel. I will be mounting a stereo and some switches in it. I also am doing a custom wood dash that will flow right down from the dash on to the tranny cover to the back of the cockpit. The dash has to be attached to the box between the dash and tranny. Therefore traditional removed options are out. I was trying to install drop down panels under the dash to make is easier to access, but I realize that It will be too small to do much of anything. So, I guess I will have to remove the body to get to the dash wiring. Hmmm.

[mikeinatlanta]

For you guys that attach the dash to the hoop via angle brackets: do you use countersunk fasteners through the dash and into the angles? Is there enough thickness to do so? How do you get the dash covering to go over these fasteners without them showing through?

TIA.
Look at the second pic I posted. That is with the angle brackets installed. I used 1097 head flush rivets. The dash is plenty thick enough for 1097 heads.
52112

[edwardb]

For you guys that attach the dash to the hoop via angle brackets: do you use countersunk fasteners through the dash and into the angles? Is there enough thickness to do so? How do you get the dash covering to go over these fasteners without them showing through? TIA.

I just used regular flat head machine screws. Either 6-32 or 8-32, I don't remember. They countersink into the aluminum OK. Two in each bracket, total of four brackets. The front the of panel should be smooth before applying any padding or covering and they won't show through. I skimmed over them with some JB Weld and sanded flush just to be sure.