Maiden voyage. Now have questions

[michael everson]

Ok my maiden voyage wen only OK. I have some questions and concerns.

1. Where can I get better motor mounts? The drivetrain moves a LOT. I can here something hitting the frame when I accelerate. Even at idle when you give it some gas it moves.

2. the car overheats to the red line in the first mile of driving. I think I have all the air out but not sure. It will idle in the driveway for hours and the needle stays right in the middle. Any thoughts?

3. the throttle is very touchy. Anyone else experience this? Maybe it had to do with the engine moving?

4. I think some of the rear suspension is hitting the wheel wells. I will need to trim.

Other than that it went ok. Any help on these issues would be appreciated.
Thanks Mike

[mikeb75]

Hi Mike,

1) I use Torque Solution engine and transmission mounts. No problems with engine movement at all. You can also use group-N engine mounts that are more complaint than the TS but less than the OEM ones. I'm pretty sure you can also get Perrin or Cusco engine/transmission mounts (for extra money)

3) DBW or Throttle Cable? I have cable throttle and it's very touchy also, but that is most likely a function of the lack of tune for my engine & the oversized injectors or lighter flywheel. Are you running stock injectors or have you changed them (same for flywheel) and have you had a tune to smooth that out?

[Hindsight]

Get a vacuum coolant filler from Amazon to properly fill your coolant system with no air pockets.

Motor Mounts - Mike B suggested good ones, but Cusco makes what appears to me to be the exact same thing yet they are much cheaper.

[twgab]

As far as the motor mounts, you can get them on Ebay, or any of the performance Subaru parts dealers. I have urethane motor mounts in mine, and like them a lot, very little engine movement.
It's odd that it would over heat while driving, and not at idle. If you used an earlier model than an 06 for a donor, you can take off the top coolant line going to the air/idle control valve to bleed any air that might be in the system still. I had trouble with mine overheating until I did that.
My throttle is a little touchy as well, but I think that's mostly due to the car being so light. I don't think engine movement would do much due to the throttle cable being attached to the manifold.

Hope this helps.

[Buzz Skyline]

I like Group N motor mounts. They're available from just about every company that sells Subie performance parts. I use Rally Sport Direct, but you can probably pick them up cheaper off of Amazon or Ebay.

Regarding the overheating, if you haven't used Wayne's coolant system mod, you should. In fact, I hope they add it to the manual. I will post a link if I can find it.

Regarding the clearance in back, I found that the flange where the rear bumper attached to the side sails intruded way too far into the wheel well. the tire would hit it over every bump. I trimmed it a bit, and it's all clear now. Same with the flanges in the wheel well where the front bumper attaches too.

[D Clary]

42575 I have group n mounts and I added a torque strut to the rear of the transaxle

[wallace18]

Mike is your fans coming on when it overheats? The 2 I built ran very cool running anywhere. Sounds like a fan problem. Make sure they are running in the correct direction. I used new stock mounts and had no problems. But I am sure HD units would be a great upgrade.

[michael everson]

To answer a few questions. My donor is a 02 WRX Cooling system consists of a aluminum radiator, cooling tubes, twin fans in s shroud. I tried jumping the fans so they run all the time and the result was the same. I have a radiator cap at both the front and the back of car. If I jack up the front, I can see the coolant running through the pipe. I know its circulating. I wonder if its more of an electrical glitch rather than actually overheating. I may try an aftermarket gauge and see what happens.

I will look into the aftermarket motor mounts.

I am running mostly a stock drivetrain. Only changed the air intake.
Mike

[michael everson]

Hindsight. Which coolant kit did you buy?
Mike

[Hindsight]

I don't actually have one myself but know a couple people who do. They completely guarantee you have no air pockets in the system and they also double as a leak-check device.

This is what I'm going to buy when I get far enough in the build to need it:
http://www.amazon.com/Airlift-Cooling-System-Service-Tool/dp/B000O3IGI6

They have nicer ones that are all metal instead of plastic body but they all work the same (like this one: http://www.amazon.com/UView-550000-Airlift-Cooling-Checker/dp/B0002SRH5G)

[mrprgrmr]

Congratulations on the registration! This gives me hope that I will be able to get mine through when the time comes.

[metalmaker12]

Ok my maiden voyage wen only OK. I have some questions and concerns.

1. Where can I get better motor mounts? The drivetrain moves a LOT. I can here something hitting the frame when I accelerate. Even at idle when you give it some gas it moves.

2. The car overheats to the red line in the first mile of driving. I think I have all the air out but not sure. It will idle in the driveway for hours and the needle stays right in the middle. Any thoughts?

3. the throttle is very touchy. Anyone else experience this? Maybe it had to do with the engine moving?

4. I think some of the rear suspension is hitting the wheel wells. I will need to trim.

Other than that it went ok. Any help on these issues would be appreciated.
Thanks Mike
1.Groupe n mounts, stock mounts suck, also lower control arm urethane bushings help.

2. Do Waynes coolant Mod, it is near impossible to burp setup if you don't.
You have to burp it with yellow funnel ...period, tow your car to open house early and bring some coolant, I can help you burp it. It's not the fans, my car would not overheat even without fans. The cooling system is more efficient than a wrx. You got air it there.

3 Throttles is very touchy, that is how it is, likes to stay moving

4. I trimed them a lot to clear

[michael everson]

Anyone have a link to waynes coolant mod?
Mike

[Hindsight]

No but is easy to explain. On the top of the engine there is an aluminum coolant manifold. It's what the upper hose to the radiator connects to. Just behind where the radiator hose outlet goes, on the top side of the metal, drill and tap 1/8" NPT then screw in a 1/8" NPT brass 90 degree barb. Connect heater hose to that and then run that up to the coolant reservoir aka degas tank (will need a brass T fitting so you can tie it to the turbo coolant return hose. The place where you drill and tap is the high point in the system so when you fill coolant, and even when running the engine, air will be pulled up into the reservoir where it will separate from the coolant and stay.

[FFR-ADV]

Hi Mike,
I installed Cusco engine / transmission mounts from Rallysport Direct. They are stiff and also have positive containment since they use bushings with bolts which pass thru them. Steel bolts or frame must yield before the motor can break free.

[Kalstar]

Mike trailer it down to the cookout and Chrs and myself can help you burp the system.

[longislandwrx]

go all out...

http://www.rallysportdirect.com/MSI-MSISUB05-00-003-Solid-Engine-Mounts

42585

the best you can get at the best price.



this forum is awesome because of people willing to help solve problems...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5exvfbnFMUg

bro team!

[Hindsight]

Found it!

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?15739-Coolant-reservoir-How-does-it-bleed-air&p=170165&viewfull=1#post170165

The whole post is informative, but the link above takes you right to Wayne's excellent and generous pictorial. Thanks again Wayne!!

[Scargo]

I have the Cusco mounts and the quality looks good and the price is very good.
You may find that with less engine movement the throttle movements will not be as amplified. Though I haven't had a DBW Subie I know some car throttles are affected by engine movement.

[D Clary]

The stock Subie has torque strut with the same mounts, why would the 818 not need it

[billjr212]

Were you able to find what was hitting when the engine is moving? I actually found that my intercooler was rubbing against the engine cover, so that could be what was bumping for you. I had to bend the driver side bracket down a bit to let it clear.

I think someone else broke off the coolant overflow tank by leaving it in the stock location. It was smacking into the underside of the angled support for the frame. Buy or make a bracket to move the overflow if you haven't done so already.

As a side note, I'm using the Group N mounts.

[Scargo]

The stock Subie has torque strut with the same mounts, why would the 818 not need it

THAT I consider an excellent question! I can't think of a reason why it wouldn't be beneficial. If it is considered good for the front, then why not in a mid-engined application? For the front I believe it helps stabilize and control dive. Would you put it at the front in a mid-engine configuration to have less lift?

[Buzz Skyline]

go all out...

http://www.rallysportdirect.com/MSI-MSISUB05-00-003-Solid-Engine-Mounts



I was thinking about trying them. Do you have them? If so, how's the NVH? Is it reasonable for a mostly street 818?

[Buzz Skyline]

Found it!

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?15739-Coolant-reservoir-How-does-it-bleed-air&p=170165&viewfull=1#post170165

The whole post is informative, but the link above takes you right to Wayne's excellent and generous pictorial. Thanks again Wayne!!

It helps to have everything off the car, like in Wayne's post, but I did it with the motor mounted in place.

[michael everson]

Ok I ordered the mounts. Should be here in a few days. The car is at the alignment shop right now where my Brother works. They are going to vacuum bleed the system and check for leaks. When I explained to him what was happening, the first thing he suggested was a bad head gasket. Lets hope not.
Mike

[longislandwrx]

I think they are fine in a limited use street car, the only time you/I are likely to notice is at idle , especially if you have piston slap when cold you may feel/hear it.

Only other concern is if you have a low header it will drop another cm. so keep that in mind. MSI offers a spacer at an EXTREMELY reasonable price that will raise it back up if it ends up being too low for your taste.


http://www.mooresport.com/indexe.php/chassis/impreza-engine-mounts

here's a few more opinions

http://www.allspeedinnovations.com/collections/asi-motorsports-products/products/asi-asi50301-billet-engine-mounts
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2379785


another (old) thread on mounts

http://thefactoryfiveforum.com/showthread.php?11767-Looking-for-advice-on-engine-mounts/page2

[Scargo]

I would not recommend the solid mounts for a street car. I did not consider them for my R.
In fact it says, "MSI Engine Mounts eliminate ALL movement in the engine mounting. These are recommended for drag and circuit racing. They are not recommended for rally use."
Torque has to go somewhere... Seems there's the potential for this tearing brackets apart, breaking welds, fatiguing metal, snapping axles, etc.

[C.Plavan]

Apples to Oranges maybe, but they are flat boxer motors. In the Porsche racing world, Say "No" to solid mounts. There is a harmonic issue when using solid mount that can mess up a race motor.

[longislandwrx]

I would not recommend the solid mounts for a street car. I did not consider them for my R.
In fact it says, "MSI Engine Mounts eliminate ALL movement in the engine mounting. These are recommended for drag and circuit racing. They are not recommended for rally use."


MSI has updated their site...

Solid engine mounts machined out of billet T6-6061 aluminum, these have been designed for drag, rally and circuit racing. Not recommended for street use.

that being said this is hardly a daily driver, for a limited use vehicle, I think you'll be fine... but to each his own.

[Buzz Skyline]

MSI has updated their site...

Solid engine mounts machined out of billet T6-6061 aluminum, these have been designed for drag, rally and circuit racing. Not recommended for street use.

that being said this is hardly a daily driver, for a limited use vehicle, I think you'll be fine... but to each his own.

I was thinking that I would use them along with some home-made rubber spacers to raise them to stock height.

[Mechie3]

I would be more worried about the solid mounts transmitting vibrations to the frame. F500's use two stroke motors that vibrate a lot. Frame cracks are a very common occurrence due to all of the fatigue from a motor at 8500 rpms.

[508wrx]

Ok I ordered the mounts. Should be here in a few days. The car is at the alignment shop right now where my Brother works. They are going to vacuum bleed the system and check for leaks. When I explained to him what was happening, the first thing he suggested was a bad head gasket. Lets hope not.
Mike

I'm interested to see what your brother has to say.

[xxguitarist]

Ok my maiden voyage wen only OK. I have some questions and concerns.

1. Where can I get better motor mounts? The drivetrain moves a LOT. I can here something hitting the frame when I accelerate. Even at idle when you give it some gas it moves.

2. the car overheats to the red line in the first mile of driving. I think I have all the air out but not sure. It will idle in the driveway for hours and the needle stays right in the middle. Any thoughts?

3. the throttle is very touchy. Anyone else experience this? Maybe it had to do with the engine moving?

4. I think some of the rear suspension is hitting the wheel wells. I will need to trim.

Other than that it went ok. Any help on these issues would be appreciated.
Thanks Mike

Group N for a mostly stock build. We have them on our not-stock build with hoosiers, and it's fine. Little more movement than I might choose.

Suspect you have the bubble at the top of the aluminum manifold. Are the side tubes hot when idling?

Yep, throttle's touchy. High power, light car. Yup.

[Evan78]

42575 I have group n mounts and I added a torque strut to the rear of the transaxleCool. What did you use for the strut? Are the brackets OEM or fabricated?

[D Clary]

The strut is for an o8 chev impala, I made the mounts. I think it sell for about 8 bucks at Orielys. You could probably use the subie one and attach it to the shock brace

[Evan78]

Cool, thanks. I haven't crossed this bridge yet, but I assume we'll use one of these options eventually.

[michael everson]

I installed the Cusco mounts. Not sure I would recommend these for a street car. Very stiff. The car vibrates more now and the engine seems louder. All the banging went away though. One think I didn't expect. The mounts moved my whole drivetrain backwards just enough that I couldn't shift into 2nd, 4th or reverse. The shift block was hitting the back of the body. I just drilled another hole in the shift shaft and moved in.
Mike

[Mitch Wright]

Michael,
Don't know if you noticed the Cusco mounts have the stud offset on the plate, I had rotated mine 180* which moved the engine/trans forward.
If I could read Japanese I bet it mentions that in the instructions.

[Wayne Presley]

Mitch is correct, the mounts are offset about 1/4" so there can be 1/2" difference in mounting of the engines.

[ben1272]

I can see the potential for problems such as these arising from the wide variety of engine tunes, exhaust systems, intercooler setups, etc. But, if one is staying essentially stock and following the build manual closely, is it still likely that one will run into these problems? If so, is FFR working these issues behind the scenes to arrive at solutions? It seems that alot of the problems are ones that FFR should have already run into themselves and (hopefully) solved one way or the other.

It is a good thing that so many are willing to share their experiences and so many more are willing to answer questions. I am glad I am kit #352 and can benefit from all the trail blazers ahead of me! I hope I can help some folk out in the future once I am deeper into my build.

[Wayne Presley]

Ben, I was kit #6, #9 (#1-4 were prototypes #5&#6 were delivered to Erik Treves and myself at the same time), finished a mid 20's kit, set up 818R #1 and am building another 818R right now and the progress from FFR behind the scenes is stellar. There were 40 changes in between #6 and #9 and as many between #9 and the 818R I'm building working on now.

[michael everson]

I have them facing the right way.
Mike