Retro Racing R build

[RetroRacing]

Oh yes, we have cameras!

[Mitch Wright]

VERY Nice

[FFRSpec72]

Will you all be running a muffler at all ? I'm running stock exhaust until turbo and then a straight pipe back, not sure that will put me over the 103 db limit or not

[Mitch Wright]

I checked my car with open exhaust when I go karted at our sound station, I was right at 100db at 50ft at 6800rpm

[FFRSpec72]

I checked my car with open exhaust when I go karted at our sound station, I was right at 100db at 50ft at 6800rpm

I wonder if 8k will make a difference ?

[Mitch Wright]

It will but the day I was running it was low 50's the cooler temps can be worth +2db. The 100db was not duplicated the other 9 readings were 98.2-98.8. Also cloud cover and low ceiling has an effect. Bob and Michaels car here is 92-93db I believe they are running just a cat.
Our track rules here are 103 @ 50' (SCCA rules) and we require a muffler so I have installed a 12" DynoMax race muffler. In the shop at low RPM it sounds about the same as without the muffler but they always sound louder in the shop.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Bob and Michaels car here is 92-93db I believe they are running just a cat.


The 92-93b at NCM was with an OEM up-pipe cat and OEM downpipe cat from our 04FXT donor.
A couple of weeks ago, we tested with a Cobb catless up pipe. I definitely was louder, but we didn't measure at the track.
With our recent engine swap, we are back to OEM set up.
Bob

[RetroRacing]

We are running an Aerotech muffler, it's pretty throaty at idle, but we are pretty sure we will be fine at song.
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[Sgt.Gator]

The 92-93b at NCM was with an OEM up-pipe cat and OEM downpipe cat from our 04FXT donor.
A couple of weeks ago, we tested with a Cobb catless up pipe. I definitely was louder, but we didn't measure at the track.
With our recent engine swap, we are back to OEM set up.
Bob

Bob, ditch the up pipe cat asap. When the up pipe cat starts to disintegrate it will take out your turbo. It happens a lot.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Bob, ditch the up pipe cat asap. When the up pipe cat starts to disintegrate it will take out your turbo. It happens a lot.
Thanks Gator.
Bob

[RetroRacing]

Car is done.
Here are a few pics before numbers and such. With all fluids, 22 gal of fuel and a driver, we are at 2190, so about 100lbs more than the 1750 dry that we thought we could do. Still scratching our heads about that, so I'm not happy. Looking at some lighter rims (-40lbs)
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[RetroRacing]

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[Hindsight]

Excellent! Really looking forward to vid. Is the race this weekend or next?

[Canadian818]

Looks great, nice work with the aero, it'll be glued to the road. Who makes that wrap? It's amazing!

[Mitch Wright]

Guys the car looks fantastic, congratulations.

[Frank818]

Same wrap I'm using, I bought mine from a US seller, but 3M, Avery and all major ones usually have that matte blue available.

[Sgt.Gator]

Great looking car.

[RetroRacing]

3M matte blue, with matte black on the accents. Stay with 3m, or Avery, way easier to work with!

THank you all for the kind words, can't wait to get it on track!!!

[Frank818]

Get it on track? Are you crazy? That's a show car, it cannot roll, too many chances for something to wear out or chip the awesome wrap, powder coat and other neat stuff on. :)

Get it on track now and tell us about the engine and how fast it goes around the track! :)

[FFRSpec72]

Will you all have any welding ability with you at the track ? How about alignment ability ? Trying to figure out what I might need to bring

[Sgt.Gator]

Retro has welding. I have SmartStrings I can bring if he doesn't have alignment.
http://www.smartracingproducts.com/smartstrings.html

[FFRSpec72]

Retro has welding. I have SmartStrings I can bring if he doesn't have alignment.
http://www.smartracingproducts.com/smartstrings.html

Please bring those if you can, I have caster/camber and turn plates, I'm just not sure how much tweaking this car will require.

[RetroRacing]

So, first of all, with out Tony and Gator, we would not be here today to tell you all, you must have a dry sump to run an R! Running short on time right now, but just wanted you all to know how great both these guys were, helping us out with our multiple teething pains. The car was wonderfull when on track, should be 4 seconds faster next time. Will update tomorrow with some video (I hope).

[Harley818]

Nice work guys, the car looks awesome. Good luck racing, we are looking forward to video.....

[C.Plavan]

So, first of all, with out Tony and Gator, we would not be here today to tell you all, you must have a dry sump to run an R! Running short on time right now, but just wanted you all to know how great both these guys were, helping us out with our multiple teething pains. The car was wonderfull when on track, should be 4 seconds faster next time. Will update tomorrow with some video (I hope).

Uh Oh..... Motor went I'm guessing. :(

[Mulry]

Did you get it shut down before it scattered its guts?

[Sgt.Gator]

Did you get it shut down before it scattered its guts?

Yes. No external signs, just awful screeching sounds from inside.

The car is even more impressive in person than the pics. With the new engine and all the little bugs sorted out it's going to be awesome.

[Mulry]

Yes. No external signs, just awful screeching sounds from inside.

The car is even more impressive in person than the pics. With the new engine and all the little bugs sorted out it's going to be awesome.

Really glad to hear that.

Retro, FWIW there are plenty of ex-NASCAR oil tanks in good to excellent condition on eBay if you want to save a few (or a few hundred) bucks off new. Same with the oil pump, I bought ours that way then sent it in for rebuild/reconfiguration from a 5-stage to a 3-stage (2 suction, one pressure). We're working on a custom pump mount but I think that ARE may have one for sale along with the rest of the kit (pan, pump, mandrels & pulleys) if you want to go that route. Gator, where is that Avaid kit from?

[RetroRacing]

Between Gator and Elements, we have a game plan so thanks. Yes, something inside was screaming to get out, but nothing made any new holes. Here is list of things we need to do:

-reinforce the tube frame at the wing mount...at 5 degrees, it was bending the 1.25 square tubing.
-clearance off the stupid front fender mounts.
-stiffen rear and front spring rate to 700 rear and 500 front. (100lb increase for both)
-install new engine and dry sump
-get more air through the engine compartment (we have a cunning plan..)
-lower the seat another inch. BTW, we are already mounted to the floor bars and are still just 3/4" legal! WTF?
-fix a few mounts for the rear cover and dash cover, stiffen that as well.
-install lsd
-reset ride height.

The car was great, most everything worked as planned. Power on understeer was brutal, but easy to drive around (slower lap times). there was NO oversteer that I could induce, probably both a result of the stupid amount of down force and soft rear springs. The front tire rub really pissed me off, but we will fix.
All and all, a great test.
Uploading video today, will post link. The sound of the car is awesome!

[Sgt.Gator]

Gator, where is that Avaid kit from?
Aviaid - John Schawrtz. http://aviaid.com/ Don't try to buy off the website, call or email John.

He and I have been working on a new design for the pump. The Element Tuning version has the scavenge lines coming in the top and the out the bottom. The problem is the line out the bottom is a pain in the rear to put on and take off if the pump is mounted on the car. And the line has to make a very hard 90 turn and is jammed up on the engine block.

I think the solution is to come in the top and out the side, not the bottom. John has pieced together the parts to make that work. He is shipping me one today. But since I haven't actually test fitted it I can't recommend it yet. If you're not in a big rush let me see how it fits before you order it. And I don't think the mounting plate will work for both a Serp belt- A/C setup (Element) and a mandrel drive (Cosworth and everybody else). We'll probably have to make a mounting plate unless John has one that will work if you want to use the mandrel drive.

You can see in this pic how tight the bottom line is:
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[Hindsight]

Looking forward to seeing it back out on the track.

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Yes, something inside was screaming to get out, but nothing made any new holes.

Retro
Was the screaming you heard from the motor the same as ours?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdDsWhaqKQQ&feature=youtu.be

We have not had ours back on the track yet. You have me thinking hard about a dry sump.
Bob

[STiPWRD]

Did you log IAT? I'm curious how your AAIC performed. Looking forward to the video as well.

[RetroRacing]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=auBYK3dZN2g

This was the lap where I was scrubbing in a new set of slicks, running a new brake bias and you can tell the engine was letting go during the session, no power!
I will listen to your screaming, but Gator might be a better witness, as he was right there listening. AAIC temps were stable at 140 , but the temperature that day was 102, and we were having issues getting air out of the engine bay, wondering if we have some sort of reversion with out wing/diffuser combo. Looking to get better performance with some slight mods to the box. Oil temp was dead equal to water temp at 190, with the bottom air intake taped off.

The car was much faster earlier in the day, killed me to let the Cup Car get away.....

[longislandwrx]

my favorite thing about the video... no bouncing hood :D

[RetroRacing]

New video up, full power, first laps ever for the car.

[FFRSpec72]

New video up, full power, first laps ever for the car.

I see you passed me struggling to reach 5K. So how do you think these cars will stack up against Michael M. BMW R ?

[RetroRacing]

I know that just an LSD would make a 3 second difference, pulling past 7k should be at least 1-2 seconds and getting rid of the understeer another 1-2. That would put us in the mid 19's. Not sure what time Michael does, but our goal is sub 19's with chicane, sub 10's without.

[RetroRacing]

Dry sump is in and filled with 2.5 gallons. We cranked it over to get some oil into the system, should be able to start her up once a finish the venting lines. BTW, we did install the Peterson vacuum valve on the old oil filler hole and preset it to 20hgm. still have to shield the tank, not happy with where we had to install the tank, for weight reasons, but it is what it is for now.
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[Hindsight]

Awesome, that didnt take long. What header are you running?

[Sgt.Gator]

That's great.
Are logging crankcase vacuum/pressure?

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Dry sump is in and filled with 2.5 gallons. We cranked it over to get some oil into the system, should be able to start her up once a finish the venting lines. BTW, we did install the Peterson vacuum valve on the old oil filler hole and preset it to 20hgm. still have to shield the tank, not happy with where we had to install the tank, for weight reasons, but it is what it is for now.
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Retro,
Look great.
I'm waiting for my tank before my installation.
What brand and model hose did you use?
Bob

[Sgt.Gator]

Dry sump is in and filled with 2.5 gallons. We cranked it over to get some oil into the system, should be able to start her up once a finish the venting lines. BTW, we did install the Peterson vacuum valve on the old oil filler hole and preset it to 20hgm. still have to shield the tank, not happy with where we had to install the tank, for weight reasons, but it is what it is for now.
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20 inches of vacuum is a lot. You may be at the point of pulling air thru the crank and cam seals which is a bad thing, and also it dries out the bottom of the pistons. At 16 inches most of what I've read is you need piston oil squirters. I very highly doubt you could get to 20, (not even 14) but since the relief valve is a safety device you should consider setting it at 16 or 14.

[RetroRacing]

We think that may be the reason for the pump seal leak, the lip seal was folded out in one area, which is odd. Reseting it tonight to 12 just to be safe.

[RetroRacing]

Well, the fire system worked...........

Great test day on Friday, ran the car hard for 7 20 min sessions with a few minor issues that were 2 minute fixes. Actually got to tune the handling, but without an LSD, we were still leaving 3-4 seconds on the track. Same with ride height, but we have plan for that.
THen came Sunday, new drivers in the car, wet sessions in the am. Perfect weather in the afternoon, but first session out, something happened to the engine, then fire, then more fire. No idea right now, we couldn't see anything with all of the fire foam so we just loaded it in the trailer and had a beer.

The car was lapping 1:50 flat without the lsd, with 1 pound of boost removed and way to high on the ride height. It's easily a mid-low 40's car at the ridge, so we are really bummed that we are now out of the 8 hour in Portland and the 25 hour at T-hill. There is just not enough time to replace the engine, all of the hoses and wireing in the engine bay, tune and test.

Will let you know what we find when we find it, but I suspect something very bad as ALL 3 gallons of oil was missing from the tank....

[Frank818]

Oh crap I'm sorry to read that! All the great wrap must have taken a beating. Not sure you posted pix, some are blocked when I'm at work.

You are very calm, car catches on fire and you take a beer. :)

[Sgt.Gator]

Dang!! Sorry to hear that. What a mess! I can't imagine all the work in front of you to get it going again.

If you're game to drag out one of your old cars for a PIR or Thill "team practice", I'll be there. I'll be going to Thill25 either on a team or as a spectator no matter what. If my STI was running I'd offer it up for ya'll to use, but it's no where near ready for a 25 hour race.

[RetroRacing]

5958459585So, a stock JDM ver5 engine will rev to 8500.....once. We put a new driver in the car, new to the car that is, and he mistook a debrief discussion of where to shift and where not to. I guess our tuner did not set the rev limiter, he pulled 4th gear to 8500 and blew a rod cap through the top of the engine. Shattered the water crossover, note in the picture, the rod cap sitting on top of the block.
Lessons learned:
1. Trust but verify, we should have tested the rev limiters (set them low and rev)
2. Have a track map handy during debrief
We really did get lucky. We pulled everything off the car from the bulkhead back, and we have the block stripped down and have inspected/cleaned everything. burned some wires, hoses and wrap, along with some powdercoating. If our engine gets here in 2-3 weeks, we will have it all back together in a month or two, ready to test again next spring.
We are changing to 15" wheels up front for a few reasons. We can run a much lower front ride height, less brake leverage and less rotating mass. May need to change calipers, will know once we receive the wheels. We will then have a set of XXR 551 for sale. just sayin.....

[Scargo]

Where's the nut for the rod bolt? Looks familiar. Friend did almost the same, with fire. His extinguisher material was pink...

[RetroRacing]

they twisted off by hand....it was sitting on top of the engine as well.

[Frank818]

Was there any damage to the body panels (fiberglass, etc.) and/or wrap?

[RetroRacing]

Yes, we need to re-wrap the rear fenders, top cover and alum humps above the bulkhead. There goes a week.....

[Mitch Wright]

Looking at the photo of the rod/cap it looks like the rod big end and cap is blue and might have been tying up prior to breaking. It could be the photo but something to look into.

[Scargo]

Looking at the photo of the rod/cap it looks like the rod big end and cap is blue and might have been tying up prior to breaking. ... Does look blue, like it got very hot, and there is no sign of a bearing except possibly for a slight smear visible.

[RetroRacing]

We were checking for bearing as the day went on, everything looked good, but I havn't cracked the primary filter yet. Not sure why we would have a bearing issue unless our pressure is too high for stock bearings.

[RetroRacing]

https://youtu.be/rWFHeF03KE4
Here is the video from the Friday test day, two different drivers (im the faster one in the Carbon Helmet :p) As you can see, it really needs an LSD, can't put the power down out of the corners. We also need some front downforce, hence lowering the front of the car to get the splitter to work.
Love the shifter, and the no drama handling. Speed at the end of the front straight was 156mph, maybe we will keep the 4.44's!

[FFRSpec72]

https://youtu.be/rWFHeF03KE4
Here is the video from the Friday test day, two different drivers (im the faster one in the Carbon Helmet :p) As you can see, it really needs an LSD, can't put the power down out of the corners. We also need some front downforce, hence lowering the front of the car to get the splitter to work.
Love the shifter, and the no drama handling. Speed at the end of the front straight was 156mph, maybe we will keep the 4.44's!

Looks like you were at a lapping day event as some of the other cars were not really paying attention and holding their lines. I noticed it seems you were going through the carrousel in 4th ? When I had issues with tire rub was at the turn at the bottom of carrousel and at the turn at the end of the straight away on the back before going down the hill

My shifter totally is a POS and pure garbage.

[DanielsDM]

Looks like it was working pretty well. 156mph! Did you take out some rear wing angle since the previous event?

[RetroRacing]

We reinforced the rear wing so that it didn't bend backwards, so that may have helped. You could feel the aero wall approaching after a few seconds into fifth, so a little more power is required. We will be adding another 60hp for the next outing, taking it up to stock boost levels, we ran detuned for safety....ya, that worked!

Yes, it was a track day, blue mustang was a tool out there, new GT3 cup car (and I do mean new!) was afraid of it I think. We know that an LSD, lower ride height and 60 more HP is worth 6-8 seconds, which puts us into the low 40's there, which was our goal.

Supper easy car to drive, brakes are super awesome.

Jeff

[DanielsDM]

You posted earlier about the steel tube subframe bending where your wing supports attach. Can you post some pics of this area? I'm planning on doing something similar with my wing mounting.
What is your WHP now?

[wleehendrick]

blue mustang was a tool out there, new GT3 cup car (and I do mean new!) was afraid of it I think.

I noticed that; being afraid of Mustangs is just reasonable!

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[RetroRacing]

I will send pictures of what we did to support the area, but just as a description, we installed two brackets on the upper shock bolts, then ran a solid aluminum rod (drilled and tapped for hiem joints) down to the rear horizontal bar that is just behind the transmission. Removable, but super solid!
We were only running about 250 at the wheels, we set boost one pound under stock, on 92 octane fuel. We ran 100 through the system, so we can increase the boost to stock levels and dial in a bit more timing. Tuner sais easy 310 safely. :cool:

[Frank818]

1 week to re-wrap only these panels... how long did it take for the entire car the 1st time?

[RetroRacing]

WE stripped the panels in about half an hour, easy with some heat. Now we have some fiberglass to fix, vents to install, new hood latches, then the wrap. The Wrap of the complete top rear of the car will take the better part of a day. THe whole repair will take a week.

[FFRSpec72]

How many yards of wrap did you need to do your car ? and what width did you use ?

[RetroRacing]

We have been working on building engines for the 818, my EP RX7 and Terry's as well, all while installing a new front suspension in his car, helping a buddy totally rebuild his EP RX3 (which will probably kick our but now) AND finishing the repairs on the 818 after the fire.
We are now down to the final bits and pieces on the 818! new airbox, new stand alone water pump for the turbo, ceramic coating of entire exhaust, new mufflers (testing testing testing) all new wiring, plugs, rear hood vents, aero latches, new lsd, new 15" wheels for the front, blah, blah.
Off to the dyno next week we hope, looking for 300+ at the wheels at 18-19lbs of boost. That would give us the exact same power to weight ratio as the new Porsche Cup car. He is hoping.....

[Mulry]

We have been working on building engines for the 818, my EP RX7 and Terry's as well, all while installing a new front suspension in his car, helping a buddy totally rebuild his EP RX3 (which will probably kick our but now) AND finishing the repairs on the 818 after the fire.
We are now down to the final bits and pieces on the 818! new airbox, new stand alone water pump for the turbo, ceramic coating of entire exhaust, new mufflers (testing testing testing) all new wiring, plugs, rear hood vents, aero latches, new lsd, new 15" wheels for the front, blah, blah.
Off to the dyno next week we hope, looking for 300+ at the wheels at 18-19lbs of boost. That would give us the exact same power to weight ratio as the new Porsche Cup car. He is hoping.....

And a rev limiter on the ECu this time? :p

[Scargo]

Was just going back over the notes in the thread. You were running a used dry sump on a tired two liter engine. You had some porting work done and had rebuilt heads. Heads could be OK to 8,500 if all is to spec. # 3 let go. That's fed by #3 main which also feeds #2 rod. It looks like there is a gap between the journals, and the case halves show a gap as well. That's hard to imagine. Are my eyes deceiving me? Did you have any data logging going on or video of gauges? You seemed to know that it went to 8.5.
What is going back in?

[RetroRacing]

No data logging yet, but what let go was number 3 rod at over 9000 rpm, and yes, we have a rev limiter now.

We are putting in a new rebuilt EJ207 RA, with new H-beam rods and forged pistons. The dry sump was new, the engine had only 45k on it, but sat for 14 years like all other version 5 engines, not that it would have made a difference at 9k!

We did open up the head to match the intake, will be interesting to see what that gets us, with the P20 exhaust housing on the VF28. The gap I think was formed by the rod jamming into the block half.

[RetroRacing]

Got the wrap and blankets on the ceramic coated exhaust last night. It that doesn't make a difference then nothing will. Also, finished mounting and pluming our electric water pump for the turbo. Blew through it no problem when not running, so water will flow normally when out on track if the pump is on or off, then, when shut down for pit stop, our pit plug will run the pump to keep the turbo cool during pit stops or after running. The pump is on a 180 temp switch, so it will keep pushing water through the turbo until its under 180 degrees.

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[FFRSpec72]

Got the wrap and blankets on the ceramic coated exhaust last night. It that doesn't make a difference then nothing will. Also, finished mounting and pluming our electric water pump for the turbo. Blew through it no problem when not running, so water will flow normally when out on track if the pump is on or off, then, when shut down for pit stop, our pit plug will run the pump to keep the turbo cool during pit stops or after running. The pump is on a 180 temp switch, so it will keep pushing water through the turbo until its under 180 degrees.

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Very nice !

[Mulry]

Jeff, where and how did you install your high-pressure fuel pump? I've had many thoughts on this but all of them have con's (like everything else, right). Thoughts?

[RetroRacing]

In tank. We have a custom fuel cell that sits low in the passenger area, that has an internal surge tank, pump and high pressure feed pump.

[RetroRacing]

Picked up two new tow vehicles over the last few weeks. One was a 2016 Ford Superduty Diesel F250 to pull the 24' support trailer, and, a 1985 Peterbuilt called "Optimus Prime", which some people insist on calling BJ and the Bear. All I know, is towing should be allot less hassle.
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[DanielsDM]

We are also using a custom fuel cell, but with an internal pump and a surge box. The surge box has flaps that let fuel in but don't let it out. Haven't tested it yet so I can't say how well this setup works. We have seen similar setups work well in cars with much more down force and thus higher g loading.

[Scargo]

Why are you doing things half-*** with that midget trailer? JK You are the boss.

[RetroRacing]

So, not good news from the dyno. Our first attempt at a refresh on an ej did not go as planed, we seem to have bearing in the oil after start up, and the start of rod noise, so we are not making the Ridge.
Ordering stuff for our second motor, hope to do better this time. I think I know where we went wrong, but will only know for sure when we tear it apart. We also found some shorting in wires remote from the engine bay, but due to the fire (our wide band controller got fried). Right now, it is in detention for being bad, and so that we can focus on our three EP cars for the start of the season.

Jeff

[Hindsight]

Oh no! Sorry to hear that Jeff! But I agree with your approach - put it in the background and focus on the fun stuff for now. Come back to it when ready.

[Scargo]

So, not good news from the dyno. Our first attempt at a refresh on an ej did not go as planed, we seem to have bearing in the oil after start up, and the start of rod noise, so we are not making the Ridge.
... I think I know where we went wrong, but will only know for sure when we tear it apart. ... Jeff
I can empathize with you. Though I have had success I have had to stop and reconsider using several cases earmarked for an engine I was building. The EJ's are a little touchy to build. My main journals were way off in one used case I was trying to use and the other had a small front journal, which is not that unusual. An "X" King bearing fixed that. If you don't get #3 main clearanced right you are going to be f'd. If it's too big you had bettered have a lot of oil pump or you will take out #2 or #3 rods.
I had to get one case line-honed because I couldn't make it work no matter how I shuffled bearings. Case bolts and head studs you use, and how much you torque them, can also pull everything out of whack. Torque plates must be used when boring or line honing and all the pieces going into the build should be the same pieces/same torque used when measuring everything. I will not build another 500 HP engine without having the mains pinned. With a used or "aged" case you have to check everything because it can really move around once disassembled.
I had custom rods that were out of round until I torqued them to 100% of the ARP bolt's rating. Four to six pounds less left them uncomfortably out of round at 5~6 tenths when they were already at .002".
So, for a performance engine, a Subaru motor really needs a lot of attention paid to it.
Where do you think you went wrong?

[C.Plavan]

Sorry about the issues. I guess the darn R curse was not only on my old car. :( Speaking of which, My old car is getting a new motor :(

[Mitch Wright]

Retro, that is a sucker punch but good news is you know what the assembly issues were.
The great news is there are those of us that have not had engines issues with our 818 track cars and gathering data that will be useful to others. So when you guys get back to it I sure the car will be a beast.

[Sgt.Gator]

Dang. Hope to see the 818R at the PIR race May 4-5-6.

[Sgt.Gator]

Here you go Jeff, eliminate 2/3 of your fuel pit stops at the THill 25, and you could probably just put the car in 5th gear and never shift again!
Subaru EE20 Diesel.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNA5iMyPUUI


https://www.boxeer.com/

[RetroRacing]

THat's funny I was just looking at that engine!!!

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Here is a picture I took of that car at PP 2013

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[RetroRacing]

So, finally getting to the 818 after a bunch of RX7 stuff. Engine is back together ready for install in the car. We went with the 2.3l Version five RA top end, the best rods and pistons we could find. Cleaning up some wiring in the cockpit, then off to the dyno for tuning to 103 octane at 18psi.

Front tires are now 15" with 12" brakes, helped lower the car by over 2" if we want. Now the center tunnel is only an inch or so off the pavement, so no off roading! Installing the lit number panels on the doors, a new data capture unit and some aero latch. Then, vinyl repairs and we will be back on track for more testing.

[Mulry]

Jeff, IIRC you had some issues with your wing bending the smaller square tube behind the main chassis. Am I remembering that correctly? And if so, what was your solution to that -- did you just beef up the existing chassis or did you redirect the attachment point of your wing uprights? Thanks.

[DanielsDM]

...Front tires are now 15" with 12" brakes, helped lower the car by over 2" if we want. Now the center tunnel is only an inch or so off the pavement, so no off roading!...

Jeff,
How much squat do you think you'll get at 150mph with your aero setup? If it works as well as it looks like it should the tunnel may only be 1/2" off the ground at speed.
Looking forward to see it back on the track.

[RetroRacing]

69877

We installed two removable strut braces up to the top rear suspension points, so no more bending (and we can still remove the engine/transmission).
Yup, we are really wondering where our ride height will be at speed. We are running 0 degrees on the wing right now, with 750lb rear springs and 500 fronts, so you are right when you say we could see 250lbs of front down force and 375lbs rear at speed. test and tune, test and tune......

[Mulry]

Thanks Jeff. That makes a lot of sense.

[RetroRacing]

Started the car last night, new muffler sounds awesome. Making a dyno appointment today, will post video once we have it tuned. Since I blew up another engine in my EP car, time to focus on the 818.

[Mulry]

We started preliminary body fitting last weekend and it looks like your solution for 15" on the front makes a lot of sense. Which wheels did you end up going with front & rear?

[RetroRacing]

We went with Voxx Milena on the front, 7x15 with Hoosier 245 slicks and XXR 527, 9.75x17 on the rear with Hoosier 265 slicks

7111671117

They are both in flat black, and are similar enough that you can't tell they are different styles. We are running a Willwood kit front and rear, and clearance is REALLY close up front, so not sure what you have for clearance with what you are using. I can measure if you like.

[Mulry]

Thanks, I'd love to know the ID of the front wheel. We still have the stock 2002 WRX brake setup on the front and will likely retain that for the initial sorting and suspension setup runs with the car, but will swap to a Wilwood setup prior to doing any endurance racing.

Are you guys still shooting for the 25 Hours in December?

[RetroRacing]

Yes we are, it's going to be a tough road, but if the car behaves at the 8 hour in October, we are fully commited. I'm going to run it at as many of the one hours as I can from now until the October endure, plus track days at the ridge. We feel setting up for the ridge should be as close to thunderhillish as we can find locally.

[Sgt.Gator]

Bring it down to ORP next weekend!

[RetroRacing]

Ha! would love to but we have to dyno it, re-mount the body, install the data acquisition module, light panels on the doors, re-vinyl the fire damaged areas, etc.

[Frank818]

Nice rims. 245s are wide, I get rubbing on 215s.

[Harley818]

Apparently you are ahead of me in the dyno line. Just licenced my car on Monday. Lots of paperwork.
I'm going in for dyno next week.
Good luck.

[RetroRacing]

Ha! so are we, our oil pump lip seal is leaking on our cosworth pump, and, it's putting out 140psi of oil pressure, so picking up the car in the morning to pull the engine and change the pump to our 11mm spare. Never made even break in.....

[Harley818]

must be frustrating.....
I'm just breaking mine in now so my fingers are crossed.

[Frank818]

Ah that sucks! Those are the frustrating moments.

[RetroRacing]

Picked up the car Saturday morning from Racing Greed at 9:30, back to the shop 30min away, engine out, oil pump changed (crank seal was blown) and back in the car by 5pm. Loading it up tonight for delivery back to them tomorrow.
Gave us the chance to sort a few routing issues, so not a total waste of time....

[Frank818]

Next race or testing laps are forecasted for when?

That's bad English writing, isn't it?

[RetroRacing]

SO, engine builder came up on Saturday to look at the oil out of the filter. It's so frustrating when what you say is happening doesn't happen when you need it to, in otherwords, the oil was clear!
Now, we take it to Mission next-next weekend for a day of break in at 7lbs of boost to see if all is good. Our other block is out getting cleaned and rebuilt just in case, but fingers are crossed that what we were seeing was just bits from the last time, that may have been caught up in the lines and pump on the scavenge side of things, even though we cleaned it for days...

If all is good, testing again at the Ridge the following week.

[Mulry]

Good luck, Jeff. Hey, quick question -- I know we talked about this years ago (!) but could you drop a photo of how you did your intake from the turbo forward to the bellmouth on the passenger side front housing? I'm having a hard time visualizing it. Putting it together right now I'd have to build a snorkel LOL. Thx.

[RetroRacing]

72642

elbow back, straight, elbow up, 45 degree elbow so you are flat, then an inline filter to a velocity stack on the other side of the hump cover. We have an updated one using a metal inline filter housing instead of the composite unit, metal doesn't burn.....

[Mulry]

Thanks, that makes total sense seeing it that way (and I laughed at the dark humor too). Where did you move the header tank for the coolant turbo -- or did you just get rid of it with that supplemental water pump?

[RetroRacing]

72645
Moved it to the other side of the engine, mounted to the diagonal bar with insert nuts. A little more hose for plumbing, but easy install and can stay in the car when pulling the engine. It's also very high up, which seams to help in keeping air our of the system

[Frank818]

Hey Jeff, the oil issue sort of fixed itself by itself without knowing if it's really fixed?

[Mulry]

72645
Moved it to the other side of the engine, mounted to the diagonal bar with insert nuts. A little more hose for plumbing, but easy install and can stay in the car when pulling the engine. It's also very high up, which seams to help in keeping air our of the system

Awesome. Thx a ton.

[RetroRacing]

SO she is mostly back together, just left the diffuser/undertray off the engine for inspection purposes. We are not running it hard, bypassed the boost controller so we are limited to 7lbs of boost just to run it in and check for stuff in the oil. Not going to bother with tuning, just bolt checks and such during a test day at Mission Raceway.

Cross your fingers!
729587295972960

[Mulry]

Looking good, Jeff. I like the rain light on the back. Good luck!

[flynntuna]

Fingers crossed.

[longislandwrx]

nice job guys

[Frank818]

Looks just like new! Some of it is...

[RetroRacing]

yup, my vinyl skills are becoming legendary...

[RetroRacing]

So, took the car to the track. Was just moping around at 2500-3000 rpm but the car was handling great and everything was working fine......until oil started pouring out of the rear main, almost causing another fire!
We did get 20+ minutes on the car, with lots of decel for ring sealing, but man, why can't oil just stay in the engine where it belongs!!!
Fixing this week, hope to make the ridge practice next Friday, and the enduro on the Saturday, but with 2 engines, 3 transmissions and a but load of other stuff to fix on the EP cars, it could be interesting....

[C.Plavan]

So, took the car to the track. Was just moping around at 2500-3000 rpm but the car was handling great and everything was working fine......until oil started pouring out of the rear main, almost causing another fire!
We did get 20+ minutes on the car, with lots of decel for ring sealing, but man, why can't oil just stay in the engine where it belongs!!!
Fixing this week, hope to make the ridge practice next Friday, and the enduro on the Saturday, but with 2 engines, 3 transmissions and a but load of other stuff to fix on the EP cars, it could be interesting....

Damn 818R curse!

[DanielsDM]

So, took the car to the track. Was just moping around at 2500-3000 rpm but the car was handling great and everything was working fine......until oil started pouring out of the rear main, almost causing another fire!
We did get 20+ minutes on the car, with lots of decel for ring sealing, but man, why can't oil just stay in the engine where it belongs!!!
Fixing this week, hope to make the ridge practice next Friday, and the enduro on the Saturday, but with 2 engines, 3 transmissions and a but load of other stuff to fix on the EP cars, it could be interesting....

Noooo....! How does that happen on a dry sump motor? DS pump must not have been working, otherwise it would just suck air in past the rear main seal. Screw come loose on the pulley?

[RetroRacing]

no, new motor had more blow by than we hoped it would, and we usually run a sealed block. When we first started it, we notice that the blow by exceeded the vacuum created by the ds pump and removed the vacuum pressure regulator and just vented to the ds tank. We think we may have compromised the seal then, but it doesn't matter now, we have to fix.

[Frank818]

That is just not possible. There are some wicked witches around we need to hunt and hang!

[flynntuna]

Now Frank....we don't hang witches....we burn them at the stake.

[Frank818]

Oh yeah! Right, burning witches, I remember now. Sorry, never done it yet. Let's burn them ALL!!
Then who do we hang again?

[flynntuna]

Horse thieves .

[turbomacncheese]

https://youtu.be/zrzMhU_4m-g?t=23s

[Canadian818]

https://youtu.be/zrzMhU_4m-g?t=23s

So bad, lol

[Bob_n_Cincy]

Retro,
I see your rear main seal started leaking again.
What do you think is causing the problem?

I think your dry sump is set up similar to mine.
I have my valve cover crossover tube tee'd into the top of the DS tank with a -12.
My DS tank vent goes to a catch bottle with a -12.
All PCV related ports are blocked off.
Do you have any restriction in the DS tank vent.

I have not run mine as hard as you, so I'm just looking to avoid your problems.
Bob

[RetroRacing]

we did the vent thing first, teed the valve covers to the block vent, then omitted the oil fill in place of a dash 12 vent line to the ds tank. it leaked. so, we ran a sealed block with 12inHg of vacuum and it did not leak with the new seal in place, until we took it to the track, and it leaked really well....

Running the vacuum on our old engine worked like a charm, something else is going on here, it's leaking just sitting there when the oil in the ds tank levels off with the block.

[Sgt.Gator]

Jeff did you win the EIP Championship? I left right after Group 2 was done. I heard one of the RX-7s was spun out in the mud, but the person who told me wasn't sure if it was you or Terry. What an end to your season, one last race for the Championship in a rainstorm!

Racing in the rain was awesome, but the Start to Turn 1 was one of the scariest 10 seconds in my career! Total blackout from the mist, 100+ mph, no idea how much space there is between you and the car in front of you, no idea where the turn is until finally, you can see the next car's brake lights. Then you pray no one has spun out and is sitting sideways in the middle of the track!

Here's Curt trying to see out of his Corvette, who also had a fogged windshield problem. He installed a new Lexan windshield from 5 Star. He used their own cleaner / no fog, it didn't work:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZmDEsiEKJY&feature=share

The turn on to the front straight for the Start is at about 3:10.

[longislandwrx]

that looks pretty hairy at times!

[Sgt.Gator]

It was! Did you see what happened on the warm-up lap at 1:45? They were going maybe 30 mph.....now you've just avoided that one, but you're about to go 90-100 mph behind 40 cars into turn 1 and thinking "if anybody in front of me does what that guy just did we are going to take out 1/2 the cars in this race!"

In our conference rain lights are only required on the Open Wheel and Sports Racers, but not Producion class cars. I noticed in the video that normal tail lights don't do the job. I think I'll be adding rain lights on the front and rear of any race car that has a chance of racing in a rainstorm. I also noticed that the color of the cars didn't make a big difference, they all disapppear in the grey gloom. In my race 90% of the cars had no headlights, so the ones passing me would appear like ghosts in the gloom right next to me. A couple of times I heard them before I saw them. It wasn't until we got strung out and the tire mist effect went down that I could see them coming in my mirrors.

Or you could just not race in the rain. But it's actually a lot of fun once you can see what's in front and behind you. It's just the first lap or two that is really freaky.

[flynntuna]

Kind of like skiing in a whiteout. Now were was that drop off again? You gotta hope everyone in the race knows the course like the back of their hand.

[RetroRacing]

Yes I did win, even with only 9 finishes and one DNF, it came down to that last race, Retro takes 1-3 in the championship. Pole positions save lives....
Terry was chasing me down in the rain, I was in Chris's car for the day (still managed a new track record morning qualify in the dry of 1:51.9 on my third lap) and had no idea what to expect in the rain. Terry got on the gas a little to early coming onto the straight and looped it, which was a real shame because we were having a great time. I was getting very creative with my "rain" line....

[longislandwrx]

my pucker moment would have been at full fogout at the 4 minute mark.

at like 4:06 car in front disappears in front of the dark tree line? i think it's a tree lol.

[Mulry]

Jeff, which pedal cluster are you using? I think we're going to have to swap out of the stock one to get enough length in the cockpit for driver comfort for long endurance stints. Am looking at Tilton and OBP versions with the reversed M/C's but was wondering if you've hewn a path for us to follow (again)? :)

[RetroRacing]

We used tilton, reverse mount, Tilton 76 Series Compact Master Cylinders. We installed all new mounts to hang them, so they are super solid and come to within .25" of the fire wall when fully depressed. We have our fuel cell in the passenger compartment, so our seat can go all the way back, but we are just a few inches forward right now.
We thought about floor mount, but you have to have the M/C pointing at the firewall, which moves them closer to the seat and defeats the purpose.
7392273923

[DanielsDM]

We used the same pedal set, fabricated custom mounts for the pedals and steering column. I tried 2 different floor mount pedal sets, wilwood and OBP with reverse masters. Both were too cramped.

[Mulry]

That's great information. Thanks guys.

[Sgt.Gator]

Jeff see my last post here: http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?12442-Brando-s-Newbie-818R-Build-Thread/page23 You've got three RX-7s on the team, you need another 818R!

[RetroRacing]

damn you! You have me thinking..........
Someone needs to buy an RX7 from me.

[Sgt.Gator]

Since your three Rx-7s dominate your class I don't think you'll have any problem selling one!
How much do you want for one? ;)

[RetroRacing]

Mine is 20k usd. it's a full choromoly cage, never hit or bent, one new uber light 12a engine, one almost their, 3 sets of wheels, 4.5" clutch, 4lb flywheel, $1k shifter that is un-fing-real, Emco gear box, IQ3 dash with GPS timing and track mapping, wilwood pedal set with balance bar, custom air box, equal length stainless header, that ends at the rear diff, Koni double adjustable's front and rear, coil overs, aluminum front hubs, FIA seat, FIA Omp endurance belts this year, helmet blower, Real carbon fiber switch panel, all new wiring and switches last year, direct fire MSD, dual boxes, OMP steering wheel with F1 style quick release, so in otherwords, about $70k worth of car.

Damn, I hate adding this stuff up......

Good luck bidding the 818!!!

[RetroRacing]

So, primary engine is Fu@$ed. Oil in the water, copper dust in the oil, steam our of my ears. Bought and are installing a Ver5 engine with 50k miles on it to run the enduro. Changing the cam seals, timing belt, oil and water pumps as service items. I will have the shop turn it down a touch to maybe 270hp at the rear wheels, but bringing a spare car just in case.

WHat sucks is, neither of these issues are the reason we pulled it! It just had a leak at the rear seal! Well, I guess it was good we found the issues this way, rather than on track.....

Will update our dyno session when we get it there later this week.

[Mulry]

Ugh. Wasn't this one rebuilt before it went in? No?

[RetroRacing]

Yes, new engine.....
Builder is taking it back to fix it, we have a second engine being built as well. Slitting my wrists soon. I thought rotary's were a pain!

[Sgt.Gator]

Are you swapping out the turbo too? If not I'd certainly give it a close inspection.

I don't remember if you still have the OEM oil cooler - heater, or if there's one on the "new" engine, but if you do I would replace it.

[C.Plavan]

I think I would of gone Ecoboost at this point. Yeah a little more work, but the Subaru motor is just having issues in the 818R chassis it seams.

[RetroRacing]

Yes, we are installing a new oil cooler (even though the old one was after the filter) and the turbo. We want to beat the Ferrari ........

[Sgt.Gator]

andare più veloce !

[RetroRacing]

colpito più duramente.

[Sgt.Gator]

I'm meeting RetroRacing at Portland International tonight to setup for the 8 hour Enduro on Saturday. Praying we make it the whole eight hours. My 818R will be there too, ready to cannibalized for emergency parts. I'll get some pics posted asap of the setup and great Victory!

[Mulry]

Good luck!

[Hindsight]

Nice, good luck to both of you! I demand pictures and video. I can't be the ONLY person around here posting race videos.... I don't even have an R!

[mikeb75]

Good luck all and I 2nd Hindsight - want to see videos!

[DanielsDM]

Good luck! Put an 818 on the top step of the podium!

[RetroRacing]

Ya, that sucked.
Engine got new head gaskets, then to dyno for set up (270hp, 270ftlb). Then, off to the track, half a lap in practice, boom, oil and water everywhere (probably head gasket), little bit of fire in the belly pan, then parked. Took out our "reserve" car (RX7 sprint car) was killing it for the first half hour of the race, then the front strut sheared off, completely!

Car looked good, big thanks to Gator and Gator Aid for all of their help! We will get this sorted!
75496

[Sgt.Gator]

It was a tough day for 818s. We were paddocked next to Dragonfly Racing's 818R center drive 25 Hour Thill car. It was awesome having two high end 818Rs next to each other. I hope in 2018 they will be next to each other at the Thunderhill 25. Unfortunantely things didn't go so well for them either. They made it about 4 hours then had to stop with an overheated 6 speed STI transmission. They weren't running a tranny cooler.

It was fun being on the RR crew, thanks for the opportunity Jeff!

Pics of the Dragonfly 818R from race day:

https://vmusvw.by3302.livefilestore.com/y4m9mUW_TjnD8QWnlhX1Kx7ySl5mm8RQ4GpLqdH1oqtLXBLvKJ qnWXjzzmDtGSfgkziVzBkjm2VpY0ALKlFedu1EPE0HZSvU3rpK xzL9sTGxjoh6S3HBRKqR8JI-pAVnhLRU88bsJ3luoqhrktG9FEAjDNUkPoKipgv05XRif1JaVn p0ZvaLjc4oHe8pR0j-iKJkTp_ttxECCuOYcgZWRMUag?width=1024&height=503&cropmode=none..
https://vcusvw.by3302.livefilestore.com/y4mxuibenEXwePwKF4cOyADvxbc-enE1RT6gZ_9DQezPCWlFBnwi1NfUrvFj0m1IKUyGbJq2Lv4p1m nuP00vRH4OJkWTaW0vghMipQdGM_T_rh4xaHRTBNf0fMpff-h6ebwTUAjhVGafFVN2MUAVrbqwt0C4kMjwi_GPuFgGC4YucG2q 3vm3cwAfqt08xOnts3PJJwEsCCpd-utXNRWO4i2RA?width=1024&height=460&cropmode=none

[Scargo]

Car looks really good. Best of luck!
The center-drive car looks very serious, too. Where is its gas tank?

[DanielsDM]

Ya, that sucked.
Engine got new head gaskets, then to dyno for set up (270hp, 270ftlb). Then, off to the track, half a lap in practice, boom, oil and water everywhere (probably head gasket), little bit of fire in the belly pan, then parked. Took out our "reserve" car (RX7 sprint car) was killing it for the first half hour of the race, then the front strut sheared off, completely!

Car looked good, big thanks to Gator and Gator Aid for all of their help! We will get this sorted!
75496

Bummer. The witches and gremlins win again. Car looks great though.

[Mulry]

Damn. I hate to hear that Jeff. What lubrication system are you running -- the Element/Avaid sump setup or the Killer B? Can't remember which one went on this time.

[RetroRacing]

The elements set up, but that isn't the issue. I am sending the car over to NW Ralleysport for a look. I will keep you all informed.

[turbomacncheese]

Love that door vent on the dragonfly!

[Frank818]

Hey Jeff, this really doesn't make sense, you deserve a working car no questions asked. I hope things will straighten out soon.

That green Dragon is sick though.

[RetroRacing]

I agree on both point, the Dragonfly guys are pretty awesome.

[RetroRacing]

Off to breakin the new engine at the Ridge. Please cross everything, pray, wish us luck, sacrifice a chicken (not KFC, doesn't count), whatever you can do to help us get over this engine hurdle.

[Mitch Wright]

Good luck

[Sgt.Gator]

Off to breakin the new engine at the Ridge. Please cross everything, pray, wish us luck, sacrifice a chicken (not KFC, doesn't count), whatever you can do to help us get over this engine hurdle.

If it works well are you coming down to PIR next weekend for the season opener?

I know about the chicken sacrifice...my Blue Sake Bomber STI is at Surgeline getting the new engine broken in on their dyno. IF that works ok I'll head up to ORP on Sunday for a longer on track break-in, then hopefully to PIR next weekend.

I'll pour a double Blue Sake for both our cars in offering to the Subaru Engine Ancestors.

[Frank818]

I'm crossing everything! And I mean... everything! loll Hope it's gonna work.

[RetroRacing]

Ya, well that sucked.
First session, noticed a ticking/slight binding in the right front wheel that got worse on track. Pulled it in after 10 minutes, pulled the right front caliper off, clearanced the caliper to the new 15" front wheels, 10 minutes and good to go. Noticed a little oil on the bottom pan, but nothing major.
Went out for session two, still keeping it under 4k rpm at 7psi, for a full 30 minutes. Came in to smoke in the engine bay, pulled the cover and there is oil everywhere.....Put the lid back on, towed it home.
Now, we don't know where all the oil came from, could be a fitting but sense it is everywhere, I'm thinking it's the rear main again, oil being flung about by the flywheel. With the new massive venting system in the block, I don't see how this is even possible, but we will see later this week when I get her back into the shop.

On a positive note, it was a dream to drive, even on three year old tires. limited power on understeer, brakes were great. I could keep it in 5th in all but two corners, staying under 4k the whole time, kicking the crap out of GT4 911 through the corners. At about 3700 rpm, the thing wants to push me through the seat, at part throttle! It took everything I had to focus on keeping it under 4k until I got into a rhythm. Can't wait until the oil stays in the engine and I can step on it at 15psi!!!

[Sgt.Gator]

Dang, that does suck.
I think it's time for a new engine builder, at least for your short block.
I took my STI up to ORP Sunday for it's break in. 12lbs of boost and 5500 rpm ecu redline. 3 hours of actual time on track, about 180 miles. The main problem was my new Auto-Blip caused a CEL and Limp mode for Throttle Position Sensor Voltage. After two of those I pulled the wires off the accelerator peddle sensor and everything was fine. Well almost fine, my rebuilt Aviaid dry sump pump is leaking drops out the rear inspection plate. So that needs to be addressed but is no big deal.
I don't understand why I can run a fully sealed system with no issues on the seals, and yours is fully vented and blowing oil!
If I can't get back on the Surgeline dyno this week I'm still going to race it Saturday in the Mini-Enduro. Even at 5500 rpm and 12 lbs it's got 270 HP, enought to run the race and get some points towards the Championship. The main thing is to get back in the game, not whether I win the race.

[DanielsDM]

Retro, Man that has to be frustrating. How did your car catch such a nasty case of the gremlins? Hope it gets well soon.

Gator, Auto-Blip? Tell me more.

[Sgt.Gator]

Gator, Auto-Blip? Tell me more.

https://www.auto-blip.com/

Soon I hope to iron out the bug and be able to give a recommendation. I will say the owner responded immediately to my email about the issue.

[RetroRacing]

Until I get it back to the shop, we don't know for sure. I'm hoping it's gear oil from a loose/failed fitting, or oil from somewhere else. I'm also thinking I might want to speed up the scavenge pump to increase the vacuum. What pulley sizes are you using Gator?

[Sgt.Gator]

Until I get it back to the shop, we don't know for sure. I'm hoping it's gear oil from a loose/failed fitting, or oil from somewhere else. I'm also thinking I might want to speed up the scavenge pump to increase the vacuum. What pulley sizes are you using Gator?

5.5" on the DS pump. However that's because I slow down the DS pump, not speed it up. The typical DS pump runs at 1/2 crank speed. But on the DS systems most of us are using they run at 150% crank speed because the DS pulley is so much smaller than the crank pulley. John @ Aviaid says it's not necessary to slow it down, but I do anyway. It's bit controversial to slow it down (see the DS thread in the R forum where it's discussed a LOT). All I know is that Rob (Chad's old car) and I both got better results using a smaller than standard crank pulley (OBX is the only one I know of now) and larger DS pulley. On the STI I use a full size Fluidamper crank pulley so I had to go as large as possible on the DS pulley, hence the 5.5".

[Zach34]

These oil issues have me biting my nails as I've yet to even start my engine.

Retro, what size oil pump are you using, again?

Gator, what size oil pump do you have on your STI? Were bearing clearances altered from stock?

[C.Plavan]

That sucks. I feel your pain!

[Sgt.Gator]

These oil issues have me biting my nails as I've yet to even start my engine.

Retro, what size oil pump are you using, again?

Gator, what size oil pump do you have on your STI? Were bearing clearances altered from stock?

I'm running a race built Rallispec block, so yes they are quite different. It has the 12mm JDM oil pump.

[RetroRacing]

We have a blueprinted 11mm pump in there right now, 90psi oil pressure at all times (up to 4k so far that is). I'll know more this weekend.
We are using the Perrin front pulley, don't know if it's smaller than stock, but good point.

[Zach34]

Well I suppose no sense in jumping down rabbit holes until Retro has gotten a chance to have a good look over his situation, but in the interest of finding a solution that is working:

Gator, on your STI you're running a scavenge-only dry sump, turning what, about 1:1 with the 5.5" pulley and the large Fluidamper crank pulley? That's with a big 12mm pressure pump on a prepped motor that's 100% sealed (no crankcase vent/pcv/vacuum regulator?). Please correct me if I'm wrong. And that's been working well? Do you know how much your bearing clearances were altered?

[Sgt.Gator]

Gator, on your STI you're running a scavenge-only dry sump, turning what, about 1:1 with the 5.5" pulley and the large Fluidamper crank pulley? That's with a big 12mm pressure pump on a prepped motor that's 100% sealed (no crankcase vent/pcv/vacuum regulator?). Please correct me if I'm wrong. And that's been working well? Do you know how much your bearing clearances were altered?

Zach here's the history: I first did a dry sump in my Subaru LGT race wagon pretty much at the same time as Chad did his 818. We both started with the Element Tuning kit which uses an Aviaid scavenge only pump running off the crank pulley A/C ring with a serp belt. I tried both sealed and vented, I liked sealed better. That car started with the Element parts of using the oem crank pulley and a 4" ( or maybe 4.5" DS pulley). When Chad and I both had problems with the oil getting too hot I did a lot of research and decided that every other dry sump system in the word spins the DS pump at less than crank speed, usually a lot less, because they almost all use a small mandrel driving a cogged belt. I switched my oem 5.5" crank pulley for an undersized OBX 4.3" crank pulley. (OBX makes two sizes, be careful if you go this route, it's not always clear which one you are buying). I also got a larger DS pulley. I put a vacuum gauge on my crossover tubes because the Internet Wisdom was that it's impossible to get any scavenge vacuum with just two stages on a Subaru. The internet wisdom was wrong. All this is documented in this thread to nth degree: https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?15502-Oil-issues-Dry-Sump-Accusump-for-road-racing

The LGT blew the motor when the timing belt tensioner came loose (Gates now puts a bottle of Loctite in the timing belt kit and warns this can happen if you don't use it).

The STI: I bought a Cosworth DS system the first time around with it. The Cosworth is a sealed system, except they include a vacuum regulator on the former oil fill hole in the driver's side head. Note this is in case it pulls TOO MUCH vacuum, it's not a pressure relief valve, it's a vacuum relief valve. The Cosworth system is very much like the Element Tuning/Aviaid system in that it's a two stage scavenge only utilizing the factory oil pump for engine oil pressure. The big difference is that it uses a drive mandrel and cogged belt that drives the DS pump at about 1/2 crank speed. I never put a vacuum gauge on the crossover so I don't know how much vacuum it pulled. But like my LGT, it's sealed with no vent line to the DS tank.

The STI overheated last summer at the Rose Cup races and toasted the engine. It was a cooling failure, not an oil issue. Unfortunately the failure ran debris thru the Cosworth pump, damaging it, which was only discovered recently so now I need to get it rebuilt. In the meantime I have installed an Aviaid pump. So far it seems to be working fine but I've only just got it broken in. It uses the serp belt off the Fluidamper crank pulley (almost same size as oem) and a 5.5" Jones Racing DS pulley with a Trantorque Fenner bushing securing the pulley to the pump shaft. Yes, it should be very slightly less than 1:1. The Fluidamper pulley is 5.375". It still has the vacuum relief valve in the former oil fill hole. It's back at Surgeline tonight to get a race tune for this weekend's racing at Portland International. I don't have a vacuum gauge installed yet but it's here and will go on next week.
I don't know what the bearing clearances are on the STI.

The 818R I'm redoing will have an Aviaid pump, pan, and tank. It will be sealed but have a vacuum relief valve. When I install it I will document it in my build thread.

Hope this answers your questions!

[RetroRacing]

We ran the first stock motor sealed, with a vacuum relief valve, and had no issues, with the stock elements set up, and yes we pulled vacuum.

WHat we have here, I do not know. Could be just be blow by from the new unseated rings, but with the vacuum of the DS pump, and the dash 12 venting from 3 points on the engine (block, and two heads) I am pretty sure there must just be an issue from somewhere else. If the boys would just stop making changes to their EP cars so that I could get the thing back in the shop.........

[Mitch Wright]

I would be really suspect if you are getting that much blow-by and crank case pressure on a new engine/new rings/new pistons.

[Zach34]

Gator, thanks for the synopsis. I've followed your threads, but forgot some of the details. I'm going to have to set aside a few hours to go back and consolidate what you guys have learned. Very interested to see how much vacuum you are pulling on the STI. How much did you pull on the LGT?

I made an adapter for the Cosworth-style vacuum regulator setup using the same Peterson regulator. When Retro first said he was still getting crankcase pressure, not vacuum, with his DS setup I thought I may have wasted my time making the adapter. Perhaps not... I don't have any other dry sump parts yet. Hopefully that comes later this summer.

85384

[Sgt.Gator]

"Gator, thanks for the synopsis. I've followed your threads, but forgot some of the details. I'm going to have to set aside a few hours to go back and consolidate what you guys have learned. Very interested to see how much vacuum you are pulling on the STI. How much did you pull on the LGT?"

It would max about 14" of vacuum around 2,100 RPM, 12" at 3,500 RPM, then fall to 6"-8" near redline.
See: https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?15502-Oil-issues-Dry-Sump-Accusump-for-road-racing&p=208059&viewfull=1#post208059

[RetroRacing]

So, we have no idea where the oil came from. It seems like some might be gear oil (found a loose fitting on the return line for the cooler) but most is just oil, running down the left head. We think it might be the block off plate for the oil filler, but won't know for sure until tonight when I remove it to inspect. The engine builder made his own flat plate, when ours was a modification of the stock one which retained the o-ring portion of the filler as part of the vacuum bleeder we were using with a sealed block.

We are going to cross our fingers and go for another test this Friday.

[Frank818]

So was it the oil from block off plate oil filler?

How did that yet another test go on Friday 18th?

[RetroRacing]

Same problem yet again. there must be a leak in the rear main or cover plate for the factory oil separator. Only got in one session, 30 minutes, 6k rpm. concerned with the tune, ran it with the old tune in it yet we put in new cams, water temp on long pull shot up to 200, then back down to 185 in less than two corners. wondering if the return water from the turbo is to close to the water temp sensor or if it's the tune in the car. Car did handle perfectly, and was quick even at 6k with 7psi of boost.
Plan is, builder is coming up tomorrow to take a look. If we cant find it, we put in secondary engine, tune it on the dyno using the 'run the #$it method of break in, and take it to the track next-next weekend.
We did have a great time with Gator at the track though!!! He has an awesome STI, I'll let him tell you the story. Really fun time even with oil covering the engine of our car.

[Sgt.Gator]

Same problem yet again. there must be a leak in the rear main or cover plate for the factory oil separator. Only got in one session, 30 minutes, 6k rpm. concerned with the tune, ran it with the old tune in it yet we put in new cams, water temp on long pull shot up to 200, then back down to 185 in less than two corners. wondering if the return water from the turbo is to close to the water temp sensor or if it's the tune in the car. Car did handle perfectly, and was quick even at 6k with 7psi of boost.
Plan is, builder is coming up tomorrow to take a look. If we cant find it, we put in secondary engine, tune it on the dyno using the 'run the #$it method of break in, and take it to the track next-next weekend.
We did have a great time with Gator at the track though!!! He has an awesome STI, I'll let him tell you the story. Really fun time even with oil covering the engine of our car.

It was really disappointing not to have the 818 in the races on Saturday. I took the opportunity to invite Jeff to Co-Drive my STI in the Enduro. It wasn't so much because I felt bad for his team over the 818, but rather I wanted to put the Enduro Man in my STI and grab the data/video on my Vbox to see what I could learn from Master Yoda. Probably most people on this board don't know that Jeff is a very accomplished racer in both sprint and endurance racing with multiple Championships in his RX-7s and other cars.

I started the race in my 2005 STI. Because I qualified with no boost, (another story entirely!) I was mid pack in the grid. The first few laps were fun working thru the faster qualifying cars now that I have boost! I quickly found myself in second place behind a Spec E46 BMW that was really fast. He must have been running a non-Spec E46 tune for the Enduro (which is legal if he is in the ME0 class) because even on the long front straight he was pulling away from me. My half of the enduro came to an end with us in a solid second place in class and overall.

Jeff swapped in and started cranking consistent fast laps. As in just a couple of tenths separated his laps, over and over. I was amazed considering he had never driven the car before, not even one lap in practice. He is a machine, he had numerous laps within hundredths of a second, a fast lap consistency I can't come close to.

About 3/4 of the way thru the race we no longer saw the BMW going by. A grid worker reported that he had pulled off the track and was in the paddock. That put us in first, sweet.

Jeff finished out the race, but not before a fool in a Pro3 BMW almost ran him into the wall on the front straight. We all saw it happen, there wasn't a gnat's hair between the passenger door handle of the Blue Sake Bomber and the wall. That one was a close call.

Jeff took the Checkered Flag in overall first place, a very rare occurrence for the Blue Sake Bomber!

As I type this I'm looking at The Video Vbox data and video. There's places where he is faster than me, and where I'm faster than him. But unlike me, he has consistently fast laps. Because he's so consistently fast he would have kicked my booty if we were racing each other.
In the end his best lap was a 1:34.06 and mine was a 1:33.81. Now looking at where he's faster I could shave off another 1/2 second, maybe one second.....the Vbox is amazing for finding that kind of data. I know exactly where I need to be faster and why, and he knows where he can be faster. So he learned a little, and I learned a lot! Now I just have to get the consistently fast part down....
A big thanks to the Retro Racing Team for a great weekend!
I'll try to post up the videos by late next week.
But in the meantime we have this!

https://xitmtq.by.files.1drv.com/y4moDlq4pfuEBFAwNx1p5YVReF3teb7_cVJekwkFIt8-RvoIcACMWaRLDvjFXpQcSi048fXZL7zr7sk_PSVUXOfIp45exw VhbaIYZpwMhH0adkxTLtgnnGYzNSRYatu6FYxcHnanj9QgOmGf 2Z4iW-VEGdWULObVUlJRv10IgujaSo2klh66wCZ-PX5W5MB8i0x_OzhpVUlNIB0A9uPgIJyGA?width=1024&height=859&cropmode=none

In the grid on Sunday for the ST race:

https://u4rnkg.by.files.1drv.com/y4m8oWGqm5UJb8ESwjmCVnhDjoQaICyQLb9ljt3Hk_g2hR7kHO k_ANL2uCeN7_F0q2A2CLt8r5zpDMxPPkYmxN_rvCnPM29UuMB0 GHmzePv2uoeqSk6Yy50Apjm0NLryQjI5rmwnpKt48u2NSN9kb_ ZpSgKZvicRwjVu2V8I4p5bcfIAw_ZV52LDklAXsREYm77d_GKa SuZdFCwgKBfSuRBNA?width=1024&height=428&cropmode=none

[Mitch Wright]

Congratulations

[Wayne Presley]

Great job!!

[Sgt.Gator]

Thanks Mitch and Wayne. Someday we should all meet at NCM, COTA, or Road America for a 818 only race!

[Mitch Wright]

I know someone that could make that happen if we had enough interest.

[Wayne Presley]

I can borrow FFR's 818R and the 818R that I drove at VIR last weekend would come

[RetroRacing]

Would love to once we get her sorted!!

[Rob T]

I could make NCM in 2020....

[RetroRacing]

Sooooo......
Rear main again. different block, new seal, new crank, dash 10 lines from heads and dash 12 from block all tied together to a manifold that is vented to the DS tank. 7psi of boost.
Calling Elements today to see if they have any ideas, leak down scheduled for Saturday, then to the dyno for tune at 14psi and a leak test. I'm out of ideas at this point.

[Sgt.Gator]

Crazy. Can you attach pics of your lines where they attach to the valve covers and the block? Or are they already in this thread?
I should have spent some time in your trailer last weekend going over your engine.....

[RetroRacing]

We installed the dash 10 lines in the stock position on the heads, the dash 12 in place of the EGR valve. I'm wondering if the ds pump is falling behind the engine oil pump, but that would mean a pooched ds pump, and there is no play in the ds pump shaft.

[Sgt.Gator]

We installed the dash 10 lines in the stock position on the heads, the dash 12 in place of the EGR valve. I'm wondering if the ds pump is falling behind the engine oil pump, but that would mean a pooched ds pump, and there is no play in the ds pump shaft.

There's two vents on each valve cover. Do you have the rear vents connected to the block? What are the front vents doing?

[RetroRacing]

Version 5 engines only have the one vent on the rear of the valve cover (non avcs engine). They all come together (block, valve cover, valve cover) to a manifold that vents to the DS tank.
I'm now wondering if there is an issue with the DS pump being pooched to the point that if can't keep up with the feed pump at speed. I have an email into Elements.

[Sgt.Gator]

Version 5 engines only have the one vent on the rear of the valve cover (non avcs engine). They all come together (block, valve cover, valve cover) to a manifold that vents to the DS tank.
I'm now wondering if there is an issue with the DS pump being pooched to the point that if can't keep up with the feed pump at speed. I have an email into Elements.

I have two DS pumps I can bring to PIR!

[RetroRacing]

So, the issue turned out to be a torn seal in the front of the trans. Fixed, and on track last Friday. Chased other leaks all day, but got some good data only to lose the engine on Saturday on the second lap of the 1 hour race, leading in class and pulling away.....Not sure what happened yet, but not good. Engine builder called and we are hoping to get it sorted soon, but in the mean time, we our backup 2L should be ready this week for install and tune by next Thursday, when we are supposed to be leaving for Spokane.

car was fast, but needs sorting in the handling department, going to throw a little more wing into it to try to get some more bite

[Canadian818]

Sorry to hear about the engine, that’s some bad luck. And they say the rotary is unreliable, haha.

[RetroRacing]

Lost one of those on track this weekend as well, had to change it out at the track without an engine pick....I hurt.

[Mitch Wright]

Once you feel you have a good baseline try a front bar. Helped the rear mechanical grip and drivability.

[RetroRacing]

will do, thanks!

[RetroRacing]

So, the 2l is in the car and running, after mixing up some ignition wires.....
Dropped it at the dyno this morning for a quick breakin and a tune at 18psi, 7800rpm rev limit. Hope to see similar numbers to our 2.3l stroker at 14psi. That engine is being fixed now by the original builder, NorthWest Rallysport, who has been great at stepping up and fixing it. Off to the Ridge for two test days Friday and Saturday, assuming everything tunes properly....

[RetroRacing]

Ya, no, that didn't go well. there is an electrical gremlin somewhere, so spending the weekend chasing electrons instead of lap times. Kill. Me. Now.

[Sgt.Gator]

Dang! Hope you find it soon.

[RetroRacing]

so, we pulled the 2l and re-installed our primary 2.3l. Dyno break-in went well, so we are taking to the track next weekend for a test. Once we have a few weekends on it, we will up the boost to 18psi, hoping to see 350 at the wheels, which will put our power to weight ratio right up there with the ALMS crowd. Just need to keep it running......

[Sgt.Gator]

Did you smash the electrical Gremlins?

[RetroRacing]

Yup, then it failed.
Back to the builder it goes.....
2.3l seams fine, broke it in on the dyno and have it up to 13psi, 299hp@5700rpm, 309ft/lbs at 4700, both measured at the wheels. Turbo wont push any more than 13psi, we need to change out the waste gate or install the pill, but are looking for input on the pill thing, because i'm at a loss as to how that works with the 3-port boost controller from our Haltech. THoughts?

[ssssly]

Even with a haltech I would imagine that the line restrictor is desirable, if not necessary, to increase the line pressure to where you want.

Unless you are running a hybrid manual/electric boost control system.

[RetroRacing]

screwed again. Blew the head gasket at 13psi, 6900rpm, with temps all below 180, oil pressure never under 65. Builder says it must be our set up. Taking it elsewhere for evaluation.

This one almost cost us the car. Oil/water got on the rear tire in a 100mph corner with a berm on both sides (turn 6 at Pacific), spun 180 but kept it on track with some intuitive driving. Stacked my pants, but no other damage.

again, we are done this year for the 25 in this car. Hoping to make the last ridge race for test prior to the 6 hour enduro at PIR. Going to have the new shop dyno test for 2 hours of simulated racing (fans and coolers everywhere) prior to getting it back.

[Mitch Wright]

Sorry to hear the bad news, that sucks. It sounds to me like a new engine builder and tuner may need consideration.

[Wayne Presley]

Could you send me the tune file and I'll see if anything jumps out.
wayne.verycoolparts@gmail.com

[RetroRacing]

will do, thanks!
History:
Builder installed the engine with a plug left in the lower water line, resulting in the failure seen in the pictures. They then replaced the block and machined the damaged head, to the point that they had to install a thicker head gasket on one side to make up the difference.
8935189352

[RetroRacing]

and
8935389354

[Wayne Presley]

Uh, WTH was the builder thinking? I still want to see the tune

[Zach34]

Your determination is inspiring. I can only imagine the frustration level with almost crashing due to this engine. Starting over with new block/heads for the 2-hour dyno test?

[RetroRacing]

We need to see what we have, but maybe....
Wish I had the save on video, I think the aero helped

[Sgt.Gator]

Is the THill 25 a definite no go for this year?

[RetroRacing]

We are officially done with the Subi engines, seems no one can build one without messing it up somehow. Time to go with something we can do ourselves, so new engine package development will be starting up in two weeks time. Anyone want to guess (no Gator, not you....) what it might be? Still looking for 400hp, reliable, upy downy engine this time. The plan is to adapt mounts, not cut up anything.

We will get this thing working!

[Hobby Racer]

^^ Honda motor, Honda motor, Honda motor, Honda motor...

Just wishful thinking. I was seriously considering a KA24 setup and would like to see one completed.

[Brad Smith]

We are officially done with the Subi engines, seems no one can build one without messing it up somehow.

Any leftovers for sale?

[Frank818]

We are officially done with the Subi engines,

Sorry to hear it doesn't work with the Subie engine, I know you've put A LOT of time and efforts into it!! And I know how that feels.



so new engine package development will be starting up in two weeks time. Anyone want to guess (no Gator, not you....) what it might be?


VR6 Turbo? :) Please do not attempt that, unless you have another 2 years of free time and free money to spend.
I'm sure that's not the one, the VR6 requires cutting the FFR engine mounts to the bare metal tube.


We will get this thing working!

I see you are as determined as I am, "fail" is not a word in our dictionary. Keep it coming!

[Canadian818]

Obviously a 13b-rew! :)

[Wayne Presley]

Turbine?

[EODTech87]

Hartley V8???

http://www.h1v8.com/f/H1_MAXI_V8_design_specs.PDF

[Zach34]

I've been wondering if the writing has been on the wall for these motors. I have yet to run mine.

Mazda, Porsche?

Honestly, if it were me I would start getting measurements for an LS1...

[Sgt.Gator]

I'm not ready to throw in the towel yet...Saturday Retro will have his new drivetrain (not in an 818) in the 2-4-8 hour Enduro and I'll have my STI in the 2 and 4 hour Enduros. It should be some fun racing!

[Mitch Wright]

Really sorry to hear about the engine issues, really sucks. For those running EJ engines there are some of us that are happy with our cars. Rob T has a really strong running engine (300+ hp) with a mild tune he had built in LA. Mine has been running great for 2.5 seasons (285whp)

[Sgt.Gator]

Retro just needs a better builder, like the guys who run in the BTCC!
http://images.pistonheads.com/nimg/34611/team_bmr_017.jpg

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=23&t=1608962

However they did order up 12 engines.....

http://images.pistonheads.com/nimg/34611/BMR_Subaru_031-L.jpg

They use a wet sump + Accusump, or atleast they did in 2016. I don't know what they have for the 2018 season:

Specs Here: http://www.teambmr.co.uk/btcc-subaru-levorg-gt-team-bmr

But keep in mind the BTCC cars don't pull the Gs our 818Rs can. They weigh 2800lbs and run on 10" wide wheels. Also the downforce is a lot less than Retro has going.

[C.Plavan]

Hybrid 2.3L Ecoboost motor...... (2.0L Case, 2.3L cranks and bits).

https://adamtuned.myshopify.com/pages/crate-engines

[Hobby Racer]

Any news on the uppy-downy engine replacement?

[Frank818]

Yeah plz some news, it's been months. :(

[RetroRacing]

Sorry, been busy finishing the Kmiata and cutting up our 818. We will have some pics soon, but let me tell you, it's tight! Due to the fact we could not get the integral dry sump kit for another year, we had to go traditional, which meant we had to move some steel, and box the fire wall around the DS drives. Changing a belt will mean removing the engine, but considering if we lose a belt, we lose the engine, kinda not a big deal.
The delay is in receiving parts, we have had the engine and mounts ready to go for months now. We decided to use our VF turbo, so we had to make an adapter....hope you all like it when you see it, our exhaust valve to turbo distance is only 8".....

If we have issues with the turbo version of this setup, we will probably cut bait and go NA with a stroked K27, which we know we can just buy and have 400 crank hp for about what we spent on our last EJ2.3 stroker. The turbo version of the stock K24 should have over 350whp at 8psi.

[Mitch Wright]

Looking forward to seeing the progress.

[Sgt.Gator]

If we have issues with the turbo version of this setup, we will probably cut bait and go NA with a stroked K27, which we know we can just buy and have 400 crank hp for about what we spent on our last EJ2.3 stroker. The turbo version of the stock K24 should have over 350whp at 8psi.

OMG, if you can make it last for 25 hours!
https://honda-tech.com/articles/insane-2-7l-k24-race-engine-at-pri/

https://i1.wp.com/honda-tech.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/kengine8_1_2.jpg?w=800&ssl=1

[Hobby Racer]

The turbo version of the stock K24 should have over 350whp at 8psi.

Did I miss the announcement? Sounds like you are going with a stock Honda K24 with a turbo?

[RetroRacing]

Yup, stock with turbo. The adapter will be here this week, so it's fittin time! Yes, we could go down the 400hp N/A route, but considering we have a few VF28's already tricked out, seemed to be the way to go. So far, we had to clock the turbo onto it's side with a manifold adapter so we will see how that fits....valve springs, timing chain kit and dry sump is all we are doing to start out with.

[RetroRacing]

We want to make some room in the shop, so here is what we have.
EJ207 ver 5 RA
Cosworth pistons, Mahle rods, new stock crank, new rings, water pump mod, new oil pump, new timing belt, no turbo, ceramic coated Perrin up pipe with blanket, Coated Perrin EL header, remote filter boss (10an), stock RA cams and heads, dash 10 head vents, DS oil pan (-12 fittings), 750cc injectors, dash 6 fuel rails,
This engine ate new bearings after 10min on the dyno, but did pull 285whp at the wheels at 12psi

EJ207, ver 5 RA stroked to 2.3l
OMG pistons and rods, stage 2 cams and valve springs, RA heads (ported), billet dry sump pan (-12 fittings), no turbo, new stainless Perrin up-pipe, no header, new timing belt (less than 3 hours) water pump mod, high volume oil pump (either 12mm Cosworth or 11mm blueprinted) king racing bearings
This engine blew a head gasket after a bad fix by the engine builder. Needs to be torn down and cleaned, then put back together. This engine pulled 310whp at 10psi.

We also have the full wiring harness to Racepak ECU, including boost control module for one engine. This harness is literally, plug and play. WE can include the IQ3 display as well, with the separate data logging module. We also have some spares (new and used) that we haven’t inventoried.

[Blu]

We also have the full wiring harness to Racepak ECU, including boost control module for one engine. This harness is literally, plug and play. WE can include the IQ3 display as well, with the separate data logging module. We also have some spares (new and used) that we haven’t inventoried.

PM Sent

[Scargo]

What do you mean by "OMG, if you can make it last for 25 hours!" Is that all some/most are getting out of an EJ25*?
Perhaps I'm misunderstanding the context but I've got 40 hours on my EJ257 with 470 AWD HP (Mustang dyno) in my STi track car and I take it regularly to 7,500~8K. I'm going to run it a while longer!
Of course I also have Subie track buddies who have fared far worse and got less or much less than 25.

[STiPWRD]

What do you mean by "OMG, if you can make it last for 25 hours!" Is that all some/most are getting out of an EJ25*?
Perhaps I'm misunderstanding the context but I've got 40 hours on my EJ257 with 470 AWD HP (Mustang dyno) in my STi track car and I take it regularly to 7,500~8K. I'm going to run it a while longer!
Of course I also have Subie track buddies who have fared far worse and got less or much less than 25.

25 hours of thunderhill?

[Sgt.Gator]

Scargo, yes you missed the context of my comment, Retro's car is built to win the 25 Hours of Thunderhill.

[Frank818]

Thunderhill... I prefer that to "Thunder Hollow"! (some may not make the connection here, like Retro did with his new engine I'll let you guys guess what I meant loll)


Retro! What is tight exactly in the engine bay, which areas?

[RetroRacing]

will send pics next week, we are fitting it on Saturday for real. BTW, forgot to mention, we have the dry sump system (less the tank) as part of our liquidation of everything Subaru engine wise.

[Frank818]

I hope the fitting went well and a lot easier than mine! :)
Can't wait for those pix to show up... pretty sure I'm not the only one. :)