Cost of Painting a Roadster

[R Thomas]

My son and I attended the build school last weekend. Really enjoyed the build, got decent exposure to all elements of the build but had one big surprise. When cost of painting came up the instructor estimated eight to ten thousand as a starting point. I asked about the new Mk4 body and the comments that it required much less prep and they said that was taken into consideration.

While I could see that price for a show quality car it doesn't seem inline to me for a daily driver. Would any of you that have recently had a paint job done or any of the builders that read the forums comment on cost of Daily driver paint job with stripes and how color choice might affect the cost.

[michael everson]

I am currently paying $7-$10,000 here in MA Seems to be the going rate. If you find a decent painter, they are only going to do one kind of paint job. The best of there ability. I don't think they care that its a street car and not a show car.
Mike

[edwardb]

Yea, this was my sticker shock item on my Mk3 build. Kind of expected it on my Mk4. The estimates from the build school are not far off the mark. This is discussed a lot. You can find inside deals for less, or where you do some or all of the work. But in the end there's roughly 150 hours of work in these things. Do the math against even the most reasonable shop rates, and you will see where the numbers come from. I don't know how much opportunity there is for saving on the basic body work. Certainly some savings if you skip the final cut/buff. The stripe is somewhere in the one day labor range. There are differences in cost between colors. Red, my color of choice, happens to be one of the more expensive colors. Metallics cost more than solid. Quality name brand paints cost more than some of the generic shop brands that some places uses. But in the end, it's mainly about the labor. Some have gotten real creative painting it themselves, renting a booth if that's possible, or even having it painted at a local trade school or community college. Some drive them in gel coat for awhile and then paint later when funds allow.

Not that it's any consolation, but ask any of the Coupe, Hot Rod or GTM guys about getting their cars painted. Roadsters are cheap!

[6t8dart]

If you do the prep, you can get someone to spray it for 2-3 grand. Or doing it yourself will cost about $800

[edwardb]

If you do the prep, you can get someone to spray it for 2-3 grand. Or doing it yourself will cost about $800

Two comments: You will need to work very closely with whoever is spraying over your work. Many body shops won't spray over prep they haven't done, or they may do it without any warranty. Just have the discussion up front so no surprises. I assume the $800 noted is for color and clear only? May or may not be possible depending on color and brand/quality you choose. You will have more than that in all the materials required, e.g. body filler, sealers, Slick Sand, shop supplies, etc.

[Jeff Kleiner]

I've prepped and painted a number of them for myself as well as customers and will add 2 comments:

1. The Mk 4 is better than the Mk3 but the difference in prep hours is in the single digits so don't fool yourself into thinking that the cost differential is significant in the grand scheme.

2. You'll spend $1,200-1,500 on materials to do a good base/clear job with Evercoat and PPG products or equivalent.

Feel free to contact me if you want more information on costs.

Jeff

[BEAR-AvHistory]

Mine was quoted at $7500 but I chose a more expensive paint & it was $8,000. Interesting thing is the entire car was painted in the silver stripe color then the red + clear coat was applied over that. Very happy with the way it turned out.

[R Thomas]

Thanks all for the comments still planning budget for the build and I don't believe painting is one of the things I will attempt myself unless its some kind of temporary job. Its easy to look at materials costs and think you could do a lot better, but the tools and space needed to paint are costly not to mention the skill of the painter.

[rickscobra]

I am still having a hard time with the cost people are paying to have a roadster body painted. With talent required to build a FF5 kit, it seems that trimming, filling the seams, and priming for paint, should be with our capabilities. I will be attending the open house next month and hope to get an education from guys that have been there/done that. An actual hourly break down of the process would help me understand hour the dollars add up.

[bbksv]

I don't think it is rocket science. This was my first paint job and first time doing body work. Yes there were some dust nibs and things I would do a little differently and yes it is a lot of work but if you have the capabilities to build the rest of the car you can do the paint and body work. I went with Nason paint and was under 1k for materials (not counting spray equipment) The great thing about basecoat/clearcoat is how easy it is to fix things like dust and dirt nibs. A little cut and buff and it is like glass.

http://i1279.photobucket.com/albums/y532/bbkkssv/Mobile%20Uploads/20150513_131008_zpsy9gjuemt.jpg
http://i1279.photobucket.com/albums/y532/bbkkssv/Mobile%20Uploads/20150513_131021_zps3zfmuma3.jpg

[j.miller]

Couple of things.....I agree with Kleiner 100% $1200 to $1500 in materials alone....Could we do it with cheaper materials "Hell Yes" We could get it down to $600 to $800 but I wouldn't put that stuff on a Dog House. When I go to Huntington Beach and see cars I painted 13 years ago and Ken Pikes "Street Rod Painter" cars from 14-15 years and they still look awesome.....That's why we use the good stuff.....................The DOLLARS ADD UP BECAUSE OF THE HOURS PUT IN. PERIOD!. now, as far as the DIY guys. I am in full support as long as your reason is to say "I DID IT ALL MYSELF" If you call and want my help and you are doing it to save money (after sinking 30k plus in the car) you are not going to get much from me because you are only taking away from the value of your car....gunna turn it into a 20k car.I will say this, Some guys ask "How Hard Could it Be" Perspective! If you bought a brand new 30K car and you got pretty severe hail damage and your insurance wouldn't cover it....Would you say "I can fix that!" and have it come out "just like new".....If you have that ability then go for it.......If you are not particular how your car looks....go for it.......It's just hours.....Pros don't do it as a hobby,,,,it's how we choose to make a living,,,,,we a running a biz and there is overhead just like every other biz.....I understand you are building a toy...a car for fun....in a little deeper then you planned....OH, another perspective.....You are not paying 7-10k for a paint job....you are paying that to"get it painted" There is 3-4K in fitting and bodywork and 3-4k in paint....unless you wreck your car you only pay for the bodywork once. If you take a brand new car that has sandstorm damage to a collision shop for paint it can run 8-12K just for paint...no bodywork.....Myself, I charge 6500 w/stripe and I need to raise my prices .......ahhhhh,,,, I think I'm done....gotta get to work...da bat

[Jeff Kleiner]

...and I need to raise my prices ....da bat

Yes you do, and so do I (seriously). On the basis of a 112% increase in the price of O rings alone our profits are blown and we're going to have to resort to eating government cheese and drinking boxed wine just to get by.

Jeff

[MisterAdam]

i dropped mine off 12 weeks ago and the base coat was sprayed friday, dropped off 3/7/15 and i was told 8-10 weeks having done not a single minute of body work....i know my limitations. we had a pretty harsh winter here in new england so my car was pushed out a bit. the cost is 9500-10000, bright white with lexus indigo blue pearl stripe! remember you get what you pay for so shop around for someone who has done these before.

[BEAR-AvHistory]

I built & painted this from the ground up. Was not a kit but a collection of NOS & reproduction replacement parts. Engine was a Chevy Performance crate 1970 Corvette LT-1. 2X4 intake added for a little Bling

42148
42150
42149

It came out very good IMHO but also convinced me that I will never do a body/paint job again. The price of having the Cobra done by a Pro was in my budget.

[6t8dart]

I painted my 68 Dart with Omni black, Omni Viper Red, and Matrix clear, epoxy primer, and filler primer, I had less than $800 in all the materials with reducers and hardeners, I spent about another $500 on tools including pain guns and desiccant. If I add up all the sandpaper, filler, etc, it was about $1500. I won a lot of awards and got many comments on how straight it was, my only real mistake was that I should have let it sit in the sun after the bodywork, later, after it was painted, blocked and buffed, a few minor imperfections showed through, but nothing serious.

[edwardb]

This is going exactly the way these paint threads always seem to go. The OP is coming to terms with how much body and paint is going to cost, the professionals (build school, Mike, Jeff and Jeff) provide realistic feedback of the time, effort and cost required. Then the comparisons start with home paint jobs, insider deals, etc. In the end, this is the choice the OP has. Shop around and find someone with experience painting these (critical!) and pay how much it really costs, or do a home paint job. Just be warned. The experts take roughly 150 hours. For non-experts, search for threads mainly on the other forum of guys who have done their own body and paint. Many spend months at it. The final results in some cases are very nice. Others they don't have to tell me they painted it in their garage (sorry...). In the end, like so much of these builds, it becomes a personal choice and I realize completely it is a matter of economics.

For me personally, for my sake and my neighbors sake, I could never try a home paint job. Plus I've done just enough of this kind of thing with other hobbies to know I don't have the experience or remotely the skill to paint one of these to the level I want. I have huge respect for the professionals who make this their career and with years of experience do work that as a beginner I couldn't dream of doing. It would be arrogant of me to think otherwise. So for the two I've built, I've had them done by a professional. One a very nice paint job by a body shop guy that does custom work on the side. Turned out great and 4 years later still looks good. When he got done with it, I told him how pleased I was and could I refer him to others. He paused, and then said yes, but wait a little so he can forget just how much work they are. For my Mk4, I had it done at a performance car shop that only does custom work. They had all the latest equipment, booth, and the guy has been doing custom work for years. It's stunning, but it wasn't cheap. In both cases, the body and paint was part of the budget and ultimately I had to decide whether I could afford the whole project. Not just the body and paint.

[6t8dart]

This is going exactly the way these paint threads always seem to go. The OP is coming to terms with how much body and paint is going to cost, the professionals (build school, Mike, Jeff and Jeff) provide realistic feedback of the time, effort and cost required. Then the comparisons start with home paint jobs, insider deals, etc. In the end, this is the choice the OP has. Shop around and find someone with experience painting these (critical!) and pay how much it really costs, or do a home paint job. Just be warned. The experts take roughly 150 hours. For non-experts, search for threads mainly on the other forum of guys who have done their own body and paint. Many spend months at it. The final results in some cases are very nice. Others they don't have to tell me they painted it in their garage (sorry...). In the end, like so much of these builds, it becomes a personal choice and I realize completely it is a matter of economics.

For me personally, for my sake and my neighbors sake, I could never try a home paint job. Plus I've done just enough of this kind of thing with other hobbies to know I don't have the experience or remotely the skill to paint one of these to the level I want. I have huge respect for the professionals who make this their career and with years of experience do work that as a beginner I couldn't dream of doing. It would be arrogant of me to think otherwise. So for the two I've built, I've had them done by a professional. One a very nice paint job by a body shop guy that does custom work on the side. Turned out great and 4 years later still looks good. When he got done with it, I told him how pleased I was and could I refer him to others. He paused, and then said yes, but wait a little so he can forget just how much work they are. For my Mk4, I had it done at a performance car shop that only does custom work. They had all the latest equipment, booth, and the guy has been doing custom work for years. It's stunning, but it wasn't cheap. In both cases, the body and paint was part of the budget and ultimately I had to decide whether I could afford the whole project. Not just the body and paint.

I will admit that I spent almost a year learning, redoing, and fine tuning the body work, more likely I spent 300 hours, I am not a pro, but I took the time to try, experiment, learn, build a paint booth in my garage with filtration....if you want your car painted in a short time, doing it at home is NOT the way to go...but I am a perfectionist on my work, so I would rather take two years than let someone I don't know touch my baby. Ok, ok, I have control issues, just ask my wife. Painting at home is NOT for everyone. But it is an option to some.

[R Thomas]

Seemed like I've touched a few nerves with this post. First I did not mean to imply anyone was getting overpaid for their work. My Dad was a journeyman mechanic and I spent many hours in the garage with him. I have a great deal of respect for anyone that has the skills needed to paint or assemble or maintain these vehicles. Its just that I'm older and remember the days when $3500 bought a complete car i.e. 68 Roadrunner anyone. Secondly this is a hobby car I want to build it myself but not sure paint is part of that equation but at least in this house 8 to 10K is a big expenditure.

If you can afford more good for you. If I had a big budget and just wanted to drive a Cobra Kit. I would call Gordon Levy and say this is what I want these are my colors when can I pick it up. But for me its the build that brings back memories of learning in the garage and extends to spending time there with my son. I have trouble justifying spending more than the cost of a new Mustang GT on a garage toy.

When you read these posts try to look for the positive aspects. Its not an insult to ask if paint really costs that much its just a surprise to me. Cars are amazing devices made up of hundreds of parts all connected together with a few bolts and building one for me is an appreciation of the engineering that went into it. So sorry if implied any painters were out of line with the costs I clearly do not feel that way I have great respect for all the automotive professionals out there.

[j.miller]

SO! I read my own post and see where I sounded defensive.....I'm not, I was just talkin yada, yada, yada. Once the bodywork is done......paint is paint. If you can get the car fit , body work and at least 1st prime done by someone with the ability then you can wheel your buck to MACCO or ONE DAY or wherever and get it sprayed.....kinda how we do the Challenge Cars. You can go to a local automotive paint supplier and ask if there are any body guys working from there house and if they are "stand up guys" . Many times guys leave cards at the supplier. Much easier to find a bodyman then a painter......but you might find both!!

[6t8dart]

Another low cost option, talk to a local paint supplier. English Color in DFW has a discount paint section, either stuff they mixed wrong, or that someone never picked up. They also can tell you if there are any spray booth rentals in your area, maybe you can find a good painter doing work on the side too. There really are a million options out there for paint.

[edwardb]

I too just re-read my own post, and realized I may have came on a little too strong. Body and paint is like other aspects of these builds. You can pay $1-$2K or whatever for a salvage engine, $5-$6K for a crate motor, or $10-12K (and much more) for a custom build. All will serve their intended purpose. It just depends on what you want, how much you're willing to spend, etc. I'm not sure how much past cars or current DD's cost fit into the equation any more than comparing the price of my first house to where I live now. But I understand the point. Every build has a budget, so there are choices to be made. Factory Five has a great value proposition mainly because of the sweat equity you can bring to the build. Hopefully, if nothing else, this thread explains what some of the options are for body and paint.

[PaulW]

As stated before it is all personal choice. Foe me there are two things I will not do myself. I will always have my engine built by a professional. I do not have the tools or the confidence to do it myself even given that I just finished rebuilding my toploader. The second is the bodywork and paint. I spent at least 150 hours on my first Roadster doing bodywork figuring I would save a little. The painter said that I had in reality saved him about 10 hours and would have saved just as much by only knocking off the mold lines. This time it goes to someone that I know and who knows what they are doing.

I will break out a welder and try to fabricate almost any part. However having said all of that I do admire those that tackle it themselves.

[NukeMMC]

Seemed like I've touched a few nerves with this post. First I did not mean to imply anyone was getting overpaid for their work. My Dad was a journeyman mechanic and I spent many hours in the garage with him. I have a great deal of respect for anyone that has the skills needed to paint or assemble or maintain these vehicles. Its just that I'm older and remember the days when $3500 bought a complete car i.e. 68 Roadrunner anyone. Secondly this is a hobby car I want to build it myself but not sure paint is part of that equation but at least in this house 8 to 10K is a big expenditure.

If you can afford more good for you. If I had a big budget and just wanted to drive a Cobra Kit. I would call Gordon Levy and say this is what I want these are my colors when can I pick it up. But for me its the build that brings back memories of learning in the garage and extends to spending time there with my son. I have trouble justifying spending more than the cost of a new Mustang GT on a garage toy.

When you read these posts try to look for the positive aspects. Its not an insult to ask if paint really costs that much its just a surprise to me. Cars are amazing devices made up of hundreds of parts all connected together with a few bolts and building one for me is an appreciation of the engineering that went into it. So sorry if implied any painters were out of line with the costs I clearly do not feel that way I have great respect for all the automotive professionals out there.

I don't think you hit any nerves with any of the guys who do this for a living. They have seen questions like this a hundred times ... each year. The sticker shock is a PITA, but we amateurs don't often realize the man-hours required to get these cars painted, much less good fitting body panels.

I ground my parting lines and did some roughing over them with Rage Gold. I trimmed and rolled my fender edges, trimmed and fit my vent openings and had Mark Dougherty and his son Bren here teaching/helping me rough in panel fits and trimming. I cut the hood scoop opening and rolled its edges also. Even with all that done, my painter spent 100 hours and $1300 in materials (they use Matrix paints). Someone with more than a couple of these under their belts would have been more efficient on the hours, but I doubt by more than about 10%.

In all, I spent $6300 on a single color, no stripe paint job that has a couple little flaws (a bug divit and a sag line) and a couple edges that were done poorly, but they will be fixing them. The kicker was, I got it back 5 weeks after I dropped it off.

Universal Rule of Thumb - GOOD - FAST - CHEAP. You will only get 2 of the 3.

[Gumball]

Not much I can add to the comments above, but I will give you some encouragement. If you have a place to work where the dust won't cause problems and some interest in being able to say you did as much of the build yourself as possible, you can do the bodywork and have a nice end-product. I never did bodywork and did it myself - with the help of some very talented people on this site - and then helped a friend spray the color at his bodyshop. He and his employees did the final block sanding just to make sure all my work was flat, then sprayed it with the epoxy sealer, color, and clear. I was even able to spray a little of the color myself, just to be able to say I helped paint it! I don't remember the exact amount, but I was into the bodywork for somewhere between $1,000 and $1,500 in materials and new tools. You should be able to have someone take it from that stage and do the final work for under $5k. Still, not cheap, and given the amount of time and effort spent on bodywork, not really a "savings."

Best of luck on your budgeting, build plan, and project!

[fordboy]

I gotta think that if paint was something you did early on in the build you'd still be in that funk where cash kinda flows like water and the cash would come out for paint cause you're building the coolest thing on 4 wheels. Even on a basic build...small block Ford, T-5 trans, 8.8 rear the money that goes out on extras.... Foot box fans, radiator shrouds door panels hydraulic shocks for trunk Rays VW steering hub to get cancelling signals etc etc etc...not too mention the upgrades from Factory Five direct(I think I went for about $5k even on the half price sale)... Just saying that by the time you get to paint, the rose color glasses have come off and your looking at dollars and cents a little closer. I'm a firm believer in you get what you pay for... you just dont want to pay more than you should. Hope you find someone that you are comfortable dealing with and you are getting what you paid for.

[skullandbones]

I gotta think that if paint was something you did early on in the build you'd still be in that funk where cash kinda flows like water and the cash would come out for paint cause you're building the coolest thing on 4 wheels. Even on a basic build...small block Ford, T-5 trans, 8.8 rear the money that goes out on extras.... Foot box fans, radiator shrouds door panels hydraulic shocks for trunk Rays VW steering hub to get cancelling signals etc etc etc...not too mention the upgrades from Factory Five direct(I think I went for about $5k even on the half price sale)... Just saying that by the time you get to paint, the rose color glasses have come off and your looking at dollars and cents a little closer. I'm a firm believer in you get what you pay for... you just dont want to pay more than you should. Hope you find someone that you are comfortable dealing with and you are getting what you paid for.

That's a good point. If you can come to terms with the timing of the paint/bodywork cost from the beginning (maybe allocate the funds up front or begin saving for it specifically) then half the battle would be won. Some guys have done a cost sheet and look at it often (good idea). That will save the sticker shock after you have already sunk 25 to 30K into the project. Personally, I have chosen to do the bodywork and paint.

R Thomas: I think the most important thing about this is to get a reliable "stand up" guy as one put it. The cost is going to be there no matter what. The variables are level of quality and the logistics of the job (time and other factors). I would contract someone with specific experience not just a Corvette guy but one who has done several of these projects. I actually had several quotes done locally and found myself walking out with a very uneasy feeling about leaving my roadster with any of them. If you get that feeling when you interview the prospective painter: walk away! Too bad there aren't Da Bats all over the place. It would make the decision much easier.

Good luck,

WEK.

[Avalanche325]

$8000+ for a paint job!! I think it is plenty fair to ask "what is up with that?" and this is the perfect place to ask.

I think what the sticker shock is all about, is that we hear about $3000 or $4000 paint jobs all the time. I would imagine that you could get a car RESPRAYED at daily driver quality for that, if there was no real body work involved. Just a scuff and shoot. So, when you ask about a roadster, and it is $8000 - $10,000 it is a shock.

I just painted a couple weeks ago and am wet sanding now.

Taking a raw body up to the point of being ready for paint is seriously labor intensive. That is where a lot of your money will go. Painting is quick, so not where the real labor charges are. But, the materials are expensive. My Base (PPG black and silver for stripes), sealer, and clear was just over $900.00! (the good stuff, but OUCH!) Add Slick Sand, HSRF ($99 / QT!!!), 2K primer, tape (well over $100), masking paper, masking plastic, cleaners (PPG water based, anti static prep wipe is $50 / gallon), lint free rags, tack cloths, filters for your gun, sand paper, etc. and I was over $1500 for materials. Then if you are a DIY guy, like me. Add a compressor ( a decent one), air lines, paint gun (mid range), sanding blocks, filter/dryer, and a respirator or better yet a Hobby-Air system, and the supplies to make a paint booth, I am in the $4500 range all up. I did it because it is something I have always wanted to do. If I wanted to save money, I would have been better to go get a job at minimum wage and save that to pay a pro to paint my car. It would have taken me fewer hours. At least the way I did it.


As skullandbones said, you want someone that knows Cobras. Would your painter know that you need to cut part of the fender lips off? One guys painter didn't adjust the factory cutouts, which are just rough cuts and not at final size, and painted the car! How do you recover from that?

I would not think about doing a temporary paint job. Who knows what issues that will cause on the real paint job and if you didn't do the proper body work, it is going to have to come off. Just fit the panel gaps, don't touch the seams (parting lines really), and drive in gel coat until you are ready. You will still get more attention than you can imagine.

[BEAR-AvHistory]

Agree the money is in prep labor & materials. Spraying the car is the quick part, not counting the labor between coats & after the paint is laid down.

[Mesa Mike]

I believe that if you budget the paint and body work from the beginning you won't have "sticker shock" when it comes to having the job completed. Mine was painted by Streetrod Painter (Ken Pike) in 2001 for $4000. Ken's prices are higher now, along with everything else. He lays down a great paint job. I have talked to JM about his prices (as he states, $6500) and I think they are very reasonable. If you attend a big show like Huntington Beach you will see both Ken's and Jeff's cars. They are terrific looking paint jobs and fairly priced. Back in the early days of painting FFR's 6 guys from Chicago shipped their cars altogether to Ken's for paint. Who ever or how ever you get to paint your project remember; your car will be judged by the public first by the paint job. Good luck.

[Gumball]

Mike makes a good point - when we finished painting my body at my friend's shop, he said "too bad that after all your hard work, I'm going to get all the credit just because it's smooth and shiny."

[rickscobra]

Let me back up a tad and ask some basic questions in terms of the variables in body parts as received from FF5. Given all the body parts are made in molds, I would think that almost all of body work required should be identical. The doors for example should all fit the same, and the amount of flatness should be the same. What am I missing, when I read that some fit better than ever. I am referring only to the latest Mk 4 roadster.

rickinmaine

[bansheekev]

The doors for example should all fit the same, and the amount of flatness should be the same

Jeff Miller did the body work and paint on mine and both doors were short and needed to be stretched. Each MKIV should fit the same but a buildup in tolerances dictates that although they are in the ballpark they each need massaging.

Just my $.02

Kevin

[Jeff Kleiner]

I've been seeing a downhill slide with the Mk4 bodies. I get cars from customers that range from just a few months old to 3 or more years and have found that the more recent ones are not as clean and tight as the earlier ones. I just had one (about 2 years old) that looked like it had chicken pox; the gelcoat was full of craters across the nose, fender tops and rear cowl. It's just something you deal with. In regards to the fit and finish of the moving panels there is one thing that is consistent... they all need work and it is usually the same work---the lower front of the driver's door, the sunken in area of the body where it meets the upper roll of the doors on both sides, the incorrect contour of the door at the upper rear where it meets the body opening, the ripples along the edges of the hood and trunk lid and let's not even mention the door to cowl intersection. On second thought let's do... Here's how an "as delivered" one looks after adjusting it to match as closely as possible. You can see how the top of the door and cowl don't match nor does the contour on the inside or along the body:

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj43/jkleiner/Steve%20J/100_4825.jpg

And here are a couple of them after I've finished:

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj43/jkleiner/RyanW/100_4543.jpg

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj43/jkleiner/Steve%20J/100_5139.jpg

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj43/jkleiner/RyanW/100_4546.jpg

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj43/jkleiner/Steve%20J/100_5141.jpg

To me correcting these recurring problem areas is the make or break of the job. The doors especially are one of my pet peeves and checking to see if they were addressed is first thing I see when looking at these cars. Thing is you can't fix 'em without putting in the time and we all know about that "time is money" thing. You could leave them as-is and as my friend Miller said many do for a Challenge or track car and I agree with that philosophy but when it comes to a nice street car it would make me kind of sick to have $25K or more in the rest of the build and then cheap out or shortcut on body & paint in the home stretch.

All the best,
Jeff

[Mesa Mike]

In the early days there was much more body work required than today. The MKI was notorious for have "sunken cheeks", the area behind the shark fins. I can't speak for the painters here but I doubt that any two are exactly alike when it comes to the body work required. The doors have always been in need of lots of body work to square and even them out. I believe some of the painters actually fiberglass over the door seams and then cut them to be even. Right guys???

[j.miller]

As long as they are fiberglass they will all be a little bit different....reason being #1 air temp #2 human hand lay-up......How fast you lay up, how much resin, air temp.....everything shrinks, pulls, tightens at different rates....on a hot day with a fast cure things get sucked in pretty hard....winter day things might move a lot slower, maybe even still curing after parts come out of the mold...all close but different...da Bat

[fordboy]

So the front lower lower part of the driver side needs more than 1/4" of filler?? We got the doors as close as we could, washers here and there to kick the bottom out... but I just have a hard time thinking thats gotta be built up that much... wont that material crack or shrink or something ?

[rickscobra]

You guys did a fantastic job of answering the questions that a lot of folks have been asking. This is in no way an attack on the guys at FFR. I just wanted to her the real world response. The photos were a giant help, clearly illustrating the problem areas. In terms of the gradual degradation of the Mk 4 bodies seems like an area FFR should be able to address. I will be attending the FFR Open House in a couple of weeks, where I will politely ask the same question. I am on the cusp of ordering my Roadster and this painting thing has been bugging the heck out of me. After just completing the body work and paint on a Spitfire project, I will spend the bucks and have a pro do my roadster.

[j.miller]

ford boy.driver side door,front lower. is always a bit of work ....try this, Of the 4 studs on the back of the door...put a washer on the bottom front stud and bolt it to the hinge .Most times it takes a little more then half of the difference out. For the rest, you can put a rubber bumper in the jamb just below the hinge and trim it so that when the door closes it contacts the bumper and moves the body even with the door......also you need to pull the DS bottom (at the rear) out an inch before you attach the body...da bat

[edwardb]

You guys did a fantastic job of answering the questions that a lot of folks have been asking. This is in no way an attack on the guys at FFR. I just wanted to her the real world response. The photos were a giant help, clearly illustrating the problem areas. In terms of the gradual degradation of the Mk 4 bodies seems like an area FFR should be able to address. I will be attending the FFR Open House in a couple of weeks, where I will politely ask the same question. I am on the cusp of ordering my Roadster and this painting thing has been bugging the heck out of me. After just completing the body work and paint on a Spitfire project, I will spend the bucks and have a pro do my roadster.

I'm not trying to necessarily defend FFR on this, but couple of comments to put into perspective. The quality of the fiberglass bodies on these cars has been a subject of much discussion since the Mk1's were first released. Improvements were made to each version, and the Mk4 with much fanfare given the new molds, more authentic shape, etc. My personal experience is with a Mk3 and a Mk4. I can say there is a huge difference in the quality between the two. I won't go into details about what it took to make the Mk3 acceptable, but it was a lot of work. And I've seen some of the stories about the earlier Mk's. Most of what we did on the Mk3 wasn't necessary on the Mk4. That and I love the appearance of the Mk4. I had both in my garage at the same time so could compare them side-by-side. Big difference. My Mk4 was a pretty early one (#7750) and I'm sorry to hear the later ones aren't as good. If Jeff Kleiner says it, I believe it. The problems he's citing sound like workmanship and mold maintenance issues, and I think they're fair questions to ask FFR. While it hasn't happened to me, I've seen multiple examples where guys weren't happy with a glass part they received, and FFR worked with them to resolve it. So keep that in mind as well. But honestly, while not desirable, the heavy lifting on getting a fiberglass body prepped and painted is going to be in the 150 hour range even without these issues. It's just the nature of the beast. Ask any Corvette owner. Glass by its nature doesn't come out of the molds like a metal stamping used in DD's. Plus we are typically finishing these to a much higher level.

[Jeff Kleiner]

...driver side door,front lower. is always a bit of work ....you can put a rubber bumper in the jamb just below the hinge and trim it so that when the door closes it contacts the bumper and moves the body even with the door......da bat

You swore me to secrecy on that one a long time ago and made me promise on the sacred secret handshake that we'd quit giving away all the tricks so here I am just reading and was gonna' keep quiet. Next thing I know THERE YOU ARE jumping in spilling your guts all over the interwebs. I see how you are (seriously, how you are is very helpful---thanks for everything Buddy :)).

BTW, Kudos to you for telling Hodgkins that the O rings are an $85 option ;)

Jeff

[Jeff Kleiner]

Edwardb,
The main thing I'm seeing with the later bodies is panel alignment (that's what I meant when I said "tighter" in the earlier comment). The earliest couple that I did were spot on but as time goes on they are becoming less so and panels are not meeting as well. Miller has certainly seen LOTS more than I have so maybe he'll comment whether he has observed the same trend---could be that it's just been my luck of the draw but it has followed manufacturing dates.

Jeff

[j.miller]

JK, I know what you're sayin cause from time to time we get one that seams like it came from different mold....but it didn't, just the way things are. David's car is one of the MK4 specials so it's ,what? 5 years old?....and I have one that's 4 months old....they look like they could have been made the same week.....oh! I swore you to secrecy (not me)! All bets were of when you went all "Captain O Ring" and left me block sanding in the corner............ Go ahead, say it, you know you want to......No toon can resist the o'l "Shave and a haircut"

[David Hodgkins]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ds6w7SkHyw

[32J]

Hi All. I did basic bodywork and paint myself. I did not go as far as to body fill the exterior of the door panels to be flush with the body. I wasn't confident that I could get the body to line up exactly the same. I spent a total of $800 Canadian on the materials, knowing that eventually I would take it in to have a professional do it right. Here's what I did:

FIBERGLASS WITH GELCOAT
RUBBERIZED UNDERCOATING
FILL: EVERCOAT RAGE ULTRA POLYESTER
FINE: USC ICING POLYESTER
3 COATS EVERCOAT G2 FEATHER FILL GREY
3 COATS PRO-FORM 2K URETHANE PRIMER SURFACER
2 COATS PPG OMNI PRIMER SEALER MP897 GREY
6 COATS VOLVO SAVILE GREY METALLIC 492 PPG OMNI MBPX-B-04 BASE (AND 3 COATS ON INNER DOOR, TRUNK LID, AND HOOD)
6 COATS PPG OMNI MC262 CLEAR
PROGRESSIVE BLOCKING AND WET SANDING
MEGUIARS COMPOUND 105, POLISH 205
MEGUIARS WAX 26

My question for the group is what would be range of prices (either US $ or CAN $) to have a shop: (1) do final fill and set gaps, (2) sand and prep or re-primer, and (3) paint and clear new paint scheme? I'm planning on Daytona stripes.

Why am I asking? Because prices here in northern Alberta are astronomical. I want to know if it would be worth it to trailer it to somewhere else in Canada or even cross-border to have it done.

Thanks,

32J

[Rian_Colorado]

In my research, you're looking at something in the 12-17K range (USD) to have someone with experience with these do it. Just FYI, there are many that won't touch it after you have done as much work to it as you have. Also, having done that much won't lower the price from most of their full body and paint numbers.

RR

[Fixit]

Yes, the OP has gotten good intel on the bodywork & paint. Mr. Kleiner did my car about 5 years ago, and it fell into that range... and in 2020 dollars it was on the higher end of the scale because I chose a stupid expensive base color.

Some responders have (correctly) stated "I did it myself". And I have seen some beautiful work done by DIY'rs (and not just FFR cars).
In my case body & paintwork is not in my skill-set, nor are the tools in my toolbox. I'm sure I learn the procedures, could do the work, and eventually get good results (notice "good", not great, not OH WOW, good...).

The toolkit is another story.
Potential expenses (and not just $$$, your time as well: Cost for building a buck/stand for the body and stands for hinged things. Getting my air system in the shop "paint equipment ready". Partitioning off a "Dirty Room" for the 27lbs. of DUST during bodywork. Cost of a decent DA sander, blocks & pads, sandpaper, etc.. Cleaning up 25.9lbs. of dust that magically found it's way out into the shop and future paint booth. Partitioning off a spray-booth area and building some sort of filtration system. Cost of a decent spray-gun, respirator, other PPE.

All of this just told me "Have it done by a Pro"... I would LOVE to be able to claim I did every single thing on the build of my car, but I know my limitations.
The other aspect of this is 95% of the people who will see your car aren't gonna give a rat's-azz about the powder-coated panels, "Mil-Spec" doodads, custom carved billet aluminum whatchmacallits... They are going to comment on what it looks like. On closer inspection the 5% gear-heads will notice the build quality and want to chat, the other 95% are still in "Look at that... I love that color... etc."

[Blitzboy54]

The other aspect of this is 95% of the people who will see your car aren't gonna give a rat's-azz about the powder-coated panels, "Mil-Spec" doodads, custom carved billet aluminum whatchmacallits... They are going to comment on what it looks like. On closer inspection the 5% gear-heads will notice the build quality and want to chat, the other 95% are still in "Look at that... I love that color... etc."

Truer words have never been spoken. I have now seen near 100 examples of a superior build re selling for significanly less money than one that just looks cool. Paint is 90% of that calculus

[32J]

That's one of the reasons why I didn't go overboard when I did it myself for CA$800. I knew a proper shop would be starting from scratch pretty much.

[Jim Wehr]

My Mk2 was done over 20 years ago by NC Painter (gone now). It still looks really, really, good and I can only find a few minor imperfections in the bodywork, all these years later. Unless you want to say that you did it all by yourself, go with a Pro who has done MANY of these cars before. Experience matters!

[MaxVmo]

According to an inflation calculator on a .gov website I found, a paint job for $7500 in the year 2000 is the equivalent of a $14K paint job in 2025.

[gbranham]

I did all the bodywork on my first, and had a friend come shoot base and clear in my garage, then I did all the cut and buff. It was a ridiculously tedious project, but it turned out great. I had zero bodywork experience. On my 2nd, Kleiner is going to do it all for me. Based on his rough estimate of cost, it's a no-brainer to have him do all the work.

Greg

[Jeff Kleiner]

According to an inflation calculator on a .gov website I found, a paint job for $7500 in the year 2000 is the equivalent of a $14K paint job in 2025.

That sounds about right. $14K is a little on the high end but not too far off…at least in my shop. Material prices have skyrocketed in the last 5 years (what a surprise :rolleyes:) but you can bring a roadster in 2-3 grand under that if you chose a moderately priced sub $1,000/gallon color or go beyond if you go for a 3,500+ per gallon color or get into a 3 stage/tricoat.

Jeff

[OB6]

That sounds about right. $14K is a little on the high end but not too far off…at least in my shop. Material prices have skyrocketed in the last 5 years (what a surprise :rolleyes:) but you can bring a roadster in 2-3 grand under that if you chose a moderately priced sub $1,000/gallon color or go beyond if you go for a 3,500+ per gallon color or get into a 3 stage/tricoat.

Jeff

This makes me realize that the colors I have in mind may actually be very expensive. How do you determine which colors are moderately priced?

[rich grsc]

Jeff, an interesting subject, paint prices:(.. The new color I picked has quite a lot of pearl in it so I thought it might be a high priced paint. The paint shop where I get my test spray cans mixed said it was just over $500 a gallon. That said I didn't ask which line of paint it was.
By the way for everyone looking to judge your paint colors---find a shop that will mix your color and put it in an aerosol can, an amazing way to judge if you like it, about $28 a can

[Mike.Bray]

By the way for everyone looking to judge your paint colors---find a shop that will mix your color and put it in an aerosol can, an amazing way to judge if you like it, about $28 a can

Here's one source. I used to buy some Matador Red for my 68 Camaro. https://touchupdirect.com/

Coast Airbrush is another.

[Jeff Kleiner]

Jeff, an interesting subject, paint prices:(.. The new color I picked has quite a lot of pearl in it so I thought it might be a high priced paint. The paint shop where I get my test spray cans mixed said it was just over $500 a gallon. That said I didn't ask which line of paint it was.
By the way for everyone looking to judge your paint colors---find a shop that will mix your color and put it in an aerosol can, an amazing way to judge if you like it, about $28 a can

Paint line can often make a huge difference in cost Rich. Recent example...just did some samples for my Mk5 and the particular code in PPG's midline (which is pretty good stuff!) runs about $800/gallon. Same code in high end Deltron runs over $1,600. Although they are technically "the same color" in reality they are not and will look different. In addition to improved binders the higher end has richer, more vibrant toners and for the color in question which is heavy on pearl and metallic it has a different cocktail of metallics and pearls with more elements. For an "all over" paint the mid line would still look great until you put it side by side with the high end and then the difference would be noticeable and you could never mix the two on the same car in a repair situation because the panels or blends would not match. Solid, non-metallic colors are less affected however coverage can still be a factor. If the color is somewhat transparent like many silvers or lighter shades it can often take more coats for coverage---if you can cover in 3 coats with a gallon of the 1,600 paint but it takes 6 coats/2 gallons of the 800 paint where is the savings?

Spray cans can work for an A to B comparison but to see the real picture the actual product should be sprayed through the gun and put under 3 coats of clear (which can change the look dramatically). I remember that we did this when I painted your car Rich. Here are some samples of actual product that I did on speed shapes just a couple of weeks ago for an upcoming car:

https://thefactoryfiveforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=213590&d=1746814071

Short of finding your color on a car this is the best way to see what it'll look like in real life.

Jeff

[danmas]

Hey Jeff, the one at the top of your stack is very similar to what I am thinking about. Is that a black cherry variation?

[Jeff Kleiner]

Hey Jeff, the one at the top of your stack is very similar to what I am thinking about. Is that a black cherry variation?

No. I saw your Black Cherry photo and comments in another thread...that is a tricoat process which none of these are. That's a whole other discussion ;)

Jeff

[rich grsc]

Yes Jeff, I totally understand different lines, different prices. I sprayed out 3 different colors on the speed shapes, and I know from talking with you I put several coats of clear on them. I'm going to mail you my choice soon, then I'll now how much blood I have to sell. :eek:
Or if I need to go back to work

[rickster991]

I attended the same class. They mentioned the MK V are supposed to be less work because of the quality of the molding process??? Who knows? Does anyone have a recommendation for someone in western North Carolina?

[rickster991]

By the way a fellow student who is very experienced and does show quality paint jobs said he would charge $25K to do it. So $8K is not so bad... :)

[Blitzboy54]

I attended the same class. They mentioned the MK V are supposed to be less work because of the quality of the molding process??? Who knows? Does anyone have a recommendation for someone in western North Carolina?

Spotlight Customs in Georgia. Awesome work very reasonable price. This was my plan B if I had needed one.

[rickster991]

Thanks!

[MaxVmo]

Got these pics today. Exciting!213793213794213795

[Redstang69]

Got these pics today. Exciting!213793213794213795
What height does that "body buck" put the car at (top of wheel arch)?

[Redstang69]

From the perspective of someone that's currently in the middle of body work and not a pro, I'd say it's worth every penny to pay someone. I knew from the forums what the cost would be from the beginning and it was just something that I decided to tackle to save the money. I know it would take time but being in Ohio our drive time is limited so I have pretty much December - April, which is how long I've been working on it so far. I only get an hour at most in the evenings so progress is slow.
Some mentioned it but I'll reiterate the mess that it makes. I got an RA that hooks to a shop vac and a couple 3M blocks that hook to the vac but there are still a lot of times that it's easier to not use them.
I'd say ask yourself a few things;
1. Could you live with driving in gel coat for a bit while you save to have it done?
2. How quickly do you want the body work and paint done? Even if it took you a year to do it yourself, in the grand scheme of how long it takes to build it and how long you'll have it a year is a short amount of time.
I will say I'm not painting mine. My painter agreed that I get the body work 90% there and he'd prime, block and finish it out and paint. I'm expecting $3,000 for his work including paint.

[MaxVmo]

What height does that "body buck" put the car at (top of wheel arch)?


This is the painter’s setup and I’ve only walked around the shop twice so I couldn’t tell you. That being said, they have a Facebook page with painting video clips that could give you an idea https://m.facebook.com/streetrodpainter/

[JMD]

Got these pics today. Exciting!213793213794213795

Looks great! Is that Viking Blue or some other custom color? That's one of my favorite blues, although I do think I'm going to go in a slightly different direction...

[MaxVmo]

Looks great! Is that Viking Blue or some other custom color? That's one of my favorite blues, although I do think I'm going to go in a slightly different direction...

Yes it is Viking Blue! They also are doing an undercoat.213836213835213834213833