Flynntuna's EZ36 818 build

[flynntuna]

So it begins. Just purchased an incomplete project from TahoeTim, which included the 818s and all his donor parts. The heart of the beast will be an EZ36 that Tim had acquired for the build.
This will be a father son build and each of us will bring our different skills to the project. Im sure we'll be leaning heavily on the vast experience of the members of this forum.

Can't say enough about Tim, a great guy and went out of his way to even deliver the car to my home!
Tim was working with Wayne on putting together the computer and harness for the car, and I will be going to go that route too.

I'm not sure how often I'll post updates, especially in the beginning since I'm still getting my garage in shape (more than 1/2 way done though).

So far what has been done is the fitting of the front firewall and mockup of the front suspension. I still have to go thru all the parts to see what's there and what's not.
No pics yet, they'll be coming

[Sgt.Gator]

Subscribed! I'm very interested in the EZ30 as an NA alternative.

[Canadian818]

While I'm sorry to hear that Tim was unable to finish his build, it's great that it's found a home and new found excitement. I had talked to tim a few times in the past when I too was considering an EZ36. IMO your best off dealing with Wayne for the ECU and wiring. The EZ's have so little aftermarket support that you need a pro who can help you troubleshoot and also with tuning. Good luck, take lots of pictures!

[Flamshackle]

I look forward to the development of your car as I am hoping to go the same direction.

[Rasmus]

Looking forward to the build.

[Frank818]

Cool!!

[AgentH]

A friend of mine is still working on his EZ36 swap. It's going into a TR-42 (exocar). I'm really excited for him... It should be a proper hoon-mobile when he's done!

[Samiam1017]

A friend of mine is still working on his EZ36 swap. It's going into a TR-42 (exocar). I'm really excited for him... It should be a proper hoon-mobile when he's done!

any build threads on this?

[wleehendrick]

So it begins.

Congrats, George! Great to see you going forward with the H6.

[flynntuna]

My build is progressing at a snails pace, seem like "life" is conspiring against me Lol. Anyway some progress has been made. Fitted and drilled belly aluminum, fitted and installed the fire wall and wilwood pedal box.

Today I test fit the engine, there's a couple of sensors that need to be removed before installing the engine because are in a very vulnerable location. Other than that the engine went in fairly easily. This test fit was without the engine mounts bolted to the engine . It appears that their will need to be some modification to the frame mounting location. Looks like the slot for the engine mount on the frame will need to moved back a 1/4-1/2".

One other thing I wanted to see was whether the headers from raptor would fit. They don't fit. :(http://www.raptorsc.com.au/subaru10.html
Looks like those beautiful headers will have to be cut up:(. I'll have to be creative in routing the exhaust because the frame and suspension mounting location is in the way..

[craigfree]

My build is progressing at a snails pace, seem like "life" is conspiring against me Lol. Anyway some progress has been made. Fitted and drilled belly aluminum, fitted and installed the fire wall and wilwood pedal box.

Today I test fit the engine, there's a couple of sensors that need to be removed before installing the engine because are in a very vulnerable location. Other than that the engine went in fairly easily. This test fit was without the engine mounts bolted to the engine . It appears that their will need to be some modification to the frame mounting location. Looks like the slot for the engine mount on the frame will need to moved back a 1/4-1/2".

One other thing I wanted to see was whether the headers from raptor would fit. They don't fit. :(http://www.raptorsc.com.au/subaru10.html
Looks like those beautiful headers will have to be cut up:(. I'll have to be creative in routing the exhaust because the frame and suspension mounting location is in the way..

I broke one of the avls or avcs sensors clean off the second time I installed the ez30r... wish I was thinking ahead like you did.

[DSR-3]

Thanks for posting- good to see you are still on it. Our snails should race!
If you don't already have a better-than-stock engine mount solution, it's not too late to get a set of my adapters made (see separate thread). I just gave the machine shop some slack on making them.
If the EZ36 is like the EZ30R re. the intake cam phaser (though it looks smaller in your pic), you may need to move the engine back closer to an inch. I have my EZ30R in (modified the frame) and it hangs "into" the frame by over 1/2" as I recall.
My engine arrived with a busted AV?S solenoid too... I think they can be repaired.
Taking the intake manifold off makes working the engine in easier.

[craigfree]

Mine came missing one of the avls solenoids, Dallas JDM started it should have been missing both since they aren't compatible with the us ecus... sure whatever they didn't want to replace it, oh well.

I've never tried installing it with the intake manifold on, other than where I'm hoisting it from, I don't foresee it as making it much worse.

[flynntuna]

The photo below shows the motor mounts that I have. They mount to the engine in three places. What did you do to move the mounts? Did you cut a new slot in the frame? Or did you cut slots perpendicular to the one that's there?

I'm pretty sure in Wayne's thread he mentioned moving the mount location by a 1/4" I'll have to look through his thread again.

If your keeping yours NA how are you routing the exhaust? Moving the engine back will leave a little room between the frame and the heads. One possible route would be route the headers buy the side of the motor mounts keeping it tight to the heads and then over the axles. Under the frame is unacceptable, no ground clearance for that. Through the motor mount mounting bracket may be an option if notching and reinforcing the frame was something I was willing to do. That would run the exhaust under the axles and right up against the tranny. Or just run straight pipes out the side. Lol anyway just thinking out loud and rambling, any ideas will be appreciated.

[Hobby Racer]

...Or just run straight pipes out the side.

I am planning to do just that. Exit the exhaust in front of the rear tires, poking through the side sails as low as possible. ;)

[flynntuna]

That would be the easiest, but I'm afraid my neighbors would show up with pitchforks. :rolleyes:

[craigfree]

It's not easy at all. My learning is that the 6 is better off turboed so you give less about the routing.
http://i1066.photobucket.com/albums/u420/CraigFree/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20160305_172837806_zpsk0m8nwyu.jpg (http://s1066.photobucket.com/user/CraigFree/media/Mobile%20Uploads/IMG_20160305_172837806_zpsk0m8nwyu.jpg.html)

[flynntuna]

Ok, got the motor punts mounted to the engine and trans. and the mounts need to definitely be moved back at least an inch.
The right side of the timing cover is about 1 1/2" longer than the left and hits the frame before the mount stud reaches the frame slot :( though axles are not centered hopefully they are ok since the transmission mounts fit but are at the end of the slot. They probably should be expanded since the right side of the engine is with in 1/4" from the frame.
I could use some advice, particularly on how close the timing cover can be to the frame and how far the axles can be moved.

[flynntuna]

Well... I've got the engine in. I cut new slots in the frame mounting location 1 1/4" back from the stock location and one of the transmission slots 1/4". The engine slipped in easily and is in its new home for now. With this mod the engine sits 3/8" from the frame and hopefully this will be far enough so as not to cause a problem. I do however have to either shim the engine up 1/8-1/4" or make a small notch in the frame because the front motor mount/anti pitch mount just barely touches the frame.

Can anyone tell me how much if any the engine mounts can be shimmed?

I could just notch the corner of the frame were the front motor mount touches the frame since I'll have to weld brackets for it anyway, but if I can avoid that with 1/8" shims I'd rather do that.

[Hobby Racer]

With the engine setting on the mounts now, does any part of the oil pan hang below the frame? To be clear, you are using the two motor mounts in the normal position for the EJ motors plus the one on the front of the case correct?

I am planning out my EZ36 install and your information is very helpful. ;)

[flynntuna]

As it sits now without shimming , it looks to set about 1/2" below the frame.

[flynntuna]

The motor mounts mount to the engine in three places.
Sorry for the lousy pics:eek:

[craigfree]

I spoke to Wayne, he said the engine torques vertical and aft so fire wall clearance shrinking is only thermal expansion.

[UnhipPopano]

In looking at the forward Mount, it looks like it is stiffest when the engine moves up, and then forwards and back. If you are using stiffer supports, do you need the front mount?

[flynntuna]

Thanks for that observation, with most of the shock absorbing material on the top of the mount it does make sense that it's function is to keep the engine from rocking up.

As to weather to keep it or not, I'm more inclined to keep it because of some of the videos posted here on this forum showing how much the engines rock and I'm not that comfortable with taking that chance of the engine bouncing off the frame.

[Hindsight]

I'm not an expert with this, and it looks like a very cool project, but I see no issue with shimming the engine up other than dealing with alignment issues of the driveshafts. I highly doubt 1/4" to 1/2" of shimming would have any impact on driveshaft angle though. So long as everything fits in the frame, it should be fine. That's my two cents anyway.

[flynntuna]

One concern with shimming it up is that it'll leave very few threads on the motor mount bolts. The only way I can see around that is that the shim be bolted to the mount and the shims have bolts attached so that it can be bolted to the frame.
I hope that makes sense. :p
Notching the 4" of the corner edge of the frame and reinforcing by welding the bracket for the front motor mount to the frame may be the easiest route. :confused:

Lots more head scratching to do. :D

[craigfree]

What motor mounts do you have? I'm using Cusco I believed and there is enough threads for a half inch shim.

[flynntuna]

I believe they are the stock ones for the ez36. They came with the package deal when I bought the kit from TahoeTim. I'll check how much leeway there is when I get home.

[flynntuna]

So I checked the amount of thread left after snugging the motor mount bolts. Not much available, there's only 3/8" past the bolt. But while under there it occurred to me that if I use longer bolts to mount the motor mount to the engine that I could use washers between the engine and motor mounts say 1/8" worth and 1/8" shim between the motor mounts and frame.
Or even making a 1/4"-1/2" spacer to go between the motor mounts and engine and using longer bolts.

Am I asking for trouble getting to 1/4" or so this way?

[Hindsight]

Shouldn't matter which side the shims go - except for bolt or stud length. I see no reason not to put ALL shim you need between the engine and the mount, so long as it doesn't use studs on that side and you can simply use longer bolts.

[flynntuna]

Thanks , they are all bolts. I'll get longer bolts and make spacers to go between the engine and mounts.
Now to decide how thick the spacer should be.

[flynntuna]

Not much to update, I've been painting parts and putting in new wheel bearings , my son has borrowed the engine crane so no progress on the engine install. I have been looking and thinking about the mods that will need to be made to the engine mount bracket. The front outside corner of the engine frame mount looks like it'll need to be cut to make room for the headers. I'm wondering a gusset will be needed to reinforce the structure of the bracket?

[JB91710]

I just found out the electronics to run my engines with Motec is going to cost OVER $10,000. Anybody want to buy a cool project or two EZ30 engines?

[Toysrus]

Why not go with haltech? They already have done ez motors avcs and all.

[Toysrus]

Basic kit is around $1800 I believe for drive by wire. Full dual wide band , sequential fire with racepak dash display around $3500 depending where you buy it. It Does auto tune even

[Toysrus]

Is it possible to mount the front engine mount upside down?

[flynntuna]

Is it possible to mount the front engine mount upside down?

You get the same interference with a frame crossbar right side up or upside down. When upside down it is close to the balancer and you'd still need to either mod the motor mount bracket to lower the engine 1/4" or
cut the upper crossbar.

My friend suggested to make a bracket to offset the mounting holes. Bolt it to the engine then the front mount to it. This way I could use the stock front mount bracket.

I'm thinking of either using spacers 1/4"-1/2" it raise the engine at the motor mounts, or redo the motor mount frame bracket by the same 1/4"-1/2". Either way I'd have to make a new front motor mount bracket and ditch the stock one.

[longislandwrx]

can you space it off the block an inch and a half or so, mount it backwards to the block and run the other frame piece off the face of the square tube rather than the top?

looks like it would work if you redrilled some holes in the piece with the ears, and trimmed a little off.

[flynntuna]

Thanks for your input, it got me thinking in a different way. Spacing it off an inch or so and flipping it won't work. If I used a piece of angle and bolt it to the engine then bolt the mount to the angle effectively using the mount horizontal instead of vertical it might work. I'll have to play with it to see for sure.

I've got to make sure I have space for the two into one coolant line and alternator drive belt that will occupy the same space.

[flynntuna]

After playing with it a while, having the mount horizontal will work, but at a price. Having it horizontal will have it intrude past the frame into the fuel tank area by 1-2" :( I'm planning on getting the Boyd tank anyway but the thought of loosing a couple inches in the cockpit that would have been gained by using the Boyd tank doesn't sit well with me. Looks like I'll be adding 1/4" spacer between the engine and motor mounts, weld a bracket to the frames lower crossbar to mount the front motor mount and call it done. Unless there's a better way. Lol

[Toysrus]

Seems to me offsetting it up and using the stock mount would be the way to go. Or upside down and offset it down with stock bracket on bottom of top horizontal frame rail. You can grind a bit off the mount ears to clear bolts or you could notch the adapter and mount the ears behind it. You could even add threads to the mount holes and not need nuts. Though loctite would be a good idea. Or counter sink machine screws... a flat adapter is alot easier to make than a bracket.

[craigfree]

Why do you need a third front mount? Ditch the soft useless stock mounts and modify aftermarket ej mounts so you only need the saddle engine mounts and the rear transmission.

[flynntuna]

Its not so much a motor mount as it is a pitch stop mount. Even though I moved the engine back 1", the passenger side cam cover is very close to the frame. Any pitching of the engine could end up banging the engine against the frame.:p I want to insure that any "spirited" driving won't crack the cover.

[Toysrus]

You might want to preload it so it can't rock forward. Jack the front of the motor up with the other mounts installed and see where that puts the mount. It may be enough to get it lined up without an adapter. There is enough room on those mount tabs to drill new holes. Should be able to raise the front of the motor 1/2 an inch drill new holes and when installed the mount rubber should compress enough to bring the motor back to where it started.

[Toysrus]

Or unbolt the saddle mounts install the front mount and bracket and see where that puts it. Might just be a order of install issue.

[Toysrus]

And if that doesn't quite get you there couldn't you slot or redrill the stock bracket to mount holes to bring it down a bit more? But I'm thinking if you do the front mount first you will be able to get the saddle mounts back down by tightening their mount bolts.

[Samiam1017]

any updates? what effect do you think moving the trans back 1in will have on the cv angles? why not change the support tubes on the chassis so the cover isnt near the tubes? what are your thoughts on solid mounts do you think the engine and trans could handle the stresses or that there might be distortion that transfers to the internals?
thanks sam

[flynntuna]

No updates worth reporting. The past few months at work have been kicking my a$$. Moving the trans back an inch shouldn't have any bad effects on the axles, i think frank818's axles are even further back( probably at the limit possible) and doesn't seem to have any issues.
Frame mods for such a small amount of space needed, moving suspension mounts ect. would be just more than I was willing and able to do.
The next three months is the slow time at work and I should be able to spend more time in the garage.

[craigfree]

I'll share a file with you, hope it gives you motivation.

[flynntuna]

Saw the video, it was awesome.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bww4F1fwPH32ekJTMlotSlVVWmM/view

[craigfree]

I hope it gives you some motivation, I've seemingly lost all of mine...

The h6 sound is worth it. The naturally aspirated setup really simplified everything but the exhaust.

Good luck.

[STiPWRD]

Saw the video, it was awesome.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0Bww4F1fwPH32ekJTMlotSlVVWmM/view
Whoa, that sounds great, keep it coming!

[Frank818]

I like it too!

Remind me the challenges of this build, if any?

[flynntuna]

I like it too!

Remind me the challenges of this build, if any?

Minor challenges compared to your build, mounting the engine one inch back and a quarter inch higher than stock, and custom headers. And a aftermarket ECU .