View Full Version : Al C's MK4 Coyote Build
So here we are. Arrival is imminent; it’s time to start the “official” build log. Many of you have heard all or parts of this before, in person or on this forum, but for the sake of having a complete record, allow me to start at the beginning.
My wife and I started thinking about what we’re going to do when we retire. It didn’t take a lot of exploring to come to the FFR conclusion. Well, for me anyway. Not sure this was ever on her radar screen. A little encouragement from a few friends and with spousal approval the die was cast. Then the ultimate question came to mind: why wait another couple of years? Why not start now? The planning started mid-2014. I started lurking on the forum in July and joined in August, 2014. The planning went into high gear in the early fall. By the spring, I had a pretty good idea what I wanted. All it took was a trip to Huntington Beach in April, 2015 and the project was set!
Here’s the plan, and the thinking behind each component. (If you aren’t interested in my thought process, you’re welcome to skip this part…)
Roadster. I mean, really, was there ever any question? I want new parts, so the complete kit made the most sense. Acquiring and dismantling a Mustang was never part of the plan. It’s easier this way.
Powder coated frame. Little debate here. Seems like a no-brainer.
Cutouts. I’ve heard different perspectives on this one, too. I decided to roll with it. If the hole’s in the wrong place we can always glass over it. Maybe “glass” isn’t the correct term here, but you know what I mean…
Ford Coyote. I debated the engine choice endlessly. I had a number of people promoting the small block concept. However, I wanted new technology, and the “cool” factor the Coyote offers. Tony from the FFR tech team helped to convince me, reporting that new sheet metal offers significant improvements in the footbox. I sat in a few, and it’s all good. We’re looking at an engine that will be somewhere around 412 – 420 HP. That fits in my sweet spot. I need to sell some more software before I pull the trigger on this component, but that shouldn’t take too much longer. Realistically, I’m not going to be ready to install an engine before the fall, so there isn’t that much of a hurry anyway.
Tremec TKO-600. Choosing the Coyote pushed me (in my mind) beyond the limits of a T-5. Might as well put in a transmission that can handle the torque. Coming out of the Volvo community, I have seen way too many people modify and tune their engines to the point where the transmissions and Haldex systems couldn’t handle the power - and then whine when they would break parts. Angle gears were a common complaint. C’mon people – think about it!
IRS. Independent rear suspension just makes so much more sense to me. What more is there to say? Actually, what is to say is that I need to order the pumpkin and a few other parts pretty soon.
17” wheels. I like big brakes. Big brakes and 15 inch wheels aren’t always compatible. I know, the car only weighs 2400 lbs., and has brakes designed for a much heavier vehicle, but I like big brakes. The Volvo has Brembos on it and they work really well. It’s a little easier to find tires to fit 17 inch wheels than it is to fit 15 inchers, too. If I was going to go for a period look, I would need to go with 15 inch, but since I chose a 21st century powerplant I might as well go with different wheels. I really like the 18” idea, but the cost tradeoff wasn’t worth it. So, we have 17X9 in the front, and 17X10.5 in the rear. Should be fun.
Tires. I rely on my buddy Ken for recommendations, so I’ve basically outsourced the task of choosing the best option here. Likely will be 245/45 – R17 up front; 315/35 – R17 in the rear.
Dual roll bars. No, this isn’t traditional. It’s the logical answer to the question, “what? I don’t get my own roll bar?” (see Spousal approval above)
Wilwood brake upgrade. There was a fair amount of debate on brakes – other than the fact that I like big ones. I have seen a few cars where anti-lock brakes were installed. I was thinking in those terms. I even posted a question about it that got way more attention than I expected. The result: probably not necessary, but if I do decide at some point to install them, at least I know that the Wilwood’s will support ABS. See commentary on wheels above. One last sane remark on ABS. Why do I like them? They’re really good on slippery surfaces. Am I going to drive the roadster in rainy, snowy or icy conditions? No. So tell me again why I need ABS?
Big and tall seats. I am not a small person. These seats work. End of discussion.
Wind wings. Seemed like a good idea. With the 50% off sale going on, it only made sense to pull the trigger now.
Visors. See wind wings. I can always take them off if they don’t look good. Btw – I drive east to go to work, and west to go home. The sun is always in my eyes. Unless it’s still raining.
Wipers. One of these days, it might stop raining in Illinois. Until that happens, wipers are a good idea. Besides, I’m not sure I can register the car without wipers in this state. Try as I will, I can guarantee you that at some point we will get caught in the rain. At that moment, we will look at each other and ask “why didn’t we get wipers for the inside, too?”
Heater. I debated this item. The presence of the heater pretty much precludes having any useful glove box, but the absence of the heater limits the season. Seat heaters are nice, but they don’t do much for your feet. We both like warm feet. Heater got included.
Over-riders. Originally, I was thinking of just the quick jacks. Then, after looking at a lot of cars, I decided I like the over-riders only look rather than the full bumper look. Not that those bumpers would offer much protection anyway.
Stainless side pipes. In my mind, they look better. At least with the probable color scheme, they look better. And, they’ll match the chromed roll bars. I seriously considered heat shields, but decided against those. Even with the shields, I think you can still get burned. It’s an easy fix to learn the right way to get in and out of the car…
Power steering. Another item that resulted in spirited input from forum members. The “yes” votes won. I’m thinking the 3.0 turns lock-to-lock set up.
Cold air vents for the footboxes. Chris, Lee, and Kevin sold me on that idea. I’m sure there will be other customizations. Why plan them all now when it makes sense? It’s much more fun to try to do something last minute when you have to undo stuff to make something else fit!
Color? I’ve gone back and forth on this topic. It will be fun to look back on this writing after the project is completed and painted. The candidates? Burgundy with white or cream stripes, Green with undetermined stripe, or navy blue with white or gold stripes. I prefer the darker shades (burgundy vs. red; navy vs. guardian blue). Still need to figure out who’s doing the painting and who’s doing the body work (me or the painter…).
I registered for Build School, and will be there in August. I’m looking forward to that weekend.
Thanks to the 20th anniversary 50/50 sale, I dove in on May 8, 2015. My “ready for pickup” date was June 27. Nevertheless, the waiting isn’t over. Depending on Stewart, it should be delivered in the next week or so. It was supposed to arrive this week, but apparently the truck had an accident on the way to the factory. It is definitely time to get the garage in order. Tasks to be completed prior to arrival:
1. Clean the garage. Seems pretty straightforward, right? You’d be amazed at how much miscellaneous stuff accumulates. As of July 3: done.
2. Fix the floor. I painted the floor last fall in anticipation of this project. That effort was a little less than successful. In hindsight, I should have applied two coats of epoxy instead of one. The good news is that the folks at Rust-Oleum provided me with a patch kit that fixed up the spots that wore out or bubbled. As it turns out, research shows that the consumer DIY kits result in a 3 mil epoxy surface. Not much on a garage floor. Even when you follow the preparation instructions, you stand a pretty good chance that something will go wrong if you only apply one coat. Tell me again why I didn’t know this before? I’ll leave it as patched until the roadster is completed, then re-do it so the completed car has a nice clean floor to sit on. As of July 1: done.
3. Assemble the engine lift. My wife knew I was committed when she saw the lift delivered to our driveway. It’s been sitting in a corner of the garage patiently waiting assembly for a number of months. Most of the assembly is done, but it takes up less space in its current form. It’s time will be here soon enough!
4. Modify the body buck. I’m the beneficiary of Chris Russell’s body buck. He has lots of space in his hangar; I don’t. I need to modify the buck so it goes over the frame. I am doing my build in half of the two-car garage. Part of the deal was that Nancy gets to keep her car inside. It looks like I’ll only need a few 2X4’s and some bigger casters. More on this later.
5. Get some more lighting installed. I need to put in another fluorescent fixture. It will be easier to install that without the car in the way. Planned: July 11.
Here’s another interesting aspect of this project: a lot of people are interested. Fascinated, even. People who are not even connected to the FFR community. It’s like the arrival of a new child – there’s a rather long list of people I have to notify when “the baby” arrives! Ted, Matt, Ken, Joe, Patt, Joe S., Mark, John, Ben, and others. And that doesn’t count the forum! Next update? When I hear from Stewart.
edwardb
07-08-2015, 07:52 PM
Welcome! And congratulations on your imminent kit delivery. You're about to start an amazing journey. I was pretty much where you're at now in 2009. It's been a blast. I'm about to start my third build. I love the driving, and we have a great local club that we enjoy very much. But I also truly enjoy the planning and building part. Your build plan is very thorough and obviously well thought out. You should get a great final product. Just a couple of minor thoughts/observations (even though I know you didn't ask...).
Going with a complete kit is a great idea, and one that I regularly recommend for first time builders. But just a point of clarification, a base kit doesn't automatically mean a Mustang donor. Many non-donor builds are done from base kits. Guys just like to pick their own completion parts.
The FF body cutouts get a lot of dialogue on the forum, which you've obviously seen. Let me encourage you. Most are purposely undersized and require some adjustment to fit your specific build. But it's not hard to do, and I would be very surprised if you have to actually get out the resin/cloth and patch anything.
Many, myself included, go up to 255/40ZR17 tires for the front. They match well with the 315/35ZR17 tires you indicate for the rear, and easily fit the 9 inch front wheels. 245's are OK, but 255's are very popular for good reasons. Just something for you to consider.
I understand and appreciate your decision about a heater, and agree it's pretty much a trade-off between either a heater or a glovebox. There are some very shallow glovebox varieties that will fit with a heater. But they are mainly for appearance IMO and don't really have much practical value. It's also possible to move everything forward (firewall, heater, etc.) and make room behind for a glovebox. But this starts getting a little complicated and maybe for a first time builder not a good idea. Especially since the Coyote is a pretty tight fit anyway. But just let me tell you (and our weather over here in SE Michigan is about a carbon copy of your weather in Wheaton, just a day later) your face, ears, hands, etc. will get cold a long time before your feet do. And a heater doesn't help too much up there. Not saying it doesn't make things more comfortable, I'm honestly just not sure that a heater really extends the driving season as you suggest. When it's cold it's just cold to drive no matter what and it's really not much fun. Just trying to set expectations. Now if a top is in your future, then the story completely changes. With a top and a heater (and defroster) your driving season definitely will be longer in the fall and start earlier in the spring. Even with a heater, I would still recommend at least considering the seat heaters. I like them, and my wife loves them. If it's even a bit cool, she has hers on. An easy add while you're building.
Again, congratulations and good luck! We're here to help and as you've already found out aren't lacking in opinions. ;)
CraigS
07-12-2015, 09:14 AM
Welcome. You have a ton of fun ahead of you. I agree w/ Edwardb on the 255s, a top in the future,etc. One thing to do a lot of talking and researching on is gear ratios specific to your engine. The TKO 600 has two 5th ratios and (I believe) two 1st ratios available. Then there is diff ratio. W/ the power to weight of the car nearly anything will work but some combinations will be more pleasing than others.
2bking
07-12-2015, 12:26 PM
Congratulations on your coming kit. I too like the look of the Coyote and its been fun building around it. The Stainless Headers are a work of art and fit very well; I recommend them. Some have said FFR redesigned the sheet metal for this engine and others didn't think it was changed much at all. When you get your kit, check out the clearances for the engine and pedal room in the foot box. If you think there can be improvement, there are some other options.
I know that the Wilwood’s will support ABS. One last sane remark on ABS. Why do I like them? They’re really good on slippery surfaces. Am I going to drive the roadster in rainy, snowy or icy conditions? No. So tell me again why I need ABS?
The sun is always in my eyes. Unless it’s still raining.
Wipers. One of these days, it might stop raining in Illinois. Until that happens, wipers are a good idea. Besides, I’m not sure I can register the car without wipers in this state. Try as I will, I can guarantee you that at some point we will get caught in the rain.
"So tell me again why I need ABS?" ..... I think you answered your own question.
DaleG
07-12-2015, 12:51 PM
Welcome Al, you are in for a lot of fun, a little frustration, and lots of available help from the forums. Upfront advice....use King's footbox mod for the Coyote; use 3/8" spacers at the engine mounts, and opt for the Stainless (now offered by a spin-off organization, I believe) headers.
Cheers, Dale
BEAR-AvHistory
07-12-2015, 08:19 PM
Happy to hear its underway, best of luck. Agree with the others on 255's up front. Very good match to the 315's out back. Maybe think a bit more on the heat shields for the pipes. I have only been stung once, StingRay hooker side pipes, around 1968 & have been careful ever since. That said I have the shields for anyone who might ride in or get to close looking at it.
Gumball
07-13-2015, 10:17 AM
Al - Congratulations... let me know when delivery day is and I'll drop by with mine so you can have a "before-and-after" display. Lately I've been looking for destinations and reasons just to go for a ride... not that either are necessary when you have one of these.
The phone rang at 10:43 AM. Steve, my Stewart Transport driver, had just crossed into Illinois. We had talked the evening before and he told me he'd give me a heads-up when he was getting close. The weather was good, but it was probably the hottest day of the year so far. He showed up about 11:30.
43683
Pretty subtle, right?
43684
Steve had a full load – 12 kits. Mine’s on the top.
43685
Steve was pretty efficient. It didn’t take all that long to unload everything.
43686
She's headed into the garage. My neighbors showed up at the perfect time. We got all the boxes organized and staged, moving the higher numbered ones to the basement. Our street is normally pretty quiet, but this morning was a bit busier. I can’t imagine why… There was a continual stream of on-lookers going by, pointing and smiling. So much for maintaining a low profile.
About 90 minutes after Steve left, the skies opened up. We got about 2 inches of rain in less than 20 minutes. I think his timing was perfect! I went into the basement an hour or two later to check on something and noticed that water was coming up through the concrete seams (which are sealed). It turns out that my sump pump switch died and the sump filled to over-flowing. Enough water pressure built up under and around the foundation that water was coming up through the floor. Fortunately, I caught it in time, but I ended up having to replace the sump pump. Wasn’t exactly in the plans. The boxes in the basement – they’re all off the floor now.
Next up – finish the inventory and get the body buck ready. It looks like some parts I need early in the process are backordered, which isn't really a problem because I'm not planning to do much until I get back from build school in August.
DaleG
07-20-2015, 01:07 PM
Woohoo!!!
6t8dart
07-20-2015, 03:13 PM
Congrats! Mine will be here tomorrow after noon.
Clearly (judging from the dates), it’s been a while since anything got added to this log. Lots of reasons, some reasonable, some not so much. Whatever. Nevertheless, we’re getting caught up. Again, not that it really matters, but I feel better about it!
You may have seen posts where I whined about photos being sideways or upside down. As it turns out, there is an attribute “EXIF” that is part of every photo file. It tracks what is “up” relative to the original camera angle. So, if you do most of your photos on an iPhone (like me), “up” is always the end where the speaker is on the phone, whether you are shooting the photo vertically, or horizontally. How to fix? Photo editing software (I use Gimp2) will fix that. Just another problem that needed to be solved.
Let’s get caught up!
Reality sets in. August 10, 2015
It’s almost a month since the kit’s been delivered. In that time I have passed it in the garage daily, gone on several business trips, taken a vacation, and did our annual stint volunteering at Little Sable Lighthouse. I managed to spend two afternoons doing inventory, and have gotten through almost half of the boxes. I want to get moving here, but life, work and everything else seems to be getting in the way. The plan: get the buck modified and assembled this weekend, remove the body and get it on the buck. Before I do that, I need to get a few more 2x4’s, bigger casters, and figure out the measurements because Chris’ buck is not the same size as in the plans. It will still work.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=47887&d=1448306768
Can we go for a ride yet?
The buck stops here. August 16, 2015.
Finally. I get to work on the car – indirectly. It’s hotter than hell. 91 is the forecast high, but it’s a day I can actually do something, so I have to seize the moment! I got all the 2x4s that I need, I got the bigger (4”) casters and I’m good to go.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=47895&d=1448306768
Chris’ buck was made to have the body at waist level, not eye level. Consequently, the frame is on the inside and the OSB board didn’t have to be as wide. I need to carry the body above the frame so I can wheel it in and out of the garage as needed. I put two 2x4s across the OSB board and fastened them with 5/16 bolts. The existing frame and casters were set aside. I’m sure they’ll get used for something.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=47894&d=1448306768
Here’s a piece all assembled and ready to go. Now for the fun part – building the side supports and legs. According to the plans I found on FFCARS – the “old” forum, I wanted the support pieces to be 6’5” wide. The side supports should be full 2x4x8s. I bought four of them. I also had four 2x4x92s. the problem was I cut the long boards down to 77” and was left with only 3 full size side pieces! Looks like another trip to Home Depot. The issue isn’t the cost in this case (2x4x8 cost $2.37) – it’s time.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=47893&d=1448306768
Here’s one side’s worth of supports. The casters are 5” tall, the leg (vertical supports) are 6’. So we’re 77 wide and 77 tall. That should do it. The mid- support is 44 inches off the ground. That should provide an extra 2 inches for the frame. I needed at least 42 inches for that. Next problem: how much above the side support do I fasten the end pieces? We’ll find out this coming week. Two more problems: a) I ran out of screws, which was just as well because I b) ran out of gas. Time to call it quits.
August 23, 2015. Build School
I spent the weekend in Howell, Michigan at Build School. Along with 11 other guys, we built a roadster in three days. A few interesting facts: of all those there, I was the only one who already had a kit. Three of the attendees are building a GTM; the rest are still on the fence. I decided early that I was going to make certain I was in the thick of things, and I was. Hopefully, I wasn’t obnoxious about it. I told David, one of the other attendees to tell me if I was pushing my way in too much, and he never said anything, so I guess I was OK. My goal was to confront a lot of systems within the car where I had no experience – which, frankly, was most of it.
Friday resulted in a rolling chassis.
Saturday was an interesting day. The goal of the day was to get a running vehicle – that is, effectively have a mechanically complete – or go kart – car. I was surprised how easily the engine went in. Of course, the fact that these guys have built and torn down this particular car about a bazillion times certainly helped. After watching the clutch connection, it was clear to me that a cable clutch is pretty easy, so why spend extra to install a hydraulic clutch. The other item that made the class-build easy was that they had pre-installed the brake and fuel lines. Nevertheless, we got it started by the end of the day.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=47892&d=1448306768
Sunday was a little tougher. Fatigue started to set in. We had to get the body on, fix the windshield in place and more. Lots of detail work that isn’t as much fun as the mechanical stuff, but equally necessary. Finally, after what seemed an eternity, the car was complete, the wheels were securely bolted on and Jim took the car out to the parking lot. It was fun. It was also a long ride home!
August 30, 2015: finally got the body off.
There’s a lot going on in our lives. Vacations to go on, weddings to attend, work, you name it. I finally got a day to work on the car, and Matt Shiles came over to see it. I enlisted his help while he was here, and we got the body off. Of course, it’s never that easy. First, I had to assemble the buck that’s been patiently waiting – in pieces – in the garage. Between the two of us, we got it assembled. Adding to the madness, we’ve been trying to get our driveway re-paved since May. The paving guys finally showed up today to rip out the old asphalt and level the gravel. Between them, Matt and me, we got the body off the frame and onto the buck. Finally! I can get to work on the frame!
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=47902&d=1448306768
I decided that I want to get all of the aluminum panels you can see powder coated. In order to get an estimate on how much that will cost, I have to get the pieces all together and photograph them. I have a bunch of pieces in “box 6” and “box 23”, but many of them are on the frame. I couldn’t photograph them until I got the body off. Now I can start the dis-assembly of panels off the frame. But wait! They need to be marked so we know which way they go back on! There really isn’t a deadline on this project, is there? Other than I can’t wait to drive it…
An important note here. In case you haven’t figured this out yet, I’m no expert. If you get something interesting out of this build log, great. But don’t expect anything. I’m going for entertainment value, nothing more!
September 12, 2015. Back to work on aluminum.
We had a great trip to Lake Powell. I brought my manual with me and tried to plan ahead. Back in the garage, I started marking parts in earnest. In addition to putting tape markers on each panel, I noted in my notebook which parts went on top of others and more or less the sequence in which I’d need to put them back on. Hopefully, this will be of benefit later. I got all the panels labeled, off, and photographed. I even got my front suspension parts out so I know what’s next. Well sort of – I need to find the upper and lower control arms and ensure that I have all my ball joints. I also need to rent the tools I need for that – a ball joint socket and a 250 lb. torque wrench.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=47889&d=1448306768
Chris Russell stopped by on Sunday with his Mark 3.1. He took both Nancy and me for a ride. Yes, his car is fast. It was great. Chris did a fantastic job building his and offered a lot of insights. One suggestion he made was to support the rear of the body. Yes, this thing will be sitting on the buck for an extended time, so it probably makes sense to provide some support for it so it doesn’t develop a sag on the rear end. If the composite body sits in one position long enough, it might take that shape. So, off to the basement to see what I have on hand to fabricate some wood braces. I decided on diagonals from the base of the rear body support panel and held them in place with wires. It certainly isn’t pretty, but it is effective. I keep thinking about Bill Haas who wrote an article on FFCARS.com on how to build one: his comment was something to the effect of building a “buck” and not a “doe”. He also said “So, it better look good. AND, you don’t want your friends laughing about the drunken Giraffe you built and ask you if the Roadster will turn out any better!” I may be approaching the Giraffe with my brace, but it is effective…
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=47901&d=1448306768
September 19, 2015: started on the front suspension.
I had a couple of housekeeping items to attend to: I had to get the panels from the boxes in the basement and photograph them for powder coating. I needed to locate the balance of the front suspension parts – upper and lower control arms, and I had to rent the tools I need for the IFS. Nothing is quick. I was finally able to start attempting to mount the lower control arms on Sunday afternoon. The trick is that you get four washers – spacers – in the kit. You should only need two – one each for the rear arm of the LCA. But, there’s a lot of space on the driver side rear. Enough, by the looks of it, to install two. But should I? I posted a question to that effect, and Jeff Kleiner responded saying “you only need one”. I decided to call FFR on Monday. (I did and they said go ahead and use two…). By now, it was 4:30 and the kids showed up. Time to go cook.
September 26, 2015: Ball joints.
I thought things were supposed to slow down in the fall. Why haven’t they? Work is busy (which is good), travel is picking up (not so good, but necessary), and FFR is holding a Fall sale because things have supposedly slowed down and people have time to build cars. Yeah? Who? I’m lucky if I have time to work on the weekends. Forget about weekday evenings, at least for now. OK, enough griping, back to the topic at hand. Next on the agenda are the upper control arms and ball joints. Yet another item where I have no prior experience. At build school, the instructors suggested that one can get a socket for the ball joints. So I headed over to my (new) friends at Autozone to rent a ball joint socket and a 250lb torque wrench. If all goes well, I should be able to get the whole front suspension done this weekend.
They didn’t have a socket. They had a ball joint press kit, which the guy promised included a socket. It didn’t. We did find a socket on the shelf that’s made for a FWD hub, but I’m not sure that was the right tool. But, we’ll give it a whirl.
So the ball joints have threads, but not on the entire body. The UCA has threads the whole way. So, what to do? Just line up the threads on the ball joint with the UCA or tighten it all the way down, beyond the threads? I posted a question to that effect on the forum, and got some interesting replies. Some factual, others editorial. Essentially, the message was “follow the freaking instructions, dummy!” The truth is, I was hoping someone would validate my logic of lining up the threads, because I had already put thread locker on the ball joint. No one did. I was amazed at the responses that post received. Ball joints seem to be a bone of contention for the group. There are a lot of opinions on these and a good number of builders have clearly opted for “alternate” products rather than the ones in the kit.
OK, I need to do it over. Kevin in Raleigh reminded me of my priorities: you don’t screw around with brakes or suspension. You need to get them right. I might need a heat gun to loosen the thread locker. Maybe not, but I’ll save myself a trip if I just get it now. Out of time for this weekend, so I’ll have to sweat the whole thread locker thing until my next opportunity.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=47904&d=1448306885
October 9, 2015. Pumpkin arrives.
The Fed Ex guy delivered the differential and driveshaft today. I think I have everything now, excepting the engine. That can wait – I don’t have room to store it. It’s bad enough I’m going to need to re-arrange so I can get firewood in the garage. The pumpkin looks good. 72 lbs. 3.55 gears. That should work well.
October 11, 2015. Progress at last.
I’ve been thinking about my problem for two weeks now. Didn’t get to work on the car last weekend, but did get to go deer hunting. I kept thinking about front suspension parts as we bounced over the ruts in the fields and the woods as we slogged to the tree stands in southern Illinois. But now I’m ready to go. My ball joint/UCA is looking the same as two weeks ago. I popped it into the vise, and voila! It came apart! Hmmm, that was easier than expected. Maybe I (fortunately) didn’t put enough thread locker on it. Maybe this stuff just doesn’t hold that well anyway. Doesn’t matter – it came off and there’s no damage to either part. I cleaned the parts, loaded the ball joint with thread locker and put it on again, nice and tight all the way down to the cap this time. Piece of cake.
Time to get the UCA on the frame. The biggest challenge here, it turns out, was getting it torqued to specs. It’s only a couple of months until I get the shoulder repaired, and hopefully that will make a positive difference in the spring.
I got the PS spindle on, and lined everything up for the DS spindle. Out of time for this weekend – time to clean up the work area and see the grand kids.
October 19, 2015: Orange paint.
Every time I go in the garage, I see the IRS center section there, sitting on a dolly, waiting for something – anything – to happen. It looks pretty good in its primer state, but I should really paint it. I want it to stand out. You won’t see it unless you’re quite a way behind the car, but it will get your attention. What color could be better than orange to get your attention? (It is called a pumpkin, after all…) Orange goes with blue. It goes with red. It goes (more or less) with green, so whatever color I finally choose, it should work out well. I got the monster into the basement, set up some cardboard and newspapers to catch the overspray and went at it. Two coats later, it looks pretty good. Time to install it.
November 1, 2015. A productive day.
I finally had time to work on the car again today. I asked Matt if he could help out today because my goal was to install the IRS center section and I knew that’s a two man job. Before he arrived, I got most of the IRS components out and ready so we’d be able to hit it right away.
The pumpkin went in with relative ease. I believe this is due to the variances found in manufacturing clearances. Either that, or variances in differential dimensions. Whatever the reason, my combination worked. I’ve read about so many builders who had problems getting this thing in place – we got it the second try. Very little paint damage to the pumpkin, and none to the frame. I did have the presence of mind to put some tape on the frame beforehand. Thank God for Matt! He volunteered to get under the frame and muscle it into place. Yours truly manned the jack. Boy, what a big help I was…
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=47909&d=1448306889
Looks pretty good, doesn’t it.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=47908&d=1448306888
Next up was to get the IRS in place. We got the upper and lower control arms in place for the IRS and started thinking about drive shafts and knuckles.
We also got the front spindles in place. I thought I had everything I needed to finish that particular task, but alas, once again I was mistaken! The hub nut is 36mm. Do I have a 36mm socket? Well, no. Does Matt? Yes, but did I ask him to bring one? Of course not. So much for torqueing that into place.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=47904&d=1448306885
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=47905&d=1448306886
Speaking of spindles, I wanted to get the IRS knuckles/spindles in place, too. The idea was to get all the heavy torque jobs done and return the rental 250 lbs. wrench before the rental period expired. The challenge there was that the spindles weren’t pressed into the knuckles. Time to call it a day. All in all, pretty productive. Hey – you have to celebrate these little victories because I don’t have that much time to work on the car right now!
November 8, 2015 – IFS and bolts.
Today’s goal was to finish up the suspension pieces. Sure. Best laid plans and all that. With the help of the 250 lb torque wrench and a cheater pipe, I got the front spindles to spec. That was a relief. On to the rear. But wait! Where are the bolts to mount the knuckles to the control arms? Not here – that’s for certain. After looking through the inventory list and a few other places, I determined that they didn’t exist in my garage. I need to make a few calls on Monday.
November 15, 2015 – decent progress on the IRS.
The bolts showed up mid-week. After calling tech support, I gave Mike Forte a call and ordered what I needed. They fit perfectly. Except, there were no spacers included. Check the manual – no spacers indicated. Check the forum and the Smith book – no reference to spacers I can find. But look – the gap is pretty big:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=47906&d=1448306887[/IMG
A hardened washer from Ace Hardware fit perfectly. Problem solved. (I’m sure someone will have some kind of comment on that, but it seemed logical) With relative ease, the knuckles went on:
[IMG]http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=60127&d=1477417890
I needed to torque the hub nuts to 180+ lbs. and wanted to return the wrench, so that was next. The thing I didn’t think about was that the axle would turn. Everything worked fine until it started to get tight and then everything started turning on me. Hmmm. I need to come up with some approach to keep the axle stationary. I grabbed a couple of 2x4s, drilled a couple of holes into one that would line up with the studs and had a workable solution. I’ll probably get laughed off the forum for this one, but it worked…
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=60131&d=1477429946
Looks pretty good. Just need to get the shocks on now. Out of time – I’ll deal with that next weekend. I may hit the goal of rolling chassis before winter still!
November 21, 2015.
Oops. I got the rear brakes sorted out and went to put them on the car. Wait – the caliper connections are on the front. Is that correct? Check the manual again. No clear direction there. Check the Smith book. Yup – they’re on backwards. So much for feeling good about last week. Time to take it all apart and start over.
I got the breaker bar and a cheater pipe out, set up my 2x4 stud holder and… the wood cracked. Hmmm, this isn’t going to work out so well. I need a better solution. But, what can I use to hold the axle in place without wrecking the wheel studs?
I called Chris Russell for his advice on holding the axle still. He never did answer the question – he just said, “I’ve got the tool that will take it off – I’ll be over this afternoon.” He showed up with his 1100lb. battery powered impact wrench and had the nuts off in about 30 seconds. It’s always easier with the right tools. OK, back to reality tomorrow and we’ll see if we can put this thing back together correctly – and get the brakes on.
December 3, 2015: Ground down the burrs. I attempted to get the caliper bracket on the knuckle, but it won’t fit. The shape of the casting prevents it from fitting properly. No problem. We can grind that down. Ted the airplane builder dropped by for moral support and the grinding was uneventful.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=48319&d=1449264859
December 5, 2015: Wrap up for the winter. This has been a busy time. I need to wrap up everything now for the winter, as I’m getting my new shoulder on the 17th and need to have everything “locked down”. It will be 3 or 4 months before I’m able to work on the car again.
February 15, 2016: I’m done debating what I’m doing about the aluminum panels. The ones you can see – I’ll get powder coated. The others, basically nothing. I located a reputable shop about 45 minutes away and dropped off the panels.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=59940&d=1476830371
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=59939&d=1476830369
February 23, 2016: A little off topic, but I was in Las Vegas (again) for another conference. Tough life, right? This one was not really fun. More prospecting than working with customers and the show hours were pretty long. But… I got one of the marketing guys to come with me and we made a pilgrimage to the Carrol Shelby museum! Well worth the trip. It was fun to see all the variants of the roadster as well as the original car. I brought home a “Cobra” sign to hang in the garage. Not much or a souvenir, but it’s too much trouble to lug a lot of stuff home on an airplane.
March 6, 2016: I’m back. Sort of. Shoulder feels great; PT twice a week. Except I somehow managed to injure a nerve in the other arm. My right hand is not cooperating with what my brain is telling it. I need to get this sorted out soon.
March 13, 2016: The shocks are done. Finally. I torqued the rear spindles, and started working on the front rotors. My buddy Don, who’s restoring a C3 Corvette on the east coast, talks about his project being a “tool magnet”. You bet! I’m acquiring all kinds of interesting stuff.
March 16, 2016: Got my tires mounted. I looked at a number of tire options, but frankly, in the 17 inch size, there weren’t that many options where I could match the front and rears in different sizes. My “tire advisor” Ken recommended I go with the Nitto NT05s. I know they are basically worthless on wet pavement, but then again how often am I going to drive this thing in the rain? I think I can deal with that.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=51810&d=1458577542
I needed to take the S60 in for service (yes, I am building a car, but no, I do not work on my daily driver. I need to ensure it’s ready to go every day. I’m not going to take the chance that I can’t finish a given maintenance task in the allotted time and not have my car ready to go to work…) so I told the service advisor I wanted to get some tires mounted on rims. He took one look at them and said “these aren’t going to fit on the Volvo”. Duh… “Yes, I know that. These are for the Cobra”, I replied. An hour later he called me and reported that the wheels were too big – they wouldn’t fit on their mounting machine. Oh, well. So, this time, before I loaded them up, I called the local Firestone store. “Yup”, they replied, “they’ll fit on our machine.” Off I went. The best part is when I picked them up: the technician said “these are the biggest tires I’ve ever seen!” Really? Ever work on trucks? My old 4x4 had bigger tires than these… No matter.
March 19, 2016: Lots of brake action this weekend. I finished up the front rotors, got the rear brakes on, and mounted tires. I was a little apprehensive about doing the safety wire, but it was pretty straightforward. One thing that made it much easier was a pair of safety wire pliers. Well worth the 30 bucks. A big reason why I’ve spent so much time on front and rear brakes: I’ve never worked on brakes before. Ever. I got my buddy the Honda technician to inspect them. He gave me the thumbs up. Phew!
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=51815&d=1458577545
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=59945&d=1476830374
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After I had everything in place – i.e. rear brake calipers, front rotors and calipers, I popped the tires on. Another small victory. It always helps to look like I’m making progress even if it’s going really, really slowly.
April 3, 2016: More fun with the rear brakes. You already read this, but I went the Wilwood brake route. Out of the box, the e-brake brackets are positioned such that you can’t connect the cable if the wheel is on. But, as you can see from the photos, there are lots of adjustment holes so you can rotate the brackets.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=59950&d=1476830381
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=59952&d=1476830383 http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=59950&d=1476830381
This might be a problem for a “brake novice”, but not for me, Mr. Confidence! This is going to be a piece of cake.
April 17, 2016: Well, I was wrong. It wasn’t a piece of cake. I got everything back together with the brackets in the correct general direction, but the calipers won’t go on! WTF? The pistons got extended and now they’re too close together to go over the rotor. Mr. Confidence just learned yet another lesson: the piston rear calipers need to be compressed. And guess what! Remember what I said about tool magnet? I get to acquire a new compression tool! It took a little tweaking as far as getting the tool to fit the caliper, but the effort was successful. I got the pistons back where they belong and the fit perfectly over the rotors. Another new skill!
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=60132&d=1477430939 http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=60133&d=1477430940
April 30, 2016: firewall prep for heater. You’ll (maybe, because this thing is too damn long) remember that I’m going to put a heater in place. I may regret that when it’s time to do wiring and find a place for engine computers and the like, but the die is cast! In a moment of lucidity, I realized I should get the heater core and blower in place now, before I put the firewall in place. I got out my instructions, taped the template onto the firewall aluminum (powder coated) and stopped. “I should probably check to ensure that the template is the same as the actual part.” It wasn’t. Good catch. More tweaking and we should be good. I got out the dremel and cut away.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=59957&d=1476830387
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=59958&d=1476830388
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=59960&d=1476830390
This is a good time to get going on pedals, too. I did a trial fit of the pedal box and temporarily mounted the the DS footbox front. Looks pretty good so far.
OK, time to put everything away for a while – surgery on my right elbow (to fix the nerve problem) on Monday. See you soon!
June 12, 2016: Back again. Hopefully, I can stop consuming so much health care. You’ve seen this before – other builders have commented that our group tends to skew a little older. This “approaching retirement age” is not all it’s cracked up to be. Enough editorializing. Let’s get going.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=59961&d=1476830391
First – the firewall. Got the firewall mounted and then attached the heater core. This was easy. I like easy. Got going on the pedals in earnest, too. Everything is starting to come together. Also, I want to get my gas tank installed, but I think it makes sense to put fluid in the pumpkin before I do that. No problem. Let’s take out the plug and fill ‘er up!
Well, that went well. First, tried a breaker bar. No go. Next, impact wrench. Nope. Posted a thread on the topic here: http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?21431-Yet-another-opportunity-for-learning
June 30, 2016: The Coyote arrives!
I bought my engine from Mike Forte. I know others have commented on this forum vendor in the past, but I’ll say it again – I’m a fan. He installed the clutch and bell housing along with a few other items. It made things a lot easier at this end. It was the driver’s last delivery for the day, and it was clear he was running out of energy.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=59964&d=1476830393
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=59966&d=1476830395
The fun part was that the pallet was all the way in the front of the box and the pallet jack he had was the wrong size (un-adjustable) for the engine pallet. Boy that was fun. Between three of us, we finally got the pallet onto the lift gate. At the bottom, we managed to get it on to a dolly and roll it into the garage. It may be aluminum and not that heavy, but this thing is huge! A thing of beauty. My buddy Matt and I disagree so far: I look at the engine wiring harness and am intimidated. He looks at it and says “no problem. It’s plug and play!” Of course, he’s the guy that put an LSX in his ‘69 Malibu.
July 2, 2016: Let’s move on.
I went back and forth on this for a while, but finally gave in on the power steering approach. The FFR rack arrived and we got that installed. It was tight, but it fit.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=59970&d=1476830399
July 3, 2016: Based on the advice I received here, heat should be the solution to getting the plug out of the pumpkin.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=60117&d=1477360116
I shot the general area around the plug for about 5 minutes with the torch and the only thing I accomplished was burning the 500 degree Rust-o-leum paint. Matt said he’d take a look at it next time he comes by.
July 10, 2016: Next decision.
Do I cut the frame or notch the pedal? In a post over the winter, I contributed my thoughts and said I’d notch the pedal. Somehow, I forgot that opinion and bought some bar steel to take the EdwardB approach. More internal debate and finally I elected to go with the pedal notch approach. I think this was the right choice. I took my time and cut it out with the Dremel and painted the bare parts. You have to look carefully at the clutch to see what I did. I’m happy with this.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=59973&d=1476830402
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=59954&d=1476830385
Once I had the pedal box fixed in position and was happy with the modification, I slipped the clutch cable into place. Hmmm. The end of the cable misses the opening on the pedal box.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=59975&d=1476830404
Check the manual. It looks like I assembled everything correctly, but it doesn’t fit. But, if I rearrange the pieces on the clutch pedal, I can move the cable over the necessary ½ inch and all will be good. I took apart the clutch pedal and repainted all the pieces.
July 17, 2016: I got the clutch back together and everything lines up for the cable. Put that in the complete column! BTW- the kit celebrated its first anniversary in my garage.
I decided a few months ago that I wanted to go with a wood dash. Clearly, the best solution to that is to use a veneer. After doing some research on the topic, I found Rockler. They’re a national woodworking chain with a couple of stores in the Chicago area. I spent some quality time with the guys there and they helped me pick out veneer, stain and top coat. I ordered a piece of cherry veneer, went with a warm cherry stain and a glossy top coat. Everything is here and ready to go. I was going to put the veneer on the dashboard, so I asked here on this thread: http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?21658-Dashboard-measurement
Bottom line: I need to fit the dashboard on the frame – at least get the bends close – before I apply the veneer.
Remember the fill plug for the pumpkin? It finally got resolved when Matt came over with his “big ratchet”. He claims I loosened it for him, but it doesn’t matter. He had it off in about a minute. Tell me again why a 325 ft/lb impact wrench couldn’t get that off and a ratchet could?
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=59978&d=1476830409
August 28: I finally was able to fill the differential and get the new plug in place. If these, the simplest of tasks are going to go this slowly, it may take me longer than Gumball! (Just kidding, Chris…)
August 29: I started work assembling the gas tank today. Pretty easy except for the filter that goes on the end of the in-tank fuel pump. I was afraid to screw up either the filter or the pump itself, so it was extra caution here. It went on pretty tightly, as others have commented, but it’s on to stay.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=59983&d=1476830420
September 4: Labor Day weekend brought a three day “car” weekend. I’ve been looking forward to this for a while! Goals for this weekend - accelerator, engine lift brackets, and try out the footbox sheetmetal. Let’s start with the accelerator.
The Coyote instructions are quite detailed on this topic. EdwardB also has an excellent writeup. So what did I do? A combination of the two. It was actually pretty straightforward, if not time-consuming, but between the Dremel and a hacksaw I was able to make the necessary trims.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=59987&d=1476830428
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I used the FFR supplied bracket to mount the accelerator as opposed to EdwardB’s, and it worked pretty well. After I got the pedal itself cut to length, I tried it out and my right foot was happy with the result. This will work.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=59995&d=1476830449
While I was at it, I popped the inside wall to the DS footbox in place. This is a problem. Now I see why the FFR manual says to trim the brake pedal. With shoes on, I can’t step on either the brake or accelerator without hitting the other.
OK, I have three options available to me now: a) go the 2bking route and use his modification (I have the engineering drawings), get the new FFR sheet metal, or fabricate my own. I thought I was going to receive the new sheet metal with the kit, but alas, it didn’t start shipping until (probably) 6 months after I ordered my kit. I asked around for fabricator referrals in the local area, but none of my friends had any. After talking with the guys in Wareham, I decided I wasn’t going to be able to fabricate my own solution (or King’s) for less than what the new sheet metal will cost. For now, problem solved.
I started working on the PS footbox and got most of it drilled out. This turned out to be a pretty productive weekend. I need more of these.
September 24: more work on the pedals and engine lift brackets. I finished the accelerator pedal, attaching the “kit” pedal to the Coyote module. Everything looks good. As I learned to expect, it took much longer than I planned, but so what? I temporarily mounted the DS footbox inside wall and checked it out with my feet. This will work. OK – here’s an interesting item. When I sat in Gumball’s MK 3.1, I couldn’t get my left foot around the clutch. My car – no problem. I think his outside wall is structured differently. On the MK 4 the outside wall is outside the frame. With the new FFR Coyote footbox sheetmetal, there’s plenty of room for both feet, even with sneakers.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=59989&d=1476830440
Next up – finish the engine lift brackets. Of course, this turned out to be more work than expected, thanks to a careless error in metric to SAE conversion. A 14mm bolt will not fit in a half-inch hole. Ask me how I know… the file did a great job and now the bolts all fit. The lift brackets are in place and ready; the chains are connected for the leveler.
The goal is to get the engine in place before it gets really cold. I think we have a shot at that! Finally, I was able to drill and cleco in place the PS footbox. We’re making progress.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=59992&d=1476830443
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=59991&d=1476830442
October 2: more work on aluminum.
Clecos are great. I thought I had way more than I’d ever need. Nope, you can always use more. I need to rivet some of these parts so I can cleco more in place!
October 12: Once again, I started thinking about a sound system. The thought process went something like this: if I’m putting aluminum in place, now is the time to decide where speakers get mounted and holes get cut. So, I posted a question here: http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?22321-Speaker-location
That turned out to provide some pretty interesting information. End result: I think I’ll skip the sound system.
October 15: time to go beyond aluminum. I got all the cockpit aluminum in place that I can. I’m just marking and drilling for now. I took some more panels in to get powder coated and I want to get the fuel and brakes lines in place before I rivet these pieces. It’s much easier to work on tubing from above the car than from underneath. So, time to move on to the fuel lines. First up – get the in-line filter in place. The challenge here is that the location recommended in the manual is the same place that the shock absorber lives. Hmmmm – posted another thread on that. You can see it here: http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?22351-In-line-fuel-filter
October 22: The plan was to get the fuel filter in place, AND get the fuel lines in place. Not a chance. I checked a few more build logs and found some good locations. I went with King Burgess’ location, which you can see on my frame here:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=60119&d=1477362045
The current challenge is where to mount the brake connections for the rear wheels. I’m concerned about the flexible brake lines hitting either the tire or getting stuck in the coil overs, so I’m being a little paranoid about that. Need to do some more research. I also need to plug in the e-brake cables so I can ensure I don’t have conflict with any of the moving parts there, too. Should be a fun week.
Phew! All caught up.
WIS89
10-26-2016, 02:43 PM
Al-
WOW, when you make an update, you make an update!! You did a lot of work, while still undergoing two surgeries. I am pleased that your work, as well as your surgeries has gone well!
I also think that you now have a ready answer for whenever anyone asks you "what's up?" The correct answer, as you pointed out in your earliest post today, is the speaker!
Congratulations on the progress, and thanks for taking the time to post the update.
Regards,
Steve
wareaglescott
10-26-2016, 05:46 PM
Build is looking great. I enjoyed the mega update!
I found out a little late in the game that running the heater with the coyote requires constant fluid circulation which is a little different that how the valve that comes with the heater works. Requires some extra fabrication. I ended up aborting on the heater in favor of heated seats so I cant give you much more info than that. Just wanted to give you a heads up to look into that in case you are unaware.
Thanks for the heads up on the heater! What's one more challenge...
But: I want to mount these reservoirs:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=60200&d=1477576341
onto this frame rail:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=60199&d=1477576341
I think I know the answer, but would appreciate confirmation. In order for the hood to close properly, will the tops of the reservoirs need to be *below* the rail, or can they be even with it?
Boy, that was fun.
I was looking forward to today. We scheduled the “first” install of the Coyote into the frame. My friend Matt and his brother-in-law (both experienced in these things) came over to lend a hand. It was more like they were teaching me, which was fine…
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=60884&d=1479002770
I got the car off the jack stands and moved it to a better spot in the garage. It looked a lot different sitting on its wheels rather than jack stands.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=60885&d=1479002771
Actually, it looks like it has a gaping hole here…
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=60887&d=1479002772
Here we are with the engine up in the air.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=60888&d=1479002773
We got the transmission mounted, too. The idea of this exercise was to get the engine and trans installed and see how everything fit and take measurements for all kinds of things. All in all, it was a good idea to do this.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=60889&d=1479002773
So far so good.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=60891&d=1479002774
It’s a pretty tight fit. Starting to see some issues here.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=60892&d=1479002775
One of the biggest problems was that the arm on the crane didn’t extend far enough. I’ll fix that for next time.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=60894&d=1479002776
This has to go. It’s probably in the manual, but we were too “in the moment” to check at the time.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=60895&d=1479002776
It’s in. OK, time for some observations:
1. The oil sender unit was in the way during the install. Now that the engine is in, we can’t get it in place due to the frame. I think a longer arm on the crane will help here.
2. The oil cooler has to go. It’s probably in the manual, but did the three of us look there? Of course not.
3. The crane’s arm is not long enough. Something to consider if you’re going to buy a crane. I can fix this with a 5/8” drill bit…
4. I copied EdwardB’s lift brackets. Sorry, Paul, they didn’t work. The rear bracket hits the PS footbox. I need to re-work the bracket for next time. Maybe I didn’t copy them exactly. Whatever. I need to shape the bracket differently.
5. The steering shaft hits the left head! I need to move things around here. Anybody else run in to this?
6. The headers don’t fit. Maybe they will when I replace the studs with bolts, but with the engine in, it’s not looking good. Need to read the manual again.
7. Well, it’s in. If only temporarily.
Jazzman
11-13-2016, 12:13 AM
I am fighting the same battle so here is what I know.
Yes, the oil cooler unit does have to go. It unscrews from the center post running right down center.
I also made Edwardb's engine lift brackets. They work just fine as is, but I would make them about 2" longer if I were to do it again. The hooks are a bit too close to the engine. You do need to use washers to shim the lift plates away from the engine. I used three on the plate on the DS front of the engine, and five on the one on the PS rear of the engine. The bend in the rear lift plate is critical to keep the hook away from the engine. Extra length on both plates would really help.
Yes, you must move the steering shaft out of the way to get the engine in. Everybody runs into this. FFR did put this problem in the manual put it into the manual.
Did you remove the wire retention clip at the very front DS corner of the engine, just above the alternator? This clip will conflict with the steering shaft when you go to reinstall the steering shaft.
I have not yet fought the headers, but from what I read, it is best to put in the rear bolts before the engine is fully set down on the engine mounts. It also seems to be easier to install the DS headers before the DS engine mount is attached. I hope to have better experience on this in the next week.
I have 28" of space between the hydraulic ram of the crane and the front of the engine. I think that will be enough to span the front of the car. I have the crane extended to it's 1/2 ton setting.
Good Luck!!
edwardb
11-13-2016, 12:29 AM
Jazzman pretty much covered it re: oil cooler, steering shaft, wire retention clip, shop crane. With the 2-ton HF shop crane, I've found it needs to be at the 1/2 ton setting (which is plenty of capacity) to give good reach from the front. And that's with the radiator removed. Your engine lift brackets on the back of the engine don't look much like the ones I showed. I only used one, and didn't have the right angle bend extending out. Agree those would hit the PS footbox.
For your earlier question about the reservoirs, the lids can be at the top of the 3/4-inch hood tubes and the will still clear the hood. Actually even a bit higher, but I wouldn't mount them higher unless you have the body and hood in place to confirm. The hood does arch quite a bit so there's more room there than you might expect.
When we left off last time, along with a few friends, I had dropped the engine in for the first time. That was a planned first time. I knew it would be coming out. Not that I particularly enjoy that activity, but I had an agenda. Of course, the best laid plans always end up changing and I never got around to dealing with some of the items I wanted to with the engine in place. Whatever. I did take some measurements as planned, but not all of them. Learned a lot. More on that later. OK, so what have we accomplished since the middle of November? A lot of little things, really. Let’s get started.
It seems like I spent an awful lot of time looking for hoses and connectors. I think I have visited just about every auto parts store in the Chicago suburbs looking for hoses that match those that came in the kit. Not sure why it’s so hard to find these things, but it is. Finally, I found a guy at Car Quest who makes hydraulic lines. It’s probably overkill, but at least we’ll get that dealt with.
I needed to fabricate a bracket to mount my two brake reservoirs. I elected to install that on the upper frame rail just forward of the foot box front. I had a piece of aluminum that I was going to use for the bracket, and asked Gumball if he had a brake to bend the piece. When I brought it over to his shop he suggested I swap that out and use a piece of steel instead. We got that sized correctly and off I went. Here’s the rub: If I merely used rattle can paint (that was my default approach) and spilled brake fluid on it, the paint would come off. The best solution would be to powder coat the piece. The challenge there is that the shop I have used for powder coating is 45 minutes away and takes a minimum of 6 weeks. They do good work, but it comes at a cost in time and money. So… I decided it’s time to learn a new skill! I dove in and bought Eastwood’s powder coat sprayer kit and one of their ovens. More on that later. I also decided that I didn’t need to bend the bracket. Why not just mount it to the vertical part of the rail and use a flat piece of metal? That’s what I did. Fabricating parts like this is probably not a big deal for most of the builders here, but it’s a new skill for me. I’ve never done much work with metal before, for a bunch of reasons, none of them very good. One of these days I’ll learn how to weld, too.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=63973&d=1487036319
At the end of November, I still needed to get the rear brakes done once and for all – that means getting the e-brake cables correctly oriented. The Wilwoods have considerable flexibility in adjustment, it just takes a little doing once the caliper is installed. The smallest wheel puller I had wouldn’t fit on the caliper without hitting the shock. I needed something smaller and found that on Amazon. I can find just about anything on Amazon. (My wife keeps commenting on the frequency of Amazon deliveries…) I posted a photo and a question on this topic here: http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?22739-I-guess-I-ve-put-this-off-long-enough&p=258926#post258926
I ended up following Karlos’ advice and got everything in place.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=63759&d=1486483652
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=63760&d=1486483653
December 12: It’s been busy at work (usually a good thing) but between that and looking for hoses and connectors, I managed to get some weekend time in. With the engine and transmission in place, I could see if there was going to be any interference with the mid-shift option. I believe there is. I know some guys just cut the cross-beam out and others relocate it and weld it back in place. I don’t want to eliminate it and I don’t weld (see comment above…). So, the solution will be the same as many use (not me) for the clutch pedal: notch the cross beam and reinforce behind it with a steel bar.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=63761&d=1486483653
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=63982&d=1487036327
Christmas weekend: Our family alternates holidays. Our kids come one year and go to their in-laws the next. This year, we had Thanksgiving, but not Christmas. Being on our own meant that I had more time in the garage over the three-day weekend. I used it to bend brake lines. Another new skill! The biggest challenge in bending the lines is figuring out where to orient the line in the tubing bending tool. I know that EdwardB commented on that as well! It’s not perfect, but I think they came out pretty well. Not sure why we have the loops, but that’s what they taught us in build school, so that’s what I did. One tip I got at build school was to bend tight curves around a large socket (like 1”). That worked out really well. I even got a compliment from my friend Dan on my brake lines. They probably aren’t “show quality”, but nobody’s really going to see them anyway and I’m satisfied.
DS front:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=63763&d=1486483654
Flaring:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=63764&d=1486483654
MC to DS rear:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=63780&d=1486483664
DS rear:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=63781&d=1486483664
PS front:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=63981&d=1487036326
Plenty of clearance: http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=63976&d=1487036321
The flares look pretty good, too. Everything fits nice and tight. We’ll see when there’s fluid in the system. The engine is still in, so there really isn’t much room to get in with a drill and riveter. I’ll have to wait until it’s out before I can finish this up.
My set up is pretty normal – two reservoirs so I have the front brakes completely separate from the rears. We already reviewed the difficulty in finding hoses, but my guy at Car Quest came through with these:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=63766&d=1486483655
Too bad he made them wrong. They don’t line up as originally made. Back I go to get them done over…
January 12: I had Dan and Ted over today so we could pull the engine. The astute reader will remember me complaining that the arm on the crane is too short. Guess what: it still is. As Wareaglescott would say, “Another rookie mistake”. The two-ton crane reaches a lot further than a one ton crane. Why did I not know this when I bought the one-ton? Excellent question. Anybody want to buy a slightly used one ton crane? The good news is that by orienting the car on an angle in the garage, we could keep the door closed and still had plenty of room to work. Thank God for space heaters. It’s cold in Chicagoland! (Like the hat?) We got the engine out with a minimum of headache, although it did take a lot longer than it would have if the crane had more reach. Dan promised to bring a two-ton over when the Coyote goes in for the final time.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=63767&d=1486483656
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=63768&d=1486483656
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=63769&d=1486483657
One of the issues the first time around was that I neglected to install the engine mount spacer on the motor mount the first time around. Based on the picture in the Coyote manual, I looked and looked for a similar part. Couldn’t find it. Finally I realized that this right angle shaped bracket- that I couldn’t figure out what it was – is it!
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=63972&d=1487036318
Tried it and confirmed it with FFR. Good. It’s powder coated and ready to go now! Back to the crane for a moment: why do we always bring the crane in from the front? Why not come in from the side? If we did, the arm length issue goes away. Anybody ever try it that way? If I came in from the side, I could probably use two jack stands on the front instead of just one in the center, too?
Once the engine was out I started working on the fuel lines, fastening the brake lines and getting the fuel pressure regulator in place. This stuff always seems to take longer than it should, but really, what’s the hurry? (The plan is still to have this to Jeff K when his shop is ready…) Over the weekend of the 28th/29th, I got the fuel lines in place. For all my hemming and hawing, it wasn’t so bad after all. I had originally wanted to go through the transmission tunnel because it would reduce the amount of bends which should lead to an easier install, but a number of folks (forum and otherwise) talked me out of that. I’m glad I chose the frame route. My biggest concern was having the fuel lines too low on the frame rail lest they be in the way of a jack or lift at some point in the future. I believe I got them as high as I can and everything should be OK. Of course, once the 5/16” feed line was in place I discovered that my filter-to-hard line hose is too short. Whatever. That should be an easy fix.
Vertical fuel hard lines:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=63770&d=1486483657
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=63771&d=1486483658
Going into the engine bay:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=63773&d=1486483659
Another new skill! I learned how to powder coat over the past few weekends. I bought the spray gun and oven late last year, but never really got around to working with it until now. Actually, I took my first shot at powder coating over New Year’s. I got to the point where I needed to hook up the sprayer to the compressor and I found myself staring at incompatible connections. A fixable, but inconvenient problem. Once I got all the right parts, I found it’s pretty easy. The biggest issue is getting everything set up. The oven lives under the workbench, so I have to clear that off, move the oven, pre-heat it while I’m setting up my make-shift paint booth and getting everything else set. The prep work takes about 3 times longer than it does to actually do the powder coating! I don’t know if it’s because the garage is unheated (still winter, remember?) or if because I spilled some powder on the heating element, but I can’t get the oven up to 450. It will go to 400 and that’s about it. At least according to the oven thermometer… Nevertheless, the items I’ve done so far have come out very nicely. I don’t know if it’s necessary, but I’ve been giving them a little more time than specified in the oven.
The professional powder coater I used did my aluminum panels in brilliant sparkle silver. I determined (by getting a sample from them) that the specific color is from Tiger Drylac. Since I have other pieces I want to match, I decided I’d just order brilliant sparkle silver from them. Of course, the minimum order from Tiger is 5 lbs. That ought to be enough for a couple of lifetimes for the amount I’m doing. So I call them up to order and the customer service guy says “I’ll have the sales rep give you a call.” “Why can’t I just order from you?”, I asked. Apparently, they have their processes… Never did hear from the guy. My sense is that Tiger is not eager to sell to individuals rather than professional shops. Whatever. I found a sparkle silver from Easton that’s pretty darn close if not exact. Maybe you’ve had a similar experience?
Over the weekend of Feb 4 and 5 I got the fuel pressure regulator in place. I posted another thread on that here: http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?23377-Will-it-fit
I needed to get that done quickly in my mind, because the longer it takes there, the longer it will take to get the braided lines. I’m getting them from Mike Forte and he needed measurements. That’s a critical path item on the schedule. More photos:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=63645&d=1486327625
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=63779&d=1486483663
OK, here’s the schedule of coming attractions. Next up: get the e-brake cables finished to the handle connection point, then work on aluminum and Thermo-Tec. Since most everything is already drilled, I should be able to get the cockpit done in two weekends. I went with the Thermo-Tec based on Wareaglescott and Jazzman’s experience. I liked his fireplace experiment! If all goes according to plan, I can start wiring in March. That should mean I can get the engine back in place sometime in April. At least, that’s the plan for now.
wareaglescott
02-13-2017, 09:47 PM
Nice progress Al. I like your big updates all at once!
In post 30 you show the picture of the engine mount spacer. In late summer last year FFR came out with a set of new engine mount spacers for the coyote. They actually sandwich between the engine mounts and now there is one for both sides. EdwardB has some good pictures in his build thread post 342. You may want to consider those prior to your final install.
I did not use the spacer you have pictured and used the new ones. They made them after my kit but sent them to me. Other Coyote parts they made after my kit include the clutch position switch mounting brackets and the PCM mount. If you don't have those they are also worthwhile to get in my opinion.
... speaking of my rookie mistakes I once again found the importance of having that crane at full extension when I was installing my 4 post last week. Ended up having to set a heavy load down and reposition that thing again! You would think I would have learned the first time to operate at full extension when possible! haha
Scott, Thanks for the tip on the spacers. Now the manual makes sense. I mentioned that I couldn't find anything matching the picture in the Coyote manual - that's why! The manual shows the "new" style, which I don't have. Checked out Edwardb's post on that. At least I can get them in before the engine is installed...
In our last episode, our hero was hard at work and had some grand plans on timing. For a guy with fixed price project management in his background, he ain’t doin’ so good.
Believe it or not, the last update was 2 and a half months ago! What the heck you been doing, Al? Can’t blame it on your shoulder anymore. Let’s see: four weekends away with family and friends – I think I’ve had three weekends to spend on the build, not counting the family commitments and holidays. I’m not getting a lot of time to spend on the build, but I really can’t complain. So where are we? Let’s take it by topic:
Brakes. I wasted more time than I care to think trying to deal with the reservoir lines. Consider that I wanted to separate my front and rear systems. That means that the adaptaflex line provided by the factory is too short. Also consider that adaptaflex has been discontinued, as far as I can determine, so it’s nearly impossible to find, unless I wanted to get a 100 foot roll. I found a guy at Carquest who made two lines for me with pressed hydraulic fittings. Too bad he made them incorrectly – they didn’t line up with the fittings and were too stiff to twist. So he remakes them and they’re too short. $96 later, I realize that this was a lousy idea to begin with. Those lines are hanging in the garage as yet another marker on my educational path. I spent way too much time on that little diversion! Solution: I found an auto parts store run by a couple of old guys (like me) who actually can solve problems or come up with parts that aren’t tied to a specific make and model! What a concept! OK. Next?
e-brake: I read a fair amount on routing the cables. I decided to go the factory-route, and routed my cables under the four-inch tube. I assembled the handle and did a trial fit. Everything looks good. So far. I think I read something about possible contention with the cables and a safety hoop. Let’s hope that isn’t a problem in the making.
Dashboard and gauges. I started screwing around with the dash mid-March. You may recall from my earlier rants that I’m doing a veneer and I was concerned about how the gauges would fit. I did another thread on that topic here:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?23898-Dashboard-fun
For those who are don’t want to open another page, the issue was that there would be too much slop with the pre-cut dash holes fully opened up. The gauges won’t fit with the smaller openings, but if I open them to the full amount (scored), they’re loose. Typically, they have to be loose, as the vinyl fills in the gap. Well, with a veneer, there is no gap, as nothing is folded over.
Remember the two old guys in the auto parts store? They came up with the perfect O-ring:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=67171&d=1493697371
Obviously, this will get moved; the photo was just a trial fit to ensure the o-ring was close to the right size. Now to figure out where to place the dash. More on that later.
Wiring. Ugh. Let’s take a break for just a moment here. When I started this journey, I was debating between a small block and a Coyote. Hodgkins and Forte said “small block. No question.” Tony Zullo said “go with the Coyote. There’s no question.” My buddy Ken (the NSX guy) said “whatever you do, at least go with EFI.” The complicating factor is this: as GoDadGo has wisely concluded, things get complicated quickly when you go off the reservation. For him, that was going Chevy. For me, that was going Coyote. If you stick to a SBF, I’m convinced, everything falls into place, you don’t need to order additional parts, and the manual is gospel. Change something (i.e. not a SBF) and all bets are off. Well folks, at least twice a week I say to myself “what the **** were you thinking?!” Most of the time (but not always) I also add that I am privileged to have these problems. Really. How many people get to build a car? How many have the desire, patience and everything else that’s required? (not sure I’m all that patient, but I’m working through it) But who am I trying to kid? I am so far over my head it’s scary! I WILL get this done. OK, enough of the motivational self-talk. Back to the issue at hand. Check it out. There are not one, but two wiring harnesses for your ongoing entertainment. The ever-popular RF harness and the no less than daunting Coyote harness. I thought this would be a two-weekend deal. Wrong again, Mr. Confidence.
I’m not sure why I continue to set deadlines (different than goals in my mind). Originally, the key date was to be June 1, when I wanted to be at go kart, but that’s out the window. The only way that would be possible would be to blow off work for the next three weeks. Not gonna happen. So as much as the impatient person in me wants this done, it will get done when it gets done. Whatever.
Back to wiring. Here’s what we’re dealing with.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=67145&d=1493683832
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=67146&d=1493683833
Where does everything go?
One decision made: I got the FFMetal battery box for the trunk. I’m pleased with that decision. It’s still sitting in the cardboard box.
After staring at all these fun challenges for a while, I decided I had my research topics identified for Huntington Beach. I wrote down all my questions and listed my dependencies (yes, still thinking project management) so I’d be prepared for both David’s BBQ and the HB Cruise-In. Here they are:
1. Location of coyote fuse box
2. Harness with grommet goes thru firewall? Center?
3. Bulk of RF and coyote harness behind firewall?
4. Metco safety hoop: will I have contention with the e-brake cables?
5. Location of wiring hole on inside DS footbox
6. Position of dash side connections: examples?
7. Transmission spacers on A-frame?
8. Position of dash vertically?
9. Mid-shift: cut or reinforce?
10. Heater and coyote: plumbing for coolant?
11. Breeze radiator shroud examples
Dependencies:
Amount of bend in dash and location - figure this out before doing the veneer and finishing the veneer; then do gauges.
Size and location of hole in DS footbox for wiring – need this before I can finish the footbox and install thermo-mat.
Location of coyote fusebox before I can run all the wires
OK! I’m ready!
April 28. The big weekend arrived. Nancy and I flew out west for the weekend and got to David and Lesa’s BBQ just as they were putting out all the goodies. Perfect timing, Al! Let’s watch the caloric intake, because I need to ensure I’m in good physical condition for hitting the street on Saturday!
Friday evening was perfect. Nancy and I got into a good conversation with Pete (BigBlocker) and Mike and then Karen Salvaggio came by. They all patiently got to hear my story and Karen said, “I need to introduce you to some people.” Ten seconds later, Frank (Frankeeski) came by and we spent some quality time discussing my build. Frank, you are a saint! We talked through a whole host of issues, one of the biggest being dashboard placement. Nancy really appreciated Karen, too, because they both were teachers. It was a great evening.
Saturday came along and I couldn’t wait to hit Main Street! Nancy was humoring me, but I HAD A MISSION! So, what did I get out of the cruise-in?
1. For the dash, figure out where it goes by trial fitting the body. Never thought of that one. In my parochial way of thinking, the next time the body got friendly with the frame would be when it was mounted for the final time. Frank says “I’ll try the body on the frame four times or so in a build…”
2. Mid-shift interference with the frame: the only time that will be an issue is if you have to drop the tranny. You know what? I think I’ll deal with that when the problem arises. Problem deferred if not solved.
3. Wiring hole in DS footbox. See photo. This is the Edlebrock Mark IV. Very cool. More on this later.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=67149&d=1493683836
4. I saw the dashboard ends on the cut-away car. http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=67150&d=1493683837
5. I saw the wiring routing through the trans tunnel http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=67151&d=1493683838
6. Trans mount spacers. I had a great conversation with Mark (CDXXVII). Among other things, we talked about transmission spacers. His main point is that the trans needs to be parallel (plane-wise) with the IRS pumpkin. Not the same plane, but parallel. GoDadGo wrote up something on this not that long ago – I need to reference that again, too. Nevertheless, I need to fabricate my spacers as planned.
7. Mark also suggested I get shims for the pumpkin from Mike Forte. Need to ask about that.
8. Mark also suggested I look into the Russ Thompson steering shaft/turn signal switch. Good idea.
9. I like Mario’s rearview mirror
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=67153&d=1493683840
10. I wish I could remember the gentleman’s name, but I didn’t write it down. He and his son built a Coyote powered Mark IV and we talked through a bunch of items for 10 minutes or so. Mostly wiring. His point was: use as much of the Coyote harness as you can. Keep the RF harness for just what the Coyote system can’t address.
11. There was a beautiful yellow GTM at the show. Mike owns it. Don’t ask me his last name or forum name. Didn’t ask him… We talked about his paint (House of Kolors “Ice” finish) and his build for a good 10 or 15 minutes. Then I said to him, “I have never sat in a GTM. May I sit in your car?” He agreed, and showed me how to get in and out. Now it was my turn. Oops. Can’t do it. I can’t believe it! I couldn’t get into his car! C’mon, I’m not that old. I’m still pretty flexible. But I couldn’t get in! Well, I guess I won’t tackle one of those anytime soon…
12. I had taken a close look at the Edelbrock roadster earlier in the day, but now I saw the hood was down. I went over to Tony and asked if we could open it up again. I explained what my questions were: fuse box and heater plumbing. Tony was great!
13. Tony recommended I put the coyote fuse box behind the firewall. How will I get to it, then? “Easy” he said. You just mount the dash on the tunnel supports and screw the ends in to the frame. Leave the top loose.” Hmmm – good idea. I like that. I thought I took a photo of that, but alas, I did not!
14. How will I run the coolant hoses between the engine and the heater? “run one hose from the heater to the front of the driver’s side cylinder and run the other heater hose to the front of the passenger side cylinder.” Hmmm – not bad. It doesn’t look like I need any other valves or hoses specifically for that!
Here are some other HB photos:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=67154&d=1493683841
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=67155&d=1493683842
It was a great weekend. Got to make a bunch of new friends and got a lot of answers! Now I just need to find some time to work on the build… Hopefully the next update will be soon.
wareaglescott
05-02-2017, 05:25 AM
Good update Al
On the Metco loop I initially ran the Ebrake cables under the frame as the manual shows. When I went to install the loop I realized if I did the above frame mod they would clear the loop better. Another option would have been to bias the loop towards the drivers side some but I was more comfortable with the loop being centered. I would caution you to figure it out before you put the transmission in. I didn't decide to move the Ebrake lines until I got to the point of installing the loop. It was absolutely a pain in the rear to get the brake handle unbolted to redo with the transmission in position. Pics of the mod and its clearance to the loop in my thread.
EdwardB did a great job laying all the coyote electrical components out. I followed his positions and everything worked great. His build thread has some great pics where he located everything.
Transmission spacers - took 3/4" for me with the coyote/tko/irs. I made three 1/4" spacers and sandwiched them together so I had the ability to modify the width if need be. Ended up with perfect alignment. I copied EdwardB on these. He needed the same 3/4". Didn't use any shims on the IRS pumpkin. Pictures of the spacers in my thread as well.
You may very well know this about the heater and the coyote but I did not until late in the game so I will mention it. (Assuming you used the FFR heater) With the Coyote setup the fluid has to be continuously circulating through the system. This is different than other engines in which the heater only has fluids running through it during operation. This requires you to install some extra components that don't come with the heater. I didn't figure this out until I had the engine installed and getting something mounted through the firewall at that point was going to be a challenge. I was on the fence on the heater anyways so at that point I decided against, removed what I had already installed and sold my heater. Decided to just go with seat heaters. With that being said I am not very educated on what it actually would have taken to get it plumbed correctly. I just know it was more that I was anticipating. I would suggest you look into that if you aren't aware.
Glad to see the progress! Hope you get some more time upcoming to work on it!
edwardb
05-02-2017, 05:51 AM
EdwardB did a great job laying all the coyote electrical components out. I followed his positions and everything worked great. His build thread has some great pics where he located everything.
Transmission spacers - took 3/4" for me with the coyote/tko/irs. I made three 1/4" spacers and sandwiched them together so I had the ability to modify the width if need be. Ended up with perfect alignment. I copied EdwardB on these. He needed the same 3/4". Didn't use any shims on the IRS pumpkin. Pictures of the spacers in my thread as well.
Thanks for the shout out Scott. With the PDB on the front of the firewall and the PCM on the DS outside the hood 3/4-inch tubes (about the only place it can go given the lengths of cable off the engine) the Coyote harness pretty much falls into place. I honestly don't think it can go behind the firewall as Tony suggested. Unless maybe with the firewall forward mod, but I doubt this is what he was talking about. I can only guess this advice was maybe considering the previous Coyote version where the PDB is much smaller and putting it behind the dash was the usual practice. Even if you could jam it in there, I don't understand the trade-off of having things removable so it can be accessible. Once the engine and body is installed, the PDB on the firewall is certainly not an appearance issue (at least IMO) and it's open and accessible. The interface between the Coyote harness and the RF harness is also pretty straightforward. I would strongly suggest using the Coyote setup 100% for starting and cooling fan operation. This is a little different than the FF Coyote instructions. Details about this are in my build thread plus a spreadsheet with all the point-to-point wiring. Let me know if you have any questions.
With the FF engine mount spacers and Energy mounts and TKO trans, a 3/4-inch transmission spacer seems to be about the norm. Of course check yours, but I suspect that will be about right. I don't understand the comments about the IRS spacers. I suspect that's again a throwback to the previous version. The T-Bird based IRS has horizontal mounts on the front that could take spacers. That's not the case with the newer 2015+ Mustang based IRS. There are four bolts for the mounting ears, and they'll only go in one position.
FWIW, and to maybe help you feel better about your Coyote vs. SBF choice, I've had both. I thought my carb'd SBF's ran great. After they were dialed in which in both cases wasn't a small task. Thought about going to EFI with both at one time or another, but that's not a sure thing either. The Coyote runs perfectly out of the box. Each time I start and drive it I'm amazed. Get through the wiring and I think you'll find you made the right choice.
OK, the interval between updates is not getting any shorter. Last one was May 1. This one is July 11. Hmmm. Nope, no closer. Whatever. You already know about my time constraints. I’ve gotten over that. Let’s move on.
First order of business: what I did when I got back from HB: I mounted the PCM.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=70118&d=1499718123
That was a feeling of accomplishment! There’s part of the wiring in place! FFR made up some new, modified PCM brackets; Dan sent me one and it fits perfectly. Check that off. Next up: the power distribution box. Hmmm. I have to make a pretty big hole in the firewall for this part. No problem. That only involved one trip to the hardware store. (didn’t have a 2” hole saw hanging around…) I toyed with the best way to mount the box to the frame and finally decided to drill all the way through the 2” tube and put bolts all the way through. That worked out pretty well. That box is not going anywhere anytime soon.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=70117&d=1499718122
I finally got the brake reservoirs mounted. They were waiting on final placement depending on how I was going to run the lines. Little by little, things are moving along!
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=70119&d=1499718123
After the reservoirs were in place, I was able to run the front wiring harness. That went in pretty easily.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=70146&d=1499781825
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=70145&d=1499781824
The Metco hoop arrived. It’s a nice piece. Well made and easy to install. Doesn’t look like there will be any interference with the e-brake cables. We’ll see, but I feel pretty good about that.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=70120&d=1499718123
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=70121&d=1499718124
I learned a lot about the Russ Thompson turn signal while I was at HB. Russ and I had a good conversation on the phone and I sent him my steering wheel hub to finish off. We both knew it was going to be a while, but I knew I was going to be unavailable most of June, so it wasn’t an issue.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=70148&d=1499781826
Speaking of June, we did a little excursion to Italy. I’ll spare the details here, but these two photos are kind of fun:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=70122&d=1499718124
We traveled through Barolo country, just outside Alba in Italy. Alba is in the Piedmonte region. It has nothing to do with cars, other than this photo was taken from one. But, for those of you who enjoy red wine: here they are. Vineyards as far as the eye can see. From first-hand experience, Italian wine is very, very good.
We also spent some time in Lucca, in the Tuscany region. One day, walking to the train station, I spotted this Citroen. It pretty much demanded that I take a photo. Here it is!
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=70123&d=1499718125
During these past weeks, I’ve been going through Coyote and wiring documentation. It’s starting to make sense. A lot of my friends keep telling me it’s all “plug and play”. I’m getting closer to believing that, but I’m still not quite there. What I am learning is that I can’t just review the instructions, look at the picture and do it. It takes a little more study than that. The impatient part of me is having a problem with that (see above noted time constraints), but the rational part of me is stressing that I take my time and actually try to do it right! So far, rational Al is winning. Sort of.
There were two critical path items that have been bugging me since April. Or before. Yes, definitely before. One was the fuel lines going in to the fuel pressure regulator. That Aeromotive part has been patiently waiting for lines to be attached. Why the delay? No sense worrying about that.
I decided at the outset, or at least when I started way back when I put in the fuel tank, that I was going to go with FFR sized lines. 5/16 for the feed and ¼ for the return. Studies have been done, it’s been published on this forum – a 5/16 feed line will support the needs of the Coyote. So I ran the lines, got all the connections right from the tank to the hard lines and then just needed to connect to the pressure regulator. I ordered my parts last January. Mike Forte made some terrific braided lines for the regulator. Getting the right size hard line to AN connectors was a pain, but finally, everything is connected. Hard line to braided line to fuel pressure regulator. I should probably secure these in some manner, but I’m not sure there’s going to be a lot of vibration on the frame side. (I’m sure someone will have an opinion)
The second critical path item was cutting the DS footbox so I could get the rear harness installed. There were several items dependent on that task. I had to run the rear harness, I couldn’t finish off the inside wall of the footbox without the hole, I needed to understand how big to make the hole and I needed a grommet that would fit.
Once the wiring was laid out, I went in search of how to get through the footbox. I knew where I wanted to run it, so I had the option of either cutting in from the edge (which would allow for a smaller hole, or making a hole large enough for the plastic connectors to fit through. I found a second grommet in the Coyote controls pack bag. Actually, that wasn’t an original idea, Straversi did this too! I already had one grommet on the harness itself. Apparently this grommet was for a second hole in the firewall for the power connections. Once I confirmed I didn’t need a second hole, my decision was made. Cut the hole, installed the harness, stuck on the thermo-pak and finished up the footbox. Sounds easy, right? That took most of the afternoon… I know what you’re thinking: way too anal.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=70144&d=1499781824
My FFMetal battery box arrived and aged a few weeks in the garage before I even thought about putting it in. Now would probably be a good time. In it went. Bill has a good product there – it fits well out of the box (just minor adjustments) and the instructions are pretty straightforward. Now I know where my rear wires will go.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=70124&d=1499718125
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=70125&d=1499718125
Almost forgot. Frankeeski told me that the best way to line up the dashboard vertically is to put the gauges in the dash, trial fit the body and see where everything goes. The dash, with gauges, but no switches, is temporarily clamped and ready for a body fit! As a side benefit to having the body on, I’m thinking about trial fitting the in-line fuse. Typically, this box
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=70147&d=1499781825
would go behind the dash. That’s about a four foot run from the battery. Even the Ford instructions say install it within a foot of the battery. I’m thinking of mounting it on a trunk sidewall, but want to check accessibility. Yup, let’s get the body on. Opinions on this are welcome, too.
Next up: get the coyote where it belongs. Mr. Impatient wants this done and out of the way. I have to move the engine on the dolly just to get at my tool box. Mr. Rational has been doing his best to delay this little job. I think we’re ready. I’ve taken care of just about everything in the engine bay that will be inaccessible afterwards. I got rid of the small crane and got one that should work (2 ton). The only things I haven’t done in preparation are installing mounts on the block and oil/water senders. The headers, mounts and transmission spacers are good to go. My engine stand is in the way of the header and sender spots, but my buddy Dan and I agree that we can deal with those things when the engine is on the lift. Sunday is the day. I’ll probably have three guys helping. That should be more than enough.
As I write this, I’m thinking “hey wait, you don’t have much to deal with on Saturday. Why not trial fit the body then?” A good idea, but is it too optimistic? (Yes…) We’ll see. Maybe we’ll get another update next week!
wareaglescott
07-11-2017, 11:01 AM
Good update Al. We will look for another about Sept 1! Haha
Jeff Kleiner
07-11-2017, 11:51 AM
Looking really good Al!
Jeff
FFinisher
07-11-2017, 03:28 PM
Almost forgot. Frankeeski told me that the best way to line up the dashboard vertically is to put the gauges in the dash, trial fit the body and see where everything goes. The dash, with gauges, but no switches, is temporarily clamped and ready for a body fit! As a side benefit to having the body on, I’m thinking about trial fitting the in-line fuse. Typically, this box
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=70147&d=1499781825
would go behind the dash. That’s about a four foot run from the battery. Even the Ford instructions say install it within a foot of the battery. I’m thinking of mounting it on a trunk sidewall, but want to check accessibility. Yup, let’s get the body on. Opinions on this are welcome, too.
Next up: get the coyote where it belongs. Mr. Impatient wants this done and out of the way. I have to move the engine on the dolly just to get at my tool box. Mr. Rational has been doing his best to delay this little job. I think we’re ready. I’ve taken care of just about everything in the engine bay that will be inaccessible afterwards. I got rid of the small crane and got one that should work (2 ton). The only things I haven’t done in preparation are installing mounts on the block and oil/water senders. The headers, mounts and transmission spacers are good to go. My engine stand is in the way of the header and sender spots, but my buddy Dan and I agree that we can deal with those things when the engine is on the lift. Sunday is the day. I’ll probably have three guys helping. That should be more than enough.
As I write this, I’m thinking “hey wait, you don’t have much to deal with on Saturday. Why not trial fit the body then?” A good idea, but is it too optimistic? (Yes…) We’ll see. Maybe we’ll get another update next week!
I put those behind the dash, with the fuse box. Yep its about 6 feet from the battery, But nobody cares.! Pretty sure it has no idea.
Can you believe it? Only one week between updates!
Yesterday was a good day. The engine is in. The actual installation didn’t take all that long, but getting ready certainly did. Nothing is quick, at least not in my garage. I spent the better part of Saturday afternoon getting everything prepped, and got the group together Sunday afternoon for the event. Ted was debating if we needed him (as the fourth). I’m glad he was there. Here’s what I learned and how it all came together.
Fortunately, on Friday I decided to check the header bolts. I went the stage 8 locking bolt route. I had ordered the coarse thread bolts from Summit, based on what it said in the catalog. If I had thought about that for a minute or so, I would have remembered that the studs I pulled from the block were fine thread. Needless to say, the coarse thread bolts didn’t fit. Thank God for Saturday delivery! It was an expensive (in shipping) lesson, but I got the right bolts delivered on time. Next up was getting all the prep work done on the engine itself – like motor mounts, transmission mounts, water temp sender and oil pressure sender. Everything was good with the exception of the water temp sender adapter. I described that little obstacle in this thread here:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?25194-Coyote-Water-Temp-Sender-did-they-change-the-size
After I posted that thread, I took a quick trip to the hardware store and got an adapter that did the trick. Then I saw JDAV’s response that he found one in the kit. Yes, I had one too – it was in the oil filter relocation bag. Like JDAV, I used that one and can return the other one to Ace.
Here are some photos of the install.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=70659&d=1500305998
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=70660&d=1500305999
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=70661&d=1500305999
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=70663&d=1500306000
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=70666&d=1500306001
Four people worked well because it allowed us to have one on the crane, one on each side and one holding the transmission down. We raised the front end just enough to get the crane legs under the frame, and had the rear end up on jack stands. The angle helped a lot. Having the right engine hoist also helped. Last time I tried this exercise it was with a one-ton hoist. It just didn’t have enough reach. I sold that one, got the two-ton and everything worked much, much better. Having the experience from the trial fit last fall also helped. We knew where the problems were going to be and were able to avoid just about all of them. It’s a much tighter fit when the headers are mounted!
Next up: this week will be all about getting everything organized again and moving ahead on fine points, like tightening all of the bolts and lining up the transmission. There are some questions about how much clearance I have for the J-pipes. I used the older style “L-shaped” motor mount spacers on both sides of the block. I’m wondering if I’m going to need shims on the mounts to keep the J-pipes from rubbing the frame. Thoughts on that subject (or the torque specs for the driveshaft, which I didn’t see in the manual) are appreciated! I’m excited about moving into a new phase of the build. The good news is that I feel like we’ve made a lot of progress over the past three weeks and things are starting to come together.
wareaglescott
07-17-2017, 01:19 PM
Congrats Al that is a huge step. I know you are proud when you head out to the garage and see it sitting in place!
Have you held the J pipes in position to see if they rub or not?
Congrats Al that is a huge step. I know you are proud when you head out to the garage and see it sitting in place!
Have you held the J pipes in position to see if they rub or not?
I plan to check that when I get home later today. I believe you have a similar setup. How close are yours to the frame?
wareaglescott
07-17-2017, 03:47 PM
I couldn't find a good picture and I'm not home. Not close enough that I had any concern about them hitting. I guess it just depends on the difference of the mount thickness like you said. Hope it works out without any issues.
Well, Scott thought my next update would be Sept 1. Pretty close. It’s the 3rd, today!
The end of July and all of August really zipped by. Too much travel for work, and a bunch of family related stuff. It’s all good. Mostly. Let’s get to it:
In our last update, the engine went in. It’s still there. Being there, it raised a number of questions, some of which we’ve answered and others that remain. Perhaps you have some of them!
1. J-pipes. Answered.
2. Clutch cable. Not answered.
3. Speedo cable. Not answered.
4. Mid shift. Not answered.
5. Backup light switch. Sort of answered.
6. Power steering reservoir location. Not answered.
7. Dash position. Sort of answered.
8. Oil plug on pan. Not answered
Here’s the detail.
J-pipes. Here’s what they look like in place.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=70704&d=1500341043
Based on feedback from Dan at FFR, they should be fine. I know that Wareagle Scott had a problem with the weld giving way – let’s hope these are OK.
Clutch cable. Based on my experience at build school, I decided to go with a cable operated clutch. It was pretty easy on a small block. Not sure if it’s easy here or not. Whatever. Here’s the issue:
I can run the cable on the inside of the steering shaft and underneath the headers. So far, so good. I have this lovely bracket on the cable:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=73202&d=1504488014
The thought is that I can chop off the end of the bracket, drill a rather large hole to match the lift bracket bolt, and attach the cable to the block at one of the lift mount positions. Opinions???
Speedo cable. I attempted to hijack Bill3422’s thread here: http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?25645-Speedo-Calibration
But that didn’t work out so well. Got one reply that said it didn’t make any difference which way you connect it. I’d love to get some more opinions on that. Here’s the photo that shows the problem: pigtail wires are both white; cable to the gauge is one white one black. Which way?
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=72956&d=1504029014
Mid shift. I thought this was solved. Not so. Now that I have the proper spacers in place on the engine and the tranny, the tranny is much higher relative to the frame. That “little” change made a world of difference on the mid-shift. Here are a few photos that highlight the issue:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=73190&d=1504471583
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=73189&d=1504471567
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=73188&d=1504471543
The last time I raised this topic, there was a pretty good discussion (with no real conclusion) on whether to chop out the brace or notch it and back it up with steel bar. I had decided I was going to leave it and see what happened. Considering that I can’t get the holes lined up in order to bolt it in, I have to do one or the other. Got an opinion? I’m interested in hearing it. BTW – which way does this go? It looks like it fits either way and the instructions (hand drawn…) don’t really specify.
9/3 continues.
..
Back up lights. I have the backup light switch. Given that, I might as well have a backup light, right? Straversi started a thread here: http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?25699-Back-up-light-California that was helpful. I like the solution that Boat737 came up with. I think that’s the approach I’m going to take. I believe I just need to run a wire through the rear harness to go to the light; the other line off the fixture will be the ground. Then I need one line to the fuse box for power. Not sure where I’m going to connect that yet.
Power Steering reservoir. I’ve been struggling with where to mount the PS reservoir. The perfect spot in my mind is already taken up by the PS cylinder head, so that’s out. How about this spot? Opinions?
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=73191&d=1504471598
Top frame rail, the front of the reservoir body is about 2 ½ inches behind the X frame member.
Dash position. Last weekend, Ted, Dan and Nancy helped me trial fit the body. That little adventure was mentioned here: http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?25639-Body-test-fit-question
The net of that test was that I have a good approximate place to mount right angle brackets so I can mount the dash. Ted, my airplane-builder friend, has all sorts of interesting aluminum tools and rivets and he’s promised a good solution. We’ll get that done in a few weeks, probably.
Last issue: oil pan plug. Here’s the item in question:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=73201&d=1504487701
Maybe I just haven’t looked hard enough yet. Nevertheless, I can’t find anything indicating what, if anything get’s plugged into this thing. Your insights are appreciated!
OK, now that we got through the list of open items, what did I actually get done? Well…. I guess I raised more questions than got things done. Monday (Labor Day) should be a good day – I plan to work on the radiator shroud and mounts. I’d like to finish the power steering connections before I do the radiator for accessibility, but I need to get the hoses sorted out first. I’ll go as far as I can…
edwardb
09-03-2017, 10:11 PM
Couple of responses to your questions:
Speedo cable. Here I don't understand your picture. You show a connector that I believe is meant to go into the speed sensor on the TKO? And you show a 2-wire pigtail that looks to me like the cable from the Speedhut gauge package. You shouldn't need either. Your Ron Francis rear harness should already have a plug that goes directly into the TKO speed sensor. I used the internal sensor on the PS (right) side of the TKO. You'll need a plug for the external sensor location on the DS (left) side. Then the only connections for the speed sensor are the two wires in the RF dash harness directly to the gauge. And polarity doesn't matter on those wires.
Oil pan plug. That's an oil level sensor. I've been told that sensor input isn't active for the 2011-2014 Coyote crate. Might be the same for the 2015+ version, but I don't know for sure. There should be a pigtail already on your engine harness. I went ahead and plugged it in.
Power Steering reservoir. Where you pictured yours is right where I put mine as well. It's working out OK. I had to work a little to get the gravity feed hose from the bottom of the reservoir connected to the pump. It was pretty close and a tight bend. But I found some hose that was flexible enough. You have a different reservoir and pump than me, so orientations could be different. Just something to check before finalizing the location.
Couple of responses to your questions:
Speedo cable. Here I don't understand your picture. You show a connector that I believe is meant to go into the speed sensor on the TKO? And you show a 2-wire pigtail that looks to me like the cable from the Speedhut gauge package. You shouldn't need either. Your Ron Francis rear harness should already have a plug that goes directly into the TKO speed sensor. I used the internal sensor on the PS (right) side of the TKO. You'll need a plug for the external sensor location on the DS (left) side. Then the only connections for the speed sensor are the two wires in the RF dash harness directly to the gauge. And polarity doesn't matter on those wires.
Oil pan plug. That's an oil level sensor. I've been told that sensor input isn't active for the 2011-2014 Coyote crate. Might be the same for the 2015+ version, but I don't know for sure. There should be a pigtail already on your engine harness. I went ahead and plugged it in.
Power Steering reservoir. Where you pictured yours is right where I put mine as well. It's working out OK. I had to work a little to get the gravity feed hose from the bottom of the reservoir connected to the pump. It was pretty close and a tight bend. But I found some hose that was flexible enough. You have a different reservoir and pump than me, so orientations could be different. Just something to check before finalizing the location.
Yup, there it is, hiding under the firewall. I just didn't pull the rear harness back enough to see it. The connection is right there where you'd said it would be! That makes life easier. Thanks!
2bking
09-04-2017, 10:33 AM
Mid shift. I thought this was solved. Not so. Now that I have the proper spacers in place on the engine and the tranny, the tranny is much higher relative to the frame. That “little” change made a world of difference on the mid-shift. Here are a few photos that highlight the issue:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=73189&d=1504471567
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=73188&d=1504471543
The last time I raised this topic, there was a pretty good discussion (with no real conclusion) on whether to chop out the brace or notch it and back it up with steel bar. I had decided I was going to leave it and see what happened. Considering that I can’t get the holes lined up in order to bolt it in, I have to do one or the other. Got an opinion? I’m interested in hearing it. BTW – which way does this go? It looks like it fits either way and the instructions (hand drawn…) don’t really specify.
I have the same Mid shift and it lined up almost exactly as yours. I didn't think I would ever have to get the transmission out once installed for the final time but Murphy knows better. To get the transmission out without pulling the engine, the mid shift has to be removed so you will need access to the four bolts below the frame tube and the top of the tunnel needs to be removable to do this. I cut and rewelded the frame tube for clearance around the mid shift just because I had a welder handy but you don't have to do it that way. Unless you are racing and can tell the difference in the stiffness change of the frame with that piece of frame removed, the method of clearancing around the mid shift is mute except for needing access to the four bolts from inside the car with the tunnel top removed.
The problem with removing just the transmission is that it needs to slide backwards over the 4" cross tube until the input shaft can clear the bell housing hole. The further back the transmission slides the narrower the tunnel gets and less room to manipulate it. The shift lever sticking out and the tower hit the frame tubes in other places than the one that needs to be clearance no matter how it is twisted thus stopping rearward travel. Removing the mid shift tower allows the transmission to slide backward for removal. I've had mine out four or more times chasing a vibration issue and it takes about 30 minutes to have it on the ground using a lift to get the car in the air.
As for which way it mounts, I don't remember it making a difference. If it does make a difference, the location that makes the shift lever vertical when in neutral would be the correct one.
Thanks, King. No plans on racing. That said, I still like the re-weld option best. If I can find somebody in the next month or so, I'll go that route. Otherwise, I cut it out and be done with it.
Made some decent progress today. The goal was to get the radiator and shroud out of the way. Everything is assembled and ready to install. I used Breeze's shroud, upper and lower mounting kits. As others have noted, Mark's stuff works pretty well. I think the most time-consuming task was marking and cutting the shroud. My photo here resembles many others. Gee - I wonder why? Thank God for this forum! Here's the before:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=73245&d=1504572829
And the after:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=73246&d=1504572841
Here's the hinge. 14 rivets! They may not all be in a perfect line, but I highly doubt anybody is going to be looking at them...
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=73247&d=1504572854
and ready to go:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=73248&d=1504572866
Next up: get it mounted. Maybe next weekend? We'll see how it goes. I need to get the Power Steering dealt with, too, but that's on hold pending a couple of connectors.
GoDadGo
09-04-2017, 08:52 PM
1. You Will Be Kicking Some Asphalt Sooner Than You Think!
2. Masterpieces take longer to paint than your living room.
3. #8,515 was delivered on 01/27/2015 so don't fret.
4. We did our 1st start in June & now Go-Karting.
https://youtu.be/aYq4PubfeMU
https://youtu.be/yL4UmpII9ek
Thanks, Steve! Congrats on your go-kart run. I have to check out your video... I've started comparing photos from when I started to now and that usually makes me feel better about my progress!
It’s high time I update this thread. It’s only been 7 weeks… Last time we were all set to mount the radiator. The PS reservoir was in and ready to get connected. You’ve heard the old story about three steps forward and two back? That guy was optimistic!
Before I put the radiator in place, I thought it would make sense to get all the connections for the power steering in place. I had already mounted the reservoir on the PS frame rail, and I got my hoses and fittings from Breeze. I got everything all connected, secured the hoses in place and thought I was good to go. It is easier to deal with this stuff without other parts in the way. Next, get the radiator mounted before something bumps into it in the garage.
The radiator went in uneventfully. I used the Breeze upper and lower mounts and they worked as advertised. Ted the airplane builder had an angle finder that makes easy work of stuff like this: the radiator is sitting at a perfect 51 degrees. That’s probably the only thing that’s perfectly aligned on the car at this point.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=74253&d=1506610151
Once that was in place I started working on the cooling system. That, in and of itself, raised a whole host of questions. Consider that we’re dealing with the factory assembly manual and the Coyote assembly manual. And that I’m dealing with a heater. It will be OK. Suck it up, Al. Here are the issues: 1) the instructions are unclear on how to route the hoses to and from the heater with the Coyote. Dan at FFR was a huge help. He explained it, I drew out a schematic of what I understood, and he confirmed it.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=75836&d=1508805497
Crappy drawing, but it got the point across. Additionally, we talked about the expansion tank. A lot. I also talked about that little item with a number of you! There were a variety of responses ranging from “use the kit piece” to “get a different tank” to “try it and see how it goes”. That’s the approach I’m choosing. Next item: where am I going to mount the expansion tank? I posted the question here:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?26005-Yet-another-opportunity-to-express-your-opinion
The net effect of that conversation was “Hey! You gotta move the reservoir!” Terrific. That means move the item itself along with all the hoses, which incidentally will need to be adjusted, lengthwise. Whatever. It’s better that I deal with this now rather than later. So, over the past few weeks, I’ve fabricated and powder coated new brackets to mount the PS reservoir and expansion tank on the X frame. Here are some less-than-outstanding shots of those:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=75518&d=1508202340
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=75516&d=1508202300
Just to be sure about the location and that I wouldn’t be causing more problems down the road, I decided to get the air filter in place. I got the nice, shiny elbow out, assembled the MAF into it’s new home and plopped the air filter on the end. But… it doesn’t fit. What’s up with that? It’s like 2 inches too long! A review of other logs proved, that yes, yours truly is not the first person to notice that little blip. So, do I trim the elbow or what? Check it out:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=75517&d=1508202326
Wareaglescott gave me the part number for a shorter air filter. That will solve the problem. Then Dan stopped by. He had helped with the engine install (and a bunch of other things). His recommendation: extend the air intake tubing and get the intake outside the engine bay. Good idea, but now we’re looking at more fabrication… Still debating that, but open to suggestions.
Back to the power steering. When I took the rack to reservoir hose connection off the reservoir, I thought it was much harder to loosen than it was to tighten. When I finally got it all apart, the threads on the bottom of the reservoir looked questionable. Consider that the reservoir is aluminum and the fittings are brass. That shouldn’t make that much difference (hopefully) and it had Teflon tape on it. I would think that would lubricate it from an installation perspective rather than make things bind. Nevertheless, this is a potential problem. Here’s what we’re dealing with:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=75832&d=1508805386
Dan recommends I get aluminum fittings to replace the brass ones, so that everything will expand and contract at the same rate. The potential concern here is that cracks could develop around the openings in the bottom of the reservoir. I suspect that a number of you will have an opinion. I’d love to hear it!
It seems I have a lot of sub-projects going on right now. Wiring, PS, cooling system, trans tunnel adjustment, battery box, air filter, dashboard. I need to start checking some of these off as “complete”! To that end, I advanced my dashboard a bit over the past several weeks. I may have documented here at one point or another that I’d doing a wood veneer on the dash. I’m using a cherry veneer that I’ll stain and coat with exterior clear gloss urethane. I was thinking about how I’m going to hold everything in place so I can cement the veneer onto the dash itself. So, I grabbed a couple of 2x8s, trimmed the ends to match the curve in the aluminum piece and voila! I have a dashboard buck. Probably overkill, but it works pretty well. It will be a lot easier to get the veneer on, at least in my mind. As soon as I finish laying out switches and lights, as well as drill the holes for them, I can get that part wrapped up. Here’s what I’m describing:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=75519&d=1508202360
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=75520&d=1508202373
While we’re on the dashboard topic, I was thinking about lights. Here’s what I have:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=75769&d=1508717568
Two green (turn signals)
One blue (high beams)
One orange
One red
From the looks of it, the orange is generally used as an alternator light. I’m wondering if I’m going to need/want that in a Coyote environment. Especially considering I need to have a MIL in the mix. That could be the red, or it could be the orange. I’m sure there are a million uses for a light, but I’m coming up blank right now.
Finally, I got the battery box done, so that can be checked off as “done”!
I’ve been procrastinating on wiring – frankly, because I’m a bit overwhelmed by it. This weekend I decided that it was time to bite the proverbial bullet and deal with it. This past week included two business trips, so I had enough airplane time that I could re-read the Coyote controls pack manual, the RF wiring manual, and printed commentary (build threads) from a number of Coyote builders. Yes, people do look at me like I’m from another planet when I’m going through all this stuff on-board… Wareaglescott gets away with it because he has a door between him and everybody else!
I decided I needed to label everything and then install the wires. It’s much easier when the real thing (wire harness) is right in front of you. So that’s what I did. The scary part is that I think I’m starting to understand it all. The problem with that is that every time I think I know what I’m doing, I get my head handed to me. Well, we did OK this weekend. I worked through the control pack and now I have a whole bunch of questions. Here goes. Maybe you even have an answer/opinion…
1. I’m going to run the RF rear harness down the passenger side of the transmission tunnel. That really isn’t a question. Then, the speedo connection will fit better and the battery box won’t be in the way. The question part of it is that I may run the coyote power cable on the driver side. Then again, maybe I can eliminate one of the battery cables? I’m thinking yes. Need to read more on that.
2. On the Coyote controls pack: I’m thinking of running “takeout HH” horizontally between the lower frame rail and the pedal box (nope, no pedal interference). This way the clutch switches will fit on top and bottom. I can run the OBDII cable along the outside bottom frame rail.
3. I’m thinking of mounting the OBDII connection on the vertical 2x2 frame piece. So it would be on the inside of the 2x2 vertical piece, facing toward the rear. I can do it in one of two places: on the bottom of the horizontal tube or on the side of the vertical tube. http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=75835&d=1508805430 http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=75833&d=1508805402
THOUGHTS?
4. C160A pigtail (again, Coyote controls pack…): the blunt lead (4) goes to the black wire on the MIL light. The instructions say the blunt lead 9 goes to the same place. Really?
5. Leads 12 and 13: What the heck are CAN lines?
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=75770&d=1508717581
6. The power cable that connects the power distribution box to the battery has two connections on each end. The engine compartment ends connect to the ground connection off the controls pack harness and the other lead connects to the power distribution box. I can pull that all the way back to the battery (I have the FFMetal battery box in the trunk). Which leads to this question:
7. Where to put the in-line fuse? Battery box? Behind the dash? Near the battery box? I have to cut the cable anyway, so it doesn’t really matter. Or maybe I run one cable from the battery to a bus, then split what I need for the engine (hot at all times) and for the RF Harness. Then I can put the FFR cutoff switch on the RF side. Just thinking out loud, so to speak.
8. UEGOs: The wire connections seem rather short. It would appear (at least to this novice eye) that there is only ONE connection on the rear of the PS cylinder head.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=75771&d=1508717597
How the heck am I supposed to connect to this thing and have it reach the J-pipe? The instructions seem to frown on extensions…
9. OK, after the fact, I read the FFR coyote book again. It seems to dismiss the instructions relative to the C160A pigtail. Hmmm? Go with the Ford instructions or go with what FFR documents?
With your opinions, I can start cutting and splicing and crimping. And soldering. Fun. Well, all of it is fun except the soldering. That’s a PITA. Now I can look at integrating the RF harness better, and finalize the rear harness. I’m not even going to try to guess when first start will be. Too much going on between work and family to venture a guess. Whatever. It will happen soon.
EdwardBs wiring spreadsheet helped me immensely: http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?18591-EdwardBs-Mk4-8674-20th-Anniversary-Build&p=243285&viewfull=1#post243285
Straversi
10-23-2017, 11:03 PM
Man, you have a lot going on at one time. Everyone works differently but your questions are starting to overlap so it might help if you tackle and master one system at a time.
You have a Coyote engine. If you wire it like EdwardB and you have the Speedhut gauges you won't have a speedo connection on your transmission. When you get your engine wiring sorted out you will find you probably won't need all of the indicator lights so I'd slow down on the dash.
You are running a heater with your Coyote so I'd get your coolant system sorted out before you worry about mounting your overflow tank.
All of this was new to me so I tackled them in order:
Battery to engine bay wiring first
Install engine
Engine and gauge wiring
Coolant system
Power steering
Air intake
Dash mounting, switches etc.
I'm an ex-aerospace guy and we overthink. You might want to remind your airplane buddy Dan that this is a car and not a jet fighter. Brass fitting in an aluminum tank will be fine. Nothing should be getting hot enough to worry about different expansion coefficients. Not sure where he is recommending you mount your air filter outside the engine bay. Outside the engine bay is inside the wheel well. I trimmed the elbow and used the shorter air filter. Keep it simple.
I hope you don't take offence to any of these comments. If you can handle all of these projects at once, more power to you. I'm sure people read my build thread and think, this dude moves so slow.
-Steve
edwardb
10-24-2017, 12:26 AM
Random thoughts while going through your updates:
1. I haven't seen any solutions to hooking up an alternator light using the Coyote harness. Personally, I wouldn't bother trying to figure it out. You have a voltage gauge. You'll find you're scanning the gauges regularly (oil pressure, water temp, etc.) so a light doesn't add anything IMO. Plus the Coyote alternator is OE rock solid.
2. You absolutely need the MIL from the Coyote harness. So be sure it's one of your indicator lights. The Ford instructions are confusing and contradictory on how to hook it up though. Rather than explain it here, hooking it up as described in the spreadsheet that Jdav linked works.
3. Nothing in your installation is going to use the CAN bus wires.
4. My recommendation would be to move the ODB2 connector somewhere else. It's congested in the areas you show, plus kind of in the path of getting in and out. If you ever want a tuner attached for loading, real time monitoring, etc., nice to have the connection away from where you're driving. I'd recommend more to the center or even on the passenger side. There's plenty of cable in the harness to locate it elsewhere.
5. You obviously found the O2 cable connector on the right side of the engine by the rear of the cylinder head. The left side connector is low on the engine down near the engine mount. I would not recommend trying to cut and solder extensions to the O2 cables. I did, and it's very tedious with the insulation and wire used. Plus it's not recommended, although I did extend mine (after some work...) and they seem to work OK. I'd recommend getting plug-in extensions as needed though. That's what I'll be doing the next time.
6.The FF Coyote instructions don't go into any detail on the C160A Inline to I/P Pigtail Connector. Follow the Ford instructions. Also show this quite a bit in my build thread FWIW.
7. Not sure I understand Steve's (Straversi) comment that if you wire like mine with the Speedhut gauges you won't have a speedo connection on your transmission. If you have the GPS gauges (like mine), the vehicle speed sensor (VSS) connection at the trans isn't required. If you don't have GPS gauges, just wire it like shown in the Ron Francis schematic. All separate from the Coyote wiring.
8. Looks like you received the longer air filter that Forte has been providing in the Coyote setup. Use the shorter one others have mentioned and you'll be fine. I don't doubt that routing the intake away from the engine compartment and pulling in cooler air is better. Ford boxes their intake for a reason. But I'm not sure it's worth the trouble unless you're trying to wring the last bit of performance from the engine. Especially for street only use. I would recommend rotating your MAP sensor around a little bit more. The instructions seem pretty adamant about it being on the front of the intake, 180 degrees from the throttle body.
Hope these comments are useful. Good luck. You're at a challenging point. But it's worth it!
wareaglescott
10-24-2017, 06:20 AM
My OBD plug is positioned as you show in your first photo in post 59. Works fine there for me. The only time it was an issue was when I was data logging for the custom tune and had to run my tuner cord over the top of the steering wheel to plug into the laptop in the passenger seat. EdwardBs location suggestion would help in that scenario. Other than that I like it where it is.
For dash lights I have the 2 green for the blinkers, one blue for the high beams, and 1 amber for the MIL. I have not felt the need for anything other than those at any point so far. As EdwardB mentioned the voltage gauge is regularly in your scan.
In theory moving the air filter out of the engine compartment sounds reasonable but the reality of doing so does not seem like a great idea. As Steve mentioned that would put it in the wheel well. I have been very pleased with the shorter filter. Easiest solution to that one.
LOL at your implication that I am studying my FFR material on the flight deck. Plenty of discussions with my copilots about the project but I am not reading up there. haha
LOL at your implication that I am studying my FFR material on the flight deck. Plenty of discussions with my copilots about the project but I am not reading up there. haha
No disrespect intended... my brother-in-law is a retired 737 captain and he always described the level of activity once they reached cruising altitude. He read a lot of newspapers...
Gentlemen, thanks for all the input! Steve - you are correct - I have probably too many things going at once. That happens because I run into a question and then start something else rather than lose the time waiting for answers. It will all work out.
EdwardBs wiring spreadsheet helped me immensely: http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?18591-EdwardBs-Mk4-8674-20th-Anniversary-Build&p=243285&viewfull=1#post243285
Not sure how I missed this first time around... JDAV, thanks for the heads up; EdwardB, thanks for compiling it!
Straversi
10-24-2017, 09:37 AM
I re read your post and my response and realized that I should have just offered constructive help or kept my mouth shut. You are at the stage when a lot is coming together at once. Last thing you need is someone discouraging you from asking questions. I apologize.
-Steve
I re read your post and my response and realized that I should have just offered constructive help or kept my mouth shut. You are at the stage when a lot is coming together at once. Last thing you need is someone discouraging you from asking questions. I apologize.
-Steve
Steve, No apology necessary! I didn't see a discouraging word in your remarks. I appreciate the fact that people will eyeball my comments and offer their thoughts. I need all the input I can get. You are probably ahead of me, progress-wise. I'll take any and all advice.
With the input I got today, I think I have a direction on a few fronts:
1. Get the short air filter. Forget the cold air approach.
2. 4 lights on the dash: 2 turn signal, 1 high beam, 1 MIL
3. see how far the obdII wire will reach toward the center of the frame
4. keep the brass fittings.
5. see if i can find extensions for the uego fittings. (default approach: google search)
6. spend some quality time with the RF instructions and Paul's spreadsheet.
Ducky2009
10-24-2017, 03:08 PM
Once that was in place I started working on the cooling system. That, in and of itself, raised a whole host of questions. Consider that we’re dealing with the factory assembly manual and the Coyote assembly manual. And that I’m dealing with a heater. It will be OK. Suck it up, Al. Here are the issues: 1) the instructions are unclear on how to route the hoses to and from the heater with the Coyote. Dan at FFR was a huge help. He explained it, I drew out a schematic of what I understood, and he confirmed it.
I also installed a heater, but used a four-way valve on the coolant lines. This allows coolant to recirculate when shut off and heat when open. Has to make a small bracket to install and cut the control cable down a lot. I used loom clamps (Home Depot - electrical clamps) and the heater hoses fit under to engine cover. The box to move the heater more into the engine compartment is to allow me to have a glove box too.
NOTE: If I turn the blower on with the 4 way valve closed, it's outside air temp when moving..... warmer if sitting still (engine heat).
75880 75881 75882
Ducky2009
10-24-2017, 03:18 PM
How the heck am I supposed to connect to this thing and have it reach the J-pipe?
I have the same cables as you, but I'm using the headers, and they reach. The censors in the headers are approx 6" from the body.... not sure where the're located on the J pipe. I did remove the plastic L clamp on the DS.
I have the same cables as you, but I'm using the headers, and they reach. The censors in the headers are approx 6" from the body.... not sure where the're located on the J pipe. I did remove the plastic L clamp on the DS.
6" from the body sounds pretty close to the location for the sensor on the J-pipe. I'll try to measure it this evening and get a photo.
wareaglescott
10-24-2017, 04:02 PM
If you are using J-pipes they should reach. I used both stock pieces to my J-pipes with no problem.
Based on Ducky2009's question, I checked the O2 sensor cable lengths and location of the connectors off the block. Here's what we're dealing with.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=75899&d=1508889150
That's the driver side. The O2 connector is the one that looks to be closer to the oil filter. It's maybe 6 inches from the bung (I don't know what else to call it) on the J-pipe. Here's the Passenger side:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=75900&d=1508889164
While the DS connector is conveniently low on the block, the PS connector is inconveniently at the top of the cylinder. Fortunately, as Wareaglescott confirmed above, it will fit. The distance from this connector to the bung is about 19 inches. The cable on the UEGO is about 21. Should be good to go. Now I just have to figure out what the other connector in the DS photo is for... that's part of the engine harness, not the controls pack. We'll figure it out.
Ducky2009
10-24-2017, 07:49 PM
..... DS Connection... Now I just have to figure out what the other connector in the DS photo is for... that's part of the engine harness, not the controls pack. We'll figure it out.
This is the harness oil pressure plug (maybe not needed), but not the correct plug for the gauge sending unit. Edwardb suggested (in someones post) to use the harness wires all the way to the sensors, connect the gauge wires directly to the harness wires under the dash, instead of running the gauge wires (extra wires besides the harness) all the way to the sending units. Pro's and con's..... You don't have to run a wire all the way from the gauge (at the dash) to the sending unit vs. Need to splice the wires under the dash and hood. IMO, I don't want extra non-factory connections that could fail or corrode. It's really your preference.
Now I just have to figure out what the other connector in the DS photo is for... that's part of the engine harness, not the controls pack. We'll figure it out.
If I remember correctly, that plug isn't used. I wire tied it to the other wires to keep it out of the way. Can't remember what it was for that we don't have.
edwardb
10-24-2017, 09:56 PM
Now I just have to figure out what the other connector in the DS photo is for... that's part of the engine harness, not the controls pack. We'll figure it out.
This is the harness oil pressure plug (maybe not needed), but not the correct plug for the gauge sending unit...
If I remember correctly, that plug isn't used. I wire tied it to the other wires to keep it out of the way. Can't remember what it was for that we don't have.
In addition to the O2 sensor plug on the PS by the motor mount, there are two other plugs. One goes toward the front to the factory oil pressure sensor. It's used along with the added Speedhut sensor and cable for the oil pressure gauge on the dash. The other one -- and the one I suspect you're not sure about -- is for the oil level sensor on the side of the oil pan. Directly down from where the cables are attached to the engine. You would have unplugged that one from the stock oil pan when swapping for the aftermarket lower profile oil pan. Some discussion about whether this sensor is active in the revised crate motor ECU. Apparently it wasn't in the Gen 1 Coyote crates. I haven't seen a definitive answer on the Gen 2. Since the Moroso pan has the bung, I went ahead and moved the sensor to the Moroso pan and plugged in the connector. Even if not used, keeps it from dangling around or needing to be tied back.
Ducky2009
10-25-2017, 12:22 AM
FYI.... The 2017 Coyote engines (at least from Ford Racing) does not have low oil sensor in the oil pan and no bung in the pan.
edwardb
10-25-2017, 08:47 AM
FYI.... The 2017 Coyote engines (at least from Ford Racing) does not have low oil sensor in the oil pan and no bung in the pan.
Interesting. Clearly one of the differences from my 2015 Ford Racing crate Coyote. Thanks for pointing it out. Does that mean the connector lead that would go to the oil level sensor is also not in your engine harness? Can't imagine the bean counters would remove the sensor but leave the connector in the harness.
Not sure which year Al_C is using here. Hopefully these responses help him sort out the connector in question.
The engine is a 2015 Coyote. No clue what generation it is, but it was ordered in May of 2016 and arrived in June of 2016. Mike Forte put the Moroso oil pan on it and it has the sensor in the bung on the driver side. Thanks, guys for the info on that plug! That was one of the things I was going to research today - you answered it for me!
Now that we're all talking about oil level and oil level sensors, it strikes me that there is no mention of that in the controls pack instructions. There is no mention of any connection for an oil level gauge on the pigtail connection instructions, either. The only thing I can think of (and I'm certainly no expert!) is if it's active it provides data to the PCM which might communicate a low oil situation via the MIL??? Whatever. As Paul stated above, even if it isn't used, plugging it in keeps it out of the way.
Ducky2009
10-25-2017, 03:46 PM
Interesting. Clearly one of the differences from my 2015 Ford Racing crate Coyote. Thanks for pointing it out. Does that mean the connector lead that would go to the oil level sensor is also not in your engine harness? Can't imagine the bean counters would remove the sensor but leave the connector in the harness.
Not sure which year Al_C is using here. Hopefully these responses help him sort out the connector in question.
FYI... Just reviewed the wiring harness manual supplied with my 2017 Coyote engine. It still shows a Low Oil Sensor wire in the diagram, but no place to attach to the supplied stock pan. I never would have thought it still was included.
Looks like Edwardb have the approx same vintage engine as you. Your plug is probably the low oil sensor as suggested. Good catch Paul
broku518
10-26-2017, 02:24 PM
Hi Al,
Hope you can figure out that spaghetti mess. Let me know if you want us to come over. I have no idea what I am doing, but can follow directions and hold thing here or there. :)
Honestly, this was the main reason for getting carbureted engine, simplicity.
Cheers,
Martin
If I hadn't taken this path I would always wonder "what if..." . It's a learning experience that's worth every minute!
I like this time of year. There is less going on so I get to spend more time working on the car. You’ll recall from a recent update that I needed to move the expansion tank and power steering reservoir and I fabricated some new brackets. I more or less finished that little job this past weekend.
I had done the cutting and drilling on the brackets a few weeks ago, but hadn’t dealt with the frame. Initially, I drilled 3/16 pilot holes, in the hopes that rivets would suffice. My local “advisors” said, nope, drill and tap them. Easier said than done. But, now I have a new skill! If there had been no engine in the way, this would have been a piece of cake. If I had (hmmm – maybe I should get one of these!) a 90 degree drill, it would have been easier (or at least straighter). But, I got through it. Everything would have lined up perfectly if I had drilled everything in place, but the “in place” drilling was the pilot holes. The larger, tap-specific holes were done separately and ended up being less than perfectly perpendicular. Whatever. I just drilled the brackets one size bigger and everything fit fine. Here’s what it looks like from up top:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=76104&d=1509375333
I used aluminum that I cut out of the center of the Breeze radiator shroud, which is significantly heavier than the kit aluminum we know and love. Nevertheless, once I tightened the piece down, I noticed it bent to fit the contour of the X frame and tends to wiggle a bit. I think I want to reinforce that with some angle aluminum (is this the best label? It certainly isn’t angle iron…) so I can make this a bit more rigid. The reservoir will be in the way so you won’t see any of that, and the vibration should be eliminated. Once that’s done, I can fix the length of the hoses and put everything back together. Of course, fixing the length of the hoses is easier said than done, but I should be able to fix all that in a couple of hours. Maybe. Maybe it will take the whole freaking day.
On to wiring! Last time, I worked my way through the controls pack harness and pretty much have everything identified and labeled. My thinking is to identity and label the whole mess before I do any cutting or connecting. This past weekend’s project was to understand the RF harness and how to integrate it with the Coyote.
As a side note, it’s interesting to note (at least to me) how my perspective on these things has changed. It’s all about context. I had no idea earlier this year what I was doing and naively thought I could work through the entire wiring process in a weekend. Now that I have a bit more understanding I realize how ridiculous that initial estimate was! Still on the perspective piece, what I thought was a huge undertaking or achievement doesn’t seem like such a big deal anymore. I guess I’m finally beginning to understand. I like the fact that when this is done and on the road, I’ll know that I had my fingers into everything. But I digress…
The fuse box got installed with the RF harness months ago. It’s been dangling out of the pedal box looking rather hagged for longer than I like to think, and I’m finally dealing with it all. I laid out my FFR schematic, EdwardB’s wiring spreadsheet and the Ford instructions and set to work! My hope here is that by documenting all this I have a record of what I’m doing/have done and get feedback that maybe something could be done better. Additionally, and this is the big part – I HAVE QUESTIONS! Hopefully, you can answer them!
There are four wires taped together (not in convolute) labeled “coil efi crank”. They are:
• Efi crank – blue. Is this needed?
• Coil or EFI – orange. My original assessment was get rid of this. EdwardB spreadsheet says it gets used, “details elsewhere”. According to the schematic, this is the power feed to the ignition switch. Yes? No?
• Speed sensor green. This goes to the speedometer.
• Speed sensor gray. Also goes to speedometer. The other ends of these two wires are connected to the transmission.
Headlight switch bundle.
• Plug. The connector fits into the headlight switch. This is where it goes.
• Black wire. Ground.
Starter Solenoid bundle.
• Blue wire. Keep or lose? I’m thinking I don’t need this.
• Battery feed. Connect to battery? Is this my main power supply for the RF fuse box?
• Alternator feed. Is this another main power supply for the fuse box?
• Do I keep the above two leads or lose them?
• Ignition switch lead. I’m thinking no.
Radio/Heater/Wiper bundle.
• Red courtesy light. Connect to courtesy light.
• Grey courtesy light. Connect to courtesy light.
• Brown. Goes to heater.
• Red – radio memory. Tie off and keep for possible future use.
• Purple – wiper. Goes to wiper.
• Grey – radio power. Tie off and keep for possible future use.
Sending units / electric choke bundle.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=76099&d=1509375288
• I’m thinking I need to lose the connector and match up various sending units with these wires. Yes?
Alternator bundle.
• Brown – “to ignition switch”. Needed?
• There are three red wires. Two go to the starter; one to the alternator. Do I need any of these to go anywhere? If so, how do I tell the difference?
Inertia switch.
• Black – ground.
• Black to relay. That connects to the tan wire in the rear harness.
• Take the tan wire out of the fuse box and connect it to the green wire out of the coyote pigtail (C160A).
Ignition switch bundle. (this is going to be fun…)
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=76102&d=1509375310
Coyote pigtail:
• Red: HAAT
• Yellow: key on
• Blue: starter request
• Green: starter
RF:
• Red – headlight
• Red – battery
• Brown – accessory
• Brown – alternator – yes/no?
• Orange – ignition feed – yes/no?
• 2 blue – leave out? One is efi-crank – probably don’t need it; 1 is clutch safety switch which I’m not using.
• The FFR instructions say connect the pigtail light green to the orange coil wire and that nothing else gets used. This conflicts with the Ford controls pack instructions. Who gets their way???
Here is what I believe is the Hot Rod column bundle. Yes? I can lose this, right?
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=76101&d=1509375299
OK, two more items. Any idea what this thing is? Is this for Mustang donor builds? I can’t find any connector in the harness that it mates to.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=76103&d=1509375321
Finally, once I know what wires I can get rid of, I want to thin things out. I know that some of you undo the whole harness and remove the wires completely. That seems like a lot of effort, and I’m wondering if it’s worth it. Can I cut them / tie them off where they exit the various convolute bundles? This applies to the A/C wires and intercooler wires on the controls pack as well… thanks for your input.
edwardb
11-02-2017, 07:15 PM
Glad to hear you’re getting more comfortable with the wiring. No question the Coyote installation adds to the wiring task. But don’t let it intimidate you. Take it one step at a time. Rather than answering every single point, let me offer this explanation. (1) The Ron Francis harness is installed exactly as shown in the RF instructions for most everything. That includes all the lighting circuits, gauge circuits, heater, radio, ignition switch, etc. (2) The Coyote is installed as described in the Ford Performance and FF Coyote instructions. Important to understand is that the Coyote is basically a standalone system. There are only these interface points, and once this is understood, hopefully most of the answers are clear:
1. Battery +12V supply to Coyote PDB
2. +12V signal to Coyote pigtail light green when key is on to wake up the system and tell it to stay alive. Provided by the RF orange EFI/Coil wire.
3. +12V signal to Coyote pigtail light blue when key is in start to tell it to initiate the start sequence. Provided by the RF blue EFI Crank wire.
4. Coyote +12V fuel pump supply pigtail green grafted into RF harness. This allows the Coyote PCM and PDB to control and power the fuel pump, while utilizing the existing RF wiring to get the voltage back to the tank mounted fuel pump.
5. RF large alternator wire to the large post on the Coyote alternator. Provides battery charging from the alternator back through the RF harness and to the battery.
6. The 2015+ Coyote Controls Pack doesn’t have a tach connection. So it’s necessary to graft the RF harness/Speedhut tach wire into one of the Coyote coil on plug harnesses. Shown in my build thread.
That’s it. With those basic connections, and the two systems wired per their respective instructions, it will work. Several additional points:
1. I recommend using the cooling fan control only by the Coyote system. Hook the cooling fan wire from the Coyote harness to the radiator fan per the Ford instructions and don’t use the RF cooling fan wires or circuit for the fan.
2. I also recommend using the start function only by the Coyote system. So the Coyote start wire goes to the small post on the starter motor. The blue RF start wire is only used for the Coyote start sense wire previously mentioned. Note this also means the RF clutch safety wiring (part of the blue RF wire circuit) is not used. The Coyote harness has its own clutch safety switch.
3. The FF Coyote instructions show installation of the water temp and oil pressure sending units to the Coyote. Also interface points, but not mandatory to make the Coyote system work.
4. Finally, I did use the always on wire (HAAT) in the Coyote pigtail to power the GPS speedo keep-alive wire as well as the Speedhut clock. So technically also these are interface points.
Everything I’m describing here is in point-to-point detail in my spreadsheet you mentioned. I assume you see there are multiple tabs in the spreadsheet? Some information is in several places. So if something doesn’t appear complete, check the other tabs. I recommend you use it exactly. It works. Several other builds have followed it, and I'm happy (relieved?) to report they're also running and/or driving.
For some of your other points, it's not mandatory to remove wires you're not using. Also not mandatory to undo the harnesses any more than necessary to get stuff to reach and be somewhat neat. Do as much as you're comfortable with. I did some, but not as much as many. I did remove the Hot Rod leg simply for space reasons. The yellow wire in the Coyote pigtail is not needed. Tie it back as described in the spreadsheet. The plug with wires you pictured is a relay socket. Probably not needed for your build unless you're adding a relay somewhere. I think that's it and hopefully helps.
Thanks, Paul! Back at it again on Saturday and we'll see how it goes.
Once again, it’s more than 6 weeks since my last update. Why change now? It’s been busy around here.
Related, but not really, we traveled to the Gilmore Auto museum near Kalamazoo in early November. Wedged in between a couple of other cars is this original Cobra.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=78220&d=1514327716
It looks an awful lot like Gumball’s car… OK, back to reality.
When I ordered my kit, I elected to get a cut off switch.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=78221&d=1514327727
Master cut off, if you will. I was thinking theft-deterrent rather than racing, but I knew I’d need one if I was going to take the car on the track. (who am I kidding…) After I started going through all the Coyote documentation, I wrote the thing off, because I didn’t consider the obvious way of maintaining the HAAT lines for the engine. But, reading a number of threads, I came to the conclusion it would work and I really should install it. But where? I looked at a number of options, none of which were that great, and finally settled on the spot below the dash where many others have installed theirs. The problem was – the engine is already in! I’m not about to pull the engine again just to install the switch. Well, it’s in, and I can actually reach the connection points below the firewall. It would be easier without an engine in the way, but we’ll get past that.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=78223&d=1514327769
Next up is the conflict between the crossmembers on the frame and the mid-shift. Last time we discussed that topic here, I got way more input than I ever expected. To me, 2BKing had the best advice, so I went for it. It was a bit nerve-wracking to cut the frame, but I figured I had measured enough times that I should just go for it. I put a piece of plywood between the frame and the transmission and made the cut with the angle grinder.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=78222&d=1514327748
I used two different sized steel bars: one that is the same size as the tube, and one that fits nicely inside. Here it is before I trimmed and powder coated the backing piece:
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=78224&d=1514327786
And here it is completed.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=78225&d=1514327810
Here’s the only concern I have: you’ll notice that the right side of the mid-shift is pretty close to the frame piece that I cut. When you stand at the back of the car and look forward, the transmission seems to be offset. I’m thinking that maybe I loosen things up and shift it toward the driver’s side by about ¾ of an inch. Maybe I’m just being anal. Maybe you’ll have an opinion.
On to wiring. Again. The Coyote controls pack comes with a rather long cable that has two connections at each end. This thing is designed to drop into a Mustang, so they made it basically as long as a Mustang. I don’t need all this wire. But I need the ground wire, and I needed to see where the cables were joined inside the convolute. I’m sure some of you have experienced this quirk: the ENTIRE cable is wrapped by non-adhesive tape. By the time I got the whole thing unwrapped, I had a ball of tape about the size of a baseball.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=78226&d=1514327829
After Thanksgiving I made my usual conference trip to Las Vegas. I had the better part of the first day in town to myself, so I made another pilgrimage to the Shelby museum just south of the strip. The tour guide was excellent. He had worked for Shelby himself many years before and had a ton of stories. He was really interesting. They also had a deal going with Exotics Racing, who have a facility at the International Speedway. They had brought a GT350 to the museum and were promoting “laps” around the industrial park for a pretty reasonable fee. I bit. It was supposed to be three laps around the block, but I ended up driving for the better part of 25 minutes. It was a blast. Who knew you could go fast dodging semis? Yes, I am an idiot...
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=78227&d=1514327873
When I got back home I started working on the dashboard in earnest. I mounted right angle brackets on the back of the dash using countersunk rivets
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=78233&d=1514328478
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=78237&d=1514329144
Then I got busy with the veneer. I was a bit nervous about gluing the veneer on the dash and having everything lined up. I was also concerned about whether the countersunk rivets would show. So, I did a trial run on a piece of scrap and everything worked out well on that little experiment. Jazzman came through with some really good advice and I ran with it. I lined up the wood grain where I wanted it and applied the contact cement to both the veneer and the dash. I had planned to use dowels to keep the wood and the dash apart while lining things up. Jazzman suggested pencils. But, the guy at the wood shop where I bought my supplies suggested wax paper. That worked out really well. I hadn’t considered rolling the veneer over the bottom of the dash. I was going to cut it flush. Again, Jazzman came through and told me it wouldn’t be that hard. The best part was that it took no softening of the veneer whatsoever. It rolled much easier than I ever expected. Here are a few photos of it’s evolution, the last being with two coats of clear. I need to add one more coat before I cut out gauge and switch holes.
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=78228&d=1514327989
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=78229&d=1514328008
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=78230&d=1514328061
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=78231&d=1514328072
Hopefully, the weather will moderate and I’ll be able to get into the garage for a longer period of time. It’s currently 3 degrees here with wind chills in the -15 range. That tends to limit the amount of time I want to spend in the garage.
Ducky2009 made a bracket for my heater valve (his recommendation there, too).
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=78232&d=1514328086
I’ll powder coat this and get it installed, soon, hopefully. I need to finish the power wiring and then I can work on the dash wiring and the heater. I agree that it makes more sense to finish the heater hoses behind the dash so I can see what room I have to work with.
Maybe you noticed that I mentioned a lot of other forum members in this update. I’d be lost without you! Thanks everyone for your continuing support. There’s still lots to do. Still too many projects going on simultaneously, but what can I say!
wareaglescott
12-26-2017, 10:15 PM
Hey Al. Glad to see you back at it. Good work.
It is normal for the transmission to be biased towards the passenger side like that. It is supposed to be like that. Looks good to me.
Look forward to the next update Feb 16! Hahaha. Just messing with ya. Hope you and the family had a great holiday.
Jazzman
12-26-2017, 10:59 PM
http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=78229&d=1514328008
Your Veneer work looks to have come out great. I like the fine grained wood. Just a couple of thoughts. Looking at the photo above. It may just be an optical illusion, but it looks like the veneer might not be fully bonded to the panel above the middle of the three smaller gauge holes. Be sure it is all fully bonded before you proceed.
My dash was made from a blank, uncut, dash panel. I used hole saws to cut the holes in the locations that I wanted. I selected appropriate hole saw sizes to make my holes just big enough for the gauges, but not sloppy. It appears you are using a stock FFR dash panel. The cutout holes in the stock panel are slightly oversized to allow for the thickness of the traditional leather/vinyl dash material to be cut and folded through the holes before the gauges are installed. If you simply cut around the inside of the existing holes to remove the veneer material, you will end up with holes that are too big for your gauges. Here is my suggestion for how you deal with this problem. From the back side of the dash, drill very small marker holes in the exact center of each of the holes. Cut out wood veneer disks the same size as each of the holes. These wood filler disks will just about fill the thickness of the aluminum dash panel. Glue the filler disks into the holes from the back side. Cut a piece of .040 aluminum large enough to cover each gauge hole and over lap the space by at least 1" all around. The five small gauges and the holes for the ignition switch and light switches should all be done with one filler panel. Using the same contact cement that you used for the veneer, glue the filler panel on the back side of the dash covering all of the holes. You are basically gluing up one large lamination of wood and aluminum. Be sure to apply solid pressure all the way around the filler plate to make sure it is thoroughly bonded to to the aluminum dash panel. Once the cement is fully dry, use appropriately sized hole saws to drill through the marker holes from the front of the dash panel and through the aluminum filler panels. (See my build thread, post #488 (http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?18548-Jazzman%92s-8745-quot-Flip-Top-quot-Build/page13). Hole saws used are 2" and 3.875". I use DeWalt hole saws. I bought them at Home Depot.) This should create holes in the same place as the originals, but have holes that are the right diameter to just fit your actual gauges and switches. The threads on the gauges are plenty deep to allow for this additional thickness of wood and aluminum. I hope this helps.
Jeff Kleiner
12-27-2017, 05:16 AM
...Here’s the only concern I have: you’ll notice that the right side of the mid-shift is pretty close to the frame piece that I cut. When you stand at the back of the car and look forward, the transmission seems to be offset. I’m thinking that maybe I loosen things up and shift it toward the driver’s side by about ¾ of an inch. Maybe I’m just being anal. Maybe you’ll have an opinion.
Al,
The entire drivetrain is offset to the passenger side by about an inch by design. What you are seeing is normal. Veneer turned out well!
Jeff
Ducky2009
12-27-2017, 08:39 AM
Al, the dash looks great. Be sure to post pics after installing the gauges. Love the look
Your Veneer work looks to have come out great. I like the fine grained wood. Just a couple of thoughts. Looking at the photo above. It may just be an optical illusion, but it looks like the veneer might not be fully bonded to the panel above the middle of the three smaller gauge holes. Be sure it is all fully bonded before you proceed.
My dash was made from a blank, uncut, dash panel. I used hole saws to cut the holes in the locations that I wanted. I selected appropriate hole saw sizes to make my holes just big enough for the gauges, but not sloppy. It appears you are using a stock FFR dash panel. The cutout holes in the stock panel are slightly oversized to allow for the thickness of the traditional leather/vinyl dash material to be cut and folded through the holes before the gauges are installed. If you simply cut around the inside of the existing holes to remove the veneer material, you will end up with holes that are too big for your gauges. Here is my suggestion for how you deal with this problem. From the back side of the dash, drill very small marker holes in the exact center of each of the holes. Cut out wood veneer disks the same size as each of the holes. These wood filler disks will just about fill the thickness of the aluminum dash panel. Glue the filler disks into the holes from the back side. Cut a piece of .040 aluminum large enough to cover each gauge hole and over lap the space by at least 1" all around. The five small gauges and the holes for the ignition switch and light switches should all be done with one filler panel. Using the same contact cement that you used for the veneer, glue the filler panel on the back side of the dash covering all of the holes. You are basically gluing up one large lamination of wood and aluminum. Be sure to apply solid pressure all the way around the filler plate to make sure it is thoroughly bonded to to the aluminum dash panel. Once the cement is fully dry, use appropriately sized hole saws to drill through the marker holes from the front of the dash panel and through the aluminum filler panels. (See my build thread, post #488 (http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?18548-Jazzman%92s-8745-quot-Flip-Top-quot-Build/page13). Hole saws used are 2" and 3.875". I use DeWalt hole saws. I bought them at Home Depot.) This should create holes in the same place as the originals, but have holes that are the right diameter to just fit your actual gauges and switches. The threads on the gauges are plenty deep to allow for this additional thickness of wood and aluminum. I hope this helps.
Kevin, That was very astute of you to see the little bubble on the top of the dash. It isn't an illusion - it's a goof. I didn't notice that until after I had stained the piece. I've been debating whether I should try to fix it or just leave it alone. You won't see it, because the top will be under the lip of the body. But, if it will eventually pull away, then I guess I need to address it. The problem is how to fix it without creating a bigger problem. In your opinion - can I just squeeze a little contact cement into that opening and roll it out? I look forward to your thoughts there.
On to the gauge holes. I planned for the differential in size for the tach and speedo and have o-rings that take up the slack. I tried it out earlier and they worked pretty well. Based on your comments, I'll need to check the smaller holes, but I had the gauges in the raw aluminum and don't recall there being much slop in those. I don't think the stock holes are much over 2" if they are at all. (I'm visiting Martin's build this afternoon, so I'll check his out...) If I need to, I'll see if I can find some o-rings for those too (it's just easier), but failing that I'll go the laminate route.
Jazzman
12-27-2017, 03:18 PM
Kevin, That was very astute of you to see the little bubble on the top of the dash. It isn't an illusion - it's a goof. I didn't notice that until after I had stained the piece. I've been debating whether I should try to fix it or just leave it alone. You won't see it, because the top will be under the lip of the body. But, if it will eventually pull away, then I guess I need to address it. The problem is how to fix it without creating a bigger problem. In your opinion - can I just squeeze a little contact cement into that opening and roll it out? I look forward to your thoughts there.
On to the gauge holes. I planned for the differential in size for the tach and speedo and have o-rings that take up the slack. I tried it out earlier and they worked pretty well. Based on your comments, I'll need to check the smaller holes, but I had the gauges in the raw aluminum and don't recall there being much slop in those. I don't think the stock holes are much over 2" if they are at all. (I'm visiting Martin's build this afternoon, so I'll check his out...) If I need to, I'll see if I can find some o-rings for those too (it's just easier), but failing that I'll go the laminate route.
You are right, you likely will not see it. The only concern might be when you have to install/remove the dash, will it get caught on the body and crack away. Can't really tell, but it would be more safe if it solidly laminated to the dash panel. You might begin by just clamping that bubble between a couple of pressure pads to see if the contact cement that is there will just set up and hold it in place. If that doesn't work, a small paintbrush full of contact cement might do the trick.
Glad to hear you are on top of the hole size differential problem. I will look forward to seeing your "O" ring solution. Please post when you can show it, as I haven't seen O rings that size. Keep up the good work!
The Dash is complete: January 14. This took way longer than expected, but I am pleased with the result. If I decide to do this again – or if anyone else is thinking of doing a veneer on a dashboard – don’t get a pre-cut dash! Yes, that little detail – all the holes done for me, at the factory, in advance – resulted in more “fun” for yours truly. For all my kicking and screaming, I finally took the laminate path – twice!
Those of you who are still following along (I suspect that there are those who have thrown up their hands exclaiming ‘what is taking this guy so darn long!’) the issue was that the pre-cut holes are larger than the gauges themselves to accommodate the vinyl or leather that most people use. While that covering serves to cushion the gauge and ensure it’s nice and tight, it becomes somewhat of an issue with the veneer. More or less. Probably not, but Jazzman planted enough doubt in my mind that I bit the proverbial bullet. In the end, this route is the better one.
Jazzman recommended I fabricate a laminate of sorts (above) to fill in the extra space and enable gauge-sized holes. The only challenging part there was finding the exact center of each hole, which – again with an assist from Kevin – turned out to be no big deal. My math teacher daughter was aghast that I couldn’t recall something this basic – I should have just let her do it. Marking the center allowed me to drill a pilot hole from the back and then cut the correct sized hole from the front of the dash. Here are the intermediate steps:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=81282&d=1519088938
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=81283&d=1519088963
Considering that I had one shot to get these things right, I drilled a test hole with my “existing” 2 inch hole saw to ensure everything would go as planned. I was surprised how much wobble there was with the arbor (in this case, essentially a drill bit held in place by a set screw). That resulted in a new hole saw. It worked much, much better. This is the difference between the store brand and the name brand. That’s not always the case, but this time it was true. Anal? Perhaps, but I really didn’t want to screw up the work I had already done. It was worth the 20 bucks or so it cost.
The next challenge was the headlight switch. The pre-cut hole is ½. The locking cap for the switch has threads that are 7/16.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=78531&d=1514911933
In and of itself, that’s not a big deal, but there’s a locking tab on the switch which is to hold it in place when you rotate the knob. While the hole really should be 7/16 with a notch at the top, this thing will fit inside the ½ inch hole, but it will be off a bit vertically. If vinyl were in the picture, it would probably hold everything in place where it should. I decided that while I’m being anal about it, why not just move the switch? To that end, I posted another thread here: https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?27062-Got-a-tape-measure-handy
The idea was to move the headlight switch to the left of the speedometer. As it turns out, the overwhelming opinion was “this is not a good idea”.
OK, no problem. I got the whole laminate thing down now, so let’s do it for the switches, too. I made a paper template to accommodate the headlight switch (with tab), hazard switch, wiper switch, and heater switch. The two switches in the middle are standard ½ inch diameter, so they fit nicely with the pre-cut holes. The outside switches – headlight and heater – are smaller, but are centered on the same line as the center switches. I drew out the spacing for each of these – the heater switch is actually a “D” – and drilled them out. The paper template worked really well and everything came out just about perfect.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=81284&d=1519089054
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=79363&d=1516120199
The center switches actually hold the backing piece in place, so there was really no need to cement anything. This turned out to be far easier than trying to mess around with the dash itself and allowed me the luxury of being able to re-do it had I messed up on the first one. The backing piece has the 7/16 hole with a notch for the headlight in the right spot vertically, as well as a “D” hole for the heater switch that also fits inside the half inch hole perfectly.
Lastly, I found that using the Dremel with a cutting bit and sanding drum worked far better than a razor knife in cutting the holes out through the veneer itself. Here’s how it came out.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=79361&d=1516119934
You can see the bezel for the steering shaft in the photo. When all is said and done, it’s held in place by a few screws. In my mind, there isn’t that much material in the dash for those things to screw in to, so I’m thinking about making some sort of backing piece for it. That would also provide a little more strength to the area around the shaft, as the stock dash has the long oval opening there. I haven’t decided if I’ll do that in wood or metal yet.
January 21. The snow is melting, it’s actually warm enough to work in the garage. Time to wrap up the power wiring. Or, at least try.
I got these little details complete:
1. Ran the battery cable from the battery in the trunk box through convolute through the trans tunnel to the cut off. Included the ground wire from the C500 connection in that bundle. The Coyote controls pack instructions insist on connecting that ground wire to the battery, which seems a bit extreme to me, but I’ve got the wire, I’ve got the room to run it, so what harm is there in actually following directions for once?
2. Made the connections from the cut off to the PDDB and the 250A fuse.
3. Made the connection from the cut off to the starter and connected the Coyote starter cable. Just need to anchor the cables to the frame. Still need to ground the engine to the frame, too. Between the controls pack cable, the kit battery cable, and the RF wiring, there were enough extra pieces of appropriate gauge wire that I could make everything I needed with just a little soldering and crimping.
Little by little, I’m making progress. One of these days it will warm up and I’ll actually be able to function in the garage!
January 28. Not much happened this weekend. Yesterday, the 27th was the 23rd annual K of C Pasta Dinner and Auction that I chair annually. We did OK this year. Not great, but OK. It’s a lot of work, but it’s important. We raise funds for people on the margins – those who have some serious medical issues but fall thru the cracks with insurance. Believe it or not, there’s a lot of people like that. We used to do it in November, but for the past 2 years had to do it in January (venue availability). I want to move it back to the fall. I think we’ll get our numbers (attendance and revenue) up by moving the date. But I digress… The issue build-wise now are little things like wiring connectors and crimpers that don’t work that great.
February 3, 4. I finally figured out why I can’t get my 10 gauge wire into a 10 gauge connector: it’s really 8 gauge. Boy, don’t I feel better! Of course, it took 2 of us to figure that one out. Whatever. This little issue is standing between me and having my power wiring complete. I need a connector on the alternator wire, the starter solenoid wire (it’s the same one!) and the cutoff to junction block. FFR told me I’d be OK with 10 gauge for the main feed from the cutoff, but I’m happier with the 8 ga. I found the right connectors and ordered them.
In the meantime, you may have noticed my thread here (https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?27252-Clutch-cable-concern) about my clutch cable. The backstory here is two-fold. I sought opinions at the very outset about cable vs. hydraulic clutch and the feedback was pretty much split. Since there was no real “winner” I went with the cable because we took that approach in build school. Then I saw Bruuce’s graduation thread and it got me thinking. Bottom line: until something drastic occurs, I’m keeping my cable. The manual suggests mounting the bracket that comes mounted on the cable to the ¾ inch lower frame rail. That might be OK, but it will be outside the steering shaft and that will pull it closer to the header. Instead, I’m securing the cable to the block using one of the lift bracket holes. Here’s a photo of my home made bracket:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=81289&d=1519090140
I ran this idea by a couple of you and so far, I have the thumbs up. It should keep the cable safely away from the header, and it also provides a place to secure the alternator wire that goes back to the RF harness, keeping it, too, away from the heat. I call this my “ghetto bracket.”
Yes, there is a story that goes with that name. I sell Identity and Access Management software, and a couple of our engineers came up with a creative way to store passwords for multi-factor authentication. An example of multi-factor is when you get a text message with a code to enter at the web site you’re trying to log in to. Well, we presented this method of storing passwords and solving the multi-factor problem for older applications and these guys at the customer site started calling it “ghetto MFA” because it wasn’t a “purist approach”. Maybe it wasn’t purist, but it got the job done easier and less expensively than the approach the customers wanted to take. Anyway, my bracket may not be “purist”, but it gets the job done. Ghetto bracket it is.
Feb 11,12. Power wiring is complete. Finally. It’s amazing how easy things are when you have the right parts. I got the 8 ga. Connectors and they fit perfectly. What I struggled with for what seemed like hours last week took no time. I also swapped out the old crimper. As it turns out, the crimper I had was made for weatherpack connectors. That’s all well and good except for the fact that I’m not using weatherpack connectors. These are molex-style heat shrink connectors. The heat shrink jaws in the new crimper make this much, much easier. Lesson learned.
Feb 17,18. More problems solved. I’m probably making things more complicated than I need to, but I’m coming to the place where I’m fine with this project being done when it gets done. Jeff Kleiner helped a lot in that regard, reminding me that this is a hobby and that I’ll probably miss the build when it’s done.
He’s right.
So, new approach – Let’s see how long that attitude lasts!
Here’s the clutch cable/ghetto bracket/alternator cable all wrapped up:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=81290&d=1519090156
I suppose I could have chopped off a bit more on the clutch cable part itself, but I wanted to leave a little wiggle room if I needed it. It’s on now, and you’ll really have to stick your head in the engine bay to see it. I like the way everything is away from the header, but I’m a bit concerned about the engine harness plug that goes into the rear of the alternator. I think I saw something on Wareaglescott’s thread about that, but I have to go check that again. Here’s another photo:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=81291&d=1519090175
I need to get a nut for the alternator wire, too. Either I never got a nut on that post or I lost it. I tried another nut I had, but I think that post is fine thread and I didn’t want to force the nut I had. Anybody know what the thread count is on that post?
I got the battery ground done, too. I put that on the inside of the large square tube near the battery box. I think this is a decent location. Here’s a photo:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=81294&d=1519090283
I also got back to dealing with my power steering system. It seems like a long time ago (it was!) that I had put everything in, but then I had to move the reservoir because it would be in the way of the hood hinge. I fabricated a bracket that I bolted to the X frame, but I’ve been postponing dealing with that. A good part of that postponement was because I was unsure how I was going to route and connect everything and it was easier to put it off. Time to face the music.
The main issue here was that when I routed the large hose (feeding the pump from the reservoir) it was too close to the lower control arm. I could shorten the hose as one way to solve that, but Mark Reynolds didn’t think that was a great idea. So in order to keep the hose out of the LCA’s way, and not interfere with anything else, I made yet another ghetto bracket. The original concept was to have that bracket mounted vertically to the ¾ inch tube, but then I had contention with the radiator overflow tank. However, by having the bracket extend horizontally, it holds the hose where I want it and keeps it away from the overflow tank, too. Here’s what it looks like, all nicely powder coated.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=81297&d=1519090408
Here’s what it will basically look like when it’s installed:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=81296&d=1519090398
The last thing I did over this weekend was get going on the trunk drop box. Here you can see the in-process stage of the box itself
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=81295&d=1519090301
Next up is dropping the gas tank so I can get the box and trunk floor in place. I’ve been holding off on those until I had all of the rear harness wiring buttoned up. It’s much easier to access things from above than below!
I hope to get the trunk done as well as finish the PS plumbing next weekend. And maybe I’ll find the right nut for the alternator. I had these grand plans about working on gauge wiring this weekend. Then I took a good look at the manual. Oops. The gauges in the manual are different than what I have. It looks like the instructions are centered around the Autometer gauges, and I have the vintage gauges. Time for more study before I start cutting anything.
Jazzman
02-20-2018, 12:52 AM
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=79361&d=1516119934
Looks Great, Al!! Nice wood choice. Cherry? Your hard work paid off. Congratulations!!
edwardb
02-20-2018, 07:05 AM
Nice progress. Like the dash a lot. Cherry is one of my favorite woods. Agree with Jazzman, that's what it looks like. For the alternator nut, one didn't come with mine either. I checked my build records. All I wrote was "metric nut for alternator wire" from my local Ace hardware store. Not too much help, except that it's definitely metric and something easily available.
Thanks for the compliments on the dash! Yes, it is cherry. Now I just need to wire up the back side so I can install it!
broku518
02-20-2018, 02:16 PM
Hi Al, the dash is looking awesome. I like the steering shaft cover. Where can I get something like this?
Thanks,
Martin
Martin, The steering shaft cover is part of the Russ Thompson turn signal. Russ is one of our vendors listed here on the site: http://www.norcal-cobras.com/store/russ_garage/russ_garage.htm
broku518
02-20-2018, 02:57 PM
Martin, The steering shaft cover is part of the Russ Thompson turn signal. Russ is one of our vendors listed here on the site: http://www.norcal-cobras.com/store/russ_garage/russ_garage.htm
oh, so this is part of the turn signal assembly? I am not getting one, was just looking for some nice cover/clean look.
OK, time for an update. As updates go, this one is not very exciting. In our last episode, we had made some progress on a number of fronts, and the prospect of a first start was on the horizon. The summary version of this update is that confidence levels are increasing, tasks are getting checked off, and the prospect of a first start is very real – before my kit’s third anniversary! (That’s in July, for those of you keeping track) On the other side of the ledger, time continues to get eaten up by all sorts of things like business travel, fun travel (see photos below), and family events. As I transition into retirement (which I discussed with my management) I expect to have more time to spend on the build. Maybe. We’ll see. So far, that hasn’t worked out so well. I’m still hitting the office every day. Back to the build.
One of these days, (soon) I will start adding fluids. The brakes need to be bled, as does the Power Steering. I can do that now, because the power steering system is complete. At least until we discover some leak caused by the questionable threads on the bottom of the aluminum reservoir. Hopefully that is a non-issue, but we’ll reserve judgement.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=85716&d=1526316701
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=85717&d=1526316728
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=85718&d=1526316767
I need to get a new oil filter because the original got pretty beat up when we dropped the engine into the frame (the first time, before I removed the stock oil cooler…) I also need to get the oil into the transmission. Before I mount the cockpit aluminum. But, then again, I need to finish the e-brake routing before I do the aluminum. Everything is set up to employ the stock set up. Clearly, there is doubt in my mind, because I haven’t made the connection yet. Still debating if I should leave it as is with the stock, under the frame approach, or go the pulley/lokar route. I’m thinking pulley approach. The cables don’t reach, and I have no idea where the extension pieces are that were supposed to be with the brakes. (I have the Wilwoods) Without the extensions, the cables don’t reach. I’ll poke around in the “extra parts” box and see if I can track down the extensions, but I’ll probably spring for the lokar part and pulley anyway.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=85731&d=1526317206
You can see that with the extension, all would be good.
I had started working on the RT trunk drop box last time, and was able to finish it before “the trip”. There were two things I needed to do before I wrapped up the trunk. First, I needed to run a wire through the rear harness for a backup light. It sounds simple (and probably should be), but it was a pain in the neck. I would love to get my hands on some kind of tool that spreads the convolute apart and lays a wire in it. I couldn’t find anything like that – maybe I should try to fabricate something. In any event, it’s too late now. I ran a wire back through the tubing, got that set, and then attached the rear harness to the frame. Then I could focus on installing the drop box and trunk itself.
It was all pretty straightforward until I got the sequence wrong. I don’t think it’s a big deal now, but I was annoyed at myself for a while when it happened. Everything fit quite well, so I was ready to silicone and rivet when I realized that I needed to rivet the lower trunk floor onto the frame. At the rear. As much as I thought I had everything in the proper place at the outset, the action of riveting the floor to the rear frame members served to push the floor forward about 1/8th inch. Maybe not even that much, but it was enough to throw the drop box out of alignment with the frame and everything else. Some pushing and filing and we got things pretty much where they should be, but it wasn’t perfect as it was before. Nevertheless, this is all going to be covered by carpet so unless you had read this missive you wouldn’t even know that was an issue. Here’ a look at the before and after
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=85719&d=1526316817
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=85729&d=1526317172
Having the floor in place allowed me to get the rest of the rear end aluminum in place. One good thing about doing aluminum: it’s a visible sign of progress!
I got a roll of heat tape that Wareaglescott recommended and used it on the alternator wire. There isn’t a lot of clearance here between the alternator and the shorty headers, but I think this will do the trick. From there, I ran the oil pressure and water temp sender cables and bundled them together. I taped up the water temp sender, too.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=85720&d=1526316861
April was a busy month. It started with a couple of days of business travel and ended with a week of business travel. In the middle was two weeks in SoCal and Hawaii. It was wonderful. A bit of a digression from the roadster, but here are a few photos:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=85721&d=1526316905
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=85722&d=1526316954
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=85723&d=1526316972
Look! It’s a Mk IV Roadster! No, actually, it’s a lava flow. Everybody was watching the lava pool at the top of Kilauea – it had just started erupting 90 minutes before we arrived. In my twisted mind, it was more fun to photograph all the tourists looking at the lava pool. I did manage to get a video of the lava, but I’ll spare you all here. Last one:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=85724&d=1526316993
You didn’t want to miss the green on this hole. Thankfully, I didn’t. OK, back to work.
The gauges are coming along nicely. Everything is pretty much identified as to where it goes, all the sending units are connected to the engine and wires are bundled (mostly) neatly in the engine bay. Here, I haven’t really done justice to the whole dash wiring effort. I’ll cover that in more detail in the next update when I outline in detail where everything went.
I followed EdwardB’s writeup (almost to the letter) for the tach connection and that seemed to work out pretty well. It was a little nerve-wracking to strip the spark plug wire, but it looks like everything came out pretty well.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=85727&d=1526317130
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=85728&d=1526317151
Next are the heater vents. I covered that topic in this thread here:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?28322-Now-that-it%92s-getting-warm-let%92s-talk-about-heaters!
I got some ideas there, and here’s what I ended up with on the DS.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=85734&d=1526317281
Getting the air hoses in place actually helps, prior to the wires. I test fit the dash in place and it seems that there’s room for everything. In fact, there’s more room than I expected.
Speaking of the dash, I did a trial fit of the dash with the RT turn signal “tube”. Thankfully, it fits. (it did before, but you never know…) I have the Mike Everson bezel that goes on the dash around that tube, and since my dash has the veneer, there isn’t a lot of material to screw that bezel to. I decided to fabricate a backing plate, and then bolt the bezel to it. That should also provide a bit more support for the whole thing around the steering column. I made the backing piece out of 1/8 inch steel. Nothing fancy, but it fits well and will do the job. I’m still cutting these pieces with the angle grinder and Dremel tool. I missed out on the band saw I wanted to buy, but maybe one will show up for sale (at a reasonable price) again soon.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=85730&d=1526317187
While we’re looking at powder coated items, I need to do a plug for Eastwood. This was an example of what I consider really good customer service. You’ll notice that the wonderfully fabricated backing piece is not very glossy in appearance. It should be. The powder I used is “glossy black”. So I shot a note to Eastwood with the photo because I wanted to find out what I was doing wrong. The customer service guy (Sean) determined from my photos that it’s not me – it’s the powder. He told me that if I got him the original order number, he’d replace the powder. Kudos to Eastwood. I didn’t expect that, and am pretty happy with them!
I got the RT steering tube bolted down in place. As noted above, I had to ensure that the dash was going to line up where it should. Just to be sure, I tried it twice before I locked down the tube in place and started drilling. While I was at it, I drilled the bottom of the frame hoop where I’ll mount the dash. It’s long enough ago that anybody reading this is not going to remember that I flush mounted right angle pieces onto the dash so I can connect them from below with no visible bolt heads on the dash face. Truth be told, this has turned out to be a bigger pain than it is probably worth, but we’ll see how it turns out once the body is on. So far so good!
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=85732&d=1526317221
Next up:
1. Finish dash wiring – this weekend.
2. Cooling system
3. Fuel connections between regulator and fuel rail
4. Fluids
5. Battery
6. Start.
Should have more time in the next few weeks, so I’m hoping for some major progress soon! (didn’t I say that last time?)
Yes, sports fans, it’s finally time to get this thing updated! It’s only been what – 4 months? Lots has taken place in that time, and you may (if you were so motivated) read about some of it in various other threads. Nevertheless, let’s get started!
When we left off last time, I had gotten the RT steering wheel tube in place so I was ready to get going on putting the dash in. Just needed to ensure I had all the wires where they needed to be There were a few fits and starts on that, because I kept forgetting things – like putting the bezel backing piece on before I put the dash over the steering column! The bezel backing piece is something I decided to make to reinforce the dash and the bright metal bezel steering column collar. The original piece came with sheet metal/wood type screws that would probably be fine in a vinyl or leather dash application. With the veneer, it didn’t seem like there was enough material for them to hold on to. So, I fabricated a giant washer and then sandwiched the dash between the washer and the bezel. Nice and solid. You just have to remember to put it all together before the dash goes on…
I decided to use the momentary switch on the RT stalk for my dimmer switch. Now that I understand how the parts interact (i.e. relay), it makes sense and wasn’t all that difficult. It, like everything else, just took forever.
I also needed to get the hazard light switch integrated with the RF wiring. The discovery there was that the switch has a different size connection. It’s smaller than the typical male connector. Fortunately, the old guys at the auto parts store had them in stock.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=86227&d=1527192527
Once I got that done, things fell in to place. Except for the wiper switch. This is one of the challenges of opting for goodies like windshield wipers and a heater. We’ll get to the heater in a minute. You may recall that I did another sandwich job on the dash to accommodate the “D” shaped heater control. While I was doing that, I just plugged in a single pole switch as a place holder to keep everything in place. Now it was time to put in the wiper switch and button things down. Guess what: the wiper switch is a different diameter! While most of the switches are ½”, this thing was bigger. Like 5/8”. The only difficulty there was I wanted to keep everything centered on a line. Not that difficult, but it took forever (again).
On Father’s Day I finally got the dash in place, more or less permanently. Less, as it turns out, because now I want to re-do my wiring. Keep reading – we’ll get to that later.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=87481&d=1529339049
It was now time to tackle the cooling system. I went back and forth on this more times than I can remember, but I finally bit the bullet and went the Ford route.
The Ford route meant pulling out what I had done with the FFR expansion tank and replacing it with a bigger one that would accommodate all of the hoses the coyote expects. Edwardb had a really good writeup on this approach, and he had a complete parts list. I went with most of it. I got to do more fun fabricating (I really do enjoy this part of the build) making brackets that would be strong enough to hold the tank in place and in the correct position. Like Paul, I made mine out of 1/8” steel, but they’re shaped differently as I have the Breeze radiator hinge installed. Here are a few shots of the tank and its surroundings:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=86480&d=1527726536
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=92863&d=1536424421
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=86482&d=1527726561
Thankfully, several of you reminded me that I needed to ensure there was room for the hood hinge and the air intake elbow. There isn’t much as you can see, but it’s clear. Ducky2009 told me about a support bracket he made for the air intake, and I think that’s a good idea for this build, too. It will definitely keep the elbow away from the tank and reduce the vibration that could promote wear on the reducer (rubber? Plastic?) that connects the elbow to the throttle body. That can wait until I get it started.
The coyote has this interesting little need for continuous coolant flow through the heads. That isn’t a big deal, unless you decide to put in a heater. Fortunately, I’m not the first one to have to address this. There are a number of options, some more expensive than others, and Ducky2009 found a great solution. He sent me a bracket to use along with the part number for the valve. This thing allows me to route coolant through the heater or bypass it.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=87475&d=1529338844
I had to get this all in place before the dash was installed because the cable from the heater switch had to be routed through the firewall to the valve. It took a little tweaking, but it works pretty well.
With that done, I could hook up heater hoses and plumb the rest of the cooling system. This was all pretty straightforward, with the exception of the lower radiator hose. In my never ending quest to employ the parts that came with the kit, I wanted to use the flexible stainless tubing for that. I thought that the 90 degree bend required at the engine was a bit extreme for the stainless, so I bought a rubber 90 degree piece for that end of it. It was reasonably easy to attach the stainless to the radiator, but I couldn’t find an adapter to connect the stainless and the 90 degree piece. OK, scrap that idea. I found a flexible rubber hose (Gates) that fits both ends and makes the whole trip as a single piece. Currently that’s installed, but that may only be a temporary solution. The hose is pretty darn close to the frame and may wear pretty quickly. Had I been smart, I would have filled the system with water. Bit no! I had to go with coolant. So now I’m going to need to recover coolant when I get around to re-doing the plumbing, rather than just let it drain out on the floor. Here are some photos of the plumbing:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=92864&d=1536424593
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=92865&d=1536424615
Two items remained before I could do a first start: fuel lines and connecting the battery. I wanted to wait until the last minute to connect the battery just on general principle – it’s easier to work on everything knowing that you aren’t going to get zapped or short anything out. That almost worked out.
I got the fuel line connected from the regulator to the fuel rail and then started dealing with the CMCV plumbing.
There are a few differences between the generations of the coyote as far as vacuum is concerned. I have the 2015, and it has two lines: one on the drivers side, and one on the passenger side of the intake manifold. The PS side connects to the engine; the DS connects to the intake elbow. I still need to drill holes in the elbow, but I constructed a hose that fits the Ford connection (intended to go on a Mustang air intake) and the block.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=87760&d=1530030784
With these things complete, it was time for a first start. Maybe. The plan was to do the first start on the engine’s delivery anniversary – June 30. I had a bunch of friends over, including Gumball and Broku518. I told everybody it was either going to be a celebration – or a disaster of monumental proportions. It was neither – just a dud. You can read about some of the issues here:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?28921-no-start-condition-on-coyote
With that bump in the road, it was time to get everything fixed. Dan, my GTO friend and electrical expert, got involved. We started working through the electrical system, looking for faults.
Elapsed, it took about a week. In man-hours, it was probably three hours. Not too bad. It was the coyote pigtail “starter request” wire that was connected to the RF orange “efi/crank” wire that caused the problem.
Once that was identified, we had a running fuel pump and an engine that would turn over. Unfortunately, as soon as the fuel pump started, leaks appeared. Let’s count each one:
1. Quick disconnect at the tank let go, spewing gas all over.
2. Connection from fuel filter output to hard line.
3. Union of hardlines.
4. Hard line to braided line in the engine bay
5. AN connection into fuel pressure regulator.
6. AN connection out of fuel pressure regulator.
7. Hard line union on the return.
Yikes! That’s just about every connection that could leak. Thankfully, I haven’t needed to employ the fire extinguisher. Dan and I talked about replacing the fuel lines with braided line from the filter all the way to the pressure regulator. While I’m not a big fan of rework, I like the idea. More on that later.
The fuel pressure regulator was the toughest nut to crack. At least time-wise. Wondering why there were so many leaks on the regulator, I got in touch with tech support at Aeromotive. My new friend Brett asked for photos so he could see what I was dealing with. By now, I was getting adept at installing/removing the connections AND the regulator itself, so this was no problem. First comment he made: “those aren’t Aeromotive fittings”. It’s been two years since the engine arrived. In the box was the fuel pressure regulator and the accompanying fittings. I don’t know the exact source of those items, but the fittings I got were aftermarket, apparently. In this case, it seems like it really does make a difference. First, I changed out the return fitting on the bottom of the regulator. Didn’t solve the problem. Next, I needed to isolate where the issue was. I took some paper towels, a couple of twist ties, and wrapped each connection so I could see which got wet when I powered up the pump. The return connection (aeromotive part) was dry. The other two were wet.
Elapsed time to fix: 3 weeks. Man-hours: about 3. 4 if you count on-line research. The biggest issue here was shipping charges and time to delivery! Whatever.
Finally, I got all the pieces together on July 28. I decided that I was going to start it whether I had leaks or not! While I do have some drips, at least they’re under the PS floor rather than in the engine bay. And here’s the result (also in its own thread):
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?29170-Al-s-Coyote-First-Start
Where to from here?
1. I need to get the brakes done. Go back over all the connections and make certain they are secure. Then load up the system and bleed the brakes.
2. Finish installing the lokar parking brake clevis. (The pulley is already in)
3. Adjust the Power Steering pump pulley. It needs to come forward about 1/32nd of an inch. It’s offset just enough to have the belt work its way off.
4. Re-do the fuel system. I’m going to go 3/8 braided line on feed and return. No more hard lines. I want one connection at the filter and one at the regulator. One piece of braided line in between. I hate to think about how much time and aggravation I went through dealing with 5/16 feed and ¼ return lines initially. It was frustrating, to say the least, finding the fittings for that, but at the time I wanted to use the parts that came with the kit. I’m past that now. I’ve gone so far off the reservation I’ve lost track.
5. Change out the problem wires in the dash. Maybe it’s too drastic to re-do everything, but I need to ensure the key wires are solid.
6. Drill the air intake elbow for the CMCV connection and PCV connection. I’m not looking forward to this one. I got the JLT kit, and they’re telling me one of the holes is 7/8”. I need to talk through this with a few folks (including Ducky2009 because I believe he already did it) before I start drilling.
7. Fabricate a bracket to support the air filter. It looks like it would vibrate considerably given the flex in the reducing collar. David (Ducky2009) and I already talked through this one.
All of the above in this post was written but never got posted. It’s been a busy summer and we haven’t been home much. But now I should be geographically stable for a couple of months so I should have some time to make progress. We’re now at early September. I have managed to squeeze a few minutes here and there, but mostly, I’ve been acquiring parts needed to deal with the above list! I’ve run the car a few times, but I really haven’t gotten it up to temperature yet. Nor have I set the tach yet. The needle moves, so I know the connection works, but it needs to be calibrated.
Last weekend, I pulled the fuel supply plumbing out.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=92396&d=1535832437
I put plastic bags on the ends so I wouldn’t leak gas all over the place. For the most part, that worked. It was painful to see these things come out after the challenges I had getting it all in place. I can’t help but think about the time and frustration in getting all of the fittings in place. Lesson learned: 3/8 inch is way easier than any other approach. Period. I have the new braided line ready to install – hopefully in the next week or two. One little problem I ran into was the quick disconnect fitting (to AN-6) for the fuel return at the tank. I measures ¼ inch, but a quarter inch fitting won’t go on. I have a 5/16 fitting that just arrived. We’ll see if that fits better (and hopefully isn’t so big it leaks!).
I started working on the brakes, too. So far, I only found one leak – at the junction of the hard line to the flexible front wheel hose on the passenger side. I should be able to finish this task by next weekend and get serious about finishing the new fuel system. I also got a couple of weatherpack connectors waiting to be installed on the ignition wiring. Hopefully that will solve the wiring issues.
My goal is to get these things addressed an post another update before the middle of October. Who knows, maybe I’ll actually meet that schedule!
Well, we didn’t. Here it is, the beginning of December, 2019. What a bum! I haven’t updated this log for nearly 15 months!
So, let’s review: in our last episode, our hero didn’t know what he didn’t know. Now, 15 months later, while still not completely cobra-competent, we have a pretty good idea of what we don’t know.
All of the following clearly is in the past, but I want to document it for the sake of completeness. If you’ve stuck with this log until now, you either have the patience of a saint or you have too much time on your hands. Maybe both. As you have seen, or will see, there are some huge time gaps between various activities. Why? Lots of reasons. But so what? It just took a little longer! I don’t work that quickly. I think I know what I’m doing, and then try to do it. Then I realize I have no clue, so I have to figure it out before I screw something up. I hate to think about how many items I have completed, scrapped and redone. I have probably completed two builds on one frame, given how many things I’ve re-done! So here’s the executive summary:
1. Made slow progress until I retired in the spring of 2019.
2. At Jeff Kleiner’s recommendation, I completed the car to the point of being able to register it and drive it prior to bringing it to him.
3. I ran into some interesting problems along the way that seemed insurmountable at the time, but don’t seem like such a big deal now.
4. I have come to grips with my own level of mechanical competence and confidence. I thought I knew what I was doing, but admit that I’ve had my head handed to me more than once! I have learned a lot over the past 4 and a half years and finally, now, at the end of 2019, am beginning to feel more confident. We’ll see how that works out…
5. I am now onto “interior 2.0”. Yes, the concept for this car has changed significantly. For the better, I believe.
Does that pique your interest to read on? Let’s get caught up.
September, 2018. The first order of business was making the connections to the elbow and installing a support bracket for the air filter. I know this because those photos are time-stamped earlier than the fuel lines! We had the engine connections before, but we hadn’t completed the connections on the air intake.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=118190&d=1575058857
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=118193&d=1575058894
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=118189&d=1575058849
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=118192&d=1575058879
Remember the fuel lines? That was one of the “did, scrapped, re-did” items. I should have just taken this approach from the outset, but I was bound and determined to use the parts that came with the kit. I’m sure there are plenty of people who had success with 5/16 feed and ¼ inch return on a Coyote, but, sadly, I was not one of them. Here are some photos of the new approach:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=118194&d=1575058905
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=118195&d=1575058964
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=118196&d=1575058975
I’m very happy with these lines, especially considering I installed them after the aluminum was in place. I would have been much easier to do this initially… These lines are going to be a cause of concern later on!
The power steering setup has been a challenge from the outset. It’s easy enough – reservoir, pump, and rack, with a total of three hoses and six connections. What could possibly go wrong? You may recall from way back in the build (don’t forget – this odyssey has been 4 years in the making!) I mounted the reservoir in a spot that would have prevented the hood from closing, I mangled assembly of the reservoir to pump line, and I messed up the threads on the bottom of the reservoir. Leaks have been a persistent issue, to say the least. So, I pulled the reservoir out so I could fix it once and for all. Ha! Notice the threads:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=118197&d=1575058997
The idea here was to see if the threads were salvageable or if I needed to get a whole new reservoir. We’ll come back to this later.
October, 2018: A troubling development here was the brake leak at the right front wheel. I talked about that in a thread here: https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?29943-PS-brake-line-leak-stands-between-me-and-go-karting
Here’s the offending connection:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=118198&d=1575059016
And offending connector:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=118199&d=1575059036
The end result was to completely replace the DS to PS front brake line along with a new connector at the right front wheel. Keep in mind that this brake line is attached to the X frame and was originally installed before anything else (steering rack, etc.) was in place. It was a little more crowded in this area now… But, it’s in. Boy, that was fun! Here’s the new connection. Look! No loop!
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=118200&d=1575059050
October 14 was a good day. It was 8650’s maiden voyage! Here’s a link to the go-kart thread complete with video: https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?30056-Maiden-Voyage-first-go-kart-run-of-8650
I also fixed another initial problem. I had used spade connectors for the coyote pigtail starter request wires and the RF wires, and that was problematic. I cut the spades off and replaced them with a two-wire weatherpack connector. I know there are some who don’t care for those connectors, but it works pretty well.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=118201&d=1575059065
Here’s what the whole thing looked like in October:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=118202&d=1575059078
On my first few go-kart runs, I noted a clicking sound coming from the right rear axle. I posted another thread about that here: https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?30126-Clicking-sound-from-right-rear-wheel. This issue was present for some time – like until just recently. It cured itself. Here’s my thinking: the bearings weren’t lubricated because they sat for a long time – i.e. almost 4 years… Finally, after enough revolutions, they are back to the way they should be. I heard the clicking right after I got it registered, but then after a few trips, I didn’t hear it anymore. Problem solved – or at the very least, delayed.
The following weekend, I brought self-embarrassment to a whole new level. Here’s a link to the original posting: https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?30207-It-cranks-forever-and-then-backfires-Why
You had a number of good ideas. The problem: it was out of gas. The real issue here was that the fuel gauge had not been correctly calibrated, so it was not really evident. Lacking any other good ideas, I added fuel and voila! It started right up. Don't I feel like an idiot.
Between the end of October and Thanksgiving nothing was accomplished on the build. Instead, we went on a pilgrimage to the Holy Land. Our trip was led by a Carmelite Priest, with a Jewish guide and a Palestinian bus driver. These guys were amazing. They’ve been working together for almost 30 years. The trip itself was life changing. I have a million photos, but I’ll just share one here:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=118203&d=1575059122
An olive tree in the Garden of Gethsemane
Back at work on the car, the next item was to finally finish the e-brake. I had been putting that off, but I knew it would need to be completed eventually. This was another one of those tasks that I had no clue about. I chucked the kit-supplied clevis, and sprang for the Lokar part. It was much easier to deal with, except that the block of the clevis where the cables are secured was binding on the bottom of the frame. My solution (maybe good, maybe not) was to fabricate an extension to the e-brake handle. This way, the pull location had a better angle on the cables allowing it to go under the frame without hitting it. Here’s a link to a related thread I started at the time: https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?30712-E-brake-clevis-binds-on-frame&p=350556
And, some photos:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=118204&d=1575059133
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=118205&d=1575059146
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=118206&d=1575059158
This sub-project took me through Christmas.
Some time ago, I had made up some brackets for the backup light and installed them. I checked my measurements again, and decided that I needed longer brackets to get the light lower. Otherwise, it would only light up the body… I made these brackets, but as it turned out, they were too short, too!
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=118208&d=1575059185
Next up was dealing with the seat heaters. Another one of those projects that I had put off. The heaters had been aging a while in the office, so it was time to get them installed!
I started a thread here: https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?30887-Looking-for-a-circuit
Getting the elements into the seats themselves was relatively straightforward. It was probably the easiest part of the whole installation. The challenging part was the wiring. And, of course, my choice of routing and switch location only made it more complicated. I decided I wanted the switches on the tunnel, in front of the shifter. This way I didn’t have to extend the wiring. I also wanted to run the wires inside the tunnel. That necessitated drilling holes large enough in the floor aluminum to fit the connection points on the seat heater wiring. Then, I needed to insulate and secure the wiring inside the tunnel. I thought it’d be a piece of cake doing this from above. In hindsight, it probably would have been easier from underneath. Here are some photos of the wiring:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=118209&d=1575059200
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=118210&d=1575059213
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=118211&d=1575059272
Two trips to Florida and a couple of business trips later I was able to focus once again. I did spend a little time at the end of January on light wiring (see this thread https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?31134-connecting-lights-to-the-harness )
and elected to use weatherpack connectors. Overall, I think that was a good choice.
All of a sudden, it is March, 2019. I’m thinking about everything that needs to be completed before the body goes on for the final time (at least in my garage). One of those items was the fuel vent filter; the other was roll bars. Let’s cover the filter first.
There’s some good documentation on Jeff Kleiner’s approach to fuel venting. Depending on the weather, the fuel level and recent activity, I could get some fairly strong gas odors in the garage. I read Jeff’s instructions a few times, compared those to edwardb’s, acquired all the requisite parts and got to work.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=118213&d=1575059296
Did I take a photo of the completed filter? Of course not. Whatever.
I had put off the cockpit and trunk aluminum as long as possible. It is much easier to access everything from above than crawling underneath! But, the time had come to get the clecos out again and button everything up. This was another job I thought would be pretty quick and straightforward. Maybe it was straightforward, but it wasn’t quick by any means. Here are some photos:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=118214&d=1575059307
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=118215&d=1575059322
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=118216&d=1575059341
I could also finalize the seat heater wiring and mount the seats. Learning from edwardb, I elected to put spacers under my seats, too. The purpose was two-fold – raise them a bit, and provide a path for the seat heater wires without them getting squashed. The only impact was that I needed to get longer bolts to mount them.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=118217&d=1575059359
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=118218&d=1575059373
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=118219&d=1575059525
I learned the hard way that the main frame rail is just about in the center of the seat. My first seat hole went inside the frame rail. Well, I guess that isn’t going to work, is it? Next try was outside the rail, but guess what else is there! The brake lines! That one was closer than I would have liked to think about. Keep this in mind, because this topic will raise its ugly head yet again…
It’s the end of March already. Still haven’t pulled the retirement trigger completely, but we’re close. It’s getting warmer outside and it’s easier to work in the garage. By now, I have all the lights plugged in using the weatherpack connectors. Typically, I left the master cutoff switched off, just on general principle and so I don’t fry myself. But this day, I had it on. Why are my brake lights on?
Duh! The switch isn’t seated properly. I need to get this fixed before I can button up the outside of the footbox.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=118220&d=1575059535
I talked about these little issues in a thread here: https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?31765-Fun-with-brake-lights-Maybe-not-so-much
So, while I’m messing around trying to adjust the switch to work, I had the brake light on top of a towel on the floor. The towel was between the lens and the floor, ostensibly to protect the lens from the concrete. Wrong. Check it out:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=118221&d=1575059549
Thanks to 2bking, I got a new lens. I’ve made a lot of friends here – I thank God for everyone on this forum and their willingness to help!
Check out what’s in the manual:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=118222&d=1575059560
Thanks to the nut on the switch body side of the bracket, the switch won’t extend far enough. I had to either eliminate the nut on the backside, or get a thinner nut. I bought a new switch, and sure enough, the nuts that came with it were these really cheap thin things. It worked perfectly! Or sort of. We’ll see this later, too.
Here are the two nuts:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=118223&d=1575059575
I know you are supposed to be able to adjust the pedals themselves, but I have yet to figure that out.
I decided I wanted to be able to remove the trans tunnel cover if needed, and I wanted something other than carpet on it. I looked into different pieces of leather, but nothing really got my attention. I settled on marine vinyl – it looks good, only the trained eye will know it isn’t leather, it was relatively easy to install. Ducky2009 (David) pointed me in the direction of volara closed cell padding. I used 1/8th inch.
So I plugged the original shifter hole, covered the whole tunnel top with insulation
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=118227&d=1575059674
Then glued on the pad, then glued on the vinyl. I was hoping that the multiple layers would mask the oval mark from the covered hole, but you can still see it a little. You have to look for it, but it’s there. Here’s the finished product:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=118234&d=1575059765
Don’t get too hung up on this piece of vinyl, because you’ll see later that it’s getting re-done.
I completed the Jeff Kleiner mod so I wouldn’t have to drop the fuel tank to get the quick jack bolts in place. I had the double female parts installed – I just needed to get the long pieces in place. I bought a 36 inch threaded rod, cut it down to size and voila! Everything works.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=118235&d=1575059879
I buttoned up the footbox and got the seatbelts installed.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=118236&d=1575059896
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=118237&d=1575059914
We’re making progress.
The roll bars were interesting. The driver side parts fit pretty well. I was able to get everything together, drilled the holes and got the bolts in place. The passenger side was another story. The hoop fit just fine, and the brace went into the angled socket fine, but getting the hoop to line up with the brace was not in the cards. It was off by a good 1/8 inch, if not more. I sanded, pulled, tugged, you name it. It wasn’t going to happen. W.C. Fields had a good quote that fits well here: “If at first you don’t succeed, try, try again. Then give up. No sense being a damn fool about it.” There you have it. I kicked the can down the road, knowing that everything was going to come apart in Mr. Kleiner’s shop anyway. He didn’t seem concerned about getting it to fit!
Remember the complaints earlier about the power steering reservoir? It’s back. This item is one that has just kept coming back to haunt me. I started another thread on this topic here: https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?32129-Teflon-Tape!
Your collective ideas solved that problem. Just one left. It still leaks. We’ll come back to this.
I have a co-worker/friend who is restoring an older Corvette (C3). He took it down to the bare frame and is rebuilding from there. I think his project is more complicated than mine. I got this in the mail from him:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=118228&d=1575059690
It is “proudly” stuck on the side of my tool box…
Working through my list of issues, I asked for help with the water temperature gauge. I didn’t think it was working and was concerned that either the sender was bad (not my fault), or the installation of said sender was bad (definitely my fault). I’d run the engine for a while, but nothing seemed to register. I started this thread on the topic for your advice: https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?32216-Debugging-water-temperature-gauge
By the way, the clock is reasonably accurate. Or it was until we went to standard time. Now it’s off by an hour!
Before the body could go on (remember, everything is focused on this activity…), I needed to undercoat it. I had planned to do that a couple of years ago, but I guess time got away from me! I went shopping for truck bed liner and settled on Duplicolor. It worked pretty well. Here are some photos of the process:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=118230&d=1575059713
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=118232&d=1575059741
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=118233&d=1575059754
Just a few items remained: mount the lights on the body, install the rearview mirror, and drill holes for the wipers. Doesn’t that sound like fun? These tasks were much easier with the body on a buck rather than on the car itself. The only one of these that was nerve-wracking were the wiper holes. Even though the wiper kit includes a jig/template to use, there were plenty of opportunities for me to screw it up. Thankfully, it came out pretty well.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=118239&d=1575059953
I was all set to mount the body and happened to have a conversation with Martin (broku518) regarding carpet. I wanted to ask him about what he used in the trunk. During the course of our conversation, he suggested that it was a whole lot easier to install carpet without a body in the way. Boy, am I glad I listened to him. I also asked your advice on glue in this thread:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?32252-Carpet-Glue
I used a combination of silicone and 3M 77 adhesive. Six months in, everything is still in place.
Painting the seams black was a good idea:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=118240&d=1575059976
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=118241&d=1575059991
Here are some other carpeting photos:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=118243&d=1575060048
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=118244&d=1575060060
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=118245&d=1575060075
Memorial Day weekend. We can put the body on for good – well, at least until Mr. Kleiner takes it off… Everything was in place. It went more easily this time than the last, because by now we (my crew of wife and neighbors) had a pretty good idea of actually how to do this!
Here we are ready to go!
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=118246&d=1575060095
And on:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=118247&d=1575060120
No one has taken me up on the body buck offer yet. It’s unassembled, but still available.
Remember the power steering leak? I couldn’t believe it was still there. I decided it had to be something else. Mark Reynolds and I traded emails about possible causes and he suggested that perhaps we had the wrong fitting in play. I took the return hose off the reservoir and took a look. Looked OK… then, for some reason, I turned the fitting upside down. Out came this:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=118248&d=1575060132
Hmmm. I don’t think washers are part of an AN fitting. Problem solved. So here’s what I think happened: I made a mounting bracket for the “X” frame on which to mount the PS reservoir (remember I had to move it from it’s first home) months ago. Maybe even a year and a half ago. It was a pain getting everything in place and I seem to remember losing a washer in the process. Well, there it was. It fell from my hand and managed to land in the fitting. That’s the only explanation I have. In any event, it hasn’t leaked since. Maybe I shouldn’t be as frank as I have been regarding my own foibles. Nah – it’s too late for that.
Trunk and hood. These were pretty easy. More or less. I took the easy way out, as I knew Jeff Kleiner would take everything apart and fit them properly anyway. So the goal was to attach body parts in a way that they would pass muster with the state inspector. I wasn’t trying to be sloppy, but “good enough” was all that was required to get past inspection. Here are some photos:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=118249&d=1575060149
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=118254&d=1575060270
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=118255&d=1575060286
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=118257&d=1575060317
The windshield proved to be easier than expected as well. Although it was a bit unnerving, considering how many cracked windshields I’ve seen or read about. It was all about extra caution on this topic. Take a look:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=118256&d=1575060302
Interestingly, while I was in the middle of attaching the windshield, a contractor’s van pulled into my driveway. This guy walks right into my garage and starts talking about his car. Come to find out, he has a Mark II roadster! His name is Mark, he’s a remodeling contractor, and was doing work on my street. He noticed the activity in my garage, and couldn’t stay away any longer. He ended up helping me secure my windshield… He’s visited twice since!
By the first day of summer, 8650 actually looked like a car!
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=118258&d=1575060332
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=118259&d=1575060393
I got all my paperwork together, took the requisite photos and sent off my package. I wrote about that here: https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?32672-Kinda-Sorta-Almost-legal
Now, it was a waiting game to see when the Secretary of State Police’s inspector would call. I had heard estimates ranging from six to eleven weeks! He showed up on August 23rd:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=118260&d=1575060406
He told me I should have my plates in “a couple of weeks”. I did!
Now we got to start the shakedown phase. Jeff Kleiner and I talked a couple of times and he suggested that I should put some miles on the car and work the bugs out before getting it to him. That sounded fine to me. So off we went!
Let’s detail some of these issues:
1. PS pulley out of alignment
2. Clicking from rear axle.
3. Sun shades falling off
4. Popping fuses left and right for light circuit
5. Side pipes with less than an inch clearance from the street
6. Oil puddles in the garage
7. Leaking coolant from the PS cylinder head
8. ATF puddles in the garage
9. MIL light on
Does that sound like enough? Some of these were easy enough. Others, well… Let’s take them one by one.
PS pulley out of alignment. This whole power steering system has been my nemesis. You’ve read about it; you’ve seen the pictures. Most of those things were my own doing. The pulley is a different story. It probably isn’t a big deal, but it’s one where I have no experience to rely on, so it’s a bigger problem. I started yet another thread on this topic here:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?33534-Power-Steering-problem
Mike Forte and I discussed this one at length. The pulley on the pump, mounted on the engine, is just a little off. There are no adjustments possible, from what I can see, other than the pulley shaft. Mike and I talked about moving the pulley “out”. So I did. Little by little, because I’m afraid I’m going to pop it off… I got the proper tool to move the pulley and have moved it out gradually. It’s still not right, but at least the belt isn’t working off the pulley. I’m just afraid to move it too much. For now it’s OK; I have a new belt from Mike to install as needed, but I want to get it on a lift and get a really good look. That will happen in the spring. Next!
Clicking from the rear axle. Remember this one? I mentioned this after my very first go-kart. You know, after driving the car for a while, it stopped. Thank goodness. I think the bearings are properly lubricated now (they’re sealed, I believe) and they’re not making any noise. At least that’s my unscientific assessment. So, either it’s OK, or it’s going to fall apart. I’ll vote for the former.
Sun shades falling off. Of course, I discovered this on a night time drive… I’m coming home from our church after a meeting and I notice the sun shade dangling in the breeze. I mounted them in the Jeff Kleiner way, and apparently hadn’t tightened the screws enough. All of the parts had dropped onto the carpet in my footbox, so they were easy to find. 10 minutes and done!
Popping fuses. This one got me. Initially, everything worked. However, I noticed that there was a problem with the DS parking/signal light. I talked with Dan at FFR and he determined that the fixture was bad and sent me a new one. (thank you Dan!) Then, fuses started popping. Well, it turns out, in my infinite wisdom, I had transposed wires. It took a week or so (and a lot of fuses) to figure that one out, but once I got the wires right on that fixture, everything has been good ever since. Phew!
Side pipe clearance. This one has several components. First consideration – J-pipes. As much as I tried to tighten them, they’d move. Down, of course. Next consideration – the body. I was reluctant to cut too much on the pre-cut opening, lest I make things worse. I trimmed a bit on the passenger side, but I left the driver side alone. Nevertheless, they were still hitting. Try as I might, I had very, very little clearance. I couldn’t get my foot under the DS side pipe. I complained about this little problem with David (Ducky2009) on the phone one afternoon, and he suggested I reach out to JDAV because he had the same problem and came up with a solution. I did. Not being that patient a person, I also started searching the forum for a solution. I found Joel’s (JDAV) comments in his build log and that gave me enough to keep looking. I found what I wanted in wareaglescott’s log! Sure enough, it seems that Scott originated the solution that Josh had used. Or, so it seems – I didn’t look to see if he had gotten the idea from anyone else. Not trying to avoid giving proper credit – I only went as far back as Scott’s log!
The solution included rubber exhaust hangers (shock absorption) and a turnbuckle that would tighten/raise the side pipe. I found some similar items on line, ordered everything and got to work. I cut and powder coated some aluminum to form the bracket on the frame, and used radiator hose material on the inside as padding. I made the padding long enough that I could put the bolt through it so it wouldn’t work its way out. I made up the necessary brackets to put everything together and here are the results:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=118265&d=1575060485
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=118267&d=1575060583
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=118268&d=1575060598
It got me a significant amount of clearance, so I’m pleased with the result. We’ll see what Mr. Kleiner decides when its time for him to put it all back together.
Oil puddles. Not sure where the leak is. I have tightened every spot I can get at. I’m not going to fix this one until I get the car on a lift when it’s still hot. I can live with this until spring.
Let’s deal with the coolant issue and ATF issue together. These were troublesome. I started another thread on this topic here: https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?33835-Two-problems-ATF-and-Coolant-related-Or-cylinder-head-and-transmission-Ouch
Fortunately, the coolant issue has a happy ending. It was the 90 degree quick connect fitting on the PS cylinder head. I replaced it with the Gates-branded part (edwardb recommendation) and it’s been fine ever since. Here it is:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=118269&d=1575060615
After talking with a bunch of people – and knowing full well what the permanent solution is – I found an external sealant product from Permatex, “Spray Sealant and Leak Repair” (82099). I had several recommendations on this stuff and decided I had nothing to lose. If it works, I don’t have to drop the transmission. So far, so good. We’ll see how it looks over the winter.
MIL light. I started getting a P0116 code on the coyote early on. I knew there was a fix for it, and wareaglescott pointed me in the right direction. In his case, they sent him the software to update on his PCM. When I suggested that to Ford, the tech support line guy said that they didn’t do that any longer and I’d need to send in the PCM. Since the louvers weren’t installed at that point, it was relatively easy to unbolt it from the frame and ship it to Detroit. Two days later, it was back, fixed, and re-installed in the car. No more false errors!
As October, 2019 was coming to a close, the goal was to get in as many miles as possible and find a time that my wife and I could drive to Indiana in decent weather. Usually, late October is good weather, but not this year! It got cold and wet much earlier this year. One afternoon, we hopped in the car, headed out to a paint shop to review color samples, then drove to our daughter’s home. It was getting chilly (and dark) and it was time to head home. We didn’t even make it out of her town.
At a stoplight, the car died and wouldn’t start. There was a pretty strong gas odor and the impatient souls behind us were letting us know that the light had changed. We got out and pushed it into a bank parking lot and called AAA. Now the fun began. When I explained the problem, the Roadside Assistance lady on the phone said that I needed to have the local fire department clear the vehicle before anyone would tow it. I told her I’d get them over and reminded her that I needed a flatbed. Of course, it was nearly 6 PM, and the receptionist for the fire department was gone for the day. The automated attendant didn’t offer any extensions, only “if you know your party’s extension…” I called 911.
A few minutes later, the truck showed up, followed by Officer Gina. Everyone was very nice and most sympathetic. The tow truck operator called and said he’d be there shortly. I reminded him that I needed a flatbed and the line went silent. “I’ll have to get back to you on that” Hmmm. This was part of the original requirement. He calls back and says “My boss won’t let me take a flatbed. You’ll have to get someone else.” Another call to roadside assistance. “They’ll be there in 2 ½ hours” she reported. Officer Gina looked at me and said, “I can have a flatbed here in 20 minutes.”
“Sounds good to me!”
He showed up in 19.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=118270&d=1575060759
I have limited experience with tow trucks and/or roadside assistance. That, in my mind, is a good thing. The lesson learned here for me is that you’ll probably get better service with the firm contracted by the local Police than you will with AAA. Keep in mind that I’ve been a loyal AAA member for 36 years. Maybe it’s time to reconsider that subscription…
So, back to the problem. The tow operator helped me get the car back into my garage. The next morning, I pulled the right rear wheel off, expecting to find the problem between the fuel tank and the connection to the flex line. Nothing. But, there was a puddle forming under the engine! I pulled the cover off the engine and it was plain as day. The connector between the rubber hose and the fuel line had let go.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=118271&d=1575060792
Installed the new connector and we were back on the road.
Lately, my go-to people are Fred (Corvette owner in my neighborhood) and David (Ducky2009). They’ve both been a tremendous help. David suggested that perhaps my fuel pressure was too high. Sure enough, it was a little over 65 lbs. 55 is recommended. Was that enough to pop the connector? In any event, I reduced the pressure to somewhere around 55, maybe a little over. I’ve put another 300 miles on the car since without issue.
Remember the comments about where the seat lies relative to the main frame rails? One of the last items I addressed before driving to Jeff Kleiner’s was installing the 5th point of the seat belt harnesses. I wanted to drill the hole through the plate in the floor as close to the center as possible. The driver side was no issue. The passenger side is another story. I sensed something wasn’t right when I drilled my pilot hole. I crawled underneath and could see that I had just missed the braided fuel line. This could have been a disaster. Lesson learned: check underneath before you drill!
Louvers. I had the stock FFR side louvers sitting in a box aging since the kit arrived in 2015. I guess I had been putting off dealing with them because I wasn’t sure about how to bend them. Then, GoDadGo published a video on that very topic. He and I chatted and I decided to give it a go. He was more successful than I.
In his video, GoDad used angle iron. I had a piece, but I also had two pieces of bar steel that I thought would work equally well.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=118273&d=1575060817
They didn’t. The angle iron is needed for its rigidity. “Take two” used the angle iron.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=118274&d=1575060830
This worked better, but the bending was not going smoothly. The first bend came out OK, but the second clearly did not:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=118275&d=1575060841
The louver had transformed itself – almost instantly – into scrap! I ended up buying the better louvers. They look WAY better.
No pictures on this one, but on November 4, my wife and I set off for Jeff Kleiner’s! Google reported it would cover 263 miles and take about 4 ½ hours. The day started out in the upper 30’s, so it was brisk as we set off. I stopped on the side of the road about 20 minutes into the trip because I needed to layer up a bit better. I added a hooded sweatshirt to the mix (hood up, over the hat) wrapped a scarf around my neck and life was good once again. All body parts inside the cockpit were comfortable. It was just the head, left shoulder and hands that felt the cold. I don’t recommend I-80/94 for anybody in any vehicle. That is one of my least favorite roads. The problem is that any trip east or southeast necessitates that road for me. It is at the southern end of Lake Michigan and the main interstate connecting Chicago with points east. The stretch between the Illinois/Indiana line and I-65 south was the worst part of the trip. Other than that, the miles flew by pretty quickly! More quickly than I thought, apparently, as my wife complained about trying to keep up!
We arrived at Jeff’s early afternoon, went over everything and were back home before 8 PM. Based on Jeff’s comments, it may be done before winter is over. Now I just have to figure out how I’m going to get it home.
November 21. This has been bugging me for some time now. You’ve seen / read all about my beloved wood veneer dashboard. Well, that was 8650 version 1. We’re on to 8650 2.0. What changed? I was never really happy with how the dash came out. It’s a case of my own inexperience/ability along with a healthy dose of stubbornness. The thing had bubbles in it that I chose to ignore and tried to gloss over. I fixed the really big ones, but there were others that I never noticed until the whole thing was installed. I debated for months whether I should re-do it, and that would have made sense while the car was here with the body off. But I didn’t. Instead, I plowed ahead with the intent of getting the car on the road as soon as possible.
So now the car is in Bloomington. We’re seriously dealing with color. And I had my head handed to me. Again. Jeff connected me with his paint supplier and he and I started talking colors. I told him about my favorites and he suggested that I get a small sample from a local (Chicagoland) paint shop and see how it looked in the daylight with the car. (This was the week before we drove to Bloomington) It looked awful. I liked the color, but it clashed with the “warm cherry” of the dashboard. Well, so much for that color. Then it seemed that every color I really liked didn’t work. My color choices were being seriously compromised by my godforsaken wood dashboard. Then I would look at photos of it, recall the time and effort to make it and try to rationalize the whole thing.
Finally, after a few conversations with some of you, I decided that it had to be re-done and now was the time. So there you have it. I think it’s going to look better in the end.
My choices came down to carbon fiber, leather, or marine vinyl. Keep in mind that I already have marine vinyl on the transmission tunnel cover. Also keep in mind the “bump” on the transmission tunnel cover. Jeff and I talked about carbon fiber and I ruled that one out. I have a wood steering wheel. Carbon fiber looks better with a leather steering wheel. That leaves vinyl or leather for the dash. I started looking for leather, and got a recommendation for Tandy Leather. Come to find out, they have a store about 45 minutes from me. I shot them an email asking them what they recommended for a dashboard. After a few days, there was still no response. So, a few days before Thanksgiving, I hopped in the car and paid them a visit.
They had some really good options and their guy Dan asked how soon I wanted it. “Today would be good”, I replied. He told me they were having a really good Black Friday sale on whole hides.
Friday: I picked up the hide this morning. Who knew that there would be a line 25 people long at a leather store? Didn’t matter – I was there early enough. Now I will have enough to do the dash and re-do the transmission tunnel cover. I just have to figure out a way to eliminate the bump from the shifter hole “patch”. I was going to take it all the way down to the aluminum and re-do the patch, but I don’t’ think I’ll be able to remove the cool mat insulation. I’m going to test a few theories and see what I come up with.
ProJoe
12-05-2019, 12:58 PM
you are VERY lucky that the fuel line didn't take your car. in the engine bay is the worst place for that to happen.
glad you're sorting through all of these challenges!
Here are some progress photos from Jeff Kleiner!
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=122781&d=1582141040
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=122782&d=1582141050
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=122783&d=1582141062
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=122784&d=1582141072
And a few more...
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=122785&d=1582141084
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=122786&d=1582141093
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=122787&d=1582141106
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=122788&d=1582141114
I'm off to replace the dash tomorrow and finalize the colors. Jeff plans to have everything completed early March!
Jeff Kleiner
02-19-2020, 08:19 PM
Oh heck Al, that was almost two weeks ago. As of last Saturday it's all one color again!
https://scontent-ort2-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/p720x720/76203338_2401664756622885_4512549033545302016_o.jp g?_nc_cat=107&_nc_oc=AQnrR6uE8aXlYdLm-4JRQ2pFLtfkU2AbSIniY5UCxyOAkcw9R5TrPd3HBgV8biySmU4&_nc_ht=scontent-ort2-2.xx&_nc_tp=6&oh=bc11bd14e4249ab3bdf5ca6aea8e89c7&oe=5EC611E4
Cheers,
Jeff
Railroad
02-19-2020, 10:05 PM
That should put me one car closer to getting my car.
Everything looks great, nice job.
jiriza84641
02-19-2020, 11:35 PM
Al_C, nice too see your progress, ordered my kit on 02/18 couple date is 4/11. I hope to see your car once Jeff finishes it. I am sure I will reach out to you and pick your brain maybe even have you come by and turn a wrench with me, and of course pizza and beer is on me. I am located on the SW side of Chicago (the better side) near Oak Lawn.
Al_C, nice too see your progress, ordered my kit on 02/18 couple date is 4/11. I hope to see your car once Jeff finishes it. I am sure I will reach out to you and pick your brain maybe even have you come by and turn a wrench with me, and of course pizza and beer is on me. I am located on the SW side of Chicago (the better side) near Oak Lawn.
Yes, please keep in touch! I'll reach out via PM.
I was fortunate to travel to Jeff's shop this week to replace the dashboard. I invested a lot of time and effort into the wood veneer dash, but honestly, I think things worked out for the best. I covered a new dash in 1/8" landau padding and black leather. This little task, while seemingly easy, turned out to me more time-intensive than I expected. I appreciated Jeff's tolerance of me in his workplace! In addition to his moral support, he provided some valuable insights and an extra pair of hands as needed! Here are a few photos of the event.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=122945&d=1582386801
Haven't seen 8650 in this state for a while... While somewhat naked, it is much easier to work on mechanical stuff in this state!
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=122946&d=1582386817
This is where the fun began. I had forgotten just how many wires there were, and how many had been spliced together in spade connectors (e.g. grounds and RT turn signal wires). Once we (yes, it took two of us) got the steering wheel off, I needed to label every wire so I could reconnect them later. Yes, that was VERY time-consuming.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=122947&d=1582386832
A mess, perhaps? Now, to just get it all back under control...
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=122949&d=1582386861
All back together. Phew! On the original dash, I had used countersunk rivets to attach right angle pieces so I could connect the dash to the hoop from below. The original thought was that I'd be able to get at those connections more easily if I had to pull the dash. Well, the day came to pull the dash and those "from below" connections were a real pain, so I decided to go with black screws on the face of the dash. With Jeff's recommendations on the topic, we fastened the dash via 1/4" bolts to the dash supports from below, and will have one screw holding the top to the hoop. The ends support the dash as well, resting on the frame. Jeff will put in the single screw after the body is back on so he can determine the center (based on the stripe).
Finally, we got the color choices set! The main color is Lexus Brandywine and the stripes will be a 2005 Thunderbird color, the name of which I don't remember! Here's a photo in sunlight:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=122952&d=1582388215
and one in artificial light:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=122953&d=1582388230
I'm looking forward to seeing the result!
Jeff Kleiner
02-22-2020, 12:00 PM
Finally, we got the color choices set! The main color is Lexus Brandywine and the stripes will be a 2005 Thunderbird color, the name of which I don't remember!
It's called "Bronze". One year, one model only used on the 50th Anniversary Thunderbird.
Soon ;)
Jeff
Boydster
02-22-2020, 07:37 PM
Thats gonna be purdy...
Ducky2009
02-28-2020, 03:32 PM
Al,
Glad to see you got it all back together. Looks great.
Nice choice of paint colors too!
David
toadster
02-28-2020, 07:19 PM
It's called "Bronze". One year, one model only used on the 50th Anniversary Thunderbird.
Soon ;)
Jeff
very nice! how close is that 'bronze' to the 'bronze 25th anniversary wheels'?
Jeff Kleiner
02-28-2020, 07:42 PM
very nice! how close is that 'bronze' to the 'bronze 25th anniversary wheels'?
Not.
Jeff
Looking very good. I'm impressed with the drivers door, Jeff has that set up down. I'm struggling with mine now and am very close after working on aligning the body on the chassis. Everything on this body is related to everything else. Move something on one part of the body and you have to consider what else happens. Took about a week of work, on and off, but I'm now onto the hood and trunk lid fitting.
I've been scrolling through build threads and picking up a bit of info here and there, mostly from Jeff Kleiner, Jeff Miller and Ken Pike. Thumbs up to the time they take to help us all.
Enjoyed your build thread and looking forward to seeing that color on the car. :D
George
Looking very good. I'm impressed with the drivers door, Jeff has that set up down. I'm struggling with mine now and am very close after working on aligning the body on the chassis. Everything on this body is related to everything else. Move something on one part of the body and you have to consider what else happens. Took about a week of work, on and off, but I'm now onto the hood and trunk lid fitting.
I've been scrolling through build threads and picking up a bit of info here and there, mostly from Jeff Kleiner, Jeff Miller and Ken Pike. Thumbs up to the time they take to help us all.
Enjoyed your build thread and looking forward to seeing that color on the car. :D
George
Yes, Jeff, Jeff, and Ken are THE guys!
Ducky2009
02-29-2020, 07:23 PM
Al,
Not trying to rile the paint Gods but, when will it be finished? Going to look good!
David
David, The best answer is that it will be done when it's done! This has been a work in progress for, what, 4 1/2 years, so what's another few weeks? I know that Jeff wants to get it done, too, so I suspect it will be done when Jeff is finished! (how's that for avoiding the question....)
More progress! Here are the latest photos from Jeff Kleiner:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=123560&d=1583332160
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=123559&d=1583332144
I think this car is going to look amazing!
Jeff Kleiner
03-04-2020, 09:42 AM
I just told Al that the indoor LED and fluorescent lighting is throwing the colors off a bit in these pics. If we get some sun through the high clouds later today I'll take it outside and get some photos and also add a few I took for Al during various painting stages.
Jeff
jiriza84641
03-04-2020, 01:38 PM
Al. Well damn that is pretty. Getting more and more excited on my delivery and build. Looking forward to it.
TMartinLVNV
03-04-2020, 03:53 PM
That's gorgeous!
Jeff Kleiner
03-04-2020, 04:14 PM
OK, here are some photos of what went on the last 2 days. After Slick Sand was blocked it got 3 coats of 2K Primer Surfacer which was finished out to 600 wet.
https://scontent.fewr1-5.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/p720x720/88030954_2605168886272470_4148786043971174400_o.jp g?_nc_cat=104&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_oc=AQkDBAlaKXa3E-YnYZK7xgMB3c8PIWlGiwmjbpyfujPX2NL0E3E5Gog9E2oIBIsP INU&_nc_ht=scontent.fewr1-5.fna&_nc_tp=6&oh=ddc5a576169356d919b3c361df1b4ea2&oe=5E845FBA
This got covered with catalyzed sealer:
https://scontent.fewr1-5.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/p720x720/88224571_2606860372769988_1601098799323807744_o.jp g?_nc_cat=107&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_oc=AQkfbTRbLqYnIDpqPNG1aj-GtwjAvHmbjoW47bEOSMKVPVRQgPcxgWn3ZRlOvzcRHVk&_nc_ht=scontent.fewr1-5.fna&_nc_tp=6&oh=c54c9d91f3b713ed425d106a0d27a8c2&oe=5E94CAD2
Next was the Bronze basecoat up the middle for stripes:
https://scontent.fewr1-6.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/p720x720/88265945_2607115132744512_2202299860332314624_o.jp g?_nc_cat=103&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_oc=AQmMXai_N6x1Y0ntYPSKKPFgSgfmGapSz39fLS28A0g V0v9Ax8ledIjEDF08ZQMJqfY&_nc_ht=scontent.fewr1-6.fna&_nc_tp=6&oh=860873452b7c98f47331a5fd68449c4b&oe=5E931931
Then stripe layout (sorry, I forgot to get any pics of it fully masked)
https://scontent.fewr1-3.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/p720x720/88236421_2607520319370660_4542574239378571264_o.jp g?_nc_cat=110&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_oc=AQkqJ6fA72lFbG0nxavRhdbCzQLWpd9SaJbiHrFhIli E5vRnS71UtdZNU6F0zA1gpFQ&_nc_ht=scontent.fewr1-3.fna&_nc_tp=6&oh=20f98619e809e80944760e07a1fed5dd&oe=5E95613B
https://scontent.fewr1-3.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/p720x720/88261689_2611597595629599_1200456381572841472_o.jp g?_nc_cat=110&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_oc=AQngWrA4I8RsUTPTxfYfQn6YwImDhVn7qtPvb-OVvsf6U8RL7wyiIb4g6ULV3rdFI4U&_nc_ht=scontent.fewr1-3.fna&_nc_tp=6&oh=9632aa18987aacd60eecdc6125810958&oe=5E938F27
After laying down the main color base it's unmasked. Crazy thing is that it'll take a few hours to lay out and mask for stripes and only about 15 minutes to peel it all off and throw it in the trash can :rolleyes: This is before the clear went on:
https://scontent.fewr1-4.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/p720x720/88205496_2611599352296090_2293087407316140032_o.jp g?_nc_cat=108&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_oc=AQnb-YBs-5CCSOfK6zqNUPAYsrjdW3mJD7uNfPHZy2goPe8NlYj4eagluUK F4fOBBL8&_nc_ht=scontent.fewr1-4.fna&_nc_tp=6&oh=b71f3a458505d4081e33c6e3396155e6&oe=5E991692
Continued in next post********************************************** *******
Jeff Kleiner
03-04-2020, 04:16 PM
Continuing***********************
Al posted a couple of pics of it inside after clear in post #144. I drug it outside this morning to get some photos but it was still kind of cloudy as can be seen here:
https://scontent.fewr1-3.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/p720x720/88336119_2611630122293013_1769170335724208128_o.jp g?_nc_cat=110&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_oc=AQkLqBHFDCQx8z_eJlpn_FpbsBVCaoEO88EwptFyQEY btfh_AHiK6Ep9OBk4ng2XYeE&_nc_ht=scontent.fewr1-3.fna&_nc_tp=6&oh=262ed87a6919342455b6ca52aa0328d5&oe=5E94CA33
The sun came out nice and bright this afternoon though!
https://scontent.fewr1-6.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/p720x720/88960615_2611819422274083_7270285828511760384_o.jp g?_nc_cat=101&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_oc=AQl1zerVG4DaCtAfj_3lsJM5DGmM3dyuUXAh_1JtMkZ 3_6AZoZaNE-Plt3iNGtYXCtI&_nc_ht=scontent.fewr1-6.fna&_nc_tp=6&oh=2a1fde64f28065ff9564f144442c1545&oe=5E9420CF
https://scontent.fewr1-4.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/p720x720/88303464_2611807138941978_7513892383516262400_o.jp g?_nc_cat=100&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_oc=AQm7YUdh9fpMMOQ0inuDWHMa8At07PcVd4-XzhHr9Dl1YhRiB1frbM_StXH5wlC4bMY&_nc_ht=scontent.fewr1-4.fna&_nc_tp=6&oh=b37d01ce53b9e83ea64dd6e367d874fe&oe=5E933C42
https://scontent.fewr1-5.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/p720x720/88301485_2611814925607866_9088108080591273984_o.jp g?_nc_cat=105&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_oc=AQlnHnp7bVsMA80FJpC8aDg8dHmwfgJQr7ghyxe0zHv 261cP1ZEcIg-RNylgYWWm0bw&_nc_ht=scontent.fewr1-5.fna&_nc_tp=6&oh=f8bfef7abbbcadaa541ef37fd97be309&oe=5E9868D0
https://scontent-ort2-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/p720x720/88253736_2611809128941779_7325512042717118464_o.jp g?_nc_cat=108&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_oc=AQkKN48WSnhKbYN_GREryw8y7kZe72Yzl95JR-j6ccL1BxjvJa2fbZWk0uLyVuRPOuo&_nc_ht=scontent-ort2-2.xx&_nc_tp=6&oh=4b3b0971578dc057f4e4381f4417c2f6&oe=5E811939
Al was a little undecided on colors when he first brought the car but I kept suggesting this Brandywine & Bronze combnation until he went for it (OK, he might call it "strongarming" more than "suggesting"...whatever). I really like it and hope he does too! it's fun for me when I can do something besides just another blue or red---"not that there's anything wrong with that" to quote Seinfeld ;)
Jeff
Jeff likes to tell stories about customers who couldn't make up their mind. Or, at least it seemed that way. I guess I get added to that collection :)... I started out wanting a green car. So I visited an automotive paint supply shop and picked up a color fan. My wife and I both picked (independently) a color called "mocha pearl". It isn't green... One problem with that color was that it wasn't a PPG shade. We found a PPG equivalent, Rum Point; however, it looked horrible next to the wood dash. (It actually wasn't that much different than where we ended up) That started the "new dash" initiative and a quest for new colors. I tried them all: Alfa Romeo blue; Alfa Romeo red; Corvette blue; Viper blue; BMW racing green; Porsche burgundy... we were all over the map. Then Jeff shows me the brandywine. I bit. I really like this color and I think these photos look amazing. Thanks for the "nudge", Jeff!
Boydster
03-05-2020, 05:26 AM
That color screams Class. I knew it was gonna look great when I saw the sprayouts. Nice choice and nice work to Jeff.
FFinisher
03-05-2020, 08:40 AM
:cool:Looks great!!!
I know a guy who painted a car that color:cool:
Jeff Kleiner
03-05-2020, 09:35 AM
:cool:Looks great!!!
I know a guy who painted a car that color:cool:
Believe me, photos of that car were used extensively in my Brandywine sales pitch!
Jeff
Jeff Kleiner
03-17-2020, 03:00 PM
Al came to pick up his car today. I think he likes it ;)
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=124233&d=1584474992
Jeff
wareaglescott
03-17-2020, 04:54 PM
Congrats Al. Looks amazing!!
Ducky2009
03-17-2020, 06:11 PM
Al looks like a very happy man! Looks GREAT! Another great paint job by Jeff.
BadAsp427
03-17-2020, 06:59 PM
Al, That really looks fantastic.... Congratulations and a huge thumbs up to Jeff K for yet another work of art...
Jryasko
03-17-2020, 07:39 PM
Another beauty by Jeff. Congrats Al
Railroad
03-18-2020, 07:45 AM
No doubt I want Jeff to paint mine. Nicely done.
Thanks for the compliments! Jeff did an incredible job and was a joy to work with!
St. Patrick's Day was a full one this year: my friend Dan B. picked me up with his truck and trailer and we headed down to Ed McCormick's place to pick up his roadster. Then the three of us (along with Dan's dog) headed down to Bloomington. Unloaded Ed's car, loaded mine, visited with Jeff, and headed back. 12 hours, round trip.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=124261&d=1584539463
Dan, and Turbeau the mountain dog...
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=124260&d=1584539449
Boydster
03-18-2020, 09:30 AM
Very nice color selection... Classy.
Progress and challenges!
8650 has been home for a month now from Bloomington, and the weather is just now starting to act like spring. I have a relatively short list of items to complete prior to graduation, but a couple of them seemed like they might be significant. More on that in a bit. The list included:
- cover the sharp edge on the license plate where i trimmed it to fit around the trunk handle
- install the Herb Fraser door panels
- Install the wind wings
- Install the door stops
- Install carpeting on the door sills
- Fix the turn signals that don't work with the headlights on (yes, this is one of the significant ones)
- Apply the hood badge and side badges
- Put on the steering wheel hub (but not until I have determined I don't need to remove the dash)
- Identify the source of the oil leak
I'm making decent progress on these.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=126973&d=1587672595
Door panels? Check. (the white lines on the door itself is a reflection from the ceiling light)
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=126969&d=1587672505
Badges? check.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=126974&d=1587672610
Wind wings? Check.
Door stops will get done today, probably. Edge on license plate is done. Carpet? I found a thread from 2017 that showed the specific pieces and Boat737 and edwardb both responded. That helped a lot, thanks!
The lights. Ugh. I will get this fixed. Not sure exactly when, but I will get it fixed. I don't think a diode will do it, but will reserve judgment until I try. In the meantime, I need to spend some quality time with the schematic and draw out exactly how my RT turn signal interfaces with the RF wiring and compare that to what's installed. the biggest challenge is getting on my back under the dash so I can look up at the issue. Unfortunately, I'm not as flexible physically as I used to be. We'll figure it out.
So yesterday I decided to tackle the oil leak. Clearly, it had to be one of the two plugs under on the Moroso pan. I just had to get the car up on a lift or jack stands and get it warmed up. That was the easy part. Let's deal with that then we'll get to the hard part.
It's this one:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=126975&d=1587673522
Once it is better sealed, I should have an oil-free floor.
Now the hard part: As soon as I started it up, I could see fluid just pouring out onto the floor. Coming from the bell housing. But wait - it's ATF, not oil. Transmission seal? You can see how much fluid I was losing based on this lovely puddle:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=126970&d=1587672520
It got bigger. I shined a light between the bell housing and transmission and could see that the leak seemed to be pretty high up on the transmission. So I pulled the transmission tunnel cover off and saw this:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=126972&d=1587672544
Is it one of the cover seals or the vent? I figured if I started it up, I'd see pretty quickly where it was shooting out from. Didn't show much. The drip today was much smaller and I couldn't see where it was coming from - looking from above. Honestly, I expected to see it spurting!
In one of my more lucid moments, I figured that I had lost too much ATF for it to be throwing it around, so I crawled back underneath to remove the fill plug and pump in some more fluid. I got the plug off and fluid is pouring out of the fill plug.
Wait a minute. I lost this much fluid (see photo above) and I still have fluid coming out of the fill plug? If it was that over-full, why didn't I have anything leaking until yesterday? Why didn't it leak out when I drove the car 250 miles? Why didn't it leak out in the neighborhood?
Here's how you could help. Seen this before? What do you think: is it the vent or one of the cover gaskets? Why would I still have fluid pouring out of the fill plug when it didn't seem that it was over-full initially? Thanks in advance!
Jeff Kleiner
04-23-2020, 04:27 PM
Al,
Just an FYI , it was leaking a small amount of ATF when it was here but not anywhere near that much! It was losing more from the engine that the trans.
Jeff
Railroad
04-23-2020, 04:44 PM
Drain trans fluid to proper level, hopefully seals will be able to keep the proper amount in without leaking.
You may get some dripping, if it is inside the bell housing. I would spray everything down with some brake cleaner, except seals.
Well, don't I feel stupid. Did you know that Dexcool looks just like ATF? Especially when it is all over the transmission and leaking from the front of it?
I got a much brighter light on the problem area this afternoon, seeking a crack or leak anywhere on the top front of the transmission. I couldn't see anything coming out of it, but I could still see fluid on the bellhousing. Dripping down. Here's the culprit:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=127136&d=1587763843
So the orange stuff was dripping down onto the bell housing and splashing all over the top of the transmission. Time for a new bypass valve. Much easier than dealing with a transmission.
So how did I make this massive miscalculation? Easy. I'm predisposed to thinking transmission leak because I still have the vertical seam leak. I've had the un-repaired oil leak for months, so I automatically think under-car rather than under-hood. I just have to be able to distinguish one fluid from the next...
Part of this is “let’s see how complicated we can make it”. The other part is “whew! Progress at last!”
Last we heard, there were a few larger shakedown problems, and a few smaller items needed prior to graduation. We’re almost there! Let’s review:
1. Heater bypass. Originally, I installed a Four Seasons 74809 bypass along with a custom-made bracket fabricated by none other than Ducky2009. That combination worked extremely well for a good 800 miles. Then it didn’t.
Once we realized that the problem was the bypass, I got another one. Same part. Same modification (remove the vacuum part). Same original (fixed) bracket. That one lasted about 12 miles. Mind you, Ducky’s valve is still going strong after, what, 2 years? Go figure. I am just destined to have all of the rookie problems because I don’t know any better, I guess.
So I shot an email to the four seasons people, told them the part I was using, how I was using it and what my problem was. The response was something to the effect of “we don’t recommend that modification. No matter what you do, that part is going to leak.” OK, message received!
My resulting search turned up an Old Air part, 25-1018. It’s very closely related to the four seasons part, but it’s cable operated and cost $25 more. Designed for cable operation. Ordered, delivered, installed. The only issue I had was whether or not it needed to be anchored anywhere. So I emailed the Old Air people and the response was, “no, it can float just fine.” So, there you have it. And here it is:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=128519&d=1589729014
Remember the oil leak we talked about in a previous post? Some sealant on the NPT plug and voila! No more leak. Mark that one done.
2. Turn signals don’t work when the headlights are on.
You may recall I whined about this issue recently, going so far as posting another thread about this little issue. Advice was “sounds like a ground problem”. Pretty accurate, actually. My little brain was focused on the problem being caused by some inept connection under the dashboard. That predilection gave me pause and resulted in not really wanting to explore it further because I was really, no, REALLY, going into uncharted territory. And, by the way, the body was on, so the only way to examine the wiring was from underneath. Oh, the joy of it all…
I got everything (notes, RF instructions, drawings) out in order to make a specific schematic, thinking that would help me find the error in my ways. Then, a few days ago, I had the epiphany to shoot a note to tech support at Ron Francis. I explained the symptoms and what I had done for troubleshooting. Their guy Keith stated that it had to be in the front turn signal fixtures. The more I thought about it, the more that made sense. The more I thought about it, the more I thought I should have figured that part out on my own! Sure enough, the wires were backwards on the weatherpack connectors for the front turn signal lights. It took longer to get the car up in the air to provide access than it did to fix it. This was way better than the alternative of trying to troubleshoot a wiring problem under the dash! Never did draw the schematic. Whatever.
Have you ever tried to spend time looking under the dashboard without killing your back? I conjured up a platform out of plywood and 2x4s that is the same level as the door sill. I push it up next to the body, cover it with a couple of towels and lay down on it. It works pretty well. I made this thing specifically so I could work on wires behind the dash from underneath, but it really came in handy to get at the bolts holding the bypass brackets on the firewall. Fortunately, I don’t need it anymore, and hopefully won’t be needing it. My neighbor suggested I not tear it down quite yet…
So right now, in spite of myself, I have basically two things left to do before graduation: glue the carpet to the door sills and install the door stops. I held off on those until the lights were fixed as I wanted to open the door as much as possible. I should be able to get the rest done in the next week or so, depending on weather. If it’s nice out, I’d rather be driving.
Ducky2009
05-17-2020, 07:30 PM
Good job Al at figuring it all out. Sometimes calling to right support people is the smartest thing we sometimes overlook.
It’s been 7 months since I updated this build log, so we’re right on schedule! There really wasn’t that much “building” going on, but I thought it might make sense to recap the driving season and some of the issues – no, “challenges” – met along the way. I know that this car will never be done, but I’m thinking that this update should effectively be the closing chapter on the build itself. On to the update!
May: after giving the car its weekly bath (I got lax on that as the driving season progressed), I noticed that DS rear wheel sits higher in the wheel well than the PS does. Take a look:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=129120&d=1590613501
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=129117&d=1590613350
After some research and talking with others, we collectively decided it must be a result of a difference in camber on the left rear. I’ve had suspicions about the accuracy of the alignment done on the IRS, and this topic will come up again later.
Prior to graduation, I needed to get two items addressed: door sill covers and the door stops. The door sill covers were a cosmetic issue to find a good way to dress up the outside edge of carpeting. I did a separate thread on that here: https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?36242-Finishing-outside-corner-of-carpet
I think the resulting solution came out well. I just need to get some mats on the floor as I can see the FFR carpet starting to disintegrate under the pedals already. That’s a winter project.
Finally, after 4 years and 8 months, I was able to document what I thought entailed “done”. It was June 8: Graduation! Here’s a link to that thread: https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?36307-Please-Graduate-Roadster-8650!
I was humbled by the response.
For sometime in June, I suggested that we have a Chicago-area get together. That suggestion took on a life of its own! On June 28, a bunch of us got together in the town square of Woodstock, IL, had an impromptu car show, and then headed off en masse to Eagle, Wisconsin – for lunch. It was a blast. I made a bunch of new friends and got one piece of advice: “get rid of the front license plate.” Thanks, Pete. Here’s a group photo from Wisconsin:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=130676&d=1593384151
After the requisite pissing and moaning, I finally took off the plate. In hindsight, I’m glad I did.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=130879&d=1593632675
July 11 was a fun day. Being a Saturday, I had my usual round of golf, only this day I was taking the roadster out to Aurora Airport in Spring Grove, IL to get photos with an F8 Bearcat. That trip and the aftermath were a highlight of my summer. (Needless to say, given the pandemic, it didn’t take that much to be a highlight…)
Here’s a link to that thread: https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?36704-First-trip-in-the-rain!
Here are two photos, not included in that thread that are pretty cool:
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=138954&d=1607533137
This is a Pratt & Whitney R-2800 Double Wasp making 2300 HP. I remember seeing a modified pickup with a radial engine that was displayed at SEMA a couple of years ago. That was pretty wild…
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=138955&d=1607533153
This little tug is how John and Doug move aircraft in and out of the hangar. While less than half the footprint of the roadster, it weighs in at 3800 lbs!
The fall brought a couple of new items to deal with. Well, one of them had been around since the beginning. I have the Quicktime bellhousing and it hung down at least an inch and a half below the oil pan. My frame is 4” off the ground. That meant that I had about 2.5 inches of clearance under the center of the car. I avoided speed bumps like the plague and learned to be extra vigilant of the road surface in front of me. That needed to get addressed.
But first, we had to deal with the exhaust. You can read about that fun time here: https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?37324-Snap-Crackle-and-Pop
Lesson learned: check your exhaust pipes regularly.
I got a call from my friend Greg in October. He had just acquired a four-post lift and wanted it to get used. He said “bring the Cobra on over and we can put it on the lift!”. I thought that was a pretty good idea because I knew I needed a lift to deal with my bell housing. Well, I didn’t NEED a lift, but it would certainly be easier. Greg’s driveway is a slight rise into the garage. The lift has ramps that extend about 18-24 inches out, and the platform is effectively 5 inches above the concrete floor. Between the driveway angle, the ramps and the 5 inches I needed to get up, it didn’t work. I hit the side pipes on the ramps and the bell housing on the platform.
The solution was a couple of 2 x 6 boards 8 feet long. We put them up against the platform, lowered the ramps down on top of them and gave it a whirl. It worked just fine until I had to give it a little gas to get over the hump, so to speak. The rear wheels shot the ramps out about 25 feet like a couple of rockets. Well, I guess the limited-slip works…
We ended up getting the car onto the ramps and then pushing it the rest of the way. More effort, yes, but it succeeded. Once we had the car in the air, it was a simple matter of grinding away! That bellhousing is pretty thick and it took quite a while to get through it. While I’m thankful that the angle grinder has a disk shield in place, that limited how high I could cut the housing. Whatever. I wore goggles, hat, long sleeves, gloves. Next time I try something crazy like this, I will use a face mask. That way I won’t burn my beard. I ended up pulling a gator up over my nose, and that did keep the sparks off my face. A full face shield would still have been better.
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=138951&d=1607533066
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=138950&d=1607533027
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=138952&d=1607533078
https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=138953&d=1607533090
The last thing I want to get done this year is a 4-wheel alignment. After another failed attempt at a shop that had been recommended to me, I thought I was going to have to learn how to do this myself. You may have experienced this yourself: I get to the shop, the office guy says no problem we can do it, then the technician can’t find the car in his computer.
“I told you that you wouldn’t find it there. You have to use the specs I gave you.”
“I can’t do it if it isn’t in the computer. Maybe we can look it up by VIN.” That was the last straw. I politely suggested we call it a day, but he wanted to keep looking. Go ahead, I thought, you’re only wasting your time.
So while I’m thinking about what I need to have set up to do it myself, I happen to have a conversation with Jeff Kleiner. I told him my tale of woe and he mentioned there might be a shop that could do it about an hour or so away from me. That afternoon, I get a call from NUHALE (Bryan). He, too, had been talking with Jeff and knew about the shop. Problem solved.
While I was talking with Bryan, he mentioned that his axle nuts on the IRS had loosened and he recommended I check mine, too. We both have the “old style” IRS. Sure enough, while the PS was OK, the drivers side was really loose. The easy way to test it, Bryan said, was to jack the car up and see if the wheel wobbled. I can attest that the test works.
Lesson learned: check your IRS. Even if you did torque it to specs (as I had).
Since the middle of October, each time I’ve taken the car out I’ve been saying it might be my last trip of the season. Nevertheless, here we are in early December, and I’m still taking her out! Thankfully, we have had no snow or salt on the roads. Those two items are deal killers. We got out briefly last weekend, and I fully expect that is my last trip of the calendar year. But who knows?
Winter projects:
1. Paint the aluminum in the wheel wells black. (another Pete suggestion)
2. Floor mats
3. Hydraulic cylinders for the trunk lid.
4. Alignment.
5. Replace the PS pump belt with the shorter one sitting on top of my workbench.
nuhale
12-09-2020, 01:17 PM
I've had continuous issue with my axle nuts loosening... maybe I need to stop the burn outs!
I just replaced the nuts with the solid ones that have a nylon locking ring in them and torqued them down around 250-300lbs. Hoping this tackles this or else next plan is to double nut them.
GTBradley
12-09-2020, 03:52 PM
I have the exact same issue with a bigger gap on the right side rear fender. My painter is going to look at it soon to see what we can do about it. I’ll let you know what we find out but I can tell you that alignment is not the issue for me.
Also, have you measured from the ground to the fender lip on both sides and are they the same?
nuhale
12-09-2020, 04:13 PM
Al, I just looked at mine and it's pretty darn close side to side. I know you've probably looked at the obvious but make sure your ride height didn't settle and still even both sides. I made a little jig with some 2x4 that is 4" and 4.5" (front & rear) and I check here and there for settling.
It can also be the track width as well as camber. When you get over to the guys at Don Hansen's alignment have them take a look at the track width. They do it anyway with thrush angle. I did mine just a bit wider for a nicer fit with the 17" rims I have. Cant recall the exact width but remember 59.5" from tire mount surface. All of that should get it much closer to even.
I have the exact same issue with a bigger gap on the right side rear fender. My painter is going to look at it soon to see what we can do about it. I’ll let you know what we find out but I can tell you that alignment is not the issue for me.
Also, have you measured from the ground to the fender lip on both sides and are they the same?
My frame measures 4" on both sides, front and back. If you look at the car from the rear, it looks like it is listing to port. Jeff Kleiner is the one who suggested camber. He also said that the bodies don't always sit evenly or something to that effect.
Al, I just looked at mine and it's pretty darn close side to side. I know you've probably looked at the obvious but make sure your ride height didn't settle and still even both sides. I made a little jig with some 2x4 that is 4" and 4.5" (front & rear) and I check here and there for settling.
It can also be the track width as well as camber. When you get over to the guys at Don Hansen's alignment have them take a look at the track width. They do it anyway with thrush angle. I did mine just a bit wider for a nicer fit with the 17" rims I have. Cant recall the exact width but remember 59.5" from tire mount surface. All of that should get it much closer to even.
I'm looking forward to getting to their shop. That will answer a lot of questions for me. I just don't know if that will happen before spring :D Although, it's pretty nice outside today (and tomorrow, too, I believe) and I plan on getting out with it if I can.
nuhale
12-09-2020, 04:38 PM
Just for clarity in Chicago we consider 50F "nice"... :cool:
Looking at your June cruise pic again I notice that there is a lack of BLUE in the lineup. too much Red IMO besides Craigs black and Dave's silver... Next spring we will have some contrast!!!!
Alan_C
12-09-2020, 04:53 PM
I just saw your thread, congrats on the successful build, beautiful car. The body color you chose is almost the same as what I used a Honda color called Dark Cherry Pearl. I love the dark reds and dark colors really seem to look good on the Cobra body. Now that the car is done, enjoy.
Turns out I last showed my car at the 2015 Cruise in. I remember well as we got our first shower on the way home from the show.
I used a Honda color called Dark Cherry Pearl. I love the dark reds and dark colors really seem to look good on the Cobra body.
Photo?
Jryasko
12-09-2020, 07:25 PM
Totally agree on the too much red in the photos. You and I have not met or spoke yet but hopefully next season we will meet up. I have had the pleasure of meeting Al. 9735 will change up the color scheme for sure and I know there is another Kleiner Blue model from down south here.
Ed Mc
12-09-2020, 08:11 PM
I will be representing blue next spring. Got my car back from Jeff Kleiner early November, Spectre Blue with pearl white stripes, but it has gone into hibernation as I don’t have a heater and 50 is a bit chilly
Alan_C
12-09-2020, 09:40 PM
138976
I went with a Toyota dark grey for the stripes. Jeff Miller called the contrast a phantom stripe, not in your face like the bright whites and silvers.
Many similarities to what you did in your build, just a few years earlier and essentially pre-Coyote. I installed a 2004 4.6L DOHC engine from a Mach 1. I sold the car in 2018 to fund my 70 Mach 1 restomod which is Coyote powered.
I will be representing blue next spring. Got my car back from Jeff Kleiner early November, Spectre Blue with pearl white stripes, but it has gone into hibernation as I don’t have a heater and 50 is a bit chilly
It's going to be 54 today! Your lower body will be plenty warm, just wear a hat and gloves. Maybe we can meet someplace mutually inconvenient half way!
138976
I went with a Toyota dark grey for the stripes. Jeff Miller called the contrast a phantom stripe, not in your face like the bright whites and silvers.
Many similarities to what you did in your build, just a few years earlier and essentially pre-Coyote. I installed a 2004 4.6L DOHC engine from a Mach 1. I sold the car in 2018 to fund my 70 Mach 1 restomod which is Coyote powered.
That combination looks great. Someone got themselves a great looking car!
Ed Mc
12-10-2020, 01:18 PM
Al
I would love to meet but have babysitting duties with the grandkids. Let’s hope for an early spring!
Ed
Al
I would love to meet but have babysitting duties with the grandkids. Let’s hope for an early spring!
Ed
Yup, no contest. See you in the spring!