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View Full Version : Advice for O2 Sensor Placement



edwardb
04-01-2015, 09:36 AM
Posted this over on the other forum, but will post here also. Did a lot of searching and reading, but still would like to pose this question. I'm very seriously considering picking up an air/fuel ratio meter to tune my just completed carb'd Mk4. But also to have in my tool collection for future projects. The Mk4 is running well with the Quick Fuel SS-750 out of the box, but I'm positive it could probably be better, and at the very least be more efficient. Finding a local tuner is hit and miss at best, and for a session or two could own my own tester and learn to do it myself. I'm looking at the Innovate LM-2 with an RPM pickup. I'm pretty tech savvy (retired IT guy) so confident I can figure this thing out and get the desired results. Plus I enjoy this kind of stuff.

Based on multiple suggestions, I'm not considering a tail pipe exhaust clamp for the sensor, but will do it right with a welded on bung. My question is placement for the O2 sensor. I've read the instructions, and for this tester seems only two requirements: (1) Upstream from the catalytic converter, which doesn't apply in my case, and (2) Between 10:00 and 2:00 position, and not below the 3:00 or 9:00 position because condensation can form in the exhaust pipe and permanently damage the sensor.

Please provide your thoughts and hopefully real world experience recommending one of these three options. Keep in mind I would only have the sensor in place for testing, and then remove and plug the rest of the time.

Option 1: In either #1 or #2 exhaust header. Advantages: Underhood, pretty easy to do, easily meet the 10:00 to 2:00 position requirement. Disadvantage: Only reading AFR of one cylinder. Not sure how much this matters for a carb situation, because I would expect them all to be similar. Plus this is for test readings, and not actually providing real time feedback to the engine and making adjustments like a full-up EFI install. But still a consideration.

Option 2: Right behind the 4-into-4 collector on the side pipe, on the outside. Advantages: Sampling 4 cylinders, can meet the 10:00 to 2:00 position requirement. Disadvantages: Not real excited (in fact not excited at all) to have the welded bung on the outside of my shiny GAS-N pipes. The sensor and wire would be sticking out to the outside, but this is minor since I would only have it there for testing. Also some questions about how effective the sensor is this far from the engine.

Option 3: Right behind the 4-into-4 collector on the side pipe, on the inside. Advantages: Sampling 4 cylinders, out of site, minimize changing appearance of my side pipes. Disadvantages: Because of the closeness to the body, the best angle I could get would be in the 7:00 to 8:00 range. I understand this would unacceptable for a permanent installation. But for testing only and 99% of the time the bung would have the plug in it, so I'm wondering if the condensation concern is really an issue. It would NOT be in the 6:00 position, which the instructions say is the absolute worst position. Also the question about distance, like option 2.

Probably right now I'm leaning towards option #1, with option #3 a serious consideration. Probably not option #2 unless I could be convinced the others just wouldn't be acceptable.

Thanks in advance for your feedback and experience.

skullandbones
04-01-2015, 10:56 AM
I would go with option 3 even though there is a chance of some condensation (permanent mount). Here in AZ, it's a different world with regard to some problems like condensation. I have mine in the 4 o'clock position in the collector. I also remove the sensors periodically to check for corrosion. Since you are only doing it during testing, the removal and cleanup of the sensor each session should make it work fine regardless of your atmospheric conditions. I would advise you to wait until your pipes are as hot as they will get for data collection so the sensor and gases will not be affected as much by the cold pipes.

Good luck,

WEK.

MPTech
04-01-2015, 11:00 AM
edwardb,
I had the same dilemma when setting up my engine. I'm running a modded '93 with EFI & a chipped ECU.
I installed my O2's like your option #1, ( but it's header pipes #4 & #8 at the back).
That's the route I went and have not experienced any problems, all of these are a compromise solution, unless you go with some kind of 4-into-1 collector before the sidepipes.

Time to have my O2 bungs welded, need some advice (http://www.ffcars.com/forums/17-factory-five-roadsters/296284-time-have-my-o2-bungs-welded-need-some-advice.html)

BIG TIP!!! Measure and double, no triple check where the O2 sensor will be located!
FYI: Kicking myself, should have measured BETTER!! please help (http://www.ffcars.com/forums/17-factory-five-roadsters/299202-kicking-myself-should-have-measured-better-please-help.html)

HTH, MPTech

Wayne Presley
04-01-2015, 07:58 PM
Option 3 with a wideband only.

edwardb
04-01-2015, 08:08 PM
Thanks for the responses! Between this thread and a similar one on the other forum I've clearly been redirected to go with option 3 vs option 1. So thanks for the guidance. That's what I'll be doing. These forums continue to be big help.

Wayne, first thanks also for your response. As I said in my PM, your "Carb 101" instructions will be a key source of info. Sorry if this is a dumb question. I'm learning. I don't completely understand your response. "Option 3" I understand. "With a wideband only" I'm not understanding. Are you saying not to also measure RPM? Or something else?

Wayne Presley
04-01-2015, 08:13 PM
It's too far downstream for a narrow band O2 sensor to read correctly, wide band systems are temperature compensated and work well downstream

AnthonyS
04-01-2015, 11:11 PM
Sad to say but it's thoughts like this that make me think the shorty header to J pipe to side pipe option isn't so terrible. I could turn off the O2 sensors completely when I tune my car, but I'd really like to have them. I'd really like to install two widebands and just leave them there and use them as the narrow bands too and call it a day.

edwardb
04-01-2015, 11:16 PM
It's too far downstream for a narrow band O2 sensor to read correctly, wide band systems are temperature compensated and work well downstream

Got it! Now I understand. Thanks again.