20th Anniversary MK4 Build Thread - #10 of 20 - #8697

[RRussellTx]

Well, I ordered my kit online on Saturday June 18th, 2015 (Best Fathers Day gift ever!) and it was finally delivered by Jim at Stewart around 3:30pm on Friday September 18th just as the kids were getting off the school buses. The kit was completed by FFR on August 22nd so it was within my expectations for the Stewart delivery times based on other experiences I have read on these forums. Now that I have everything here and I have locked in on some key aspects of my build, I thought it was high time I created my Build Thread - so here it goes.


First, a little about the planned build. I really liked the idea of having 427 cubes but I did not think there was enough room for the big block so I locked in on a stroked 351w with a TKO-600 early in the process. I also really liked the idea of having the Ford Racing aluminum block but the incremental cost and the complete lack of practicality left me torn. I also struggled with Carb vs EFI and then what kind of EFI... I struggled with the decision to build the engine myself or have it built by one of the forum vendors. My old man and his crew threatened to pull my 'Man Card' if I let someone else build it so there was no pressure in that decision.

Here is a pic of the crew from the early 70's on one of our weekend motorcycle/camping trips - (I'm the twerp on my great-uncles knee in the red Toughskins).

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=45587&d=1442799960

They were pretty serious gear heads when the Cobra was dominating the race circuits so they are my first line of information and my sounding board for ideas I read on the forums. All that to say that I have struggled on the details of the engine but I have landed in a place that I'm comfortable with. The crew does a lot more talking than working these days so I went with what I consider the 'practical' route and ordered a Forte 427 DART SBF with a Holley Terminator EFI. I think with a 20th Anniversary Mk4 in my garage, my 'Man Card' is safe.

Some of the build plan is still up in the air but I'll update this post whenever I make a decision on something new (or I read it on Edwardb's build log since i'm shamelessly following his lead):

Build List:
20th Anniversary Kit - http://www.factoryfive.com/whats-new/day-19-of-20-20th-anniversary-mk4-roadster-revealed/
Passenger Roll Bars
Wind Wings
Body Cut-outs
Forte DART 427w
Forte TKO-600 with .64 OD
Forte Holley Terminator EFI
Forte Hydraulic Clutch
Forte Seat Heaters
Howe Racing Ball Joints - Edwardb inspired
Moog Tie-Rod ends - Edwardb inspired
Breeze Power Steering Rack

Need to figure out or buy:
Headers
All the bling under the hood
Tires
Paint (final color and whether to do it myself or pay a professional)
Security and maybe electronic start features.
Visors
I'll add to this list as well...

I'll post more details over the next few days until I get caught up.

[BobCarter]

Welcome to the 20th Anniv. Club! I too am a first time builder and have found Edwardp's experience very valuable. If you have some folks with experience near by beleive me they will come in handy. Mounting the center section is a perfect example of having the right tools and the right experience to draw upon. Getting allll the parts is a challenge. Eventually I think they will arrive but it demands working a plan that is flexible. Good luck! Have fun! This will be a memory builder for all of us.

[edwardb]

Congratulations on your kit delivery! I was 95% sure of doing a 427 SBF build with mine before I veered off and went Coyote. Will be very interested to follow your build. The plan sounds great. That DART setup should be excellent. I'm assuming Forte is going to get it completely assembled and dyno'd for you. That takes a lot of drama out of the whole engine thing. Just be patient with the whole process, and enjoy the build. The end result is fantastic. But getting there is too.

[6t8dart]

Welcome to the TX roadster build club! I just started working on mine a month ago. Mine isn't a 20th Aniv edition, but my whole budget was less than that kit cost, so I'm slumming it with a donor build.

[ThickCobra]

Welcome to the 20th A club. I am #4 of 20 and also a first time builder. My family is as excited as I am. As it turns out, I am also going with the Dart 427 from Mike Forte. I know the drama surrounding his new dyno...finally up and running. It sounds like Mike has put up with a lot from the dyno supplier. Your engine may in fact be sitting next to mine. I'm not in a hurry to get it as I am quite a ways from needing it. Tko 600, hydraulic clutch and PS from Forte. I am coming to appreciate the forum. Hard to imagine building the Cobra without support.

Congratulations.

[RRussellTx]

Thanks for the warm welcome. I have spent my spare time in the garage instead of on the computer but I really need to get caught up on this log or I never will.

First, I purchased the differential and knuckles/hubs online from different ebay suppliers right after I bought the kit. I wanted the 3.31 to go with the high torque 427 and TKO-600. I bought the steel differential because FF indicated that it was supported and went with the manual transmission. The ebay seller did not indicate if it was manual or automatic.

The seller shipped the differential with the bolts partially threaded in the aluminum rear cover which damaged the threads during shipping. The seller bought me a new rear cover and took care of the issue. While I was replacing the cover I got to see inside. Here are some pics of the differential:

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71356&d=1501437599

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71364&d=1501438943

This is what is behind the vent on the rear cover - it has a small flat cover the attaches with one small screw.

[http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71370&d=1501441857

I also clean up the knuckles nice and clean like Edwardb - it was not too hard and they turned out pretty nice.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71369&d=1501441843
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71368&d=1501441831

My current problem with the differential is that the driveshaft adapter does not fit properly. The adapter is slightly too large to fit in the indentation of the differential flange. I will follow up with factory five to find out if they have seen this before. My fear is that there are more than one kind of differential flange and they may need different kinds of adapters. They list different kinds in the instructions (clear zinc for automatics and yellow coated zinc for manual) but mine is all black. I'm sure it will get taken care of but worst case I'll be reaching out to Denny's driveshaft to see if they can help.

[RRussellTx]

While waiting for the kit, I ordered several parts and some new toys to help with the build:

Hand rivet gun, pneumatic rivet gun and rivet nut gun:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71372&d=1501442535

And my new cleco collection:

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71371&d=1501442506

I stocked the keezer and the fridge for the 'free labor' I expect to come and help:

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71374&d=1501442752

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71373&d=1501442741

And then I got the garage all ready to receive the kit:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71377&d=1501442912


After that, I just had to wait for the Stewart truck to arrive with my kit:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71376&d=1501442898

He showed up just in time for the girls to help with the unloading process after they got home from school:

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71375&d=1501442889

And in short order is was tucked away in the garage!

[RRussellTx]

I spent the rest of the evening unpacking boxes and checking packing lists. It looked ok at first but then little things started to look off (like I received 6 springs but only 2 of the 20th anniversary Koni's instead of 4 but I received 2 of the regular front Koni shocks). Nothing was damaged but I could tell I needed to spend a great deal more time going through the inventory process so I shut that down and started the process to get the body off so I could take pictures of everything and check everything out and get that out of the way. I already had the body bucks cutout and the materials on hand but I wanted to get the kit before I set the height on everything. Within a few hours I had the body buck built and the body off:

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71379&d=1501443067

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71378&d=1501443055

After that, I spent all day Sunday going through the manual and basically pre-assembling everything to make sure I understood the build and that I have the right parts. I figured out that I don't have the IRS LCA hardware and that I really don't like the IRS differential bushings. They don't seem like they will last very long and I really don't look forward to removing that differential after it is installed. I'll be looking for alternatives there...


I figure it will take a week or two to get through this inventory and get everything tagged and stored with a list of items that I want to replace. Until then, I'm just going to lay low and take it slow so I don't miss something or forget where everything goes. More than one person has said to be patient and I understand why now that the kit is here.

I'll post again when the inventory is complete.

[edwardb]

Great update and progress! Couple comments. The Ford literature specifically states that aluminum center sections are on automatic cars, and cast iron on manual cars. So your center section is from a manual, same as mine. That driveshaft adapter is an expensive part (>$100) so I would expect (demand) FF to resolve it. The one I received, also black, fit my iron case center section perfectly. I just did a little Googling. What Ford has going there is call a Guibo Joint (also sometimes spelled Giubo) which they designed into this setup. It's some kind of rubber donut to take up shock and smooth out the drivetrain. Common on European cars, apparently not as common on U.S. cars. Also see that a 2015 Mustang performance upgrade is to replace this part with a solid adapter and treat it like a traditional pinion flange. So I expect FF is getting them from somewhere. The Driveshaft Shop is one company that talks about this.

I'm surprised about your comments regarding the IRS differential bushings. I have mine completely installed, as I'm sure you saw in my build thread. With the poly bushings, metal sleeves, and everything installed and torqued down, that thing isn't going anywhere. It's extremely rigid. FWIW, I have the Mustang frame for the complete IRS, which has the Ford version of the mountings. They are similar if not slightly less rigid. Granted, one of the performance upgrade in high horsepower Mustangs is to replace those mounts with solids. But that's a much heavier car and way beyond stock power. Personally, I don't think there's anything to worry about.

The pictures of the cover removed from the center section are interesting. Looks similar to the older style 8.8 inside. Would be an interesting side-by-side since supposedly the new one is larger and beefier. The vent tube baffling is also interesting. I haven't seen this addressed in any instructions. Any thoughts about what you're going to do? Mustangs have a pretty long hose that attaches to the nipple and goes who knows where. I'm not sure that's needed here, but seems like it should have something.

One other real minor point. I assume you have your elevated body buck high enough to clear the firewall and dash. But it looks close. Be careful if/when you have the steering wheel installed. It stands higher than the firewall or dash, and it's easy to run into it and (just maybe) scratch it up a bit. One of those "ask me how I know" statements. :p

[RRussellTx]

Great update and progress! :p

Thanks!


What Ford has going there is call a Guibo Joint (also sometimes spelled Giubo) which they designed into this setup. :p

I'm all too familiar with the guibo joint, I put about 200,000 on a 94 325is and replaced this part multiple times' along with other failed suspension parts. I finally put race suspension parts with the urethane bushings and did not need to replace anything until I finally sold it. Granted most of the miles were put on before I swaped the suspension parts but they seemed to withstand the abuse better.


I'm surprised about your comments regarding the IRS differential bushings. I have mine completely installed, as I'm sure you saw in my build thread. With the poly bushings, metal sleeves, and everything installed and torqued down, that thing isn't going anywhere. It's extremely rigid.:p

It may seem rigid now but I watched too many IRS Mustang YouTube videos about the wheel hop issues they have under full load. With well over 400hp and over 24 inches of rubber on the ground I think it will be much less rigid. I am very concerned about the wheel hop issue primarily because of the amount of effort to rectify it down the road. To your point - it's probably fine but if it's not then we have to pull that bad boy out or live with it until it wears out and then pull it out.

Maybe one of the forum vendors can figure out how to source some solid bushings for us. The guys that are going to put these cars on the track will want them for sure.



The vent tube baffling is also interesting. I haven't seen this addressed in any instructions. Any thoughts about what you're going to do? Mustangs have a pretty long hose that attaches to the nipple and goes who knows where. I'm not sure that's needed here, but seems like it should have something.:p

I actually have that part in hand. It has a rubber 90 degree tube at the differential end and what appears to be some kind of a filter/one way valve at the other end with hard plastic tubing in between with various mounts and guards along the way. I plan on cutting out the middle and replacing the center with tubing that will allow me to route it somewhere out of the way under the car. It was about a $12 part so it's a cheap experiment.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71380&d=1501443176



I assume you have your elevated body buck high enough to clear the firewall and dash. But it looks close. Be careful if/when you have the steering wheel installed. It stands higher than the firewall or dash, and it's easy to run into it and (just maybe) scratch it up a bit. One of those "ask me how I know" statements. :p

Thanks for the heads up and I'll watch that closely. I have a few inches between the firewall and the body buck but I wanted it high enough to clear the car but low enough to go through the door and its a tight squeeze. I can make up a little room if/when I build the chassis dolly but for now it works fine.

[ThickCobra]

Great update and pics. I'll be looking at the adapter today as I also have the 3.31 center section which is cast iron. I'll also be interested to see whether the vent needs to be addressed. BTW, nice to have a shop dedicated to the build and have to say, luv the keezer.
:cool:

[ThickCobra]

Great update and pics. I'll be looking at the adapter today as I also have the 3.31 center section which is cast iron. I'll also be interested to see whether the vent needs to be addressed. BTW, nice to have a shop dedicated to the build and have to say, luv the keezer.
:cool:

[chopthebass]

Couldn't you get your garage floor a little cleaner!

[jayguy]

Awesome setup you have, and looks like it's going to be a great build! Shiner Bock! Great beer! I'm just starting to brew at home, and I think that's going to be a recipe I'll try to find/perfect. It's a great beer.

Glad you guys are blazing the trail with the new IRS. It's still a couple years away (how many years have I been saying that?) but I want to do the '33 with the IRS, and by the time I'm ready, you guys will have ironed out all of the wrinkles. Thanks!


Jay

[ThickCobra]

RRussellTx,

Can I ask how you cleaned up the hubs. Both yours and Edwardb's look fantastic.

[RRussellTx]

ChopTheBass - did I miss a spot?


JayGuy

Awesome setup you have, and looks like it's going to be a great build! Shiner Bock! Great beer! I'm just starting to brew at home, and I think that's going to be a recipe I'll try to find/perfect. It's a great beer.

Thanks! I generally like to have a couple of home brew kegs in the keezer but I just have not made the time lately. I like the Caribou Slobber (medium) and the Big Honkin Stout (dark) extract recipes from Northern Brewer. There is a homebrew store in town where I can pick up the ingredients so I don't actually order from there though.

[RRussellTx]

Can I ask how you cleaned up the hubs. Both yours and Edwardb's look fantastic.

I basically followed Edwardb's instructions. For the knuckles, I used a little file kit from the local big box and a couple of FINE wire brushes for the drill motor. I think Edwardb also used some Emory cloth but his are a little nicer than mine. For the hubs I just cleaned them up with the same wire wheel and put a coat or two of the black POR15. Not hard at all, just took a few hours on a lazy Sunday afternoon.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71381&d=1501443257

[BobCarter]

Today I checked the fit off the adapter I received with my kit. I too have a adapter (Black) that does not fit. Its outside diameter is greater than the ID of the center section yoke. To Edwardp's comment- My center section is cast iron, wonder why my black adapter doesn't fit my cast iron center section? Called Vinny at FFR, he's sending me the "right one". Anxious to see what the "right one" will be.


[QUOTE=edwardb;212405]Great update and progress! Couple comments. The Ford literature specifically states that aluminum center sections are on automatic cars, and cast iron on manual cars. So your center section is from a manual, same as mine. That driveshaft adapter is an expensive part (>$100) so I would expect (demand) FF to resolve it. The one I received, also black, fit my iron case center section perfectly. I just did a little Googling. What Ford has going there is call a Guibo Joint (also sometimes spelled Giubo) which they designed into this setup. It's some kind of rubber donut to take up shock and smooth out the drivetrain. Common on European cars, apparently not as common on U.S. cars. Also see that a 2015 Mustang performance upgrade is to replace this part with a solid adapter and treat it like a traditional pinion flange. So I expect FF is getting them from somewhere. The Driveshaft Shop is one company that talks about this.

[CraigS]

RRussel, be sure to stay on FFR about those Konis. When Edward posted about them I did a quick google. WOW, the DA Konis are approximately $950 each.

[ThickCobra]

I basically followed Edwardb's instructions. For the knuckles, I used a little file kit from the local big box and a couple of FINE wire brushes for the drill motor. I think Edwardb also used some Emory cloth but his are a little nicer than mine. For the hubs I just cleaned them up with the same wire wheel and put a coat or two of the black POR15. Not hard at all, just took a few hours on a lazy Sunday afternoon.
http://i827.photobucket.com/albums/zz197/rrusselltx/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-09/869E99F2-377F-4766-A973-13996BE4C8E8_zpsjzflp3x7.jpg (http://s827.photobucket.com/user/rrusselltx/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-09/869E99F2-377F-4766-A973-13996BE4C8E8_zpsjzflp3x7.jpg.html)

Thanks, appreciated.

[ThickCobra]

I have a few questions pertaining to the build, which may be of interest to others.

1. Should there be no rivets drilled thru the main frame members...the large tubes?
2. Should there be no rivets run thru the 11" x 13" plates beneath the ds and ps floor pans? If you do, the rivet will be exposed to the elements. It appears these plates replaced 3/4" cross members.
3. Should the frame be level? I noticed that, although my jack stands were all set on the same notch, and the frame appeared level, it was not. And as we build and torque bolts, etc.,is being level important. I chose to level mine with shims.

Input?

[edwardb]

My input FWIW:

1. I put a row of rivets for the big floor pieces into the main 4 inch chassis tubes. That's the only piece I recall over the main tube. Just make sure to hit the high point down the center so the pieces stay flat. I generally use the FF recommended spacing: Every 3 inches into steel frame members. Every 2 inches for panel-to-panel.

2. Go ahead and put some beads of adhesive on it when installing the panels, but no reason to put rivets into that piece. There are plenty of other frame members around for rivets. That plate is mainly intended for your seat bolts. Also if you use the anti-submarine belt in the center/front of the Simpson harness (you should!) it will bolt into the front of that plate.

3. Doesn't matter. You won't be changing the shape of the frame with the assembly. My garage slopes a bit toward the door (like it's supposed to) and also a bit toward the sides. Nothing to worry about.

[ThickCobra]

Thanks for the quick reply and input. As for item #3, I should have been clearer. My frame sits perpendicular to the main door. That is, sideways. And yes, the floor appropriately slopes toward the main door. There must be some flex to the frame because when I placed a level on the front radiator 3/4" tube is showed one side off level. While a level placed on the back trunk area, in several places, showed it level. Shimming the front leveled everything out and its all good. May not make sense but, thats what I found.

[edwardb]

Thanks for the quick reply and input. As for item #3, I should have been clearer. My frame sits perpendicular to the main door. That is, sideways. And yes, the floor appropriately slopes toward the main door. There must be some flex to the frame because when I placed a level on the front radiator 3/4" tube is showed one side off level. While a level placed on the back trunk area, in several places, showed it level. Shimming the front leveled everything out and its all good. May not make sense but, thats what I found.

I guarantee there is no flex in the frame. Rule that out. But I'm not going to say every part is exactly level to each other. I assume the radiator tube you're talking about is the one just in front of the hood hinges with the two short pieces of 3/4 inch tube the radiator attaches to. Take a look and I'll bet you'll find that part isn't level to the rest of the chassis. Every chassis I've had that piece was welded slightly low on the PS, including my new 20th Anniversary chassis. Just looked. It doesn't hurt anything.

[RRussellTx]

Well, I don't have much of an update but it's been a few weeks since I recorded my build progress so here is the latest.

I went through most of the build manual along with the packing lists and compared them to the parts I received. I pre-assembled as much as I could and that helped me account for everything. The only other item I found missing was the spacers for the front lower ball joint. I was able to pick those up on Amazon and avoid the FFR dependency.

I sent the updated list of what I was missing In addition to the original back order list (rear LCA hardware, 2 Koni's, wrong wheels, bumper hoops) to FFR about a week and a half ago and I was notified after a few days that the request had been submitted to shipping.

I have not received any of the back ordered parts from the initial delivery or the added items that I sent a week and a half ago so I decided to call them today and get an update. He could not give me any firm dates on the key items that I need for the rear suspension but it sounds like it will be at least a month before I get the shocks, sway bars and axles.

Meanwhile, I have finished up the front suspension and power steering rack (except for the back ordered sway bars). I installed the differential which I posted in Edwardb's IRS thread and I have the pedal box and master cylinders initially installed. I say initially because I have a bit of the issue with the clutch arm hitting the chassis. I am not happy about the options that include cutting stuff and I know FFR says it's just fine so I'm trying to convince myself of that or think of another option.

Another issue is that I have the Breeze Power Steering Rack and I also ordered the Offset Rack Mounting Kit but it was harder to line up than the differential was and after looking it over I decided it was not really necessary so I installed it with the delivered bushings. I thought that was just fine until King stopped by this weekend and pointed out the boot rub issue... I spent the rest of the afternoon pulling it out and widening the slotted DS PS Rack mount holes in the chassis so the rack would fit. Now the rack is installed with Mounting Kit and no boot rub.

I have been trying to work on filler work while I wait on the items I need in order to follow the build manual but I really think it's best to stand down for a little while until I get the needed parts and build it more methodically.

Suggestions/ideas on a 3 compartment reservoir are welcome along with words of encouragement to get through the backorder blues!

[RRussellTx]

i also cut the ears off the rear knuckles and ground them down into a more molded look (busy work).

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71384&d=1501443454

And got some of the bare metal parts Powder Coated:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71383&d=1501443442

Here is a shot looking down on the boot rub issue AFTER the fix:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71382&d=1501443430

And token shots of the front suspension:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71386&d=1501443611
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71385&d=1501443603

[edwardb]

Sorry to hear you're not making better progress with backorders. I'm down to just the Wilwood brakes, as already mentioned. But it was a full two months after delivery. I called FF and emailed frequently (ask them...) and always received a friendly response. But often without firm promise dates. It's easy to get discouraged. Hang in there! I guess I'm a little surprised about their response to the clutch arm/chassis interference issue. If they don't think it's a problem, then probably why it hasn't been fixed. The interference does exist. No two ways around it. The only way it wouldn't be a problem IMO is if your clutch throw doesn't require the pedal to be pushed down that far (not my experience) or if you raised the pedal up enough to get full release before interference. This would make the clutch higher than the brake, which I also don't like. My suggestion is if you don't want to modify anything at this point, no problem. Wait until you have everything installed, plumbed, etc. and see how it turns out. You should leave the DS footbox outside panels off until the very end of your build anyway, so it would be easy enough to address it later.

Your cleaned up rounded knuckles look great! Looks like they came out of the mold that way. Nice work. I'm surprised you had trouble installing the steering rack and Breeze bushings. Interesting how everyone's experience can be different. It was nothing like installing the IRS center section for me. Now that was hard. :p

For the triple reservoir, many of us have used the CNC piece. Their part number 1483. I used the double on my first build, and the triple on the last build and will use it again on the new build. In addition to being a nice looking and very functional piece, I really like their pressure cap for bleeding. Check their part number 1459A. Easiest way to bleed the brakes and clutch I've ever found.

For more work, you're stopped about where I was a couple weeks ago. Other things you can work on? Gas tank, radiator, and you could basically complete the instrument panel if you wanted to. You can also start drilling and cleco'ing aluminum panels.

My Coyote engine arrived yesterday. I'll be updating my build thread in the next few days.

[David Hodgkins]

I just wanted to chime in and say I'm following the build and it looks great so far! I do have one question: What kind of rivets are those on your f-panel?

Regarding filler work you have a ton of drilling for all the panels in front of you so that's a good thing to get out of the way and the brake lines are another fun project to tackle. BTW nice work on those Knuckles! Are you going to spray them with a clear or leave them raw? (Oops I guess that's 2 questions...)

:)

[RRussellTx]

I just wanted to chime in and say I'm following the build and it looks great so far! I do have one question: What kind of rivets are those on your f-panel?

Regarding filler work you have a ton of drilling for all the panels in front of you so that's a good thing to get out of the way and the brake lines are another fun project to tackle. BTW nice work on those Knuckles! Are you going to spray them with a clear or leave them raw? (Oops I guess that's 2 questions...)

Thanks! I do my best work when my dad comes in town and helps out. We did most of the knuckles work and the nifty diff install on the same day. I'm going to spray them but not until I fit everything up and make sure I don't have any more filing to do.

The rivets are Allstar White Large Head Rivets - picked them up on Amazon. I like the large head look under the wheel well and on the more structural looking areas. I'll probably go with some much smaller heads when it gets to panel-panel but we'll see.

[ThickCobra]

Great progress. I also have an issue with the ps boots rubbing on both sides. (I purchased the ps unit from Forte Parts who's been great to work with .) At the time I installed it, I merely thought the fit was odd, but thought maybe everything fits a tad tight. I'll need to look at it again tomorrow but not certain as to what I can do.

Also, while centering it, I realized that its 2 1/2+ turns each way. Not certain this is important, but I've read that 3 turns is the norm.

[RRussellTx]

edwardb,

Thanks for the CNC tip and the words of encouragement! I know you feel my pain!
Looking forward to your next update - they always give me some things to do.

[Bhhughes]

Thank you for starting this build thread. I will be watching it with interest because the only thing that may sway me from my planned Coyote based build would be a 427W.

Best of luck with everything!

[ThickCobra]

RRussellTx, this is a general question, but as I suspect many are following your progress, maybe I'm not alone in this issue. I have found an issue relating to properly torquing suspension nut and bolts. I should note that I purchased a new Craftsman torque wrench so I don't believe it's the tool. As you know, several nuts come with deformed ends which make for great lock nuts. However, I am finding that the effort to tighten the nuts often exceeds the torque specs before they are clearly seated. I am finding this often and don't feel comfortable proceeding. In these instances do you merely tighten until they appear seated.

I'm not saying they are difficult to start or to thighten, just that they are tighter than the specs recommend.

Any advise?

[edwardb]

I'll throw my two cents in, and RRussellTx can add his as well. Something doesn't sound right to me. Those big suspension bolts are all mostly 100 ft/lbs torque values. That's a pretty good pull, and if you're nut is stopping at 100 ft/lbs and not seated, maybe something else is wrong. Those deformed nuts do take a little effort, but not that much. Are you sure about the torque wrench? Sure you're on the right range? Do you have another wrench you can use or borrow?

One other comment. My practice is typically to put a dab of anti-seize on all the suspension bolts before assembly. I find it's just good practice for the future if/when having to take them back off. I also put it on all stainless hardware, regardless of size, but that's to prevent galling and seizing which stainless is famous for. I don't think that's what's happening here. But it does provide a little lube to the threads. If you are stopping before being seating, i wouldn't expect that to fix it though.

[ThickCobra]

Thanks for the feedback. Problem identified and do I feel foolish, yet glad I asked. Operator error!!! Here's a hint as to what my problem was. A 250 inch lb. wrentch is not the same as a 150 ft lb wrench. Next time I wear my reading glasses. Tomorrow morning I redo all bolts.

[RRussellTx]

Well, it's past time for some updates so here is the latest. I've received most of my backordered parts except for the brakes and the CV axles so I was able to make some progress on the front end and a few other areas.

First up is the radiator. I purchased the Breeze Aluminum Fan Shroud #32088, The Hinged Mounting Kit #70558 and the Lower Radiator Support Kit #70551. I cut off the original mounting tabs, touched up the paint with the Rustoleum recommended by Edwardb and then centered the hinged mounting kit.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71388&d=1501444399

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71387&d=1501444389

I also cutout the fan shroud and got it prepped for powder coating. I'm still undecided on what color to powder coat everything but I am now leaning towards white for everything.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71389&d=1501444497

[RRussellTx]

I also prepped the gas tank and fuel filters when my dad was in town. We straightened out the tabs on the side of the fuel tank but the paint cracked when we straightened it so I prepped the edges and touched it up with POR15. I also added the 255 lph in-tank fuel pump for the Holley Terminator EFI as well as the Holley Fuel filters. We also fabbed up a mounting bracket for Fuel Filters since they don't really fit anywhere on the chassis. I'll get that powder coated next week along with some other parts like the sway bar mounting brackets that were not on my original order.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71392&d=1501444641

This is the fuel filter mounting plate in place under the trunk area:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71391&d=1501444630

This is the same plate with the fuel filters placed in the approximate location as they will hang under the plate. I should be able to connect this to the fuel tank with a short 6AN flexible hose.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71390&d=1501444614

[RRussellTx]

I also drilled and cleco'ed some of the foot box panels:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71394&d=1501444779

And finished up the front end by mounting the sway bars. The spacers put the rod ends at a pretty good angle even after we trimmed them to the 1/2 inch. We wound up trimming the spacers by about 3/8 of an inch to get the rod ends to hang correctly. This picture does not show it well but it does show the completed front suspension which is worth recording!
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71393&d=1501444769

[RRussellTx]

I have a few more things that I can work on but I really want the rear end parts and the engine so I can move forward with the big stuff first to help me visualize a few more things. Forte is running into more delays on the motor and I can't get a firm update from FF on the axles yet. No worries though, the excitement of getting started has subsided and I'm just enjoying the process. I realize that patience is the most critical ingredient for the build. Every time I get in a hurry, something gets a little off and everytime I really take my time it comes out great. I also have work and family time to balance so I'm starting to get in a groove there too. (I have been interrupted several times while getting this update written).

I'll update again after Thanksgiving when I should get a few days off to work on the car - a few of them with dad in town.

[edwardb]

Looking good. And familiar. :) I hadn't seen the Breeze upper radiator mount quite that clearly before. Interesting. I wasn't sure about the white powder coat, but the more I see it the more it's growing on me. You're doing some nice work there. I assume you know that retainer ring on the gas tank filler will have to be removed and then replaced when you put in the filler tube. There's a bead on the filler tube that goes inside the retainer.

[Boydster]

Your roadster is gonna be a blast, Russell. A bit the same as my plan. I have a question, tho...

Why the dual inline fuel filters? I think the 100 micron will catch everything so the 10 becomes redundant. I understand the need for a 10 and a 100 in an external pump application (before and after the pump), but with the internal 255 you have, I thought just the 100 was needed. I'm sure there's a logic behind it, just wondering as I'll be using many of the same items you are (427W, Terminator EFI, etc).

Thanks for keeping us up on your build.

EDIT: I believe I got it backwards... The 10 micron will catch everything and make the 100 micron redundant. I was thinking particle size, not filter size.

[RRussellTx]

The 10 micron will catch everything and make the 100 micron redundant. I was thinking particle size, not filter size.

Thanks Boydster,
You are correct that it is redundant and overkill. I picked up the filters to follow the Holley EFI fuel system kit but then opted for the in-tank pump. I'm going to install them both basically because I have them and I think they will filter better and longer as a pair. So really more circumstance than logic...

[Boydster]

Thanks Boydster,
You are correct that it is redundant and overkill. I picked up the filters to follow the Holley EFI fuel system kit but then opted for the in-tank pump. I'm going to install them both basically because I have them and I think they will filter better and longer as a pair. So really more circumstance than logic...

You just like really clean fuel, right? Thanks and lookin forward to more updates.

[RRussellTx]

All I want for Christmas is my Drivetrain from Forte and my back ordered brakes/axles.
Heck, I would be happy with an accurate promise date for any of the above.
My frustration level is pretty high at this point.

Worked on the aluminum panels, brake/clutch reservoir mount and played around with my new polisher while I'm waiting.

I'm polishing up the wheel spinners and had some paint matched to the wheels to paint the indented areas on the spinners.
I'll post some pics when I get done but I need to pick up another paint gun as mine had too much corrosion for me to trust it.

[KDubU]

Looks good so far. Just a FYI on your drivetrain from Mike. Jesse called me on Saturday after dyno'ing mine and I ordered a while back in July. He's getting through the orders and I know his Dyno going down for weeks in Sept really did not help things. Hope you hear some good news in the near future as I also waited a bit for Wilwood brakes as well.

[RRussellTx]

Thanks for the info Kyle! That is actually very helpful. When I ordered Mike said it would be about 6 weeks from order to shipment (I ordered mid-September) so that's why I'm frustrated. If he had said six months then I would be fine right now. My main issue is expectations for planning and info for communication. The first questions from my buddies and family is always "did you get the motor yet?" and the second questions is "When is it coming?". My answers are "Nope" and "No freakin clue". I've tried to pin Mike down on a date but I don't think he works that way.

Sounds like I should just plan on mid January but I was hoping to have it for the Christmas Holidays for when my Dad is in town to help...

[RRussellTx]

I received the Shipping Label for Gumball's Steering wheel so I'm off to the FedEx store. I'm also going to to send a little care package to Team Forte to see if bribery works at all...
48393

[David Hodgkins]

Any updates on this build? The 20th Anniversary cars are awesome...

:)

[RRussellTx]

Hi David. I'm still waiting on the front brakes and the motor. I received the rear brakes and axles right before Christmas and they went in without any issues. I've started the safety wire on the hats but got distracted over the holidays with work and family (and a little chill time for me).

King stopped by with his very impressive recently titled ride just before Christmas and gave me a bit of a scare. I tried to climb in his cockpit with my 6'-4" frame and it was not going to happen. My left foot was never going to get over that door sill - no matter how much yoga I took. Anyway, King and his son got a phone call and needed to run but I knew I had some work to do to set my mind at ease.

Since I had everything to get a rolling chassis - that's what we did. I got the wheels and tires mounted and rolled the chassis out in the driveway and then set the body on and set the seat in place. Then I was able to practice various entry and exit moves that should work just fine. There should be a step by step guide on how to enter/exit one of these little guys!

I also followed other people's lead and picked up a powder coating rig from Eastwood. I then took to Craigslist for the oven and picked up a very nice 1950's vintage Hotpoint Oven for $35 bucks. We spent some time rewiring it to an extension cord and putting it on wheels and I now have a very cool powder coating oven.

Other activities include creating a bracket for the CNC triple brake reservoir, cutting and mounting the rear differential vent, drilling and clecoing panels, practicing bending/flaring stainless steel brake lines...

I'll get a proper update with pics soon but right now I have many things started but few things finished...

[RRussellTx]

Powder Coating Setup:

I want to thank everyone that posted about how simple it is to get started with your own Powder Coating setup. It really is VERY cheap and easy to get setup. I went with the Eastwood Dual Voltage HotCoat Powder Coating Gun
Item #11676 and a pound of the #10107 Powder High Gloss Black. That set me back about $120 - all I needed then was an Oven to bake it in. I considered the little Eastwood Oven but I was afraid it would be too small so I took to Craigslist and found a 1950's Vintage Oven for $35 bucks. It was in great shape but it still had the 1950's wiring... I took it apart enough to get a modern extension cord hooked up and I placed the oven on a little dolly so I can roll it under my shop workbench. So now, for a little over $150, I'm all set for powder coating small parts.

Here are some pics of my new toy:

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71398&d=1501445131
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71397&d=1501445117

And here is a pic of one of the parts I have powder coated so far:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71396&d=1501445075

The oven has a Dual Rotisserie and an Automatic Shutoff timer - pretty fancy for a Powder Coating Rig...
i am going to try the Clear Powder next to see how it seals Aluminum.

[RRussellTx]

I also went ahead and picked up my tires last month. I went with the BFGOODRICH G-FORCE RIVAL S tires. I have had several sets of these in the past and I like the performance/price/treadwear combination that they provide. I picked up the P315/30ZR-18 for the rear and P245/40ZR-18s for the front. They are fat and sticky!


http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71400&d=1501445305

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71399&d=1501445292

[RRussellTx]

Rolling Chassis - to see if I fit...

As I mentioned a couple of posts back - King stopped by over the holidays and I had a hard time getting in and out of his car (AKA - it was never going to happen). I climbed in like I would my DD and my left leg was NOT going to get over door sill. Anyway, since I had my tires mounted and most of my suspension done, I thought I would roll it out and see if i could get into mine. I did figure out an easy way to get in and out but I do need to support myself on the center console and the body behind the door. Anyway, here is a pic of me pulling out some cleco's so I can get the seat in:

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71403&d=1501445448

And another shot without the body:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71402&d=1501445436

You can almost see the Diff Vent Tube in that shot but here is a better look. I just trimmed the 2015 Mustang Vent and heated it up a bit to get the bend a little straighter. I did not have to move the clip although the test fit left a little bite mark on the right...
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71401&d=1501445423

[RRussellTx]

Rear Suspension is Complete!!:

I did receive the Axles and Rear Wilwood brakes right before Christmas. I was so happy to get something that I could actually finish! I was able to get the rear end 100% complete.
Everything looks just like Edwardb's outstanding photos so I'm going to skip those photos for now. Although I did get the obligatory shot of the safety wire - (like Edwardb - don't look too close).

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71404&d=1501445579

I'm still waiting on the front Brakes - Jay said that Wilwood is having issues with the Rotors or something... I also don't have the emergency brake cables. I thought maybe they were going to come with the brakes but they were not in the shipment from Wilwood. If anyone can tell me the FFR part number or which box it came in I could double check my paperwork but after a good hour of searching, I really don't think it made in on my list of parts.

I have also made quite a bit of progress drilling the panels. I have also generated and ordered my initial list of parts for the rear brake lines but I'm still not 100% sure how I'm going to exit the DS footbox with the rear brake lines so ideas are welcome. I have also practiced bending and flaring the Stainless Brake lines and I do love the Eastwood flare tool. Perfect flares every time. I did have some challenges getting the bends exactly right so I ordered some 3/32" X 36" aluminum TIG welding rods to bend as a template (like cardboard before sheet metal), I'll see how that works after my brake line parts show up.

Hopefully the next updates will include front brakes and maybe even news about my motor from Forte.

Happy New Year everyone!

[2bking]

I have also practiced bending and flaring the Stainless Brake lines and I do love the Eastwood flare tool. Perfect flares every time. I did have some challenges getting the bends exactly right so I ordered some 3/32" X 36" aluminum TIG welding rods to bend as a template (like cardboard before sheet metal), I'll see how that works after my brake line parts show up.

I like the look of the 18 inch rims and low profile tires. And where is the picture of you in the seat?

I used the brake lines supplied with the kit for mockup and then bent the stainless.

[edwardb]

Lots of great updates and progress! Cool seeing the chassis sitting down on the wheels and tires. I don't remember stoves like that (and I'm kind of from the 50's too... :D) but what a perfect setup for powder coat. I might have to try that one of these days. Love the tires. Those are the exact ones that are on my short list when I think about tires in a few months. I see you chose the 245/40ZR18 for the fronts. Did you look at the 275/35ZR18's? 275's are generally at the upper limit for the front, if not too wide. But in the listings I could find, appear to be very similar in size to the 245's given the lower aspect ratio. Just curious. The 315's look perfect. I too like the 18 inch wheels and low profile. It's a different look, and one the traditionalist's may question. But it fits the overall modern theme of the build.

Like what you did with the diff breather. May copy that one. For the e-brake cables, my kit delivery also did not have them. They weren't on the manifest anywhere or on the POL shortage. Included them on the missing parts list I sent to FF and I received them shortly after. The part number on the cables is "14690 2015W." I've got them installed per the routing in the IRS instructions, and mocked up with the handle a few days ago. All seems OK. Hopefully you received the little clips required to attach the cable ends to the Wilwood e-brake caliper lever. Another powder coat opportunity since they're bare steel. I used a rattle can.

I'm still thinking about how to route the rear brake lines out of the footbox. My two other builds had the MC outside the footbox, so this is a first for me as well. Right now I'm thinking to bring both front and rear out of the footbox together. The front stopping at the 3/4 inch tube and going forward to the front wheels. The rear on down to the bottom of the footbox and then to the back along the outside of the 4 inch chassis tube. Similar to what FF shows in their build videos, and what I've seen from a number of other builds. I've seen a couple of builds where they take them down inside the footbox before exiting to go back on the 4 inch chassis tube. But I really don't want to bury them in there. Like 2bking, I used the FF supplied brake lines for mockup and then duplicated in stainless. For the 3/8 inch fuel lines on my last build, I bought a roll of 3/8 inch copper tubing at Home Depot (about $15 as I recall) and used that to mock up the various fuel line pieces. It bends easily by hand. Then duplicated in stainless. Planning to do the same this time around.

[RRussellTx]

Thanks for the tips on the brake lines guys. I may try them both since I have the materials on hand.

Edwardb,
I went with the 245's because I was not familiar enough with the car yet to know if the 275's would fit. I will certianly try the wider option for the next set if it will fit after I get everything dialed in. One of the things I like about the BF Goodrich Rivals is a very thick bead right around the rim. It saved me from curb rash in the past. The problem with the 245's is that there is less than 1/8th" overhang on the bead. The rears have a little over 1/4" and I ran a bit more than that on my last car.

Also, thanks for the e-brake info - very helpful as always!

[Mountain-Metalworks]

You can almost see the Diff Vent Tube in that shot but here is a better look. I just trimmed the 2015 Mustang Vent and heated it up a bit to get the bend a little straighter. I did not have to move the clip although the test fit left a little bite mark on the right...
http://i827.photobucket.com/albums/zz197/rrusselltx/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-12/B14407CA-B398-4D53-AD8F-BB2E934BCE01_zpsvbd74vi2.jpg (http://s827.photobucket.com/user/rrusselltx/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-12/B14407CA-B398-4D53-AD8F-BB2E934BCE01_zpsvbd74vi2.jpg.html)

I'm clearly not an expert on the topic(especially with this particular diff) but one comment about the vent tube routing/layout. With the checkball/one-way vent on the end, the only way it works as designed is if it's mounted vertical. Most have a small plastic/poly ball in them the seats properly based the situation: car upright/no pressure escaping, car upright/vent out under pressure, car sideways or upside down, etc....
The line coming out of the diff is at about 11o'clock position with the vent at 9o'clock. It looks like if you move the line to 2o'clock, the vent will be upright at 12o'clock and can still be mount on the same surface. All of this being said, it may not really matter that much based on the baffle on the inside of the diff for the vent. Oh, and by keeping the car shiny side up....

Beautiful build, I'll be continuing to follow as you make progress.

-TJ

[Jazzman]

I applaud your ingenuity with the powder coating. I may have to look into that on the next build. One question though. I can see where a home oven would work great for small pieces, anything that would fit in the oven. What do you plan to do for the larger panels that are too big for the oven?

Thanks for the photo of your differential vent tube installation. I am working on that right now. It is nice to see on possible option. Do you plan to make any change to the routing based upon TJ's comment about the need to install the vent vertically?

You are doing a great job! It has to be a great feeling to get it on the ground in the new shoes.

[networkcrasher]

Most check valves have a spring on the ball that forces it to seat unless there is pressure pushing the ball up, allowing the pressure to escape. It could very well work in any orientation.

[edwardb]

I'm clearly not an expert on the topic(especially with this particular diff) but one comment about the vent tube routing/layout. With the checkball/one-way vent on the end, the only way it works as designed is if it's mounted vertical. Most have a small plastic/poly ball in them the seats properly based the situation: car upright/no pressure escaping, car upright/vent out under pressure, car sideways or upside down, etc....
The line coming out of the diff is at about 11o'clock position with the vent at 9o'clock. It looks like if you move the line to 2o'clock, the vent will be upright at 12o'clock and can still be mount on the same surface. All of this being said, it may not really matter that much based on the baffle on the inside of the diff for the vent. Oh, and by keeping the car shiny side up....

Beautiful build, I'll be continuing to follow as you make progress.

-TJ


Thanks for the photo of your differential vent tube installation. I am working on that right now. It is nice to see on possible option. Do you plan to make any change to the routing based upon TJ's comment about the need to install the vent vertically?


Most check valves have a spring on the ball that forces it to seat unless there is pressure pushing the ball up, allowing the pressure to escape. It could very well work in any orientation.

I just looked at the Ford differential vent tube (FR3Z-4A058-A) and this is a non-issue. There's no check valve in the end of the line. It's just a little plastic cap that's loosely mounted, I'm assuming to keep water, debris, whatever from getting into the tube. Blowing through the tube it works exactly the same except when in a complete upside down position. It should be fine mounted as pictured. I'm actually not surprised about this. The 8.8 solid axle also has a vent on the top of the axle tube about halfway between the diff and the end of the axle. It's metal, but it also has a loosely fitted cap I assume for the same reason.

[RRussellTx]

Thanks for answering Edwardb - Spot on answer as always! I don't usually have time to check/update the forum until I take care of work and the kids homework so I appreciate the help! And TJ - you are also correct - Plan A is to keep the shiny side up!



One question though. I can see where a home oven would work great for small pieces, anything that would fit in the oven. What do you plan to do for the larger panels that are too big for the oven?


I have a local Powder Coater that I use that will take care of my big stuff like the Panels. He does a nice job but he has a $90 minimum plus he's about 30 minutes away. My little rig is going to be mostly for the odds and ends that need to be coated along the way. They can be sprayed, heated/cured and cooled in less than an hour and are fully ready to go. Items like the spacers for the shocks, the e-brake parts, hinges can be done but also all of parts that I fabricate along the way can be done quickly. I'm also going to try Clear Powder on the Aluminum CNC Reservoir bracket that I made as well as the spinners on the wheels once I shine them up - as examples.

[RRussellTx]

Well, after almost 5 months since my kit was 'ready', I have received my very last back-ordered part today (door latches)!
I received the front brakes last week and got them installed over the weekend without any issues and received the e-brake cables yesterday.

Now - where is that engine from Forte?

[rickscobra]

I am happy to report that I also received my door latches and front hubs this week. Front brakes came last week, so I was able to complete the front suspension. Only thing left on BO is the windshield. I picked up my Forte engine last month. Hang in there, Mike will get it to you. I hope to get the engine installed by the end of this month.

[Paul Mischenko]

Hey Guys, I'm all up to date on my 20th Ann POL as well. Latches came the other week. After finishing the IRS, started working on getting all the panels clecoed and installed before sending to PC. I did notice the drviers front box panel that was PC'd white with my kit was for the Mustang doner pedal box and not the Wilwood. Others may want to double check as well, as my body came with an aluminum wildwood panel in place. Quick call to guys at FF and they sorted it out quickly. I have to say their CS is pretty impressive. I hope to finish all my panels this weekend and send them off. Still haven't decided on the engine package but given my progress rate I have a little time. Looks like were finally going to get some snow in NY this weekend, so I hope to get some more work done on the weekend. Hope all your builds are going well. Cheers

[RRussellTx]

I finally received an update from Forte! He completed the engine a couple of weeks ago and I think he is getting ready to ship it out. Attached are the results from the Dyno...
50419

[RRussellTx]

Also, the brakes are just about complete. Here are a few pics of the finished product:

DS Front:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71408&d=1501445780

PS Front:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71407&d=1501445771

At Reservoir:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71406&d=1501445762

Footbox Panel:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71405&d=1501445754

Pedal Box:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71411&d=1501445961

Inside Footbox:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71410&d=1501445951

Looking down on the DS Rear:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71409&d=1501445943


I used the Gardner-Westcott Chrome Fittings and Stainless Steel Lines flared with the Eastwood Flare Tool. I also use the Ron Francis Brake Light Pressure Switch (SW32). This was my first attempt at brake lines and I'm pretty happy with the results. There is a pretty good pile of rejected attempts but I finally got a few runs that I was happy with. I still have some work to do getting the rear brake lines through the footbox floor but that should be pretty easy compared to the rest of it.

Really looking forward to getting the engine so I can be sure of the fuel line routing and the general fit for the engine compartment panels.

[edwardb]

Great job on your brake lines. First time and stainless too! Excellent work. I'm going to steal a couple of your routing ideas since my Anniversary build is the first time I've had the MC's inside the footbox. One hint/observation: Nice and neat how you brought the fluid reservoir lines through that access panel in the footbox front. But that location is normally used for the front wiring harness leg to exit the footbox and go up to the front of the chassis. Could get a little congested in there, or maybe will take some other creative routing. Your engine numbers look great too. :D

[RRussellTx]

One hint/observation: Nice and neat how you brought the fluid reservoir lines through that access panel in the footbox front. But that location is normally used for the front wiring harness leg to exit the footbox and go up to the front of the chassis. Could get a little congested in there, or maybe will take some other creative routing. Your engine numbers look great too. :D

Thanks for the tip. I'm finding that 'Creative routing' is a large part of my build! I don't need the clutch opening since I'm going hydraulic so I was looking at that for the wiring harness exit. It also won't be the first thing I've had to redo if I don't like it later.

[David Hodgkins]

GREAT JOB running those brake lines!

re: fitting into the car. On both of my build I cut off ~.45" of the threads between the MC and the pedal, and then cranked them all the way down to the bolt at the top of the threads to gain about 2" of legroom. What are you doing for seats? I used the Kirkey Vintage 48's instead of the big and tall traditional style seats. This gives you additional legroom as well. Last note regarding entry/exit. I instruct all newbies to stand on the seat and put their butt on the edge of the body (watch out for Levy jeans buttons and keys!) and then "walk" their feet down into the footwell and drop down into the seat. Exiting is a tricep press, working your butt up to the top of the seat before swinging your left leg out over the door sill and pipe. Trying to get your leg out before getting your butt up above the seat is a SURE FIRE way to get burned by the side pipes!

See my 15th anniversary build thread for how I mounted my seat brackets:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?13397-15th-Anniversary-MKIV-build-thread-Waiting-on-the-DMV/page6

Looking FANTASTIC with that body on! SOOOOO jealous!

:)

[RRussellTx]

I ordered the 427w Dart with the Holley Terminator EFI on September 17th from Mike Forte and it finally arrived today. It was supposed to be 6-8 weeks but turned out to be 24. I think Mike is like that friend of the family that wants to help everyone out but just does not have the time to get to everything. He will take care of you eventually but just can't say when - Kinda reminds me of my Dad and all of his projects without the pass that I get to the front of the line.

Anyway, I hope to get everything stabbed in this weekend (Hopefully Dad can make it up:cool:) so I can start to figure out the fuel line routing, electrical placement, power steering pump, other bling on the front of the engine, headers and all the other items that need to go around the engine.

Here are some pics and I hope to get some more this weekend with it in the car.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71415&d=1501446237

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71414&d=1501446217

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71413&d=1501446208

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71412&d=1501446199

[dougski]

Great looking motor. Seems worth the wait to me but hopefully did not hold you up too much. Did Mike run a dyno?

Doug

[RRussellTx]

Great looking motor. Seems worth the wait to me but hopefully did not hold you up too much. Did Mike run a dyno?


I agree - I'm not in a hurry so the wait was not a problem at all - the lack of knowing when to expect delivery was frustrating but not a problem. I posted the dyno results on February 7th below - well worth the wait!

[ThickCobra]

Your build looks great. In particular, the brake line routings look clean and sharp. And, I'm sure you're anxious to drop that motor in to see how everything fits. I have a general question about taking delivery of stroker engines and, this is more for documentation purposes. Other than the parts list to build the engine and a dyno sheet, what other information are others getting with their engine? I would guess their not blue printed, but maybe bore and stroke data for example. And, is any other information necessary? Maybe knowing the ci, hp and torque is enough. As a first time roadster builder I just dont know. Thought I would ask.

[Gumball]

Your build is looking great - ought to be a very nice car when done. One of the best parts of building an FFR is that not only is it a great project and fun to build, but when you're done, you have an awesome car to drive!!!

Great job on the powder coating, too. My wife bought me the DIY Eastwood kit, too and I found one of the discontinued Harbor Freight ovens at a local garage sale. It'd been used only a couple of times for the seller's chopper project and he decided not to build any more bikes - so I was able to pick it up for $100.

Pic is a bit distorted as it was cropped from a larger photo, but if anyone is looking for one of these, here's a visual - inside is about 22x18x18:

http://i845.photobucket.com/albums/ab15/CCRsAC/Powder%20Coat%20Oven_zpsqovqd0xi.jpg (http://s845.photobucket.com/user/CCRsAC/media/Powder%20Coat%20Oven_zpsqovqd0xi.jpg.html)

[RRussellTx]

Other than the parts list to build the engine and a dyno sheet, what other information are others getting with their engine? I would guess their not blue printed, but maybe bore and stroke data for example. And, is any other information necessary? Maybe knowing the ci, hp and torque is enough. As a first time roadster builder I just dont know. Thought I would ask.

Thanks for comments on the build and the brakes! As for the info on the engine, I went with Mike Forte based on his reputation in this community and his pragmatic views on what these cars need. Given that, I went on the assumption that no other data is needed but I probably I expected a little more data than I actually received.

I have actually not had much luck with communication from Mike - latest example, I was supposed to get a video about the build but I have not received one yet and he has not responded to my emails. I also received an extra hydraulic clutch kit from him with 2 extra master cylinders and he has not answered the email about how to return them yet either...

That said, it's a great looking engine and I'm quite sure it's going to run like a scalded dog.

I would probably build the next engine myself so I know exactly what I have but it's nice to have that out of the way so that I can focus on the rest of the car. I'm not sure what other people have experienced but that is mine.

[RRussellTx]

Great job on the powder coating, too. My wife bought me the DIY Eastwood kit, too and I found one of the discontinued Harbor Freight ovens at a local garage sale. It'd been used only a couple of times for the seller's chopper project and he decided not to build any more bikes - so I was able to pick it up for $100.


Very cool - DIY Powder Coating is the ONLY way to go for the small stuff! I'm contemplating building a larger homemade oven to do the larger panels but I'll probably end up just taking them in to a local powder coater. I just received 12lbs of the 20th anniversary white powder that Edwardb found a source for so I'll probably go one way or the other next week.

[ThickCobra]

Has anyone had issues with the Prismatic Powders white? As you know, the anniversary roadster comes with several panels coated with Prismatic Powders white. My local powder coater is doing a great job applying the Extreme Powder Coating's Glimmer but is not fond of the powders from Prismatic. He has found them to be difficult to order from and they are very slow to deliver. Also, he finds the product terrible to work with and often has to apply several coats, with light sanding in between.

[edwardb]

Has anyone had issues with the Prismatic Powders white? As you know, the anniversary roadster comes with several panels coated with Prismatic Powders white. My local powder coater is doing a great job applying the Extreme Powder Coating's Glimmer but is not fond of the powders from Prismatic. He has found them to be difficult to order from and they are very slow to deliver. Also, he finds the product terrible to work with and often has to apply several coats, with light sanding in between.

Strange, isn't it? I needed three pounds to do a few custom panels that I made, to replace the ones supplied already coated from FF. I ordered directly from Prismatic Powders on a Thursday, and had the powder on Friday. Less than 24 hours after I ordered. They had a promotion going for next day delivery, so that was part of it. But their website claims they ship same business day when ordered before a certain time. The parts came out very nice. No problems were noted, to me anyway. My powder coater said he liked the coating and color very much. Said he was going to consider making it one of his standard offerings. I don't know anything about powder coating (other than the general concept) so I can't begin to explain why two companies would have such different experiences.

[ThickCobra]

That is strange. I wonder whether it may be a relationship issue between my powder coater and Prismatic. I am waiting for a call from my powder coater to pick the white pieces. I can only hope their as nice as the glimmer color. I'll keep you posted.

[RRussellTx]

I got the engine out of the crate latest weekend and mounted it on an old Jet Ski stand so I can roll it around. I noticed some oil in the crate so I let it set for the week to see how bad the leak was. Here is a pic of the engine on my stand and the puddle underneath it after one week.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71417&d=1501446488

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71416&d=1501446478

Looks like I have some work to do on my 'crate' engine before I can install it...

[RRussellTx]

I finished up the Stainless Steel 3/8" fuel lines today. I used the same Breeze fittings that Edwardb listed in his build thread. They are very nice quality and easy to install.

Here is a shot coming up the engine compartment:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71420&d=1501446634

And one coming up the rear post on the PS behind the cockpit:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71419&d=1501446624

Underneath the trunk going into the fuel filter:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71418&d=1501446614


I also mounted the Breeze Battery Box and the Breeze Gas Pedal today. I still need to hook them up but they are at least mounted to the chassis.

Next, I have a little bit of work left on the panels before they go to the powder coaters and then I'll focus on the engine and the electrical. Spring time is coming so I need to make all the progress I can before the heavy yard work starts!

[RRussellTx]

I finally got time to break down the engine to find the Oil Leak. It had stopped leaking shortly after setting it on the jet ski stand but I was still worried that there was a problem. My thought was that maybe the leak was higher than the oil level so I raised one end of the engine about 20 degrees to match the angle that it was at when I pulled it out of the crate. Sure enough, overnight there was a considerable puddle under the rear main seal. I had removed the clutch and flywheel and dried everything off so I could see the leak. It turned out to be the oil pan gasket in multiple places. The Canton oil pan had a very nice FelPro gasket and was tightened appropriately so I was not sure how there could be a problem so I pulled the pan to see. I did notice that the pan was offset from the rear main seal but it was more apparent once the gasket was removed:

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71424&d=1501446846

The bolts also did not line up AT ALL! If you line up one side then the other side is way off. Here are the image of each side without moving the pan:

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71423&d=1501446836

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71422&d=1501446826

I honestly don't know how Forte ever got the bolts in the first time. Another issue was from when Mike machined the rear main to make room for the Canton oil pan. There was about a 3/32 burr sticking out into the channel where the gasket seats. This image was taken after the burr was removed but you can see the channel I'm referring to:

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71421&d=1501446816

Has anyone dealt with an oil pan this out of whack? Any suggestions on a replacement or repair?

[ThickCobra]

RRussellTx, as it appears you purchased an engine similar to mine from Mike, I have a few questions for you. I also have an engine leak coming from near the oil pan drain. I keep watching it and have tightened it a few times. It seems to have stopped, however, you make me wonder whether I need to look further. But, to my questions. I plan to use the ss hose lines provided by FFR but find the connection to the water pump, for the lower radiator hose, almost impossible to connect. The short adapter fitting appears too small for the neck of the water pump even with all the inserts removed. Did you find the same issue?

Second, Breeze sells an "Adjustable Thermostat Fan Switch Kit" to apparently supplement the automatic coolant temperature set up provided with the kit. Have you or anyone with our old school engines found the need to install this kit - #70635?

[RRussellTx]

O
RRussellTx, as it appears you purchased an engine similar to mine from Mike, I have a few questions for you. I also have an engine leak coming from near the oil pan drain. I keep watching it and have tightened it a few times. It seems to have stopped, however, you make me wonder whether I need to look further. But, to my questions. I plan to use the ss hose lines provided by FFR but find the connection to the water pump, for the lower radiator hose, almost impossible to connect. The short adapter fitting appears too small for the neck of the water pump even with all the inserts removed. Did you find the same issue?

Second, Breeze sells an "Adjustable Thermostat Fan Switch Kit" to apparently supplement the automatic coolant temperature set up provided with the kit. Have you or anyone with our old school engines found the need to install this kit - #70635?

ThickCobra,
From your description, it sounds like you just needed to tighten the drain plug. Mine leaked there as well (that was Mikes first response too). My main leak was coming down the front of the block plate. I would tilt the engine back about 20 degrees to get the oil level high enough if you want to check the pan. It took several hours to get a good puddle on the floor at that angle.

I called Canton Racing directly and they gave me an AGR to send it to them 'under warranty' to check to see if the pan was out of shape and then to correct it if it was. They received it last Friday and had it straightened out and in the mail today. They said that the pan was indeed badly shaped but that they were able to straighten it out without any problem. They also only recommend a 4 piece oil pan gasket for their pan and Mike uses a one piece gasket. They did say that some engine builders have good luck with the Ford Racing one piece Gasket (which is what Mike uses) but they don't really recommend it.

Since I am still having issues with the engine, I have not installed it yet so I have not encountered any issues with the hoses yet. I will also be using the Breeze Automitive Radiator hose kits 70688 and 70690 so hopefully they will fit correctly.

I won't get the oil pan back until Monday and I'll be at the TCC meet in San Marcos this weekend so it will be a few weeks before I can give more feedback.

Hopefully others can be more helpful in the meantime.

[ThickCobra]

RRussellTx, I hope your oil pan issue is solved quickly. I will take a look at tilting the engine and hopefully don't have any other leaks lurking. Better to discover and address an issue early on. If you have other engine issues, please feel free to share. I'm following your build so 2 thumbs up. Also, would the Breeze kits you are intending to use include 70635?

[edwardb]

Breeze sells an "Adjustable Thermostat Fan Switch Kit" to apparently supplement the automatic coolant temperature set up provided with the kit. Have you or anyone with our old school engines found the need to install this kit - #70635?

The Breeze kit replaces what's in the kit. The kit uses a sensor in the engine measuring coolant temp -- typically in the manifold or water neck -- and uses the temp to trigger the cooling fan on/off. The Breeze setup uses a probe into the fins of the radiator. I've only used the coolant temp version with the two SBF builds I've completed, and it works OK. Probably the main advantage of the Breeze unit with the pretty well known Flex-O-Lite controller is that the set points are adjustable. The engine mounted ones are fixed, although several different temp range sensors are available.

[RRussellTx]

RRussellTx, I hope your oil pan issue is solved quickly. I will take a look at tilting the engine and hopefully don't have any other leaks lurking. Better to discover and address an issue early on. If you have other engine issues, please feel free to share. I'm following your build so 2 thumbs up. Also, would the Breeze kits you are intending to use include 70635?

I have the Holley Terminator EFI with my build so I may see if I can use that cooling sensor as part of my plan but I have not started researching that yet. I've pretty much stopped moving forward until I get the engine/tranny in place. My original plan only got me to that point and then I planned on going through all of the remaining build (and remaining parts/budget) to develop another plan to get me to a crude go-kart stage without much interior. This next phase is mostly electrical and engine compartment layout so I'll figure out the cooling sensor/fan switch at that time.

I'll follow your research on this one!

[ThickCobra]

Back in September, while waiting for my roadster delivery, I purchased quite a few of Breeze kits and have worked thru most of them. The adjustable thermostatic fan switch kit caused me to pause as I don't like going with an alternative system just for the sake of modification. But, looking back at high school times, it was always a headache replacing the coolant temp sensor. So..., based on your excellent yet simple feedback, I guess I'll move forward with the adjustable Breeze set up. Thanks!

I am also hoping to achieve crude go cart stage by June/July. And, although I am moving along well, I seem to get hung up on certain areas. I have to step back, which means "stop moving forward" until I miraculously gain clarity on how to proceed. And, as good as the forum is for sharing, I have come to appreciate the fact that some things I need to just work thru on my own. That doesn't mean I'll stop asking or stop sharing.

What an adventure!

[RRussellTx]

Well, I'm still fighting the Oil Pan issues.

As a recap, my Forte 427w leaked oil upon arrival and I have been chasing the issue off and on for several weeks.

- Oil in bottom of crate upon arrival
- Lifted engine and move to rolling dolly and let it set for a couple of weeks - it leaked for first few days then stopped...
- The leak was from in front of the Block Plate so it could have been several types of leaks
- Pulled the clutch and flywheel and cleaned up all of the oil from the engine
- Tilted the front of the engine up about 20 degrees - noticeable oil puddle after about 6 hours
- leak was clearly from the Oil Pan but looked like is was up and down the gasket and not from a clear location
- Pulled the Pan and noticed that it was not shaped correctly and that there was a bur in the rear main gasket channel
- Shipped the Pan to Canton Racing and they confirmed that is was badly shaped and they fixed it and returned it at no charge (I only had to pay for one way shipping and the packaging to get it up there)
- Canton recommends a 4 piece Gasket for the 15-680s Oil Pan that came on the Forte 427w so I replaced the gasket with a new Canton 88-650 Oil Pan Gasket:
https://www.cantonracingproducts.com/product/88-650/88-650----SBF-351W-FOUR-PIECE-OIL-PAN-GASKET/
- The Oil Pan came back early (Last Friday) so I left the Texas Cobra Meet early so I could get back and get it installed


Now the latest, updates:

1. The Oil Pan fits perfectly now on all of the bolt holes and does not hit the #4 main cap anymore. Not sure how they do it...
2. The front seal looks like it might be tight at the very bottom of the front lip but I think it's going to be fine.
3. Now I'm afraid the bolts that Mike used are too long for the application. They are 3/4" long and if I tighten them firmly to the bottom of the holes, they probably don't go deep enough the compress the gasket. Here are a couple of shots of the bolts he used and one shot with it tightened firmly to the bottom of the hole. I'm going to guess that he used bolts for a pan with a side rails but mine does not have a side rail. I actually cut a 6" section of the Ford Racing Gasket that he used and bolted it in sideways to see if I could get it tight enough to squeeze the gasket. It did squeeze the gasket but it was not firmly compressed and I could spin the gasket fairly easily while underneath a very snug Oil Pan bolt. Right now, I'm pretty sure I could have just left the pan in place and replaced the bolts with shorter ones and that would have resolved the issue. That said, I'm glad I got the bur out of the gasket channel and that I got the pan straightened out.

Now I need to order a proper set of oil pan bolts (or maybe some studs) so progress is again stopped. Once I get the Oil Pan re-installed, I want to clean up some rust on the block and finish the painting that Forte started.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71427&d=1501447044

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71426&d=1501447036

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71425&d=1501447026

Does anyone know what length a 351w Oil Pan Bolt should be?

Also, any votes for Studs vs Bolts? Any favorite brands?
I need to order a set of some kind and hopefully get the engine back together next weekend.

[edwardb]

You can't go wrong with anything from ARP for the pan bolts. Their part number 254-1804 is shown for a 351 block. But not sure if they're the right length for your aftermarket pan.

[RRussellTx]

The oil pan issues are finally resolved. I went with the ARP Studs and they worked very well. The straightened oil pan was pretty tight on the front and rear seals so I figure the studs would make sure they came down straight as I tightened everything down. I was worried that this might have been why the pan was bent up in the first place so I figured the studs were the safe route. They made the install super easy and allowed me to work the pan into place slowly by tightening each nut a little at a time using the criss cross pattern from the inside out. I also used a thin bead of gasket sealer to both lube the rubber ends up and add a little insurance.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71430&d=1501447195


I was then able to get the rest of the Engine/Transmission together and also get the Hydraulic Clutch Kit installed except for finalizing the fittings and hose routings. Hopefully, I'll get the engine installed next weekend and then I need to focus on some spring cleaning around the house. We have our annual crawfish boil at the end of the month and its quite the production. I'll start the electrical after I clean up the mess from the party in early May.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71429&d=1501447185

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71428&d=1501447177

[DaleG]

Remove the "gold" square cover on top of the tranny; clean mating surfaces well and seal with Permatex Super Blue silicone gasket maker. Follow the tube directions. I had a pesky leak from that joint that was a bear to fix on the finished car. Lookin' good!

[RRussellTx]

Remove the "gold" square cover on top of the tranny; clean mating surfaces well and seal with Permatex Super Blue silicone gasket maker. Follow the tube directions. I had a pesky leak from that joint that was a bear to fix on the finished car. Lookin' good!

Thanks Dale, I think I'm going to make the cover to the Transmission Tunnel cover removable for that very reason.

[RRussellTx]

Mom is working very hard to be retired and one of her hobbies includes a sewing machine that stitches patterns from computer images. She contacted Factory Five and obtained the 20th Anniversary Logo image (and a copyright release) and then made me this bag. Pretty cool Mom!
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71431&d=1501447379

[RRussellTx]

Well, I'm sure there is a trick to getting the engine mounts to line up more easily than i was able to make it work - but i eventually coaxed them in there. They sit very high on the chassis mounts and getting the index tab on the mounts to fit in the slot on the chassis was very difficult. I basically had to loosen every part of the engine mount and then work it into the chassis slots and then tighten them back up as I lowered the engine. The engine mount index buttons are at the very top chassis slots but i think it will be fine.

I also learned that i will need about a 1" spacer for my TKO600 Transmission and that my Driveshaft is too long... Should my Drive shaft from FFR have fit or do most people end up needing to get a custom drive shaft? I would think a 351w with a TKO600 would be pretty standard.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71434&d=1501447532

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71435&d=1501447577

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71433&d=1501447521

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71432&d=1501447511

[edwardb]

OK, you're going to have one of those 20th Anniversary bags made for all the 20th Anniversary owners, right? Seems like the right thing to do. :D Seriously though, very cool.

Having to loosen the motor mounts and rock the engine onto the mounts isn't unusual. Just when you think it's not going to go it drops in. At least that's been my experience with SBF's. I'm not following your observation that the drive shaft is too short. Looks like it may be too long. But hard to tell from the angles. The short answer though is you should have a driveshaft that fits without modification. You're right, you have a pretty standard configuration. Assuming that engine/trans combination was specified on your order, FF should have supplied a driveshaft of the right length for the IRS suspension. They list an 8.375 or 10.625 inch as the two available lengths for the 2015 IRS and your 31 spline TKO output.

[RR20AC]

I'm looking at mine as I read this and mine is the short one. I have all the parts the same as yours. Jim

[RRussellTx]

Thanks Jim and Paul,

Paul - My bad on the description, I did mean too long. Thanks for the SBF engine mount confirmation (but I gotta believe mine was on the extreme end of the spectrum)
Jim - thanks for the confirmation on the parts.

I have an email exchange with Factory Five at the time of my order specifically asking about the correct driveshaft for my application and they confirmed the one on my order was correct (the long one). Hopefully they will confirm I need the short one and let me trade it out.

[carlewms]

Well, I'm sure there is a trick to getting the engine mounts to line up more easily than i was able to make it work - but i eventually coaxed them in there. They sit very high on the chassis mounts and getting the index tab on the mounts to fit in the slot on the chassis was very difficult. I basically had to loosen every part of the engine mount and then work it into the chassis slots and then tighten them back up as I lowered the engine. The engine mount index buttons are at the very top chassis slots but i think it will be fine.

When we installed my SBF we had to persuaded it a bit as well; the index buttons are also at the very top chassis slots.

Carl

[JC Of NM]

Keep the updates coming, this is great.

[Jeff Kleiner]

I leave the mounts a bit loose on the block by about 2 threads while dropping the engine in. This allows a little of extra "wiggle room" while getting it into place then once it has dropped into the chassis pedestals you tighten these and the big mount nuts.

Jeff

[WIS89]

Mom is working very hard to be retired and one of her hobbies includes a sewing machine that stitches patterns from computer images. She contacted Factory Five and obtained the 20th Anniversary Logo image (and a copyright release) and then made me this bag. Pretty cool Mom!
http://i827.photobucket.com/albums/zz197/rrusselltx/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-04/8AA0FD37-450E-4618-AF07-D975A40215DE_zpsyjrgpzia.jpg (http://s827.photobucket.com/user/rrusselltx/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-04/8AA0FD37-450E-4618-AF07-D975A40215DE_zpsyjrgpzia.jpg.html)

You need to tell Mom she did an awesome job! That tool bag looks terrific, and I know there's going to be a lot of jealous Anniversary Builders!

However, I think she could have quite a few interested folks with the standard logo too!

Looking good!!

Regards,

Steve

[RRussellTx]

You need to tell Mom she did an awesome job! That tool bag looks terrific, and I know there's going to be a lot of jealous Anniversary Builders!

However, I think she could have quite a few interested folks with the standard logo too!

Looking good!!

Regards,

Steve

Thanks Steve - I'll pass it along. I know she will appreciate the kind words.

[JC Of NM]

Looking good.

[ThickCobra]

RRussellTx, I also use the Breeze upper and lower radiator mounts which make it very easy to adjust the angle to 51° and reduces the stress on the radiator channels. I plan to set some time asside to practice attaching pics which helps with describing items and to share.

I do have 2 wiring questions for you electrical gurus. Cut off switch: there are 4 wires in a loom from the fuse panel to be connected to the starter solenoid, 3 red and 1 blue wire as a clutch safety switch. The 3 red wires, battery fd, alternator fd and ignition switch will be trimmed and attached to one side of the cut off switch. As for the blue wire for the clutch safety switch, do I still need to run this wire directly to the starter solenoid?

Second question. Alternator indicator light. I am running a carburated engine with a 1 wire alternator from Forte. The Ron Francis wiring guide indicated that I could add an alternator dash light by inserting a 510 ohm 1 watt resistor in line and run a wire to the alternator smaller plug. There is a rubber plug on the alternator and underneath 2 male leads. One lead labeled 1 R and the other marked 2 F. Can I use the brown wire that is in the alternator wiring loom and if so, which lead would I connect it to?

[edwardb]

RRussellTx, I also use the Breeze upper and lower radiator mounts which make it very easy to adjust the angle to 51° and reduces the stress on the radiator channels. I plan to set some time asside to practice attaching pics which helps with describing items and to share.

I do have 2 wiring questions for you electrical gurus. Cut off switch: there are 4 wires in a loom from the fuse panel to be connected to the starter solenoid, 3 red and 1 blue wire as a clutch safety switch. The 3 red wires, battery fd, alternator fd and ignition switch will be trimmed and attached to one side of the cut off switch. As for the blue wire for the clutch safety switch, do I still need to run this wire directly to the starter solenoid?

Second question. Alternator indicator light. I am running a carburated engine with a 1 wire alternator from Forte. The Ron Francis wiring guide indicated that I could add an alternator dash light by inserting a 510 ohm 1 watt resistor in line and run a wire to the alternator smaller plug. There is a rubber plug on the alternator and underneath 2 male leads. One lead labeled 1 R and the other marked 2 F. Can I use the brown wire that is in the alternator wiring loom and if so, which lead would I connect it to?

Hardly a wiring guru, but after doing a few you kind of get the hang of it. I'll go ahead and take a shot at answers, even though in RRussellTx's build thread.

Cut off switch: I think I read correctly you aren't planning a firewall solenoid. If that's correct, the way I would wire with a disconnect is (1) large positive cable from battery to one side of the disconnect, (2) large cable from other side of disconnect to large lug on starter solenoid, (3) three smaller red wires from RF harness also on switch terminal with cable going to starter. Includes battery feed, alternator feed, and ignition switch feed. (4) The blue wire is the start wire (not a clutch safety switch) and goes to the smaller terminal on the starter. That's its purpose. The clutch safety switch just happens to be in the circuit, e.g. open and the +12V from the ignition switch doesn't go to the starter. Closed (e.g. clutch pushed in) and the starter gets the +12V.

Alternator indicator light: First, to wire your one-wire alternator, you can either attach both wires with large lugs to the alternator as described in the manual, or you can strip back the convolute and remove the shorter cable. You'll see those two wires are tied together not far back from the end. The brown wire and plug is also hard wired to the alternator feed, just further back on the harness. You can cut it off too. I personally don't have experience with an indicator light on a one-wire and the instructions in the manual for a light don't apply to a one-wire. A quick search indicates it depends on your specific one-wire alternator. Some, e.g. Powermaster, have a terminal that can be used for an indicator. Many however don't seem to. Personally, if you have a voltage gauge, I'm not sure the point. BTW, be prepared to get some flak about using a one-wire. Some will suggest otherwise. Personally, I've used them on my first two builds. First one just a generic one. Second a Tuff Stuff Performance brand. There are no doubt better performing alternators (i.e. 2G, 3G, 4G) but both have worked fine.

[karlos]

This is a good option for one-wire alternator setups - an auto-dimming LED voltmeter. Two-wire hookup and comes with its own bezel for easy installation in the dash. Comes from the UK so a little patience will be required to get one, but well worth the wait.

http://www.sparkbright.co.uk/sparkright-eclipse-battery-voltage-monitor.php

[KDubU]

Glad to see you finally got your engine and it's installed. That sucks about the oil pan leak and fit but all is good now.

[ThickCobra]

Hardly a wiring guru, but after doing a few you kind of get the hang of it. I'll go ahead and take a shot at answers, even though in RRussellTx's build thread.

Cut off switch: I think I read correctly you aren't planning a firewall solenoid. If that's correct, the way I would wire with a disconnect is (1) large positive cable from battery to one side of the disconnect, (2) large cable from other side of disconnect to large lug on starter solenoid, (3) three smaller red wires from RF harness also on switch terminal with cable going to starter. Includes battery feed, alternator feed, and ignition switch feed. (4) The blue wire is the start wire (not a clutch safety switch) and goes to the smaller terminal on the starter. That's its purpose. The clutch safety switch just happens to be in the circuit, e.g. open and the +12V from the ignition switch doesn't go to the starter. Closed (e.g. clutch pushed in) and the starter gets the +12V.

Alternator indicator light: First, to wire your one-wire alternator, you can either attach both wires with large lugs to the alternator as described in the manual, or you can strip back the convolute and remove the shorter cable. You'll see those two wires are tied together not far back from the end. The brown wire and plug is also hard wired to the alternator feed, just further back on the harness. You can cut it off too. I personally don't have experience with an indicator light on a one-wire and the instructions in the manual for a light don't apply to a one-wire. A quick search indicates it depends on your specific one-wire alternator. Some, e.g. Powermaster, have a terminal that can be used for an indicator. Many however don't seem to. Personally, if you have a voltage gauge, I'm not sure the point. BTW, be prepared to get some flak about using a one-wire. Some will suggest otherwise. Personally, I've used them on my first two builds. First one just a generic one. Second a Tuff Stuff Performance brand. There are no doubt better performing alternators (i.e. 2G, 3G, 4G) but both have worked fine.

Edwardb, as usual, spot on and easy to follow your response. And yes, the clutch safety switch happens to be in the ignition switch circuit. Now I need to find a nice tidy way to route the blue wire to the solenoid. As for the alternator, I do want to stick with the one wire I purchased. And, as you know, the anniversary roadster has a volt meter gauge so I won't be needing an alternator indicator light. Many thanks.

RRussellTx, sorry for inserting my electrical question in your thread. But the title, 20th Anniversary probably gets a lot of viewing and your build seems to be all encompassing. I thought I would share something we all need to address but I'll be selective going forward.

Jay

[RRussellTx]

RRussellTx, sorry for inserting my electrical question in your thread. But the title, 20th Anniversary probably gets a lot of viewing and your build seems to be all encompassing. I thought I would share something we all need to address but I'll be selective going forward.

Jay

No worries, I am just starting to think about the electrical for my build so it's great timing. I'm researching the different types of connectors right now. I need to start clearing out my garage for an annual event at the house so the build is on hold for a few weeks but I'll be deep in these questions after that.

[RRussellTx]

Glad to see you finally got your engine and it's installed. That sucks about the oil pan leak and fit but all is good now.

Thanks!
I heard back from Factory Five about the driveshaft that was too long. He said it looked like engineering changed the spec on my driveshaft since my order and they are sending me the correct driveshaft. I'll send the dimensions of the new driveshaft when it gets here so others with the 2015 IRS/351w/TKO600 will know what they might need.

After that, I'll be back on track!

[RRussellTx]

There has been quite a bit going on around our house over the past month with Birthdays, Mothers Day, Daughters confirmation, our annual crawfish boil and multiple hail storms. We were actually supposed to be at a family reunion this weekend but heavy rains washed out the road to my uncles place where we were all going to meet. That meant that I got a nice quiet 3 day weekend to spend in the garage - yeah! I mostly worked on electrical and a few odds and ends. I have had some time to do a little work over the past month here and there so I'll try to get caught up on the progress tonight.

First, the new driveshaft came in soon after my last post. The new driveshaft is much shorter than the last one I had (the actual shaft portion is less than 2" long).
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71439&d=1501447822

I was easily able to get the driveshaft installed (amazing how much the correct part helps) and I also fabricated the spacer for the TKO600 to raise the tail. I used 1" aluminum stock from McMaster Carr:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71438&d=1501447815

Next, I powder coated and mounted the Fuse Box and bracket. I used a piece of one of the unused brackets to make a strap for the back side of the panel.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71437&d=1501447808

Here it is in my little powder coating oven - Love It!
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71436&d=1501447799

[RRussellTx]

I have spent quite a bit of time on the electrical portion of the build without too much to show for it. I was worried about this part of the build but I think I'm over the hump with the routing phase outside of the cockpit. Now I have a semi organized 'collections' of wiring ready to be organized behind the dash. I wound up stripping out quite a bit of the unused wiring even though I told myself not to. It was like pulling a thread on a old sock. Once I got started, there was no good place to stop...

I wound up pulling out the wire from the Alternator to the Starter out of the harness (it was 11 feet long) and just routing it directly with less than 24". I pulled out the Hot Rod harness and most of the Ron Francis wiring for the guages since the 20th Anniversary Guage Set includes most of the wiring necessary.
I added a new Coolant Temp Sensor for the Guages in the Intake Manifold Heater Port in addition to the CTS for the Holley Terminator EFI. I also added the circuit for the Backup light - I found the correct connector on eBay and used the weatherpack to connect it to the harness.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71445&d=1501448079
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71444&d=1501448067

I also completed the Fuel System routing including a Holley 554-102 Fuel Pressure Transducer. I used the same Aeroquip fittings that I used near the tank in the rear.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71443&d=1501448056


Next up was the Radiator. I used the Breeze Fan shroud that I had prepared earlier in my thread. I wound up just putting a moderate polish on it and then some sharkhide. I could not decide what color to powder coat it so I just opted for a light polish and I think it turned out well. I also used the Breeze Upper and Lower Radiator hoses for the 351W. I will probably clean up some of the rubber hoses but overall i think it turned out great.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71442&d=1501448047

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71441&d=1501448038

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71440&d=1501448029

It sure is nice to throw away empty boxes as the parts go on the car. I'm running out of boxes that don't go in the cockpit or on the body. I'll be ordering the custom jig from StainlessHeaders after we get back from vacation so I can get them fitted and fabricated. After I get those in I'll button up the inside footbox panel on the drivers side and then I can route the wiring into the cabin for the last time.
I'm also looking at Power Steering Pump Options along with a slick pulley system - let me know if you have any sugestions on those.

We have a vacation coming up that is going to take up a couple of weekends so it may be a while before my next update. Taking the kids to see the Grand Canyon and then out to Disneyland and then San Diego for a few days at the Coronado for my wife.

[ThickCobra]

RRussellTx,

Nice to see the progress you're making. After debating whether to use the corrugated ss water lines, I ordered Breeze's upper and lower radiator hoses. Can't wait to get them.

Jay

[RRussellTx]

I just called up Speedhut to see if they could provide a matching Oil Temp Gauge including the 20th Anniversary MK4-010 markings. They said I just needed to make the notations on the order and they could take care of it. I just placed the order so we'll see how it turns out...

I'll post pictures in a few weeks when they come in.



RRussellTx,
I ordered Breeze's upper and lower radiator hoses. Can't wait to get them.


Jay, I think you will like the Breeze kits. They are clean and simple.

[edwardb]

I just called up Speedhut to see if they could provide a matching Oil Temp Gauge including the 20th Anniversary MK4-010 markings. They said I just needed to make the notations on the order and they could take care of it. I just placed the order so we'll see how it turns out...

I'll post pictures in a few weeks when they come in.

OK... I contacted Speedhut through email and phone not long after I picked up my Anniversary kit and said they would only provide an oil temp gauge (or any other for that matter) without the 20th Anniversary markings. Said it was a copyright issue and I would have to work directly through Factory Five. I was in the middle of sorting backordered parts, etc. and just didn't want to complicate things and didn't want one of the gauges without the special marking. So dropped it. I guess something changed. I have an oil temp gauge on #7750 and it's interesting to see what it's doing. But for my street driving nothing that seems very important. With the Coyote in the new build, just not something I expect is very important either. But I still would have liked to have it. Too late now. Oh well.

[Paul Mischenko]

Hey Russell, I'm going with a similar set up to you, Roush 427 SR, so a 351 W, but I'm going carb which has a mechanical fuel pump. I also have the PS rack from Breeze, KRC has some really nice PS stuff I think Edward went with them, I called and was speaking with Norm Frame, really nice guy, however we weren't sure if it would clear the mechanical fuel pump. I would have gone with KRC but Roush is soon offering this as an option so going with their setup from Turn One to ensure it all fits, I also spoke with Jones and March. I also have to install a reverse light to pass NYS inspection, have you decided what you are going to do? I looked at the mini option but didn't want to add something permanent or change the body. I bought a pair of white lens tail lights, perfect match to our red ones, that I was thinking to swap just for inspection or was trying to find something on the license plate.

[RRussellTx]

I also have to install a reverse light to pass NYS inspection, have you decided what you are going to do? I looked at the mini option but didn't want to add something permanent or change the body. I bought a pair of white lens tail lights, perfect match to our red ones, that I was thinking to swap just for inspection or was trying to find something on the license plate.

I have not done the research and figured out the reverse light yet but I did wire it to the license plate leg of the rear harness (the longest leg - just in case).
Also, thanks for the input on the PS pump, I'll check out the KRC stuff.
Really jealous about your Roush motor - That's going to be pretty sweet! I saw the Roush Coyote 5.0 SR engine in 001 of 20 at the Texas Cobra Club meet in San Marcos last month and bought a fist full of raffle tickets. They actually painted the engine cover to match the car colors which came out very nice.

[RRussellTx]

OK... I contact Speedhut through email and phone not long after I picked up my Anniversary kit and said they would only provide an oil temp gauge (or any other for that matter) without the 20th Anniversary markings.

That's a bummer! I'm not sure what changed but it was a much quicker conversation than what I had anticipated. It lead me to believe that it might have been done before but it was such a short conversation I can't say for sure. Maybe someone else worked through the conversation with Factory Five and opened the door. The custom items I paid for were the MK4-010 on the face and also for the 'custom Factory Five Font' they used.

[RRussellTx]

My oil temp sensor came in from Speedhut. Looks good but I need a 1/2 male x 1/8 female npt adapter to get it mounted in my Canton oil pan.

I may just swap it out for the clock since the arms don't light up on the clock and I usually have a phone or watch to tell time. Maybe I can make a desk clock for my office...

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71446&d=1501448258

[RRussellTx]

This weekend we prepped for the GP Headers custom jig by setting on the body and test fitting a few things.

I first figured out that the Forte 427 engine does not fit with his air cleaner setup. I have about a 1/2" interference:

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71448&d=1501448337

Has anyone encountered this? Any suggestions on how to solve?

Also, the jigs came in today from GP Headers but they did not have any header bolts with them so they are on order now along with a set of Remflex gaskets. I should have them in by the weekend so I can get them fitted and returned over the long weekend.

Any advice or pics on the best way to line up the side pipes would be welcomed!

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71447&d=1501448330

I also ordered a set of the new DS footbox panels from Factory Five. I really want/need the extra header space and foot room that is provided by the new panel design so I'm hoping its a direct fit. I have not riveted in those panels yet so I'm hoping its just a matter of powder coating and installing them. I'll post pics of what comes in with the order after it arrives.

[edwardb]

It's pretty normal to trim back the lip around the hood opening. I try for about 3/8-inch. That would help some, but not solve a 1/2-inch interference. Not unusual to have intake height limitations with the 351-sized engine you're using. Probably will require a different air cleaner or perhaps a dropped base. Those Cobra intakes are considered pretty restrictive anyway, BTW. This picture of my #7750 Mk4 shows how the hood opening is trimmed (if you open it and zoom in) and also a different configuration air cleaner. Although this is a 302-sized Dart block, so height isn't as critical.

http://i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab234/edwardb123/Factory%20Five%20Mark%204%20Roadster%20Build/Completed/th_IMG_2971_zpsd222dc94.jpg (http://s867.photobucket.com/user/edwardb123/media/Factory%20Five%20Mark%204%20Roadster%20Build/Completed/IMG_2971_zpsd222dc94.jpg.html)

It's cool you're going to have those headers custom made so your pipes fit exactly. Ideally, you should have the body on and the doors aligned. Sometimes the sills need to be moved around to get the best door alignment. Especially on the driver's side. Then hang the pipes parallel to the body using the fixtures.

[KDubU]

I had the exact same issue with my 351 from Forte. After several iterations I went with a nice round 14"x3" from Spectre with a drop base.


http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff310/Kyle241_2000/image.jpg1_zpsgupezv05.jpg

[RRussellTx]

It's cool you're going to have those headers custom made so your pipes fit exactly. Ideally, you should have the body on and the doors aligned. Sometimes the sills need to be moved around to get the best door alignment. Especially on the driver's side. Then hang the pipes parallel to the body using the fixtures.

Thanks for the input on the air cleaner edwardb!

Also, I'm on the same page for the body fitment. Dad came into town this weekend for that exact reason and we got the body on and lined up with everything. That's when we found the dash fitment issue and the air cleaner issue. I also plan on checking out the #7750 thread to see if I can find a good shot of the side pipes coming out of the body as a point of reference. It's always a good starting point.

[RRussellTx]

I had the exact same issue with my 351 from Forte. After several iterations I went with a nice round 14"x3" from Spectre with a drop base.


Thanks Kyle,

I just read your post on the other forum. It looks like you had the exact same gift from our buddy Mike. Did you ever talk to him about it?
I also don't want to lower the engine at all because the oil pan is already exactly flush with the bottom of the chassis.

I already had an issue with the Air Cleaner from him because the Holley EFI throttle linkage has an interference with the air cleaner as delivered from him. You can force it past the air cleaner but then it sticks on the way closed. Not safe at all. Anyway, I'll just keep researching alternative air cleaners. Thanks for posting yours!

[KDubU]

No I did not discuss it with him as when I communicated my concerns about the oil pan clearance, he said to just avoid speed bumps. Not the best answer I was looking for. I also did not want to lower the engine and I went through three air cleaner assemblies before this latest one which I am most happiest about. There is a Summit oval one you could use that has an open top but you would have to go with the smaller of the two which I believe is 11" in length vs the longer one at 15". I also considered a turkey pan with a 9" that someone else did on their 351 and it looks really nice.

[RRussellTx]

I've let myself get behind on my build posts but I just updated another thread with the information about my headers so I thought I would go ahead and post it here too and get the thread updates started. As stated earlier, I went the custom Header mockup route with GP Headers - they do very nice quality work and are easy to work with. They nudged me in the custom mockup direction for the 351w based on the different heads that could be used on that engine and the slight variations they see. They sent me the jigs in the photo posted previously and had me mount them and tighten them up with the Sidepipes lined up where I wanted them. This is not an easy one man job...

I first had to set the body on and get it positioned as close to the final position as I could. This included aligning the doors as it impacts the location of the body under the doors and therefore the alignment of the pipes. Once the body was where I wanted it, I mounted the jigs and tightened up the bolts to lock in the location for the sidepipes. The bolts and lock washers that they had on the jig had been used a few times and were not exactly smooth in operation. In retrospect, I probably should have replaced them as there was either some movement during shipping or the GP guys did not match the drivers side correctly.

I actually left the body mounted in the exact same position from the time that I mocked up the jigs until the finished headers were delivered and mounted so I could be sure of the accuracy of the header fabrication (took about 8 weeks out of my build activities but I had other things going on too). The location that the headers exit the body was perfect on both sides but the direction that the side pipes follow down the side of the body was about 1/2" off on the passenger side and a little over 2" off on the drivers side. They offered to have me cut the header down the weld where the O2 sensor bung is and then tack it into place and send it back to them to correct it. I was prepared to do that but I decided to try a couple of the wedges first and they lined up perfectly so I'm just going to stick with them. I have the headers installed now with Remflex Gaskets and Stage 8 locking bolts.

Here is a shot of the Headers upon delivery:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71452&d=1501448607

And here is a shot of the drivers side installed on the car with the misalignment. Note that the sidepipe touches the car and still has a gap at the header.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71451&d=1501448593

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71450&d=1501448581

As noted in my previous post, I had ordered the new Factory Five Drivers Side Footbox Panels to get a little more space for my feet and my headers. After installing the headers I decided that there was plenty of room with the old inside panel and since the new inside panel was not compatible with the Russ Thompson throttle pedal, I decided not to use it. (free to a good home if anyone wants it). I also wound up just robbing the expansion metal from the outside footbox panel and reusing my original panel with the 20th anniversary powder coating. Turned out to be a pretty expensive way to get another 1.5" for my foot but I'm glad I have it.

Here is the outside footbox panel with the expansion metal (and lizard skin applied):
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71449&d=1501448569

I'll try to get more updates soon as I'm pretty far behind.

[RRussellTx]

Update on the Speedhut Gauges:

As updated previously, I was able to purchase an Oil Temp Gauge that matched the 20th Anniversary Gauges as seen below:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71446&d=1501448258


I was pretty happy with myself until I realized that the Water Temp was in Celsius and the new Oil Temp was in Fahrenheit - Doh!
I was debating what to do about it when (first start spoiler alert) I found out that the Tachometer had a loose wire and was not working properly. I called Speedhut and they said to send in the tach and the water temp gauge and that they would fix the Tach and give me a new fahrenheit faceplate on the Water Temp gauge for $25.

Here is the new Water Temp Guage:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71454&d=1501448801

Everything is installed now and working correctly - Mischief Managed...

[RR20AC]

I am not sure why GP Headers told you to go the custom route. I also ordered a set for the exact engine from Mike and they made them up and shipped them in about 3 weeks with ceramic coat on them. They line up very well. Between the two sides, the passenger side sits a little high, 1/2 inch. I think Jeff Kleiner said to oval the holes a little for this type of adjustment. Building one of these cars takes a lot of time to sort thing out. Glad to see your making progress. Jim

[Straversi]

Love the thread. Great work and great photography! Can't tell you how much the clear, well lit photos help the rest of us.
-Steve

[RRussellTx]

Love the thread. Great work and great photography! Can't tell you how much the clear, well lit photos help the rest of us.
-Steve

Thanks Steve! Sometimes I feel like most of the things I have done lately have been done 1,000's of times so my updates are not really that helpful (and I'm always 'too busy' to make time to update the build page). I do try to update items that are unique or helpful though. I do appreciate the encouragement and I'll keep the updates coming!



I am not sure why GP Headers told you to go the custom route.

Jim, GP was cool either way. They just gave me a gentle nudge (I did not need much) toward the custom route. My engine mounts were sitting pretty high in the saddle and the 1" spacer under the TKO transmission made me a little nervous about the exact fitment. I'm sure that minor adjustments to the standard GP Headers would have been just fine but I liked the idea of starting out closer to where I wanted it and then go from there.

I don't think it would be nearly as much fun if there was no 'sorting out' required!

[Paul Mischenko]

Hey Russell, have you decided yet what you're doing for a back-up light? I need it for NYS inspection as well. I bought an LED license plate frame as one option, will run one wire there and use the fuel pump wire as another option do something temporary in rear?

[RRussellTx]

Hey Russell, have you decided yet what you're doing for a back-up light? I need it for NYS inspection as well. I bought an LED license plate frame as one option, will run one wire there and use the fuel pump wire as another option do something temporary in rear?

No, not yet. I'm leaning towards 2bKings setup but he was having some issues with them (link below). I'll probably go that route unless he has not resolved them or I find another solution when I start that part of my project.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?11097-King-s-MK4-Coyote-Build&p=223046&highlight=backup#post223046


I did run the wire back through the TKO switch so I have it wired but I don't know what I'm going to do with it yet...
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71455&d=1501449569

[2bking]

No, not yet. I'm leaning towards 2bKings setup but he was having some issues with them (link below). I'll probably go that route unless he has not resolved them or I find another solution when I start that part of my project.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?11097-King-s-MK4-Coyote-Build&p=223046&highlight=backup#post223046

I have not had anymore issues and have put many miles on the car since replacing all the original LEDs. I think the burn out may have been caused by the battery charger when the battery was removed. Other than that, I don't have a clue unless the first ones were not actually rated for 14V as stated. The replacements came from the same source.

[Paul Mischenko]

Great Thanks I'll have a look. Cheers

[Paul Mischenko]

Hey Russell, app one more question. My engine is similar to yours, 351 W, 427. Don't have it yet. I as well ordered the new panels from FFR and had them painted to give me the extra room for the headers. Sounds like this is only needed for a coyote setup and you were able to access the header bolts no problem using the original panels? I also have the Russ Thompson gas pedal, don't really want to sacrifice any pedal room as seems pretty tight already. Many Thanks

[RRussellTx]

Hey Russell, app one more question. My engine is similar to yours, 351 W, 427. Don't have it yet. I as well ordered the new panels from FFR and had them painted to give me the extra room for the headers. Sounds like this is only needed for a coyote setup and you were able to access the header bolts no problem using the original panels? I also have the Russ Thompson gas pedal, don't really want to sacrifice any pedal room as seems pretty tight already. Many Thanks


Yep, I was able to get the header bolts in without too much trouble at all. Here is a shot of the clearance on the DS. The header is about .5" away from the panel but there is about 2.75" for the back bolt.
Not exactly roomy, but it was not too bad getting them threaded, tightened and the Stage 8 locking washers installed (the locking washers did require a bit of grinding but thats another topic that has been discussed lately).
Only a moderate level of patience is required.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71456&d=1501449669

[Paul Mischenko]

Thanks v much Russell. Good luck with the rest of the build I wish I was making the same progress... Cheers

[RRussellTx]

I finally have my new Power Steering Pump and Pulley Kit fully sorted out!
I went with the CVF Racing 'Beast' pulley kit and the Saginaw Power Steering pump. It took some sorting out to get the spacers correct and the right belts/brackets but it worked out in the end.
If you use their products then I recommend calling first. They are somewhat familiar with the FFR setup but it's not on the website.

I had some issues with the water pump that I outlined here:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?23509-351w-Water-Pump-Leak-Void-in-the-casting-how-common-is-this-one


Before:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71460&d=1501449801

After:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71459&d=1501449792

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71458&d=1501449780

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71457&d=1501449772

[RRussellTx]

It also took some trial and error to get the right list of parts to connect the Power Steering pump to the Rack so here is my BOM in case it is helpful:

Saginaw P Series Power Steering Pump, 5/8" Keyway Shaft
- Outlet : 5/8-18 in. SAE Inverted Flare
- Inlet: 5/16" Hose Barb
- Saginaw P Series Pressure Reducing Valve - 800 PSI
High Pressure Side hose
- Aeroquip FCM1122 Steel -06AN 90-Degree Hose Fitting
- Aeroquip FCM1103 Steel -06AN Swivel Hose Fitting
- Aeroquip FCC0620 -06AN Teflon Racing Hose
- Breeze 21611 Fitting, 9/16-18 O-ring to 06AN (at rack)
- Breeze 21514 Fitting, 5/8-18 O-ring to 06AN (at pump)
Low Pressure Side hose
- Aeroquip FCC0806 6' Size (8) Teflon Hose
- Aeroquip FCM1104 Steel -08AN Swivel Hose Fitting
- Fragola Performance Systems AN to Inverted Flare Fittings 491949BL (at rack)
- Russell 622270 Chrome -8AN Tube Seal Fuel Hose End (at pump)

[RRussellTx]

I'm actually happy that I'm such a slacker when it comes to updating the build log because I just spent the last couple of hours transferring all of my photos off of Photobucket and onto the Factory Five Forum. I can't imagine the effort involved for an extensive build log like Edwardb - What a fiasco!

Anyway, I made my first legal drive this weekend. I got my insurance policy numbers last week from my Insurance agent through Grundy and then applied online for a Texas One-Trip Permit with intermediate stops at the Alignment/Inspection station and then the Weigh Station. Here is the website to get the One-Time Permit in Texas: https://rts.texasonline.state.tx.us/TempPermit/#nbb

I'm planning to drive the car for a while in gelcoat to shake out the kinks and see how everything settles in before I start the body work. I have all of the mechanical and electrical complete but none of the carpet or post paint panels or trim.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71472&d=1501452074\

I first drove over to Cobb Tuning in Plano (they are actually changing their name to Growler Motor Labs) to get an alignment and my ASE inspection. It was about an 8 mile trip but I stopped 3 times checking on smells and sounds but there were no issues at all. They don't work on old Fords much but they were recommended as a good alignment shop for high performance vehicles. As soon as I drove up, the owner was out at my car before I turned the engine off to check out the ride. He said he had been thinking about getting a roadster for several years to build with his kids and they were getting to the right age now. He had seen a few 818's from Factory Five but had never seen the MK4. I'm not sure if he was pushed over the edge to getting a kit but he was definitely impressed with the it. No issues at all getting the inspection and alignment.

My second leg of the trip was up to the Truck stop with CAT Scales up in Anna about 25 miles away. I kept looking for a closer place to get the certified weight for the title application until I realized that the farther away it was, the more I would get to drive my car on my one-trip permit. I took the back roads up there this morning and got my weights with a full tank of gas at 2,440.

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=71473&d=1501452464

Next week I should be able to get my registration complete and start driving a little until it cools down a bit and then I'll start on the body work (or maybe have someone else do it after following srobinsonx2 - he's doing such a great job but it reminds me how much work it actually is!).

Anyway, I'm a happy camper being able to drive it a while and I'll figure out whats next a little later!

[RRussellTx]

So it’s been almost 3 years since my last update…. The latest is that I had a lot of fun driving the car and I have now started the bodywork and paint process.

A little history, I hurried up to get the car titled in 2017 so I could give my buddy with brain cancer some rides while he had time. He was a big Harley guy and had some routes that he really enjoyed. I was able to pick him up a few times and take him along those routes before he passed in 2018. These cars are the BEST memory makers.

After that, I got on the waiting list of one of the painters here and had fun driving the car for a while. After about 16 months on the waiting list, my Dad could not take it anymore and talked me into painting it ourselves (he owned a body shop in the 70’s and has painted several cars at his house since then). I took the car down to his place about 3 hours away last fall and left it there in his garage. I went down for a few weekends but I was not able to get down there as much as I wanted. He is also getting pretty slow and short on energy in his old age so progress was slow. Then the virus hit and that stopped everything.

I was able to get down there when everything opened up in early June and we spent 3 solid weeks working every day for at least a little bit. We were able to get everything fitted, gapped and all of the bodywork done. I trailered the car home from there and now it’s back in my garage (which is also air conditioned now!!)


Things I found while driving:

1. The Edelbrock Air Gap Intake manifold was too tall and made the car run poorly at low RPM’s. It would not cruise at less than 20mph without bucking. Replaced it with the Edelbrock 2181 Performer Intake Manifold and it’s MUCH smoother at low RPMs now.
2. I really did not like the door latches. One of them had broken in the usual place but they both just seemed cheesy. I always thought you could tell the quality of a car by the way the door sounded. I have installed the Breeze Heavy Duty Door Latch Set and love the solid “Click, Click”. I’ll post some pics of that shortly in case anyone is interested.
3. My license plate/light trunk mount is almost 1/2” off center from the F5 drilled trunk handle. This makes the stripe layout interesting…. I’m currently working on installing the Ford Taurus remote trunk latch setup documented by ‘dale’ on the other forum so that I can just cover the hole for the trunk handle and also fix the license plate issue.
4. I have some very slow oil leaks in the 427W that I need to track down.
5. The Battery and Electrical systems seem great. I see posts about how much the Yellow Tops suck and how short the batteries stay up, but I have left it for 6 months and it always acts fully charged.
6. There is a slight tire rub over dips in the road on the right rear body. After looking at it with the body off, the best action is probably to raise the ride height just a smidge.
7. My left knee digs into the door hinge and gets annoying on longer drives. Not sure what I’m going to do there but that’s after paint.
8. LOVE the way it cruises on the highway with the .64 OD.
9. The Breeze radiator shroud does a great job of cooling the engine down. I’ve had it idle for a hot minute in 105 degree heat and the fan never runs for more than 75% of the time.
10. Getting snake bitten from hot pipes is a real thing!
11. Some of my fasteners are showing rust so I’ll be replacing them when the body is off.
12. Picking a color sucks…. (right now its Viper Blue and Abalone White)


Overall, there have been no real issues at all. It took me a while to trust my work but after taking the body off and inspecting everything I know everything is working well.

Here's a shot of Dad starting on the parting lines last December:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=132345&d=1595634803

[RRussellTx]

Here is my solution for the door latches:

I bought the Breeze Heavy Duty Door Latch Set from Mark:
https://www.breezeautomotive.com/shop/heavy-duty-door-latch-set/


The cutting on the door was a bit brutal, but I just opened it up enough to see what I was dealing with and inched it out from there.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=132368&d=1595636268

I also needed to fabricate some brackets to attach the latch to the frame. I just used some bar stock and angle iron. I threaded holes in the bar stock that lined up with the three holes in the latch as a backer so that I could sandwich the angle between the latch and the bar. This generally followed the instructions from Mark. The matching holes in the angle were oversized to give some adjustment.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=132367&d=1595636268

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=132370&d=1595636268

I threaded one hole in the angle iron to bolt through the inside of the door and secure the latch to the door:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=132373&d=1595636268

Turned a temporary striker on the lathe and attached it to the chassis with a dab of Rage Gold:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=132374&d=1595636268

Based on that location, drilled and tapped the chassis and mounted the Breeze Strikers. After all the adjustments were good, filled in the gaps with HSRF cat hair and made a cover plate from 1/8” aluminum. Also used a rivnut in the handle and a shoulder screw as a door handle. I’m looking for a better door handle but this works for now.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=132386&d=1595636268

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=132384&d=1595636268


They really sounds solid and work perfectly. I love it!

[RRussellTx]

For the hood latches, I copied edwardb’s build but used 8-32 weld nuts (McMaster-Carr # 98001A115) secured to the back of the top hood panel with a dab of HSRF. It took a lot of patience and a couple of different shaped tweezers. I used the 8-32 because the head of the flat head screw I picked fit better in the hood latch. In addition to the underside bushing that Edwardb used (I used McMaster-Carr #, 5448T5), I also added a set screw collar (McMaster-Carr # 6058N18), to lock the hood handle in from the bottom against the bushing. Probably belt and suspenders again but it's nice and secure now.

Note, my hood latches are a different orientation than many but I followed the 20th anniversary build photos for my reference. https://www.factoryfive.com/galleries/mk4/20th-anniversary-special-edition-mk4-roadster/

Here is a link to Paul’s post that I referenced: https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?18591-EdwardBs-Mk4-8674-20th-Anniversary-Build&p=259469&viewfull=1#post259469


https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=132752&d=1596159383

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=132753&d=1596159393

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=133993&d=1598017187

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=133994&d=1598017335

[RRussellTx]

Big milestone for me. I finally finished the bodywork and Slick Sand Phase. Dust is everywhere!

I feel pretty good about where it’s at now. I got all of the pinholes and imperfections filled in with the Metal Glaze Ultra. That stuff is really easy to sand but it sure kicks fast. I spent quite a bit of time trying to get everything right up to this point to save headaches later.

I keep thinking about a diagram that shows the level of quality you want to reach, your capability/talent level and how long a job takes. At some point, you just have to call it good enough!

I’ve been sidetracked a couple of times over the past few months but I was able to get the garage setup for spraying before I started the Slick Sand. I installed a separate Dryer just for spraying and blowing off the car.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=133967&d=1597963510

I also get my paint shaker back out and setup although this one gave out on the third can of Slick Sand and I had to buy a new one.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=133961&d=1597963344

I also built some filter boxes for my garage doors. I have a two car garage door on the North side and a one car door on the South side. The neighbor down the street has a bounce house and I was able to borrow his blower for the inbound air and I bought a couple of HF air movers for the outbound side. Used some old Malt Extract buckets and garbage bags for ducting. The setup worked very well keeping the airflow moving through the garage.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=133959&d=1597963311

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=133955&d=1597963225

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=133957&d=1597963256




Went to the PPG guys earlier in the week – that definitely hurt!

Paint
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=135623&d=1601227143


Sanding was some dusty business! I’m working on cleaning up the garage and prepping the garage to spray primer again.

Dust
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=135625&d=1601227169

[RRussellTx]

Paint is on! It was a 30 hour affair but it’s done. I don’t like to get in a hurry in the garage so I just took my time and tried to fix what I could at the time before moving ahead. I think I had an issue with something in the air supply but I’m not sure. As a result, I have a bit of fisheye to clean up as well as some bug DNA to deal with. I had a good quality filter with a brand new cartridge so I’m not 100% sure where the fisheye came from but it’s done so it is what it is.

I love the colors but they were pretty complicated for a first timer. No major sags but my technique is not as consistent as it needed to be at 3:00 am when I was spraying the blue. I think I let it get too wet in spots so I have some faint mottling in areas that I either need to live with or fix. It takes a certain kind of light to see it but it’s there…

I was able to get it out in the sun early this morning before the clouds rolled in and get a couple of shots. Did I mention I love these colors! They both have so many dimensions in the different light settings. In low light, the blue is just blue and the white is just white. But when you get them out in the sun, which is the generally when I’ll be driving it, the blue really comes alive and white will not be outdone. It may be ‘Just Another Cobra’ but I love it!


https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=136371&d=1602778818

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=136374&d=1602778864



Out in the sun. Scoop shot was yesterday in the sun before I started striping. These colors really confuse the iPhone camera so it was hard to get a shot that shows how much the color pops.


https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=136377&d=1602779023

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=136376&d=1602778983

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=136378&d=1602779389

[Railroad]

Just to complicate things for me, how about posting what color blue that is. I know you have it somewhere in thread, but figured you would not mind posting, since you think you like the color, just joking. I think it looks great too.

[RRussellTx]

Just to complicate things for me how about posting what color blue that is. I know you have it somewhere in thread, but figured you would not mind posting, since you think you like the color, just joking. I think it looks great too.


Sure thing. It's the early Viper Blue. The white I picked was called Abalone White but its the same Paint Code as is available on some 2020 GM cars. I think that one is called Iridescent Pearl. Here is a shot of the paint labels.

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=136375&d=1602778885

[Blitzboy54]

Just beautiful, congratulations on doing the paint yourself. I'm guessing you saved thousands and it looks amazing. Can't wait to see it put back on.

[GoDadGo]

_I Can Almost Smell Paint Fumes All The Way Over Hear Near NOLA!

You're braver than I was because I chickened out at the painting portion of the build!

[KDubU]

Very nice! Those are nice colors.

[RRussellTx]

Just beautiful, congratulations on doing the paint yourself. I'm guessing you saved thousands and it looks amazing. Can't wait to see it put back on.

I'm sure everyone is different, but I probably did not save much money at all. I bought a nice paint gun and a primer gun, quality air filters and new hoses, way too much paint because I was not sure and wanted to be on the safe side, all the air movers and booth filters and floor coverings etc. The list goes on, but for me it was more of a 'Built not Bought' decision. I've never worried about time or money on my project. I just consider it a hobby like an avid golfer might have and I just spread the cost over time and don't worry about it.

I would get a good plan if anyone wants to paint it themselves in order to save money. Include the amount of work and aggravation because it's not trivial. Cleanup alone is an ordeal. I have a Crawfish Boil every year with about 125 people over at the house and I'd rather cleanup after 3 of those than one paint job.

Also, I may have to wait a while for it to get on the car. My honey-do-list is backed up pretty good at this point!

[RRussellTx]

_I Can Almost Smell Paint Fumes All The Way Over Hear Near NOLA!

You're braver than I was because I chickened out at the painting portion of the build!

Thanks GoDad,

I don't blame you! You would have had to deal with all those Hurricanes in the middle of the process!

My Grandfather worked a NASA in your neck of the woods for many years before he retired in Pass Christian, MS. He passed away a few years after Katrina but he loved the area. I also lived in Lake Charles for couple of years on a project. I LOVE the food and fishing down there. I always tell people that there are pros and cons everywhere you go, they are just a little more drastic in Louisiana!

Take care!

[Blitzboy54]

I'm sure everyone is different, but I probably did not save much money at all. I bought a nice paint gun and a primer gun, quality air filters and new hoses, way too much paint because I was not sure and wanted to be on the safe side, all the air movers and booth filters and floor coverings etc. The list goes on, but for me it was more of a 'Built not Bought' decision. I've never worried about time or money on my project. I just consider it a hobby like an avid golfer might have and I just spread the cost over time and don't worry about it.

I would get a good plan if anyone wants to paint it themselves in order to save money. Include the amount of work and aggravation because it's not trivial. Cleanup alone is an ordeal. I have a Crawfish Boil every year with about 125 people over at the house and I'd rather cleanup after 3 of those than one paint job.

Also, I may have to wait a while for it to get on the car. My honey-do-list is backed up pretty good at this point!

That makes a lot of sense actually. My plan is to do all the body work and prep then have a pro shoot it. Also I enjoyed reading your story. My condolences on your friend. You did the right thing.

I host a block party every May roughly the same number of people. Your analogy definitely helped put it in perspective for me. :)

[Jeff Kleiner]

You done good!

Now comes the "fun" part; cut & buff ;)

Jeff

[RRussellTx]

You done good!

Now comes the "fun" part; cut & buff ;)

Jeff

Yep, Amazon should be here any minute with a whole new batch of sanding and polishing supplies.

I believe that the PPG Concept 2021 Clear is not one of those that gets super hard, super fast so I'm going to take my time (like no hurry at all). I don't want that clear too soft anyway to keep me out of trouble. I'm not afraid of a little extra work as long as I can take my time with it.

[RRussellTx]

That makes a lot of sense actually. My plan is to do all the body work and prep then have a pro shoot it. Also I enjoyed reading your story. My condolences on your friend. You did the right thing. )

Good plan having someone shoot it!

Thanks for the condolences on my buddy Ron. He was a good man and a good friend. He served in Desert Storm and married his wife when he got home. She told a story at the funeral that she never opened a door when he was with her and in 27 years she never put a drop of gas in her car. He treated her like a princess.

[RRussellTx]

Update:


The cut & buff has NOT been very much ‘fun’!
But the body is done!

First, I had a couple of spots that I was not happy with and had to prep and respray them. Then I had a spot where I sanded through and had to respray that. My spraying skills are improving but I’m always nervous that I’m about to sand through again...

Anyway, I have finally gotten the body the way I like it. I found the Trizact 8000 sand paper works really well for the final sanding. I was able to sand all of the tight curves and openings by hand and not have any sand scratches left and then do the final polish by hand without too much effort.

Like everything else on this project, it seems so much easier AFTER I have done it.

Next up is the hood and trunk…

Hopefully this will go much faster!

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=147455&d=1620337941

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=147456&d=1620337964

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=147458&d=1620337994

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=147457&d=1620337977

[Railroad]

Looking great. I am hopefully on the short list for Jeff K to do his thing.

[RRussellTx]

I’m driving again!

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=149358&d=1623373023

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=149359&d=1623373023

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=149344&d=1623372330

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=149345&d=1623372330

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=149346&d=1623372330

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=149340&d=1623372282

[Straversi]

Wow, fantastic work. Congratulations. My hats off to anyone who tackles paint themselves. Well done. Love those colors too.
-Steve

[Walt]

Very nice, now enjoy!!

[GoDadGo]

C O N G R A T U L A T I O N S !
.You should be very proud of your accomplishment.

[RRussellTx]

I entered my first car show yesterday. It was a local show and I would guess there were between 100 and 150 cars/motorcycles there. I think I had the only replica car there but they had a little bit of everything else as well.

I took my oldest daughter who loves cars and is headed off to college later this month. We had a lot of fun and she learned a lot from the other car owners. They were all great about sharing info about their cars and she was genuinely interested in all the details.

We won the Best in Show - Venue’s Choice Award!

They put us in the Special Interest category up against some pretty interesting vehicles. I’m curious, for those of you that enter these local shows, what category do these cars normally go in?

The usual first question when folks stopped and asked about the car was ‘did you build it?” They were impressed when I told them “Yes” but if they kept asking questions and figured out that I painted it myself they were REALLY impressed. So much so, that by the end of the show my daughter was telling everyone that came around ‘He painted it himself!”

Pretty cool to see your kid that proud of you! - Built not Bought!

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=151487&d=1627831191

[mbisett]

Beautiful - nice work!

[M. Townsend]

You made Texas a bit more beautiful. Thanks for sharing your journey.

[mlewis]

Awesome Car!!

Special time with your daughter.

Priceless.

[GoDadGo]

Well Done & Definitely Deserved!