Buying someone elses project

[Slider]

I recently came across a 8 year old Mark II sitting in someones garage. Went and checked it out today and other than being quite obvious that it's been sitting for 3-4 years (dust, stuff piled on, etc), it actually looks to be in pretty nice shape. He used a 88 Mustang 5.0l and had it rebuilt, New Tremec 3650, and a lincoln IRS which apparently was also rebuilt. Powder coated frame, and lots of other goodies. Wiring isn't done, but harness is there and looks to be in good shape. Body work is done, and decently, but only in primer at the moment. I built my own Mark IV a couple of years ago, but have been itching to do another. Here's the question... What range is a fair offer to make? Any thoughts? I can't start the engine, but can see the receipts of where it was rebuilt along with a lot of other receipts. I don't want to insult him, but also want to get a good deal, otherwise it's not worth it to me. My guess is that he's got about $15 - 20k in it (not counting labor). Would $15k be too little, too much, or what do you think? I know that this is hard without seeing it, but hopefully someone can give me an estimate of what other unfinished 7-8 year old projects like this are being resold for. He's moving and doesn't have much interest in moving it with him, so somewhat motivated. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

[mrmustang]

I recently came across a 8 year old Mark II sitting in someones garage. Went and checked it out today and other than being quite obvious that it's been sitting for 3-4 years (dust, stuff piled on, etc), it actually looks to be in pretty nice shape. He used a 88 Mustang 5.0l and had it rebuilt, New Tremec 3650, and a lincoln IRS which apparently was also rebuilt. Powder coated frame, and lots of other goodies. Wiring isn't done, but harness is there and looks to be in good shape. Body work is done, and decently, but only in primer at the moment. I built my own Mark IV a couple of years ago, but have been itching to do another. Here's the question... What range is a fair offer to make? Any thoughts? I can't start the engine, but can see the receipts of where it was rebuilt along with a lot of other receipts. I don't want to insult him, but also want to get a good deal, otherwise it's not worth it to me. My guess is that he's got about $15 - 20k in it (not counting labor). Would $15k be too little, too much, or what do you think? I know that this is hard without seeing it, but hopefully someone can give me an estimate of what other unfinished 7-8 year old projects like this are being resold for. He's moving and doesn't have much interest in moving it with him, so somewhat motivated. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

You
$10,000-$12,000

Why, because everything needs to be taken apart and redone.

Me:
$8,500-$11,000

Why, because everything needs to be taken apart and redone.

[David Hodgkins]

That kit is more like 10+ years old. MKIII's started in '05 if my memory serves. My MKIII was manufactured in early '06.

Not sure why 2 sets of prices are listed above but if it's been sitting that long who knows what needs to be done. I'd tear the motor down, for example. So it's not even worth the sum of it's parts (watch out for those shocks for example, they might be recalled Bilsteins) and I would calmly state that to the owner. It's and IRS car, so that's worth a small bump.

I guess I'd go in around 10K-11K or so I'm guessing, not having seen it.

Good luck!

:)

PS any pics? FFR number?

[edwardb]

Having bought two already started Roadsters -- both newer than this one -- and knowing what I paid for them, I agree your offer should be in the 10-12K range. No more. What he has in it and his labor are unfortunately not too important any more. I'm assuming he's the original purchaser and has the mfg certificate of origin in his name? Be very careful here. That's what I've done twice, and the last time will be my last. At least in the state of Michigan, this is a very difficult transaction. I can't speak for other states. But be certain that you really can successfully license and title in your state with a certificate of origin where you aren't named. I know a lot of already started builds trade hands like this, and I don't see this problem referenced much. So maybe it is only a Michigan thing. But I'm betting it's not. When asked for an explanation about why so hard, I was told there has been a lot of fraud and "everyone" is cracking down. Note I had a fully executed bill of sale, copies of cancelled checks, etc. There was no question it was a legitimate sale, but they just couldn't get past my name not being on the certificate of origin. The only solution I was given was to treat the transaction as a "lost title" and I had to buy a 2-year surety bond for twice the purchased value. It was an expensive bump, but I had no choice.

[Jeff Kleiner]

10K would be absolute top dollar. I got into one of these a few years ago; it arrived as a steering and stopping roller but as I started digging a little deeper (very little) it was clear that nothing could be trusted and I wound up stripping it to the bare chassis for a complete "do over". In the end that was OK because the purchaser bought it right and the additional labor wasn't a deal breaker. When you make an offer just assume that you will need to do the same.

Jeff

[Scud67]

I have one of the last MKII's - it was purchased in a deal where 2 MKII's and a n MKIII were bought from FFR at the same time - in 2004. They discounted the MKII's because they were the last ones before the MKIII's came out, so it is at least that old... When I got the kit it was partially built, but I went through everything on the car from page 1 of the manual and checked all that was already built. Let's just say I am glad I did....

[michael everson]

I don't even get interested until they are half price. I have bought a lot of them at half price. Some way less.
Mike

[skullandbones]

It's good the wiring is not done. I would not give any value for the engine. The new trans and IRS you could calculate. Applying the "half price" formula on the goodies you say are with it and half price for the kit should come to about what others have suggested. I would be comfortable at about 9 or 10K. If you could examine the build such as the way the brake lines and other skill type required tasks are done, you might get a better feel for the existing condition. If he is not willing to uncover and let you examine it, I would walk away. Most people are proud of their work on these cars. If he isn't, that is a red flag for sure. Also, asking questions like what did you use to install the aluminum panels (silicone) or other specific build questions. You've built one so you know the questions that will reveal the person in the know or a BSer. It doesn't sound like a killer deal but maybe it will fit your needs.

Good luck,

WEK.

[Jeff Kleiner]

...If you could examine the build such as the way the brake lines and other skill type required tasks are done, you might get a better feel for the existing condition....

Yeah, and when you find something that looks like this (from the one that I mentioned in post #5) it pretty much tells ya' everything you need to know---

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj43/jkleiner/Aaron5171/100_3378.jpg

The good news was that when I started drilling out rivets to remove the panels it literally just fell apart because there wasn't a drop of silicone or other adhesive used anywhere :rolleyes:

Cheers,
Jeff

[Slider]

Wow! You've all given me plenty to think about. And really good points. I may be sufficiently scared to just pass on this.

[David Hodgkins]

Wow Jeff, that's amazing. SCARY, but amazing.
:confused:

[Jeff Kleiner]

Wow Jeff, that's amazing. SCARY, but amazing.
:confused:

More scary is the fact that the original owner is a "pro builder" who has done cars for others :rolleyes: This Mk3 was going to be his personal car.

Jeff

[Gumball]

More scary is the fact that the original owner is a "pro builder" who has done cars for others :rolleyes: This Mk3 was going to be his personal car.

Jeff

Well, as the old saying goes, "the cobbler's kids have no shoes."

[2bking]

Yeah, and when you find something that looks like this (from the one that I mentioned in post #5) it pretty much tells ya' everything you need to know---

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj43/jkleiner/Aaron5171/100_3378.jpg

The good news was that when I started drilling out rivets to remove the panels it literally just fell apart because there wasn't a drop of silicone or other adhesive used anywhere :rolleyes:

Cheers,
Jeff

I'm sure he planned to put the diff cover on before it was driven:)