Feasibility of a roadster project for a non gearhead

[Amiroquai]

Hello everyone,

First, let me say that I love reading the threads on this forum. Watching and following the progress of your projects is inspiring!
Now, back to me. I am a guy in his mid 30's who has always adored the styling on the Cobra and (older) 911s. During the past year, I've been seriously entertaining the notion of building my own Cobra replica and Factory Five seems like the only way to go.

I have formal education in Industrial Design. I have worked before as a machinist/engineer where I would use Solidworks to design parts for CNC fabrication and sometime even fabricated myself using a milling machine. This was work was mainly for light 30 piece metal assemblies that included air cylinders and conveyor belts. I have a good eye for design, and solid logic when it comes to how things work and how to use various tools. However, I do not have any practical/theoretical experience with car mechanics.

From your experience in car mechanics, how feasible would a roadster build project be for me? =Either way, before I pull the trigger, I would attend the Factory Five school to get a better understanding of what I would be dealing with. But any feedback at this time would still be greatly appreciated. I would not want to buy a turn-key completed replica as I believe the building experience would give me a lot of insight and joy.

Also, how financially feasible is it to build a Coyote engine roadster under $30k total?

Thanks for your input!

[DaleG]

No problem. If you attend the build school, that's a plus. As long as you can follow directions, and not be intimidated asking for help, you will be fine. If some aspects are above your pay grade (as many are with me), just ask for help, or, in extreme cases go to your local mechanic.

To make it a bit easier, I suggest the Complete Kit; its a more focused approach, fewer decisions to make, and pretty straight-forward for a non-gearhead. I've done both (first the Base kit and now the Complete kit). With the base kit, I would not have survived the project without my gearhead son helping/advising/teaching. With that one under my/our belt I then tackled the Complete kit alone, only running into the issues common to all of our builds; there are great mentors here to walk you through these issues.

Welcome and good luck!

Cheers, Dale

Oh, where are you located?

[chopthebass]

I am a non-gearhead but have learned so many things from the Forum members. I am no longer afraid to post what I consider a dumb question. Everyone has to learn at some point.
The build manual can be vague about some things, and mine was out of date pretty quick, and I had no idea that revisions were available (clutch quadrant is one!).

There's no rush to complete the kit, so you have plenty of time to figure stuff out and consult the guys here.

Not sure a complete kit based on Coyote engine for $30k is possible, unless you can salvage an engine and tranny cheap. There are many other Coyote builders here who can better advise.

Cheers,
Ian

[MPTech]

Depends on you definition of a gearhead.
To me, a gearhead is someone with a strong passion for cars. A gearhead doesn't have to be a mechanic. And you sound like a gearhead!
I think a non-mechanic can build one, I did! I'm an IT Project Manager, but I love cars and had the desire to build my own.

To me, more importantly are Problem-solving skills and persistence! You will get frustrated at times, just put the tools down and walk away until your head clears. Might be an hour, a day, or couple weeks. But don't work on it when you're frustrated. Post your problem here, I seriously doubt that you will encounter anything with the build that has not been resolved here already.
It's a great and rewarding challenge. If you're a gearhead, you will love the build, the pride, and driving experience!

I'd say a Coyote build for $30k would be really tough to achieve.
If you figure a complete kit for $20k and a Coyote and all the wiring and such is roughly $10k. You still need tires, trans, rear-end and paint!

[edwardb]

First, welcome. Based on what you're describing about yourself, I think you could do it. Going to the build school is a great barometer to decide for sure. I agree that mechanical aptitude is important. But maybe just as important is perseverance, problem solving, determination, etc. There's no way around it. These are a lot of work. Guys with a lot of experience or that have built a number of them can get it down into the few hundred hour range. But for the rest of us, especially the first time around, that's not realistic and you should be prepared for that. These are custom built cars, and there are going to challenges along the way. I don't have any statistics, and not sure there really are any, but some percentage of these never get done (at least by the original buyer) because they ran out of time, patience, or even interest. It's a journey. One that I personally really enjoy and sounds like you would too. But be realistic about what you're getting into.

Regarding budget, I also don't think a Coyote based Roadster can be built for $30K. All the pieces and parts required to do a Coyote + TKO transmission (recommended) are going to be in the the $12 - 13K range for new. Add to that the kit, wheels, tires, rear axle and brakes, and (our personal favorite) paint, and you're well over your target. Yes there are used Coyote's out there. I personally haven't shopped for one, but I've heard they are still pretty expensive. To hit a $30K budget, you're going to need to think about a donor build or at the very least looking at other options for the engine/drivetrain. Additionally, you're probably looking at a solid axle (3-link) rear end, and some creative options for paint.

One final comment, and I've said this a bunch of times but hopefully you haven't heard it since you just joined. If you've been spending time on this forum (and hopefully the other one as well, even more traffic) you will find that much of the dialogue is about modifications, changes, additions, etc. I'm just as much a part of that as most. It would be easy to get the impression that all of this is "required" to have a quality build. It's not. A stock build -- and I've seen a number of them -- built just the way it's outlined in the FF build manual with good workmanship is a quality product and one that you will love driving and owning. I will add that you won't come close to your target budget if you go too far down this road. You will need to keep it pretty stock.

Hope this helps, and good luck with whatever you decide.

[skullandbones]

It would be a real challenge, I think, to build the roadster for sub 30k with a crate engine like the Coyote. I am barely sub 30k with a remanufactured crate engine of the old vintage (sbf). I am using the complete kit as the measuring stick.

As far as your ability to put one of these projects together: sounds like you would be more than qualified. I like your background more than if you said you were a mechanic for 20 years. One of the things that makes these special is the eye for detail and the understanding of what makes them work (you just need more time on the forum for that). So you should be golden.

Good luck on your decision and welcome to the forum,

WEK.

[68GT500MAN]

Welcome to the forum. Your question has been pretty well answered before this post. I always tell a new builder to look at this project as a full size plastic model. Attack one part at a time front end, rear end, brakes, etc. and before long you will be looking at a complete roadster you can drive! I just started at page one in the assembly manual (I know, you will see a LOT of discussion about the manual) and had fun.
Doug

[ram_g]

You've already got your answers but let me summarize:
- yes (you can do it)
- no (under $30k)

[6t8dart]

I agree, under $30K with a coyote is a no.

I have a lot of car building experience, but I am just starting a MKIV roadster, having just completed the inventory, and acquiring the parts. I am amazed that I truly don't think I will have to buy a single bolt, nut, screw, or electrical connector.


1. Buy a complete kit! Get as much as you can from FFR, get all the powder coat, and pre-finished options you can.

2. Buy a complete engine and transmission combo from someone like Forte. I recommend a 347 with a 5 speed, stick an EZEFI on it and you have a car that can go everywhere.

3. Go to a build school.

4. Get help. Find someone local who is building or has built a kit, I would be happy to answer questions or come over to help if you were close. There are a lot FFR's out there and most everyone is willing to help.
If you stick with a non coyote engine, get a complete kit, keep the option list short, $30K is possible without the paint

[Jazzman]

I have less experience than you in fabrication, but I just placed my order for my complete kit yesterday. The company, the service, the instruction, the support, and most importantly the supportive people on this forum have given me the confidence to know for sure that I can do this! Check out the beginning of my build thread:

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?18548-Jazzman’s-not-quite-a-20th-Anniversary-Build-Thread-If-I-can-do-this-anyone-can!&p=207028#post207028

Enough others have said it, but no, I don't think the budget is realistic. Mine is substantially north of that number, though you certainly do not have to be. Spend time on the forums. Ask questions. Begin a Build plan, even though you will change it a thousand times. You can learn plenty just by reading the build threads. You can do this!

[KDubU]

I'm also not a 'gear-head' but love cars. I make a living in IT helping out multi-million to billion dollar clients and that does not intimidate me. I have built two homes with only my brother as help, did not intimidate me. Now building the roadster, yes I am a bit intimidated but pushing oneself is what life is all about. Will I get stuck on something, yes likely many times but I like to figure things out and as long as my stubbornness of learning myself doesn't get in the way of asking questions on here, I should be good. There are some awesome guys on here who I don't know or ever met and yet they always respond, that is invaluable and like others, I'll have to buy them a beer or two when/if I ever meet them.

As for the $30k, as others have stated that is not feasible. Complete kit is $20k and you need engine, tranny, wheels, tires and paint.

[JL1958]

I'm a gear head, but not a mechanic. I bought my gorgeous MKII finished and after having it a couple of years, I know what options I want in my next one.
Once I retire, I am ordering a complete kit and building my next one. There are too many things I want to try to retrofit this one.
I will attend the build school and rely on this forum, and I know it will be difficult, but I am confident I can do it.
Grandmothers love hot cars too. :)

[Amiroquai]

Wow. Didn't expect this kind of support and welcoming!
Thank you all for your valuable input. I feel confident I can pull this build off with help from this forum and local mechanics as needed.
Thanks again for the help. I look forward to sharing my progress and consulting with you once I pull the trigger on this build!

Dale - I live in Westchester, NY.

[carlewms]

My two cents ...

Apply the KISS principal ... buy the complete kit and source the motor, transmission, etc. from Forte or Levy or one of the vendors that know these cars. The IRS is nice and a choice I went with but it does add considerable cost to the base complete kit.

Try to take advantage of the sales they have ... sometimes the offer 50% off on all options when you order your kit.

These forums are an excellent source of additional help ... when you get stuck and you will ... these folks are more than willing to point you in the right direction.

As in anything in life there will be good days and bad ones ... after about 2 years of progress on my Mk 4 the good ones far outweigh the bad ones.

Carl

[jakester888]

Let me be perhaps the first to say : I think you have more experience than me. I am a complete novice at this stuff and after thinking about the car since 1995 and attending the build school in 2005 and finally buying the kit in 2011... now I have a running car in 2015.

It was damn hard. And I had to buy lots of tools I didn't know existed. And I made tons of mistakes. I feel lucky I didn't blow myself up. But this forum saved me many times as did FFCars as well as YOUTUBE and Mustang websites.

Lessons:
1) Don't go the donor route.
2) Beer & pizza = build parties... very helpful.
3) No question is too stupid. The guys on this forum are really great.
4) Find a local group and get on their mailing list. Hang out with them.

441024410344104

[bil1024]

Wow. Didn't expect this kind of support and welcoming!
Thank you all for your valuable input. I feel confident I can pull this build off with help from this forum and local mechanics as needed.
Thanks again for the help. I look forward to sharing my progress and consulting with you once I pull the trigger on this build!

Dale - I live in Westchester, NY.

Dale I am in Orange County, and there a lot of us around that can help! Just let us know

[CraigS]

You can do it not problem. Simplify and go w/ a mild 302 and a T5. It will be less expensive and much less complex. Drive the car in the red gelcoat for a year or two and then have it painted so you can spread out that large cost. If you do all the door,trunk,hood fitting and trimming wheel wells etc, any decent painter can paint it, body on the car, fairly reasonably.

[289FIA_Cobra]

I think anyone that has a desire to learn how to use a torque wrench, figure out electrical connections/read schematics, abides by measure twice (or thrice), and cut once, and learn to fix plumbing issues, has a great chance in completing a FFR. I come from 30 years in IT (called Data Processing back in the day) but always 'tinkered' with car. As I got older, more income, I modified my cars, mostly bolt on, so when the time came for an entire car, you take time to 'plan' out the build because unlike anything else I did, this car comes with a bare chassis, a fiberglass body and 20+boxes. The most valuable tool is right here (and ffcars.com).

My website goes through this process and the initial months of my journal, shows how much planning was done BEFORE I ordered the kit. http://home.comcast.net/~289fia_cobra/journals.htm

But for a Coyote engine, that $30K is not likely to happen. My carb build was already $38K before the little things started to creep in (new cylinder heads, new carb, chroming rollbars, new radiator setup...). I 'finished' at around $45K, which is what my appraiser figured it to be. The only thing that could make it cheaper is to get a "newly wrecked" 2014 Mustang with low miles and try to low-ball the engine and computer(s), but the reality is, even if you could, it's all those things that allow us to customize our cars, that eats into a budget. If you being to surf into Forte's, Breeze Automotize, Levy, etc., you'll soon find your eyes are bigger than your wallet.... I know!
Good luck.

[METAL C6R]

Amiroquai,

I feel quite in the same boat as yourself. I am committed to building a 65 Coupe, but I probably sound like a broken record in all my posts. I am not in a position to start a car project. No tools & no space. Therefore, all I can offer is just theoretical concepts and ideas. Not very useful, sadly.

This project is very intimidating at first. But take it step for step, get yourself a checklist. and just go to town. I have spent far more time researching this than I would like to admit. Because all I have right now is time and ideas.
But from the general consensus of previous posts & builds as well as the friendly people on here. The closer you keep it to the complete kit as you can. The easier and faster it seems your build will be.

Though, personally I am going the hard route.... just because. :)

[Erik W. Treves]

FWIW....we all started somewhere.....I built my first roadster only ever have changed oil in a car.... I did learn how to tear down a Harley motor(1988 year model)...and did some customizing....had never put a clutch in a car or did a brake job....was my first car perfect....no...but it was my daily driver for 9 years!! I even manage to rebuild it...and then it was perfect....and then ... I sold it.... and built another....it was perfect too.... I sold it.... and built another....it was perfect too..... you get the idea.... :)

[BEAR-AvHistory]

Some random thoughts

All new parts you can't do a Coyote for $30K. Base complete kit $20K, Coyote engine package with clutch-transmission $12/13K will put you pretty much on the budget numbers.

Add at a minimum

Wheels/Tires $2K
Rearend $2K
Delivery $1K
odds & ends ?

Big kicker is body finishing & painting. Lots of threads on this but mine was $7500 + an extra $300 (non standard paint) but regardless its not cheap either Pro painted or DIY.

If I had been tied into a tight budget a lot can be saved on being realistic on the engine trans packages $6/7K or so for 345hp. The car is very lite & very fast on anything over 300hp. The early originals were only rated @ 260hp

All said & done your build will take 9-10 months if you devote a lot of time to it. Mine delivery to driving was 13 months. This gives you time to streatch your budget over a few years.

The main thing & first thing is to be honest with yourself about whether or not you are the kind of person who can stick to a project over what may be a long haul with any number of frustrations along the way.

[ricobrafan]

I have not seen this option posted but it is the route that I took. I brought a completed car (MKII) that needed some updates. I have owned the car for 4 years now and I get to enjoy the car in the driving months and update the car in the winter... projects included new front UCA, LCA's and brakes, alum radiator and degas tank, 3-link with coilovers, footbox vent kit, etc., etc. I can take my time, do the research and now the car is my own and the best part is I am in it for a lot less than I would have spent building it from scratch and I did not have a long delay in build time... Just my take on the those who question, time, money or skills. ENJOY THE RIDE! I AM.

[Raceral]

Seems you have a lot of great advice. I too had never done anything like this.. I had help with wiring and got Whitbys to paint. Go the non donor route and I would go with a carbed motor for the first time builder.. Have you a wiring helper waiting in the wings.. that was the hardest part.
With the help of the forum and a few tools , you can do it..
You WILL acquire some new friends, trust me.

[R Thomas]

This may seem way off target initially but consider it. If you have mastered Solidworks and CNC I'm sure the kit is in your wheelhouse. What might be your biggest issue is adult perfectionism. To explain that when I built model cars as a kid I loved it, not sure what the glue contributed there. So when I was travelling a lot on business I thought I might try it again as a diversion while in hotels away from home. It didn't work at all because my adult vision wanted everything better than my skills or patience could produce. That's relevant because you can become obsessive to the point of ruining all the fun in the build process. I think if you approach the build as a learning experience rather than building a work of art it will go much better and be much easier. I have seen some amazing cars pictures on this site I hope mine ends up looking half as good.

[smithbks]

I couldn't resist offering my two cents! I am not a gear head. My dad taught me how to change the brakes, and do other maintenance items but I'd never done engine work. But he taught me I could do anything I set my mind to and I'm really good at reading directions and doing research first. On my daily driver I have had plenty of opportunities to do everything from exhaust to engine work during this build - not what I expected, but I did it. That gave me even more confidence.

Sorry for that long intro - the point is you can do it if you have some ability (sounds like you do) and are willing to research and work at it. The directions aren't perfect, but they are darn good and you can usually figure out the rest with the forum. I did some mods, but they aren't required. As for the budget...well...I didn't do so well there. The engine killed me because I went with a powerful 427. I don't think you could build AND paint it for $30k and be happy. Guys will disagree, and that's ok.

I'd say go for it. Building and owning a Cobra is a childhood dream of mine and the fulfillment of that is one of the coolest things ever. No regrets!

Just stay connected to the forum and you'll be fine.