Educating Cobra Buyers?

[mrmustang]

For those that are less than knowledgeable, should we be able to educate them without worrying about what that education will do to future sales and/or the bubble of future values based on those sales to the less than knowledgeable potential buyer(s)?

For those that came here to the Cobra forum as the less than knowledgeable, and were educated before you made your purchase, would you not want the same knowledge passed on to the future potential buyer(s)?

Then again, should the question of value ever come in to the subject of educating prospective buyers?

Respectively submitted,


Bill S.

[edwardb]

I posted this to the same question over on the other forum. Will copy here FWIW. I've been pretty active on the forums for six plus years. Not nearly as long as many, but long enough to have seen about everything. I started with general car knowledge, but very little general knowledge of the replica industry and Factory Five specifically. I've learned a lot through two builds, including buying both and selling one of them. About to start my third build. So my specific comments, based on the above, are the following:

- Discussing values for these cars, how to write a good ad, what adds value, what doesn't, etc. is all positive. People, especially those new to this, should have the right expectations. No question many start down this path thinking it's going to be some type of investment, or their labor hours have value at the time of a sale, etc. They need to be realistic about this. For the record (and I know I'm preaching to the choir) this is not unique to our replica builds. It's typical with all hobby/performance car builds. Rarely can the actual cost be recouped. Unless your name is Chip Foose (and maybe some others) you're probably going to take a beating when you sell. Just the way it is. Having said that, based on what I've seen, these do better than most.

- People also need to be realistic about their budgets and how much these things cost. So discussing values in the right way is a good thing. Factory Five IMO has an excellent value proposition for getting into this replica hobby. But it's not cheap and it's not for everyone. We can help with this by being realistic, but also as supportive as possible. For many, me included, this was a long realized dream.

- What's not cool is bad-mouthing or making negative comments in someone's forum for sale listing. Unless the OP is asking for feedback, leave it alone or if you really have to, send the OP a private message. The market will dictate what the actual value is.

- What I especially don't like is when external for sale ads are linked (Craigslist, eBay, etc.) and the negative comments and critique about the build come rolling in. Sometimes turns into a feeding frenzy like sharks with blood in the water. Sorry guys, but it comes off as incredibly arrogant and elitist. It's just unseemly of our otherwise pretty friendly and supportive community. I will sometimes comment in threads like that, but generally I just don't read them. I'm fully aware that reading is optional.

- In general, I doubt threads like in the prior two points ultimately affect our resale values. But at the same time I don't see the point of talking down values. I guess it depends on if you're buying or selling. ;)

- My final point is numerous comments about cheaper to buy already built than building yourself. The premise is generally true (see first comment above) but I don't think it's a complete picture. It's very difficult to look at a few pictures and read a list of parts and judge the value. The quality of the build potentially makes a big difference, and usually this needs to be determined by a personal visit or personal knowledge of the build. I've seen both sides. Guys buy an already built car and it's a great value. But also guys buy what they think is a great value and end up practically rebuilding because of various issues. Some downright scary. General "cheaper to buy than to build" statements with values cited are a little risky IMO.

It's not a simple subject, but those are my thoughts.

[skullandbones]

Hi Bill,

I believe the education aspect of this forum is important even if people tend to have camps of beliefs as to the nature of quality. It burns me a little when I see adds about how a roadster is a "quality build" because it was done at a shop or by someone of note. In many cases, the quality of the build is more about the paint job than the through and through high quality of the build (beauty skin deep). Then, again, sometimes the build is as good as the paint job (disclaimer). So I feel more for the buyer of a car like this as it really depends on the faith in the builder so buyer beware is appropriate and necessary. I guess the quality can very from unsafe and badly executed to near perfect like something Chip Foose would produce.

Translating the quality to value is like when you sell a house. It may be a wonderful value on a great piece of land (location, location, location). But often it requires neutral paint, staging, or other superficial and cosmetic fixes to give it the best curb appeal and potential to get that great asking price. My advice for a buy is to have an experienced car kit builder to help them evaluate the potential buy. If they have time, they can spend years on this forum but many don't have the interest to do that. The car that may have a rather plain paint job might be the best value or the car with the best paint may be a dog mechanically.

I'm glad to see the value based on real sales improving on the FFR roadsters as an example with Barrett Jackson this year. I don't think the value of the building of an FFR car has gone down. I know prices have gone up a bit but compared to other things, it still seems to be a great value. I would buy again with things the way the are now. I have a friend who bought a MKIII roadster several years ago. He has done very little to it but drive and he loves it. I will be changing mine forever and I love mine too (which ever iteration it is in at the time). So the question of value is an important one but also very complicated and should be discussed on the forum IMO.

Thanks,

WEK.

[Gumball]

For those that are less than knowledgeable, should we be able to educate them without worrying about what that education will do to future sales and/or the bubble of future values based on those sales to the less than knowledgeable potential buyer(s)?

For those that came here to the Cobra forum as the less than knowledgeable, and were educated before you made your purchase, would you not want the same knowledge passed on to the future potential buyer(s)?

Then again, should the question of value ever come in to the subject of educating prospective buyers?

Respectively submitted,


Bill S.

Bill - Very interesting questions... with not just a hint of moral implication.

I'm reminded of the post that occasionally gets resurrected about the nature of a Cobra replica. While that's an entertaining piece of reading, it also gives the uninitiated a better understanding of what to expect from one of these cars. And, while that may scare off some potential buyers, I don't think an open and public discussion of the sometimes lethal nature of these cars has an adverse impact on value. It could even be argued that in some ways, it's a driver of value in that the mystique of harnessing the power of a Cobra is part of the allure. That said, if I were to ever contemplate selling my car and was approached by someone who wants one but who has never driven or even ridden in one, I would feel compelled to give them a primer on just what they'd be getting into before they plunk down their money. As we are often reminded, some people are better off with production cars... like a Corvette.

[Al_C]

Bill, I'm curious what led to your post. As for me, I got involved in this community and forum in order to learn, so the information I've obtained has been invaluable. When I got involved a year ago, I fell into the "less than knowledgeable" category. To me, an educated consumer/participant will have a much better perspective on value (which is inherently subjective).

So, to answer your questions, "yes", "yes", and "they'll figure that out on their own". Just my 2 cents.

[mrmustang]

Bill, I'm curious what led to your post. As for me, I got involved in this community and forum in order to learn, so the information I've obtained has been invaluable. When I got involved a year ago, I fell into the "less than knowledgeable" category. To me, an educated consumer/participant will have a much better perspective on value (which is inherently subjective).

So, to answer your questions, "yes", "yes", and "they'll figure that out on their own". Just my 2 cents.

Al,
Someone else asked me the same question, so instead of retyping it, I'll cut and paste my response here:

My original post was more to determine whether we as a group of now educated cobra buyers should educate someone just learning about them in regards to what to look for, or what to watch out for. On another forum I had an admin belittle me (his post now removed/deleted, but archived on the web for future reference) because I offered an opinion on a car I felt was overpriced for what it was. He pretty much told me that I am single handily bringing down the resale market with my comments/opinion.

As such, I started this thread on all three of the larger Cobra forums to get others opinions as to whether it is ethical for me/us to educate a potential buyer as to what is or what is not a good deal.

Bill S.