Mitty?

[D2W]

Did anyone go the the Mitty and talk to Jim about the 818?

[D2W]

Really, no one went? That ought to make FFR confident about the project.

[readymix]

Mitty was at Road Atlanta? I'm in Minnesota. It's about 20 hours to get to Atlanta, possibly more depending on weather. If Factory Five's confidence in the project requires people that might be interested to drive to Atlanta to ask questions about it, then the 818 was doomed from the start.

Here's a question, what questions did you ask him when you were there?

[Franze]

Even further from Down under! :o

[D2W]

Mitty was at Road Atlanta? I'm in Minnesota. It's about 20 hours to get to Atlanta, possibly more depending on weather. If Factory Five's confidence in the project requires people that might be interested to drive to Atlanta to ask questions about it, then the 818 was doomed from the start.

Here's a question, what questions did you ask him when you were there?

Only 20 hours? I'm more than 2500 miles away. I thought someone interested in the project, who lives close to Atlanta might take the oportunity to visit with the man behind the design. I know I would if I had the opportunity.

[Wayne Presley]

I went and talked to him about the car. I could tell you what we discussed but then I'd have to....well you know the rest of the story.
:D

[mn_vette]

I went and talked to him about the car. I could tell you what we discussed but then I'd have to....well you know the rest of the story.
:D

I think it's time to commence with the water boarding.

[Cooluser23]

Mitty was at Road Atlanta? I'm in Minnesota. It's about 20 hours to get to Atlanta, possibly more depending on weather. If Factory Five's confidence in the project requires people that might be interested to drive to Atlanta to ask questions about it, then the 818 was doomed from the start.

Here's a question, what questions did you ask him when you were there?

I feel the same way. How about people in California.
I really hope FFR will have a press release about the 818 soon.

[wjfawb0]

I am visiting the forum less and less because no real new information is being released. I'm trying to just go away and come back in a few months when there will be more info. It's kind of like waiting for a blockbuster movie to be released that you really, really want to see, but the ticket price is $15000+ instead of $9.

[D2W]

Having followed Mark Smith's project with the Jetta for the last year and a half, waiting for information is really hard. Mark posted info almost every day, showing the design and building of the car. FFR while being more upfront than usual has given us very little to stay excited about.

Now back to the question, Wayne did you find out anything remotely interesting?

[BrandonDrums]

Having followed Mark Smith's project with the Jetta for the last year and a half, waiting for information is really hard. Mark posted info almost every day, showing the design and building of the car. FFR while being more upfront than usual has given us very little to stay excited about.

Now back to the question, Wayne did you find out anything remotely interesting?

+1, I'm getting bored of this waiting game. All that's happening now is folks arguing about subarus and such like every other forum. This was such a great community getting started and now the buzz is all but gone.

Say something awesome FFR...

[Oppenheimer]

+1, I'm getting bored of this waiting game. All that's happening now is folks arguing about subarus and such like every other forum. This was such a great community getting started and now the buzz is all but gone.

Say something awesome FFR...

I feel the same as you guys, but it occurs to me that it doesn't matter if FFR keeps us excited or not. We're all still gonna show up when its all done and released. It would be nice if they kept us excited, but I don't think its really gonna matter much in the end, the car will be that good.

[crobin4]

+1, I'm getting bored of this waiting game. All that's happening now is folks arguing about subarus and such like every other forum. This was such a great community getting started and now the buzz is all but gone.

Say something awesome FFR...

+1 mostly agree. I think things will improve later as it gets closer to launch and we start helping each other out more.

[818_Fan_15]

Hope not, I just joined today.

I have to say though, the Local Motors design process is much more involved and interactive, than the 818 car. Hopefully that will change.

[PhyrraM]

Hope not, I just joined today.

I have to say though, the Local Motors design process is much more involved and interactive, than the 818 car. Hopefully that will change.

I don't think the 818 is intended to be interactive or, really, involved for that matter. All FFR has done is use the contest as a way of asking for ideas. Nothing more. Folks here have interpreted the existance of the contest to mean we all have a say, when it's simply not true.

Like any product that any company produces, people will decide for themselves if it's worth buying based on it's merits as a completed product. It's human nature to provide opinions and observations when asked and that's mostly what we see here in these forums, even though they have little impact on the eventual success or failure of the product.

[olpro]

I have to agree with that. Besides, the "interactive" process that led to the Rally Fighter just proves that committees can't design a decent automobile.

[D2W]

I have to agree with that. Besides, the "interactive" process that led to the Rally Fighter just proves that committees can't design a decent automobile.

While I agree in principle to what you're saying and I agree that the rally fighter is ugly on the surface, the car underneath is very cool. It all depends on who's running the project. Mark Smith asked for input on the G3F during his entire build, sorted the good from the bad and made many changes to his original design based on committee input. I think in the long run the project while be more successful because of that. Just think about how many people on this site said they would not buy the 818 if it didn't have a top, pretty powerful input.

[PhyrraM]

While I agree in principle to what you're saying and I agree that the rally fighter is ugly on the surface, the car underneath is very cool. It all depends on who's running the project. Mark Smith asked for input on the G3F during his entire build, sorted the good from the bad and made many changes to his original design based on committee input. I think in the long run the project while be more successful because of that. Just think about how many people on this site said they would not buy the 818 if it didn't have a top, pretty powerful input.

The G3F is not out yet and it's success has yet to be determined. The one thing I feel fairly confident in saying is that all the public input on the G3F has likely slowed down it's timetable. I hope FFR proper is strong willed enough to not let that happen to the 818.

While the opinions in the top poll seem pretty powerful, it's been my experience that what people say now, and what they do a year or two from now have little bearing on each other. Especially in forums like these. Of those that now say they will buy an 818, I bet less than 15% actually do. Even myself, who this project is seeming tailor made for, cannot say with 100% certainty I will purchase the first one out. Lives and finances change, among other factors. For example - How many group buys (or custom parts) on car forums never seem to get off the ground (or go badly) because less than 1/3 of the initial ' "I'm so in!" group ' actually put up any cash when the time came?

So, yes, 50%+ say they want a top. But how exactly does that translate to real cash-money buyers in 18 months? The way I see it, there is no way to tell. The same goes for the group who say "I'll buy it no matter what!". 1/3 of them will vaporize when the car is released.

FFR is best off to design the 818 to thier plan, and let the buyers come based on the final products merits, whomever they may be.



Of course, I'm still going to express myself here. I just know better than to get all butt-hurt when it doesn't happen. :cool:

[thebeerbaron]

Huh. PhyrraM says what I'd like to say except more eloquently and more quickly. Glad someone else around here "gets it".

[BrandonDrums]

I wouldn't draw any comparisons to the G3F. I'm even about to unsubscribe from the Smyth Performance page because I get more spam posts from that site than I do from FarmVille.

It's one thing to make a lot of noise but you gotta deliver a product. For me, I'd like a little more noise from FFR right now about this project but As Oppenhemier said, when its done and released we'll have plenty of interest even though things are dull right now. FFR is making a complete car, not a hacked up econo box and the design competition is a great way to crowdsource design and engineering ideas. You can't open the whole process because crowds make lots of noise.

That being said, as an individual involved in the online marketing industry, FFR can only get more buzz at this point, I want a little more noise about what's going on. They are in no risk of over-doing it and having folks unsubscribe.

[thebeerbaron]

Just to play devil's advocate here - what would whet our appetites for 818 news?

I believe the "rollerskate" unveiling is being saved for the June Open House. I expect it will be drivable, but I don't think Jim will be trying to set any performance benchmarks with it.

We'd love to know about parts that are being reused from the donor so we can all second-guess the decision and come up with expensive aftermarket alternative (hey, it's fun!), but I'm not sure how much even Jim knows about what will be reused at this point. Figure they're trying to get a drivable chassis for the Open House. It will have the WRX motor, transmission, and suspension on it, just like they've told us. They'll have solved the shifter issue. But I doubt they're spending time figuring out if/how the stock gauge cluster will fit - once it's measured up, that's just a few tweaks in CAD, not a major issue like suspension angles...

We've already beat the performance question to death (and then some), without a test mule there's no answering that question any better....

They probably haven't even started on the assembly manual, so they can't leak that out...

I was just thinking about the weight of the frame, that'd be a fun number to tear apart here for a while, but it's not going to be a firm number and even when compared to other kits it's going to be pretty meaningless. I bet you even if we knew the weight, our calculations/guesses would still center around 1800lbs...

So yeah, I'd love some news, but I think the next milestone will be seeing the rollerskate, which will be big.

I'll be at the Open House and will put as much as I can on my design/drool/build blog. Good thing I've got the design competition keeping me busy until then (also why I haven't posted to the blog in a while, eep).

[PhyrraM]

Yes, go-cart and component list. Please!

I still stand by what I said months ago...This thing can't fail at the target price and weight. The final product may not appeal to the current 'forum gang', but a new group will most certainly appear to carry it to success if needed.

[thebeerbaron]

Truth be told, we already have the component list:

1 x WRX
lots x beer.

:)

[16g-95gsx]

Truth be told, we already have the component list:

1 x WRX
lots x beer.

:)

I completely agree, except I'm iffy on the WRX :).

[16g-95gsx]

http://willworkforsoup.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/thehomercar.jpg?w=480&h=274

Here's the press release

[riptide motorsport]

The price point has to be maintained at all costs.

[16g-95gsx]

Kit cost or ultimate build cost? I would gladly spent 11000 vs 9900 for the kit if the kit were to include components necessary to not compromise performance. I completely feel that in the hands of the proper builder that an enormous amount can be saved on the "total" build cost, to the point of keeping the kit FAR FAR below 20k total build cost. However, I am a HUGE proponent for build quality, and while things that are added to a kit can be very nice ultimately you can't polish a dog turd (not that I expect this to be one). Id rather see a few extra bucks spent on the kit to make it nicer, or perhaps have "options" added in, than I would see a bare bones mediocre kit. I wish I could have met Dave and Jim to ask about it, in time I'm sure I'll make a trip

[PhyrraM]

I think the kit itself must hold on price, because it is the most expensive component. Every other cost can be amortized over the rest of the build, even the 'donor' because you can go donorless.

From *my* perspective, which may, or may not, be unique - I can say that the hardest part of the whole build is going to be the upfront price of the kit. I can easily afford to spend the 'other' $5000 over 12 months if need be. I also don't mind if that "other" $5000 turns into $8000, because, once again, it is over the duration of the build. I would have a significantly harder time dealing with a jump in kit price to $12,000.

From FFRs perspective, as a business, the easier it is to making it an impulse buy the more they will sell. For the professional assemblers, the lower the price of the kit the more flexability they will have in offering options to thier customers - possibly even keeping a kit in "stock".

It's in this regard that I think kit price must be towed in line. Options are cool, because then you can add them to the 'amortized' list and thier financial impact is significantly lessened.

[riptide motorsport]

PharraM. nailed it.

[D2W]

I also agree that the price point must be maintained for this to be truly successful. Ask any roadster owner how costs after the intial buy can skyrocket. There are also lots of "new" exo cars coming to the market as full rollers for around 12K. While I hope this car has more to it than an exo car I still feel it's a market the 818 will have to compete with.

[D2W]

So, yes, 50%+ say they want a top. But how exactly does that translate to real cash-money buyers in 18 months? The way I see it, there is no way to tell. The same goes for the group who say "I'll buy it no matter what!". 1/3 of them will vaporize when the car is released.


You are absolutely right that everybody that says they want one now is not necessarily going to buy later. Of the 50% that say they won't buy it if it doesn't have a top available I would hazard a guess that you will be lucky to get 1% of them to buy it later. When the first GTM spy photos were published it had a ducktail spoiler on it. Whoever FFR used as their focus group it was pretty much universally hated and they ended up changing the rear end.

[Ks2]

price point is crucial, i am already well into the build on the motor and have been hunting down a transmission, but if the price jumps i will find an alternative vehicle to put the motor and trans into. i know i'm not the only subaru guy with a spare blown motor (or two) lying around, but if the price isnt right that same motor can go into almost any subaru rolling chassis, if the price stays where it is projected to be i wont feel bad spending a few extra thousand for something very sexy and cool instead of a late model sleeper

[mn_vette]

I believe that FFR will hit its initial price point, but they will make alot of things optional like they have with their other kits. Its pretty easy to add $5k worth of options to the FFR kits.